Jim Cornette on If David Von Erich Would Have Won The NWA World Title
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- Опубликовано: 3 дек 2022
- From Episode 271 of the Jim Cornette's Drive Thru
Artwork by Travis Heckel!
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Imagine in a couple of years an octogenarian Brian Last talking to Cyber Cornette about if Orange Cassidy should’ve beat Luigi Primo for the AEW Championship in 2023, and Corny just activating his self destruct switch.
😂😂😂😂 This made me choke.
We shall call him Locutus of Corn
Hahaha ! Your nuts ! But I love it though ! I can picture this like a Futurama episode !
CyberCornette 5000. Designed solely to ensure Jim Cornette outlives Russo. Thus, allowing him to piss on his grave.
I love the idea that in the future, Corny is gonna be a head in a jar still yelling about bad wrestling
I love hearing Jim and Brian talk about anything on the Von Erichs.
Me too
Aren't you the guy I see on the THG videos too? Lol
Agreed. 💯
I think Travis missed a golden opportunity here. If this is Mars, this could've had Jim's face shield shattered with his 👀 bugging out like Schwarzenegger in 'Total Recall.'
I always thought when Kerry won and post-match in the ring Flair said something to the effect “Tell your dad I’m coming back for my belt,” it was a shoot. Clearly, Kerry wasn’t keeping that belt long-term.
And he shouldn't have
quote Kerry 'Is there gonna be trouble? Flair "No, There aint gonna be any trouble, you just tell your brothers and your old man, Ric Flair wll be back." Kerry "You got it baby."
I was outside the church in Feb 1984 for David's funeral at 12 years old. There were thousands with me. The outpouring of grief and sadness outweighed Kerry's death by a mile. David was,my childhood hero, and I lived less than 5 miles from the Lake Dallas ranch in Lewisville
Wow. When did grief level become a competition?
I remember reading about the late DVE in PWI Magazine when he passed on. It was around the time of my 15th b-day as a 9th grader. I'll never forget the shock I felt seeing his pic and scoping the article
david von erich was my first favorite wrestler. i got to see him live at a wccw house shows in 1982 and 1984. still haven't heard a crowd pop like those von erich boys got in texas back then.
That barn promo where he is talking bout being touched makes me LOL.
There's been thousands of bigger pops than what WCCW was pulling. Simply on crowd sizes alone.
@@kppodcast5698 i guess. maybe my childhood memory plays tricks on me too. but in defense of me being an old timer, for one thing, the von erichs pulled a shit ton of teenage girls. easily more than half the crowd. the level of shrieking was like sticking your head in a jet engine. guess it's something you can't quantify but i don't hear that sound these days at live events at all.
I didn't get into wrestling until I was 10 in 1987. I saw a little of Kevin and Kerry and only heard about the Von Erich tragedies. As I got older I heard a lot about the whole family especially David. I quickly learned why David was considered the best of the family and was deemed a future world champion. He was great in the ring, had the best personality, and was by far the best on the mic. He didn't have a great physique like Kevin or Kerry, but that actually worked in his favor. He seemed like a down to earth guy that you could have a beer with (even though I don't drink), or grab a burger with.
@@teddyrannila4424 Great commentary.
I wish all the Von Erichs were still alive. Kerry was my favorite. I met him as a kid he was super cool and very friendly. He was in the wwf at the time as the Texas tornado and his finish was a spinning punch.
Grew up still live in ST.LOUIS von erichs and nwa is what we know harley race Sam MUCHNICK @nwa
@@CertifiedHuSTLer same HERE a STL CAT. The old wrestling at the Chase days.
@sirjer73 yes I been to both recently wrestling at the chase, I also was at last event from MUCHNICK days I was 3
The "Discus " punch Ithink he called it
Kevin is still alive.
I remember the match in Ft Worth when Kerry "had the 103°fever"
I to this day remember how pissed Flair looked. He wasn't the cool cocky Flair he looked legit pissed
The Kerry Von Erich vs. Flair story was the opposite of the one Terry Taylor told about his match with Flair at the Louisiana Superdome. Flair showed up and looked like a mess. Taylor was fuming that his night was ruined before it started. When Flair hit the ring, he was immaculate and proceeded to torture Taylor for 60 minutes.
Terry's the Gobbledygook 🦃!!
OK.... GIVEN Ric's reputation on certain matters....
It's still hard to believe ANYTHING Terry Taylor says.....
@@williammitchell4417 Terry could be his own worst enemy, however that Red Rooster gimmick destroyed his career.
@@keithcrockett7838 Taylor’s credibility is questionable but this sounds like a Ric Flair move.
Flair didn't stretch him or anything or try to show him up. All Flair did, and this is what Taylor meant, was performed at an insane level of endurance and ability despite having been hung over shortly before the match. Taylor didn't confront Flair before the match, and by his own admission, Terry was "all about Terry" back then and had no idea that Flair wasgoing to be able to do exactly what he was brought in to do. I remember this match clearly and Flair made him look like a million bucks but you can see that at the end Taylor is gassed and Flair is playing at being gassed.
When I was a kid I had always wondered why Ric Flair was NWA champion for so long and why he always regained the title right back if/when he did lose it. I mean I knew he was very talented and I understood he was a major draw financially as well but there were also other wrestlers who I believed could be just as good and put butts in the seats too. Well with this commentary Jim Cornette has explained completely why Flair continued to regain the belt and reign for so long during the eighties and early nineties. And why I was wrong about what I thought. Simply using David and Kerry Von Erich as examples of the possible world champions instead of Flair, Jim has just explained that only a flamboyant figure like Flair and a wrestler with Flair's In-Ring ability and promo genius and heat and ability to make the people believe and all that just came to Ric Flair naturally unlike any other persona of the day then of course he would be the only person to compete with Hulk Hogan and the WWF/WWE. And you know what he is absolutely right! And now that he has put it in to layman's terms and explained it. It seems so obvious and I feel a little embarrassed It didn't come to me before now. I love this show! The Experience and the Drive-Thru are the only podcasts I listen to, period!
Exactly. David Avon Erich could sell tickets in Texas. However, how would David have done as a visiting world champ to a territory? Is it heel David vs local baby face? I’m not sure how well a face world champ would do against the local top heel,ticket wise.
This is obviously speculation on my part but I can Imagine how Kerry felt that night. Your whole life you are competing with your older brother at who was better probably about everything (friendly competition among brothers is fairly common especially in the south). Everyone always tells you you’re good but you ain’t like David. You probably have to listen to David talk about wrestling all the time and while it pays your bills you don’t love it like he does ( which unbeknownst to you is the reason you ain’t as good at it). I imagine David wanted to win the NWA title and thought if he just kept doing what he’s doing he might but the bookers never seem to pick him to win. Then one day you get a call your brother was found dead of a heart attack in Japan (or whatever he died from I know the theories) and now the title match they have been building up for falls on you and since David is dead and the whole state of Texas is in morning and will come to the match they tell you you’re going over Ric Flair for the belt. On some level you probably always wanted to win the title who doesn’t want to be considered the best at what they do but you know it’s only cause your brother who was better at all this than you died and you start to feel like you’re taking his dream from him. Yeah everyone is saying he would’ve wanted you to have it but you just can’t help but feel responsible for his death like you wished it to happen by wishing to win the title. So you turn to drugs even more so than usual. The day of the match comes and everyone is cheering you and sad about your brother. Your dad seems happier about what’s happening then you think he should be and you would rather be anyone else in any other place so you go get the drug and smoke it he’ll maybe now you’ll lose or they will call off the match. I can’t help but feel sad for the man. You can tell he had a lot of demons even if all my speculation is utter bs
Jimmy, Kevin Sullivan stated the plan was to drop the title to David, Barry, and then Magnum. This would've gave the NWA territories longer life.
I watched WCCW religiously from about 83-87. Things really went downhill starting with David's death and seemed to completely fall apart after Mike's death. I was a kid and a bit of a mark so I couldn't entirely put my finger on what was going wrong, but there was clearly issues.
I am a Mark
I'm a fan.. I believed it all
If more fans would know their roles and just be MARKS the wrestling world would be a WHOOOOOOOLE lot better off for it.
@@coreyhall1150 get rid of writers and gynastics and sports entertainment
. Fight ..compete likes regular person would .. and if u gonna cheat ..really cheat.. power in the eyes..salt. something really illegal.. suspend my disbelief
Correct me if I'm wrong, didn't Gino Hernandez pass away close to the same time??
Jim has to keep in mind that while he says flair could carry anybody for 40 minutes, and he’s right, that the match where he lost to Kerry von Erich for the title was only about 15 minutes.
It was very hot that day and over 100 degrees at rignside. If that match was indoors, like at a dome, they would have done a longer match.
Kerry wouldn’t have lasted 40 minutes because at that time he was heavily into recreational stuff and Flair even said in a shoot that the reason Kerry won with a backslide was because that was the only finish he could remember 😆
Every time i see that Travis' take on Kerry, I think it's Tom Zenk.
If David had not died and had the match with Ric instead of Kerry at the Parade Of Champions, would they have drawn the same number of fans as Kerry and Ric did?
whats sad is it seemed to take Davids death to make that big of a drawing for World Class
More.They would’ve turned people away.
I get the feeling that it would've been a moot point anyway, because not getting the NWA title, it might've induced Fritz to leave earlier and look to a partnership with Vince the way Stu Hart did (and eventually end up cheated, of course) and you'd see David and Kerry and probably Kevin headed into the WWF. Vince wanted David and Kerry very much.
One of the best Survivor series teams was the Warriors. The Road, Modern Day and the Ultimate Warrior.
With David passing in the World Class territory at the time, it was almost like Elvis dying.
Even the WWF acknowledged his death. Vince Sr knew Fritz
During the title change where flair dropped the belt to Kerry, Kerry was so wasted that flair had to practically sell the “finger poke of doom“ to give him the strap…
Kerry was the only one (84-86) that could have been successfully programmed against Hogan.
David was set up to win the NWA title in 84. In January, Flair wrestled Mike On tv in if Mike could last 10 minutes, and which he did. David got all the stipulations for their next world title match. Also Kerry did some matches in Florida with David as a rule breaker. In helping Ric Flair against Butch Reed. So yes, David was going to win the world title. Jim, you're wrong on this one
David was under consideration and it was strong consideration, but he was never promised the title. The biggest block to anyone getting that title for a sizable run, was Flair. Flair was not easy to replace and the promoters didn't want to do it. Cornette is absolutely right that were it the 1970s then David would have been in a perfect position. But things were very different in the 1980s. David was only going to get better, unless he self-destructed, but was not there by 1984.
@@ericanderson3091 Thank you. Way too many people are promoting the myth that he was penciled in for the NWA title, and he wasn't. Under strong consideration, as you said, but nothing was decided.
@@zippymufo9765 Good comment and I take Cornette very seriously on this issue, but when the "myth" comes straight from Kevin Sullivan who was involved in meetings leading up to that match that never happened, I cannot automatically discount that.
@@whompbiscuits8930 What does Kevin Sullivan say?
BULLSHIT
They could have just put it in the script for David to win
Honestly, I don't think there was a magic bullet for Hulk Hogan. He was the right guy with the right gimmick at the right time. The best the NWA could have hoped for in these "what if" scenarios was to simply weather the storm better.
That and nobody had marketing like Vince. It wasn't close. He had a good partnership with NBC, too, to the extent that NBC would pay the talent for their TV show. NBC was paying Vince vs the territories paying for TV. Vince had multiple revenue streams where the other territories had just the gate and a little merch. Vince had the right base and knew exactly what he was going to do and how. The other promoters had way too much ego and thought they would last forever. By the time Vince started making his moves, it was too late. The best they could do is stall.
Flashbacks to the "Martian" booking idea sent in that time :P
Kerry Von Erich didn't have one tenths of the personality and promo skill of Hogan. There's no way he would have ever gone over big nationally. Did he look good and work good? Sure. But he had no personality or mic skills.
There is no way that David Von Erich has that title for a year or even 6 months. David was too attached to Texas.
Most likely true, although World Class tv did have a pretty far reach. Nothing close to TBS, but still pretty impressive all things considered.
Isn't that also ironic? From what I heard, David was the first to leave Texas to grow more as a wrestler.
I disagree with Jim in that WCCW was getting just too big to ignore. I think David as champion, and Magnum getting a reign if his accident doesn't happen, negates at least one of Dusty's reigns, and likely Ronnie Garvin's as well.
This lingers with me since I originally saw the World Class show in '85-86. Did Fritz pull out of the NWA, or did Crockett push him out? Was World Class the one NWA territory Crockett couldn't control and therefore no more title defenses in Texas...?
What was Flair's last title defense in World Class?
I believe it was the 2nd Parade of Champions in '85 against Kevin.
@b-zoneonroku2020 After Parade of Champions, Flair came back to World Class in fall of 85 against Lance Von Erich. Then that was it.
Why did Kerry get the nod over Kevin? Kevin was the elder brother, was a better wrestler and seemingly was as over as Kerry, no?
Kerry had the better body and was more adored by the ladies.
I also had heard that Kevin was even more out there than Kerry back in the day. I wanna say Jim even referenced this years ago when this podcast very first launched. I don’t think it was so much substance abuse, though Kevin did participate, but more like Kevin had a few screws loose, wasn’t playing with a full deck etc…
Every shoot interview from Billy Jack to Brett has said that Kerry had his issues but he was a kind hearted, likable guy. Others described Kevin in a negative light. So, that might be one reason.
LOOKS....
KERRY LOOKED LIKE A WRESTLER.....
KEVIN LOOKED LIKE AN ATHLETE....
All the above, plus Kevin was super stiff and many dudes didn’t like working with him
I think Jim Cornette would have enjoyed working with David Von Erich. Because just like Jim. David cared about the business.
Wrestling fans really do enjoy hypotheticals like no other...😂
David absolutely would have had a run with the NWA title. David would have gotten at least a short run, but he was never destined to be a top star far beyond Texas (and Israel). His deep Texan personality wouldn't have gotten over as well in other places, and when wrestling went national with the WWF express, David *may* have ended up going North and being a midcard hand.
That was the point of David working Florida as a heel, it was a test to see if he could bring heel heat, as was mentioned previously. David as the NWA Champ would have been a face in Dallas and a heel elsewhere. It would have been easy to do as Texans love Texans even if they "bend" the rules.
When we were young everyone wanted to be Kerry but no one wanted to be David.
I was watching that match also everyone thought he had pneumonia
David, Kevin, Kerry In a triple threat match.
For the championship
No matter how bad business got in World Class, they never went with the most obvious, guaranteed money maker. Von Erich brother vs. Von Erich brother.
That would’ve killed WCCW.
@@bigroy38 Considering it died a painful death, they should have made a big gate on the way out. That was probably the only thing they could’ve done by 1988 to make money.
Heaven Needed a Champion.
Triple H and Vince McMahon would easily put over Flair at Texas Stadium and then Tim Witherspoon would serenade Kerry with Deep in the heart of Texas
Jim’s just wrong on this. I’ve heard both Harley Race and Ric Flair state in interviews that David Von Erich was getting a run with the NWA World Title in 1984 and that Kerry got that win because of the fact they were giving it to David. To make good to Fritz. So I trust their word over it on this one when Jim wasn’t in Crockett or WCCW in 84.
WCCW wrestling was the best
I watched all 82 eps they were good I liked von erichs great kabuki yh really enjoyed it I loved awa aswell shows I did see wish wwe upload lot more awa content
Cornette is speaking as if Dusty Rhodes was having 45 minute matches as a mid 80s NWA World Champ. I feel a clean Kerry Von Erich would have helped all the territories' business.
Dusty was as well known as Flair for going broadway.
So Kerry as a heel? Outside of Texas most people didn't know about him and nobody would have cared.
I think if Kerry had stayed away from the drugs his career would have been huge. He wasn't the best on the mic but he had a tremendous look and appeal that would have carried him. He wouldn't have been champion for any long period but I think he could have been one of the very top baby faces in the wrestling business in the late 80's.
@@AceGoodheart I think this never would have happened cause of timing, but what about if Kerry was put in the Ultimate Warrior role? He had the look, and was a better worker. Than again, saying anyone is a better worker than Hellwig isn't saying much. Also, from what I heard, Kerry was very likeable so I could also see more stars getting along with him. Last point, Kerry was The Modern Day Warrior in WCCW so I could see Vince saying, "God damn pal, we'll make you The Ultimate Warrior."
Again, I know timing is off, and this is also assuming a reality where Kerry stays clean, but still cool to think about.
Didnt-Davids-dad-try-to-sell-tickets-to-his-kids-funeral?......One-of-the-nastiest-things-Ive-probably-ever-heard-in-wresting
Flair and his same match every night killed the NWA, surely David couldve done just as good as that so why not give him a shot in this hypothetical mumbo jumbo
I loved the Von Erichs but the idea David was gonn be a touring champ seems preposterous to me.Kerry was kind of a guy - David was a dude - but like even IF they're both chugging- couldn't have imagined them being guys through like say - '88 or something.
I think the Von Erich thing is a nice bed time story, They were good. They weren't Flair level dudes.
Let's get Jim to talk about Rodney Mack and Question Mark.
11:06 yes Jim, Flair told this story 50,000 times.
After listening to the deep dive on World Class on Lapsed Fan podcast, it hits home that these guys never stood a chance from the beginning
It was all about Fritz and to what ends he would use to get what he wants.
KERRY WAS THE STAR. PERIOD
The wwe network has an amazing Von Erich Documentary.
There is also Heroes of World Class Championship Wrestling documentary that's really good
The gang from Dark Side of the Ring and Tales of the Territories did some fantastic work also
How’s them kiiiiids?
That’s what it’s all about…
Yes, David looked like someone who would compete with Bob Backlund ('70s champion Backlund, not the crazy "Mr. Backlund" guy he became later on), not someone to counterprogramme Hulkamania with. Like someone who should be an amateur wrestler, not an '80s _pro wrestler._ based on the '70s Superstar Billy Graham bodybuilder template. He was tall, but had zero larger-than-life comic book character "superstar" qualities. He looked like just some guy who happens to be good at grappling.
I mean... this is a clip about David - and the thumbnail shows Kerry because they talk about him towards the end, too. If that doesn't tell you everything you need to know about David's star potential or "x factor" (or whatever you want call it). Compared to Kerry, he had none. Kerry looked like Schwarzenegger in "Conan", David looked like the guy who drove the truck with the lighting equipment and prop rocks to the movie set.
Woke up, took a shit, toasted a bagel. I'm going to R A S S L I N. #lapsed
David and Kerry were almost neck and neck but David had other promoters in his favor. I think I remember reading Phil Mushnik (spelling) was a huge fan of David and that’s part of the reason he was in line to become future champion. Kerry could have been a bigger star had he not had substance abuse issues. He was talented and had a million dollar look. I always wondered why Kevin didn’t get the strap but I think Kevin wasn’t as into wrestling as the others. He always said he dreamed of playing for the Dallas Cowboys and I bet he would have done well too. So many possibilities had been there if people had made different choices.
the problem with Kevin was the southern territories were never going to take a barefoot world champion seriously.
Lmao @ :25 - :33
It is written
That was a pretty good album. I think Stillmatic is his best one though.
there were simply few people in the 80s who could draw in a way that would help the "nwa" / jcp compete with VKM and. david was a great NWA champ for another era but in the 80s would've been seen as vanilla by the sports entertainment crowd. kerry had look but not much else.
Up to 84 maybe David would be okay, but he was a bit meh for 85vand on.
I don't care what anyone says, that's funny
@@michaelsuder486 he just didn't fir the mold form 84 on. Same with Dibiase.
I always thought David was lame on the mic just like every Von Erich. I agree with Jim i just dont think he was a World Champion. If anything, a Kerry or a Ron Garvin reign
Yes don't need to listen
Eff it wrong place we're going home? Wow 🤣
The Von Erichs are the all time best such a tragedy
Had David lived and hit the juice.........
Making Kerry NWA Champ was a mistake
I bet the Von Erichs got really good drugs. Kerry vs Danhausen would have been a hell of a program in world class
David champion for a year, never would have happened.
Said the same thing. Honestly if David lives he goes to Crockett because Flair would've convinced him to leave.
They screwed kerry over first off! But had David won flair would not have so many title runs!
Plus had David lived he would have ran WCCW and they would be where garbage WWE is!
And Kerry would have been over Hogan and Flair period! So he's my Pick he fills all the roles!
David wasn't getting a long run. His matches were boring, couldn't draw. No promo, bad teeth, awkward in the ring. Just overrated. If he was going to have the belt, he would have already had it. Drug heads don't show up to work everyday.
In my opinion Magnum t a wasn't a major loss just because Dusty liked him and Crockett liked him and wanted him to be the next big thing watch the films he couldn't wrestle so what he did a belly to belly suplex well who can't do that move as far as wrestling no he couldn't his interview sucked he stumbled over his words then he would start yelling and David Crockett would save him and go to a commercial they kept pushing him on the fans almost destroyed Tully Blanchard career to get enough fans behind him so he could have the U S belt then he couldn't keep it together gets drunk and almost kills himself so then they had to replace him they come up with sting and he was alot better he could wrestle he could talk the fans was with him
I always thought Magnum was crazy overrated.
To me, Magnum always felt like his appeal would be strongest in the South, and he was very over in Crockett. The look, the mustache, the whole image, the kind of hokey name. I'm not sure that he would have been more than an upper mid-carder in WWF. Not a terrible promo but not great either.
@@TerryKeefeMedia he wouldn't have ever got the fan base in the WWF which I never liked the WWF well the attitude era was ok but that's all
I think Magnum TA had a great future with Crockett/WCW. Back then none of the wrestlers had amazing moves minus maybe the Steiners and Road Warriors' Doomsday finisher. Would he have done well in the WWF? Probably not. WWF was all about the gimmicks and over the top personalities. Crockett focused more on realistic characters which usually didn't translate very well when they went over to WWF. I loved the Four Horsemen when they were with Crockett, but I felt their WWF stints weren't near as good. Even Flair's time at WWF was a bit underwhelming. And Lex Luger's time over there was disappointing. Same with Barry Windham.
I would love to have seen a rivalry between Magnum TA and Barry Windham, or a rivalry between Mag's and Dusty Rhodes. I enjoyed Magnum's rivalries with Tully and Nikita.
@@AceGoodheart it wasn't about amazing moves back then it was about wrestling and fighting and talking on the microphone to get the fans excited and Magnum couldn't do any of it that good he stumbled over his words he could not wrestle and the reason none of the nwa guys had a great run in the WWF is because Vince hated the nwa because he couldn't beat them for years so when he became the only boss he made all of the nwa look like they were below the WWF stars
If-Kerry-had-kept-his-nose-clean-and-stayed-in-WWF-he-would-of-been-world-champ-sometime-in-93,94.95..I-would-think
Texas stadium would have had to have been booked months in advance. Ric had just gone 10 mins with Mike and couldn’t beat him🙄. David got to set the location and the date as a result of that. He was going to win it how long he would’ve kept it who knows what he was scheduled to win it
Why can't Jim just say: Kerry was the family fuck up
cuz they all were the family fuck up
Well, it’s because everyone but Jack Von Erich was the family frick up.