Screw the haters...I own a 2013 BRZ Limited and absolutely love it. This review does it justice. It's RWD, almost a 50/50 weight split, lightweight, and comes well appointed for a $25k car. Leather, auto/digital climate control, RFID key, SAT/NAV, and HID/LED lights, just to name a few. I shopped around a lot before buying this and couldn't find another car this fun to drive with these options in this price range.
interesting.. what do you think of the plastic in the front grill? I think that is the only part that really really bothers me about it. The rest of the car looks nice but the front is ruined
Jo Kommentaah I agree, to an extent. I think the fog light surrounds and the lower plastic would look better painted, however the upper solid piece doesn't bother me at all. It's got a nice textured matte finish and holds up better against stone chips and bugs than a painted surface would. Also, I drive a black BRZ so the unpainted plastic is much less notable. I DO have a problem with the stock fog lights. They use some eco-friendly low-wattage non-halogen bulbs. I will be upgrading these soon on mine.
marshallrhayes technically it only has around 170hp to the wheels and 130 ftp of torque, but with simple mods like full exhaust and e85 tuned will get you to 200whp and 165 ftp torque which will get you 0-60 in about 6 seconds. About not being light enough you also have options. Lighter wheels (14pounds per corner), aluminum or carbon fiber driveshaft, light clutch kit, single exit exhaust or dual straight pipe. Lighter rotors(aluminum hats). Or you could go FI turbo or SC, there are plenty of options out there.
My 23 year old son just bought one. I drove it 1800km from Melbourne to Brisbane. I own a 3 series BMW and this little car is brilliant. I enjoyed every minute of the drive and would not hesitate to buy one.
I think many people in the commenting section missed the whole point of the car. They're still stuck with camaros & mustangs. People, this is a fun,tail happy sports car that cost 27k. How many times a day do u go 120mph? In this, you do 50 & still have fun slidin' round all day
Oh okay so what is ur shape or form for a sports car? Or ur price range for a cheap sports car? Enlighten us pls...u better not mention these 10 n 20 yr old cars
most of the cars u mentioned are 30k + cars and they r mostly abused n have lots of baggages with them. Cool if thats u tho.....as for the brz, sure its underpowered but it 25k brand new n its so much fun. N if pwr is all u want, spend a few bucks on it make it "a real sports car"
i cud argue more on this...really...but i think u're "unconvincable" and i think u hate the car n the fact that its gettin all the praises so i give up. its overpirced underpowered "car" like u said
I find it amusing in the comments. These people bitching and complaining about ,"Too slow, POS." or "Not enough power." I find it funny, because these hating idiots have probably never driven the car before ever. Also, are you dragging the car everyday in a straight line with no traffic and without speed limit? Do you even possess the skills enough to handle a car that has all power and no handling? It's all about balance, handling and pure enjoyment, simular to a miata with a hood on. Not to mention, this car is typically 1000LBS lighter than most full sized sports cars, and costs a fraction of cars with 300-400HP.
I have the 10th Anniversary FR-S manual with 2k miles on it now... I LOVE IT. Best way to describe this car is that when you want to have fun driving, it lets you, and when you just need to get from point A to B, it will get you there effortlessly (and in style).
The BRZ in one of the best affordable sports cars out there + you can tune the hell out of it, engine, exterior,... This car wasn't designed for straight line but pure handeling delight ! Btw, Mustangs can't keep a straight line anyways, youtube is full of mustang crashes :D
The BRZ just needs a turbo and some tuning. Than it'll be plenty fast. I have a '88 Fiero GT with turbo and phase two tuning. Roughly 300HP. One morning I smoked a 3 series Bimmer off the line. Priceless!
Daniel Groulx I think it depends on what sorta driving you do with it, if you've got at least a few decent curving turns in your commute it's perfectly fine, or if you live near hills it works. You're not gonna struggle to get up to speed on the freeway or anything. The thing is a turbo model would likely cost a good deal more, but at worst you can just spend 5k and get a decent supercharger to remove the lack of torque it has in the midrange.
Mr.Science yeah and putting a turbo kit in this will add weight, a lot of it, on the front. the whole point of this, the Mazda mx5 and, yeah even the Cayman, is that it is not about straight line speed it is about balance and precision and free revving engines with a sound no turbo can match.
I challenge anyone to find a brand new car that can meet these standards for the price range: Go find another car for sub $30k with limited slip rear end, strengthened chassis, .28 drag coefficient, low center mass, 51/49 weight distribution, low weight, seating position with enough room over head for a helmet, enough room in the back for second set of wheels, factory bolt positions for seating harness, capable and ready to rev engine that has responded really well to superchargers, direct injection, dry sump, the list goes on. Sorry but anyone who cannot see this is good value needs to think about the fact that you can always add power, you can only reduce weight so much while retaining drivability.
The brz is for people who know how to drive. Those people don't write in the comment section of RUclips though, so you won't get any good responses here. So stop wasting your time and go to a track day.
it's great how people still hate on this car even though it's won loads of awards for being a drivers car. you know, cos random guy in the youtube comments who has never driven the car knows better than professional car reviewers.
I am in love with this car! I would get it over the FRS simply because of the hid lights, that makes a big difference in terms of car quality/finish in 2013. Its about the same price as a WRX which has 65 more hp, 100+ ft/lb of torque more and can make 300whp with about $2000-$3000 in modifications. If I got the BRZ I would keep it mainly stock except for small bolt ons but if I got a WRX I would modify it for 300+whp. Thats a hard choice, but I think i'd take the BRZ for the light weight and hooligan nature of rwd cars!
Good review! Somehow even though I've watched a lot reviews on this car, your review was balanced, touched all the bases I am interested in and added an honest perspective missing in many of the other reviews which have been released since. Keep it up!
What you're really paying for is the chassis and the layout. That's the foundation. You can tune and reduce weight to other cars all you want, and you'll make them better, but they'll never quite have the balance the brz has stock. It lacks some torque due to the restrictive headers that are there to improve efficiency, but those can be swapped out if 7 second 0-60 is really too slow for you. Personally I think they struck a great balance between fun and efficiency. If all you want is affordable power, just buy a Mustang. Better yet go ahead and buy a used Porsche but your maintenance costs are going to be through the roof...
This comment has no validity when you're talking about a car with only 200hp. You can buy a honda accord that has more power its pathetic. I could beat a brz in my fucking grocery getter with two toddlers in the back.
It's true. I hear all the time "I can get a V6 Camaro with 300HP!" Sure you can. But the build quality sucks. It doesn't handle as well, or stop as well. You don't feel as connected to the road...and then you will find yourself in just another Camaro. No thanks.
i understand and im sure the car handles great but what im sayin is if u put me in just about any decent handling 300 hp car against someone in a brz out on a track i will win every time. The car may handle very well but at 200hp that car will only do well in corners thats it. Not hating on the car. I would prefer a 4 cylinder non turbo for better gas mileage and lower insurance i just wish the car was cheaper than 25K and I would buy one.
My wife chose MX-5 Miata over BRZ, and I'm pissed, becasue she's right. Literally, the only reason we didn't get the BRZ, was becasue instead of the proper STI engine it has a pathetically castrated 2L. It's like this; BRZ 151 ft-lbs. @ 6,400 rpm 2,824 lbs Miata 140 ft-lbs. @ 5000 rpm 2,619 lbs My wife test drove the BRZ, she loved absolutely everything about it, expect when we hit the freeway onramp and while getting up to speed she asked "Does it go any faster? What am I doing wrong?" And what's up with 6th gear? On the freeway it's way to short, why? I'm guessing only becasue the 2L motor just craps out on the torque at that rage. It's that pathetic, Miata MX-5 has better torque to weight at lower RPM, better acceleration then the BRZ, and it had to be my wife making a point of it. BRZ is 50hp short of being adequate on freeway passes, and 100hp short of being a real blast to drive. We were so excited when BRZ came out, is was such a disappointment when such a serious lack of power became apperant, and my wife said that in this category, Mazda Miata 5 just made much more sense to her. I have a Subaru and love it, and soooo wanted another one in the family but no, corporate dick heads had to fuck it up, now the wife will be happily zipping around in a Miata instead of a BRZ.
True, but considering the BRZ weighs a heavy passenger more its 33 extra HP over the MX5 is almost moot. What I was hinting at is if the BRZ needs more power then the MX5 is in the same boat.
Sean M lighter MX5 will out handle the BRZ, and Miatas are known specifically for cornering performance. BRZ is at the very least 100hp underpowered, while for a performance car it's 200hp underpowered.
Damn good review! Much better than the Motortrend review and that is hard for me to say. I am currently in France now (Lyon specifically) and loved that you talked about the country, it is a very lovely country! Great job CARandDRIVER!
This car was underpowered. Trust me on this, intake, exhaust and a decent ecu re-map and tune, will have this car in the perfect power range for its weight.
This pays homage to the Toyota Hachi Roku AE86 if y'all didn't know. Initial D. Bunta and his Subaru, Takumi and his Toyota. 2 of the best fictional drift characters, makes more sense instead of comparing it to cars that deal more with HP. It's the new 86, it's all about balance
I couldn't believe he made that statement. This is the third Subaru I've owned and I absolutely love the sound of the Boxer engine. Sounds even better with decent aftermarket exhaust (had Cobb Tuning cat-backs on my old Impreza).
This is great! I think 200hp is enough for daily use & a lil fun. This car was meant to be a tuner base, so of course, if you're into more performance, there's plenty of aftermarket add-ons.
I'm in love with this car and the FRS. I think that those two cars are the most exciting cars of the past ten to fifteen years of car making. I can only hope that this sparks other car manufacturers to start following the same pursuit of light weight and fun to drive. I've been into rotary engines for the past decade, and every sports car I have owned has been as such. (Three Rx7s and an Rx8 currently). I think this will be my next car.
I have a BRZ limited in Silver. I absolutely love it! I traded in a big muscle car. I wanted something totally different and this car is a blast to drive. Instant classic.
Great review! I especially liked how you showed/discussed road handling in the two locations. My question: if the BRZ had high performance tyres say the same as the WRX STi, would the star grip make the car better or worse because it would be less "chuckable" but quicker around corners because of the grip. Your thoughts...
I like the comment about the seats being "all day comfortable" and I hear these are really nice cars to live with on a daily basis. I used to have a Porsche 944 and remember coming home from Pennsylvania feeling like I had just been beaten with a lead pipe for four hours. I also had a second generation Prelude Si that was even worse (there were times I wondered if that car had any suspension travel). Granted both cars were a blast to drive, but I am glad the newer sports cars are more refined.
Wow that is quite different from the video review I watched. What is your elevation and what was the temperature during your test? At what RPM did you drop the clutch? Do you like the car?
Love it! Could be my next car. I used to have a Porsche 944 and it had 147hp, If you know how to drive that's enough power. I enjoyed it The BRZ reminds of of that car!
Tuners are gonna love this when the leases start running out.This is the next 240 I wonder if performance engine parts are interchangeable with the WRX ? I see a after market turbo install in the near future
I actually had plans to go buy the Scion FR-S/ Subaru BRZ next year when I finished bootcamp. A FR-S sits down my road. That's when I found out Toyota and Subaru both made it and have the car. They are amazing looking cars and with the turbo kits they come out with you'll have no problem getting it up to 400+ horse. But stuff happened and now I'm looking at a 2004 Subaru WRX if things go smoothly. Also a beautiful well put together car. Excited to get my hands on it!
wow, now THAT was a damm good review..im impressed....and yes, i would def buy this car, its seems to be a pretty amazing instrument to makes you feel amazing
Totally agree on everything. Just maybe 15 hp (not whp) will be possibile with a good full aftermarket exhaust + remap. I think that would be a good compromise, and then when it's out of warranty you can fit a HKS Supercharger kit. I think this car is a keeper and people will buy it and keep it for 6-10 years doing lots of mods.
Once you drive a car, you will know immediately. Its just the feeling and the feedback of a car that can make it great. It doesn't have to go zero to 60 in 3 seconds to be awesome. The root of greatness can be anything from a good shifter to the engine sound.
That's rough. I've had my WRB BRZ Limited since June and I have never had an ounce of regret about buying it. I get excited every time I walk out to my car.
Seating position is the first thing everybody should get right when doing any sort of performance driving. The correct position is top of steering wheel at your wrist with your arm fully extended and your back against the seat. And both hands on steering wheel at all times at 9 and 3 o'clock positions :)
Japan has the BRZ as well. Apart from the visually differences, like you, I have no idea. If I had to pick one i'd go for the Toyota 86 simply because the entry level spec is cheaper here in NZ. What are your thoughts?
I found when driving this car that the only problem with it straight from the box was it's clutch and brakes, with a high actuation point. For someone inexperienced (or rusty) with a manual, they're going to be chirping the tires often. Also, the brakes were SUPER touchy, but when pushed hard, they tended to fade fast. Otherwise, it's a phenomenal car. I'm actually seriously looking at picking one up for September.
I an 6 foot 5 inches tall and I have over an inch of headroom and just enough leg room. Outward vision is perfect. No human can sit behind me though. I have driven over 500 miles in one day and felt fine. The seats are awesome.
I have an frs and I couldn't be happier I have grown more attached to this car is the short time I had it than any of my other cars that includes 03 evo, 05 g35, 01 z28, 91 mustang 5.0, and numerous turbo honda's making over 300whp, so needless to say all my cars were faster with alot of money in mods invested in all of them. My frs is stock and I love it and can't think of much to do to it right now to make it better because I know I will be disappointed if I take away from it's balance.
As with anything I make a large purchase on I did my research before laying down my hard earned money for my '13 BRZ Limited. I love It, driving in this car is a blast. Reminds me of my 1993 Ford Probe GT.
Thanks for your reply. The only problem is here in Australia a base Toyota GT86 is 33K drive away whereas a focus st is closer to 43K drive away. Dealers will not reduce the price for the 86 as there is a 6-12 month waitlist. I'm guessing I won't be able to get much off an ST as well. Basically, although I think the ST is more powerful and more practical, it really shouldnt be 10K more than an 86.
So you know how to read the brochure! Good job! Look, MSRP at the Subaru website is not the same as what dealerships are asking for. Dealers can raise the prices of the BRZ because of the demand and rarity vs a new FR-S or WRX. Plus for in addition to the six month wait for an 86 car only certain amount of BRZs are built for every 8 FR-S/GT-86 built.
Great review! Unlike the MX-5, this car is really well built ergonomically. I sit really upright, like the reviewer, and there is plenty of head room for me, even if I was wearing a helmet on the track. Ok, maybe with a helmet I would have to recline a notch or two from the ideal position, but for day to day use, the seating position is brilliant for me.
You are right Tim. like many I have driven light weight sporting cars. The last gen Celica,CRX, INtegra, 240. Corolla GTS. All of them had less power than the BRZ. The Mustang GT is a Wonderful Car. I love it. Ford has done an excellent job of engineering that car. Man you can feel that extra 850 pounds over the BRZ. For those of us that like the quick transitions of a light weight sporting car there is nothing else like the BRZ/FRS. We are willing to give up 200 ft lbs of torque 2 dump 850 pds.
I would potentially consider buying this car next, but I'm not too sure if I can handle the lack of power. At the moment I drive a 98 Subaru WRX STI, the type RA model. It weighs roughly 2730 pounds, and so by comparison the BRZ is not exactly "light weight". My car is tuned and makes around 265 at the wheels. Even if it made the full 200, which obviously it doesn't, the minimum 65 HP difference plus the loss of AWD...not sure I can handle the lack of speed I would have by comparison. There's no doubt in my mind that RWD is more fun, and that these are two different cars. In fact that's why I'm considering this in the first place (winter vehicle, summer vehicle). I also understand that straight line speed aside, this is probably the best bargain new sports car out there. Just not sure if I'm better off waiting until I can afford something more appropriately fast. I know a guy with the FRS and he has an exhaust + flash tune and apparently that makes around 25-30 more at the wheels now...that still only puts it up to the power level of a 2002 Mazda RX8. Decisions, decisions...
This car has roughly the same weight, horsepower, and torque of my old RSX Type-S and I had no complaints. If I were in the market for a sports car I'd buy one.
Pretty much, and that's about where everyone's hope for a more powerful car ends. The car serves a purpose the way it is, and it's doing a good job opening up a new market for manufacturers to break into, and a market where you can get younger people, like me, back into owning a car to have fun with and not just go to and fro, and back again.
i love mine! it just handles great. and then i go online and there are even more parts i can get to make it even better. its just great to have every day.
Both. This version was the Subaru BRZ, but an almost identical car is sold with the Scion FR-S badge. From the research I've done, the only difference is body styling.
As everybody has said, I think that this could definitely use some extra grunt. I'm not a power freak, but family sedans are now making plenty more power. I think it's awesome that it's naturally aspirated, and if they could tack on an extra 50 horses than I think they could do really well. I can imagine that we will be seeing a more powerful version of the BRZ before long.
Temperature in the 90s... and north carolina is a bit humid, correct? Compared to wherever the testers did the 0-60 run I think it is very likely that they had lower (more normal) outside air temperatures and possibly also higher humidity- both of which would explain the performance reduction for your test. Interesting. My Nissan 240SX is like a hot rod (to me) when the temp is below 40 degrees, but when it is 73, like today, it is a real dog.
I don't know who your nan is or if she is related to the Stig, but the reviewer is sitting in the proper driving position. Upright and nice and close to the steering wheel. The check is to put your shoulders into the seat, reach your hand straight out, and if the steering wheel touches your wrist you are close enough to the wheel.
Thanks for telling us where the RPM is on the highway. That's something no one ever talks about. I drove with my friend in his Evo X and it was spinning 3k on 70...super annoying.
The BRZ is ideal for supercharging. my experience with the Sprntex (screw compressor), tells me that it would be a good match. I'd say 10 psi would be just what the doctor ordered here, which would give the BRZ about 333 hp... and massive amounts of torque. How much?
The digital clock is probably a throw-back to the clock that was in the ae86, except that was in the center of the dash. I think it looks cool, and how complicated does a clock need to be?
3K @ 70 is also identical to the 99 Saturn SC2 with a 1.9 DOHC / 5 spd manual that I drive. My theory is they do it that way so cruise control can power you up hills or accel with the button without bogging the engine since it has little torque and can obviously not downshift since it is a stick.
I'm abit confused on one part your saying your doing 60-70 and just little over 2,000rpm it's quite on the highway and 6 gears helps the mpg, then later on your saying its noisy why it only gets 30mpg over 3,000rpm at 70 so is it quite or noisy lol is it over 2 or 3,000 rpm, and does it help or not help the mpg
good for you. Many of us like light and nimble not fat and powerful. Personally LOVE boxers. so probably going to pick one of these up after my 330xi gets long in tooth.
Oh that is good to know. I had no idea about the paint. I sat in a FRS and found it too be way too small for me. I'm 6'2" and barely fit in my 240SX. I did fit in the FRS, but it felt cloustrophobic... even smaller feeling than the 370Z (which is saying a lot). I must say, as cool as I think the BRZ/FRS is, the teeny skinny tires seem dumb and the lack of turbo is extra stupid. I want to turbo my 2.4 and get 250 to 300HP. That would make me very happy.
ya I also included the freight and a/c. Nice, what trim mustang, V6 premium with 3:31:1 rear LSD? I can't imagine the BRZ being as fun unless you still got a solid rear axle.
I really really want to like this. I drove the FR-S, and it felt like it was a pile. The BR-Z did feel slightly better put together on the lot. If I could get a test drive in one, I'd be able to see if it felt a bit better.
i just drove one today..the power is enough to have fun, at any moment i was wishing for more power (consider i was on speedlimitless german autobahns!)...and unlike many people i actually did like the noise of the car..but then, as far as i can SEE, the exhaust from the car i drove looked very different to the one in the video...but i did like the sound..it was sporty, without being shouty or "look at me"
Not true. My 05 STI is really fun to drive at speeds lower than 80mph. It sticks corners and doesn't loose the rear end like a RWD, either. Also helps that it has 300hp/300ft lbs to grunt to rocket out of corners. I love the way the BRZ looks, and would appreciate the paddle automatic for stop and go traffic, but I don't think I could sacrifice 2 doors and 140hp for something almost as expensive after the navi options. Maybe if they make an STI version...
Finally, I don't know how big you are, but Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear - who is about 6' 3" I believe - has a comparison test against the BMW Z4 in which you can clearly see he fits just fine. I am not trying to cause a raucous, just saying that you should do some more checking and then reconsider.
3K at 70 mph in 6th gear sounds about right for a 2 liter engine. In fact, it is exactly what the tachometer shows in my SVT Focus, which also has a 2 liter engine paired to a 6-speed transmission. Can't say that it's a great result or something to be proud of, but it is what it is. After all it's a smaller displacement, high compression 4-cylinder, not an old bulletproof V8.
I almost purchased the 350z when it first came out. I have been in the 370z several times. I am 6.5 feet tall and 200 pounds (skinny). In the Z with the seat all the way back if I look to the left I see the headliner. I look forward I see the headliner. In the BRZ I can drive cross country with a hat on. There is excellent outward vision for the tall and the short. Until recently I had no idea how much room there is in the Boxter someone on line told me to try it. Plenty of head and leg room.
I'm currently 20 years and want one of these so bad, one day hopefully. Only thing is, I hope they're not all destroyed by the time I can afford one. lol
Having test driven this car as well as the FRS, I can vouch for its chassis and handling dynamics. Make no mistake, great car but for me, it's underpowered/undertorqued. I'm eagerly anticipating what the aftermarket will offer for performance solutions. Meanwhile, I'll continue to enjoy my 2011 3.8 Genesis track model :)
A third person is quite comfortable laying across the seats. If you have two 5'-2" girls one can sit in the front passenger and the rear seat on the passengers side. When you fold down the rear seats you have great trunk space. When the seat is up the car is more silent than if it were a hatchback.
One of these reviews I watched they timed it at 6.2. It's the one where they drag race it next to a train yard. My '93 Nissan 240SX, which also weighs 2700 lbs, only has 155hp and it does 0-60 in 8.5 to 9 sec, depending on the temperature. And that's shifting at 5800 or 6000 RPM, well before the 6900 RPM redline. It seems conceivable that this car with 200hp could do. And it did because they show it being timed in the test.
The brz is designed for fun. It's rear drive so that means when you lose traction to the rear, you don't understeer and plow forwards; instead you slide out in the back making it more fun. Also, with big power cars you can't really wring it out like you could in a less powerful car. That's what makes the brz awesome, you can take it to the limit every time.
I drive a 2003 v6 Nissan Frontier. 3900lbs with only 180hp, I can pass on the freeway just fine. The BRZ/FRS will feel like a rocketship to me.
Screw the haters...I own a 2013 BRZ Limited and absolutely love it. This review does it justice. It's RWD, almost a 50/50 weight split, lightweight, and comes well appointed for a $25k car. Leather, auto/digital climate control, RFID key, SAT/NAV, and HID/LED lights, just to name a few. I shopped around a lot before buying this and couldn't find another car this fun to drive with these options in this price range.
interesting.. what do you think of the plastic in the front grill? I think that is the only part that really really bothers me about it. The rest of the car looks nice but the front is ruined
Jo Kommentaah I agree, to an extent. I think the fog light surrounds and the lower plastic would look better painted, however the upper solid piece doesn't bother me at all. It's got a nice textured matte finish and holds up better against stone chips and bugs than a painted surface would.
Also, I drive a black BRZ so the unpainted plastic is much less notable.
I DO have a problem with the stock fog lights. They use some eco-friendly low-wattage non-halogen bulbs. I will be upgrading these soon on mine.
I agree with u but i cant get over the fact that it has only 200hp. Its not light enough to be fast either.
marshallrhayes technically it only has around 170hp to the wheels and 130 ftp of torque, but with simple mods like full exhaust and e85 tuned will get you to 200whp and 165 ftp torque which will get you 0-60 in about 6 seconds. About not being light enough you also have options. Lighter wheels (14pounds per corner), aluminum or carbon fiber driveshaft, light clutch kit, single exit exhaust or dual straight pipe. Lighter rotors(aluminum hats). Or you could go FI turbo or SC, there are plenty of options out there.
I like the smile of the brz, LOL.
My 23 year old son just bought one. I drove it 1800km from Melbourne to Brisbane. I own a 3 series BMW and this little car is brilliant. I enjoyed every minute of the drive and would not hesitate to buy one.
I think many people in the commenting section missed the whole point of the car. They're still stuck with camaros & mustangs. People, this is a fun,tail happy sports car that cost 27k. How many times a day do u go 120mph? In this, you do 50 & still have fun slidin' round all day
you are right, but you can get a premium used under 10k miles for a little over 23k, that is affordable
Even better, rite?
Oh okay so what is ur shape or form for a sports car? Or ur price range for a cheap sports car? Enlighten us pls...u better not mention these 10 n 20 yr old cars
most of the cars u mentioned are 30k + cars and they r mostly abused n have lots of baggages with them. Cool if thats u tho.....as for the brz, sure its underpowered but it 25k brand new n its so much fun. N if pwr is all u want, spend a few bucks on it make it "a real sports car"
i cud argue more on this...really...but i think u're "unconvincable" and i think u hate the car n the fact that its gettin all the praises so i give up. its overpirced underpowered "car" like u said
I find it amusing in the comments. These people bitching and complaining about ,"Too slow, POS." or "Not enough power." I find it funny, because these hating idiots have probably never driven the car before ever. Also, are you dragging the car everyday in a straight line with no traffic and without speed limit? Do you even possess the skills enough to handle a car that has all power and no handling? It's all about balance, handling and pure enjoyment, simular to a miata with a hood on. Not to mention, this car is typically 1000LBS lighter than most full sized sports cars, and costs a fraction of cars with 300-400HP.
I have the 10th Anniversary FR-S manual with 2k miles on it now... I LOVE IT. Best way to describe this car is that when you want to have fun driving, it lets you, and when you just need to get from point A to B, it will get you there effortlessly (and in style).
The BRZ in one of the best affordable sports cars out there + you can tune the hell out of it, engine, exterior,...
This car wasn't designed for straight line but pure handeling delight ! Btw, Mustangs can't keep a straight line anyways, youtube is full of mustang crashes :D
I drove from D.C. to NY to get mine (rally blue)I got tired of waiting. I love it. Most fun car I have owned.
The BRZ just needs a turbo and some tuning. Than it'll be plenty fast. I have a '88 Fiero GT with turbo and phase two tuning. Roughly 300HP. One morning I smoked a 3 series Bimmer off the line. Priceless!
Daniel Groulx I think it depends on what sorta driving you do with it, if you've got at least a few decent curving turns in your commute it's perfectly fine, or if you live near hills it works. You're not gonna struggle to get up to speed on the freeway or anything.
The thing is a turbo model would likely cost a good deal more, but at worst you can just spend 5k and get a decent supercharger to remove the lack of torque it has in the midrange.
Mr.Science yeah and putting a turbo kit in this will add weight, a lot of it, on the front. the whole point of this, the Mazda mx5 and, yeah even the Cayman, is that it is not about straight line speed it is about balance and precision and free revving engines with a sound no turbo can match.
Annuvyn Arawn doesn't has to be a big one. Turbo are actually coming back now.
'..you're using all of the car more of the time'.
Beautifully put sir.
I challenge anyone to find a brand new car that can meet these standards for the price range:
Go find another car for sub $30k with limited slip rear end, strengthened chassis, .28 drag coefficient, low center mass, 51/49 weight distribution, low weight, seating position with enough room over head for a helmet, enough room in the back for second set of wheels, factory bolt positions for seating harness, capable and ready to rev engine that has responded really well to superchargers, direct injection, dry sump, the list goes on.
Sorry but anyone who cannot see this is good value needs to think about the fact that you can always add power, you can only reduce weight so much while retaining drivability.
370Z... May not be quite as balanced but an extra 130hp would make up for that...
WarmSoftKitty too heavy. Doesn't meet the lightweight requirement.
The brz is for people who know how to drive. Those people don't write in the comment section of RUclips though, so you won't get any good responses here. So stop wasting your time and go to a track day.
Dumbo Dumbton Track days? Those are for pussies, ever seen Takumi Fujiwara drive on a track?
WarmSoftKitty no
it's great how people still hate on this car even though it's won loads of awards for being a drivers car. you know, cos random guy in the youtube comments who has never driven the car knows better than professional car reviewers.
I am in love with this car! I would get it over the FRS simply because of the hid lights, that makes a big difference in terms of car quality/finish in 2013. Its about the same price as a WRX which has 65 more hp, 100+ ft/lb of torque more and can make 300whp with about $2000-$3000 in modifications. If I got the BRZ I would keep it mainly stock except for small bolt ons but if I got a WRX I would modify it for 300+whp. Thats a hard choice, but I think i'd take the BRZ for the light weight and hooligan nature of rwd cars!
Good review! Somehow even though I've watched a lot reviews on this car, your review was balanced, touched all the bases I am interested in and added an honest perspective missing in many of the other reviews which have been released since. Keep it up!
What you're really paying for is the chassis and the layout. That's the foundation. You can tune and reduce weight to other cars all you want, and you'll make them better, but they'll never quite have the balance the brz has stock. It lacks some torque due to the restrictive headers that are there to improve efficiency, but those can be swapped out if 7 second 0-60 is really too slow for you. Personally I think they struck a great balance between fun and efficiency.
If all you want is affordable power, just buy a Mustang. Better yet go ahead and buy a used Porsche but your maintenance costs are going to be through the roof...
This is one of my favorite Subaru models. Well built!
Americans and their fetish for muscle cars will never understand this car.
This comment has no validity when you're talking about a car with only 200hp. You can buy a honda accord that has more power its pathetic. I could beat a brz in my fucking grocery getter with two toddlers in the back.
marshallrhayes
Until you hit a twisty road. That's where the fun begins.
It's true. I hear all the time "I can get a V6 Camaro with 300HP!" Sure you can. But the build quality sucks. It doesn't handle as well, or stop as well. You don't feel as connected to the road...and then you will find yourself in just another Camaro. No thanks.
i understand and im sure the car handles great but what im sayin is if u put me in just about any decent handling 300 hp car against someone in a brz out on a track i will win every time. The car may handle very well but at 200hp that car will only do well in corners thats it. Not hating on the car. I would prefer a 4 cylinder non turbo for better gas mileage and lower insurance i just wish the car was cheaper than 25K and I would buy one.
It's for drifting (you do understand what is drifting rite?) not for drag racing in straight line
The 2015 Series Blue STI BRZ looks sick.
they have sold me.
Picking one up brand new in the next 6 months. That's my goal.
My wife chose MX-5 Miata over BRZ, and I'm pissed, becasue she's right.
Literally, the only reason we didn't get the BRZ, was becasue instead of the proper STI engine it has a pathetically castrated 2L.
It's like this;
BRZ 151 ft-lbs. @ 6,400 rpm 2,824 lbs
Miata 140 ft-lbs. @ 5000 rpm 2,619 lbs
My wife test drove the BRZ, she loved absolutely everything about it, expect when we hit the freeway onramp and while getting up to speed she asked "Does it go any faster? What am I doing wrong?" And what's up with 6th gear? On the freeway it's way to short, why? I'm guessing only becasue the 2L motor just craps out on the torque at that rage.
It's that pathetic, Miata MX-5 has better torque to weight at lower RPM, better acceleration then the BRZ, and it had to be my wife making a point of it.
BRZ is 50hp short of being adequate on freeway passes, and 100hp short of being a real blast to drive.
We were so excited when BRZ came out, is was such a disappointment when such a serious lack of power became apperant, and my wife said that in this category, Mazda Miata 5 just made much more sense to her.
I have a Subaru and love it, and soooo wanted another one in the family but no, corporate dick heads had to fuck it up, now the wife will be happily zipping around in a Miata instead of a BRZ.
BigSmartArmed BRZ definitely needs more power so I'm with you on MX 5 vs BRZ verdict.
gmartirosyan
MX5 167hp 140tq @ 2500lbs $27500
BRZ 200hp 150tq @ 2700lbs $27700
They are almost the same with the slight edge being the BRZ
Sean M 33hp is big difference!! You can even feel 10hp increase unless you are on passenger seat!!
True, but considering the BRZ weighs a heavy passenger more its 33 extra HP over the MX5 is almost moot. What I was hinting at is if the BRZ needs more power then the MX5 is in the same boat.
Sean M
lighter MX5 will out handle the BRZ, and Miatas are known specifically for cornering performance.
BRZ is at the very least 100hp underpowered, while for a performance car it's 200hp underpowered.
Damn good review! Much better than the Motortrend review and that is hard for me to say. I am currently in France now (Lyon specifically) and loved that you talked about the country, it is a very lovely country! Great job CARandDRIVER!
This car was underpowered. Trust me on this, intake, exhaust and a decent ecu re-map and tune, will have this car in the perfect power range for its weight.
This pays homage to the Toyota Hachi Roku AE86 if y'all didn't know. Initial D. Bunta and his Subaru, Takumi and his Toyota. 2 of the best fictional drift characters, makes more sense instead of comparing it to cars that deal more with HP. It's the new 86, it's all about balance
how could you even say subaru's boxer sound sucks...haven't you ever heard the STi...
I couldn't believe he made that statement. This is the third Subaru I've owned and I absolutely love the sound of the Boxer engine. Sounds even better with decent aftermarket exhaust (had Cobb Tuning cat-backs on my old Impreza).
This is great! I think 200hp is enough for daily use & a lil fun. This car was meant to be a tuner base, so of course, if you're into more performance, there's plenty of aftermarket add-ons.
Turbo
I'm in love with this car and the FRS. I think that those two cars are the most exciting cars of the past ten to fifteen years of car making. I can only hope that this sparks other car manufacturers to start following the same pursuit of light weight and fun to drive.
I've been into rotary engines for the past decade, and every sports car I have owned has been as such. (Three Rx7s and an Rx8 currently). I think this will be my next car.
I have a BRZ limited in Silver. I absolutely love it! I traded in a big muscle car. I wanted something totally different and this car is a blast to drive. Instant classic.
The BRZ is exactly the car that I've been looking for!
Citroen 2CVs!. Oh, and nice drift at the end, Mike. Good review!
Great review! I especially liked how you showed/discussed road handling in the two locations. My question: if the BRZ had high performance tyres say the same as the WRX STi, would the star grip make the car better or worse because it would be less "chuckable" but quicker around corners because of the grip. Your thoughts...
I like the comment about the seats being "all day comfortable" and I hear these are really nice cars to live with on a daily basis. I used to have a Porsche 944 and remember coming home from Pennsylvania feeling like I had just been beaten with a lead pipe for four hours. I also had a second generation Prelude Si that was even worse (there were times I wondered if that car had any suspension travel). Granted both cars were a blast to drive, but I am glad the newer sports cars are more refined.
Wow that is quite different from the video review I watched. What is your elevation and what was the temperature during your test?
At what RPM did you drop the clutch?
Do you like the car?
Love it! Could be my next car. I used to have a Porsche 944 and it had 147hp, If you know how to drive that's enough power. I enjoyed it The BRZ reminds of of that car!
Tuners are gonna love this when the leases start running out.This is the next 240 I wonder if performance engine parts are interchangeable with the WRX ? I see a after market turbo install in the near future
I actually had plans to go buy the Scion FR-S/ Subaru BRZ next year when I finished bootcamp. A FR-S sits down my road. That's when I found out Toyota and Subaru both made it and have the car. They are amazing looking cars and with the turbo kits they come out with you'll have no problem getting it up to 400+ horse. But stuff happened and now I'm looking at a 2004 Subaru WRX if things go smoothly. Also a beautiful well put together car. Excited to get my hands on it!
Great looking car. Dying to take it for a test drive.
hows the suspension though? and are you still using the standard rims?
wow, now THAT was a damm good review..im impressed....and yes, i would def buy this car, its seems to be a pretty amazing instrument to makes you feel amazing
Totally agree on everything. Just maybe 15 hp (not whp) will be possibile with a good full aftermarket exhaust + remap. I think that would be a good compromise, and then when it's out of warranty you can fit a HKS Supercharger kit. I think this car is a keeper and people will buy it and keep it for 6-10 years doing lots of mods.
Once you drive a car, you will know immediately. Its just the feeling and the feedback of a car that can make it great. It doesn't have to go zero to 60 in 3 seconds to be awesome. The root of greatness can be anything from a good shifter to the engine sound.
That's rough. I've had my WRB BRZ Limited since June and I have never had an ounce of regret about buying it. I get excited every time I walk out to my car.
great comeback
Nice balanced review. The FR-S is a little bit more affordable from what I've seen of dealer pricing in the Seattle area.
Seating position is the first thing everybody should get right when doing any sort of performance driving. The correct position is top of steering wheel at your wrist with your arm fully extended and your back against the seat. And both hands on steering wheel at all times at 9 and 3 o'clock positions :)
Japan has the BRZ as well.
Apart from the visually differences, like you, I have no idea.
If I had to pick one i'd go for the Toyota 86 simply because the entry level spec is cheaper here in NZ. What are your thoughts?
I found when driving this car that the only problem with it straight from the box was it's clutch and brakes, with a high actuation point. For someone inexperienced (or rusty) with a manual, they're going to be chirping the tires often. Also, the brakes were SUPER touchy, but when pushed hard, they tended to fade fast.
Otherwise, it's a phenomenal car. I'm actually seriously looking at picking one up for September.
The Frs/BRZ reminds me of the AE86....and I love that
What would you suggest then?
I an 6 foot 5 inches tall and I have over an inch of headroom and just enough leg room. Outward vision is perfect. No human can sit behind me though. I have driven over 500 miles in one day and felt fine. The seats are awesome.
would this be a good first car choice? or is it too small.
I have an frs and I couldn't be happier I have grown more attached to this car is the short time I had it than any of my other cars that includes 03 evo, 05 g35, 01 z28, 91 mustang 5.0, and numerous turbo honda's making over 300whp, so needless to say all my cars were faster with alot of money in mods invested in all of them. My frs is stock and I love it and can't think of much to do to it right now to make it better because I know I will be disappointed if I take away from it's balance.
As with anything I make a large purchase on I did my research before laying down my hard earned money for my '13 BRZ Limited. I love It, driving in this car is a blast. Reminds me of my 1993 Ford Probe GT.
Thanks for your reply. The only problem is here in Australia a base Toyota GT86 is 33K drive away whereas a focus st is closer to 43K drive away. Dealers will not reduce the price for the 86 as there is a 6-12 month waitlist. I'm guessing I won't be able to get much off an ST as well. Basically, although I think the ST is more powerful and more practical, it really shouldnt be 10K more than an 86.
So you know how to read the brochure! Good job! Look, MSRP at the Subaru website is not the same as what dealerships are asking for. Dealers can raise the prices of the BRZ because of the demand and rarity vs a new FR-S or WRX. Plus for in addition to the six month wait for an 86 car only certain amount of BRZs are built for every 8 FR-S/GT-86 built.
Great review! Unlike the MX-5, this car is really well built ergonomically. I sit really upright, like the reviewer, and there is plenty of head room for me, even if I was wearing a helmet on the track. Ok, maybe with a helmet I would have to recline a notch or two from the ideal position, but for day to day use, the seating position is brilliant for me.
You are right Tim. like many I have driven light weight sporting cars. The last gen Celica,CRX, INtegra, 240. Corolla GTS. All of them had less power than the BRZ. The Mustang GT is a Wonderful Car. I love it. Ford has done an excellent job of engineering that car. Man you can feel that extra 850 pounds over the BRZ. For those of us that like the quick transitions of a light weight sporting car there is nothing else like the BRZ/FRS. We are willing to give up 200 ft lbs of torque 2 dump 850 pds.
i'm saying what about aftermarket parts from the dealership. Do you go to subaru or toyota????
I go to Subaru
in your case go to pep boyz
Great review!!!
This reminds me of my E30. Light, rwd, tail happy, just enough power...
I will own one of these.
can get a used black 2014 for about 20k--should I do it? I have a 5 spd '00 328Ci now & def want another MT car.
I would potentially consider buying this car next, but I'm not too sure if I can handle the lack of power. At the moment I drive a 98 Subaru WRX STI, the type RA model. It weighs roughly 2730 pounds, and so by comparison the BRZ is not exactly "light weight". My car is tuned and makes around 265 at the wheels. Even if it made the full 200, which obviously it doesn't, the minimum 65 HP difference plus the loss of AWD...not sure I can handle the lack of speed I would have by comparison.
There's no doubt in my mind that RWD is more fun, and that these are two different cars. In fact that's why I'm considering this in the first place (winter vehicle, summer vehicle). I also understand that straight line speed aside, this is probably the best bargain new sports car out there. Just not sure if I'm better off waiting until I can afford something more appropriately fast. I know a guy with the FRS and he has an exhaust + flash tune and apparently that makes around 25-30 more at the wheels now...that still only puts it up to the power level of a 2002 Mazda RX8.
Decisions, decisions...
This car has roughly the same weight, horsepower, and torque of my old RSX Type-S and I had no complaints. If I were in the market for a sports car I'd buy one.
I'm glad they reviewed part of it in Ann Arbor Michigan. Because our roads suck ass
Pretty much, and that's about where everyone's hope for a more powerful car ends. The car serves a purpose the way it is, and it's doing a good job opening up a new market for manufacturers to break into, and a market where you can get younger people, like me, back into owning a car to have fun with and not just go to and fro, and back again.
i love mine! it just handles great. and then i go online and there are even more parts i can get to make it even better. its just great to have every day.
Both. This version was the Subaru BRZ, but an almost identical car is sold with the Scion FR-S badge. From the research I've done, the only difference is body styling.
Seriously? When did they start doing that? That's Awesome!
As everybody has said, I think that this could definitely use some extra grunt. I'm not a power freak, but family sedans are now making plenty more power. I think it's awesome that it's naturally aspirated, and if they could tack on an extra 50 horses than I think they could do really well. I can imagine that we will be seeing a more powerful version of the BRZ before long.
Temperature in the 90s... and north carolina is a bit humid, correct?
Compared to wherever the testers did the 0-60 run I think it is very likely that they had lower (more normal) outside air temperatures and possibly also higher humidity- both of which would explain the performance reduction for your test.
Interesting.
My Nissan 240SX is like a hot rod (to me) when the temp is below 40 degrees, but when it is 73, like today, it is a real dog.
I don't know who your nan is or if she is related to the Stig, but the reviewer is sitting in the proper driving position. Upright and nice and close to the steering wheel. The check is to put your shoulders into the seat, reach your hand straight out, and if the steering wheel touches your wrist you are close enough to the wheel.
i really like this car, i just drove one today and i think its one of the better, cheap sportcars we currently have today.
Thanks for telling us where the RPM is on the highway. That's something no one ever talks about. I drove with my friend in his Evo X and it was spinning 3k on 70...super annoying.
The BRZ is ideal for supercharging. my experience with the Sprntex (screw compressor), tells me that it would be a good match. I'd say 10 psi would be just what the doctor ordered here, which would give the BRZ about 333 hp... and massive amounts of torque. How much?
The digital clock is probably a throw-back to the clock that was in the ae86, except that was in the center of the dash. I think it looks cool, and how complicated does a clock need to be?
3K @ 70 is also identical to the 99 Saturn SC2 with a 1.9 DOHC / 5 spd manual that I drive. My theory is they do it that way so cruise control can power you up hills or accel with the button without bogging the engine since it has little torque and can obviously not downshift since it is a stick.
@flip92 when do u think the sti is coming out?
I'm abit confused on one part your saying your doing 60-70 and just little over 2,000rpm it's quite on the highway and 6 gears helps the mpg, then later on your saying its noisy why it only gets 30mpg over 3,000rpm at 70 so is it quite or noisy lol is it over 2 or 3,000 rpm, and does it help or not help the mpg
good for you. Many of us like light and nimble not fat and powerful. Personally LOVE boxers. so probably going to pick one of these up after my 330xi gets long in tooth.
Oh that is good to know. I had no idea about the paint. I sat in a FRS and found it too be way too small for me. I'm 6'2" and barely fit in my 240SX.
I did fit in the FRS, but it felt cloustrophobic... even smaller feeling than the 370Z (which is saying a lot).
I must say, as cool as I think the BRZ/FRS is, the teeny skinny tires seem dumb and the lack of turbo is extra stupid.
I want to turbo my 2.4 and get 250 to 300HP. That would make me very happy.
How does the Subaru version differ from the Scion version?
I think that was a pretty cool review... never seen car and driver before.
As for the car... mine is on order.
ya I also included the freight and a/c. Nice, what trim mustang, V6 premium with 3:31:1 rear LSD? I can't imagine the BRZ being as fun unless you still got a solid rear axle.
I really really want to like this. I drove the FR-S, and it felt like it was a pile. The BR-Z did feel slightly better put together on the lot. If I could get a test drive in one, I'd be able to see if it felt a bit better.
i just drove one today..the power is enough to have fun, at any moment i was wishing for more power (consider i was on speedlimitless german autobahns!)...and unlike many people i actually did like the noise of the car..but then, as far as i can SEE, the exhaust from the car i drove looked very different to the one in the video...but i did like the sound..it was sporty, without being shouty or "look at me"
i no this might sound dumb, but does the BRZ have a sunroof option, ive never seen any pictures of them
Not true. My 05 STI is really fun to drive at speeds lower than 80mph. It sticks corners and doesn't loose the rear end like a RWD, either. Also helps that it has 300hp/300ft lbs to grunt to rocket out of corners. I love the way the BRZ looks, and would appreciate the paddle automatic for stop and go traffic, but I don't think I could sacrifice 2 doors and 140hp for something almost as expensive after the navi options. Maybe if they make an STI version...
Caught a glimpse of Daryl with his crossbow and Sheriff Rick with some biters...LOL!
Finally, I don't know how big you are, but Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear - who is about 6' 3" I believe - has a comparison test against the BMW Z4 in which you can clearly see he fits just fine. I am not trying to cause a raucous, just saying that you should do some more checking and then reconsider.
3K at 70 mph in 6th gear sounds about right for a 2 liter engine. In fact, it is exactly what the tachometer shows in my SVT Focus, which also has a 2 liter engine paired to a 6-speed transmission. Can't say that it's a great result or something to be proud of, but it is what it is. After all it's a smaller displacement, high compression 4-cylinder, not an old bulletproof V8.
I almost purchased the 350z when it first came out. I have been in the 370z several times. I am 6.5 feet tall and 200 pounds (skinny). In the Z with the seat all the way back if I look to the left I see the headliner. I look forward I see the headliner. In the BRZ I can drive cross country with a hat on. There is excellent outward vision for the tall and the short. Until recently I had no idea how much room there is in the Boxter someone on line told me to try it. Plenty of head and leg room.
I'm currently 20 years and want one of these so bad, one day hopefully. Only thing is, I hope they're not all destroyed by the time I can afford one. lol
Having test driven this car as well as the FRS, I can vouch for its chassis and handling dynamics. Make no mistake, great car but for me, it's underpowered/undertorqued. I'm eagerly anticipating what the aftermarket will offer for performance solutions. Meanwhile, I'll continue to enjoy my 2011 3.8 Genesis track model :)
subaru is already working on 250hp version of the car confirmed intake & exhaust tuning plus more weight loss it will be a legend
Already is. It's about balance. Forget the numbers, that's what fun is all about!
Everyone's bashing the BRZ because of it's lack of horsepower, but they always forget that it wasn't designed to be fast. It was designed to drift.
A third person is quite comfortable laying across the seats. If you have two 5'-2" girls one can sit in the front passenger and the rear seat on the passengers side. When you fold down the rear seats you have great trunk space. When the seat is up the car is more silent than if it were a hatchback.
The Sti version of this thing is going to be nuts!
How tall is Mike? I'm 6'1 and was wondering if it was be to "small" for me.
One of these reviews I watched they timed it at 6.2. It's the one where they drag race it next to a train yard.
My '93 Nissan 240SX, which also weighs 2700 lbs, only has 155hp and it does 0-60 in 8.5 to 9 sec, depending on the temperature. And that's shifting at 5800 or 6000 RPM, well before the 6900 RPM redline.
It seems conceivable that this car with 200hp could do. And it did because they show it being timed in the test.
The brz is designed for fun. It's rear drive so that means when you lose traction to the rear, you don't understeer and plow forwards; instead you slide out in the back making it more fun. Also, with big power cars you can't really wring it out like you could in a less powerful car. That's what makes the brz awesome, you can take it to the limit every time.