Engineer says several problems with Hard Rock site but one stood out
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- Опубликовано: 23 май 2021
- A key supplier of materials for the Hard Rock Hotel construction project tried to warn the builders they needed more steel supports on the upper floors...
Thank you so much for this reporting it’s so hard to find updates on this story very good reporting
The problem is made worse when concrete is poured on a weak pan deck. The decking sags during concrete placement. In an attempt to make a floor level, contractors will add more concrete in sagging areas putting more weight on areas that can't even support the load that is in the specifications.
No s**t Sherlock... I've poured concrete for decades and one look at the structures ironwork I could see it was overspanned. Someone better be in jail for manslaughter.
They won't. They have money. They'll run it out until the statute of limitations runs out and they can't charge anyone responsible. Got to love the American justice system.
My question is the quote at the end of this video. That jerk says he stands behind their track record of designing projects that meet the engineering standards. Ok if that's the case then why did the building collapse?? It sounds like he's just blowing smoke up our asses so he avoids prison.
Dang. There's a big difference from 16 g to 22 g. Your car's sheet metal is thicker than 22g. Its probably 20g.
Remember, this is New Orleans, the Big Easy. Palms were doubtlessly greased.
It is astonishing to me, a retired Architect, that their building dept. has no structural engineers on staff. I did projects in probably a dozen jurisdictions up & down the Colorado front range, from Fort Collins to Pueblo, and as far west as Grand Junction. I never encountered a bldg.dept. that didn’t have a structural engineer. The head of Denver’s bldg. dept. is (or was, I’ve been out if the loop for awhile) a structural engineer.
I don't know why it takes a study to determine this, I spotted the problem in the news photos right after the collapse. The diagram in the video shows 26' spans, manufacturer catalogs for the heavier gage deck only go out to about 16', well short of 26', and the lighter gage deck that was substituted is about 20% less. 26' is much too far for this material, any engineer exerienced in use of this type of metal deck for floor construction would know this. Yes the drawings should be reviewed by a competent engineer, but the first step is to have the original design done by an engineer that recognizes the proper use of the material. The metal deck supplier should have stopped the project when they saw that it would be impossible to build it using their product. And BTW the metal deck manufacturer does make deeper metal deck products that are completely suitable for the spans involved.
Guy that ain't on the "metal deck supplier" at all, you wanna use that logic then every jackass that injures himself after he buys a totally over the top power tool at Home Depot would have a lawsuit on their hands. Also its not up to that business that sells decking to go verify plans potential clients will use their materials on? It was even stated in the video and you yourself made a point of the spacing in the I-beams or supports that those materials could have been used just by adding more supports
@@jessepierce9046 Companies I've worked for put it in the specifications for the project that the deck manufacturer is responsible for providing deck that will work for the spans required or the contractor is notified to provide additional lines of shoring during construction, so this does put it back on the metal deck supplier. It's not a business that sells decking, it is sold by the manufacturers themselves and the manufacturers have engineering departments that do this. The manufacturer that is referenced in this project is a large manufacturer that certainly does have their own engineering department to do this kind of verification.
This is a note copied and pasted from project specifications for a recent project, listing the requirements for the metal deck supplier: "Indicate where shoring of metal floor decking is required." Granted these are the specifications that we use, the original engineer for this project may have used less stringent specifications.
The city doesn't have a reviewer that can comprehend these designs. The engineer calls the shots...
3:11 - Good for the deck supplier , they were on top of the issue , it's others that failed to head the deck suppliers warnings.
It’s a major problem when local news is doing more research on a project than the ppl in charge of approving this nonsense
We denied responsibility even though its apparent we fuq'd up LMAO
I’m curious about temporary shoring that is typically brought in to provide support as the concrete deck cures. The components of a deck (concrete, reinforcing and metal decking) when cured act together to provide the required support. I can see by the video that this temporary support is in place. Was it spaced as required and for the duration required? The consultant brought in referenced there were a series of errors, is this one?
Seems to me the city is on the hook for this failure, too. No review, no permit.
Not customary to second-guess the engineers? What he's basically saying is, he's just not even keeping his responsibility of making sure the designs are not cutting costs by cutting corners.
Absolutely. What’s the point of the inspections if not to second guess the engineers?
This incident is 100% on the engineer
Did anyone go to jail for this negligence? If not, someone probably should.
I hope those people that perished family sue them good millions of dollars
Because of their negligence
Of course there is money and power involved, including the city and their building codes department. New Orleans officials were trusted but cannot gain it back. Three innocent people lost their lives as a result of their negligence.
So basically, it was collapse now and kill 3 to avoid killing dozens (or even hundreds) later after completion. Good grief.
I dont know a god damned thing about engineering or construction, and my common sense alone can see the glaring issues with this. Wtf
...SHOULD BE CRIMINAL CHARGES ON THE PEOPLE MAKING THE CHANGES...
4:06 you immediately show a picture of the collapsed building that shows there is rebar in the concrete
They should change the name of the project for "Soft Rock"...
So why haven’t they arrested the designers too?
What a death-trap.
My question is the quote at the end of this video. That jerk says he stands behind their track record of designing projects that meet the engineering standards. Ok if that's the case then why did the building collapse?? It sounds like he's just blowing smoke up our asses so he avoids prison.
The structural engineer is fried toast now, he's DONE!
They made fundamental, basic structural omissions.
Every building design is different, and thus full of unique human errors and flaws. What could possibly go wrong?
they were cutting corners in so many locations , they lucky more workers did not die! , you can.see the workers run like rabbits (camera angle as seen from high vantage point) , during the collapse . Even the cantilevered area looks like outriggers extend to far without bracing.
:22 seconds;
"Tens of thousands of pages of documents"
Uh huh...
This right here and the condo in florida are why we need stiffer regulations.
The Florida condo collapse was mainly due to lack of onsite maintenance which uncovered after the collapse, construction building mistakes.
The engineers did design the building correctly to the construction date regulations. Today, there would be some changes to enhance the structural safety. One would be to enhance the upper structural support on the garage deck pillars and the second would be to have separate columns for the main building and the exterior deck. Thus if the exterior deck collapses the buildings structural support column should not be damaged.
Even though I am not an engineer, I can clearly see myself those structural mistakes.... All I see is greed, no concerns whatsoever about human lives.
OMG!!!!!! What a mess of bad engineering .....
Heslip needs to do time
Who's here because of school?
just remember, everything is always built to MINIMUM standards, nothing is ever overbuilt unless it's cosmetic
Lowest bidder doesn't *necessarily* equate to lowest standards. But yeah, the demand for profit definitely plays a part.
yeah I agree. This is always the case!
I have always wondered why not spend little extra on construction to make a structure that is significantly stronger to thus handle any irregular structural issues that may arise. Even if it's the engineering company being selfish and only trying to protect themselves from future mishap lawsuits.
The Millennium Tower that's leaning in New York, same deal cost cutting on the foundations.
@@bitsofgeek True, but there's a physical cost to everything, and the lowest cost can not deliver the highest quality.
Everything everywhere all the time?
The wild west is the big easy.
... I see something more serious. there ... !!!
It's easy to say there was a confluence of errors that contributed to the collapse, but in this case, if the shoring had been properly installed and they let the concrete cure for 7 days between pours, it wouldn't have happened. The design was adequate. It wasn't the cantilever that failed, it was the shoring.
Once the concrete slab is set (dry) there should not be a problem. Especially if metal rebar and mesh were properly used inside the slab (before) the pour.
However, If the weight of the freshly poured concrete and reinforced metal structure could not be fully supported by the new corrugated pan (composite in this case)....welcome to builders hell.
Being "cutting edge" will get you just as killed as being cheap, as far as materials are concerned. Testing and ratings are critical.
the cantilever balconies had no rebar added. I think a crowd on one of those would have caused that to collapse for sure. the deck had a 3 rebar group every 4 feet. looks way under strength
the system of metal deck and concrete has to be designed for both conditions- freshly placed concrete and properly cured concrete. The use of 3" deck on these spans likely does not satisfy either condition.
If the pan wouldn't hold cured concrete (lighter) that's even worse. Sad.
@@crabbinmoose8583 You don't understand how the system works. When the concrete cures it locks together with the metal deck to form a composite system that is stronger than the metal deck alone.
What I'm saying is that if the construction crew was indeed installing on freshly poured panels (un-cured) when the disaster began, then it wouldn't even have mattered regardless of whether the panels were wet or dry. Especially if the the pan couldn't hold the weight of a pour to begin with without bowing.
Cured concrete with rebar should still be able to hold up its own weight even without a pan although the pan must be used to give the final cast panel rigidity (since flat concrete slabs don't hold up to sheer stress as well as vertical castings).
I'm well aware of the need for metal pans to keep the concrete panels from losing strength, developing stress cracks and sagging. But, the composite type material used for this (to save money) was just an accident waiting to happen.
I agree the contractor should have definitely used a more beefy corrugated pan, made from at least 1/8 thick high tensile strength, coated steel along with the proper amount of treated rebar, rather than what the pictures showed.
I know what people are going to call me, but I'm saying it anyway. The owner/builder was Indian, and his son had already been in trouble before (I think actually in jail.) Because people come to our country from places where safety and building codes are not enforced, we need to be especially alert with regard to inspections. You can see what happens in some other countries when there are earthquakes: the buildings pancake. They have no regulations, or else don't observe them. They bring this attitude with them, cutting corners in order to make more money.
A group of sixth graders could build a model out of straws more sound than that building. Concrete needs rebar to reinforce it. Someone cut corners to save a few bucks. And by the way... no Structural Engineer on the project? Thank God the damned thing collapsed when it did. Check out collapses like the 1981 Hyatt Regency Walkway in Kansas City that killed 118. I was there for a conference the week before and it made me uneasy to look up at it. Way too much concrete with invisible support.
.. it looks like really bad engineering mistake ... !!!
This is ssssssssoooooo infuriating. Nothing but greed and woeful nonsense.