How Toe Hang affects a Putting Stroke (A Toe Hang Study)
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- I paired up with David Frisch at Goodwood Golf Co to do a study on the affects of toe hang on a putting stroke. We used 3 putters with different toe hangs and had 27 random volunteers capture data on SAM Lab. We recorded their data and interviewed them at the end. Some of the results were surprising, others interesting, but I do think I learned a few things along the way. While you're rolling putts on your perfect practice putting mat, relax and lets go on a toe hang journey.
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Probably the most extensive analysis on the topic in the whole internet… More videos like this needed
Very interesting! So there is some tendency but the exact outcome is up to each player. Superb!
Thank you for very well implemented - almost scientific - study. Planning to get a new putter and now I know yet another parameter and how it affects te game.
Great work! This was fun. I would love to see an arc putter use the three and see what the data showed with the same swing and a few more degree of toe hang. Again, awesome stuff.
I would say that what your process shows is that the small forces caused by varying toe hang are easily overcome by the forces applied by the person doing the putting. Apparently we have no idea what we are feeling when testing putters!
I’m not surprised that arc shapes are not significantly affected by the toe hang. Just as you said, arc shape and shaft rotation are two different things, and toe hang is directly related to the latter. The twisting torque generated by toe hang is also very weak, so that it’s not expected to apply significant amount of force on the golfer’s hand.
The arc shape is slightly related to shaft rotation pattern, and the rotation pattern is directly related to the toe hang. The toe hang can influence on the rotation pattern by some degree, but it’s not decisive, and will not change the whole arc shape. The mainstream opinion is that we should match the toe hang with the arc shape, but I’d say that we should match the toe hang with the rotation pattern, and the arc shape can only provide a partial information on the rotation.
Fantastic video. Best real test data on this topic I have seen. Thanks for the effort.
This was outstanding. I have an arcing stroke and always liked the face balanced better, great video
Should have got data on launch down the laser line and also study lag putts I.e. does toe hang affect over or under hitting. In my anecdotal experience, face balanced is a slight push, 20 degree toe hang is perfect, 45 slight pull, 80 degree is all over the place. Ping B60 gives me the toe hang I need. Now do a video on plumbers necks/offset
I have a full toe hang, 45 hang and Phantom 5.5. All high end putters. I rotate all of them through the starting lineup. Really hard to commit. This video helped me not eliminate the full toe hang
Shows what I always thought, toe hang has nothing to do with how you actually hit the putter (the only thing I noticed here in the quick view is impact location on the face was more towards heel w/ more toe hang but that is still inconclusive). I've always thought that was a big golf myth based on my own obsession with messing with putters. There are so many more variables that are way more important including weight, balance, length, shape, hosel, lineup lines, etc etc.
What direction were the misses from the players which each type
Enjoyed that study. It even seems like the industry sends different messages than each other...ie Scotty cameron calls it toe flow and more toe hang is more toe flow, others like PING say more toe hang is harder to close because of the force you need to apply to the grip to close the face. My experience is more toe hang is harder to close and I miss right...I like a face balance putter. I would add the type a shaft makes a big difference on the face balance putter to how consistent I can hit my lines. Double bend I hit great(love it), single bend good, centre shaft I have trouble returning the face consistently to square...i don't like it at all
I'm the exact opposite. I push face balanced putters well right...and feel like I have to rotate the head beyond square in order to actually square them up! I'm lucky to have a bunch of vintage Ping putters with varying degrees of toe-hang. From AYD and DAY toe-hang, ZING slightly less, ANSER less yet, and PAL nearly face balanced...as well as an original Zebra full face balanced putter. I definitely putt best with more toe-hang. The AYD is my go-to...as well as a vintage Spalding Elite VII heal shafted flange putter. In modern putters I use an Odyssey PT #9HT.
1) I'm curious as to the Length of putt used. A minimum of 8 feet would have been necessary and 12 feet would have shown more data.
2) I couldn't tell amount of Arc vs. Straight Strokers in the test group.
3) Mechanically, a Face Balanced Putter will stay Square to Path backwards and forwards, while a Toe Hang Putter will *Close* in the Back Stroke and *Open* in the Forward Stroke.
Rig each putter as a pendulum that allows the Shaft to Pivot, and watch the Face as the Putter swings back and forth.
Great job with the investigation man!
Excellent. Someone trying to study this. I can’t believe that a slightly heavy toe actually changes the stroke in the hands of a strong man. It must be nonsense?.
Very interesting Jaime! Enjoyed the analysis. I've always preferred the toe hang over the face balanced putter (not really sure why... just like the feel). One additional question: what are the effects of the putter head weight (e.g. a blade style maybe at 340g vs a mallet style maybe at 400g). Would this affect the players length and pace of their stroke? Would the speed of the greens come in to play for which putter you might want to use? Or is it just more a personal preference? Thanks.
Weight "could" affect length of stroke but wouldnt have to. In theory one would think a heavier weight would slow down the stroke but it may depend on how the player reacts to feeling the weight. Do they apply more force to move it faster? Its interesting to me that players spend time getting fit for drivers and irons but not often for putters
Nice job Jamie!
Torque in the putter design ill affects the stroke thus we have compensations I have found the mass balanced HONU putter which has no torque is THE answer, full stop.
SCIENCEEEEEE. I’ve always been interested if using the line on the ball actually helps people aim at the target. Also how the sight line (dot, no dot, line of flange) influences most people and whether it correlates to eye dominance.
Yeah I should do one about ball line vs not. Good idea. Edel has a bunch of things about aim bias in putter design but I dont believe they are using a ball line
I was part of a big study a university in Germany was conducting regarding aiming lines on golf balls. The findings concluded it only helped if it helped. No objective winner. If you like it, have at it, if not, it’s no hindrance whatsoever.
Great video! This last year I started using a slight arc putter and fell in love after being very streaky with face balanced putters. One other factor for me was eye placement for the stroke as well after trying to make myself feel comfortable using the line on a golf ball, and why it doesn't work for everyone. I feel much better being "eye inside" an inch or so rather than directly over top. It really affects the alignment and perception of where the target is.
@@jtimber5 I use a ball line only in practice...it lets me know if my roll is pure.
Jaime, I have a question about the soundtrack of your video. During the interviews, you have the voices over a piano rendition of "I've Never Been in Love Before" (Frank Loesser wrote it for Guys and Dolls). Who is playing the piano? I know I've heard that rendition, but I can't place it. Thanks.
Im not sure, that was a royalty free song in imovie. The song in the neon sign looking intro was the beginning of one of my recordings. Besides golf my other passion is writing and recording music
@@jaimegylanpga8753, interesting. I'm not so much for writing music (done a little), but playing (piano and keyboards) and recording is another hobby. We should talk about it sometime.
@@davetutelman for sure! You can see part of my home studio in the background of a couple shots in the video
@@jaimegylanpga8753, I see a piano, an electronic keyboard, a bunch of guitars, and something very out of focus that could be a banjo. (Except for the guitars, I play them as well. My guitar and sax are for my son when he comes to visit.)
Fun fact. That is not actually how to determine toe hang. Look it up.
There should be some conclusive evidence that the human body is best suited for a specific degree… I’m betting it’s 45
try a robot..
A robot would swing each the same way, unless the connection allows Shaft Rotation. Only then would the amount of Toe Flow/Hang, or lack of this in a Face Balanced Putter have their effect.
Difficult to understand what you’re saying. You’re mixing all up and confusing
I WAS MORE EXPECTING ABOUT THESE TESTS THAT THE GOLFER WHO HAVE A STRAIGHT BACK AND TRUE NATURAL MOTION WOULD SHOW HOW IS HE PERFORMING WITH A TRUE BALANCE PUTTER, WITH THE HANG TOE SLIGHTLY AND THE HANG TOE FULLY. THE 2ND GOLFER WHO HAVE A NATUREL SLIGHT ARC IN HIS MOTION, TO DO THE SAME TESTS WITH ALL THE PUTTERS, AND FINALLY, A 3RD GOLFER HAVING NATURALLY A PRONOUCE ARC IN HIS NATURAL STROKE, TO DO THE SAME TEST WITH THE 3 PUTTERS. ALL THIS WOULD SHOW IF FOR EXEMPLETHE 1ST GOLFER HAVING A STRAIGHT BACK AND FOTH MOTION WOULD INDEED SUCEED BETTER WITH THE BALANCE FACE PUTTER. SAME THING FOR GOLFER 2ND AND 3RD, THEY SHOULD PERFORM BETTER WITH THE PROPER HANG TOE ACCORDING TO THEIR RESPECTIVE MOTIONS. THE WAY IT IS EXPLAIN NOW, I THINK PROOVED NOTHING TO NOBODY BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHO DID WHAT...M.T.