CRC Pastor with Jordan Peterson on CS Lewis, the Resurrection, his Biblical series,
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- I want to thank Josh / @gaspingfortruth for giving me his time.
We had a wonderful time talking about a number of things. I hope you all enjoy the talk as much as I did.
0:00 Paul’s introduction
3:33 Peterson to release Easter video
5:30 The line between Christians and Atheists
6:45 Peterson & Lewis aren’t the same, but thats fine
8:22 On Synchonicity & Jesus/Resurrection
12:30 Discussing MoM and the individual
13:50 Multiplicity of Christ story and it’s interconnectedness
16:50 Colossians, Creation 2.0 & N.T Wright
18:33 Presenting lost souls with certainty is not going to work
20:23 We have to act out the meaning of the resurrection and time bend
25:25 We don’t understand time, the watchers reach out to Paul
27:20 If you can understand something a resolution can emerge
31:05 How does one conserve and amplify the light of consciousness?
34:25 Paul laughs as the Buddha did with his fan.
36:00 We need to understand as well as remember
36:55 Fear of God is the beginning of Wisdom
Thank you Mutedplum
I would've humiliated him in front of his audience, asking him if he believes in child murder and a human sacrificing man-god who begets himself as his own child and then murders his own child?
christianity is worse than satanism and paganism. Because none of the pagans ever attributed a child to the Creator of the world and then said that He murders it in a sacrificial ritual instead of lambs in order to end the sacrifice of cattle as christians have told me many times. They didn't even attribute such evil to their jinn devil gods. Instead, they sacrificed men for their gods. So which religion is worse if you ponder over it? The one who attributes such evil to God and a Prophet, or the one who doesn't attribute such evil to their own gods.
Thus one of the "founding fathers" of the united snakes, considered christianity to be no different than the pagan religions of the jungle:
Thomas Payne said:
_"christian authors exclaim against the practice of offering up human sacrifices, which, they say, is done in some countries; and those authors make those exclamations _*_without ever reflecting that their own doctrine of salvation is founded on a human sacrifice. They are saved, they say, by the blood_*_ of Christ. The christian religion begins with a dream and ends with a murder."_
[The Republican, Volym 9 by W. T. Sherwin, Richard Carlile p. 441 - Thomas Paine's Ideas Regarding Death "A letter to Andrew Dean"]
Maalik Islam Sure. Tired old sophomoric Athiest talking points that you think are smart are going to do him in. If you think that would be a gotcha for him you both have no idea how much MORE he has thought about this than you and are blind to the fact that there is a reason that he is exploded the way he has where no other professor of Christian values has been able to in decades.
Take your YT channel and start making videos with your "never been heard before" points and show the world how you are smarter than this man if you truly believe so, otherwise you are just another self important, resentful bag of hot air in the YT comments.
*+Stochastic24* Stochastics is a good technical indicator, if not the best of them (if that is what you mean by your name). Because I remember it back in the days when I used to trade the futures. But then I left it as it is not allowed to short in Islam. Because you're selling that which you do not own, and thus helping to facilitate the usury essentially. Because the commodity is not being moved nor is any of the buyers taking hold of it and then reselling it, only digital things being traded and hence it is not a real trade taking place.
An example, let's say that someone wants to buy an iphone for 100 dollars and you know that someone is selling it for 90$. If you do not take possession of the iphone by buying it from the first seller and then taking it to your own camp, and then re-selling it. If that doesn't happen, but instead you make an ad with the price of 90$ without possessing the iphone in your camp i.e., similar to dropshipping - then the matter becomes usurious as you've bought 100$ of currency with the same 90$.
For example, if you have one ounce of gold, and with it, you buy two ounces of the same gold. Or you have 1 dollar and you buy with it 2 dollars, then that is usury of excess called (Riba al-Fadl). And that is what happens in those trades as no one is actually taking possession of the commodity itself.
And also other rules mentioning the impermissibility to trade such securities ever since I got the knowledge of Islam. And also obvious margin loan of the brokers which is usurious in nature
But the trick with it was to wait and have the patience for the Vix to either go up or down. And once that happens, then the opposite will happen for the index, whether it be the s&p or the dow or nasdaq who follow one another exactly. And I so created an indicator that used to show me when the index and the vix (implied volatility) crosses one another, and then you wait for the stochastic and other indicators to also kick in. And it was very successful. Because it was robots doing the trading as the quants programming the codes for the big institutions have similar entry and exit signals in general.
I was a non-discretionary trader who used to write my own codes that would generate signals, and they were pretty successful.
I shared with folks in my family and at church, that, Jordan Peterson is indirectly bringing people to Christ without his knowing. They chewed me out. Not the response I was expecting. I just think it’s fascinating that this is taking place, and that intelligent pastors such as yourself see it as a blessing in disguise. Jordan Peterson is entering a spiritual battle inadvertently via an intellectual battle in the flesh, he will eventually have to grow in the spirit, and quite quickly, for it can and will become overwhelming. I seldom pray for psychologist, but I pray for Jordan Peterson. God Bless Ya Pastor.
I don't know that this blessing is disguised. Anyone who reads the comments to my videos, and those of Jonathan Pageau, and JBP's (the signal to noise in his comments is lower) can't help but see that men and women are looking again at Christ and his church after listening to JBP. Where will this go? "Gawd only knows..." Is it a blessing? Yes. I am a pastor. I am called to 'feed my sheep". Well, it seems pretty clear. You don't have to agree with JBP. You don't have to believe he's a Christian. The fields are white with harvest. Ask the Lord to send out workers... And what did Jesus tell his disciples about what to do with the unauthorized exorcist? leave him alone.
If you want to kvetch about all sorts of things that Peterson says, fine. But "you will know them by their fruits". I've seen much good fruit as a result of what he's done. I'm going to continue to play a roll in that harvest if i can.
Yeah, for you to get chewed out for pointing that out is dysfunctional and weird. You want to say "Bro do you even natural light? Do you even common grace bro?"
That being said I know JBP still needs Jesus so I am rooting for that.
Paul VanderKlay I'm glad you addressed this! Your comparison to the unauthorized excercism is spot on. In my opinion Peterson is doing just as he explained, presenting the stories in a psychological way, he knows they are true on so many levels, but he is humble in presenting them from the position of his own expertise. That just happens to be a position in which mass numbers need to hear the story from. There are three perfect positions to present the truth from as in our triune God. 1. Logic, or creative Conscious thought (God the father). 2. The Holy Spirit, or pure good emotional motivation. 3. The physical manifestation of God's conscious thought as motivated by the holy spirit (Christ).
I believe the church tells the story from position 2 (spirit). Peterson and others tell it from position 1(logic). And I have yet to find a mainstream personality or institution telling the story from position 3(physical). However, many martial arts seem to be the closest. Self sacrifice of the body. Humble submission to that which is, and a duty to remain meek. (Those skilled with sword but keep them sheathed). If the three could be aligned it would be, Mind brought to God through logic, soul brought to God through the holy spirit, body brought to God through Christ.
I agree with you that the 3rd position is largely missing. I am starting to see intimations of it with contemplative prayer movements that imagine Jesus's physical body and how he was on the earth. Also with people like Dr. Dan Allender who are psychologists that talk a lot about Christianity being "embodied." Also I see a huge movement toward health, wellness, holistic living, and even fitness in the body (ironic) of Christ. Even personally I can attest to my own healing in my soul and mind resulting in an intense desire to be physically strong, eat better and just generally know God better with my physical senses.
hervor33 it's funny, even the CrossFit movement is almost religious in people's devotion to it and their willingness to proclaim it as their vehicle of transcendence
Christians should appreciate the good works Dr. Peterson is doing, and stop trying to put him in box or convert him in some evangelical way. Appreciate the man for who he is. That is what we need to do. He is bringing peope to the bible. Thanks for this.
Hi Paul, could I recommend you check out Rabbi Tovia Singer's channel on RUclips? I think you would appreciate his knowledge of Hebrew scripture at the least.
nah" why rush it? of course it takes time, i wanna see the process ;)
God blessed us with all of Petersons Journey. He recorded every moment, every stage of growth, we get to see Jordan Petersons wrestling match with God. His journey aided me many times in my own..
FINALLY, congrats Paul
This was a nice change of pace because it was so much more casual, and Jordan slowed down. It was nice to see him in a reflective mood, to witness him thinking. I believe you’ve added a needed dimension to this whole phenomenon, Paul.
Excited to hear he wants to make the biblical series his priority, if everything goes right it will undoubtedly be his life’s work.
Alec Neino
....and praying for His encounter with the one and ONLY true and living GOD, I AM, Jesus Christ/Yeshua Hamashiach, for His salvation!!! The logos is Jesus Christ, the WORD made flesh, Immanuel, GOD with us.
Blessings to you all in JESUS MOST HOLY name!
Paul, I really enjoy your in depth analysis of Jordan Peterson's content. Dr. Peterson tends to speak in a highly condensed manner and it is truly valuable to have someone unpack it in depth from an educated and informed perspective.
Thank You!
Good point. The best interviews/conversations with Peterson have unpacked the things that Peterson says all the time but gives us some novel way of understanding the highly condensed meanings.
If you have a hard time penetrating JP's language, I would strongly recommend checking out his "Maps of Meaning" lectures on his channel (pick a year, I like the early ones, but the production quality is way better in the more recent ones).
The lecture series is based on his first book, which in turn is based on his doctoral thesis. It serves as the basis of his philosophy and becoming fluent with the ideas and terminology he lays out there makes understanding the rest of his work much easier.
Love the hearing this conversation. What is in Dr. Peterson’s wake is he has given himself permission to be honest with reality. He doesn’t let himself off the hook...he’s seeking after true truth...I believe when any human is honest with themselves and reality ... coupled with being is a seeker of truth...The Sovereign Lord is seeking that soul.
Jesus said: “Ask and it shall be given, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened unto you.”
I am confident...if Dr. Peterson is indeed as honest in his seeking of Truth (as he appears to be)...he will end up aligned with The WORD / The Way, the Truth, the Life. GOD is faithful...
This is what I see in him too - I read the book reviews Paul posted and the reviewers seem to think that Peterson has stopped learning, that his book and other things he has written are now concrete that has set - I see a man who is always thinking and always open to revision if someone presents him with reasoned argument based on solid evidence....
Edward Smith / Yes...I totally agree with you. I think Dr. Peterson is deeply thoughtful. He listens and thinks with his whole being. He is quite open to learning from others. I respect him. I see him listening carefully...This attribute makes him a fit person for discussion, conversation and debate. I have observed him absorbing the thoughts and perceptions of others in an extremely respectful manner and he loves to find points of agreement.
I loved his response about people calling him courageous... “I am more afraid of the alternative”. This is so true...”The truth will set you free.” What I observe in Dr. Peterson is a sincere human being. One who is willing to slog it out in the trenches of life. His intense humble honesty is striking a chord that many people are finding themselves resonating with. I am very thankful that GOD has raised Dr. Peterson up to sound the trumpet...to sound the alarm. I pray for him and I believe all those who love the Lord should be praying for him. He is taking it on the chin and his back is up against the wall. May we be faithful in love to pray for and care for someone like Dr. Peterson, who cares enough for humanity to stand in the gap.
Lewis and Peterson difference is the conviction of faith , you made him thinking deeply at that question ! 38 minutes is too short but i truly felt JP like you , i wont be surprise he’ reach you eventually
The Deep honesty of a true Seeker is overwhelming
Man JP is looking better and better. Praying for your health and well-being!
I noticed that, too. He was so brave to keep Lecturing when he was going through that hard shift in his health. It has been inspiring to watch his courage.
This video is from two years ago? So I presume after he stopped eating vegetables and before he flew to Russia to seek treatment for drug addiction?
As much as he doesn’t compare himself to C.S Lewis I can imagine that this might be a glimpse into how Clive’s conversations would have been like with Tolkien.... what a treat to have this on RUclips... I really hope you get another chance to speak with him... I’ve been trying to figure out how I can get a book into his hands called Leading Lawyers look at the Resurrection by Ross Clifford. Hopefully God will make it happen if it’s his will.
What an absolute gift this was today.
What a wonderful sight seeing two of my heroes having a chat like this. Really feels like we got to see what's at the forefront of Peterson's mind here. What sorta problems he's wrestling with. Fascinating!
This is one of the better Peterson video. He is really getting at the points ithat a super JBP fan are interested - the meta-narrative of what JBP is doing and how it will ripple through society and the ages.
Actually I think ALL of his videos are equally "better". I honestly can't pick which one's my favorite... You should check out where he discussed with Joe Rogan about science and religion. The way he explains it makes so much sense that it's incredible.
I have watched both of those several times :) I have pretty much watched every single interview JBP has done, (no joke and listened to every podcast, and haven't missed an article picked up by google or twitter in the last 1.5 years). I haven't listen to all his lectures but I have watched everything he posted since he burst on the scene in Sept 16. Re-listened to much of it too.
That's why I really appreciate that Pastor Paul was able to ask him the type of question he did. Also, you could tell Peterson really was at ease - the look on his face when he consented to the Pastor sharing it - it was classic. Peterson has said he would prefer all of his 1v1s not ending up on RUclips (he already has to watch what he says as it is) but obviously this needed to be posted!
I would recommend his Duncan Trussel interview but my favourite of all of them is easily his first Transliminal interview. A lot of big words, and it reveals I am a big epistemology nerd, but it really gets into my core belief, that science and religion are complementary systems, serving (almost) completely different functions (but obviously need to be combined when acting in the world)..
Is that right. It's only been a couple weeks since I came across his videos and I have been watching his videos ever since.. I haven't seen the video recommend so thank you for recommending it. I'll check it out for sure.
The Joe Rogan interviews, the talk he did at the Ottawa Public Library w/ Q&A, and one he did w/ Faith Goldie helping host were all stand out favourites of mine, also his poem on "Is this a picture of Mohamed?". A channel called Sorting Myself Out has 2 short compilation clips of Peterson mannerisms brilliantly strung together, one is called, "Jordan Peterson on Cocaine", hilarious stuff. Oh, and his diner from hell clip from on of his biblical story lectures could have been stand up, but still deep and wise.
"Truthful dialogue is curative" Roger that Dr. Peterson. I've listened to many of his talks and also his daughters' podcasts and I'm a better person (especially to myself) because of the remarkable insights he has into the human condition. Glad to be aboard your ship, Paul. To those who have ears to hear ... In gratitude and love, Carol
I was waiting for this moment with you two for months!!!
This was a lovely and candid conversation with an unarmed Dr. Peterson (he seem very relaxed). Thank you for sharing. I'll keep praying that the Good Lord guides us through this journey toward a more vivid and comprehensive restructuring of the truth.
It all doesn't make sense, but at the same time it feels right, intellectually. It's like when you intuitively know something, but don't know why you know it.
Story of my life lol
I'm excited to hear Peterson is reading N. T. Wright. I hope we see his thoughts on them in the future.
Yes, this was a huge takeaway from the conversation. Don't get too excited about this because remember he's looking at the Bible psychologically.
Yep, so close but yet so far. A bit Gnostic in belief but a smart, compassionate guy we need in society.
Although I agree with you to listen to what he says his approach will be, I cannot help but hold onto the very firm grip of hope for the Spirit of Christ to come pouring through every page declaring His bodily resurrection and Lordship, as well as every moment JP spends in pursuit of Truth. He's knocking and seeking. Those, as Jesus reminded us, always lead to an opened door.
My idea of why people are interested in Christianity after listening to Jordan Peterson -- he discusses the topics, examines what they mean. Which is unique and different from both a normal atheistic and Christian perspective. Most "true believers" of both camps won't talk about what something means -- they just want to tell you the way it is, and you better believe it. Professor Peterson takes a look at difficult issues, is honest about his thinking (sometimes he certain, sometimes he's not, and you can tell he cares about the people caught in the problematic issues), and he doesn't just respond, "Think this way or you're wrong." I'm a Christian btw, but very few Christians are willing to discuss anything that is important. And I find I get put into many boxes of unbelief because I would like to figure out the implications of things and not just look up the answer and repeat that without discussion.
"We don't need to just remember, we also need to understand" he says, and I almost cried. My country needs that so badly right now.
This video finally pushed me over the edge into understanding and converting to Christianity, thank you both!!
Wow this comment is surreal God bless you
Well done Paul. A very good discussion. At a certain I got the feeling that you were actually getting him to open up on new subject matter. Excellent.
I'm so happy to see you two talk. I've been following Peterson for more than a year and yourself for maybe a couple of months and appreciate your perspective on Peterson so much. It seems to me his popularity is strategic in terms of God's ways, people's hearts are softening and their ears more willing to hear.
Well done, VanderKlay. Now that you've gotten your foot in the door, you have to set up a face-to-face interview with Peterson. He's going to be in Sacramento on June 27th.
Paul, thank you so much for wringing out of this man, for all of us, some radically NEW Jordan Peterson. He's in there somewhere, underneath the piles of his newest book. You going into this conversation, both understanding him and bringing your own challenges to him, made this video great and raised my esteem for you both. Thank you.
It was far, far, far too short.
DUDE!!!! Small world!!!! Gonna listen now! Happy for you, JP and for us!
I think this is the only time Dr. Peterson has spoken about the metaphysical in an honest and open way. The stuff he can't talk about in academic circles. I can talk all day about it.
“We need to understand, not just remember”
He has a journal article on this:
Peterson, J.B. & Djikic, M. (2003). You can neither forget nor remember
what you don’t understand. In G.R. Ricci (Ed.). Justice and the Politics of
Memory (Religion and Public Life, Vol. 33). (pp. 85-118). London:
Transaction.
Thanks David, I didn't know about "Justice and the Politics of Memory" Sounds like a keeper.
I didn't see the title of that journal until I had pasted the link. It is certainly a strange title.
+David Herrera:
A strange title for strange days. Now I'm really gonna find it. Thanks
I'm looking for his journal articles.
I just found:
Thus Spoke Jordan Peterson
A wildly popular psychologist’s self-help program is leading young men to authoritarianism.
By David Livingstone Smith and John Kaag
which is actually pretty funny in how they mischaracterize him as just whipping up the insecurities of "white men" feeling like they are being displaced from social prominence by women and minorities and try to bring in how Peterson cries when talking about some of the people that come to him about their lives have been radically changed and they try to spin it like he is trying to manipulate them.
That’s great, Paul. Finally! Looking forward to watching it. Congrats!
Great Paul. Congrats! Exciting that he’ll be putting out a resurrection video. Can’t wait, and am enjoying this a ton too. Thanks.
Wow! I almost can't believe it. Paul, so great that you had this conversation with Dr. Peterson and showed us that two really busy popular people can still find time to sit down and have a chat about important stuff without trying to outsmart one another. Hope you get a chance to interview him next time so you can talk longer.
Peterson said "We don't know anything" Boy, I hear that! Nice conversation Paul & Jordan
Thank you Paul, Thank you Jordan, this was another amazing discussion.
Paul, I have loved your videos, they have really helped me understand as well as ask hard questions. You were the driving force behind me reading four or five c.s. Lewis books in the last couple months. I have recommended you to pastors and buddies. I have been dreaming of an opportunity like this for you, but I felt like this interview left most of the questions you have had unanswered. I really hope you get more, and regular, opportunities to do interviews with JBP, and I hope you get a chance to answer some of your questions. Thank you for all your hard work
I am fanboying so hard right now
At last you two got together! I have been following both....excellent real chat - the way people actually talk
awesome!
Go clean your room!
Hey! It's everyone's favorite content thief!
Might as well make a buck without even linking to the source!
Ink Ognito I don't know what you guys are talking about. I've checked a lot of the full lenghted talks that he posted and they do have the original source in the description. I think he makes a great job in tracking all the appearances of JPB. Who in their rightful mind would think that the clips on his channel are his is beyond my understanding. As long as he is spreading prof Jordan's wisdom with credit (and he does have a considerable following), I don't see any harm in what he is doing.
I think the thing is that he (or she) doesn't editorialise in any way, doesn't post excerpts of the most profound portions, doesn't do any work of their own. Their entire channel is based on just reuploading literally every Jordan Peterson appearance that surfaces online. Every. Single. One. Typically within hours of the original being posted. Immediately ripped and reuploaded, no creative input of any kind whatsoever, just the minimum effort necessary to get the mirror posted ASA fucking P. I mean everyone knows that the audience generally watches these interviews and discussions very soon after they're posted, so if the reuploader isn't quick, then all of those views are going to go to the actual content creator, instead of being siphoned off to someone else so they can profit at the original creator's expense.
Thanks (Vanderklay and Josh) for this video.
The existence of this conversation just made my week.
Doubt on purpose is a concept I have never considered before. It's good to see a fresh and powerful mind look at Christianity. Dr. Peterson's perspective is very helpful. He adds such respect to doubt. Who would have thought respect and doubt can be friends?
Having read, I think, at least 95% of everything CS Lewis published, and much of it several times, I believe I am qualified to say that Lewis would appreciate Peterson's effort to get at the truth. Lewis' leap of faith started from a recognition that the "myth" of God becoming a man was realized in the person of Jesus, whom Lewis famously said left you no choice but to accept or deny his claims of being God incarnate. I suppose many who call themselves "Christian" would like for Peterson to make the "leap" across the gap he has walked right up to the edge and describes better than any living Christian I am aware of. On one side of the gap is the necessity of recognizing man as a spiritual being, knowing right and wrong, capable of good and evil, and the logical consequences of this in regards to making choices, understanding our place in the universe and directing our lives. The other side is the evidence of being a product of an extremely long ongoing physical/chemical process that contributes a great deal of information to who we are and how we think. The men who have recognized the importance of this dilemma and have struggled to answer the problems it causes are the brilliant minds whose work Peterson has attempted to deconstruct. I believe his recognition of how difficult a problem this poses has allowed him to follow the arguments these people made, and as a result make more sense of where they ended up and how to take advantage of their efforts. Like it or not, Peterson is the locus of a new cosmology, and will take a place among the Descartes' and Kants' in the history of philosophy. There will be no ignoring his claims.
Whatever Peterson is, I thank God for his ability to help me put a ton of the pieces to the jigsaw puzzle I've been working on in their correct place, particularly regarding post modernism and Marxist ideology. And I have been thoroughly entertained by the attempts of SJWs in the media to try and "define" him. I think Solzhenitsyn would be lol.
To the atheists who might be reading this, my own conversion to Christianity was not intellectual, but best described as a rescue offered when I was going down the drain. I came to believe the claims of Jesus as a result of a "personal revelation", I guess best described as an awareness of His existence and the undeniable realization God had some interest in me when it made little sense for that to be the case.
So if God is saying something to you. . . you might ask yourself why He would bother, and what it means.
B
Russell Stein, Because God loves mankind, his creation. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son that who ever believes (accepts and receives what Jesus did on the cross for each person personally) in him shall not perish but have everlasting life"John 3:16
Russell Steen Ain't Grace great?😊
I always think of this, I was a young boy 16 years old, and pretty tough, but then a big log roll on my body, and I was like a bag, my right side was pretty squish my right side arm was broken, but I survived it, and the doctors told me, that there had been nothing more than 1% of life in me, so how is that possible, if there is no God, it simply isn't. I'm very very thankful, thank the Lord, and I'm still happy today.
Russell, wonderful comment. You nailed it.
I love JP, but comparing him with Descartes...?
This made my day, really glad I got to see you two talk. Seemed really natural. The laid back and honest tone of the talk was excellent.👌
Congrats Paul. Long time coming.
Its only 11 minutes and I feel expanded and a force going through me, this video is magic
The bit about institutions was an excellent question. I, too, have wondered, “What now?” I know he doesn’t want “followers” to become overly focused on him, but I could see clubs or casual groups popping up all over to support each other in “cleaning our rooms” as well as to discuss how do we, as believers in the founding principles of western society, come together to discuss and implement much-needed change in society. How do we become part of the healing. While the obvious answer may seem to be “that’s what churches are for,” can there be something else? I dunno, random thoughts...
I'm a person who formerly identified as an atheist. I don't have an apt label for my beliefs now. Jordan Peterson redeemed the biblical stories for me. He said two things that resonated with me 1) Receiving contradictory information doesn't mean you have to throw the baby out with the bathwater. You can update the truth to integrate what is coherent between new and old information. 2) It's imperative to rescue your father from the belly of the beast.
My dad is an assistant pastor so I grew up in a Christian home. But when I ran up against the contradictions between scriptures and science I began to think very reductively. It didn't help that the religious tradition of my upbringing was very literalist/fundamentalist. From a literal point of view the scriptures are quite easy to reduce to ancient explanations made by people with a poor understanding of the material world. And even from a metaphorical point of view scriptures seem arbitrary.
But Dr. Peterson presents scriptures from the archetypal point of view coupled with a Darwinian point of view. Now I appreciate the struggle that the scriptures describe of people working out the proper way to live. No small task. And I now think of myself in a greater context, a recipient of inherited knowledge that is not easily reducible to one thing or another. Even if my dad wouldn't articulate the significance of the scriptures and their importance in Western Civilization the same way I do, I feel as if I've rescued my father's values from the belly of a cultural beast that feeds on ignorance, reductionism, and resentment.
Finally! First I watched today his talk with the Australian politician John Anderson and was deeply impressed. Now this! Congrats.
Martin Wisser / Wasn’t that interview with Australian, John Anderson, amazing?!
It was and it knocked me down, so to speak, and although I'm way too old for being a fan boy I just have to use a stereotype here - he was so much the archetypal wise king there... (to be honest, both appeared this way, but I don't know enough to continue this thought). And even if this little irony must appear disrespectful. He has finally grown up - or so :)
Martin Wisser / I totally loved the interview with John Anderson. Both men were real men! It is a great thing to be able to feel admiration and respect for fellow human beings! My spouse and I talked about it this morning (after he listened)...We concluded...such conversations create / generate hope.
“It is a great thing to be able to feel admiration and respect for fellow human beings.” Indeed. And to see this is somehow relieving and it creates respect as well and this feeling is liberating also, a strange story.
Paul , this is amazing , I am so happy that you got this interview with Dr. Peterson. I can tell you both loved this interchange.
May the Lord continue to bless you in every way. You are doing a great job. Keep it up.
Praise God that you both had this opportunity! I'm so excited for you both!
By the way...I love the fact that you mentioned Neil Postman’s book “Amusing Ourselves to Death”. It is extremely relative to what is going on with Dr. Peterson. When I read Postman’s book ... Man... it connected a lot of dots! It is a must read for everyone...Postman was quite prophetic ... a man way before his time.
Jordan, I pray that you accept Christ and stand up for him like a blazing lion! My husband and I love to listen to you speak and we love your book, and we are very eager for you to become a hardcore believer in Jesus.
Really enjoyed this. JP talks of how leaving one foot in doubt is possible attraction to those who church has failed to get traction with. This really struck me. Too often Christians act as if they have solid answers. We should be humble in our own abilities to understand and to convey God’s message. New to this channel. CRC member from IL. Thank you.
Great conversation. Two brilliant guys who always deliver with fantastic intellectual and philosophical content.
Who-hoo! Was this a Mickey Mantle and Joe DiMaggio combo? Peterson is so attune, even talking to a Patreon time slot allowance. It was special that you to were given that slot and well done. JP was nice to you as a Calvinist. His time disconnect explanation was a good bridge between sovereignty and responsibility. Sad many reformed pastors play it safe and ignore responsibility. Can you imagine a debate between JP and Tim Keller?
Not a debate, just a good conversation. :) Debates have their place but I think Peterson is a really good conversationalists, and so is Keller. It met Keller once in a small group situations, another great talker.
Paul, I do not think most reformed pastors have the openness you allow. I’m sure it would be a discussion, but I’m testing the reformed theological waters and would love to see Keller think on his feet if challenged about pure Calvinism. Perhaps he would prevail.
Paul, thank you very much for posting this and your other Jordan Peterson themed videos. I have found your perspective to be a great mirror to his work. It was great to see how warm the conversation was towards the end and I hope you have a chance to converse again.
Awesome Pastor! So happy for you! Btw. Us Catholic's love you both!
Full circle!! Congratulations, this is very exciting and I’m happy for you! As a Christian I’ve been dealing with the same questions as you and it’s been enlightening to follow your journey. Peterson is such a mysterious figure and have made such an impact in my life. But since we can’t put him in a box (and quite frankly he speaks the word better than some preachers) it’s been an exciting time as a Christian. Something is brewing and who knows what it is? We just have to keep searching I guess :-) Keep the ball rolling Mr Vanderklay!
I found the part where Jordan talked about time and its nature to be very interesting. It feels like his guard is down here, and he talks in terms that lean towards the mystical in a way I have not heard before. This excites me for some reason! I'm really glad that you got to have this conversation, Paul, it seemed like you both enjoyed it.
This is the first video i see of yours and when I heard you bring up N.T. Wright I exploded with joy, especially since Peterson said he would read The Resurrection of The Son of God. That was fantastic, that book is what pulled me over to making the final step towards Christianity. Wright is definitely one of my favorite writers, that four book series is awesome, great read.
This is probably the most enlightening dialogue I have yet heard with Peterson regarding his Christianity, and, unsurprisingly, accomplished without a tactless and direct inquisition about his religious status. Extremely encouraging as I read between the lines. Well done, sir!
As a Christian, I'm encouraged that Peterson is helping people to Christ by honestly examining his views. Although a Christian would be taking a step backward if they are looking to be spiritually fed by him, he's like a bridge that leads in the right direction for an atheist.
Well done my friend, one of the best conversations I’ve seen with Peterson.
Great conversation! My individual sovereignty salutes yours. Really enjoyed the ideas and tangents explored. It is a truly humbling experience to see Jordan put himself out there, shoulders back and standing straight, and open to learning and seeing him figure things out as he is talking about them, it's just amazing. He does that a often, but I think you gave him a lot of new things to think about in one exchange and it showed! Thanks for uploading :)
Nice conversation, Paul. I hope you two get to have another RUclips chat.
Great conversation. Jordan Peterson's insights into Christianity are fascinating. I really hope he continues with his series of biblical lectures.
More Power Dr JP!!! All the best from a Filipino legal alien in NZ🙏🌹😘❤️😇👏👏
Wow. I am dumbstruck at 23mins.
This Pastor is seriously open minded and chilled for of all things a Calvinist.
I'm going to have to sit down for a bit.
I dont think i've ever heard so much honest belly laughter from a calvinist.
again, wow.
This made my day much better!!
You seemed hesitant at first, maybe a little deferential, but you warmed and the conversation ran more smoothly. Peterson does emit a spark of charisma, nay? And the whole universe, both natural and metaphysical, concentrates when chasing the light.
It's so beautiful how Jordan is essentially sacrificing himself as well as parts of the message in order to retain his doubts and make the message digestible by people who have been turned away from God.
His doubts are why it works. Many Christians don't know how (or even worse, out of pride, won't) speak in the "atheist language" to those they deem non-believers.
His willingness to doubt equipped him with the language needed to communicate what the Bible teaches with success.
Love to you
Awesome conversation. I loved it. In my perspective, and personal experience, the "antidote" or opposite of nihilism is the embrace of Synchronicity. What I mean is that nihilism is the denial of all meaning, and embracing Synchronicity is the acceptance of the meanings of "meaningful coincidences", as they're generally referred to.
Fantastic, I like this sheepdog. I do not attend any church but I am seeking to be involved in charity work as my type of church. I have always reached out to people randomly, but need a more structured route to that end.
I think that scripture which says that God will pour out his spirit upon all of mankind is flowing our way!
There was a lot more dead air than I was expecting, but I think that was because Peterson had to think about what you were saying, so that is a good thing.
Very interesting conversation. Wish he would go watch your videos and then comment on them like you do on his. That would be fun!
So glad you two have met! I wanted same things that you and the pastor are discussing. Like N T Wright and his thoughts. Glad to have been introduced to him. I have never felt in my thirty years of knowing these truths like I do to hear this intectualy honest talk. It's rare.
It's been a while since I listened to this for the 1st time, good to revisit...... "it's a very tight line to walk (PAUSE) and people would rather it was easy..."
Great Dutch name!! My CREC minister brother and family lived in Pella, IA for about 9 years. NICE town and great Tulip Time festiva (now live in Maine, teacher/International Recruiter at Tri City Christian School in near Berwick, ME)! Thanks!!
This is such a cool interview! Thank you for asking such great questions!
JBP seen from a new angle, literally, and metaphorically.
Ry P
In his PJs? Buttocks flap included?
Love the Preachers Laugh! We need to laugh more.
I'm picking up serious hints of Fear and Trembling in what Peterson is talking about here, especially when he is talking about time, and the inevitability of the victory of Christ.
I was raised Pentecostal Assemblies of God but I am embarking on my own faith journey now and I see thing in Reformed tradition and also in Catholic tradition that really compel me.
For now, I am settling in to studying Kierkegaard and in the meantime just visiting different churches and communing with the Holy Spirit in the different contexts of His church, and perhaps there isn't a right church or right denomination, but only a right denomination for me.
this is my first video of yours. Having been a lifelong Christian, this faith crisis I find myself getting on to is just terrifying. But also -- having been a lifelong Christian, again -- i see what Peterson is doing for the Church and I see how he is introducing millions of young people like me to a sort of faith that we didn't even know was allowed.
I did not know I could even consider leaving my home church until Peterson introduced me to Soren via 2017 Personality 11 : Existentialism -ruclips.net/video/4qZ3EsrKPsc/видео.html
and now, because of Peterson, I understand the importance of knowing what I believe! before, I was living on borrowed faith. And now I know I must set out to find my own faith, wherever that leads me. And that's scary, man, cause that could be a descent into hell for me. That could be me giving up the promise, and from my understanding that is what SK wrote about in F&T when he was writing about the Knight of Faith and the Knight of Infinite Resignation.
but in any case, this video was a pleasure and a joy to watch, and I had been anticipating watching it for such time; the CS Lewis in the title hooked me, and this has been sitting on my to do list for months cause I just havent made the time, and I believe maybe that was the future influencing the past in some way because i know if i had watched this even three months ago I would have never understood it like I do now.
As I go on this journey, you, Paul, will be one of my top resources for Reformed doctrine and theology. I look forward to watching more from you about Peterson and especially about Existentialism.
Thank you and God bless you on all your endeavors!
P.S. what's the institution behind Peterson?
Ideally it is an existential revival, where every man is thinking for himself. that would end the culture war and bring us all together.
Wow Jordan's last statement was powerful "The Fear of The Lord is the beginning of Wisdom" Tell The Truth, The Creator demands it, Be A Servant, The Creator demands it,
All of Creation rests upon our obedience, we cannot completely understand why yet, but while we are here, We agree with God, we will understand when the time comes.
This is great, Vanderklay and Peterson together. Loved it, but I will have to watch it again. There is so much to unpack. And now I have more books to add to my reading list too.
Seek the truth
Perceive the truth
Speak the truth
Do and be the truth
None can defile this
I know you probably won't see this message Dr. Peterson, but if you read Lewis's Experiment in Criticism, Pilgrim's Regress, Surprised by Joy and some of his essays like "The Grand Miracle" you will see why he resonates with your ideas with such exceptional timbre. Lewis is obsessed with Myth and its communicative properties, and that permeates almost everything he put in print. If you want to see a story putting this to effect, read the dialogue between the Un-man and Ransom in Perelandra. Furthermore, so so so so many of your ideas about narrative/language and its ordering, meaning-making, value-instantiating properties coincide with Lewis's (see his essay "On Stories").
Yes yes yes! This is everything I was thinking. Not just a love of myth and story, but the deep reverence deserved for them (They are like the "beam" that Lewis describes light coming upon) , is a common bond with CSL and JBP. The way Lewis talks about the affect that listening to Wagner and reading "northern mythology" had in cultivating a hunger to recapture Joy, reminds me of moments that JBP has eluded to encounters of profound spiritual nature that he cannot explain.
Thank you for articulating it so well! Of course no one shall occupy the space in my heart that Lewis does (who is second to Christ and dark chocolate being third to Lewis, naturally) nevertheless JBP has found a spot and shall nestle there hereafter.
Truth is hard to swallow!!
It's very humbling (and sometimes scary) listening to Peterson and watching your videos, and realizing even more how little I know. Thank you. I should go to church soon.
Thank you God for Jordan Peterson
Great stuff Paul, enjoying this convo a lot.
I am a Christian who endeavours to use his mind in a way that glorifies God and can help others and also myself. I feel attracted to your ability to take some huge complex ideas and teachings both biblical and psychological and explain them in a way that opens them up in ways I never would have thought off and it has helped me to see these from very different angles. Truth will always be Truth and we will always fascinate ourselves as to what it means. For me Jesus is the truth but guys like Jordan are very curious as am I and it's scary to ask some questions (who knows what we might find), but he doesn't shy away. His interpretations are quite fascinating and I attract to his not shying away most just want to mock he gives us all a lot to think about from a human perspective but I also seek Gods perspective as he can also speak very well for himself and he is the source of all knowledge and intelligence as well as wisdom. God bless you Mr Peterson you go where others fear to and for that I tip my hat. Speak your truth boldly I got that from you.
Yes!!! That is why we as Catholics believe that we Are saved, are being saved, and ultimately hope to be saved when we die.
Wow, at first I was like "JBP takes his time to do interviews for "small channels", then by the end when you ask for his permission to post it my surprise went even higher, he was doing it just to have a conversation, making time in his schedule to talk to people. I pray he keeps this humility as he keeps growing.
OMG ... Awesome!!!
JP, around 8:00, you admitted just how I perceived your apprehension of the Bible, that you approach from a psychological perspective instead of an apologetic approach when conversing about it.
That is great for me hearing that straight from you, I will now have more than just mine only opinion in regards to you & the Bible.
Am just made happy, this means a lot to me.
Thanks Jordan
and for eveybody else, I'm sorry that i will not try to explain why this is important, it just is.
an intellectual inspiration, and focused on the main thing! Be aware of what needs to be understood in life. Fearing the right things is great advice. Thank you
I actually love that he refuses to put in box. when i was a kid people were very much against labels and judgment... or they said they were.... but now we all seem to be completely obsessed with handing out both for every stupid little thing.
I think it's incredibly wise of him to maintain this sense of mystery and distance (i also think it amuses the hell out of him how he confounds both sides...)
It also gives him a unique vantage point. I only took a few classes in psychology in high school and college. I still brush up on it occasionally just for fun(the reason i'm here actually) and i find it to be a useful field guide for surviving this crazy society... but for me that is a small scale education, just for use in my personal life. I can't imagine what it's like for him. He always looks and sounds so tired and just.....fed up. maybe even a little bewildered at how thick some people choose to be(which is the downside of studying psychology...sort of like people who study history are also forced to watch society repeat the same mistakes over and over)
At least he is taking his knowledge and putting it to good use. He is definitely reaching out and changing how people thing. it might be a small ripple but it will grow.
I have even shared his lectures...i warned my mom that "he won't admit to being a Christian or have any kind of religion... but he certainly isn't anti-religion. but that's not important. what is important is he has a LOT of great advice that anyone can use!" then i played her his video about people who are too lazy and useless to even use a self authoring program. "maybe you don't want a better life...maybe you think you don't deserve it..." i am hoping it will encourage her to address why she has written so many amazing books but hasn't published the first one.
+Emily Pollifax
I agree with your post. When I was in junior high school the only category I got was "Hey! here comes Schizo Elliott. Good times. :) I was in High School during the beginning of Black and White integration. Most people got more careful about language. Still there were the occasional fights. I think Dr. Peterson has one foot in the present and one in the future. I think he's lookin forward to "what's next". I don't doubt he's often tired. I could be wrong about that.
Fascinating discussion. The point of such debates is not so much what is being said by the two who talk as is how what is said resonates with and triggers a deepening of sense and meaning with the listeners! So thanks so much for this!
Thank you for recommending NT Wright.
I have been watching Peterson for almost 2 years now and have been dying to see Peterson interact with some of the more intellectual Orthodox writers like Wright, Keller or CS Lewis.
"The stories must not only be listened to and repeated, but also understood".
Why is that more true now, than it was 100, 200, 1000 years ago?
WOW!!