The actual screen-used helmet WAS two-tone and DID have red lenses, but as you pointed out, both of those choices were for technical concerns, not as an esthetic choice. In fact, it took me years to realize it was actually two-tone because the optical illusion worked so well. I Had however noticed the eyes being a slightly reddish tint. You may remember how each OT film had a different helmet and different suit... Empire and Jedi had much darker helmets and the shape of the cowl and other features were different from film to film. Some of these had to do with practical reasons of being able to walk and fight in the helmet, and others were purely based on looks. Much like the Indiana Jones hat and jacket change from film to film, so does the Vader costume which means they are all right but also all wrong... and then there's the difference between what is screen-accurate and what is perceived or intended. Han Solo's parka in Empire Strikes back is brown, not blue, but because of the color correction done to the film in post, it looks blue, so much so that navy blue is the color used in the original action figures and all the comic books at the time. Was it intended at blue but made brown because they had intended to do some blue screen shots with Han and didn't want to have a problem compositing his parka, or was it always intended as brown but during timing in post, the color corrector tried boosting the blues and Kirshner and Lucas preferred it that way? Who knows? I'm guessing there's only a handful of people left who can answer that question, but my guess is they probably thought maybe some blue screen would be used and hey just decided to stay clear of that problem. As for the Vader Helmet, I think what happened is in Rogue One, because the story takes place just before Star Wars, they wanted the Vader there to look as close as possible to the original and that's where the red lenses reappeared and because we are now decades into a world of geekdom that Star Wars created, people are much more used to scrutinizing everything, but back in '77, most people just assumed the eyes were black and that's how they remembered them for the most part. Now it's a thing again because they brought a lot of attention to them again, but it really wasn't the intention originally. In 76 they were just trying to find a dark lens that the actor could see through and red was a compromise, but it was never an esthetic choice.
That makes sense regarding the red lenses. they probably give more contrast but still appear mostly black if they're not back-lit on set. And I didn't realize that Han's Parka wasn't blue in real life, but that also makes sense with blue-green, which was pretty much the standard back then, and very hard to control bleed when they did the composting. They filmed a lot of those hoth scenes in Norway, where I'm from (though I'm not from the place they filmed) and I guess I never noticed on any behind the scenes that the jacket wasn't blue. There was a recent replica made of the jacket that sold out like hotcakes, and they made that blue, since that's how it looks in the film. But yeah, there really is no right or wrong, as long as it looks right for whomever has whatever it is :)
@@mariuscinematicuniverse Green screen started a bit later with video compositing because of a technicality, but for the original trilogy, the screen was blue, and the reason for that is because at the time, compositing was an optical process; so you filmed your subject in front of a blue screen, which in those days was backlit! -and then you get that piece of film processed and what you get back from the lab is a negative, from that negative you get an interpositive made where the colors are just as they were on set, so blue screen and whatever the subject was, from this interpositive, an interngative is made but it is made with a red filter in between the interpositive and the internagative, and the new piece of film used is not a color film but a black and white film, because in black and white color filters affect certain colors differently and red turns blue into black, and that is the key; a new piece of film is made from this black and white film and it is printed using very high-contrast film, so blue goes black and the negative of this will be the opposite so the black will be clear, or white once the optical printer shines a light through it.. and that is the basis for blue screen optical compositing; you have your original film with the blue screen, your mate and counter-mate and your background plate, and that is the reason the screen was blue, so it could be turned black by using a simple red filter during optical printing and thereby extract a mate and from that first black and white mate, it's opposite counter-mate. The Han Solo parka was one of the many costumes showed in the Star Wars traveling exhibit a few years back and it was most definitely brown. and while we're on the topic of color, his Jacket in Empire is not blue either; it is grey with a bit of blue in it, but it is not blue. Don't believe everything you see on the screen, after all it's just make-believe hehehe.
@Hiro Protagonist for sure :) it's all movie magic. I love this stuff, but never went that into the rabbit hole, but want to do that with this channel. I watch all the Behind the scenes material I can find, and on all the DVD and blu-ray I've collected over the decades. When I staeted in the film industry, we still shot on film. So pretty familiar with most of the processes. So many things have changed I such a short period of time
There are a lot of differences between anh esb and rotj movie props , like the esb version had a larger chin vent so the actor could see better, the eyes were brown also the contures are different. But the difference between the black series and any of those versions are way off, like the eyes being to big
Just to point out. Red lenses in the helmet really make it hard to see what colour Lightsaber you have. Even a Red Lightsaber. 501st only pick a helmet based on Screen accuracy.
you're right, could very well be the speaker. But looks like they did some design work on it to not look like a regular speaker? But maybe Vader uses a speaker in-universe. Its definitely more defined and a different design than the previous one :)
I agree with your comment at the end about a hybrid between the two. A longer neck piece with the red lenses, but all black. That would be my ultimate as well.
yes the filming mask had two tones, but it was painted that way to allow for the shapes and contours of the mask to be visible because of the lighting scheme and the limitations they had at the time for color correction etc. It was supposed to be all black in vaders world
The one the left is more a new hope accurate because of the lenses and chin vent being smaller. The right is definitely Empire due to darker lenses and wider chin vent.
What an interesting video, thank you! It’s an interesting conundrum, and I think it’s helpful for us to look at these relating to our intended use/display of the pieces we collect. For example, if it’s for an up-close display in a well-lit room, then the idealized version would seem to give the best impact, but so much detail is lost in the all black version otherwise. The two-toned helmet definitely has better visual impact under darker lighting, or for a costume, where people would be viewing the helmet from all different angles and distances. I’d say the answer depends on the intended audience ! 😅
I'm sure someone has pointed these things out, but the Vader mask (as well as the suit) changed in every movie. The original Vader mask wasn't even symmetrical. It did have red eyes and was all one color. Throughout the movies the dark silver/gray accents were added to create a better exposure on film.
oh yes, it, and all the other props and costumes have changed across the films, and scene to scene. There was a time when this wasn't t considered as important as it these days :)
For me the only argument for the new version is the longer neck. Eye color can always be easily changed by adding a transparent black foil. What about ventilation ? If the older version has bigger ventilation it should be more comfortable to wear it longer than the new one. Do you feel any difference in air access? is it easier to breathe in older version ? In which version is there more space in the mouth area? if I ever wanted to put a voice changer inside.
TL;DR This is a comparison between a ROTJ and OBI Wan Disney+ helmet. I always liked the ROTJ and ROTS looks best. But the helmet in the show is my new favourite. This particular product is held back by not being cast perfect and probably subjective preferences on the BMW logo-esque gunmetal shade split. Interestingly you can clearly notice this shade split on the suit up scene of you're aware of it.
I have a Vader helmet that is similar to these from over 15 years ago. It was at FYE and I think it had a torn box so I got it for 25 bucks out the door. I have it sitting next to the Vader helmet from Don Post. My helmet makes the Don Post helmet look tiny. I am going to go home now and look inside to see when it was made and who made it because it claimed on the box to be original to the first movie. It is pretty old but in great shape since it sits in my office on a shelf for all these years. Great video.
I have the new one and I love it. For information, according to the manual, the stand for the new helmet has to be placed under the dome, not under the neckpiece. Then the helmet displays right. Nevertheless, nice review! 👍🏻
Both versions of the mask itself are not screen accurate in terms of the proportions and the dome is not tall enough. It might be off by about an inch I don't know but the eyes and the grill vents are a bit too big. I think the Obi Wan version is a slight improvement but its still not quite right. I think the 2018 version was meant to replicate the ROTS version, hence the symmetrical shaping but it doesn’t look right, it's as though the face looks too out of scale compared to the dome, its weird. For cosplayers who want to be approved by the 501st legion, finding a good helmet without breaking the bank is so frustrating because they are very strict with their guidelines depending on which version of the costume you are trying to replicate accurately to the last detail and doing that can cost you up to 5 to 10 grand. A lot of that being on the impossible task of finding a good helmet that's not ludicrously expensive such as the EFX one which can set you back a lot of money now. I think if Hasbro end up doing a third helmet with the more correct proportions in the face mask and the dome is the correct height, then it will end up being the GOAT for those who want to be approved by the 501st legion.
I'd say the new one is nicer to see the longer neck as well as the color . I was able to get the black one at a game stop . I got two for cheap because of the boxes. My brother changed the color and extended the neck . It's awesome.
@@mariuscinematicuniverse I Know, but in order to fit in the detolf, the helmet has to be in a concrete position. The new one is looking upwards so i'm afraid the tusks will not allow the door to close.
I prefer the more idealised version as opposed to the screen accurate. For example, screen accurate Stormtrooper helmets from ANH can look quite crude and those very imperfections begin to annoy me over time (OCD?). I have a Roman Props Graflex that is amazingly accurate, but I would prefer a base without all the engraving from the original manufacturer (see the Wampa cave scene in TESB).
There's something about the all black that really looks fake to me. Like, I own the two toned helmet and I love it. It looks metal to me. I legit didn't realize it was two toned until someone told me. It genuinely just looks like its all black, and the light is hitting it a certain way. something about the solid black helmet always felt wrong, like its clearly plastic. I guess that's partly why they added the silver in the first place
Luckily for me I love both the idealized and the prop version. Not just with black series but with the actual 1 to 1 helmets as well. Unfortunately it means that I must have both versions. Haha my wallet hurts.
@@mariuscinematicuniverse Sorry, let me clarify. In this instance it would be "prop accurate". I want all those imperfections, all the wonky and crooked stuff held together by tape and prayers :)
If you’re going to do a comparisons video on the Vader helmets - then you firstly need to know what you’re talking about. Straight away - you are comparing two toys. Black Series is a toy. It’s not screen accurate. Even the precision craft EFX isn’t ANH screen accurate. The Limited and Special Editions are better. There are many differences between the ANH and ESB / ROTJ Vader helmets. The brow is more aggressive on the ANH. The helmet is more flared on the ESB / ROTJ, the right tusk on the ANH is black / weathered. There are differences in the triangular vent on the neck piece, the lenses are red on the ANH while they are clear / tinged yellow on the ESB / ROTJ. The ANH screen used prop has the infamous ‘C’ scar on his right cheek and some chipping. If you want a true lineage Vader prop helmet you have to go to experts like Skunkworks. This guy doesn’t know what he is talking about and is basically acting like he is awe of a cheap plastic toy worth approx £100. It’s a toy - not a prop replica. The dramatic photos of said toy at the end are hilarious. 😅
The actual screen-used helmet WAS two-tone and DID have red lenses, but as you pointed out, both of those choices were for technical concerns, not as an esthetic choice. In fact, it took me years to realize it was actually two-tone because the optical illusion worked so well. I Had however noticed the eyes being a slightly reddish tint. You may remember how each OT film had a different helmet and different suit... Empire and Jedi had much darker helmets and the shape of the cowl and other features were different from film to film. Some of these had to do with practical reasons of being able to walk and fight in the helmet, and others were purely based on looks. Much like the Indiana Jones hat and jacket change from film to film, so does the Vader costume which means they are all right but also all wrong... and then there's the difference between what is screen-accurate and what is perceived or intended. Han Solo's parka in Empire Strikes back is brown, not blue, but because of the color correction done to the film in post, it looks blue, so much so that navy blue is the color used in the original action figures and all the comic books at the time. Was it intended at blue but made brown because they had intended to do some blue screen shots with Han and didn't want to have a problem compositing his parka, or was it always intended as brown but during timing in post, the color corrector tried boosting the blues and Kirshner and Lucas preferred it that way? Who knows? I'm guessing there's only a handful of people left who can answer that question, but my guess is they probably thought maybe some blue screen would be used and hey just decided to stay clear of that problem. As for the Vader Helmet, I think what happened is in Rogue One, because the story takes place just before Star Wars, they wanted the Vader there to look as close as possible to the original and that's where the red lenses reappeared and because we are now decades into a world of geekdom that Star Wars created, people are much more used to scrutinizing everything, but back in '77, most people just assumed the eyes were black and that's how they remembered them for the most part. Now it's a thing again because they brought a lot of attention to them again, but it really wasn't the intention originally. In 76 they were just trying to find a dark lens that the actor could see through and red was a compromise, but it was never an esthetic choice.
That makes sense regarding the red lenses. they probably give more contrast but still appear mostly black if they're not back-lit on set.
And I didn't realize that Han's Parka wasn't blue in real life, but that also makes sense with blue-green, which was pretty much the standard back then, and very hard to control bleed when they did the composting.
They filmed a lot of those hoth scenes in Norway, where I'm from (though I'm not from the place they filmed) and I guess I never noticed on any behind the scenes that the jacket wasn't blue.
There was a recent replica made of the jacket that sold out like hotcakes, and they made that blue, since that's how it looks in the film.
But yeah, there really is no right or wrong, as long as it looks right for whomever has whatever it is :)
@@mariuscinematicuniverse Green screen started a bit later with video compositing because of a technicality, but for the original trilogy, the screen was blue, and the reason for that is because at the time, compositing was an optical process; so you filmed your subject in front of a blue screen, which in those days was backlit! -and then you get that piece of film processed and what you get back from the lab is a negative, from that negative you get an interpositive made where the colors are just as they were on set, so blue screen and whatever the subject was, from this interpositive, an interngative is made but it is made with a red filter in between the interpositive and the internagative, and the new piece of film used is not a color film but a black and white film, because in black and white color filters affect certain colors differently and red turns blue into black, and that is the key; a new piece of film is made from this black and white film and it is printed using very high-contrast film, so blue goes black and the negative of this will be the opposite so the black will be clear, or white once the optical printer shines a light through it.. and that is the basis for blue screen optical compositing; you have your original film with the blue screen, your mate and counter-mate and your background plate, and that is the reason the screen was blue, so it could be turned black by using a simple red filter during optical printing and thereby extract a mate and from that first black and white mate, it's opposite counter-mate.
The Han Solo parka was one of the many costumes showed in the Star Wars traveling exhibit a few years back and it was most definitely brown. and while we're on the topic of color, his Jacket in Empire is not blue either; it is grey with a bit of blue in it, but it is not blue. Don't believe everything you see on the screen, after all it's just make-believe hehehe.
@Hiro Protagonist for sure :) it's all movie magic. I love this stuff, but never went that into the rabbit hole, but want to do that with this channel.
I watch all the Behind the scenes material I can find, and on all the DVD and blu-ray I've collected over the decades.
When I staeted in the film industry, we still shot on film. So pretty familiar with most of the processes. So many things have changed I such a short period of time
@@mariuscinematicuniverse When I started in films, you could still get Super 8 film...
I’m pretty sure in ep 5 and 6 he didn’t have red lenses
There are a lot of differences between anh esb and rotj movie props , like the esb version had a larger chin vent so the actor could see better, the eyes were brown also the contures are different. But the difference between the black series and any of those versions are way off, like the eyes being to big
Just to point out. Red lenses in the helmet really make it hard to see what colour Lightsaber you have. Even a Red Lightsaber. 501st only pick a helmet based on Screen accuracy.
The fan you speak of is the speaker 🤣🤣🤣
you're right, could very well be the speaker. But looks like they did some design work on it to not look like a regular speaker? But maybe Vader uses a speaker in-universe. Its definitely more defined and a different design than the previous one :)
What was the 2018 black series Darth Vader helmet based off of which version of Vader?
I think it was an idealized version and not really specific to one movie, but I could be wrong on that.
I have two of the 2018 black series one on display and on in the box never opened.
I agree with your comment at the end about a hybrid between the two. A longer neck piece with the red lenses, but all black. That would be my ultimate as well.
In my opinion I really like the new one, the red eyes make it look cool and to get to see the neck part also gives a different look to it.
the angle it's sitting at right now does give it a different appearance. And the two tone paint.
The NEW ONE IS TEN TIMES BETTER HANDS DOWN
One thing I don't like about the obi wan kenobi helmet is the red eyes. It might be accurate but in film it's red inside and looks black outside
Same, I do like the look of the black lenses, in person.
Does the new bottom neck section fit on the older helmet?
yes it does, just tried it now to double check.
I think a new hope had the 2 tone for filming, the last 2 had shiny black and minor alterations.
yes the filming mask had two tones, but it was painted that way to allow for the shapes and contours of the mask to be visible because of the lighting scheme and the limitations they had at the time for color correction etc. It was supposed to be all black in vaders world
The one the left is more a new hope accurate because of the lenses and chin vent being smaller. The right is definitely Empire due to darker lenses and wider chin vent.
You have the stand backwards on the new one. Flip it the right way and it won’t rub
In the movie we clearly see the grey in all of them
What an interesting video, thank you!
It’s an interesting conundrum, and I think it’s helpful for us to look at these relating to our intended use/display of the pieces we collect.
For example, if it’s for an up-close display in a well-lit room, then the idealized version would seem to give the best impact, but so much detail is lost in the all black version otherwise.
The two-toned helmet definitely has better visual impact under darker lighting, or for a costume, where people would be viewing the helmet from all different angles and distances.
I’d say the answer depends on the intended audience ! 😅
in the end, the "right" one is the one that's right for you :)
I'm sure someone has pointed these things out, but the Vader mask (as well as the suit) changed in every movie. The original Vader mask wasn't even symmetrical. It did have red eyes and was all one color. Throughout the movies the dark silver/gray accents were added to create a better exposure on film.
oh yes, it, and all the other props and costumes have changed across the films, and scene to scene.
There was a time when this wasn't t considered as important as it these days :)
@@mariuscinematicuniverse very true.
The ANH helmet has the two tone and the lenses were clear grey.
I owe the original and it looks great on display
I don't like the two tone colour scheme. I prefer the all black one.
sometimes when I look over at it, it looks good, and other times it looks off
For me the only argument for the new version is the longer neck. Eye color can always be easily changed by adding a transparent black foil.
What about ventilation ? If the older version has bigger ventilation it should be more comfortable to wear it longer than the new one.
Do you feel any difference in air access? is it easier to breathe in older version ?
In which version is there more space in the mouth area? if I ever wanted to put a voice changer inside.
The "vent" at the front is the speaker, so there's no ventilation through it, and the design is the same on the inside of the helmet
TL;DR This is a comparison between a ROTJ and OBI Wan Disney+ helmet.
I always liked the ROTJ and ROTS looks best. But the helmet in the show is my new favourite. This particular product is held back by not being cast perfect and probably subjective preferences on the BMW logo-esque gunmetal shade split.
Interestingly you can clearly notice this shade split on the suit up scene of you're aware of it.
I have a Vader helmet that is similar to these from over 15 years ago. It was at FYE and I think it had a torn box so I got it for 25 bucks out the door. I have it sitting next to the Vader helmet from Don Post. My helmet makes the Don Post helmet look tiny. I am going to go home now and look inside to see when it was made and who made it because it claimed on the box to be original to the first movie. It is pretty old but in great shape since it sits in my office on a shelf for all these years. Great video.
nice, that's very cool. Let me know it you find out when it's from
Interesting opinion! Never looked at it that way, anyways nice video. Good high quality, you got a new subscriber!
Thanks
I have the new one and I love it. For information, according to the manual, the stand for the new helmet has to be placed under the dome, not under the neckpiece. Then the helmet displays right. Nevertheless, nice review! 👍🏻
Good note. I did not read the manual... And that doesn't pop them magnets off?
@@mariuscinematicuniverse No, I also thought so at first. But the magnets are strong enough to hold everything together. 👍🏻
good to know
Both versions of the mask itself are not screen accurate in terms of the proportions and the dome is not tall enough. It might be off by about an inch I don't know but the eyes and the grill vents are a bit too big. I think the Obi Wan version is a slight improvement but its still not quite right. I think the 2018 version was meant to replicate the ROTS version, hence the symmetrical shaping but it doesn’t look right, it's as though the face looks too out of scale compared to the dome, its weird. For cosplayers who want to be approved by the 501st legion, finding a good helmet without breaking the bank is so frustrating because they are very strict with their guidelines depending on which version of the costume you are trying to replicate accurately to the last detail and doing that can cost you up to 5 to 10 grand. A lot of that being on the impossible task of finding a good helmet that's not ludicrously expensive such as the EFX one which can set you back a lot of money now. I think if Hasbro end up doing a third helmet with the more correct proportions in the face mask and the dome is the correct height, then it will end up being the GOAT for those who want to be approved by the 501st legion.
That’s not a fan in the vent, it’s a speaker
in-universe it's supposed to be a fan and air intake
I'd say the new one is nicer to see the longer neck as well as the color . I was able to get the black one at a game stop . I got two for cheap because of the boxes. My brother changed the color and extended the neck . It's awesome.
nice score. Yeah except for the next and the lenses they're the same when painted.
Did you recently pick them up?
@@mariuscinematicuniverse Not yet for the new one . I like the new neck it is better . Soon I will get one lol .
The original is better IMO and looks fantastic in a detolf. Not sure if the new one would fit.
They're exactly the same size, except for the neck
@@mariuscinematicuniverse I Know, but in order to fit in the detolf, the helmet has to be in a concrete position. The new one is looking upwards so i'm afraid the tusks will not allow the door to close.
@@therealfrananon makes sense
I prefer the more idealised version as opposed to the screen accurate. For example, screen accurate Stormtrooper helmets from ANH can look quite crude and those very imperfections begin to annoy me over time (OCD?). I have a Roman Props Graflex that is amazingly accurate, but I would prefer a base without all the engraving from the original manufacturer (see the Wampa cave scene in TESB).
I'm still on the fence, but I think I lean more toward the idealized too for my display and everyday enjoyment
So which version of the helmet do you like? Are you drawn to the more "screen accurate" props or the "idealized" props for your collection?
I definitely like the newer one I got it for Christmas and It is perfect so that one is way better
Nice.
They were red in the original trilogy.
There's something about the all black that really looks fake to me. Like, I own the two toned helmet and I love it. It looks metal to me. I legit didn't realize it was two toned until someone told me. It genuinely just looks like its all black, and the light is hitting it a certain way. something about the solid black helmet always felt wrong, like its clearly plastic. I guess that's partly why they added the silver in the first place
I see what you mean.
I belive lenses were brown in the original.
Clear grey*
The first one is more probably a toy than the second.
Tell me that’s not Tony Hawk in the thumbnail
Maybe I should change the name of the channel to Tony Hawk's Cinematic Universe @tonyhawk
Luckily for me I love both the idealized and the prop version. Not just with black series but with the actual 1 to 1 helmets as well. Unfortunately it means that I must have both versions. Haha my wallet hurts.
what's the other version you have? or have you not picked it up yet?
I only care for screen accurate. I have little to no interest in "idealized".
what about screen accurate vs prop accurate? This imperfections that doesn't make it onto the sceeen?
@@mariuscinematicuniverse Sorry, let me clarify. In this instance it would be "prop accurate". I want all those imperfections, all the wonky and crooked stuff held together by tape and prayers :)
@@Detaleader I ❤ “tape and prayers!”
If you’re going to do a comparisons video on the Vader helmets - then you firstly need to know what you’re talking about. Straight away - you are comparing two toys. Black Series is a toy. It’s not screen accurate. Even the precision craft EFX isn’t ANH screen accurate. The Limited and Special Editions are better. There are many differences between the ANH and ESB / ROTJ Vader helmets. The brow is more aggressive on the ANH. The helmet is more flared on the ESB / ROTJ, the right tusk on the ANH is black / weathered. There are differences in the triangular vent on the neck piece, the lenses are red on the ANH while they are clear / tinged yellow on the ESB / ROTJ. The ANH screen used prop has the infamous ‘C’ scar on his right cheek and some chipping. If you want a true lineage Vader prop helmet you have to go to experts like Skunkworks. This guy doesn’t know what he is talking about and is basically acting like he is awe of a cheap plastic toy worth approx £100. It’s a toy - not a prop replica. The dramatic photos of said toy at the end are hilarious. 😅
Clear grey lenses on the ANH helmet
The Black Series Vader helmets are absolutely awful!!...which makes no sense since the helmets on the 6" figures actually ARE accurate!
Yea Obi wan Series Vader is Crap!!! 😂
I think that they are different but not. They are the same helmet except by the color paint the long neck and red lenses. I have the new version.
Yes, they're essentially the same helmet. Same mold, but with those minor modifications and color scheme.