Actually there are only 2 types of languages: Those who require too many libraries and frameworks and those who requires minimal external libraries to accomplish basic tasks.
@@nishantraval2740Meh, you can do basic tasks with vanilla JS despite the vast landscape of different frameworks and libraries. This cateogorization is rather pointless, languages with more users will naturally have more libraries developed.
Average developer's day: 8am: wake up 9am: make code 9:01am: break entire application 1:30pm: fix application 1:32pm: break everything again 2:00pm: eat 3:00pm: fix errors 3:05pm: 999 more errors 3:06pm: give up 3:07pm: sleep
@vladloukine2813 9:05 pm: Wake up in cold sweat, realizing how to fix the issue you did earlier today. 9:12pm: Implement fix 9:14pm: Get mad that fix doesn't work 9:15pm: Delete fix 9:16pm: Run code again, suddenly it works. 9:30pm: Go to bed Then the cycle repeats.
Classic programmer joke Situation: There are 14 different standards “What? 14?! That’s crazy! We need to develop one universal standard that covers all use cases!” Situation: There are 15 different standards
@@TeDynefyeah avoid all those pesky modern breaking changes. Just tell your visitors not to use anything newer than IE6. If it doesn't work though you can always use a Flash plug in. 😆
And this is just the technologies that survived. There were Java Applets, Flash was ubiquitous for many years, VBScript in the browser was a competitor to JS years ago, and Silverlight was discontinued as recently as 2019.
FYI: South Korean Government webpages require all government softwares to run specific combos of web frameworks based on ancient versions of Spring Framework (also known as egovframe). jQuery is part of that and is mandatory. So yes, new jQuery code is being written. In 2023!
@@spasm additional large file needs to be downloaded onto the client to for it to work, that's why more and more of its features are slowly becoming native to js/ECMAScript
A teacher once told me: Imagine you have a TV set, two consoles, 5 sound boxes, a box to connect it to the internet, a box for cable TV, a record player, a DVD player and an Alexa connected to it and now you just have a bunch of cables behind the cupboard. YOU have some idea how it all works together, but as soon as someone else touches it... it is over!
Funny when job vacancies are like “Should know Angular, Vue, React and JQuery” and I have to remind the companies in interviews “Why do you have 4 frameworks listed on your job post? A website should only use 1, 2 in very extreme cases.”. I usually never get a call back after that. 😅
It is just so much simpler to start a site with jQuery than to learn a new framework every time. I would also not use jQuery if I could but it works on all modern browsers unlike just pure js.
Why should it. PHP is totally fine in most cases. Just because it's uncool in hipster circles where nobody really works but all just learning new node frameworks all the time which get abandoned a few months after their hype does not mean PHP is actually bad or outdated. Quite the opposite. It's solid, it's fast, it's stable, well maintained, widely supported, but yeah, it's soo uncool .. such lame merch they have! Never would drink my macha latte in a startup meeting while wearing a PHP shirt ...
I miss the days where most webpages were something you could code in notepad with standard html tags. That was before you had 50+ scripts running on one page, 90% of them served ads, and 10% of them did stuff in the background that you probably didn't care about, like checking what kind of browser you're using. Back during the 90s, when this was the case, the only way you got a virus, was by downloading an executable, and nothing downloaded without you knowing about it, especially since download speeds were so slow back then, if something DID download, you'd notice it.
I recently made a website in pure html and css because I realized that was really the only thing I needed for this particular project. Makes my website lightweight too!
You Know more than a decent amount of Frameworker who need to include 1k instructions just to output a button tag. As if HTML is too complex to bring it to life.
You might be able to write over 95% of your client-side in the language that compiles to webassembly but there will pretty much always be the shim of javascript invoking the loader. Unless w3c makes a link attribute that can pull webassembly and ... do the right thing?
when i started self-learning.. i went thru all the js frameworks, and when i saw vue... it immediately was like love at first sight... that template->script->style SFC just made sense to me... (that was like 3-4 years ago) ... now 2023.. i think vue seems most stable ecosystem/framework out there in JS world... I dont trust frameworks like react and angular... wich major version numnber is 17.x shows how bad the developers are and dont get it right in the firs time and reinventing and fixing their problems lol... and breaking things... but i agree with ur comment... everytime i see some fancy thing... i sometimes get stuck, because too many abstractions in JS world and frameworks... and i go check how stuff are made.. so i would atleast understand how something is in vanilla or smt... its getting so surreal already that people dont know even, that u dont need libraries for modals anymore or that new nifty things in JS exist like .groupBy() , not entirelyt sure if its meant to be internal query builder or smt? .. its def interesting tho.... :D now reinventing the wheel with hyping htmx ... its still javascript tho. I think people are a biot too concerned about bloat... 90% apps are not giant apps and dont care about dev env bloat... ur build is fast enough whatever framework you use, because a lot of grunt work has been done for you.... people dont even minify css/js manually anymore... i bet some newer than me noob devs... dont ewven know that minificatiojn or obfuscation is a thing... i think i learned to code by my friend saying to me install node.. and type "npm init" into temrinal.... :D my journey started there.. i think i learned thru messing around with Gulp and trying to configure it : )and understand it
If anyone remembers guestbooks, then you're a veteran. Creating an HTML layout with is not a sin. They just made it look like one, just like with jQuery.
@@Microphunktv-jb3kj then again the adage "Don't stick your D*** in crazy", which almost always is used in the context of straight relationships, implies that there are crazy/broken women, and the fact it exists in the first place, implies there are enough men attracted to them, the advice is needed. Thus, the "Broken" status and de want to debug it are part of the class human and not of the gender interface
Soydevs and Soygineers love making mindless bullshit. These things are more humanities-based than scientific. Its not real engineering, its the gay/lame fantasies of midwits who overcomplicate simple shit
@@snarpis sometimes even if you want to use one library/tool the authors of frameworks or other tools change what tech you need to use for their shit to work properly.
Just stick with React.js hooks. Easy and pretty. Haven't tried Vue. Angular's learning curve is annoying and slow to learn. The inline ng syntax is annoying. The model view controller is annoying to me too. So learn React. Html, css, and Javascript basics are requirements for any framework.
The kludge started when the corp idiots thought that the browser was the end all be all application delivery client. No one ever just stopped and said "this is a really bad idea" they just kept adding bandaids to sucking chest wound
I mean, jQuery still works most of the time, specially if the web views are not that complex. On top of that, I don't need to download 1GB of dependencies per project in order to use it, so I'll take it over whatever fancy framework is trendy these days anyway.
React, Angular & all these trash JS Frameworks. Websites will work fine with HTML, CSS, JS, jQuery & LAMP Stack. Dumb Startup Founders with Papa's Money are fooled by IT Dept to use newer stacks to suck all funds, finally killing the company.
@@harris.sensorsoffline6419 you.dont get it do you. You are probably someone who can't adapt to changes. Yes you can code perfectly fine websites not using the frameworks but that is not the point. The point is the speed and ease at which you can do so. Those frameworks vastly speeds up the process. I can guarantee you that me or anyone using one of those frameworks that know how to use it can code the same site 10 times faster than you would take using vanilla methods. That one makes downloading those dependencies worth it. Also it's less than a gb and if you have any clue what you are doing you would download it once and use the same directory for all your projects, you defs don't need to do it for every project haha 😂
@@tiaan_va react framework is too complex, if you will need to modify, or find bugs in it after awhile, it can be a problem, also websites with vanilla js work faster, if you know whay you are doing.
I'm a developer who got asked one day to port an old app made only by three javascript files with thousands of lines of jQuery code each to Angular.. let's just say that it took a strong will not to quit my job on the spot. Took me almost a month. I don't even know how the guy who originally coded that was able to maintain it for years..
did Web development for a project in college. made me rethink my whole life trying to make it look good. Just copied a CSS sheet and changed the colours. Easy merit. Think big work smart
rethink how? like how? i did it for 1 month in a startup and i hated it extremely... web development sucks.. there is no purpose to it... its like painting using a brush attached to wrench.....there is just no point.
@@akashbharadwaj1 it made me rethink my life cause I was struggling to make it look good. But then realised I could steal other people's work because there's no plagiarism in codeing because almost everything has been written before in some form
it's almost an allegory for real life... like the "problems" being "fixed" are not actually problems for most people and the majority is content the way things are.
As an accessibility expert I despise framework. Lots of devs that see themselves to good for JavaScript so they created wholes new languages that in the end get regurgitate as a bloatware of JavaScript that can't play nice with the browser, don't cache properly and keep the web at the same performance that we add in the past despite the improved technology.
Yeah, they totally invented frameworks because they're too good for JS. Frameworks aren't languages btw. It's all javascript in the end. You can stop playing pretend now. You don't do any of these things. (Not even jquery.)
@@Ligma_Shlong Found the Soydev. This is a popular position to take outside of Junior devs who get mad their newfound nextjs skills are borderline useless irl
jQuery is still used in 73% of the websites because of following reasons: 1. Learning curve of new fancy frameworks are somewhat steep. Developers have to shift Whole mindset to "Reactive" programming. Which can take time. 2. These new fancy frameworks provides too... Much features. All are basically made to build single page applications, and complex user interfaces. So, they're overkill for simple projects requiring minimal DOM manipulations. 3. Setup of all these fancy frameworks requires whole new ecosystem support. It's hard to setup them for production without node and Babel/webpack. On the other hand jQuery requires only one script tag.
I knew shit was braindead when Soydevs started mindlessly droning about Server Side Rendering, only for basic CRA to run infinitely faster than even the most minimal nextjs app I could make. Its honestly maddening.
@@honkhonk8009 I thought that php has too many frameworks, cms, and open source websites. But then JS revolution started, and there was new framework popping up every day !!!!
@@robinvegas4367 and from where does Div tag came from and Text tag, Button Tag, and all other tags...??? If you see < any text> that means framework is using html behind the scenes and fooling you and you are being fooled believing that its not HTML... As we can't deny Sun's presence we can't deny Html, its a universal truth...
There actually is a problem, web applications should ideally rely on a RESTful API and a purely client based frontend. Writing pure Javascript for a frontend is madness though, which is why jquery was written, jquery doesn't have a rigid enough structure which is when the others started piling up, though in the end none of them really work as intended since Javascript itself as a language is an antithesis to rigid structure.
@@crunchykarsten8765everything works as intended, frameworks came to simplify JavaScript HTML, they do a lot of stuff under the hood. Web is changing, marketing and people demands more, so there are updates. The problem is heritage code, bad code, wrong decisions at the beginning.
Fun fact. None of these "fixes" are necessary and all you really need was available around 2000 already with HTML CSS and JS. You don't need nothing else and if you think you do you are just bloating your website more with things that break on older hardware.
yep, javascript and css are on the same level. html created the dom, then css and js were utilized to give static/dynamic properties to the document objects. (frameworks are just js based toys, not standards. web apis are more important.)
@@bigdoggetom6549 you can still use old tech if you want (PHP still accounts for 75% of web servers), but I heard that Go (with Templ probably) + htmx (+ Wasm?) was a breath of fresh air for building websites without all the abstractions we have nowadays, what do you think?
im honestly so baffled on what to learn, should i just keep to js-html and css since they are basic and fundemental languages because their are 1k different frameworks and i dont wanna learn them i feel like it is a waste of energy and its dumb asf what do you thing am i r3?
Funny story, I went to SXSW in 2018 and I asked a question to someone presenting about coding with JavaScript new frameworks like Vue. He argued that jQuery is dead.... That was 5 years ago!
in all fairness I wouldn't use it. jquery is still used in many websites because of tech debt and/or devs scared to learn a reactive library. If browsers would add reactiveness native to JS, I'd gladly use vanilla, but at the moment any complex website requires one of the solutions above I'm afraid
I think you programmer have been Programmed and put the attention the wrong way. Witch library and language is dead is not the point. The internett is being monopolized. Thats the point, the internett should be a free surfing place for all, and it should not be just,Google/Facebook,thats wrong
@@Andy_Rocket I'm afraid we lost that battle long ago - Chrome is the most used browser (Google) - Variations like Opera/Brave/etc (Google chromium engine) - Safari (Apple) and all iOS browsers including Chrome are Safari Engine (still Apple) - Firefox is one of the few with its own engine, but statistics on analytics are always around 3% - Edge is also Chromium engine (Google) now Apple doesn't have any interests in the web because they prefer to monopolize the ios app store and they play on the interconnection between apple devices, so Safari is always light year behind Chrome/ium So in summary internet WEB belongs to Google. Sad but true 🤷🏻♂️ Back in the days of IE and Netscape we were restricted by Microsoft and their browser Next Firefox changed everything and the majority of users moved from Netscape to Firefox. that was the time when we experienced freedom and big improvements Lets keep in mind that WebKit started in linux with Konqueror, but now it's what Apple uses to monopolize the ios browsers store (Apple's version of course) Then Chrome monopolized the web also starting from WebKit and then moving to their own engine. Now that's a "good" thing because they are evolving the browser at high speed (if you follow their channels there's something new every week), but because Safari still holds more than 20% of the users we can't use almost any of the new toys 😅 In an ideal world the engine should be handled by another company and all these whale companies should make use of it, so all changes are always immediately available. but that's utopia and we know it 😂 react/angular/vue/svelte etc are not the problem at all. if the engine was a better product we would have native reactivity and more tools that would make all these external libraries useless
Eh, there's a lot that this leaves out. The creation of many of the HTML5 standards were functionally a replacement for Flash Player in the wake of Apple deciding to not support Adobe Flash on the iPhone. We had the same monstrosities back then, but in the intervening years we learned to build our monstrosities on top of open standards. We also learned responsive web design, so primarily we learned how to make our monstrosities run on cell phones.
@@matthewbalch3324 "responsive web design" then why does every website i visit take so long to load despite me having such good internet, it feels like everything has just gotten more bloated and slower for no benefit
Nope... I have seen first-hand that the Smart, Hard-working people do NOT get promoted: It's because they're harder to replace. Instead, they like to promote the Lazy & Incompetent: Their previous job & responsibilities are easier to fill & get covered.
Guys, I am old. I started web dev in 2008, and I jave worked on all these except solid, htmx and web assembly at job, and in the exact order. You can add Knockout, DurandalJS, BackboneJS, EmberJS, also in the unmentioned set of frameworks.
Because you'd end up writing jQuery in the end anyhow if you're doing more than what you could do with css (on a basic project/non SPA), unless of course nothing you're doing has ever been done or your tool choices are dictated by popularity/familiarity rather than reason.
Vanilla JS has always been able to do everything jQuery does, that's why it was built on it. The whole point was to get it done moe easily, and most importantly, to get it done the same way across different browsers, specially old ones. The difference from Babel? I don't need to download GBs of dependencies or run console commands in order to use it.
@@TheDragShot indeed there wasn't much point of rewriting methods that are already confirmed to be cross browser compatible back then particularly, the other option was mootools which funnily enough doesn't feature in this video yet it should surely have been included if it were not so ridiculously react centric (neither does handlebars.js, moustache, underscore etc) . When ajax became a thing in fact javascript had enough differences between browser implementations to make jQuery a sensible choice, time spent wrangling with that isn't time well spent IMO.
Microsoft and Nokia bundle jQuery on their platforms.jQuery is a JavaScript library designed to simplify HTML DOM tree traversal and manipulation, as well as event handling, CSS animations, and Ajax.jQuery also provides capabilities for developers to create plug-ins on top of the JavaScript library
@@winzyl9546 well for starter we have more people here in Asia, even India and china alone have more people than all the west combined, second I barely see Westerns tutorial on RUclips teach jQuery, it's always react or other new frameworks, 3rd job requirements for web dev, never seen jQuery as requirements in their still in awhile.
All these frameworks are great for some things, but they're honestly pretty clunky once you really get going with your project. Pure JS or JQuery is often still very usable and much faster than those frameworks at that point because you have way more control.
React is fun and has a lot going for it, but whenever these complex types of codes hit speed bumps, they just crash hard. Trying to use Next.js and Prisma for something, the routing is amazing and such a cool idea, but making queries is an extra 10 step process. Would rather just lose the nice routing to make easier queries
![Chino Pacas - Modo Capone (with Drake & Fuerza Regida) [Video Oficial]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zjv8TQ0gBkg/mqdefault.jpg)
As a legendary programmer once said:
"An idiot admires complexity, a genius admires simplicity"
RIP Terry.
@@NNokia-jz6jb The greatest programmer to have ever lived.
@@wlockuz4467Is that a Salem Techsperts reference? lol
@@lloyd26 Terry was the best of all the programmers out there. He wrote his own compiler.
Do you use templeOS to quote him tho m
2023: HTML is used in 100% of websites
Somebody needs to invent HTMW to fix this mess.
there are websites that are plain text
@@dislike__button it is already done. It is called html5
@ plain text still needs to be in HTML containers
@@gr6e nope, you can serve plain text with plain text mime type and browsers will render it as plain text
Ah, this is madness! I know, I'll make a framework to fix it!
Next:
there are now 24 competing standards
Scientists say that in 2050 there'll be more JS framework than the population of China.
@@KhoPhi And the new one is even called Next(JS).
Good luck bud
@@KhoPhiXKCD
As a legend programmer once said;
There are two types of languages: Those which programmers complain about and those they don't use.
Bjarne Stroustrup creator of C++
It's true.... I love Rust, Swift, Java, pascal, Pl/1, cobal and assembly because I don't have to use them.
Actually there are only 2 types of languages: Those who require too many libraries and frameworks and those who requires minimal external libraries to accomplish basic tasks.
@@nishantraval2740Meh, you can do basic tasks with vanilla JS despite the vast landscape of different frameworks and libraries. This cateogorization is rather pointless, languages with more users will naturally have more libraries developed.
@@nishantraval2740lol nah
"759 bugs on report, 759 bugs! Take one down, patch it out, 989 bugs on report! FATAL ERROR."
Average developer's day:
8am: wake up
9am: make code
9:01am: break entire application
1:30pm: fix application
1:32pm: break everything again
2:00pm: eat
3:00pm: fix errors
3:05pm: 999 more errors
3:06pm: give up
3:07pm: sleep
SEGMENTATION FAULT
@@4livetv934C programming?
@vladloukine2813 9:05 pm: Wake up in cold sweat, realizing how to fix the issue you did earlier today.
9:12pm: Implement fix
9:14pm: Get mad that fix doesn't work
9:15pm: Delete fix
9:16pm: Run code again, suddenly it works.
9:30pm: Go to bed
Then the cycle repeats.
@@vladloukine2813damn😢😂fr
Classic programmer joke
Situation: There are 14 different standards
“What? 14?! That’s crazy! We need to develop one universal standard that covers all use cases!”
Situation: There are 15 different standards
Xkcd. And it’s hardly a joke honestly
😂
@@halkon4412 it plays better as the comic than it does written like this
@@daveSoupy I don’t mean it’s a bad joke, I mean it’s basically reality lol
😂😂😂
99% of web developers quit making a new framework right before solving all their problems
underrated comment
be different, finish the framework
😂
@@braxoff5thBut then... Who will be making the frameworks?
*frontend
We finished laravel for the backends a decade ago 🤣
HTML is the Singularity itself.
@LeoMods_watch me build a website using only javascript CPU-based rendering
@LeoMods_laughs in xml
@LeoMods_give or take 0.001%
@LeoMods_not true. Some can use xml/ xls instead
@@jakubrejzekjunior7349 how
The most beautiful youtube short I have ever seen
I still sneak some JQuery on my projects and nobody knows it
No one will know
You perv
I dont even care to use the latest jquery version just an random old version is good
@@TeDynefyeah avoid all those pesky modern breaking changes. Just tell your visitors not to use anything newer than IE6. If it doesn't work though you can always use a Flash plug in. 😆
@@hardlifting150 Nah. you cant even see the difference. Jquery is enough for everything. Just less work hours
2024: Waterplane is invented to fix Fireship
Let's start work
2025: *Thundertank is invented to fix Waterplane*
@@Tambuburay8882026 : InsulatorMk5 invented to restrain and handle Thundertank
2028:Grassmechanizedinfantry is invented to fix thundertank@@Tambuburay888
2026: Windtricycle invented to fix thundertank
PHP + Bootstrap + some cursed javascript abomination still going strong
instant flashbacks 💕
no way thats what i do
Proud to say I never once touched bootstrap
I love PHP ❤️
+ jQuery of course
A true dumpster fire
That's what makes web programming enjoyable. It's a wild wild west out here. Not fun, though, for beginners and end users of the software we create
You are masochistic @@austinedeclan10
@@allyc0des972 😂 Indeed I am
@@allyc0des972 It's not masochism, it's being a based dev
@@LuisSierra42that’s just being a dev.
McNally voice: You are using Angular JS from 2010, it can be defeated with an Angular 2 from 2016
*highfive lol best comment, no doubt
These frameworks are just annoying.
JQuery is really pulling that Php line:
"You don't like me, I'm going nowhere"
Props to the coders who were smart enough to create job security
props aren't a thing to angular developers
Is that what JS stands for?
@@ahmadsaleh9635 nice one 😂 (a react-native dude)
@@Mad3011 good one!
Props? Is it a react pun
And this is just the technologies that survived. There were Java Applets, Flash was ubiquitous for many years, VBScript in the browser was a competitor to JS years ago, and Silverlight was discontinued as recently as 2019.
Honestly, I'm completely _SHOCKED_ that Web Servers don't send LUA for the Browser to interpret !!! LOL
@@nikolaikalashnikov4253 You joke, but I'm fairly sure there's more than a few browser based games now doing exactly that internally.
@@nikolaikalashnikov4253 it's bad enough already, don't give them any more ideas!
java applets ahhhhhhhhhhh, really hated it
@@nikolaikalashnikov4253 tbh I wish this would be the case just to have another reason to invest time in Lua 😅
FYI: South Korean Government webpages require all government softwares to run specific combos of web frameworks based on ancient versions of Spring Framework (also known as egovframe). jQuery is part of that and is mandatory. So yes, new jQuery code is being written. In 2023!
Woah they’re already using ruins 😂
what's so wrong w jquery though
@@spasm additional large file needs to be downloaded onto the client to for it to work, that's why more and more of its features are slowly becoming native to js/ECMAScript
Leave it to governments to make their websites with dinosaur tech 😂
sad fact*
A teacher once told me: Imagine you have a TV set, two consoles, 5 sound boxes, a box to connect it to the internet, a box for cable TV, a record player, a DVD player and an Alexa connected to it and now you just have a bunch of cables behind the cupboard. YOU have some idea how it all works together, but as soon as someone else touches it... it is over!
Funny when job vacancies are like “Should know Angular, Vue, React and JQuery” and I have to remind the companies in interviews “Why do you have 4 frameworks listed on your job post? A website should only use 1, 2 in very extreme cases.”. I usually never get a call back after that. 😅
a website should use 0 framework. if a framwork can do something, vanillajs can do that better.
Because those companies are run by the marketing team who don't know anything about development and the engineers hold no power in the organisation
@@wile123456 REAL
@@rablobanda: Better, but with much more implementation time.
@@somebody700 Yeah HR post them, but they don't write them. HR will include basic company requirements, but not job specific requirements.
JQuery is like PHP, it's never getting out of the system 😂
Yes loll😂
@@RealNaps living legends (PHP & JQuery)😂
sooo... web herpes?
It is just so much simpler to start a site with jQuery than to learn a new framework every time. I would also not use jQuery if I could but it works on all modern browsers unlike just pure js.
Why should it. PHP is totally fine in most cases. Just because it's uncool in hipster circles where nobody really works but all just learning new node frameworks all the time which get abandoned a few months after their hype does not mean PHP is actually bad or outdated. Quite the opposite. It's solid, it's fast, it's stable, well maintained, widely supported, but yeah, it's soo uncool .. such lame merch they have! Never would drink my macha latte in a startup meeting while wearing a PHP shirt ...
Software development is less engineering and more philosophical debates
True.
That's webdev
Not in ASM
webdev is not engineering
Without the debates we'd still be engineering in COBOL or MUMPS
I sanitize my hands every time after I work with frontend
I sanitize my soul also with alcohol.
And I sanitize my throat by Gargling with Beer and Vodka.
I sanitize all my inputs, so no js for me.
I miss the days where most webpages were something you could code in notepad with standard html tags. That was before you had 50+ scripts running on one page, 90% of them served ads, and 10% of them did stuff in the background that you probably didn't care about, like checking what kind of browser you're using. Back during the 90s, when this was the case, the only way you got a virus, was by downloading an executable, and nothing downloaded without you knowing about it, especially since download speeds were so slow back then, if something DID download, you'd notice it.
Technology started out so beautiful but went so bad ...
You can still do that for static websites
@@ShadowriverUB Even a lot of static webpages have several KB worth of JS code that it's hard to find the actual "meat" of the webpage.
Why have something simple and elegant when it could be full of BLOAT?
@@ShadowriverUB Semi dynamic too but than all those cross origin poolicies are a PITA
Webdev is the Kowloon walled city of programming
And there is me, still chilling on pure HTML because I don't know shit
i do pure HTML and a bit of basic CSS to escape this web dev madness
Live your best life
I recently made a website in pure html and css because I realized that was really the only thing I needed for this particular project. Makes my website lightweight too!
You Know more than a decent amount of Frameworker who need to include 1k instructions just to output a button tag.
As if HTML is too complex to bring it to life.
2024: JS still has monopoly on the front-end
You might be able to write over 95% of your client-side in the language that compiles to webassembly but there will pretty much always be the shim of javascript invoking the loader. Unless w3c makes a link attribute that can pull webassembly and ... do the right thing?
There was never a competition
@@fortuneosho8137well, we used to have Java applets 😅
i mean, the browser only supports HTML, CSS and JS.....
webassembly is getting it
Frameworks are like fashion trends, don't do it, just use strong boots and go trough wherever terrain you want
when i started self-learning.. i went thru all the js frameworks, and when i saw vue... it immediately was like love at first sight... that template->script->style SFC just made sense to me... (that was like 3-4 years ago)
... now 2023.. i think vue seems most stable ecosystem/framework out there in JS world...
I dont trust frameworks like react and angular... wich major version numnber is 17.x
shows how bad the developers are and dont get it right in the firs time and reinventing and fixing their problems lol... and breaking things...
but i agree with ur comment...
everytime i see some fancy thing... i sometimes get stuck, because too many abstractions in JS world and frameworks... and i go check how stuff are made.. so i would atleast understand how something is in vanilla or smt...
its getting so surreal already that people dont know even, that u dont need libraries for modals anymore or that new nifty things in JS exist like .groupBy() , not entirelyt sure if its meant to be internal query builder or smt? .. its def interesting tho.... :D
now reinventing the wheel with hyping htmx ... its still javascript tho.
I think people are a biot too concerned about bloat... 90% apps are not giant apps and dont care about dev env bloat...
ur build is fast enough whatever framework you use, because a lot of grunt work has been done for you.... people dont even minify css/js manually anymore...
i bet some newer than me noob devs... dont ewven know that minificatiojn or obfuscation is a thing... i think i learned to code by my friend saying to me install node.. and type "npm init" into temrinal.... :D my journey started there.. i think i learned thru messing around with Gulp and trying to configure it : )and understand it
What is the “strong boots” in your opinion?
Springboostrap
Go: allow me to introduce myself.
Also Go: how about only using the standard library?
@@kyukyu90002anything except a bunch of random unknown new fancy languages and frameworks everyones pressuring you to learn because its "faster"
If anyone remembers guestbooks, then you're a veteran. Creating an HTML layout with is not a sin. They just made it look like one, just like with jQuery.
_- "Hey, as long as it works."_
"I can fix her"
She can break me!
oiy oiy...
its the opposiute.. women think they can fix the man lol... or change him...
ah.. women are eventlisteners?
overused observer pattern lol
@@dumpsockpuppet5619 ... continue
Some can. Some just get a divorce 🤪
Wait, which channel is this?
@@Microphunktv-jb3kj then again the adage "Don't stick your D*** in crazy", which almost always is used in the context of straight relationships, implies that there are crazy/broken women, and the fact it exists in the first place, implies there are enough men attracted to them, the advice is needed.
Thus, the "Broken" status and de want to debug it are part of the class human and not of the gender interface
Me still writing in C that’s been virtually unchanged in like 50 years
*Looks at C11, C17, C23 and early C2Y.*
Yeah, completely unchanged.
@@WallySketchThose changes were tiny
@@Jason9637 Pretty much unchanged
C lang has its own chaos
No way there is a c chad in here 😮
Number one reason to be a backend developer
No churn in Java land? Surely you jest.
Exactly. Shielded from all this frontend madness
php all anyday anytime
I think asking an ACTUAL full stack developer what is harder front end or back end would be fair
same thing happens in backend only different languages are invented
Tech dorks "inventing" things like buses and trains every couple of years is starting to make a lot more sense
Soydevs and Soygineers love making mindless bullshit. These things are more humanities-based than scientific. Its not real engineering, its the gay/lame fantasies of midwits who overcomplicate simple shit
As someone training to be an offensive security professional, I love when websites use older software/code, it makes my job so easy
This is why my favorite flavor is vanilla.
What about vanilla lattee
@@Malomat-yz9mo I dilute my coffee so much it shouldn't even legally be considered coffee anymore
This is why I always get completely lost when it comes to web development
Web development is a true hell.
Well I guess you can just focus on one set of languages ? I'm only interested in web dev from far away but I don't think you have to know all of them
@@snarpis sometimes even if you want to use one library/tool the authors of frameworks or other tools change what tech you need to use for their shit to work properly.
Just stick with React.js hooks. Easy and pretty. Haven't tried Vue.
Angular's learning curve is annoying and slow to learn. The inline ng syntax is annoying. The model view controller is annoying to me too.
So learn React. Html, css, and Javascript basics are requirements for any framework.
SAME, I don't know where to start from all these shit mashed up together
I love these vids, as engineer who's been programming for about 14yrs now. I truly enjoy this stuff.
I don't, they keep on reinventing the wheel!
lol one of the few shorts i actually appreciate despite not being in web dev anymore since 2012
so where are you now if not in web dev? which field is better according to you?
"The great thing about so many standards is that everyone can have one!"
C.I.D's Abhijeet in the end was unexpected in your video Jeff 🤣🤣
Iska matlab samjhe daya?
+1
Just bring back the Marquee tag. We peaked in the 90’s.
It's still there
The kludge started when the corp idiots thought that the browser was the end all be all application delivery client. No one ever just stopped and said "this is a really bad idea" they just kept adding bandaids to sucking chest wound
blink tag ftw
Never left.
I mean, jQuery still works most of the time, specially if the web views are not that complex. On top of that, I don't need to download 1GB of dependencies per project in order to use it, so I'll take it over whatever fancy framework is trendy these days anyway.
React, Angular & all these trash JS Frameworks. Websites will work fine with HTML, CSS, JS, jQuery & LAMP Stack.
Dumb Startup Founders with Papa's Money are fooled by IT Dept to use newer stacks to suck all funds, finally killing the company.
@@harris.sensorsoffline6419 you.dont get it do you. You are probably someone who can't adapt to changes. Yes you can code perfectly fine websites not using the frameworks but that is not the point. The point is the speed and ease at which you can do so. Those frameworks vastly speeds up the process. I can guarantee you that me or anyone using one of those frameworks that know how to use it can code the same site 10 times faster than you would take using vanilla methods. That one makes downloading those dependencies worth it. Also it's less than a gb and if you have any clue what you are doing you would download it once and use the same directory for all your projects, you defs don't need to do it for every project haha 😂
@@harris.sensorsoffline6419 or lemp stack - nginx over apache
@@tiaan_va "it's less than a gb"
its so over for frameworks
@@tiaan_va react framework is too complex, if you will need to modify, or find bugs in it after awhile, it can be a problem, also websites with vanilla js work faster, if you know whay you are doing.
I'm a developer who got asked one day to port an old app made only by three javascript files with thousands of lines of jQuery code each to Angular.. let's just say that it took a strong will not to quit my job on the spot. Took me almost a month. I don't even know how the guy who originally coded that was able to maintain it for years..
Html + css + pure js is the king.
King of nothing
@@Majkels Found the soydev
@@honkhonk8009 found the nondev
@@honkhonk8009Average senior engineer gigachad flexing on strongest framework user
That Indian meme from CID 😂
JQuery is great. I used to have a copy of the source file in my desktop and read it every day. Its a 10k line file
This is the most insane comment I've ever read.
single greatest comment in the history of web dev 😂
XD
Did you finish it?
Damm...😅
Minified?
did Web development for a project in college. made me rethink my whole life trying to make it look good.
Just copied a CSS sheet and changed the colours.
Easy merit. Think big work smart
rethink how? like how? i did it for 1 month in a startup and i hated it extremely... web development sucks.. there is no purpose to it... its like painting using a brush attached to wrench.....there is just no point.
@@akashbharadwaj1 it made me rethink my life cause I was struggling to make it look good. But then realised I could steal other people's work because there's no plagiarism in codeing because almost everything has been written before in some form
@@akashbharadwaj1 I did also fucking hate web development and would rather do anything else.
@@braythesmall4131 so which field are you in now?
@@akashbharadwaj1 im doing computer science at uni atm, just started.
Didn't expect that CID meme!!
it's almost an allegory for real life... like the "problems" being "fixed" are not actually problems for most people and the majority is content the way things are.
Wow, there are so many JavaScript frameworks out there that I don't know which to choose. I know! I'll make my own!
Don't use one ☺️
right, that is the problem in a nutshell!
The way editor just gave up on arrangement and dropped everything in a pile
As an accessibility expert I despise framework. Lots of devs that see themselves to good for JavaScript so they created wholes new languages that in the end get regurgitate as a bloatware of JavaScript that can't play nice with the browser, don't cache properly and keep the web at the same performance that we add in the past despite the improved technology.
Yeah, they totally invented frameworks because they're too good for JS. Frameworks aren't languages btw. It's all javascript in the end.
You can stop playing pretend now. You don't do any of these things. (Not even jquery.)
@@Ligma_Shlong abstracted junk, that piles performance issues on the client side. jquery is still goated tho.
@@Ligma_Shlong Found the Soydev.
This is a popular position to take outside of Junior devs who get mad their newfound nextjs skills are borderline useless irl
And inspector abhijeet still confused, why I am here😂😂
This is why 30 years later i just do everything in html.
jQuery is still used in 73% of the websites because of following reasons:
1. Learning curve of new fancy frameworks are somewhat steep. Developers have to shift Whole mindset to "Reactive" programming. Which can take time.
2. These new fancy frameworks provides too... Much features. All are basically made to build single page applications, and complex user interfaces. So, they're overkill for simple projects requiring minimal DOM manipulations.
3. Setup of all these fancy frameworks requires whole new ecosystem support. It's hard to setup them for production without node and Babel/webpack. On the other hand jQuery requires only one script tag.
I knew shit was braindead when Soydevs started mindlessly droning about Server Side Rendering, only for basic CRA to run infinitely faster than even the most minimal nextjs app I could make.
Its honestly maddening.
@@honkhonk8009 I thought that php has too many frameworks, cms, and open source websites. But then JS revolution started, and there was new framework popping up every day !!!!
simple. because wordpress still exist
Php and wordpress has left the room
That's backend not frontend 😅, it's not like you can run WordPress in the browser, WP could depend on any of those mentioned.
@@edism90% of WordPress themes and plugins use jquery.
Most WordPress sites use JQuery
@@edismackshually you can run wordpress in the browser
they got it working with wasm, it's simultaneously awesome and horrifically cursed xD
WordPress💀
and here i am refusing to use anything else beyond pure javascript XD
Should've mentioned Flash RIP
2024: every fucking webpage, including the router setup UI, runs on html and a bit JavaScript
Sass invented to fix css, tailwind invented to fix sass, style X invented to fix tailwind.
You forgot bootstrap
Stylex has different use cases
I'm still enjoying SASS.
Style x is total mess. At least yet
Sass is king
html is still used on 100% of websites, let that sink in
I keep letting sinks in and now my house looks like Bed, Bath, and Beyond. Send help.
It's not the same HTML from the beginning. It has evolved too.
@@ZarabozoYeah, HTML 5 replaced Flash after all.
That knowledge disgusts me. It's the most useless, bloated, verbose piece of UI garbage I've ever seen
@@robinvegas4367 and from where does Div tag came from and Text tag, Button Tag, and all other tags...??? If you see
< any text> that means framework is using html behind the scenes and fooling you and you are being fooled believing that its not HTML...
As we can't deny Sun's presence we can't deny Html, its a universal truth...
"if it works, don't change it"
All these frontend frameworks are the typical embodiment of the saying, "solutions looking for a problem"
It's more like "I don't care if it doesn't work, I'm not coding this shit again!"
There actually is a problem, web applications should ideally rely on a RESTful API and a purely client based frontend. Writing pure Javascript for a frontend is madness though, which is why jquery was written, jquery doesn't have a rigid enough structure which is when the others started piling up, though in the end none of them really work as intended since Javascript itself as a language is an antithesis to rigid structure.
@@crunchykarsten8765everything works as intended, frameworks came to simplify JavaScript HTML, they do a lot of stuff under the hood. Web is changing, marketing and people demands more, so there are updates.
The problem is heritage code, bad code, wrong decisions at the beginning.
@@crunchykarsten8765wdym? Just throw Typescript into the mess and you have rigid structure
@@crunchykarsten8765 Opinion
Fun fact. None of these "fixes" are necessary and all you really need was available around 2000 already with HTML CSS and JS. You don't need nothing else and if you think you do you are just bloating your website more with things that break on older hardware.
That is Abhijit from cid
Hahaha yes.
CSS was proposed in 1994 but wasn’t implemented until ‘96. JavaScript came out in December 1995.
yep, javascript and css are on the same level. html created the dom, then css and js were utilized to give static/dynamic properties to the document objects. (frameworks are just js based toys, not standards. web apis are more important.)
WebAssembly...The only thing without a fix yet
I was just about to study an HTML course. Guess I'm in for a treat
You'll have HTML no matter what, can't get wrong with that
Edit: in web development*
I gave up web development. The modern way of building applications is disgusting
@@bigdoggetom6549 Me too.. Getting into Networking where I can grow old
@@bigdoggetom6549 you can still use old tech if you want (PHP still accounts for 75% of web servers), but I heard that Go (with Templ probably) + htmx (+ Wasm?) was a breath of fresh air for building websites without all the abstractions we have nowadays, what do you think?
what do you mean?@@bigdoggetom6549
"to fix this madness" was the best
BackboneJS: did I ever exist or what?
I am still waiting for the next framework. This time will be build by an AI.
I use vanilla html/css/js and build custom responsive webapps with ease. It's all about learning how to properly do things instead of being lazy.
im honestly so baffled on what to learn, should i just keep to js-html and css since they are basic and fundemental languages because their are 1k different frameworks and i dont wanna learn them i feel like it is a waste of energy and its dumb asf what do you thing am i r3?
Funny story, I went to SXSW in 2018 and I asked a question to someone presenting about coding with JavaScript new frameworks like Vue. He argued that jQuery is dead.... That was 5 years ago!
Same goes to PHP, they said PHP is dead. 2023. It still there.
Bottomline: Whoever said xxx is dead, it will be there for another year.
in all fairness I wouldn't use it. jquery is still used in many websites because of tech debt and/or devs scared to learn a reactive library.
If browsers would add reactiveness native to JS, I'd gladly use vanilla, but at the moment any complex website requires one of the solutions above I'm afraid
I've heard people say over & over again that *_Java_* is "dead" ... !!!
I think you programmer have been Programmed and put the attention the wrong way. Witch library and language is dead is not the point. The internett is being monopolized. Thats the point, the internett should be a free surfing place for all, and it should not be just,Google/Facebook,thats wrong
@@Andy_Rocket I'm afraid we lost that battle long ago
- Chrome is the most used browser (Google)
- Variations like Opera/Brave/etc (Google chromium engine)
- Safari (Apple) and all iOS browsers including Chrome are Safari Engine (still Apple)
- Firefox is one of the few with its own engine, but statistics on analytics are always around 3%
- Edge is also Chromium engine (Google)
now Apple doesn't have any interests in the web because they prefer to monopolize the ios app store and they play on the interconnection between apple devices, so Safari is always light year behind Chrome/ium
So in summary internet WEB belongs to Google. Sad but true 🤷🏻♂️
Back in the days of IE and Netscape we were restricted by Microsoft and their browser
Next Firefox changed everything and the majority of users moved from Netscape to Firefox. that was the time when we experienced freedom and big improvements
Lets keep in mind that WebKit started in linux with Konqueror, but now it's what Apple uses to monopolize the ios browsers store (Apple's version of course)
Then Chrome monopolized the web also starting from WebKit and then moving to their own engine.
Now that's a "good" thing because they are evolving the browser at high speed (if you follow their channels there's something new every week), but because Safari still holds more than 20% of the users we can't use almost any of the new toys 😅
In an ideal world the engine should be handled by another company and all these whale companies should make use of it, so all changes are always immediately available. but that's utopia and we know it 😂
react/angular/vue/svelte etc are not the problem at all. if the engine was a better product we would have native reactivity and more tools that would make all these external libraries useless
Any Indians wondering that "Abhijeet" gave global meme poster?
Nope
I admit I laughed way more than i should
TIL we haven’t actually solved any web problems since 2006.
Eh, there's a lot that this leaves out. The creation of many of the HTML5 standards were functionally a replacement for Flash Player in the wake of Apple deciding to not support Adobe Flash on the iPhone. We had the same monstrosities back then, but in the intervening years we learned to build our monstrosities on top of open standards. We also learned responsive web design, so primarily we learned how to make our monstrosities run on cell phones.
@@matthewbalch3324 "responsive web design" then why does every website i visit take so long to load despite me having such good internet, it feels like everything has just gotten more bloated and slower for no benefit
jQuery: I'm not a monster, I'm just ahead of the curve.
Abhijit kaha se aaya last mein CID wala 😂😂
I’ll just use Html and save my tiny brain the headache
Bootstrap is nice. All the rest of the frontend stuff he's talking about doesn't matter.
this needs to be in a chart of some sort showing fully what bases what and replaced what
One thing that is common in all of these is that some guy got promoted in a company for coming with these ideas that fix nothing actually.
Nope... I have seen first-hand that the Smart, Hard-working people do NOT get promoted: It's because they're harder to replace. Instead, they like to promote the Lazy & Incompetent: Their previous job & responsibilities are easier to fill & get covered.
Why did I just see this meme in text form on r/programmerhumor lmao
At this point I don't even know what to learn😮
Focus on JavaScript. I got my first job after learning Vue within a week. What did I use at the job? Vanilla JavaScript.
Html , css and JavaScript
@@beery6659 true
Everything obviously gawd
Learn to weld. Programmers will be obsolete.
love this explanation
✨To fix react again ✨ hahajajjaahhhaha
Guys, I am old. I started web dev in 2008, and I jave worked on all these except solid, htmx and web assembly at job, and in the exact order. You can add Knockout, DurandalJS, BackboneJS, EmberJS, also in the unmentioned set of frameworks.
the funny thing is, modern js doesn't require jQuery, you can just do everything in vanilla
Great point. Vanilla JS has superseded jQuery and many of the other frameworks.
Still baffles me people use jQuery at all when HTML\CSS\JS can technically do everything alone
Because you'd end up writing jQuery in the end anyhow if you're doing more than what you could do with css (on a basic project/non SPA), unless of course nothing you're doing has ever been done or your tool choices are dictated by popularity/familiarity rather than reason.
I no longer add jQuery to my projects, but im kinda like "well it's there I may as well.." when it's already part of one (like working on WP)
Vanilla JS has always been able to do everything jQuery does, that's why it was built on it. The whole point was to get it done moe easily, and most importantly, to get it done the same way across different browsers, specially old ones.
The difference from Babel? I don't need to download GBs of dependencies or run console commands in order to use it.
@@TheDragShot indeed there wasn't much point of rewriting methods that are already confirmed to be cross browser compatible back then particularly, the other option was mootools which funnily enough doesn't feature in this video yet it should surely have been included if it were not so ridiculously react centric (neither does handlebars.js, moustache, underscore etc) . When ajax became a thing in fact javascript had enough differences between browser implementations to make jQuery a sensible choice, time spent wrangling with that isn't time well spent IMO.
@@edism really no
I still miss flash. Hope it gets open sourced for native browser support one day
Microsoft and Nokia bundle jQuery on their platforms.jQuery is a JavaScript library designed to simplify HTML DOM tree traversal and manipulation, as well as event handling, CSS animations, and Ajax.jQuery also provides capabilities for developers to create plug-ins on top of the JavaScript library
JQuery is a Javascript library to fix Microsoft's horrrendous fuckup.
JavaScript can nowadays do most of the things jQuery can
But then "legacy code"
JavaScript can literally do everything jQuery can. It's not another language, it's a framework built upon JavaScript. It all is
@@bigdoggetom6549 It's library built on top of sizzle.js
Yes, but jQuery does it in more browsers and in way less steps 😅 .
@@TheDragShotunder the hood there’s probably more steps than necessary if anything… jQuery was, is, and always will remain a piece of shite
jQuery is still a requirement in every web dev job in many asian counties
for true? Get outta here
@@MikeStoneJapan how do you think 75% of all website still use jQuery? Despite the fact that the west has been using it less in the last decade
@@irun_monwho says the west use jquery less than the east?
@@winzyl9546 well for starter we have more people here in Asia, even India and china alone have more people than all the west combined, second I barely see Westerns tutorial on RUclips teach jQuery, it's always react or other new frameworks, 3rd job requirements for web dev, never seen jQuery as requirements in their still in awhile.
@@irun_mon I mean I guess. You do make a good point. What's the reason for still using it in that part of the world specifically?
All these frameworks are great for some things, but they're honestly pretty clunky once you really get going with your project. Pure JS or JQuery is often still very usable and much faster than those frameworks at that point because you have way more control.
I just escaped from tutorial hello, back in the abyss to learn jQuery again.
I’m now realizing I’m completely lost when it comes to front end
It's not only you... it's literally everyone lol.. The one who says "I understand it all" usually is just a hello world coder..
meanwhile, berkshire hathaway's website is still written in html + inline css styles hahahahah
and one day, browsers won't be able to show it because they'll end up just as bad as the million nth framework
@@Carl-hs420a Still mad how the React dev website told me to use nextjs instead of CRA
mom: why dont you study code...
Me:
After the multiversal web framework war, jQuery is He Who Remains.
Doctors prescribing medicine:
React is fun and has a lot going for it, but whenever these complex types of codes hit speed bumps, they just crash hard. Trying to use Next.js and Prisma for something, the routing is amazing and such a cool idea, but making queries is an extra 10 step process. Would rather just lose the nice routing to make easier queries