It's enjoyable to see an artist, not just a builder, doing this kind of work properly, not shodily. All those proportions and details are not only sturcutrally sound, but asthetically pleasing.
I actually laughed when you said, "Corinthian columns: never use them!" Complete and utter genius. I love how you highlighted the fact that even "Victorian" houses adhere to the rules of proportion. I'm more of a High and Late Victorian nut myself, and I've come to the exact same conclusion studying A. J. Bicknell's millwork catalogues.
The sixth secret is the easiest one to remember * follow and pay attention to Brent Hull since he has already done the research! Great video and thanks for sharing. 😁👍👍👍👍👍
You are doing great work here Brent. Educating and sticking to principles. You are a gift to architecture and building globally. Once you know you cannot unsee how many bad jobs are out there.
Thank you for your wonderful channel. I studied architecture in Australia in the 80s and was penalised for designing symmetrical buildings (despite my lecturer admitting “this works really well! “) I had a wonderful History of Architecture lecturer who taught me the importance of proportion and geometry. Our education is severely lacking. Your teachings are so vital and much appreciated.
I have noticed this about some homes I have seen and wondered exactly why they didn't look quite right but couldn't put my finger on it. Now I know what my eyes and brain are noticing. Very interesting and informative video. Thank you.
I just rebuilt a porch in Detroit and realized ALL the porches around here have the capital extending beyond the beam. I thought i had misaligned all the brick column footings until I realized what was going on. Pretty cool! Learning!
I always enjoy your tutorials. As classic homes go I have noticed that you rarely see Corinthian columns . One that comes to mind ( yet no longer standing) was architect Henry Howard’s “Belle Grove” that once stood near Vacherie, La. Many thanks again, Brent!
Good point! I discourage people from using Corinthian because it is very difficult to get that order right (proportionally as well as tectonically) on new homes. Historically there are many good examples. The rotunda at UVA is an example. Thx.
This is fascinating stuff. As a lay person it's also very interesting reading some of the sentiment and concern about cost and who can afford this -- this is obviously already for people who are spending quite a bit and not about browbeating folks to break the bank on things they can't afford -- but as someone else wrote there are people paying these kinds of prices but receiving cheap designs, and they should really be getting better.
That's the point. How do customers know the difference unless they can see it. Now at least they can ask for it. Builders should be able to do this without great cost.
Could you do a video on porches for less elaborate houses, i.e., farmhouse or the historic vanacular home. Tuscan columns with entasis on farmhouse seems like I'm doing something wrong.
Brent, I totally agree extending the capital past the column neck. However, I would be interested in how you might better weatherproof the top of this extension that nobody will see. Maybe a thin stainless sheet with sealant? What would Matt Risinger do?
Great video. I think the perfect porch is mandatory for a house to be right. And I need to get on CAD and direct some of my old drawings to incorporate this old, yet indispensable, method. Thank you Brent!
I'm halfway through video and just realized his dog is sleeping on the foor. He/she has probably heard this lecture so many times that he/she doesn't listen anymore ☺
I run a center line, on a section, through the column so the structural beam is centered on that. That usually keeps the framers from putting the beam too far out. Great series - I find classical details are the hardest thing to do correctly.
Cusato's book _Get Your House Right_ is a great compact resource for getting these details right. Once you've had pointed out to you the correct traditional details, it's shocking how bad the poorly executed details on most modern houses look. Great video!
I learned something here today. Thank you Brent Hull. The funny thing, this, like many older builds, makes sense. The work is always intentional then vs. today. Many thanks.
I’m in for homeowner university. To the extent you could do regional classes (like as a subject not where you teach it) or classes for deep dives on a particular home style would be cool.
Thank you so much for these videos! So many of these details get glossed over in architecture school, and they are often not talked about in modern contexts like this.
I have a 30 year old traditional brick home with the vinyl trimmings, porch, upper siding and dormer’s etc. we bought just last year. I know this vinyl was not intended to last forever in this Texas heat. I know you work with the original old soul homes but, I would love to see a series on how to update the exterior of this type of home!!
Thank you for this educational information, the buildings are lacking in so much these days it’s information like this that can help future builders do it right
Thanks for sharing this Brent. We have a Greek Revival style porch that was added to our Italianate home many decades, if not a hundred years ago. Your content is an invaluable resource as we restore the historic elements of our house and try to uncover the home's history.
Not really, Historic precedent can be quite varied, even between front and back of the same house. I find it is tied to hierarchy of the home. A tall porch is more grand and maybe the door is 7 or 8' tall. A back porch is simple and maybe the door is 6'8 tall. It is really managing the entire composition.
It's funny you showed a picture of Monticello. I went there a few years ago and I knew about this concept back then. I find some of Jefferson's decisions questionable especially that porch. While it shows an entablature and the capitals stick out on the outside, there is no beam and it just supports a flat ceiling.
I was ready to argue in the comments about Victorian architecture not following classical tradition until you said that you've looked at it and measured it. I'll definitely take a closer look at some of those era porches, hopefully with a tape measure.
As a 3D modeler, you are my new favorite person. If you sell flashcards for the vocabulary, ratios, etc., that you share in this show, please tall me where I can buy them RIGHT AWAY! I'm so glad I found your channel. Now I feel, after learning from you, that I will finally be able to have meaningful discussions with architects. Can't wait to learn more from your other videos. SIDEBAR 1: It would have been useful, if you know, for your best suggestion for how to address the porch rail when code requires it to be "too high" according to a classical model. Do you make the column's pedestal 40" high? Obviously not, but I feel you could tell me the right answer. If not, it's ok. Thanks for all the work you're doing here. Please keep it up.
Thanks for this video Brent. Can you share the link to the video where you discuss water sitting on top of the capital? I had the same thought and would like to hear how this concern is addressed.
I don't address it in a video, someone brought it up in the comments. It is a non-issue (in that columns have been done this way for thousands of years) it just needs to be flashed properly.
Amazing, I’ve been listening to the passion for craft podcast and love it. I just got onto your RUclips channel and its top-class. Your video style of teaching and sharing building knowledge in this way is really unique to your channel and I really appreciate the detailed explanations. Its like going back to school but fun😂. Thanks a million
Thanks Brent, This was great. Charleston is my classroom for porches since every house there has one. I learn so much every time I go there. Still a bit uncertain on the engaged column/pier aspect since I have seen so many different things done. Not sure if there is an order for that part. Thanks again.
Charleston is a great lab for learning. I'm jealous. Pilaster should mimic the order for other columns, they are just square (no entasis) and engaged in the wall. Good luck.
Appreciate your videos. In architecture school, it was always called "en-TA-sis". Funny to hear you say "EN-ta-sis". I guess this is just "to-MAY-toe/to-MAH-toe"
About porches, every new porch i see is vinyl columns, and either pressure treated lumber deck, or concrete deck. What should an old soul porch be made of? What kind of lumber?
Maybe it will help me in rebuilding my back porch on my Craftsman home. Catch is it was enclosed and enlarged at one point. Trying to balance needs versus what was there at first, and how to even deduce what was there.
You can do half columns and then maintain a cornice, architrave and frieze. Then between the columns do something akin to wainscotting then put windows between what would be the chair rail if it were interior and the architrave. It will be distinct from the house as a porch is, and with the windows, maintain the openness of a porch, all while being enclosed
I would start by peeling back to the original columns and using those as a starting place for design. Find historical photos- pre-enclosure- and use that for design inspiration. Good luck.
Outstanding videos of yours. The real carpenter's / craftsman would be wise to subscribe to your RUclips channel. Your valuable information is second to none. 😃🙏
Thanks Brent, is there a rule to the dimensions of the pedestal cap? Arts and crafts 1928, brick pedestals. I was going to have them overhang two inches around and four inches tall.
Fantastic video. What do you do if you need a railing to meet code but it does not fit into the classical dimension? Can you do a video on tricks for that?
I know you said the beam connection should have visual significance and not the worry about it collecting water, but I live in the Pacific Northwest and we get a lot of water year round. Will there really not be any long term impact on the structural integrity?
3000 years of building this way says no. Surely there is some roof overhang protecting this. AND you will obviously need to flash the capital. If you want, buy composite columns that are architecturally correct like Permastone from Chadsworth. They will not rot, you don't even have to flash them.
Lots to think about. Wonder what (if any) applies to.the typical ranch with 4x4 columns supporting a 4x12 beam, which in turn, supports a section of roof.
Good question. There are simple columns (almost vernacular) which still are good. The ranch period is not really a classical style so it is on the edge for me. Thx.
If we are doing square columns on a colonial farmhouse with a 1 story wrap around porch, should the columns still have entasis or should they just be equal all the way up? And would we still have an entablature but just a simplified version? Thanks for the video it was incredibly helpful!
Realize that square columns, (called piers) are not as common as round. However, no, they typically do not have entasis. The Entablature should not be reduced. I'm glad it helped.
I’m looking for an exterior stucco removal video if you have one. I bought a 100 year old single story house that has the old colonial style wood siding underneath. Originally it looks like it was a 2 room house with the lath and plaster walls. At some point, another wing was added much later with drywall for an interior covering. So my best guess is, they didn’t want the wood siding on the new addition for whatever reason and stuccoed the whole thing. If I remove the stucco, will it destroy the original siding underneath?
Could i call the woodwork below the roofline, ie. the fascia , crown, corbels, soffit, bedmold, frieze "entabulature" as well or is that just for porches?
I think Brent demonstrates in his video where this applies. The Greek and Roman orders are applied to the whole building, not just the porch. But in the American houses, the porch is where it is apparent with the columns.
Yes, historically in classical homes it was part of the proportioning for the exterior of the home. You see this most clearly in Greek Revival homes. Often pilasters, engaged in the wall support a full entablature at the top. Thx.
I guess I'm thinking in a more general sense. The original Greek temples had the same entablature around the building, not just where the columns are--the portico. Same with Neo-classical public buildings. But that's apparently too formal or too expensive for most houses. @@MOUTHonesixtyseven
Anyone got a link for that video Brent mentions about column and overhang for beams. Having a facebook convo with some tc's and would rather share that.
Something I’m still trying to understand: the plinth block supporting the column is optional-yes? In your mock up, it makes part of the 8ft height. In an interior, it would mark the spot for a chair rail. But on an exterior porch, ground floor, that column would go all the way to the floor (and because we’re below the 1/3 mark on the column, entasis has already stopped. The diameter wouldn’t change at that low level-yes?) And, how far up on the plinth marks the height for baseboards (in an interior)?
I don't have the answer for all of this, but you certainly can have a column without the plinth. Then the porch or the foundation of the house are the plinth.
I think you are confusing the plinth with the pedestal. The pedestal established the height of the chair rail and hand rail height on a porch. It is also true that a column on a pedestal will have a thinner diameter which will effect the height. A column on a pedestal still has entasis. It is a proportional relationship that i will need to dig into on a separate video. The plinth is the block or base the column sits on and is typically short less (2-4") it often established a base board height on an interior. Watch my plinth video for more.
I assume these same rules apply for a porch on a log cabin? A two story porch on a log cabin similar to your Louisiana porch designs? I am sure I cant find any log cabin 2-story porch designs that follow these rules, so do I use the Louisiana porch pictures or timber frame 2story porch designs? will the details or trim be same thickness just less detail? I have watched this video 3 times at slow speed to make sure i got it hardly any of the google search images of two story porches show entasis and they all look weak, wobbly the second story is the same width posts as first level
Google search is a bad source. You need to have a library of historic materials. For log cabins I would use the book. Parks and Recreation Structures. This a 1938 book that was reprinted in 1990. You can find copies on Ebay. Good luck.
@@BrentHull there were two different versions so I ordered both. one was Park and Recreation Structures, Vol. 1 (Classic Reprint) and Patterns from the Golden Age of Rustic Design : Park and Recreation Structures from the 1930s. both by Author Albert H. Good. I have been buying the books you have been recommending. best one received yet is Field Guide to American Homes, McAlister. I ordered yours last week, out for delivery today. I am sure it will become my favorite thanks a bunch
I like watching your videos your very knowledgeable, I’ve seen columns on houses in England like new houses and it’s all wrong people don’t have a clue, I lived in America, I think Americans contractors and carpenters know more about classical architecture than the English, the English don’t know sh*t.
@@BrentHull I am intrigued by Victorian style, like how it spread, how varied it is, and for the most part despite its variations, how captivating it is.
You need to make sure the entire house can actually carry and work with this high styled order. I'm happy to help and you can send ideas to info@brenthull.com but the entire house, both inside and out should be very elegant. I don't want you to stick Corinthian columns on a house that should be Tuscan.
Unless it was a palace I don’t think a Corinthian or even composite would be appropriate. The Doric, Ionic and Tuscan are all perfectly suited to house porches. Even small to medium mansion porches.
Yes. I think of the entasis as showing the "muscle" of the column and also the shape of tree trunks that formed the first columns. A straight column looks weak, and a tapered conical column is just weird.
So, SO!! often i pull up to a new house and the porch beam is intentionally built wide enough to cover the capital on the column. It looks horrible!! If i happen to mention it, there's usually a guy who believes he's gone the "extra mile" that says "Oh we dont like that look here" Now i know who im dealing with at least...lol
Don’t make the porch 24” or more off the ground and you don’t need to. Or if you have to you can use glass or wire to cheat and maintain the visual proportion
Residential code reads 34 1/2" to 42" in height. I don't know why so many builders go to the highest. I have many videos about this and there are ways to disguise this without building cages. Thx.
It's not the same. There aren't mathematical proportions-- it's more about the overall look. Craftsman is a later concept, whereas the proportions of Classical have been studied, copied, adapted, and abused etc. for centuries. Look at Brent's video on Craftsman. Generally Craftsman is going to be heavier looking and simpler, more low and horizontal. Measure a good-looking Craftsman porch. You will find elements like the capital and shaft are thicker than you think. Don't go light. There are lot of variations-- so of course if you get to architects like Greene and Greene, it's another story again. Also there CAN be classical looking columns in a Craftsman house but they are used less formally and mostly you'll see square columns with a straight taper.
Yeah they do, the taper is entasis, they still need a capital, the entablature is less detailed but should exist, the pedestal is usually brick or stone. Craftsman houses were the last style to follow classical order.
This is true! But also the Craftsman style comes from the Arts and Crafts movement and the reference are to vernacular buildings and simplicity that the "common man" can produce as opposed to simple replication of classical forms, or industrial milled materials. So these are not temples or ostentatious castles, but represent comfort , retreat, and shelter, more along the lines of modest cottages. Again, there are exceptions where the art has been transformed to something more sublime. @@TheSeriesofTubes
The craftsman house is so varied there aren't "rules" because they can vary so much. Essentially this style is a rustic/simple/vernacular style inspiration and the columns are strong and simple. From the square brick piers as columns. To strong piers with tapered columns, to strong pedestals with rustic columns. The rules that often still apply is that the neck of the column matches the beam height and the column dimension still is proportional to the height.
I love watching and learning so much . Can you stop saying “ OK “ constantly ? Really distracting . I wish more builders watched you and followed . Our country would be prettier !
Seemed very helpful but I gave up after the 50th or so time you said “OK” at the end of a sentence. Verbal tics are easy to correct once they’re brought to a persons attention. Go back and review this presentation, OK? 😎 Otherwise good information.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
It's enjoyable to see an artist, not just a builder, doing this kind of work properly, not shodily. All those proportions and details are not only sturcutrally sound, but asthetically pleasing.
Amen. Thx.
I actually laughed when you said, "Corinthian columns: never use them!" Complete and utter genius. I love how you highlighted the fact that even "Victorian" houses adhere to the rules of proportion. I'm more of a High and Late Victorian nut myself, and I've come to the exact same conclusion studying A. J. Bicknell's millwork catalogues.
Glad you enjoyed it! Yes, Bicknell is a great resource. Thx!!
This is the education I had no idea that I needed.
I hope it helps.
The sixth secret is the easiest one to remember * follow and pay attention to Brent Hull since he has already done the research! Great video and thanks for sharing. 😁👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks so much.
You are doing great work here Brent. Educating and sticking to principles. You are a gift to architecture and building globally. Once you know you cannot unsee how many bad jobs are out there.
Thanks and agreed!
Best channel on RUclips, and it’s not even close
Thank you!!
“Some will say, ‘But it will collect water.’ Stop it! Just stop it.” - Brent Hull
Haha. True.
I one there was a reason I Haven't yet started remodeling. I had to come to class first.
Haha, welcome.
Thank you for your wonderful channel. I studied architecture in Australia in the 80s and was penalised for designing symmetrical buildings (despite my lecturer admitting “this works really well! “) I had a wonderful History of Architecture lecturer who taught me the importance of proportion and geometry. Our education is severely lacking. Your teachings are so vital and much appreciated.
Thanks for sharing! I'm glad to hear it.
To me, a porch is another very important room in the house, and I live and work out there much of the year. "Go find a porch you love...."
Agreed. Thanks.
I have noticed this about some homes I have seen and wondered exactly why they didn't look quite right but couldn't put my finger on it. Now I know what my eyes and brain are noticing. Very interesting and informative video. Thank you.
Thanks for watching
It's like i've been to architectural school after watching your videos Brent; you are a wealth of knowledge and it's the right kind of knowledge.
So glad to hear it. Thx.
I just rebuilt a porch in Detroit and realized ALL the porches around here have the capital extending beyond the beam. I thought i had misaligned all the brick column footings until I realized what was going on. Pretty cool! Learning!
Nice. Thx for sharing.
I always enjoy your tutorials. As classic homes go I have noticed that you rarely see Corinthian columns . One that comes to mind ( yet no longer standing) was architect Henry Howard’s “Belle Grove” that once stood near Vacherie, La. Many thanks again, Brent!
Good point! I discourage people from using Corinthian because it is very difficult to get that order right (proportionally as well as tectonically) on new homes. Historically there are many good examples. The rotunda at UVA is an example. Thx.
Thanks Brent. We are just finishing a new home with a craftsman porch. Got it right!
So glad to hear it. Cheers
Always one of the best channels on this subject.
Thanks for watching.
Great attention to detail
Thank you! Cheers!
This is fascinating stuff. As a lay person it's also very interesting reading some of the sentiment and concern about cost and who can afford this -- this is obviously already for people who are spending quite a bit and not about browbeating folks to break the bank on things they can't afford -- but as someone else wrote there are people paying these kinds of prices but receiving cheap designs, and they should really be getting better.
That's the point. How do customers know the difference unless they can see it. Now at least they can ask for it. Builders should be able to do this without great cost.
Could you do a video on porches for less elaborate houses, i.e., farmhouse or the historic vanacular home. Tuscan columns with entasis on farmhouse seems like I'm doing something wrong.
Will do. Thanks.
Brent,
I totally agree extending the capital past the column neck. However, I would be interested in how you might better weatherproof the top of this extension that nobody will see. Maybe a thin stainless sheet with sealant? What would Matt Risinger do?
copper or ss sheet w/lexel
I'll need to do a video, but historically we find thin sheet metal covers this well. Thx.
Great video. I think the perfect porch is mandatory for a house to be right. And I need to get on CAD and direct some of my old drawings to incorporate this old, yet indispensable, method. Thank you Brent!
Thanks for watching.
Love it. So much to learn. I’ll have to watch this many times to catch all the wonderful points.
Thanks!!
I'm halfway through video and just realized his dog is sleeping on the foor. He/she has probably heard this lecture so many times that he/she doesn't listen anymore ☺
haha, true.
There's alot more to architecture than I thought!😮
Yep! A lot more than I even know.
I’m in the process of replacing columns from a 1937 build. Thank you for the input!
Thanks, i hope it helps.
I run a center line, on a section, through the column so the structural beam is centered on that. That usually keeps the framers from putting the beam too far out. Great series - I find classical details are the hardest thing to do correctly.
Great tip! I agree.
Cusato's book _Get Your House Right_ is a great compact resource for getting these details right. Once you've had pointed out to you the correct traditional details, it's shocking how bad the poorly executed details on most modern houses look. Great video!
Agreed. 100% its shocking. thx.
I learned something here today. Thank you Brent Hull. The funny thing, this, like many older builds, makes sense. The work is always intentional then vs. today. Many thanks.
Agreed. thx.
Great talk, thank you!
Thank you!
I’m in for homeowner university. To the extent you could do regional classes (like as a subject not where you teach it) or classes for deep dives on a particular home style would be cool.
Good to know Thanks!
Nice..... This is what creates the sweetness. Ratio. We used to take this stuff seriously. Great video!!!!!! Thank you.
Yes! Thank you!
Was here for a Porsches discussion. But learned a lot.
Hahaha, good. g
Thank you so much for these videos! So many of these details get glossed over in architecture school, and they are often not talked about in modern contexts like this.
Nice. good to hear. Thx.
This is just plain outstanding, so very glad I found this channel, instant sub
Welcome aboard! Thanks for watching.
I have a 30 year old traditional brick home with the vinyl trimmings, porch, upper siding and dormer’s etc. we bought just last year. I know this vinyl was not intended to last forever in this Texas heat. I know you work with the original old soul homes but, I would love to see a series on how to update the exterior of this type of home!!
Good suggestion. Let me see.
Thank you for this educational information, the buildings are lacking in so much these days it’s information like this that can help future builders do it right
Glad it was helpful! THx.
Your a good man Brent, I love your enthusiasm,👍
Thank you!!
Quick note on railings. The top of the rail typically lined up with (or a little shy of) the bottom of the windows.
Thanks.
Thanks for sharing this Brent. We have a Greek Revival style porch that was added to our Italianate home many decades, if not a hundred years ago. Your content is an invaluable resource as we restore the historic elements of our house and try to uncover the home's history.
So glad to hear it. Thx.
Good stuff again. A good quick reminder through past videos on proportions as well.
Nice. Thanks for watching.
Is there a proportion rule about how much taller the porch ceiling should be relative to the door it's leading to (or vs windows it shades)?
Not really, Historic precedent can be quite varied, even between front and back of the same house. I find it is tied to hierarchy of the home. A tall porch is more grand and maybe the door is 7 or 8' tall. A back porch is simple and maybe the door is 6'8 tall. It is really managing the entire composition.
Thank you for this. You're such a great instructor.
Thanks! I'm glad it was helpful!
It's funny you showed a picture of Monticello. I went there a few years ago and I knew about this concept back then. I find some of Jefferson's decisions questionable especially that porch. While it shows an entablature and the capitals stick out on the outside, there is no beam and it just supports a flat ceiling.
Hmm, I'll check it out. I don't remember that. Thx.
Excellent information all in one place. Thank you! I now how to fix my porch :)
Glad it was helpful! THx.
I was ready to argue in the comments about Victorian architecture not following classical tradition until you said that you've looked at it and measured it. I'll definitely take a closer look at some of those era porches, hopefully with a tape measure.
Thanks. Let me know what you find.
As a 3D modeler, you are my new favorite person. If you sell flashcards for the vocabulary, ratios, etc., that you share in this show, please tall me where I can buy them RIGHT AWAY! I'm so glad I found your channel. Now I feel, after learning from you, that I will finally be able to have meaningful discussions with architects. Can't wait to learn more from your other videos. SIDEBAR 1: It would have been useful, if you know, for your best suggestion for how to address the porch rail when code requires it to be "too high" according to a classical model. Do you make the column's pedestal 40" high? Obviously not, but I feel you could tell me the right answer. If not, it's ok. Thanks for all the work you're doing here. Please keep it up.
The trick is to make them the architecturally correct height but then add a thin bar to bring them to code. Also thanks for comments. Welcome aboard.
Thanks for this video Brent. Can you share the link to the video where you discuss water sitting on top of the capital? I had the same thought and would like to hear how this concern is addressed.
I don't address it in a video, someone brought it up in the comments. It is a non-issue (in that columns have been done this way for thousands of years) it just needs to be flashed properly.
@@BrentHullCould you possibly do a vid on the flashing?
Amazing, I’ve been listening to the passion for craft podcast and love it. I just got onto your RUclips channel and its top-class. Your video style of teaching and sharing building knowledge in this way is really unique to your channel and I really appreciate the detailed explanations. Its like going back to school but fun😂.
Thanks a million
So nice to hear it. Cheers.
Great information Brent 👏🏻
Thanks!!
Thank you very much for the class.
You are welcome!
Thanks Brent, This was great. Charleston is my classroom for porches since every house there has one. I learn so much every time I go there. Still a bit uncertain on the engaged column/pier aspect since I have seen so many different things done. Not sure if there is an order for that part. Thanks again.
Charleston is a great lab for learning. I'm jealous. Pilaster should mimic the order for other columns, they are just square (no entasis) and engaged in the wall. Good luck.
Appreciate your videos.
In architecture school, it was always called "en-TA-sis". Funny to hear you say "EN-ta-sis".
I guess this is just "to-MAY-toe/to-MAH-toe"
I think so, I may be wrong. I've heard it both ways.
About porches, every new porch i see is vinyl columns, and either pressure treated lumber deck, or concrete deck.
What should an old soul porch be made of?
What kind of lumber?
We have begun using Accoya and Kebony for porch decks. We use a traditional 3 1/2" T&G porch floor with wood columns that breath. Good luck.
Maybe it will help me in rebuilding my back porch on my Craftsman home. Catch is it was enclosed and enlarged at one point. Trying to balance needs versus what was there at first, and how to even deduce what was there.
You can do half columns and then maintain a cornice, architrave and frieze. Then between the columns do something akin to wainscotting then put windows between what would be the chair rail if it were interior and the architrave. It will be distinct from the house as a porch is, and with the windows, maintain the openness of a porch, all while being enclosed
I would start by peeling back to the original columns and using those as a starting place for design. Find historical photos- pre-enclosure- and use that for design inspiration. Good luck.
Thanks for the info Brent 😃👍🏼👊🏼
Any time! thx for watching.
Where would you suggest purchasing columns from? What suppliers have you used?
Chadsworth columns are architecturally correct. We have many of ours custom made. Thx.
Outstanding videos of yours. The real carpenter's / craftsman would be wise to subscribe to your RUclips channel. Your valuable information is second to none. 😃🙏
Thanks so much.
Thanks Brent, is there a rule to the dimensions of the pedestal cap? Arts and crafts 1928, brick pedestals. I was going to have them overhang two inches around and four inches tall.
I think you mean Plinth and not pedestal. There is historic precedent for both. I would find one you like and go measure it.
Fantastic video. What do you do if you need a railing to meet code but it does not fit into the classical dimension? Can you do a video on tricks for that?
I already have. Check out porches. Thx.
👍
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching!
Wow.
Thx.
Excellent.
Thank you! Cheers!
I know you said the beam connection should have visual significance and not the worry about it collecting water, but I live in the Pacific Northwest and we get a lot of water year round. Will there really not be any long term impact on the structural integrity?
3000 years of building this way says no. Surely there is some roof overhang protecting this. AND you will obviously need to flash the capital. If you want, buy composite columns that are architecturally correct like Permastone from Chadsworth. They will not rot, you don't even have to flash them.
Lots to think about. Wonder what (if any) applies to.the typical ranch with 4x4 columns supporting a 4x12 beam, which in turn, supports a section of roof.
I think there is. Spend some time with the proportions and see what looks right.
Good question. There are simple columns (almost vernacular) which still are good. The ranch period is not really a classical style so it is on the edge for me. Thx.
I would love to work for you, I would learn so much 👍
Thx.
If we are doing square columns on a colonial farmhouse with a 1 story wrap around porch, should the columns still have entasis or should they just be equal all the way up? And would we still have an entablature but just a simplified version? Thanks for the video it was incredibly helpful!
Realize that square columns, (called piers) are not as common as round. However, no, they typically do not have entasis. The Entablature should not be reduced. I'm glad it helped.
What does this have to do with high performance sports cars ?
...?
I’m looking for an exterior stucco removal video if you have one. I bought a 100 year old single story house that has the old colonial style wood siding underneath. Originally it looks like it was a 2 room house with the lath and plaster walls. At some point, another wing was added much later with drywall for an interior covering. So my best guess is, they didn’t want the wood siding on the new addition for whatever reason and stuccoed the whole thing. If I remove the stucco, will it destroy the original siding underneath?
Hmm, i haven't seen that before. I suspect it will, of course it depends how they applied it over your siding. Good luck.
Is that historic home in Austin an open to the public home or someone's private home?
Private. Thx.
Could i call the woodwork below the roofline, ie. the fascia , crown, corbels, soffit, bedmold, frieze "entabulature" as well or is that just for porches?
I think Brent demonstrates in his video where this applies. The Greek and Roman orders are applied to the whole building, not just the porch. But in the American houses, the porch is where it is apparent with the columns.
Yes, historically in classical homes it was part of the proportioning for the exterior of the home. You see this most clearly in Greek Revival homes. Often pilasters, engaged in the wall support a full entablature at the top. Thx.
@@BrentHull No, thank you. Appreciate it!
@@pcatful Yeah, that's why I was curious. I've only ever seen the term entablature documented on porches. Thanks
I guess I'm thinking in a more general sense. The original Greek temples had the same entablature around the building, not just where the columns are--the portico. Same with Neo-classical public buildings. But that's apparently too formal or too expensive for most houses. @@MOUTHonesixtyseven
Excellent porch design tutorial. I see soooo many hacked porches and it ruins a front elevation.
I totally agree!
Anyone got a link for that video Brent mentions about column and overhang for beams. Having a facebook convo with some tc's and would rather share that.
Not sure which one you want, here are a couple.
ruclips.net/video/UUUpj2Du8wY/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/0dRjRw_TCUg/видео.html
Where do you find columns with entasis? Especially 2 story exterior? It seems that everyone just makes the straight columns
Chadsworth for one. Thanks
Something I’m still trying to understand: the plinth block supporting the column is optional-yes? In your mock up, it makes part of the 8ft height. In an interior, it would mark the spot for a chair rail. But on an exterior porch, ground floor, that column would go all the way to the floor (and because we’re below the 1/3 mark on the column, entasis has already stopped. The diameter wouldn’t change at that low level-yes?)
And, how far up on the plinth marks the height for baseboards (in an interior)?
I don't have the answer for all of this, but you certainly can have a column without the plinth. Then the porch or the foundation of the house are the plinth.
I think you are confusing the plinth with the pedestal. The pedestal established the height of the chair rail and hand rail height on a porch. It is also true that a column on a pedestal will have a thinner diameter which will effect the height. A column on a pedestal still has entasis. It is a proportional relationship that i will need to dig into on a separate video. The plinth is the block or base the column sits on and is typically short less (2-4") it often established a base board height on an interior. Watch my plinth video for more.
My Monterey Colonial has no fancy stuff
True. The Monterey is vary basic but works well.
Thanks for sharing, it may fall into the vernacular category of colonial which is simpler.
Isn’t an unenclosed porch a portico?
Porticos are typically on the front and are not as big as porches.
I assume these same rules apply for a porch on a log cabin? A two story porch on a log cabin similar to your Louisiana porch designs? I am sure I cant find any log cabin 2-story porch designs that follow these rules, so do I use the Louisiana porch pictures or timber frame 2story porch designs? will the details or trim be same thickness just less detail?
I have watched this video 3 times at slow speed to make sure i got it
hardly any of the google search images of two story porches show entasis and they all look weak, wobbly
the second story is the same width posts as first level
Google search is a bad source. You need to have a library of historic materials. For log cabins I would use the book. Parks and Recreation Structures. This a 1938 book that was reprinted in 1990. You can find copies on Ebay. Good luck.
@@BrentHull there were two different versions so I ordered both. one was Park and Recreation Structures, Vol. 1 (Classic Reprint) and Patterns from the Golden Age of Rustic Design : Park and Recreation Structures from the 1930s. both by Author Albert H. Good. I have been buying the books you have been recommending. best one received yet is Field Guide to American Homes, McAlister. I ordered yours last week, out for delivery today. I am sure it will become my favorite
thanks a bunch
👍
Thx.
This video was unexpected in my feed no fault of yours I read it quickly and expected to see Porsches
Haha. sorry about that.
I like watching your videos your very knowledgeable, I’ve seen columns on houses in England like new houses and it’s all wrong people don’t have a clue, I lived in America, I think Americans contractors and carpenters know more about classical architecture than the English, the English don’t know sh*t.
Interesting. I haven't heard that.
I guess a Victorian porch spandrel is just a very delicate way of expanding the entablature?
There is a lot of creative license but yes, that is the idea. Thx.
@@BrentHull I am intrigued by Victorian style, like how it spread, how varied it is, and for the most part despite its variations, how captivating it is.
I literally want a Corinthian columned house, can’t you just sketch me one Brent
You can find these delineated in various texts. You can even have then carved by a computer from marble if you got the bucks.
You need to make sure the entire house can actually carry and work with this high styled order. I'm happy to help and you can send ideas to info@brenthull.com but the entire house, both inside and out should be very elegant. I don't want you to stick Corinthian columns on a house that should be Tuscan.
complete gold...saved.
Nice! Thx.
What about craftsman, many of these homes do not have the classical columns on the porches.
I have a different video on tapered and craftsman columns. Thx.
Unless it was a palace I don’t think a Corinthian or even composite would be appropriate. The Doric, Ionic and Tuscan are all perfectly suited to house porches. Even small to medium mansion porches.
Agreed. Thx
Is entasis just another manifestation of counteracting perspective distortion of the human eye, like graduation of fenestration?
Yes. I think of the entasis as showing the "muscle" of the column and also the shape of tree trunks that formed the first columns. A straight column looks weak, and a tapered conical column is just weird.
Yes, that is part of it. Thanks.
“Just stop it!” & FLASH IT!!!!
Ok. Thx.
So, SO!! often i pull up to a new house and the porch beam is intentionally built wide enough to cover the capital on the column. It looks horrible!!
If i happen to mention it, there's usually a guy who believes he's gone the "extra mile" that says
"Oh we dont like that look here"
Now i know who im dealing with at least...lol
LOL> Yes you do.
Unfortunely our building code says railings need to be close to waist high. Ends up looking like you're in a baby crib! Horrible!
Don’t make the porch 24” or more off the ground and you don’t need to. Or if you have to you can use glass or wire to cheat and maintain the visual proportion
Residential code reads 34 1/2" to 42" in height. I don't know why so many builders go to the highest. I have many videos about this and there are ways to disguise this without building cages. Thx.
These rules do not apply to a Craftsman house. What are the rules for a Craftsman?
It's not the same. There aren't mathematical proportions-- it's more about the overall look. Craftsman is a later concept, whereas the proportions of Classical have been studied, copied, adapted, and abused etc. for centuries. Look at Brent's video on Craftsman. Generally Craftsman is going to be heavier looking and simpler, more low and horizontal. Measure a good-looking Craftsman porch. You will find elements like the capital and shaft are thicker than you think. Don't go light. There are lot of variations-- so of course if you get to architects like Greene and Greene, it's another story again. Also there CAN be classical looking columns in a Craftsman house but they are used less formally and mostly you'll see square columns with a straight taper.
So what are the rules! Answer my question. I am all for systems that account for evolution. Just Answer the question!!!
Yeah they do, the taper is entasis, they still need a capital, the entablature is less detailed but should exist, the pedestal is usually brick or stone. Craftsman houses were the last style to follow classical order.
This is true! But also the Craftsman style comes from the Arts and Crafts movement and the reference are to vernacular buildings and simplicity that the "common man" can produce as opposed to simple replication of classical forms, or industrial milled materials. So these are not temples or ostentatious castles, but represent comfort , retreat, and shelter, more along the lines of modest cottages. Again, there are exceptions where the art has been transformed to something more sublime. @@TheSeriesofTubes
The craftsman house is so varied there aren't "rules" because they can vary so much. Essentially this style is a rustic/simple/vernacular style inspiration and the columns are strong and simple. From the square brick piers as columns. To strong piers with tapered columns, to strong pedestals with rustic columns. The rules that often still apply is that the neck of the column matches the beam height and the column dimension still is proportional to the height.
Imagine my shame when I discovered my house was designed by peasants. PEASANTS! Can you even imagine?
Haha, mine too!!
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm so tired of these new builds with the most ridiculous and meaningless columns!
Amen.
I love watching and learning so much . Can you stop saying “ OK “ constantly ? Really distracting .
I wish more builders watched you and followed . Our country would be prettier !
I don’t notice it at all. It is a style of speaking. “OK” is a way of adding a pause and emphasis into a train of thought.
Noted. Thanks.
Seemed very helpful but I gave up after the 50th or so time you said “OK” at the end of a sentence.
Verbal tics are easy to correct once they’re brought to a persons attention. Go back and review this presentation, OK? 😎
Otherwise good information.
Noted. Thx.