There is one dice pool system you didn't mention: _the median._ Roll, for example, 3d10 and pick _the middlemost_ value. Say you rolled 7, 5, 9, so you have to pick 7. That's true Gaussian distribution. You can add stuff on top of that too, though. Say you rolled a triple, that could have some special effect. You could also have exploding on 10, or a critical would be if you roll at least two 10s. And so on, and so forth. I love it.
As someone who teaches statistics, sadly you are wrong about single die systems. What you are mistaking is probability mass function (PMF) is not identical to cumulative probability distribution (CDF). Let us assume that your skill is 80 and you are trying to accomplish a task, the probability of rolling 80 or lower is P(X
I was just wondering this. People say "single die are too swingy" but not very many games tell you "now roll a D20 and get a 15.... only a 15", it's always a "or over/under" system. Although single die do miss-out on things like rolling on an uneven table for rare loot, better obscuring the math from the players and being able to have results under 5% or even 1%.
@@CuteKiller313 "Although single die do miss-out on things like rolling on an uneven table for rare loot, better obscuring the math from the players and being able to have results under 5% or even 1%." That isn't true, because generally a roll on a loot table wouldn't be using a game's core mechanic to roll on said table, it will be it's own sub-system, & often isn't even consistent within the context of a game (D&D adventures have featured their own unique loot tables since the beginning of the hobby, FFS). And if you want results under 5% to 1% just use a bigger shape of die, or simulate bigger shapes by chaining the dice shape of choice - see the extremely popular d66 tables, & then realize you can extend the concept with d20s to get a d400, d8k, etc simulated die.
I was using a website to calculate dice averages. I found that a dice pool system where you roll all kinds of dice and then get to pick X amount of those dice (like Cortex), it is kind of a combination between dice pools and 2d6. According to the math, it is still very much a probability curve, but every time you add dice to the pool that curve shifts towards higher numbers with each one
Very good break down. The building a dice pool for future use would be very cool for a heist game. I have a space fantasy setting I've been wanting to put mechanics too. I've thought on 2d10 -- but doubles gives the "yes but / no but" - but i'm leaning more towards a d6 dice pool of different colors for character, gear, bonus and some trigger gives extra dice the player can use immediately for enhancements to abilities / items or hold onto them to add to dice pools later for either the encounter, or until there is a rest.
For the TTRPG I decided to try something a bit different. A variable 2 two dice system with a Primary and Secondary die. Everyone starts with a 2d6 for rolling checks. But stuff like skills and exhaustion can effect the size of your Primary or Secondary dice. Or even completely disable the secondary die if things are dire. Still early playtesting and balancing, but so far has been fun.
@@LeVynss I am still working on it slowly, adding to it whenever I have time or ideas. But I feel like I am getting closer to getting the base framework solidified.
Super simple way to calculate average roll. Take each die cut its highest value in half and add 0.5 1d6 3.5 2d6 7 3d6 10.5 1d4 2.5 1d20 plus 1d12 plus 1d8 10.5+6.5+4.5=21.5 There are different mental loads associated with different math operations. Comparison operations are the easiest and work best in long sessions. Then single digit addition, then single digit subtraction. Etc. This actually matters in my experience.
I've grown very fond of the Year Zero Engine dice pools. You have stats that go to 5 that you pair 2 kf (like vampire). You roll d6s and only a 6 is a success. You can also push a failed roll to roll again, but you suffer some consequence when you do (the specific consequence varies depending on the specific version of the system).
@WhatisTableTop I genuinely believe it is an innovative approach. The three pools are effort pools based on a PCs base Natures (Substance, Essence, Energy). These natures each govern 2 Attributes (Substance-Physique/Finesse, Essence-Intuition/Charisma, Energy-Vitality/Intelligence). You roll 5d4 per Nature (min5/max20)/mean 13) and distribute them however you want into their associated attributes. Once you have those, the Natures will each become a pool of effort you can spend per full-rest, and that effort is used in skill checks and attack rolls. Every 4 levels your effort die size increases (d4->6->8->10->12->20) to represent a characters potential to do more work increase. Stereotype(race) gives you your Hardiness, and your Class gives you your Conditioning. These are both hit-die you roll every level for a bonus to HP (which is now Constitution). The max roll of your Hardiness is your AC (or Toughness in my game, representing how tough it is to do you harm). Boom. Elegant too. I have more systems like crafting and spellcasting, but they don't use math as much as they use logic flows (I am a philosopher so that comes naturally). Anyway that's like the core summed up not so perfectly. 🙂
2d20 bell curve. Stats that give bonuses. Alternatively 2d12 bell curve, 13 is your 50/50 split and most common, but then you have an 11 range so bonuses need to be a bit tighter. Still working on what character creation and bonuses look like so it can inform dice range better.
Ironclaw/Urban Jungle had a dice pool ladder system where, each thing is rated on the dice size, bigger is better, so you want to swim, your a crappy sailor, your base speed is a d8, your sailor profession gives you a die in swimming (d4. Cause your a trap sailor) and you added additional points to swimming, so d6. You roll a d8, d4, and d6, and if any of them roll over a certain number, you succeed, and multiple dice rolling over gives you extra bonuses. It's basically the ultimate dice goblin game.
For "infinitely" exploding dice - at least the variant where the additional dice subtract 1, so a 6 is possible on an exploding d6; Roll20 calls this "penetrating dice" - the average is 0.5 higher. So a regular d6 has a 3.5 average, and penetrating has 4.0. A regular d8 has a 4.5 average, and penetrating is 5.0. The difference is in feel and excitement vs. any mechanical advantage.
That's because they are note equivalent. 2d10 and d100 are two different things. d100 has distinctive 10s and 1s dice. 2d10 system would have two same dies, so order does not matter. d100 has range of 1-100, 2d10 is additive and has range of 2-20.
You forgot to mention that with a pool of dice (not only with funky dice) you can have different colors having different meaning, the example you mentioned with vampire only apply for hunger dice. This means you get have from a single roll so much more information that with a single die, however if you have too many pools/color a single roll could be to slow to read.
2d10 is the better system for anything related to DnD 3e and up. Also dice averages over multiple dice are easy. The average of a d6 is 3.5 so 2d6 is 7, 3d6 is 10.5, and 4d6 is... you guessed it 14. Since you can't roll a 0 on most dice, for each even numbered dice it's half the number plus .5. Then add them together. 2d8 is 9, 2d10 is 11, d8 + d6 is 8 etc.
Thanks! This is definitely something I’m still fleshing out with the hopes to have it ready to release sometime next year! So be on the lookout for that - Frank
" Bell curves, dice pools, d66 tables and more are possible." You realize that you can do bell-curve rolls, pools, & tables with ANY size of dice, right? d6s are popular because they are the easiest & cheapest dice to acquire, & they're the easiest & cheapest dice to acquire because they are the easiest to manufacture... NOT because the d6 is somehow inherently superior to other shapes of dice. In terms of utility - you can do MUCH more with a d20; it maps cleanly to a % range (the old 5% rule, or use 2d20 as a 2d10 percent roll), it downsizes to 4 smaller dice shapes vs 2 (d10, d5, d4, & d2 vs. d3 & d2), & for tables a bigger range is ALWAYS better
Ice cold take from me: d20 is the most fun at my table. BUT not because it's swingy, but rather in spite of it. The swinginess is probably the top reason why many newer players to this space question the d20 in the first place. But I don't want 2d10, or 2d12, or 3d6, or anything that trends towards the center either. I also want my enemies to roll the same dice as my players, and I want crit fails to exist. AND I don't want a billion modifiers to send the checks into the 30s. So what do I do? I raise the minimum. For example, in 5e, Expertise allows you to add your proficiency modifier (most of us know this to be the flat value that increases over the life of the character which gets added to certain checks the player specs into) twice to a roll. I don't use that. I make it so Expertise treats a 1-6 on the d20 as a 7. Rogue players might recognize this as Reliable Talent. Later on, when I changed up numbers, I went even further and treated a 1-9 as a 10, and made Expertise more common. So a player who specifically builds for success cannot crit fail (we use this rule for ability checks), and also rarely fails at all. But not because their bonuses are huge, but because the roll floor is high. This makes them strong not because all the dice in the game trend toward success, but because their specific skills trend toward success in a system that is extremely swingy. They become the outliers, but higher difficulty checks don't become pushover challenges either.
With kids on brooms, the reliability of dice is promoted by being able to succeed if half of your die + your bonus would succeed, you can just succeed in most situations.
I wish people who say stingy had a better idea of what they mean. Most RPG rolls have two outcomes, success or failure. It matter not whether the d20 goes really high or really low. What matters is whether it rolls a success or failure. A D20 permits the GM to set difficulties in 5% increments. A D10 provides 10% increments. A D4 provides 25% increments. But for skill and save checks, each provides inclusiveness and failure. The same test with D100 or even D1000 and similar odds would be no more swingy.
The answer depends on what we're defining as 'funky dice', but the short answer is it's not a problem. 1st of all, d4s, d8s, d10s, d12s, & d20s aren't dependent on a single manufacturer; & in order for them to completely vanish off the market the whole hobby (& probably related hobbies, like CCGs, wargames, & board-games) would have to basically die... in which case you wouldn't need the dice anyway. Mind, not all of those dice have equal popularity - the most popular being d6s, then d20s, then d10s... but notably in the countries where it's hard to get non-d6s games that use weirder dice have never become that popular anyway. Then you have more funky shapes... eg. d7s, d16s, d24s, d30s, d60s, etc. So, to begin with sans d7s & d14s you can actually simulate most of the funkier shapes with the more popular shapes... eg. 2d6 can be mapped to d12, d18, & d36 results very easily. That also applies in reverse, a 1d60 can also be used as a 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d5, 1d6, 1d10, 1d12, 1d15, 1d20, & 1d30. Which actually creates a market demand for 1d60s because of how multi-purpose they are. And finally, we have dice with funky face-signs ala the Genesys system. Which frankly, I would call generally a bad design choice... but honestly it isn't really that hard to translate standard-face dice into funky-face dice using tables, marking the dice, stickers, etc. So long as you can get the right shape/#-of-sides (& of again, allowing for translation between dice shapes), you'll probably be OK. TL;DR - unless your game of choice uses d7s & d14s with custom faces, &/or you move to a small island nation in the pacific, you're probably fine.
2d10 where are you at and generate a number between two and 20 would be a bell curve in the same way that 2dr is… for D10. You’re using one die in the tennis place and another guy in the ones place.
@@3nertia 2d10 is not the same as d100. 2d10 (where you sum the numbers) is a curve, d100 (even if simulated by 2d10) is uniformly distributed. There are no multiple ways to get the same number on a d100.
@@kaqqao Unless if you're using modifiers obviously, which is interesting if you have opposition rolls, cause you could have char A with an output of 57 but no modifiers involved because he/she isn't trained let's say, and char B have 57 but with a modifier of +X in it because he/she is trained I don't know if it changes things though, in terms of pure maths
Have you guys ever heard of percentile dice? It's where you take two ten-sided dice with one die being the ones column and the other being the tens column. It's very exotic, im sure that's why you didn't include it so I figured i'd mention it here. Games like Mythras and Call of Cthulhu use this.
We consider percentile dice to be like the signal dice system. There doesn’t seem to be to much of a difference between rolling a d100 and a d20 in our opinion
@@WhatisTableTop most percentile games don't add modifiers to the roll, and unless you're playing with an actual d100, the chances of a 1 or a 100 are greatly reduced. I suppose you're partially correct, it is not it's own system, but is say it's closer to a 2 dice system
The only functional difference between rolling a *single* die and rolling d% is the specific percentage chance per result. (5% per number for d20, 1% for d%, 12.5% for d8, etc) They are all linear distributions, so even tho you're rolling two dice for the d%, it's a "single die" result. You could roll a true d100 or two d10's or even two of those old d20's, numbered 0-9 twice, and they'd all statistically be the same. And d% is about as exotic as D&D, so yes, everyone's heard of it. In fact, the first competitors of D&D, Tunnels & Trolls, and Runequest, were both d% systems. So is RoleMaster. And they all use mods to rolls.
@@MemphiStig That's true. Dice modifiers in "single die" games are the big problem. Percentile dice games don't generally add modifiers, they give you a flat target to hit. This is one of the several failings of the d20 system. Percentile dice rolls never give a modifier outside of the range of the dice roll, the d20 system does.
So hear me out. Dice pool, but without limits, 5&6 are successes & 6's explode. like shadowrun 5e. And to do it quickly, use a dice roller on your phone. Allows for infinite growth and villains who could legit have 30 dc where the player's success probability says to roll ~70 dice for the pool to normally succeed. But maybe dial it down say with a critical system like... Blow some resource like stamina to roll like a crit die, if it's a 5 or 6 it doubles the successes. And for some extra dice, allow for said resource to be spent to add more dice in general probably a 1to1 ratio. Makes villains feel crazy strong when you say, yeah so that's a 30 dc. - But mr. gm I only have 30 dice. Better buff that roll and hope for a good crit dice - but this still feels possible since there's a decent chance you get like 40 successes with a decently high roll, or your dice just explode off the rocker. Then for extra reward maybe have the player get back said resource for each success over the dc or deal more dmg for each success higher. Something, maybe both, just to make the success feel really good - feed the gambling with the resource, and growing your base line with the dice pool.
I'm designing an opposed d10 system. Basically, the. GM rolls a die to set the difficulty and the player rolls a die, with success being the higher roll
There are so many different dice systems out there than just roll. One die… Take a look at the fantasy flight games narrative dice… Look at Gerts look at champions or hero… Look at games like shadow run or world of darkness where you have dice pools.
Is so weird to me that people would choose a game because of the system over the theme. That is why as indie dev IMO you should have your games with at least 2 systems.
They both are integral to each other in some cases. I personally love unique systems, like how I love game mechanics. They're what makes the fun in a lot of cases. Malifaux has an awesome card based system that fits well with the western inspiration and themes of fate. Your deck stays the same and you will always pull the same cards, but in different orders. It has such a beautiful thematic feeling. I am making my own ttrpg where the skills are flat numbers you compare and you are rewarded for creative thinking or advantageous traits with an additional d6 to add to it. I think it helps the issue of having a great idea and then completely screwing it up because your rolled a 1. I also have a friend with bad luck and wanted to give him something to feel more capable in. I don't want players to feel like they failed just because of bad luck, especially if they have a cool idea that I would also like to see as a gm.
The game system is just as important to me as theme, sometimes more important. I can usually adopt a different theme to a system even if it's not a generic system. But adopting better rules into a good theme is very difficult.
The D10 system is shit. There is an optimal dice pool size, that gives the best rate of success. 7. This means a character with a Manipulation + Politics pool of 7 have a better chance of winning an argument versus his defendant's Charisma + Politics pool of 8. This is bad design. Do not recommend.
How is a single d20 swingy? If you've set a target no. of 15 you're telling the player she has a 30% chance of success. How is that swingy? Yes, a d20 is chunky, if that's a problem for you, roll percentiles.
Great video! You should do some of the more obscure dice systems, like Pure dice pool (like risus where you actually do just add all the dice up) Poker deck (parts of deadlands and specifically the initiative system for savage world, also popular for many solo indie games) Custom cards (everway and phoenix command) Pure diceless (amber diceless rpgs, and lords of gossamer and shadow) Dexterity game (the tearable rpg) Rock paper scissors (many custom rules light, rules lite, and micro rpgs) Resource mechanic (one of the older marvel rpgs and dream askew) Btw of these i only played risus.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
There is one dice pool system you didn't mention: _the median._ Roll, for example, 3d10 and pick _the middlemost_ value. Say you rolled 7, 5, 9, so you have to pick 7. That's true Gaussian distribution. You can add stuff on top of that too, though. Say you rolled a triple, that could have some special effect. You could also have exploding on 10, or a critical would be if you roll at least two 10s. And so on, and so forth. I love it.
Working on my own Skill based, D10 dice pool system. Thanks for the great vid guys!
I love your idea of adding more dice to your pool by doing prep work or spending resources; neat!
Shadowrun does this, as it does with optional skills being essentially a help action
As someone who teaches statistics, sadly you are wrong about single die systems. What you are mistaking is probability mass function (PMF) is not identical to cumulative probability distribution (CDF). Let us assume that your skill is 80 and you are trying to accomplish a task, the probability of rolling 80 or lower is P(X
Thanks for the correction! I am terrible at math, stats included! - Charles
I was just wondering this. People say "single die are too swingy" but not very many games tell you "now roll a D20 and get a 15.... only a 15", it's always a "or over/under" system. Although single die do miss-out on things like rolling on an uneven table for rare loot, better obscuring the math from the players and being able to have results under 5% or even 1%.
@@CuteKiller313 "Although single die do miss-out on things like rolling on an uneven table for rare loot, better obscuring the math from the players and being able to have results under 5% or even 1%."
That isn't true, because generally a roll on a loot table wouldn't be using a game's core mechanic to roll on said table, it will be it's own sub-system, & often isn't even consistent within the context of a game (D&D adventures have featured their own unique loot tables since the beginning of the hobby, FFS).
And if you want results under 5% to 1% just use a bigger shape of die, or simulate bigger shapes by chaining the dice shape of choice - see the extremely popular d66 tables, & then realize you can extend the concept with d20s to get a d400, d8k, etc simulated die.
I do wonder why do many terrible at probability Youtobers lot to make five videos, and then all repeat the same inaccurate points.
I was using a website to calculate dice averages. I found that a dice pool system where you roll all kinds of dice and then get to pick X amount of those dice (like Cortex), it is kind of a combination between dice pools and 2d6. According to the math, it is still very much a probability curve, but every time you add dice to the pool that curve shifts towards higher numbers with each one
Very good break down. The building a dice pool for future use would be very cool for a heist game. I have a space fantasy setting I've been wanting to put mechanics too. I've thought on 2d10 -- but doubles gives the "yes but / no but" - but i'm leaning more towards a d6 dice pool of different colors for character, gear, bonus and some trigger gives extra dice the player can use immediately for enhancements to abilities / items or hold onto them to add to dice pools later for either the encounter, or until there is a rest.
For the TTRPG I decided to try something a bit different. A variable 2 two dice system with a Primary and Secondary die.
Everyone starts with a 2d6 for rolling checks. But stuff like skills and exhaustion can effect the size of your Primary or Secondary dice. Or even completely disable the secondary die if things are dire.
Still early playtesting and balancing, but so far has been fun.
Any update on your system ?
@@LeVynss I am still working on it slowly, adding to it whenever I have time or ideas. But I feel like I am getting closer to getting the base framework solidified.
Great video. I love these kinds if talks.
Super simple way to calculate average roll. Take each die cut its highest value in half and add 0.5
1d6 3.5
2d6 7
3d6 10.5
1d4 2.5
1d20 plus 1d12 plus 1d8 10.5+6.5+4.5=21.5
There are different mental loads associated with different math operations. Comparison operations are the easiest and work best in long sessions. Then single digit addition, then single digit subtraction. Etc. This actually matters in my experience.
Shadowrun 5e: DICEPILE!! with limits XD
I've grown very fond of the Year Zero Engine dice pools. You have stats that go to 5 that you pair 2 kf (like vampire). You roll d6s and only a 6 is a success. You can also push a failed roll to roll again, but you suffer some consequence when you do (the specific consequence varies depending on the specific version of the system).
Im just using 3 dice pools full of d4's. Dice size goes up every 4 or so levels. Players have 2 hit-die, with 1 of them providing an AC=max roll.
That seems like an interesting system, keep us posted on it! - Frank
@WhatisTableTop I genuinely believe it is an innovative approach. The three pools are effort pools based on a PCs base Natures (Substance, Essence, Energy). These natures each govern 2 Attributes (Substance-Physique/Finesse, Essence-Intuition/Charisma, Energy-Vitality/Intelligence). You roll 5d4 per Nature (min5/max20)/mean 13) and distribute them however you want into their associated attributes. Once you have those, the Natures will each become a pool of effort you can spend per full-rest, and that effort is used in skill checks and attack rolls. Every 4 levels your effort die size increases (d4->6->8->10->12->20) to represent a characters potential to do more work increase. Stereotype(race) gives you your Hardiness, and your Class gives you your Conditioning. These are both hit-die you roll every level for a bonus to HP (which is now Constitution). The max roll of your Hardiness is your AC (or Toughness in my game, representing how tough it is to do you harm). Boom. Elegant too. I have more systems like crafting and spellcasting, but they don't use math as much as they use logic flows (I am a philosopher so that comes naturally). Anyway that's like the core summed up not so perfectly. 🙂
2d20 bell curve. Stats that give bonuses.
Alternatively 2d12 bell curve, 13 is your 50/50 split and most common, but then you have an 11 range so bonuses need to be a bit tighter.
Still working on what character creation and bonuses look like so it can inform dice range better.
2d anything is A triangle ( like a pyramid) and not a curve.
Ironclaw/Urban Jungle had a dice pool ladder system where, each thing is rated on the dice size, bigger is better, so you want to swim, your a crappy sailor, your base speed is a d8, your sailor profession gives you a die in swimming (d4. Cause your a trap sailor) and you added additional points to swimming, so d6.
You roll a d8, d4, and d6, and if any of them roll over a certain number, you succeed, and multiple dice rolling over gives you extra bonuses.
It's basically the ultimate dice goblin game.
You guys are so good. Please dont stop maling videos guys.
For "infinitely" exploding dice - at least the variant where the additional dice subtract 1, so a 6 is possible on an exploding d6; Roll20 calls this "penetrating dice" - the average is 0.5 higher. So a regular d6 has a 3.5 average, and penetrating has 4.0. A regular d8 has a 4.5 average, and penetrating is 5.0. The difference is in feel and excitement vs. any mechanical advantage.
All of them. People just like rolling dice
Speaking of maths it just came to me as an amusing thought that we would call 2d10 d100 but we wouldn't call 2d6 d36
That's because they are note equivalent. 2d10 and d100 are two different things. d100 has distinctive 10s and 1s dice. 2d10 system would have two same dies, so order does not matter. d100 has range of 1-100, 2d10 is additive and has range of 2-20.
You forgot to mention that with a pool of dice (not only with funky dice) you can have different colors having different meaning, the example you mentioned with vampire only apply for hunger dice. This means you get have from a single roll so much more information that with a single die, however if you have too many pools/color a single roll could be to slow to read.
2d10 is the better system for anything related to DnD 3e and up.
Also dice averages over multiple dice are easy. The average of a d6 is 3.5 so 2d6 is 7, 3d6 is 10.5, and 4d6 is... you guessed it 14. Since you can't roll a 0 on most dice, for each even numbered dice it's half the number plus .5. Then add them together. 2d8 is 9, 2d10 is 11, d8 + d6 is 8 etc.
I like the idea you had at the end. You should work on that some more. I think you're onto something useful.
Thanks! This is definitely something I’m still fleshing out with the hopes to have it ready to release sometime next year! So be on the lookout for that - Frank
D6 is the only die you need. Beautiful cubes. Bell curves, dice pools, d66 tables and more are possible.
D6 System for the win!
" Bell curves, dice pools, d66 tables and more are possible." You realize that you can do bell-curve rolls, pools, & tables with ANY size of dice, right?
d6s are popular because they are the easiest & cheapest dice to acquire, & they're the easiest & cheapest dice to acquire because they are the easiest to manufacture... NOT because the d6 is somehow inherently superior to other shapes of dice.
In terms of utility - you can do MUCH more with a d20; it maps cleanly to a % range (the old 5% rule, or use 2d20 as a 2d10 percent roll), it downsizes to 4 smaller dice shapes vs 2 (d10, d5, d4, & d2 vs. d3 & d2), & for tables a bigger range is ALWAYS better
I ran Champions/Hero System for more than 10 years. I got really good at adding large numbers of dice (20 to 30 d6 was not uncommon).
Ice cold take from me: d20 is the most fun at my table.
BUT not because it's swingy, but rather in spite of it. The swinginess is probably the top reason why many newer players to this space question the d20 in the first place. But I don't want 2d10, or 2d12, or 3d6, or anything that trends towards the center either. I also want my enemies to roll the same dice as my players, and I want crit fails to exist. AND I don't want a billion modifiers to send the checks into the 30s.
So what do I do? I raise the minimum. For example, in 5e, Expertise allows you to add your proficiency modifier (most of us know this to be the flat value that increases over the life of the character which gets added to certain checks the player specs into) twice to a roll. I don't use that. I make it so Expertise treats a 1-6 on the d20 as a 7. Rogue players might recognize this as Reliable Talent.
Later on, when I changed up numbers, I went even further and treated a 1-9 as a 10, and made Expertise more common.
So a player who specifically builds for success cannot crit fail (we use this rule for ability checks), and also rarely fails at all. But not because their bonuses are huge, but because the roll floor is high. This makes them strong not because all the dice in the game trend toward success, but because their specific skills trend toward success in a system that is extremely swingy. They become the outliers, but higher difficulty checks don't become pushover challenges either.
With kids on brooms, the reliability of dice is promoted by being able to succeed if half of your die + your bonus would succeed, you can just succeed in most situations.
I wish people who say stingy had a better idea of what they mean.
Most RPG rolls have two outcomes, success or failure.
It matter not whether the d20 goes really high or really low.
What matters is whether it rolls a success or failure.
A D20 permits the GM to set difficulties in 5% increments.
A D10 provides 10% increments.
A D4 provides 25% increments.
But for skill and save checks, each provides inclusiveness and failure.
The same test with D100 or even D1000 and similar odds would be no more swingy.
The math is not hard on dice pools. You get inverse exponential curves of success with diminishing returns
A big problem with the funky dice is what happens if the company stops making them?
The answer depends on what we're defining as 'funky dice', but the short answer is it's not a problem.
1st of all, d4s, d8s, d10s, d12s, & d20s aren't dependent on a single manufacturer; & in order for them to completely vanish off the market the whole hobby (& probably related hobbies, like CCGs, wargames, & board-games) would have to basically die... in which case you wouldn't need the dice anyway.
Mind, not all of those dice have equal popularity - the most popular being d6s, then d20s, then d10s... but notably in the countries where it's hard to get non-d6s games that use weirder dice have never become that popular anyway.
Then you have more funky shapes... eg. d7s, d16s, d24s, d30s, d60s, etc. So, to begin with sans d7s & d14s you can actually simulate most of the funkier shapes with the more popular shapes... eg. 2d6 can be mapped to d12, d18, & d36 results very easily. That also applies in reverse, a 1d60 can also be used as a 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d5, 1d6, 1d10, 1d12, 1d15, 1d20, & 1d30. Which actually creates a market demand for 1d60s because of how multi-purpose they are.
And finally, we have dice with funky face-signs ala the Genesys system. Which frankly, I would call generally a bad design choice... but honestly it isn't really that hard to translate standard-face dice into funky-face dice using tables, marking the dice, stickers, etc. So long as you can get the right shape/#-of-sides (& of again, allowing for translation between dice shapes), you'll probably be OK.
TL;DR - unless your game of choice uses d7s & d14s with custom faces, &/or you move to a small island nation in the pacific, you're probably fine.
So a d100 (2d10) would be a dice curve system?
In my opinion a d100 is a one dice system, because you aren’t adding the two d10 results together but are using them to determine one number - Frank
2d10 where are you at and generate a number between two and 20 would be a bell curve in the same way that 2dr is… for D10. You’re using one die in the tennis place and another guy in the ones place.
1d10 or 2d6s is my preference
So, Cyberpunk and Traveller?
d100 systems give significantly more options than 1d20 or 1d6. Why? Because it is two dice.
So a d100 (2d10) would be a dice curve system?
@@3nertia 2d10 is not the same as d100. 2d10 (where you sum the numbers) is a curve, d100 (even if simulated by 2d10) is uniformly distributed. There are no multiple ways to get the same number on a d100.
@@kaqqao Unless if you're using modifiers obviously, which is interesting if you have opposition rolls, cause you could have char A with an output of 57 but no modifiers involved because he/she isn't trained let's say, and char B have 57 but with a modifier of +X in it because he/she is trained
I don't know if it changes things though, in terms of pure maths
Have you guys ever heard of percentile dice? It's where you take two ten-sided dice with one die being the ones column and the other being the tens column. It's very exotic, im sure that's why you didn't include it so I figured i'd mention it here. Games like Mythras and Call of Cthulhu use this.
We consider percentile dice to be like the signal dice system. There doesn’t seem to be to much of a difference between rolling a d100 and a d20 in our opinion
@@WhatisTableTop most percentile games don't add modifiers to the roll, and unless you're playing with an actual d100, the chances of a 1 or a 100 are greatly reduced. I suppose you're partially correct, it is not it's own system, but is say it's closer to a 2 dice system
@@kdolo1887All numbers from 01 -100 (or 00 - 99, however you read them) are equally probable in the standard d10,d10 -> 'd100' rolling method.
The only functional difference between rolling a *single* die and rolling d% is the specific percentage chance per result. (5% per number for d20, 1% for d%, 12.5% for d8, etc) They are all linear distributions, so even tho you're rolling two dice for the d%, it's a "single die" result. You could roll a true d100 or two d10's or even two of those old d20's, numbered 0-9 twice, and they'd all statistically be the same. And d% is about as exotic as D&D, so yes, everyone's heard of it. In fact, the first competitors of D&D, Tunnels & Trolls, and Runequest, were both d% systems. So is RoleMaster. And they all use mods to rolls.
@@MemphiStig That's true. Dice modifiers in "single die" games are the big problem. Percentile dice games don't generally add modifiers, they give you a flat target to hit. This is one of the several failings of the d20 system. Percentile dice rolls never give a modifier outside of the range of the dice roll, the d20 system does.
So hear me out. Dice pool, but without limits, 5&6 are successes & 6's explode. like shadowrun 5e. And to do it quickly, use a dice roller on your phone. Allows for infinite growth and villains who could legit have 30 dc where the player's success probability says to roll ~70 dice for the pool to normally succeed.
But maybe dial it down say with a critical system like... Blow some resource like stamina to roll like a crit die, if it's a 5 or 6 it doubles the successes. And for some extra dice, allow for said resource to be spent to add more dice in general probably a 1to1 ratio.
Makes villains feel crazy strong when you say, yeah so that's a 30 dc. - But mr. gm I only have 30 dice. Better buff that roll and hope for a good crit dice - but this still feels possible since there's a decent chance you get like 40 successes with a decently high roll, or your dice just explode off the rocker.
Then for extra reward maybe have the player get back said resource for each success over the dc or deal more dmg for each success higher. Something, maybe both, just to make the success feel really good - feed the gambling with the resource, and growing your base line with the dice pool.
I'm designing an opposed d10 system. Basically, the. GM rolls a die to set the difficulty and the player rolls a die, with success being the higher roll
There are so many different dice systems out there than just roll. One die… Take a look at the fantasy flight games narrative dice… Look at Gerts look at champions or hero… Look at games like shadow run or world of darkness where you have dice pools.
Is so weird to me that people would choose a game because of the system over the theme. That is why as indie dev IMO you should have your games with at least 2 systems.
They both are integral to each other in some cases. I personally love unique systems, like how I love game mechanics. They're what makes the fun in a lot of cases.
Malifaux has an awesome card based system that fits well with the western inspiration and themes of fate. Your deck stays the same and you will always pull the same cards, but in different orders. It has such a beautiful thematic feeling.
I am making my own ttrpg where the skills are flat numbers you compare and you are rewarded for creative thinking or advantageous traits with an additional d6 to add to it. I think it helps the issue of having a great idea and then completely screwing it up because your rolled a 1. I also have a friend with bad luck and wanted to give him something to feel more capable in. I don't want players to feel like they failed just because of bad luck, especially if they have a cool idea that I would also like to see as a gm.
Depends on the type of RPGer you are. A good theme can draw my eye but you must have a good system or else I'm gone.
The game system is just as important to me as theme, sometimes more important. I can usually adopt a different theme to a system even if it's not a generic system. But adopting better rules into a good theme is very difficult.
@@GrizzledNoob exactly! I can adapt a system to a different theme.
The D10 system is shit. There is an optimal dice pool size, that gives the best rate of success. 7. This means a character with a Manipulation + Politics pool of 7 have a better chance of winning an argument versus his defendant's Charisma + Politics pool of 8. This is bad design. Do not recommend.
Dead lands… Savage lands… The roll one die is the simplest type system, but really the least interesting
How is a single d20 swingy? If you've set a target no. of 15 you're telling the player she has a 30% chance of success. How is that swingy? Yes, a d20 is chunky, if that's a problem for you, roll percentiles.
I'll forever be made fun of by my group for sucking horribly at mental math, yet having passed all my engineering classes in college.
Great video! You should do some of the more obscure dice systems, like
Pure dice pool (like risus where you actually do just add all the dice up)
Poker deck (parts of deadlands and specifically the initiative system for savage world, also popular for many solo indie games)
Custom cards (everway and phoenix command)
Pure diceless (amber diceless rpgs, and lords of gossamer and shadow)
Dexterity game (the tearable rpg)
Rock paper scissors (many custom rules light, rules lite, and micro rpgs)
Resource mechanic (one of the older marvel rpgs and dream askew)
Btw of these i only played risus.
Thanks for all these examples!
@@WhatisTableTop your welcome