It's not annoying, you're lovely :) "The only thing to do is just keep being patient" ; me watching this because my online teacher hasn't accepted me in online class yet. From 40 minutes ago. "I agree"
My guess is that the animals have far too much space on land and way too little space in the water. There is no pressure to move into the sea. The land has more than enough resources and the sea has a lack. That is my best guess
If you like this them you might like Species: Artificial Life, Real evolution. I haven't tried it myself, but it's the same idea of creating creatures and watching them evolve.
I guess it is because they have no reason to move to the water. The land is bigger and secure, while the water is small and can bring death through suffocation. The only reason they would have to move to water would be a predator who is only active on land.
The Sapling I think is a REMARKABLE evolution simulator game; especially considering it was made by one person, in contrast to other “evolution simulators” made by companies who just make crap like “Cat evolution simulator”. But, what’s always annoyed me about the Sapling, and other speculative evolution projects for the matter, is how it ignores the selection pressures that caused aquatic animals to become terrestrial. All terrestrial organisms, actually descended from freshwater/brackish water ancestors. For example, Amphibians: freshwater dwelling, the Lungfish (the closest relatives of tetrapods): freshwater dwelling, Mudskippers: brackish water dwelling! Even the streptophyte algae, which gave rise to terrestrial embryophyte plants, are freshwater dwelling. And the reason why this trend exists, is because freshwater environments are more challenging. Not only are they non-saline, but (unlike marine environments) temperatures are more drastic, freshwater bodies can dehydrate easily, and if you have terrestrial plants, freshwater bodies can be very anoxic because of algal blooms. All of these factors put selection pressure on aquatic organisms to evolve to cope, which preadapted them for life on land. Cyprinids for example (the group that includes Goldfish and Koi fish) have their mouths connected to their swim bladders. So when conditions are anoxic, they can gulp for air. In fact, tetrapod limbs may have evolved not for walking on land, but rather for moving around roots and the bottom of pools; similar to giant salamanders. The Sapling however, treats the evolution of terrestrial lifestyles as more of a wAcKY cOiNciDEncE. Where an individual just so happens to have a mutation that causes limbs and then they start walking on land; instead of limbs or lungs being selected for. I know this would involve implementing a whole new set of features, and I am not demanding for new freshwater features. It’s a miracle we got this game at all. But it gets real irritating when people portray evolution as though a fish just randomly started walking on land.
Well, if this comment tells me anything, it's that my videos are reaching the appropriate audience! You're absolutely right. It's hard to model evolution at all, let alone get a comprehensive view of the factors that contribute to it (I have no idea if dissolved oxygen level is an actual variable in the water... I would assume not?). Another commenter said that once a creature evolves to breathe on land, it cannot return to breathing water? Which seems odd to me within the context of the game but would at least explain why I couldn't get it to happen. Creatures is sort of my gold standard at the moment for evolution simulators, and it also falls short in that regard. I think the temperature factors you mentioned apply to bodies of water, but most vanilla creatures aren't sensitive enough to temperature for that to even matter, and oxygen is very much considered a binary (If you breathe air and are underwater, you get nothing. If you breathe water and are underwater, you get "air".). Plus, I don't think Creatures distinguishes between salt and fresh water beyond just having some plants/animals survive in one but not the other. I suppose there's so many factors involved that we'll probably never be able to get a "true" evolution simulator, but it would be nice to see such an important evolutionary step be more realistically represented.
@@freylaverse Actually about “terrestrial animals not being able to breathe underwater again”, there is one exception actually. Sea snakes are descendants of terrestrial snakes, and they are probably the most aquatic reptiles on earth. Not only being able to give live birth underwater, whereas crocodiles and sea turtles are limited to laying eggs on land. But they can actually breathe through their skin! Again, this just adds to how un-uniform nature actually is. Thank you for your response!
I have a long and detailed suggestion (probably enough for more than one video): simulate evolution (and also ensure that every species looks like something that could realistically evolve and have plants and alga have more diversity than animals, and also every alga, plant, and animal after the first one should be mutations of a existing one) and have the planet have the most variety of temperatures possible and atleast 1 big island and some smaller islands. start with a single plankton alga species, then add more plankton alga species later by mutating a existing alga and then add the first non plankton alga, and then wait for there to be atleast 20 non plankton alga species before adding the first animal. The first epoch would be the longest, in this epoch the first animal should be simple and aquatic, with simplest eyes and mouth and no pectoral or dorsal fins, then wait for atleast 4 new species to evolve from it, then mutate one of them and give them a more advanced mouth and a pectoral fin. And wait for there to be atleast 20 animal species and 50 alga species before making a mass extinction event that makes there be 5 animal species left (ensure that both simple ancestors and more advanced ones survive this event) and 20 alga species left. Ensure no land plants or animals evolve before the first mass extinction event After that, mutate one fish and give it a carnivorous mouth, then another and give it a filter feeding mouth. Ensure no land species exist at this time yet. Mutate more alga species as well. Then mutate one fish species 5 times and have them fill different niches. Then add the first land plants, keep them as simple as can be, have them be small but bigger than grass and have simplest leaves and no poison or flowers, but no land animals yet. Then the next mass extinction event will happen when there is atleast 30 animal species, 70 alga species, and 30 plant species, make there be only 10 fish species left, 50 alga species left, and 10 plant species left. After that, mutate one fish species atleast 10 times and have it fill multiple niches but leave some to other fishes too. Mutate the alga multiple times aswell as the land plants but keep them relatively simple for now. Then after that finally you can have land animals, but first mutate a existing fish into a land crawling fish that breathe water but can go on land for a short amount of time. Then later mutate one of its descendant species into the first animal: a amphibian, it will lay eggs in water but move and breathe on land and be small. Then mutate the plants more. Make a super successful fish lineage that will survive multiple extinction events. And still dont have any flowers on plants yet. Once there is atleast 10 land animal species, 30 aquatic animal species, 70 alga species, and 70 plant species, make another mass extinction, and have only 1 land animal, 20 aquatic animals, 30 alga species, and 25 plant species left. Then after that, let them diversify but also mutate a few aquatic animals, alga, and plants, and mutate one plant to be a tall tree with tough bark. Mutate one land animal species to have land eggs and have scales like a reptile. Let them diversify for some time, make this the fourth longest epoch. Then the next mass extinction will happen when there is atleast 30 land animal species, 40 aquatic animal species, 80 alga species, and 80 plant species. Have there be only 5 land animals (1 amphibian and 4 reptiles), 15 aquatic animal species, 50 alga species, and 50 plant species left. Then next after that, mutate some animals and make them sorta weird like triassic animals. Then mutate one fish species to multiple species of varying niches again, do the same with one reptile. Have mammals evolve at this time. Then next mutate some more alga and plants, and mutate some into poisonous plants too. Have lots of grass and have grass have the most species of any plant. This will be the second longest epoch. The mass extinction at the end will happen when there is atleast 50 land animal species, 70 aquatic animal species, 110 alga species, and 110 plant species, leaving only 30 land animal species, 50 aquatic animal species, 70 plant species, and 70 alga species left. Next after that, mutate a reptile into multiple species of varying niches. The super successful fish lineage i said earlier will decline in diversity at this time. Then have the first birds evolve but have their diversity be extremely limited at this time. Then also have the first flowering plants evolve. This would be the third longest epoch. Then a mass extinction happens when there is atleast 60 land animal species, 80 aquatic animal species, 130 alga species, and 130 plant species. Have there be only 20 land animal species, 30 aquatic animal species, 70 plant species, and 70 alga species left. Next is the second to last epoch, it is before the modern era. Have mammals be big and rule over one island (and reptiles be small there) but have reptiles rule the rest. Birds diversify but reptiles are still more diverse. Flowering plants outnumber all other land plants in terms of species. Have more niches and adaptations in animals, plants, and alga evolve. Then a mass extinction happens when there is atleast 50 land animals, 60 aquatic animals, 90 plants, and 90 alga. Have only 30 land animal species, 35 aquatic animal species, 50 plant species, and 50 alga species survive. Next is modern era, latest era, you can do whatever you want in it and eras after it as long as if follows the rules i mentioned and as long as reptiles are more diverse than birds, mammals, and amphibians. And in future eras make sure reptiles outlast mammals, birds, and amphibians.
So for a second attempt i would increase the amount of water having a few islands for land seed the water with alge and leave the land barren then make and place a creature which can make short journeys into the water to feed and then run the simulation
Hey Freya, next video, can you add a VOLCANO?! I saw the option briefly as you were creating the world, and I think that a world with a volcano that also has a really long winter would be cool.
I think your problem was the map. Almost all of it is either land, or extremely shallow water. Why evolve to be aquatic when you can just walk into the water?
12:42 ''You have 8 nipples on your face... I love biology.''
I was about to comment that
Epochs is basically like a age system like if 60% species on your planet die it forms a new epoch and shows the creatures that lived in that era.
It's not annoying, you're lovely :)
"The only thing to do is just keep being patient" ; me watching this because my online teacher hasn't accepted me in online class yet. From 40 minutes ago. "I agree"
My guess is that the animals have far too much space on land and way too little space in the water. There is no pressure to move into the sea. The land has more than enough resources and the sea has a lack. That is my best guess
Ya bro I agree, just add some carnivorous animals that are pully land animals and add more food in the water.
Agree, best bet would probably be to make the land smaller
btw once an animal in The Sapling loses the ability to breathe underwater, it cannot regain it.
Oh, that's odd! What about the blowhole? Could a land mammal evolve into a cetacean?
@@freylaverseyes, that can happen in the game
12:44 "you have eight nipples on your face... I love biology 😀"
If you like this them you might like Species: Artificial Life, Real evolution.
I haven't tried it myself, but it's the same idea of creating creatures and watching them evolve.
I have that one!! It has been sitting in my steam library for ages!
@@freylaverse Maybe you could make a video where you give your thoughts on how well these programs portray evolution? It would be interesting.
i have an idea. maybe you could try making an ecosystem and then lanching a meteor at it and see what survives and what evolves to adapt and how
YEAH THATS A GOOD IDEA
There are certain land limbs that can evolve into flippers, and bug mouths are a good option
A new update just dropped lol, terrain changes from disasters, more nests, and more stuff in the planet editor.
Man, guess I'd better start messing with the disasters! :P
@@freylaverse didn’t you just say that you wanted to post at least one times a week😅
@@acacti I also said I was going to be traveling for a couple of weeks! ;P
I guess it is because they have no reason to move to the water. The land is bigger and secure, while the water is small and can bring death through suffocation. The only reason they would have to move to water would be a predator who is only active on land.
The Sapling I think is a REMARKABLE evolution simulator game; especially considering it was made by one person, in contrast to other “evolution simulators” made by companies who just make crap like “Cat evolution simulator”.
But, what’s always annoyed me about the Sapling, and other speculative evolution projects for the matter, is how it ignores the selection pressures that caused aquatic animals to become terrestrial.
All terrestrial organisms, actually descended from freshwater/brackish water ancestors. For example, Amphibians: freshwater dwelling, the Lungfish (the closest relatives of tetrapods): freshwater dwelling, Mudskippers: brackish water dwelling! Even the streptophyte algae, which gave rise to terrestrial embryophyte plants, are freshwater dwelling.
And the reason why this trend exists, is because freshwater environments are more challenging. Not only are they non-saline, but (unlike marine environments) temperatures are more drastic, freshwater bodies can dehydrate easily, and if you have terrestrial plants, freshwater bodies can be very anoxic because of algal blooms.
All of these factors put selection pressure on aquatic organisms to evolve to cope, which preadapted them for life on land. Cyprinids for example (the group that includes Goldfish and Koi fish) have their mouths connected to their swim bladders. So when conditions are anoxic, they can gulp for air.
In fact, tetrapod limbs may have evolved not for walking on land, but rather for moving around roots and the bottom of pools; similar to giant salamanders.
The Sapling however, treats the evolution of terrestrial lifestyles as more of a wAcKY cOiNciDEncE. Where an individual just so happens to have a mutation that causes limbs and then they start walking on land; instead of limbs or lungs being selected for.
I know this would involve implementing a whole new set of features, and I am not demanding for new freshwater features. It’s a miracle we got this game at all. But it gets real irritating when people portray evolution as though a fish just randomly started walking on land.
Well, if this comment tells me anything, it's that my videos are reaching the appropriate audience! You're absolutely right. It's hard to model evolution at all, let alone get a comprehensive view of the factors that contribute to it (I have no idea if dissolved oxygen level is an actual variable in the water... I would assume not?). Another commenter said that once a creature evolves to breathe on land, it cannot return to breathing water? Which seems odd to me within the context of the game but would at least explain why I couldn't get it to happen.
Creatures is sort of my gold standard at the moment for evolution simulators, and it also falls short in that regard. I think the temperature factors you mentioned apply to bodies of water, but most vanilla creatures aren't sensitive enough to temperature for that to even matter, and oxygen is very much considered a binary (If you breathe air and are underwater, you get nothing. If you breathe water and are underwater, you get "air".). Plus, I don't think Creatures distinguishes between salt and fresh water beyond just having some plants/animals survive in one but not the other.
I suppose there's so many factors involved that we'll probably never be able to get a "true" evolution simulator, but it would be nice to see such an important evolutionary step be more realistically represented.
@@freylaverse Actually about “terrestrial animals not being able to breathe underwater again”, there is one exception actually.
Sea snakes are descendants of terrestrial snakes, and they are probably the most aquatic reptiles on earth. Not only being able to give live birth underwater, whereas crocodiles and sea turtles are limited to laying eggs on land. But they can actually breathe through their skin!
Again, this just adds to how un-uniform nature actually is. Thank you for your response!
Omg Grass?! is the word looks so much beautiful now😮
I have a long and detailed suggestion (probably enough for more than one video): simulate evolution (and also ensure that every species looks like something that could realistically evolve and have plants and alga have more diversity than animals, and also every alga, plant, and animal after the first one should be mutations of a existing one) and have the planet have the most variety of temperatures possible and atleast 1 big island and some smaller islands.
start with a single plankton alga species, then add more plankton alga species later by mutating a existing alga and then add the first non plankton alga, and then wait for there to be atleast 20 non plankton alga species before adding the first animal.
The first epoch would be the longest, in this epoch the first animal should be simple and aquatic, with simplest eyes and mouth and no pectoral or dorsal fins, then wait for atleast 4 new species to evolve from it, then mutate one of them and give them a more advanced mouth and a pectoral fin. And wait for there to be atleast 20 animal species and 50 alga species before making a mass extinction event that makes there be 5 animal species left (ensure that both simple ancestors and more advanced ones survive this event) and 20 alga species left. Ensure no land plants or animals evolve before the first mass extinction event
After that, mutate one fish and give it a carnivorous mouth, then another and give it a filter feeding mouth. Ensure no land species exist at this time yet. Mutate more alga species as well. Then mutate one fish species 5 times and have them fill different niches. Then add the first land plants, keep them as simple as can be, have them be small but bigger than grass and have simplest leaves and no poison or flowers, but no land animals yet. Then the next mass extinction event will happen when there is atleast 30 animal species, 70 alga species, and 30 plant species, make there be only 10 fish species left, 50 alga species left, and 10 plant species left.
After that, mutate one fish species atleast 10 times and have it fill multiple niches but leave some to other fishes too. Mutate the alga multiple times aswell as the land plants but keep them relatively simple for now. Then after that finally you can have land animals, but first mutate a existing fish into a land crawling fish that breathe water but can go on land for a short amount of time. Then later mutate one of its descendant species into the first animal: a amphibian, it will lay eggs in water but move and breathe on land and be small. Then mutate the plants more. Make a super successful fish lineage that will survive multiple extinction events. And still dont have any flowers on plants yet. Once there is atleast 10 land animal species, 30 aquatic animal species, 70 alga species, and 70 plant species, make another mass extinction, and have only 1 land animal, 20 aquatic animals, 30 alga species, and 25 plant species left.
Then after that, let them diversify but also mutate a few aquatic animals, alga, and plants, and mutate one plant to be a tall tree with tough bark. Mutate one land animal species to have land eggs and have scales like a reptile. Let them diversify for some time, make this the fourth longest epoch. Then the next mass extinction will happen when there is atleast 30 land animal species, 40 aquatic animal species, 80 alga species, and 80 plant species. Have there be only 5 land animals (1 amphibian and 4 reptiles), 15 aquatic animal species, 50 alga species, and 50 plant species left.
Then next after that, mutate some animals and make them sorta weird like triassic animals. Then mutate one fish species to multiple species of varying niches again, do the same with one reptile. Have mammals evolve at this time. Then next mutate some more alga and plants, and mutate some into poisonous plants too. Have lots of grass and have grass have the most species of any plant. This will be the second longest epoch. The mass extinction at the end will happen when there is atleast 50 land animal species, 70 aquatic animal species, 110 alga species, and 110 plant species, leaving only 30 land animal species, 50 aquatic animal species, 70 plant species, and 70 alga species left.
Next after that, mutate a reptile into multiple species of varying niches. The super successful fish lineage i said earlier will decline in diversity at this time. Then have the first birds evolve but have their diversity be extremely limited at this time. Then also have the first flowering plants evolve. This would be the third longest epoch. Then a mass extinction happens when there is atleast 60 land animal species, 80 aquatic animal species, 130 alga species, and 130 plant species. Have there be only 20 land animal species, 30 aquatic animal species, 70 plant species, and 70 alga species left.
Next is the second to last epoch, it is before the modern era. Have mammals be big and rule over one island (and reptiles be small there) but have reptiles rule the rest. Birds diversify but reptiles are still more diverse. Flowering plants outnumber all other land plants in terms of species. Have more niches and adaptations in animals, plants, and alga evolve. Then a mass extinction happens when there is atleast 50 land animals, 60 aquatic animals, 90 plants, and 90 alga. Have only 30 land animal species, 35 aquatic animal species, 50 plant species, and 50 alga species survive.
Next is modern era, latest era, you can do whatever you want in it and eras after it as long as if follows the rules i mentioned and as long as reptiles are more diverse than birds, mammals, and amphibians. And in future eras make sure reptiles outlast mammals, birds, and amphibians.
So for a second attempt i would increase the amount of water having a few islands for land seed the water with alge and leave the land barren then make and place a creature which can make short journeys into the water to feed and then run the simulation
Thank you! I'll give this a shot! I'd like to see if I can reliably get the creatures to evolve blowholes - that might be the easiest way.
@freylaverse while you dont like changing variables you might have to set up sea levels slowly rising in order to force them out of returning to land
i think choosing mandible mouths may let them be onivores
i must agree
Hey Freya, next video, can you add a VOLCANO?! I saw the option briefly as you were creating the world, and I think that a world with a volcano that also has a really long winter would be cool.
YEEEEAAAAAH
9:44 just saw, and whales mouth that could eat micro algae 😮
Hi
Hi!
@@freylaverse i missed u
Hi.
6:30 mass extinction
You can race level of water
I think your problem was the map.
Almost all of it is either land, or extremely shallow water.
Why evolve to be aquatic when you can just walk into the water?
In the world animals can evolve from breathing air but not from breathing air to breathing water
Its because the algea was to Deep and algea isnt very good for animals