You do not have to die or go insane and be quickly doomed in CoC unless you play in the style you play D&D. You need to change tactics and approaches. Of course it is a horror game and not a high power hero fantasy game so you are fighting a battle you cannot win forever. You can survive a lot of adventures if you do not try to shot your way through everything but you will not likely last years of weekly sessions without losing a character.
I like the idea of tracking "insanity" levels! I remember when I used to play Vampire: The Masquerade, we had a "Humanity" score from zero to ten. Committing heinous atrocities risked lowering your score. And when you hit zero, you basically lost control of your character and became a bloodthirsty, ravenous monster.
This is a two year old video, but I still feel like your wife was under prepared to actually defend this game. She explains how PCs die a lot or go fully insane. And thats very true .... in one shots. In campaign play, both pre-written adventures and Keeper made stories, are made to carry PCs along and to not straight kill them. "Mask of Nyarlathotep" is a very good pre-written campaign for COC that can last for years. The HUGE rumor of PCs always die, and the thought that this game is a GM vs. player mentality is a huge lie made by the 3 things. Misunderstanding of how the game works, bad keepers (not sorry for throwing them under the bus), and if the game is suppose to be a one shot thats short and deadly, or a campaign thats design to be one big investigation or a series of investigations. PCs personal stories are also very interictal to good COC games. Mechanics for making your back story and how insanity changes your personality and how you progress the game is very important to how a keeper would want to progress the story. Especially if the player uses his personal connection to regain sanity and lose the roll. You guys barely touch on the systems, but systems should always fit the games main theme and presentation. D&D D20 system works great for "heroic" games where even a LVL1 PC could easily get a 20 and make a great stroke of skill and 1 to make great fails for stories. But D100 is design to fit clearly to realism. If your not good at something, dont expect to magically do it more than once or twice a campagn. In D100 systems, PCs are very inclined to work together and keep each others backs like a horror game. If you flip the systems, D&D use D100 and COC use D20, the games would feel drastically different and be completely different games. Not just by systems, but in tone and theme. And you touch on it a little, but you try to use the argument "D&D system is so versatile, that you can play any game with it" (Not your words, but what I think you try to say) But, and I know D&D super fans will hate me, "a system thats a jack of all trades, is a master of none." Its a pretty flat system. Its decent on feeling like a heroic system, but I dont feel that different playing a D20 sytem compared to like a "storyteller" system or D100s system, with its pull for teamwork and full understanding of your roll/occupation (just personal opinion) The D&D system would have to go through a blender to even get close to the feel and tone of COC. And other comments already beat me to it, but this was not a system discussion, this was more like a preference discussion on theme and personal play styles. Your wife clearly likes horror, gritty realism more than heroic high fantasy.
I like the soft/lower magic system of Call of Cthulhu better. But I do love D&D and play it frequently too. D&D does combat better. What I don't like about CoC is that the base setting (the 1920s) does not really appeal to me. What I don't like about D&D is that you are basically super heros and that death is too rare and not typically permanent.
Just picked up Call of Cthulhu starter set and I’m going to run paper chase tonight. Never played CoC before but I have a feeling after reading through it’s going to super fun and different from our usual dnd 5e
I started with Worlds of Wonder (Basic Role-Playing). Slid right into Call of Cthulhu as it's the same system. Every time I tried D&D (all editions other than 4th), I've absolutely hated it. Hated the rules. Hated classes. I'm not generally a Fantasy fan & particularly not Tolkien-esque Fantasy. I've found Basic Role-Playing to be infinitely malleable in terms of setting and game style, while D&D is only really good at "fighting monsters." Yes, you can tell other types of stories, but that's what it's made for, so anything else means you're working against the mechanics. Basic Role-Playing (& Call of Cthulhu) isn't the only game I love, but if it comes down to the two, there's no contest. I'll take BRP any day.
I love both systems, and many more besides these. I disagree with her on how she sees CoC, though. Yes, it can be, and most often is played as she describes, but I have both played in and run campaign versions of CoC (6e). The investigators can get better if they gain different mental illnesses. 1910-1930's psychiatry wasn't anywhere near as good as today's, but they did help patients. So as both a player and a GM, I saw character development in CoC. Let me tell you, that was much more fun than the oh well, my PC died, here's another style.
John Diffley, Bre here, that is a great prespective! Most unfortunately my Cthulhu experience campaign wise is limited to 3 sessions, but I would love to have a longer campaign to see that type of development and can absolutely see how that would be fulfilling. Thanks for the insight!
Enjoyed the video, but the name might be a touch misleading... This discussion seemed to be more about preference for setting and theme than system. The bit about d100 vs d20 perked my ears up, but then it just kinda wandered off to character styles. I love the idea of system vs system, however this was style preference vs style preference.
Not sure I understand why you're not into rolling d100, but ok with a d20. You're still trying to hit a certain number. In D&D, a +1 weapon is exactly the same as +5%. If it's the concept of trying to roll *below* a target number, how about reversing it? Instead of rolling 80 or under for an action that has an 80% chance of success, just say instead that you have a 20% chance of failure, and go for a 21 or higher...?
Scott here. I prefer the D20 system as to me it feels more "gamey" it can be added to subtracted to and kept within a compact easy to understand yet infinity adaptable and complex as you want it to be. My experience with d100 systems on a whole is that is is oversimplified and IMO does not carry that same "gamey" feel. Don't get me wrong some of my favorite games are d100s Call of Cthulhu, Outbreak Undead, Of dreams and Magic to name a few. I am just one of those players and GMs who enjoys the optimization of systems and crunchy bits. As long as the crunch is easy to understand, sometimes people get crazy with it lol.
D&D focuses on the hero characters and their escalating power levels vs. Call of Cthulhu is about horror. Characters die in horror movies, games, RPGs...it's part of the trope. You can't complain that characters don't stick around from scenario to scenario when that's integral to the theme.
I have yet to play a Call of Cthulhu game and not Died. Not saying I didn't enjoy was a blast. But in Call of Cthulhu don't get attached to your character XD
Bre is correct on this one, but it's really a discussion of what system is a better Horror RPG. Percentile is an intuitive concept as opposed to whatever DnD is. Agreed campaign play is favored in a fantasy environment so DnD wins there as you can always be resurrected to keep things going. All great horror stories have a sanity element and DnD doesn't have that because it's not a horror RPG it's an adventure game.
No system is right for all styles of play. 5th edition (and pretty much every edition of D&D) is essentially incompatible with Call of Cthulhu style horror. I've played nearly every edition of D&D, going back when I started in the 70s, but the "heroic" scale, the lack of integrated sanity mechanics, and the Vancian magic systems makes it a terrible choice for horror gaming. Sure you can house rule the bejeebus out of it, but at what point are you still playing the same game?
D&D is a fun romp that allows a lot of freedom on the other hand Call of Cthulhu is the greatest game ever made that is easy to play and lets people tell some horrifying stories.
I hate D&D with a passion, I don't dislike fantasy though, I just find D&D too cheesy, camp and silly, I much prefer Warhammer and similar dark fantasy games that have a slight amount of realism to them.
I hate it as well. It don't see how any mature person can immerse in this trashy, unrealistic setting and the unnecessary complicated rules. This game is for immature people. But the main reason i hate it is, that everybody outside PnP only knows DnD and thinks that DnD und PnP are the same thing essentially. And since it's a fantasy-trash game, people with normal tastes are scared away from roleplaying games, which is unfortunate
This is a video we would actually like to redo at some point because you are correct, we did not focus enough on the systems themselves. That and I've played 7th edition since then and I enjoy it much more
its the same system. bad video. you can use the same story and run it in the dnd story. not sure what she is trying to accomplish. She rolled way too low on persuasion to convince me CoC system is better than DnD. you can do many home brews with the dnd system. have your 1920 fantasy and CoC stories
You do not have to die or go insane and be quickly doomed in CoC unless you play in the style you play D&D. You need to change tactics and approaches. Of course it is a horror game and not a high power hero fantasy game so you are fighting a battle you cannot win forever. You can survive a lot of adventures if you do not try to shot your way through everything but you will not likely last years of weekly sessions without losing a character.
I like the idea of tracking "insanity" levels! I remember when I used to play Vampire: The Masquerade, we had a "Humanity" score from zero to ten. Committing heinous atrocities risked lowering your score. And when you hit zero, you basically lost control of your character and became a bloodthirsty, ravenous monster.
Never got onto Vampire had a few friends who did; with that said that sounds like a really awesome mechanic
This is a two year old video, but I still feel like your wife was under prepared to actually defend this game.
She explains how PCs die a lot or go fully insane. And thats very true .... in one shots. In campaign play, both pre-written adventures and Keeper made stories, are made to carry PCs along and to not straight kill them. "Mask of Nyarlathotep" is a very good pre-written campaign for COC that can last for years. The HUGE rumor of PCs always die, and the thought that this game is a GM vs. player mentality is a huge lie made by the 3 things. Misunderstanding of how the game works, bad keepers (not sorry for throwing them under the bus), and if the game is suppose to be a one shot thats short and deadly, or a campaign thats design to be one big investigation or a series of investigations. PCs personal stories are also very interictal to good COC games. Mechanics for making your back story and how insanity changes your personality and how you progress the game is very important to how a keeper would want to progress the story. Especially if the player uses his personal connection to regain sanity and lose the roll.
You guys barely touch on the systems, but systems should always fit the games main theme and presentation. D&D D20 system works great for "heroic" games where even a LVL1 PC could easily get a 20 and make a great stroke of skill and 1 to make great fails for stories. But D100 is design to fit clearly to realism. If your not good at something, dont expect to magically do it more than once or twice a campagn. In D100 systems, PCs are very inclined to work together and keep each others backs like a horror game. If you flip the systems, D&D use D100 and COC use D20, the games would feel drastically different and be completely different games. Not just by systems, but in tone and theme.
And you touch on it a little, but you try to use the argument "D&D system is so versatile, that you can play any game with it" (Not your words, but what I think you try to say) But, and I know D&D super fans will hate me, "a system thats a jack of all trades, is a master of none." Its a pretty flat system. Its decent on feeling like a heroic system, but I dont feel that different playing a D20 sytem compared to like a "storyteller" system or D100s system, with its pull for teamwork and full understanding of your roll/occupation (just personal opinion) The D&D system would have to go through a blender to even get close to the feel and tone of COC.
And other comments already beat me to it, but this was not a system discussion, this was more like a preference discussion on theme and personal play styles. Your wife clearly likes horror, gritty realism more than heroic high fantasy.
I like the soft/lower magic system of Call of Cthulhu better. But I do love D&D and play it frequently too. D&D does combat better.
What I don't like about CoC is that the base setting (the 1920s) does not really appeal to me. What I don't like about D&D is that you are basically super heros and that death is too rare and not typically permanent.
Just picked up Call of Cthulhu starter set and I’m going to run paper chase tonight. Never played CoC before but I have a feeling after reading through it’s going to super fun and different from our usual dnd 5e
I started with Worlds of Wonder (Basic Role-Playing). Slid right into Call of Cthulhu as it's the same system.
Every time I tried D&D (all editions other than 4th), I've absolutely hated it. Hated the rules. Hated classes. I'm not generally a Fantasy fan & particularly not Tolkien-esque Fantasy.
I've found Basic Role-Playing to be infinitely malleable in terms of setting and game style, while D&D is only really good at "fighting monsters." Yes, you can tell other types of stories, but that's what it's made for, so anything else means you're working against the mechanics.
Basic Role-Playing (& Call of Cthulhu) isn't the only game I love, but if it comes down to the two, there's no contest. I'll take BRP any day.
I ran a campaign. in Call of Cthulhu for over 4 years, yes the characters died, but everything built on the what came before.
I love both systems, and many more besides these. I disagree with her on how she sees CoC, though. Yes, it can be, and most often is played as she describes, but I have both played in and run campaign versions of CoC (6e). The investigators can get better if they gain different mental illnesses. 1910-1930's psychiatry wasn't anywhere near as good as today's, but they did help patients. So as both a player and a GM, I saw character development in CoC. Let me tell you, that was much more fun than the oh well, my PC died, here's another style.
Very interesting thank you
John Diffley, Bre here, that is a great prespective! Most unfortunately my Cthulhu experience campaign wise is limited to 3 sessions, but I would love to have a longer campaign to see that type of development and can absolutely see how that would be fulfilling. Thanks for the insight!
A world without orcs?....never! Love the vid!!!!
Enjoyed the video, but the name might be a touch misleading... This discussion seemed to be more about preference for setting and theme than system. The bit about d100 vs d20 perked my ears up, but then it just kinda wandered off to character styles. I love the idea of system vs system, however this was style preference vs style preference.
Fair assessment, thank you for the comment
Check out this video. ruclips.net/video/pNJATuB8mXo/видео.html
Not sure I understand why you're not into rolling d100, but ok with a d20. You're still trying to hit a certain number. In D&D, a +1 weapon is exactly the same as +5%. If it's the concept of trying to roll *below* a target number, how about reversing it? Instead of rolling 80 or under for an action that has an 80% chance of success, just say instead that you have a 20% chance of failure, and go for a 21 or higher...?
Scott here. I prefer the D20 system as to me it feels more "gamey" it can be added to subtracted to and kept within a compact easy to understand yet infinity adaptable and complex as you want it to be. My experience with d100 systems on a whole is that is is oversimplified and IMO does not carry that same "gamey" feel. Don't get me wrong some of my favorite games are d100s Call of Cthulhu, Outbreak Undead, Of dreams and Magic to name a few. I am just one of those players and GMs who enjoys the optimization of systems and crunchy bits. As long as the crunch is easy to understand, sometimes people get crazy with it lol.
You can still subtract and add to d100s
Hard to be a power gamer in COC which is awesome
Coolest intro ever man
With Bre on this one.
CoC over D&D
D&D focuses on the hero characters and their escalating power levels vs. Call of Cthulhu is about horror. Characters die in horror movies, games, RPGs...it's part of the trope. You can't complain that characters don't stick around from scenario to scenario when that's integral to the theme.
I have yet to play a Call of Cthulhu game and not Died. Not saying I didn't enjoy was a blast. But in Call of Cthulhu don't get attached to your character XD
Bre is correct on this one, but it's really a discussion of what system is a better Horror RPG. Percentile is an intuitive concept as opposed to whatever DnD is. Agreed campaign play is favored in a fantasy environment so DnD wins there as you can always be resurrected to keep things going. All great horror stories have a sanity element and DnD doesn't have that because it's not a horror RPG it's an adventure game.
So you think she is pretty!! YEAH
This is really not a system war it is mostly a genre preference war.
Seems like there should be some MU Skulls shirts in there somewhere....
annnnd...#teambre
Agreed
No system is right for all styles of play. 5th edition (and pretty much every edition of D&D) is essentially incompatible with Call of Cthulhu style horror. I've played nearly every edition of D&D, going back when I started in the 70s, but the "heroic" scale, the lack of integrated sanity mechanics, and the Vancian magic systems makes it a terrible choice for horror gaming. Sure you can house rule the bejeebus out of it, but at what point are you still playing the same game?
D&D is a fun romp that allows a lot of freedom on the other hand Call of Cthulhu is the greatest game ever made that is easy to play and lets people tell some horrifying stories.
How is she defending her nerddome when she is clearly more diverse in the hobby than him?
D&D is for beginners, it is sad when people stick to it
Pulp Cthulhu FTW!
Pulp is fun!
I hate D&D with a passion, I don't dislike fantasy though, I just find D&D too cheesy, camp and silly, I much prefer Warhammer and similar dark fantasy games that have a slight amount of realism to them.
I hate it as well. It don't see how any mature person can immerse in this trashy, unrealistic setting and the unnecessary complicated rules. This game is for immature people. But the main reason i hate it is, that everybody outside PnP only knows DnD and thinks that DnD und PnP are the same thing essentially. And since it's a fantasy-trash game, people with normal tastes are scared away from roleplaying games, which is unfortunate
Those arguments for not liking d100 are so lame 😒 you are just trying to anger your wife.
This is a video we would actually like to redo at some point because you are correct, we did not focus enough on the systems themselves. That and I've played 7th edition since then and I enjoy it much more
its the same system. bad video. you can use the same story and run it in the dnd story. not sure what she is trying to accomplish. She rolled way too low on persuasion to convince me CoC system is better than DnD. you can do many home brews with the dnd system. have your 1920 fantasy and CoC stories