Should Muslims Accept Prof Michael Behe’s Intelligent Design Argument?
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
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Brother Paul, I have to thank you. I took my shahadah a couple of days ago, your insightful and deep videos on islam helped immensely with my ultimate choice. I've never felt so happy, never felt that connection with a community, being part of something like this. I love it.
Welcome back home, dearest Brother in-faith! Masha'Allah!
Welcome to Islam dear brother/ or dear sister. Sorry i cannot guess from your username. Take your time to learn Islam and practice Islam properly. Most important is learning wudu and the 5 daily prayers - there is no timetable ( about your pace of learning) - so do not stress yourself. And then slowly implement Islam in your life. You dont want to "burn-out" because you try to change overnight. I used to be a dawaah volunteer - so my suggestions come from care and concern. - a sister from Singapore (:
@@lilyrosesoul0077- Very important advice.
May Allah accept your shahadah and aid you on the path
Welcome brother/sister, may Allah make things easy for you and grants you strength, your journey starts now!
ASSALAMU'ALEYKUM MY BROTHERS, From Indonesia.
Ikut nyimak
Prophet Muhammad was a slave owner and practiced slavery
ALLAH in Quran explicitly and unambiguously authorized Muhammad to recieve 20% of War looting and plunder including 20% of women captured after wars as slaves
Slavery was abolished in1800 but is still Endorsed in Quran and cannot be erased because it is the word of Allah
Muhammad Alli and Malcom X were not aware of the fact of Prophet Muhammad being a slave owner and practiced slaveryIslam at its brilliant best in Oppression of women
Islam systematically robs women of their dignity and what is worse women accept it as divine
Islam survives through crooked arguments and crocked think
Prophet Muhammad was a slave owner and practiced slavery
ALLAH in Quran explicitly and unambiguously authorized Muhammad to recieve 20% of War looting and plunder including 20% of women captured after wars as slaves
Slavery was abolished in1800 but is still Endorsed in Quran and cannot be erased because it is the word of Allah
Muhammad Alli and Malcom X were not aware of the fact of Prophet Muhammad being a slave owner and practiced slaveryIslam at its brilliant best in Oppression of women
Islam systematically robs women of their dignity and what is worse women accept it as divine
Allhamdillah! I'll be listening to you while driving the truck for job. Jazakallah brother Paul you make my job a great learning experience.
Paul, what you do on your channel is amazing. Such works of Sheikh Hamza help us, as a Muslim society, regain our relationship with science that we have lost (maybe a little, maybe a lot, but definitely lost) in the last 4-5 centuries. It is very important that we regain this relationship. Because, as the valuable Kurdish Sunni religious scholar Bediuzzaman Said Nursi, who lived in Turkey between 1877 and 1960, said: “Victory against the civilized will be through persuasion. The sword has been sheathed in this century” and the only way to do this is to use science.
Jazaakumullaahu khairan brother Paul for the wonderful conversation!
Alhamdulillah for brothers like Paul and Imam Tom and many others who have occupied this space, continue to equip and educate the ummah and give us intellectual tools, make it abit easier for the layman to understand and defend the Islamic position on these kind of arguments.
Fajar time ❤ Good morning
Well I use intelligent causation or design argument regardless but what an absolutely amazing video from you guys. Thank you and may almighty Allaah bless you.
May Allah Bless Both of You in this Life and in the Hereafter.
Thanks very nice video good jobs brother Jazaak Allah
Assalamualeykum and good morning from Nairobi
Wa alaykumu s-salam
I must say the points at 56 minutes and forward is pure gold, that slide is essential to understanding the crux of the matter at hand.
The more the understanding of the universe evolves through various scientific advances, the more God reveals himself to us in obvious ways. in other words, science does not deny the existence of God but reveals it!
Thank you so much dear brother Paul and thanks to your guest🙏
It would be great to have Behe as a guest.. I have the books and watched a number of his videos.. I find it fascinating that he and similar scientists have done a great job analyzing this to such a great detail but yet forgiven/ignored so much of editing of Bible and evolution of Christianity… a conversation would be very interesting…
Or perhaps Dr Stephen Meyer
Thanks 🙏 Brother Paul for introducing Brother Hamza on your channel. And Jazak Allah Khair for your continuous efforts to showcase Islam and introduce well educated Muslim scholars fluent in both the Deen and Dunya to the English speaking Ummah in the West and the non-Muslins around the world 🌎 🎉
You are most welcome Sir....
Assalamu alaykum, bit of a strange ask but is there any way you can perhaps discuss Timur Kuran's work, notably the book he wrote on how Islamic Economic Institutions made the Middle East backwards? My aim in life is to specialise in Islamic Commercial Law and help Muslims earn in a halal, riba-free way, however coming across his work has made me consider criticisms I have never come across before. It's not a typical Orientalist work either (the author is Turkish and has a strong background in Shari'ah law) which makes it more worth discussing. Jazakallah khayr, I love your channel and have learnt so much.
Asslmkm Bro Paul. Jazakallah for the interview with Bro Hamzah. Could you do interview with Bro. Shahiid Bolsen. Must be interesting and enlighten to hear his thinking too. Salamualeykum.
Barak Allahu feekum ..may Allah bless you Paul and all the brothers working with you and bless and sincere commentators
🎯 *Key Takeaways* for quick navigation:
00:02 🎙️ Sheikh Hamza Karamali discusses irreducible complexity and Michael Behe's argument from an Islamic perspective.
02:33 🧪 Behe's "Darwin's Black Box" argues for irreducible complexity, suggesting that certain biological complexity couldn't evolve gradually but requires supernatural intervention.
05:41 🤖 Behe's argument presents a dichotomy: biological design is either due to natural or supernatural causes.
08:21 🧬 Behe's argument challenges materialism, as it allows for supernatural intervention in natural processes.
10:05 🧪 Behe uses the bacterial flagellum as an example of irreducible complexity, implying it couldn't evolve gradually through natural selection.
12:33 🤖 Behe doesn't deny evolution but suggests occasional supernatural intervention to account for irreducible complexity.
21:56 💭 Weak materialism, from Behe's perspective, allows for supernatural agency alongside natural causes, leading to a philosophical conflict with strong materialism.
28:09 🤔 Materialists argue that proponents of Intelligent Design should keep their conclusion of a supernatural designer open to scientific inquiry, fostering discussion.
29:30 👥 Materialists and Intelligent Design advocates engage in back-and-forth discussions and provide evidence for their respective positions.
31:24 📚 Disagreements between materialists and Intelligent Design proponents should remain civil and within the realm of scientific and academic discussion.
33:04 🕊️ Methodological naturalism is a concept in which scientists seek natural causes for phenomena, while a Muslim scientist searches for associations God has placed between things.
34:11 🧪 A scientist explores how things in the universe are related and studies the regular associations between atoms, molecules, and natural phenomena.
37:11 🔬 The rational conclusion of the Intelligent Design argument is that there is design in nature, challenging materialism's stance.
39:13 🤯 The argument from contingency suggests that everything in the universe with dependent features requires an explanation, ultimately pointing to a necessary being (God).
43:03 🤔 Contingent things cannot fulfil the dependencies of other contingent things, leading to the necessity of a necessary being to explain their existence.
52:56 🔄 An infinite regress of contingent things in the past is not coherent, necessitating a necessary being (God) as the ground for their existence.
54:15 🌌 Contingency, as explained in the Quranic case for God, proves the existence of God by showing that everything in the universe depends on Him, rendering the conflict between science and this perspective non-existent.
56:21 🛠️ Intelligent Design (ID) is inconsistent with Islamic beliefs as it arises from a worldview that includes weak materialism, and it's rooted in Christian perspectives.
57:27 🧠 Science cannot disprove God, as they operate on different levels of discourse, making it a category mistake to think otherwise.
58:35 💡 Irreducible complexity is not necessary to demonstrate design, as design can be perceived in the universe without reaching that level of complexity.
01:03:09 🧬 Evolution, when understood in conjunction with the Quranic argument from contingency, does not disprove the existence of God, but scripturally, Muslims believe in the direct creation of Adam and Eve.
01:07:54 🤝 Muslims can reconcile the idea of Universal common ancestry with Adam's creation through miracles, and they can embrace a more open-minded perspective than strict materialists.
I don't think that anybody disputes that evolution, gradual change over time, descent with modification, occurs via random mutation and natural selection. But random unguided evolutionary processes can't account for the origin of life or the almost unimaginable specified and in some cases irreducible complexity of cells. So OOL is really the fundamental issue. Or even more fundamentally, what IS life? When a cell dies what exactly does it lose? Scientists don't know. They have no idea where to even begin. They can describe "life" but they can't explain what it is. Behe's more recent contribution ("Darwin Devolves") was showing that all mutations are maladaptive, they all result in a net loss of genetic information and only (rarely) confer survival advantage in a haphazard accidental way. Evolution is really devolution; we are running down, devolving. Entropy always increases. One example he uses is that of the mutation that produces sickle cell anemia. People born with this affliction die very prematurely but because their RBC's are misshapen the malaria parasite can't bind to them so they are immune to malaria. A trade off. Behe is a devout Irish-American Catholic (nine children) so it is a safe assumption that he accepts the Genesis account of creation. As a scientist and professor he walks a fine line. If he speaks about God as the pre-existing agent of creation he won't be published and he'll be subjected to another inquisition by the atheist/materialist powers that be
How did Islam spread into the far east Indonesia Malaysia China.
Call for Islam is simple Muslims has to have high moral ground in all their action be truthful at all times, honest, do good, help prevent bad, stand up against the Faro of our time.
Seek reward for his doing and abstention from bad in the day after.
I totally agree with this view. Natural laws and miracles are both commandments of God to nature; whereas the former is common, the latter is unusual and for a specific purpose (e.g. God revealing Himself to people and giving credibility to the prophets and revelations sent to them). God's relationship with nature is one of communication: God instructs every aspect of nature how to behave and how to interact with every other aspect of nature on all size scales and levels of complexity. This can be derived from the Qur'an in many verses, including when Allah created the heavens and the earths and instructs clumps of nebulous stuff to "come together willingly or unwillingly" and when Allah tells us that the patterns, rules, and orderliness of nature are signs of nature's submission to God.
Everything is by Allah Subhanawatallah's permission, therefore. Allah's mercy.
To answer your question, even before I listen to the whole video, if his argument does not confirm with what Allah in his Holy Quran, and what Prophet Muhammad said in his Ahadith, then we should NOT accept it whatever it seems to us that it "makes sense".
Why ? because believing what is said in Quran and Ahadith, in many many times falls under believing in Ghaib, the 'Unseen" .
This seems to me an unfair characterisation of ID. Some ID proponents may advocate "weak materialism" but others advocate for "no materialism". E.g. Stephen Meyer refers to Newton's view of "potentia ordinata", God's general actions, and "potentia absoluta", God's specific actions (i.e. miracles). (Return of the God Hypothesis, p428) This would be "no materialism", the same as the Muslim view.
ID arguments can fit into both worldviews. Behe himself acknowledges ID's neutrality to worldview questions, because if we say the designer was an alien, technically it can even fit into materialism. See the end of his Edge of Evolution.
Might be an idea to get an ID spokesperson like Casey Luskin, Stephen Meyer or Michael Behe to offer a response to Hamza Karamali's take?
When will your tovia singer discussion be released?
Assalamu’alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh
السَّلاَمُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَةُ اللهِ وَبَرَكَاتُهُ
Referrence point for muslims is/should be Al Quran and Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad, may Allah peace is upon him...justification from science or anything else is welcome, but not required.
Who said it was required? No one here has said that or implied that. Only you and others in the comments who lack understanding.
The names of Allah that come to mind listening to this talk are Al-Hayy, Al-Samad, Al-Qayyum. Thank you for sharing these insights.
Thank you both ❤
How can created think about the creator. Meaning to dissect the creator. Further more the creator is not human. He dont have flesh and blood. Our thinking cannot go beyond the creator
U know what im soo respect for you sir, even ur neme r paul u still can see a crystal clear of truth
This is a next level conceptualisation that at the end of the day argues or proves the existence of an independent designer...and sustainer of that design....which muslims call The Creator.
But that part of the discussion that says the materialistic scientist FEARS the argument for a independent creator because its a deadlock or roadblock for scientific need to explain things in literal forms ( rather than a balance between literal and figurative forms) ....shows a rather selfish and small mindedness on the part of the supposed welled schooled scientist.
It implies the less scientific or less literal dependent mind would have an easier path to embrace the concept of the All Emcompassing Independent Creator....waallaahu 'alam
Beautifully said jazakallahu khayr
Brilliant discusing
Regarding the creation of human then as a believer it can be said that all creatures and everything is created by God. It is however possble that human was part of the evolutionary process and being perfected. When they reached a certain stage God breathed rooh (soul) in the first couple who became human and distinct from other species due to this event. The evolutionary process took place on earth. The rooh was the miricale. How it all happened in detail we obviously dont know. The garden of Eden itself was on earth and not somewhere else. This is the explanation I have heard from at least one scholar which is also sound reliable in my opinion.
السلام عليكم
If the intelligent design theory doesn t claim that the designer is God that means no need to worship the designer and no matter if we do good or bad during our lives .. Allah says
﴿ أفحسبتم أنما خلقناكم عبثا وأنكم إلينا لا ترجعون فتعالى الله الملك الحق رب العرش الكريم ﴾
May Allah bless you brother Paul
اقراء باسم ربك الذى خلق
Read in the name of your Lord who cratered was revealed to a human صلىwho do not read or write there is no better inteligence design than reading the open creation around us .
Quran and sunna is about faith believe and accept your creator then comes guidance. الهادى هو الله.
الصحابة تعلموا الإيمان قبل ان يتعلموا القرآن.
assalamu alikum o brothers and sisters in ISLAM
❤Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "If one says one-hundred times in one day: "None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, the Alone Who has no partners, to Him belongs Dominion and to Him belong all the Praises, and He has power over all things (i.e. Omnipotent)", one will get the reward of manumitting ten slaves, and one-hundred good deeds will be written in his account, and one-hundred bad deeds will be wiped off or erased from his account, and on that day he will be protected from the morning till evening from Satan, and nobody will be superior to him except one who has done more than that which he has done."❤
they say Jesus never said he was God; just read two chapters of Mark and you will have 10 examples of Jesus saying exactly that ; not only Jesus but the demons "we know you son of the Most High"; what about Isiah do you believe in that prophet? what does he say in Chapter 52 nd 52?
If you read the old mutakallims (too bad modern muslims know little of that) and the actual explanation for the attribute of Creation, you'll find out that the world (the Universe and everything beyond and within, the existence itself) is being created by Allah Subhana wa Ta'alla at EVERY MOMENT with everything in it. So it's not the single act of creation but the continuous one (in our perception). Materialism is limited by the matter but the existence is going beyond that. One can explain the birth of the world with laws of physics. But the existence of laws of physics and the pre-existence of the material world (i.e. the possibility itself of existence of anything) is far beyond reach of materialism.
Any references one can look for regarding the works of the mutakallims please.
What does it mean : kahis in coran?
كهعيص في سورة مريم
Why is it that we have the soap? This is ourdayd very well confirmed by the science how the soap works and is uniquely precious, cheap, healthy etc. Still the science alone would probably never be able to understand by what miracle this came to possibility for humans from antique times to step onto the soap and it's blessings. I don't know if it enters the field of intelligent design, but my ,2 cents anyway. Thanks for the great content of the channel.
I love this site but this brother is splitting hair .compare this to ali atae or ehrlman episodes!!
We glorify god with the intelligent design community and we should find common grounds and acknowledge others contributions !
قل يا اهل الكتاب تعالوا الى كلمة سواء
Very good point 👍.. It is a great conversation between two very intelligent Muslims. However For most of this discussion,I wondered why the common ground between Islam and ID, was not being celebrated. Intelligent design does not detract from Islam in any way.
As a theory it is LESS than Islam, but not AGAINST Islam.
Why must there be such an effort to scrutinize Michael Behe's beliefs and.Intelligence design seeking to find a way to portray it/him as inferior to Islam...this overly tribal mentality of "we Muslims are better than them" that must be pushed into every discussion at every opportunity.. Even when unwarranted... It's arrogant and counter productive, to say the least.
@@commontouch1787 I understand and concede the good merits of your point...and.agree that this discussion did not inherently detract from Michael Behe.
At the same time, we must keep in mind , that many Muslims (just like any large population) do have an overly tribal mentality of often trying to be one-upping non Muslims at every turn....breeds an undertone of unnecessary division. I don't think it does the Islamic community any good.
Furthermore, Muslims being marginalized, is a huge generalization (does not apply in very many cases,amongst the various global societies) ,that is often a stereotypical cover for all supposed (and often unnecessary) "Muslim defense actions/attitudes.
Nonetheless, I do take your point
MaashaAllah.
❤
Michael BEHE-----wrote a book , -----about INTELLIGENT DESIGN ? What is the name of the book?
Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution by Michael Behe
মেঝে থেকে সাবান বাছুন
Trinity
Before Jesus's coming into this world, Moses always talked about one unique God, ya Huwa (oh, You only, the only One).
When Jesus came now, we are talking of 3 in one. Surely, before Jesus' arrival, there were 2 in 1 ( the father and the Holy spirit ). How come the 1 God became 3 in one suddenly. In the time of Moses He should have been 2 in 1 ( God and the Holy spirit). Why Moses never talked about this duality of God.
Suddenly, in Jesus's time, we are talking about the trinity. When did the Holy Spirit come on the scene ? So we jumped from the 1 God of Moses to the triune God of Christianity. Where was the Second person of Christianity prior to the arrival of Jesus? Surely Moses should have talked of God's duality before the Trinity that is expounded after Jesus's arrival by Christians.
The idea of TRINITY is not originated from BIBLE, it was borrowed from pagan religion. YEHOVAH or YAHVEH or YAH'VAH(Arabic) the name of GOD derived from 4 Hebrew letters transliterated in English as YHVH or JHVH called Tetragrammaton. The meaning of this word is 'HE CAUSES TO BECOME' that is GOD is the cause of creation and cause of accomplishment of all his purposes . Name of many prophets is associated to this name for example YAHYA means YEHOVAH IS MERCIFUL, ZACHARIAH means YEHOVAH HAS REMEMBERED, ILIAS means YEHOVAH IS GOD, JESUS means YEHOVAH IS SALVATION. ALLAH (Arabic), ELOAHIM(Hebrew), ELLAH(Araimic),THEOS(Greek) are words for GOD in respective languages. These are the titles or designation used for GOD not name
didn't expect to see a comment in yappanese language
The contingency or dependency argument is a "confirmation bias" reasoning. Useless for proving the truth.
For example if yaou claim B dependent on A or
B = f(A)
Then you if know B exist then you only can know that A does exist to claim B dependent on A . In other word you must first prove that A existed or otherwise is only assumption. There is always a gap of knowledge of not knowing A first: the very reality that you wanted to prove exist.
Simple example: To know that existence of water dependents on the existence of hydrogen and oxygen one must know that hydrogen and oxygen do exist.
That's why the contingency argument has nothing to do with "dependency." But sure, you can use dependency as well if you feel like it.
Look! When you know that everything in this Universe had a beginning, then it is natural to assume that some thing before the big bang must have caused it. One is left to imagination to who or what the Primary cause of all 'contingent things' is (no matter what the reasons given as in a chain or web of multiverses etc).
That cause is what is God. How did one get to such a conclusion amongst the plethora of all possible reasons out there or those that can be concocted by any layman's mind?
Answer is through history and testimony. You simply CANNOT employ empiricism to arrive at such a conclusion and that too with adamant assertion without proper evidence.
And we find that evidence in and throughout History.
@@snakejuce
One choice of religion/aldeen is not dependence. "There is no compulsive in religion...." - alBaqarah Q(2:256)
Wa Allahu 'alam..
It breaks the concept of dependency.
"Should Muslims Accept Prof Michael Behe’s Intelligent Design Argument?"
No. Behe has been not only laughed out of academia, but court as well.
There is absolutely nothing to argue about the religion because the message of Allah came from time to time in form of books. And the last Book, the Quran is in the hands of mankind. And this guy who has argument, he is not aware of the last Book or does not have the necessary intelligence to understand the point that where the last Book came from and who wrote the last Book. Brothers there is no need to beat around the bush.
Time ripe for a Muslim Tielhard de Chardin?
No, it has been shown to be pseudo-science so many times.
Name one time.
@snakejuce look at the arguments in the US Supreme court case of Edwards v Aguillard.
There is no such thing as pseudo science
@@richardbradley1532 Those matters are not for courts of law. The allusion to courts of law reflects something rather than logical or scientific discourse is involved. Those court cases are about teaching ID in public schools in America, and they have zero value otherwise.
If they Sheik would explain life through the lens of quantum mechanic it would be irrefutable.
Brother Paul are you Muslim?
❤️❤️❤️❤️🌹🌹🌹
This is too deep. For me Amantubillahi wa rasulee is enough.
Nothing is too deep if you're curious enough. Starts from the basics, note down the terminologies, go back to them frequently. If you are young, it's even more possible than if you're old.
And each person is on their own step of their journey. For some, they may find this fruitful. For others, another route. There is no one-size fits all glove.
❤❤❤
Hi Paul, you should try to wear a Taqiyah.
Who is Michael BEHE ?
I can’t believe you don’t know him.
he’s a magnificent human, scientists and an author, he’s known for the concept of irreducible complexity, which is very interesting, look it up.
essentially he’s one of the most prominent scientists who argue for design in the body using science.
Sorry Bro,not very convincing !
😅😢
Hello
Why there’s advertisements in the middle of a video that relates to Islam? Even if the advertisement is Islamic advertisement, it’s still annoying stop it.
Are we looking for validation from science now?
Who said we are?
Isn't this what Allah (swt) refers to on more than one occasion. To reflect on creation...
Some of the videos on this channel are meant to help Christians and some videos to help Atheists who are curious to learn about Islam. Also some videos are to help Muslims on how to talk to Atheists. I remember writing a comment asking for videos on how to talk to atheists & i think many other people have made a similar request. So i think this is why Bro Paul had created these "genre" of youtube videos. Maybe im wrong? There are also similar videos by other lecturers on this channel.
intelligent design is a scientific evidence of the existence of god , there is no other chance for darwinism to be discussed anymore, it's done 👍
Er no !!
Why in the world would any Muslim consider this argument from a person who philosophic musings about the creation when we already have the Furqan that tells everything we need to know about Allah ta’ala’s capacity to create. I’m sure he’s quite competent in what he does but…no thank you. Unnecessary.
How else do you think we convince atheists ?
@@iramkazim5038 Why, in the world do we have to convince them? They can read the Quran for themselves. If they reject it, well… they reject it. I reference sura al-Baqara ayat 256.
Paul, don't you think it's sad that for Islam to prove its rightness, it needs to seek validation from science?
as if the word of science is one level above the word of God; shouldn't it be the other way around?
that Science is the one who needs to prove any claim it has according to the word of God? have you ever think this way?
science is just a tool, we can use this tool, it’s not comparable to the Quran, but we live in an age if science, daees are more effective using science which is inline with the Quran, the quran is the determining factor of what is true or not.
Then why God himself, ask his intelligence blessed creatures to look at His creation for signs?
˹He is the One˺ Who created seven heavens, one above the other. You will never see any imperfection in the creation of the Most Compassionate.1 So look again: do you see any flaws? 67-3
Then look again and again-your sight will return frustrated and weary. 67-4
"Paul, don't you think it's sad that for Islam to prove its rightness, it needs to seek validation from science?"
Which part of this video said Islam needs validation from science?
Clearly you missed the message of this video. Which I can understand; not everyone has the same background and knowledge levels. But if you are unsure about something, it is better to ask for clarification than to second guess others ability to think.
This channel is also watched by atheists - so it helps to have some videos to reach out to them
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