We have 20 verticals and 10 sloped at 45deg pointed roughly to the south south east.. The back of the verticals get morning, and front face our home. All on microinverters. Due to our lot we think both are great. None are oriented 'correctly' for our area. The front of the verticals point about 30degrees south of west. Overall of those panels, about 60pct comes from the verticals and 40pct from the southish facing slanted panells. We are near Nashville TN. All of those are Boviet 370 bifacials. We recently added 24 REC 370 single sided. 3 are slanted at 45deg faced to the west roughly 30degrees south of west. and 21 are the REC faced UP (yes, horizontal mount, all laid pretty flat on the ground. 20 of those are on the east side of the fence of panels and one on the west. Yes, small yard and hard to orient more than what we have. None on the roof, and we have a small yard. With all 54 panels we have generated a max of 9.2 kw at a time, and 74KWh in a day is our full day maximum. All of it comes through our 15 DS3-S microinverters from APsystems.
@SHVAC dude thats good results for both setup under crappy weather, if you can do the test again do not change anything but do the test when you know its going to be a sunny day, i am actually impressed with the results of the vertical panels, i may build a solar fence , zero yard space needed for the win!
Face the vertical panel south, east west is for solar farms for peak power early and late in the day. Face it south and put down some reflectix front and behind the panel, or white rock to simulate snow which is the time we need max power, the vertical will blow the sloped one away. My 465w in summer is only 300w, add snow and sun 570w. Vertical is not pointing at the sun so what did you expect from vertical in direct sun? Did you notice when the clouds came the vertical was producing while the sloped was 0. Try both panels in full overcast, face any direction, vertical should win. 40 snowfalls I never had snow on my panels. Haven't washed them since September.
Yep test again , but run the panels cables down the sides and not on back of panel to create shading issues . I think this is a great test as it shows that two of those panels vertically per bluetti will completely fill them every day after heavy overnight usage . I’d say it’s a great result for putting panels around the out sides of your property as a way to gain more power from dead spaces , one side early morning sunshine the other collecting afternoon sunshine 57% charge is nothing to sneeze at after all 👍
I live in AZ, and have open land, where there would be zero obstruction for horizontal and vertical. I just don't have 2 blue yetis to test any panels with. I have panels. But my solar project will be a long time, as I work slowly. Still useful information, even if not exactly pertinent to my scenario.
If you're in AZ with np obstructions to the east , definitely get some auto or manual tracking. I get nearly full power by 8-9 am cause the air is clear and panels are cool. Not so in afternoon. Though. Tracking helps a lot, especially with a small system.
Great side by comparison. Now try it on a Sunny and with reflective insulation (used for windows insulation) set at an angle on the ground, so that at noon it reflects back to the solar panels). This should greatly increase its energy production.
Cool, fun teat man! Would love to see results on a mostly sunny day. And try to get the wires out of the way so theyre not partially shading the back side
sun beating strait down is 22 miles to space, where as sideways will be hundreds or even thousands of miles of atmosphere .....i have 15 panels on the side of my 2 story and late afternoon is very in-efficient .....my roof panels kick their ass
Where did you get info that the vertical would be more efficient? I've only seen info that it was more efficient than previously thought due to the increased cooling, not that it was more efficient than horizontal.
Walk around that privacy fence in your yard. Count the loose nails in the East/West facing boards. Now count the loose nails in the North/South facing boards. If bifacial panels vertical East/West is the more efficient installation orientation compared to traditional Southern facing with appropriate tilt, racking solutions are going to have to be a whole lot more robust and aluminum will never, ever be a racking construction material option. The nice thing about vertical is that snow loads are no longer any sort of concern. The not-so-nice thing is that increased wind loads and and constantly changing pressures are concerns currently completely unaddressed by any racking method.
Of course when you are closer to the equator the vertical panel will do lower production when the sun is directly overhead, so location is calculated in when determining proper angle if you are designing a system to hit it's peak at noon, and even then only if your primary concerns is the minimum solar panels to hit that peak.
Wasabout to sey up my begginer solar array next week and had planned on verticle with 8 550 watt bifacials. Now I'm rethinking things??? I live in Canada in a very cold winter zone. Thanks for sharing and peace.
i get bifacial for same price as mono it only produces 200w on the backside a 550w bifacial so facing the back to the sun makes little sense but to catch reflection and early and late sun it makes sense no matter where you are , no doubt even on a roof if you let some light between the panels you pick up reflection... he is doing this test with a 400w bifacial that only produces 100w on the backside so the panels also matters for the resaults you need a bifacial that produces the same on each side to beat anything in a east west senario and it is probetly cheaper to glue 2 normal panels together then
backside of a vertical panel does not produce the same as the front a 550w produces 200w on backside, and 400w only 100w so to get the most out of this test you need the right panels
@@Hansen710 Yes I know. I own 2 bi-facial panels from EcoFlow and they produce betweenn 245 to 270 and are 220w panels. I was just curious of the panel that was vertical as to how well it would have done for the duration of the day.
I would like to see the vertical panel sitting in the centre of a white floor say 16' x 8'. Maybe a white fence perpendicular on its north side. I would also like to see identical battery systems. These two batteries are different sizes, they run different chemistries, and have different charge times.
If you want to supply another AC200L be my guest! 2000wh VS 2048wh is pretty negligible and they are both Lifepo4. It's as close as it's going to get from this little channel.
@@SmitHVAC. Well at least do the same test twice, while switching the batteries in the second test to prove the differences are not creating a variance larger than the 2.4% difference in battery size itself.
Test again, please, but this time test both panels in a vertical orientation, one with the front facing west, the other with the front facing east. The back of the Bifacial panels are not as efficient, but if you have half of your panels facing in opposite directions, you will average out the downsides. What you are then looking to compare to are the two panels facing south. The efficiency gains are in part due to lower temps of the panels for vertical systems, and if your inverter/mppt system maxes out during the hottest part of the day, this trades maxing out the panels at noonish for a longer span of time for collecting sunlight. This will depend on your setup, of course, so if you don't have enough panels to max out your inverter/mppt, you will probably not see as much benefit. It does mean you can add some more panels to your system to charge your batteries over a longer period of time.
@@SmitHVAC. I just watched it, cool vid, but I left the same suggestion there, a E/W vid with one each panel front facing each direction. It would give you numbers to work with in either direction, let you see if there are differences, and you can add the numbers together to see what an array like that could produce.
maybe you can get a cheap mylar heat emergency blanket and make a reflector for the bifacial solar cell to get light reflect on both sides of the panel.
adding reflection and the suggested hight to the bificial should add a bit... and the back does not produce the same as the front side, im not sure east/west position is where you gain most in many cases... my 550w only produce 200w on the backside, and those 400 w probetly produce 100W on the backside so the back side should probetly not be facing any sun it is probetly better to catch more or less only reflection and early sun with backside high north i would think a direct south is best because of the short winter days and low sun that moves at a shorter path and so far i havent seen any real vertical test in equator
Unfair with cloud cover. Interesting! how about a mix of Vertical and Slope. The temperature will be less on the vertical. The vertical will not hold dust or snow.
I am setting up a ground array with 3-370W panels. I will be running these into my Mega 3 from Oupes. I will need to run about 40-50 ft of wiring to get into the house where Oupes is. What is best wire to use?
I use 10 gauge wire from Signature solar. It comes in multiple different lengths. signaturesolar.com/pv-wire-50-ft-10-gauge-copper-30-amp-black-red/?ref=_KvVrzchAclARI&srsltid=AfmBOoqphhPA5KPWsRYAvZgscQa6MeqS3W9LlpXr22wxFy7M5GZv8uSJ
@@SmitHVAC. Thanks, I am a wholesale distributor for them. I'm new to solar and just getting set up. Installed 2 EG4 hybrid mini splits recently in my 2 garages.
The power stations are blocking light on the rear of the verticle panel. A shadow on one part of the panel affects the entire panel. I don't know how much, but it leaves the question. Oh, you moved it to the tilted panel, so the question then applies to the tilted panel. How much of the bifacial (rear-facing gain) has it decreased (compared to tilting it with something less light blocking). If the panels were monofacial, it wouldn't be a factor.
I would be interested in a SE and SW orientation (granted this doesn't apply to bifacial panels). I've arranged mine in SE (~60 degrees), S (~45 degrees), SW (~60 degrees) and horizontal directions. (Angles are from horizontal). They're highly vertical because of space limitations (and beginner's strategy); the panel orientations are a compromise to serve yearly operation (Ohio) (south panel angle will change for winter, spring-fall, and summer). I also will get shading from trees (except in winter and late spring/early summer). 4x100W panels (not bifacial) are wired in parallel (each manually switched to avoid voltage pull-down); 100W Harbor Freight Thunderbolt PWM charge controller; 10A fuse from the panels to the charge controller (only connected to 3 panels); controller has a total of 400W connected panels, and has not burned up. 2x12Vx140 minute reserve capacity flooded deep cycle batteries (older condition); 12V system. Sunny days are OK, struggles to collect charge on overcast days.
@@user-dd2jg6kv8y are we sure its not in the northern part of the world it works best with vertical ? a university in nederland tested 3 % gains with vertical panels the sun is lower in the sky in the northen part of the world, so would the vertical angle not be better and more direct in the north then at equator where the sun is comming from above the panel in a not so direct angle ?? i also think you need to think of the use of the space that becomes avalible solar farmig is a good way to get alot more out of a area with vertical panels we can combine food production better with vertical panels, in some cases solar farming also uses 1/4 of the water thanks to the shade it can provide and in your garden you would have more space and room for more panels personally i enjoy the shade my vertical panels gives my crappy neighbour, that part also have some value 🤫 i have them on top of eachother so it becomes a 4m wall 😆(i can tilt mine and choose the angle i want )
Bi-facial panels, mounted vertically, make a little sense in an area with snow on the ground. Other than that, stick with what we have known for decades.
Not the greatest test, you could have gone to a park or open field. Or just put the flat panel on top of your pergola. Nevertheless great idea for the test but poor execution.
It’s really dumb to compare a vertical solar panel to a horizontal one when Sun is striking the vertical one and shade is striking the horizontal one. Just for that reason alone whatever numbers you would’ve received in your test, they are horribly skewed from reality. Anybody who has any logical thinking could see that you started off your test horribly wrong if there were no obstructions both panels would’ve received Sun. You didn’t even mention whether panels were aligned to south. And when I meet south, I mean, solar south not magnetic south. Like I said, your idea was a good one to do this test, but your execution was piss poor.
@@jorgef70 Yet the horizontal panel still had better results, even though it was shaded. Like I said in the video, it's a real world test working with what I've got. My yard is the space I have to set up panels and make power, what they can make out in a field means nothing to me. Thanks for the view anyway.
Thanks for the effort! I'd like to see the test arranged where they both get approx same sun, e.g. not partial shade from roof, fence, shed, etc, if at all possible. Could also test once with primary vertical face to the afternoon sun, vs. Morning sun. Fun!
Interesting. Please try again on a sunny day.
Really enjoy these comparisons and would love to see what it looks like on a day that's more clear. Good stuff!
We have 20 verticals and 10 sloped at 45deg pointed roughly to the south south east.. The back of the verticals get morning, and front face our home. All on microinverters. Due to our lot we think both are great. None are oriented 'correctly' for
our area. The front of the verticals point about 30degrees south of west.
Overall of those panels, about 60pct comes from the verticals and 40pct from the southish facing slanted panells.
We are near Nashville TN.
All of those are Boviet 370 bifacials. We recently added 24 REC 370 single sided. 3 are slanted at 45deg faced to the west roughly 30degrees south of west. and 21 are the REC faced UP (yes, horizontal mount, all laid pretty flat on the ground. 20 of those are on the east side of the fence of panels and one on the west. Yes, small yard and hard to orient more than what we have. None on the roof, and we have a small yard. With all 54 panels we have generated a max of 9.2 kw at a time, and 74KWh in a day is our full day maximum. All of it comes through our 15 DS3-S microinverters from APsystems.
@SHVAC dude thats good results for both setup under crappy weather, if you can do the test again do not change anything but do the test when you know its going to be a sunny day, i am actually impressed with the results of the vertical panels, i may build a solar fence , zero yard space needed for the win!
Definitely once again on a sunny day
What brackets are holding the vertical panel.. I'm looking at how to build a vehicle bigacial fence ...
amzn.to/3XNut8y they are just the basic aluminum ones but they do the job
You can add mirrors to vertical panel at least 20° degrees facing the panel. To support in 12nn
Face the vertical panel south, east west is for solar farms for peak power early and late in the day. Face it south and put down some reflectix front and behind the panel, or white rock to simulate snow which is the time we need max power, the vertical will blow the sloped one away. My 465w in summer is only 300w, add snow and sun 570w. Vertical is not pointing at the sun so what did you expect from vertical in direct sun? Did you notice when the clouds came the vertical was producing while the sloped was 0. Try both panels in full overcast, face any direction, vertical should win. 40 snowfalls I never had snow on my panels. Haven't washed them since September.
Yep test again , but run the panels cables down the sides and not on back of panel to create shading issues . I think this is a great test as it shows that two of those panels vertically per bluetti will completely fill them every day after heavy overnight usage . I’d say it’s a great result for putting panels around the out sides of your property as a way to gain more power from dead spaces , one side early morning sunshine the other collecting afternoon sunshine 57% charge is nothing to sneeze at after all 👍
I live in AZ, and have open land, where there would be zero obstruction for horizontal and vertical. I just don't have 2 blue yetis to test any panels with. I have panels. But my solar project will be a long time, as I work slowly. Still useful information, even if not exactly pertinent to my scenario.
a volt meter for 10 dollars should do the trick, just without battery % and fancy curves
but i would not go for the battery % anyway
If you're in AZ with np obstructions to the east
, definitely get some auto or manual tracking. I get nearly full power by 8-9 am cause the air is clear and panels are cool. Not so in afternoon. Though. Tracking helps a lot, especially with a small system.
Working on the same test now lol. Nice!
@@rodneyhunt Nice! Looking forward to your results
Great side by comparison. Now try it on a Sunny and with reflective insulation (used for windows insulation) set at an angle on the ground, so that at noon it reflects back to the solar panels). This should greatly increase its energy production.
Cool, fun teat man! Would love to see results on a mostly sunny day. And try to get the wires out of the way so theyre not partially shading the back side
Need to get the bottom edge off the ground to get reflection. Try 12 inch increases.... up to 3 ft
I’d be curious to see what happens if the vertical panel is facing south (like the sloped panel)?
specially because this 400w bifacial only produces 100w on the backside
(a 550w = 200w )
sun beating strait down is 22 miles to space, where as sideways will be hundreds or even thousands of miles of atmosphere .....i have 15 panels on the side of my 2 story and late afternoon is very in-efficient .....my roof panels kick their ass
The way I look at it so long as the cost is low enough it enables solar collection in spaces that would otherwise be unutilized
This would be really interesting to see with both panels on a tracking base
Where did you get info that the vertical would be more efficient? I've only seen info that it was more efficient than previously thought due to the increased cooling, not that it was more efficient than horizontal.
Walk around that privacy fence in your yard. Count the loose nails in the East/West facing boards. Now count the loose nails in the North/South facing boards. If bifacial panels vertical East/West is the more efficient installation orientation compared to traditional Southern facing with appropriate tilt, racking solutions are going to have to be a whole lot more robust and aluminum will never, ever be a racking construction material option. The nice thing about vertical is that snow loads are no longer any sort of concern. The not-so-nice thing is that increased wind loads and and constantly changing pressures are concerns currently completely unaddressed by any racking method.
Be careful with that lawnmower too😂.
Of course when you are closer to the equator the vertical panel will do lower production when the sun is directly overhead, so location is calculated in when determining proper angle if you are designing a system to hit it's peak at noon, and even then only if your primary concerns is the minimum solar panels to hit that peak.
Wasabout to sey up my begginer solar array next week and had planned on verticle with 8 550 watt bifacials. Now I'm rethinking things??? I live in Canada in a very cold winter zone. Thanks for sharing and peace.
i get bifacial for same price as mono
it only produces 200w on the backside a 550w bifacial
so facing the back to the sun makes little sense
but to catch reflection and early and late sun it makes sense no matter where you are , no doubt
even on a roof if you let some light between the panels you pick up reflection...
he is doing this test with a 400w bifacial that only produces 100w on the backside
so the panels also matters for the resaults
you need a bifacial that produces the same on each side to beat anything in a east west senario
and it is probetly cheaper to glue 2 normal panels together then
Go vertical, that 4.4kw will pass 5.5 kw with snow and sun. Never clean snow off a panel ever again ,sleep in wake to a full charge. JAsolar 550w?
@@Hansen710 and 2 normal panels could be tilted in an A-fashion for wayyyy better radiation angle towards the sun then a single bifacial.
@@bobmonztr Yes JA solar 550watt Blue 3.0 I believe
@@HartFarmsGenetics I just got 6 black silver, maybe do a test in 2 days, modifying the mount before connecting
Yes do more test
I also thought of this test
I want to make one vertical east/west One vertical south/north and one conventional south facing 10°
Huh. Wonder if/when dirt depreciation comes into effect? The vertical should not lose much compared to a slope.
I would like to see how well the vertical panel does with you moving it occasionally to face the direction of the sun. Enjoyed your video.
backside of a vertical panel does not produce the same as the front
a 550w produces 200w on backside, and 400w only 100w
so to get the most out of this test you need the right panels
@@Hansen710 Yes I know. I own 2 bi-facial panels from EcoFlow and they produce betweenn 245 to 270 and are 220w panels.
I was just curious of the panel that was vertical as to how well it would have done for the duration of the day.
I would like to see the vertical panel sitting in the centre of a white floor say 16' x 8'. Maybe a white fence perpendicular on its north side.
I would also like to see identical battery systems. These two batteries are different sizes, they run different chemistries, and have different charge times.
If you want to supply another AC200L be my guest! 2000wh VS 2048wh is pretty negligible and they are both Lifepo4. It's as close as it's going to get from this little channel.
@@SmitHVAC. Well at least do the same test twice, while switching the batteries in the second test to prove the differences are not creating a variance larger than the 2.4% difference in battery size itself.
the only real world condition which bifacial would be better is mounted above snow vertically, or where reflections can hit more
Test again, please, but this time test both panels in a vertical orientation, one with the front facing west, the other with the front facing east. The back of the Bifacial panels are not as efficient, but if you have half of your panels facing in opposite directions, you will average out the downsides.
What you are then looking to compare to are the two panels facing south.
The efficiency gains are in part due to lower temps of the panels for vertical systems, and if your inverter/mppt system maxes out during the hottest part of the day, this trades maxing out the panels at noonish for a longer span of time for collecting sunlight.
This will depend on your setup, of course, so if you don't have enough panels to max out your inverter/mppt, you will probably not see as much benefit.
It does mean you can add some more panels to your system to charge your batteries over a longer period of time.
@@NdxtremePro I just did a vertical east west VS north south, check my channel!
@@SmitHVAC. I just watched it, cool vid, but I left the same suggestion there, a E/W vid with one each panel front facing each direction.
It would give you numbers to work with in either direction, let you see if there are differences, and you can add the numbers together to see what an array like that could produce.
Maybe you can use south facing mirrors angled to get more sun on bifacial solar panels.
maybe you can get a cheap mylar heat emergency blanket and make a reflector for the bifacial solar cell to get light reflect on both sides of the panel.
@travismoore7849 not a bad idea, I might have one actually
Good test
You are welcome to come out to my place here in AZ and run the test again, we have 360 days of Blasting💥Lazer-hot sun from 5am to 7pm😂
adding reflection and the suggested hight to the bificial should add a bit...
and the back does not produce the same as the front side, im not sure east/west position is where you gain most in many cases...
my 550w only produce 200w on the backside, and those 400 w probetly produce 100W on the backside
so the back side should probetly not be facing any sun
it is probetly better to catch more or less only reflection and early sun with backside
high north i would think a direct south is best
because of the short winter days and low sun that moves at a shorter path
and so far i havent seen any real vertical test in equator
Unfair with cloud cover. Interesting! how about a mix of Vertical and Slope. The temperature will be less on the vertical. The vertical will not hold dust or snow.
I am setting up a ground array with 3-370W panels. I will be running these into my Mega 3 from Oupes. I will need to run about 40-50 ft of wiring to get into the house where Oupes is. What is best wire to use?
I use 10 gauge wire from Signature solar. It comes in multiple different lengths. signaturesolar.com/pv-wire-50-ft-10-gauge-copper-30-amp-black-red/?ref=_KvVrzchAclARI&srsltid=AfmBOoqphhPA5KPWsRYAvZgscQa6MeqS3W9LlpXr22wxFy7M5GZv8uSJ
@@SmitHVAC. Thanks, I am a wholesale distributor for them. I'm new to solar and just getting set up. Installed 2 EG4 hybrid mini splits recently in my 2 garages.
@brianwluxevovacations215 10 gauge is overkill but it leaves you room to upgrade and bigger is better to eliminate voltage loss
The power stations are blocking light on the rear of the verticle panel. A shadow on one part of the panel affects the entire panel. I don't know how much, but it leaves the question. Oh, you moved it to the tilted panel, so the question then applies to the tilted panel. How much of the bifacial (rear-facing gain) has it decreased (compared to tilting it with something less light blocking). If the panels were monofacial, it wouldn't be a factor.
I would be interested in a SE and SW orientation (granted this doesn't apply to bifacial panels).
I've arranged mine in SE (~60 degrees), S (~45 degrees), SW (~60 degrees) and horizontal directions. (Angles are from horizontal). They're highly vertical because of space limitations (and beginner's strategy); the panel orientations are a compromise to serve yearly operation (Ohio) (south panel angle will change for winter, spring-fall, and summer). I also will get shading from trees (except in winter and late spring/early summer).
4x100W panels (not bifacial) are wired in parallel (each manually switched to avoid voltage pull-down); 100W Harbor Freight Thunderbolt PWM charge controller; 10A fuse from the panels to the charge controller (only connected to 3 panels); controller has a total of 400W connected panels, and has not burned up. 2x12Vx140 minute reserve capacity flooded deep cycle batteries (older condition); 12V system.
Sunny days are OK, struggles to collect charge on overcast days.
Not surprising but I was hoping the vertical had a little more stuff.
@@offgridwanabe me too!
@@SmitHVAC. it does tell me the advantage of a tracker.
@@user-dd2jg6kv8y are we sure its not in the northern part of the world it works best with vertical ?
a university in nederland tested 3 % gains with vertical panels
the sun is lower in the sky in the northen part of the world, so would the vertical angle not be better and more direct in the north then at equator where the sun is comming from above the panel in a not so direct angle ??
i also think you need to think of the use of the space that becomes avalible
solar farmig is a good way to get alot more out of a area with vertical panels
we can combine food production better with vertical panels, in some cases solar farming also uses 1/4 of the water
thanks to the shade it can provide
and in your garden you would have more space and room for more panels
personally i enjoy the shade my vertical panels gives my crappy neighbour, that part also have some value 🤫
i have them on top of eachother so it becomes a 4m wall 😆(i can tilt mine and choose the angle i want )
Actually I like the day's conditions since that is realistic, sadly.
Subbing for the Rudan Bros
Absolutely retest.
69% nice
The vertical panel should be oriented to face to the south.
@@eugenereilly4410 No, not for this test
Bi-facial panels, mounted vertically, make a little sense in an area with snow on the ground. Other than that, stick with what we have known for decades.
Inver price
Not the greatest test, you could have gone to a park or open field. Or just put the flat panel on top of your pergola. Nevertheless great idea for the test but poor execution.
@@jorgef70 Yea I'm going to go sit in a park for 13 hours and babysit my solar panels and Bluettis so nobody takes them 😂
It’s really dumb to compare a vertical solar panel to a horizontal one when Sun is striking the vertical one and shade is striking the horizontal one. Just for that reason alone whatever numbers you would’ve received in your test, they are horribly skewed from reality. Anybody who has any logical thinking could see that you started off your test horribly wrong if there were no obstructions both panels would’ve received Sun. You didn’t even mention whether panels were aligned to south. And when I meet south, I mean, solar south not magnetic south. Like I said, your idea was a good one to do this test, but your execution was piss poor.
@@jorgef70 Yet the horizontal panel still had better results, even though it was shaded. Like I said in the video, it's a real world test working with what I've got. My yard is the space I have to set up panels and make power, what they can make out in a field means nothing to me. Thanks for the view anyway.
@@SmitHVAC.😂 Don't pay him no mind. He works in a lab (in the basement)... So real world where people live is foreign to him LMAO
Thanks for the effort! I'd like to see the test arranged where they both get approx same sun, e.g. not partial shade from roof, fence, shed, etc, if at all possible. Could also test once with primary vertical face to the afternoon sun, vs. Morning sun. Fun!