Dead Poets Society Analysis | The Death of Neil Perry
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- Опубликовано: 19 май 2024
- An analysis of the film Dead Poets Society, starring Robin Williams, focusing on the character of Neil Perry and his death in the film. One of the first video essays I ever made, reuploaded with better audio quality and quiter music although, unfortunately, still the janky editing from the original video.
My Little Thought Tree is my channel for drawing out the deeper meaning and emotion in film, TV, and the world at large through relaxed, analytical video essays. I am a professional counsellor and often draw on my psychology and therapy background to better understand characters, themes, and emotion in fiction. I upload every Saturday and occasionally on Tuesdays, if I'm feeling productive.
Dead Poet Society | Opening Scene Analysis - • Dead Poets Society | A...
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This movie kills me because Neil is so full of life. He’s so lovely and he loves his friends and he is grace and love incarnate with a beautiful playful streak. He’s passionate and when all of that is stripped from him, there’s nothing left.
Yes to all of this.
Agreed. It makes us uncomfortable. Makes us realize it's all too real. People can be like this. The vivaciousness in youth can't often always survive the cruelty of those who run the world. It makes grapple with the bullshit of society. We hate it, 'cuz it invites us to dissect the realest of shit. The power dynamics of capitalism.
Sorry to disagree but if he was full of life he wouldn't have taken his own life.
@@bearifiablepau2095 Have you ever known anyone who has committed suicide? If you had, your answer might be different. People commit suicide for many reasons that are individual to them, but all have one thing in common. They do it TO END THE PAIN.
One could even make the argument that Neil’s father killed him before Neil ever touched that gun. By snuffing out his light, his spirit, the very essence of Neil was already gone. I disagree with you, Neil was full of life, love, and passion. I imagine it felt like having your soul ripped out against your will. In that case, you’re already dead.
Hi @@xhante_. Thank you for your post. I find it interesting. I do not think it contradicts my own.
I understand this is a dark and sensitive topic. A person that commits (or attempts to commit) suicide has to find himself in a dark place. That doesn't mean there's no solution. The dark place implies they see no solution or they don't want to see a solution which is arguably egoic: we don't give ourselves life then it's not up to use to end it.
Where I respectfully disagree with you is in this idea that he was full of life and love. A person full of life and love will not snatch it away.
In any case, if there is life, there is hope. And we always have hope in the Lord Jesus Christ which himself is life. - John 14:6 And in that life there is light and love everlasting. - John 3:16, 1 John 4:18,19
Good day. Much love.
You missed the open windows significance . Remember the story neil narrates in the cave. About how the old lady sees the madman outside her window. He opens the window to let the madman in.
Great point!
i never thought about it that way... thanks for the insight
marvelous comment right hea
Good observation
Wow 👍
I don't think Neil's dad actually did ever see him as a real person, not even after his suicide. His dad wasn't crying for "Neil, Neil," he was calling out for "my son, my son." The bastard didn't give two shits about Neil and who he really was; he only cared about him insofar as he was his son.
Neil is not his son in his father's eyes, but a possession-a status symbol. He cares only that Neil increases that status and image of the family.
@@Skinfaxi Technically true, but very cynical. The romantic part of me wants to believe there is something more to us than the Selfish Gene.
@@Skinfaxi I was referring to Richard Dawkins' "selfish gene" hypothesis, which essentially states that humans (and all other creatures) are nothing more than vehicles for the propagation of their genes. It's a solid argument, but as I said, I find it quite unromantic.
If you thought that all Neil's dad wanted was for his son to be successful, then you completely missed the point of that entire storyline. Neil's dad wanted Neil to be what HE wanted him to be. He wanted Neil to be successful in doing what HE wanted him to do. Not only is this outrageously selfish, but it is highly likely to backfire. This is evidenced by the fact that Neil killed himself(!), thereby even destroying those precious genes.
@@Skinfaxi Everything that Neil's dad did or said just screamed out "vicarious living" to me. (I don't believe there was any malice at all.) I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point. And, as far as Neil being stupid and dramatic and grossly overreacting - that just sounds to me like a kid. You have to account for kids behaving that way (although, of course, most kids thankfully won't take it that far) and treat them accordingly. I'm NOT saying you should cater to their every whim, but if you take an authoritarian approach to parenting, it will almost certainly not end well for anyone involved.
@@brianthom6798 I agree with you. As someone who lives with a parent like that, they don't care about your success, they care about theirs. What they see as successful. Its child abuse to not allow your kids a voice. Its demeaning and dehumanising. He wasn't acting like a kid or overreacting. As someone that has been through the same I can assure everyone here that he was not overreacting.
No one here has a right to state he was overreacting. Only he does.
Fathers position their sons to either stand on their shoulders, or under their feet.
My father was a lot like Neil’s. The first time I saw this film was with my dad. We watched it, and then he gave a brief lecture afterward about the selfishness of suicide. The irony was completely lost on him.
damn...
It's unfortunate that was his takeaway.
My father is emotionally and verbally abusive towards me. He's edgy and defensive when he's not. He's a pastor on southern Ohio. The irony is that this past Sunday he talked about being lost in the wilderness like John the Baptist, and about how we're all 'lost in the wilderness' in some way. Some of us are lost in the confusion of medical red tape, some lost in mental health disorders. And then he said "some are lost in the wilderness of having treated somebody badly, and don't know how to fix it'.
I wanted to scream at him "THAT"S YOU, YOU DUMBASS!"
I didn't, because I didn't want to cause a stir during the recorded service. I left the sanctuary and cried.
I don't think he gets it, and it's sad. He helps people with their problems but can't see that his own family is dysfuctional. My mother has remained complacent throughout his rants, and even taken his side on occasions. When she's alone with me, she's gentle and understanding.
@@gaamatsu4dewin As a Christian I’m shocked that’s how ur dad is like especially since he’s a pastor. It’s the opposite for me, my mom is abusive towards me, but my pastor dad wants to get me out of it, but idk how to. But I rlly hope and pray that ur dad will come to his senses and that he can make u feel valuable. I rlly hope that God can get u out of this. I just hate how parents think because they’re parents they get to treat there kids like their robots. My mom hates it when I cry & show my emotions, & now I’m just a very emotional person who literally breaks down at the most simplest things which sucks. She rlly makes me feel insecure about myself, & also makes me feel like I’ll never be loved because 1 day she told me how nobody will ever love me just because my room was messy for 1 day. It just rlly hurted me, and still does. I just wish blessings upon u, & that u will overcome this trial.
Edit: my dad & mom aren’t together. My hates my dad’s guts 💀 Although he’s the sweetest human being ever.
I’m sorry that you had that kind of parent.
@@gaamatsu4dewin I’m also a Christian but I don’t know why he could be a pastor if he’s like that
The slippers show his father preparing for the next morning. It’s a routine. To his father, nothing has changed. He’s just finally set in stone what will happen with his sons future
I think it also calls back to some of the lines right at the beginning of the film, about Todd having "big shoes to fill" in regards to his brother. For Neil, the big shoes are his father's, and he is being forced to follow in his footsteps rather than walking his own path. The slippers represent a future of trying to fill his fathers shoes, and probably never succeeding because Neil is not his father. The shoes/slippers are left there, empty, because Neil refuses that path by ending his life.
i was wondering why there was such a clear shot of it, as if it was putting emphasis on the notion
Yes! And I’m sure he takes the time to put them back on when the noise awakens him showing he isn’t in such a rush and cares about appearances. And also we know Neil is barefoot which further distances them
And it was still selfish of Neil's dad to still force his desires on him despite the fact that Neil is already being supported by his friends.. if Neil's fate is to be rewritten from both the novel and the original movie, Neil would have probably stood up to his dad and decided to stay in his school and at the same time work his own job to support himself
The mother’s hysterical “He’s alright” I just realized also indicates a lot- she probably told herself that a lot previous to this day. I’m sure it could also be a natural response uttered by a parent in that circumstance, but in this film I think it was a choice.
I agree. Though it is a very natural way to respond, it also has meaning within the film - she's always been in denial about so many things. Maybe not denial, but she knows the situation and she's not allowed to make decision or even offer much input. To cope with that reality, she's learned to pretend that everything will work out. It has to.
this part always makes me cry
it's such a moment of shock, grief, loss & pain
I saw the film years ago and this scene was horrible. But then, a year and a half ago, my own son died by suicide. And then I really understood this mother’s response. I spent a year in numb denial. “He’s alright.” I don’t know that it was a choice as much as my mind trying to protect me from a reality that is so harsh. So unbelievable.
Dee, I’m so sorry to hear that. Peace and blessings to you and your ongoing journey in grief and healing.
@@deekang6244 I'm sorry to hear that
I remember being destroyed when I saw this scene for the first time, and then Ethan Hawke' Character puking in the snow, it was so sad.
I think I was 14 when I first saw this film, and even though it's kind of tame now compared to other things I watched it really was one of the first things that emotionally destroyed me in a film.
@@michaelvessel4604 I watched the film a couple months ago for the first time and it literally destroyed me it's the type of film that crosses ur mind at random times and u feel tha wave of sadness all over again( I have been experiencing this every single day for the last couple of months like random things remind me of this movie and I just get..sad idk, the film, especially neils death really smacked me in the face and idk why lmao)
For me it was different. I had the same problems as those people and have also thought about suicide frequently. It comforted me. Made me feel like I'm not the only one with awful life.
Ethan Hawke did that scene in one take. It was starting to snow too hard to do it more than once, so he had to get it right the first time.
it broke me when he died:( I cried
The actors are all top class. The dad is such a hard character to play, especially when the actor is not like that in real life.
I didn't get into That 70s Show for years because I hated him (the character) from this film. He does such a great job as an actor portraying the heartless bastard in this film.
I had to keep remembering that the actor who played the father most likely isn't actually a terrible person.
Idk man red Forman calls his son dumbass multiple times a day
I could never watch That 70s Show because I could only see the actor as Neil's father and he made me hate the character so much.
It's more sad because his father does love him and desires for Neil to have the best life possible, he believes he is doing what is best for Neil, but the tragedy is the misunderstanding between his father's cultural upbringing and Neil's hopes. They both want something different and it can't be reconciled.
Another thought on this. Did Neil's dad see him as a person upon his death? Notice when he finds him, it's not his name that he repeats it's "my son". Neil was still defined not only by his relationship to his father but in the possessive sense. Perhaps an over-analysis but a point that struck me only now.
I thought of it as if he only sees neil as his posession during the movie and realizes only when he's already dead that it his his SON(!!!).
(Emphasis on son more than on my son. I like your viewpoint as well. Always good to see it from another perspective )
I feel the same way!
In my opinion I think Neil’s dad just saw his son as an extension of himself. He didn’t consider his son to be a separate individual but as his legacy and he needed his son to “not embarrass him” by pursing his own identity and career.
His dad seemed very Narcissistic in his treatment of his wife and son.
I agree completely. There's only his wife present, it's so weird to call out "my son" into the air, he's not calling for Neil, he complains about losing his thing
I think that there is another way of looking at the lines of dialogue there.
If you think back to the scene where the play ends, the only person not applauding is Mr. Perry. Any well adjusted parent would be cheering and saying "that's my son".
I feel like this means that Mr. Perry *did* appreciate Neil's performance but was unequipped to process what he perceived if as defiance from Neil and he is trying, too late, to cheer for Neil perhaps as a plea to undo the tragedy of the suicide.
his hand behind the desk reminds me a lot of drowning. He drowned behind his dads ambitions (his desk) but only a hand reaching out to the surface, a last act of himself. Pointing to the gun on the floor, as if he shot himself in an desperate act to be himself before fully going under.
Great catch there! It is a nice detail (symbolically of course)
not to spoil the mood but well personally I felt like, oddly enough, the return from the first meeting looked like the heigh-ho snow white scene while neil’s death scene looked like the scene when snow temporarily died due to the apple
Now that I read that, I think there is a lot of nautical symbolism going on in this movie. Obvious one: Mr.K. referring to himself and being referred to as the Captain (who, in the poem, is already dead btw, and his soldier calling out for him, so tragically reversed roles!)
Then there's the last scene with the boys standing on deck and a tune much resembling the one of a curfew ceremony to the captain is playing.
Also, the earlier scene when he asks the boys to go up on his desk seems like him having them go up on the lookout...
Mr. keating really wants them set off to new countries of free thinking, of reading, writing and perceiving poetry in everyday life.
In the final scene there were boys who were not part of the core fellowship and society who also rose to support Mr. Keating. This showed that there were more in that class other than the 6 we get to know who were inspired and "heard" his lessons. Maybe other stories within those boys just as profound as the one told in the movie.
Beautiful!
It also shows that sometimes teachers as passionate as Mr. Keating cannot reach all students as not all students stood.
@@sfs1167 some were not brave enough, some maybe agreed with the Dean. All different stories, a good lesson in itself.
So true
Yes, and Cameron takes himself out of the group by not standing on his desk. Originally, he was going to, but the actor told the director that it would have been out of character, and the director agreed.
Well if you want to dig on the shot of the shoes.
They're left unfulfilled. Symbolically it's the signifier that he will never fill his father's shoes. He will never follow in his footsteps. He's not going to do what his dad wants him to do.
It's an old metaphor for taking on the same job or roll your father did.
"Following their footsteps. You've got a big pair of shoes to fill son."
I always thought of it as a sneek peek of the father being sent to a military school as a kid as well, probably against his will too. So now he is doing the same to his son because thats what he understood on his childhood "growing up" meant.
I thought the image served to mix his 'orderliness' (oppressiveness) with 'going to bed' (being checked out). (They're house slippers, not shoes BTW.)
I thought also that it is more symbolism of his authority and power, he goes to bed having,"Put his foot down," on the theatrical "nonsense".
This is so freaking insightful. I was racking my brain trying to think of it but your interpretation really sticks with me. It makes perfect sense. Cheers.
You've just got your first subscriber darling. The rest have no idea what they're missing. Congratulations.
When my mom saw the movie - she is quite an authoritarian, but thank God she no longer runs MY life - she said, "The teacher had no right to mess with the minds of those young vulnerable kids, putting ideas into their heads prematurely, before they were ready. This is what you get when you do that - a student kills himself. Keating knew what would come out of the confronration between Neil and his father, but encouraged Neil anyway. And now Keating will have to live with this burden for the rest of his life. These students were under age. He should've just focused on literature." I was speechless 🤦♀️ is this what controlling parents take away from this film?? That's sad.
That’s a very depressing take
Yes. That's what they take away from it.
In the immortal words of Principal Skinner: "Am I so out of touch? No. It's the children who are wrong."
I know it sounds bitter, but in a way- just somehow, she is right. I know what Mr Keating did was beautiful; he shows them what it means to think free and live, to shows them what real passion means and take them out from the rigor mortis. But i cant help but thinking a little bit like your mother; i mean what he was expecting? Actually i love dreamers, but in this show he somehow give them a knife in their hands by showing them what it means to dream. But yea i know, actually dreaming doesnt mean anything else than this and its beautiful as it is.. (sry for bad english:D)
@@24601InspectorJavert that made me laugh then cry
What I always liked about the scene was that it shows how impulsive of a decision suicide can be. Niel didn't have some grand plan, didn't get his affairs in order, didn't even leave a note. He just does it.
In a sense, his suicide was a note. A note to his father. I feel his father could not read the note. He never could've understood the writing on Neil, and even the note gave no idea off. In a sense, Neil's dad was illiterate to his son, showing more the separation in their relationship.
His one and only act of rebellion was destroying his true self.
@@bryleighjones7730this is one of the most poetically, tragically sad things i have today... Thanks
@@margrittaertl312 that is so kind, thank you. This movie means so, so much to me. I probably analyze it too much lol...
i think the place that Neil dies is really important as well. he dies behind a desk, which symbolizes a monotonous, unfulfilling job that won't bring him any real joy. he doesn't want to be stuck behind a desk for the rest of his life. he doesn't want to follow in his father's footsteps. he has seen what that desk has done to his father, and he does not want that life. so he dies behind it. he frees himself from the desk that is chaining him to a life of misery. he dies behind his dad's hopes and dreams for him. he has literally killed his dad's future for him. and in doing so, he had to kill himself.
Which raises another point in that Neil literally helped his friend destroy a desk set
Additionally that's the place where his father works in their home, and now he can never go to that space without thinking about Niel and his death
What breaks me is that Neil was so alive in the beginning. The way he tried to make Todd comfortable and the moment he tells him he has been selected for the role in the play. There is so much joy and life in his eyes and to see the same Neil kill himself in the end is truly heartbreaking.
Totally agree, you can't even imagine such a tragic thing will happen...
And the scene when he consoles Todd over his birthday present.
I was so heartbroken because he was so happy mere hours before I just wanted to cry
The thing that really unnerved me about Neil's death was Charlie's response to it. Charlie was always confident, but after Neil's passing we get to see a completely different side of him, like in the scene where the school is singing and Charlie from the start is just silent, just absorbing the agony. The actor playing him really did a great job portraying such intense vulnerability. The whole cast was top notch.
as someone who's gone through grief i reacted the exact same way charlie did, i was mostly in a prolonged state of numbness, like the news refused to sink in. to see that in the character when i watched the movie for the first time was shocking, in a good way, in a "oh, hey! i do that too!" relatable kind of way.
@@a11orney That's how I felt when my grandmother died.
Fr Charlie’s actor was insane. Sad I don’t get to see him in any more performances, but hell this one alone is enough
The moment that Neil started to confront his father and then immediately sat down made me dread what was coming next. It was one of the saddest moments in the film for me, because seeing a teenager who is supppsed to be full of life, completely defeated, is heartbreaking. It is even more so because we see it all around us. There are so many teenage kids, including me, who already believe they're failures and they have nothing to live for. It is truly sad to see another child being suppressed by society, especially in a relatively old movie, because it reminds you that everything is still the same.
I know you commented this a while ago but I really hope you are ok now. It’s heartbreaking seeing your pain in others as well so I understand. You are so strong for still being here. If you have someone in your life who helps you and makes it better - a Mr Keating, let’s say - you need to become that person so that one day you can help your past self to heal as well as other people like you right now - and if you don’t this applies as well. Chances are you’ve impacted people more than they’ve told you. People don’t tend to tell each other those things. So you need to hold on. Take it from someone who did. You may not know why now, but one day you will find out why the world needs you
Honey if you can phrase yourself like that you're everything but a failure. My mother is 56 years old and she wouldn't even be able to read your beautiful comment because she's not open enough nor smart enough to learn English because it isn't her language. Being that closed off is a failure. Teaching yourself how to read, how to communicate, how to watch movies how to observe people, to allow yourself to be inspired, to fully experience the world around you, to not dismiss something because it's "too emotional" and choose to face it and analyze it and learn from it, THAT'S A TRIUMPH. And you win. And I win. And all of us who can be described as Neil's extensions are the ones who matter. We change things. You change things. You definitely changed my perspective with your brilliant comment. Thank you for being so open, you're going somewhere great I promise. Stay strong and listen to the right voices.
@@weasley2o13 I just wanted to thank you for this comment. I'm often down on myself about a lot of things I can't change, but this made me see that I do, maybe, have some admirable qualities. I know people in my life who would never spend time watching the actual movie "The Dead Poets Society" much less a video essay going into the minutiae of the plot and characters! So I can at least call myself a curious person with an open mind. I greatly appreciate your helpful shifting of my own perspective. You're a very motivating presence.
Neil's father was a classic Narcissist. His son was just an extension of his own success and so his son's death was a blow to him, not the actual loss of a person he truly cared about. He lost someone to brag about and make him look good. Thus, blaming someone else for his son's death was his only logical path forward.
Oh please, he isn't a narcissist. People always try to throw these words so vaguely without ever bothering to look up the definition. A narcissist does not care about his or her offspring. Neil's father thought he knew what was best for his son. Every parent has their own flaws and I certainly think Neil's father was not a narcissist. He still cared for his son and he visions his future.
It doesn't make him selfish because he thought it was not logical for his son to pursue a career that is based from his passion.
@@dinaf.k5372 As the child of a narc parent, I've actually done some research on this: See Psychology today: The Real Effect of Narcissistic Parenting on Children
@@ecostarr I know what you mean. I have researched a bit on it and it's normal for every parent to be like this because they do care for their children and they want structure and a positive outlook for their children's future.
@@dinaf.k5372 It's does make him selfish, actually
and he is quite close to a narcissist. Close enough someone can make the argument he is
"thank you boys, thank you."
translation: my job is done.
I’m so heartbroken that Robin Williams ultimately took his own life. He is irreplaceable
Do some research on why he did it ,it will help you , it was a merciful act for himself.i know what it's like to experience extraordinary pain and suffering.
Total respect to you .
He had Lewy body dementia. He was in incredible pain everyday and he never let it show. He had been to doctors and they didn’t help. So he killed himself
I think the shadows/silhouettes also represent how Neil (the true Neil) is invisible to his family. In the scene that just preceded it, his father abused him while his mother neglected him. There was no space for him to actually show them who he was and feel affirmed by it. Even when his dad says, "Tell me what you feel," its tone is much less a question and much more a threat, as if daring him to defy him again with feelings that are different from his own in the matter. Meanwhile, when Neil later says, "I was good. I was really good," his mom doesn't acknowledge this. While I think some physical or emotional comfort in general would have been critical at this moment, I think what he needed most was her to tell him, "I know. I know you were good." Some words to allow him to believe that someone in his family knows him, even if they can't stand up for him. But he doesn't get this, and he can't see a hopeful future anymore, and his life ends tragically.
Yeah, that does make it even more tragic. His mom can't bring herself to contradict her husband one iota, so she becomes complicit. She could have changed the situation with some acknowledgement of Neil's feelings. But she couldn't. So she, as much as the father, sealed Neil's fate.
Its also significant that he said "I was good" because you can tell that Neil probably was a good son in that he would always do the things his parents wanted and never, until now, had defied them.
@@RobDeManc I didn't think about that angle. That's a really good point too. Like it's the one comfort he was hoping to earn for all his performed "goodness" and he couldn't even hold onto it.
I thought of it as that Neil had already died, and it was symbolic of his spectre. Once his father berated him for the final time, he is primarily seen as a silhouette or a shadow. The only shots where he is physically shown, are when he is interacting with his crown, or when he takes his own life. He is naked, vulnerable, and secluded in these scenes, and its as if his spirit and morale had already left him, especially so, after he had left his ‘ambitions’ behind with his crown at the open window. He is letting the ‘madman’ through the window, as alluded to in the earlier meetings of the Dead Poets Society; his dreams had ended, and so will what makes life worth living.
I loved this movie when I first saw it in high school but when I watched it after becoming involved in crisis intervention (specifically with suicide intervention via ASIST) I was struck by how thorough Neil's journey to suicide really is. There are invitations he puts out, the reactions by his peers and his mentor both are well meaning but ultimately fail to see that there is this side to Neil where suicide may be something he's considering. If you look back through the film and watch it strictly from the perspective of suicide, there are many instances where one could effectively stage an intervention. Sadly, and tragically, it's only after it's far too late that anyone really gets what's at stake.
To me, that's the haunting realization that Mr. Perry has when he finds his son. He realizes too late that he has contributed to making Neil feel trapped in an unhappy life. Rather than reflect on this and grow, he chooses (or perhaps his grief gives way too easily to denial) to push any blame away from himself and onto others.
In the last 8 years of my work I've talked to hundreds of people who were desperately suicidal, and simply talking with them free of judgment and showing empathy to them often can get them through those times safely. But it has to be genuine and you, as a helper, must be brave enough to ask.
Could you elaborate on the first paragraph? I'm just watching it for the second time and can't really see many signs, even though I'm looking this time.
"There are invitations he puts out"
Such as?
@@Augalv I'd have to watch the film again to be specific.
As someone who has reached out to suicide intervention, I want to thank you. I'm in a much better place now, but someone like you was there for me at my lowest, and I'll never forget it.
@@HelgatwbThank you for reaching out for help when you needed it. It's not easy to do and I'm very happy that you're with us.
When I first watched the film, I felt there was some coding, and that acting was also hinting at Neil’s sexuality. I haven’t rewatched the movie in a while and I don’t know if that coding is really there, but to me it gave the moment an extra layer of what the father’s rejection meant
i read something similar, that it was a metaphor for that
same but i also am queer so maybe thats why?
@@Incurtus Oh me too, so I know I might be projecting a bit
i have always always thought neil and todd were queer coded
i'm also queer, and i always thought Neil and Todd were queer coded on like, the first interaction
dude, this video struck me hard. as a person who experience what neil went through and I'm still cowering over my father. 2 more years until medical school is over. I hope my dream is still there. waiting for me. waiting for the actor to start the play.
If it's still a dream you have, then it's still there. I wish you the very best of luck
@@mylittlethoughttree thank you for the support my guy
From a stranger...just wishing you the best.
Sending you much love, I hope things get better for you
Where do you live? don’t know if you’ll see this, but my brother is an actor in New York. He can be found on IMDB. His name is Adam Dulin-Tavares. If you want, I can put you in touch with him. He can help you get your foot in the door.
Isn’t that the same actor who plays Wilson in House?
So you have an actor playing a man wanting to be an actor and his dad wants him to be a doctor...
...Who then goes on acting as a doctor in a show.
Kurtwood Smith, who plays the father in DPS, also appeared on an episode of House as the very supportive father of a musical prodigy, who makes a decision that robs his son of his dreams, but also saves his life. A nice inversion of his Dead Poets role. I don't think he and Robert Sean Leonard had any scenes together in the episode though.
I also like how they made a poster of him dressed as Puck in DPS as a young Wilson starring in an adult movie. Or was it a DVD cover and not a poster? Either way, I always loved that little tie-in.
@@gorgarath It was a full on adult movie, they begin with showing a clip of Wilson in Puck-esque costuming frolicking through the trees before cutting to a later shot... showing that they switched the actor for Wilson's role in the film for a more hunky porn-star type who assumedly proceeds to have sex with the forest nymph, leading to his humiliation when House finds it.
Word to your father
Yes, and the other role I saw him in was Claudio in "Much ado about nothing" - so the actor who played a kid wanting to play Shakespeare instead of becoming a doctor then moves on to play both Shakespeare AND a doctor.
I have never seen this movie and stumbled upon this, but from the video I get the sense that there is an almost religious connotation here. Maybe I am a bit cynical,but him naked,the crown of thorns on his head dying for the father. For his ideals but because of the father's ideals, if that makes sense. He sacrifices him self after a night of fun(the last supper) and leaves a mark on his group. In the living room there is no chair for the father because he always stands above them,but maybe there is no chair for Neil, he has no place here,or in this last sequence, he is already gone or not physical. Thats why we dont see him dead. Maybe I have taken this too far. The mother role is passive,she almost knows his faith but is just there to mourn,like Mary. Maybe I offended someone,sorry.
I definitely agree with you, and you need not worry about offending. The main setting of the movie is essentially a Protestant prep school, so I think you are right on the ball.
I like your ideas and I absolutely suggest watching this movie. Even if you know the ending now, it is a masterpiece
Good points. I really love this movie, but I feel as though Neil's death was somewhat out of the blue. It did not seem in character with the young man we get to know in the movie.
There’s definitely religious connotations
Definitely, this movie belongs to my generation (X). We definitely saw a religious connotation to it at the time. Sacrificial lamb to his dad’s ambitions.
The adults in the film are in real life baby boomers, and I believe they are teaching the next generation, X, a different way of making life choices. One could argue we have nearly left duty behind at this point in favor of passion with the millennials, and we are starting to see a course correction with Gen Z, as they grapple with finding a balance between pursuing passion and duty to family, community and world. This is oversimplified of course.
The crown can also be related to a biblical meaning with the Crown of Thorns. Neil didn’t see it as a suicide because he was already dead inside. It wasn’t a sacrifice because nothing would come of it, but he’s the prodigal son who died. Could also be a symbol of how his dad expects him to be perfect and be a doctor especially which kind of falls into the savior aspect. Just a thought.
I hate to quibble with you, again. I raised this point before and I do not debate that Neil's death is sad but that passage of the dead poets does not apply to him. Neil did discover what it is to have truly lived. All of his friends, the fellow dead poets, knew that too and as much is why they stood on their desks to thank Keating. They were confirming in their own experience with Mr. Keating what was also Neil's experience. Neil lived his dream even if only for a brief time which is a victory considering that many live their whole lives without truly living, seizing the day. This is the message of Dead Poets Society. It is not that seizing the day will necessarily work in seizing the future. It is that seizing the day, even if merely the one of them, is what it is to be alive.
Definitely. Part of the feeling of being suicidal is that he probably feels that he's already lived all his good days and his days of feeling alive and feeling passion are in the past. He has lived, but he feels like that's over. He doesn't see hope or joy or love or the things Keating said were what we live for in his planned out future - so he ends his life before it's over.
@@leora8278 And I think he was wrong about that last part. This is why it is still a tragedy Neil killed himself. He could have either realized he loved medicine, or, pursued theater after medical school, or (gasp), stood up to his father and not gone to medical school. I went to military school and it does not equal you can not do what you want with the rest of your life. It is hard to see that as an adolescent, though, and apparently Neil saw no way out.
Exactly.
@@tristramcoffin926 yeah he was so beaten down, and so obedient that he didn’t see he did have a choice. He just didn't see a way out without having his parent’s love and support, which is usually everything to a child, teen and young adult because that support is often necessary to make it in life.
However...I think Neil was so loving and so very ‘good’ that he didn’t see that as a choice at all. Him destroying himself WAS being obedient to his father as that is what his father seemingly wanted. He saw suicide as a way out of that restriction (freedom) AND giving his dad what he wanted. (For Neil not to exist). Neil was essentially doing what his father was demanding if him.
@@tristramcoffin926 I know what you mean because I'm trying to do the same, but I also understand Neil. I have my own passions and I live for them, and I truly feel love for them and when you feel something so hard, you want to live that life and no other, not to wait... start living it. And considering he was a teenager, he just felt so much and didn't see other way.
The fact that Robin Williams himself died by suicide makes movie even more tragic.
OPPOSING VIEWPOINT: Even while holding his dead child, Neil's father *never learned*. He was crying out about his loss of property:" MY SON! MY SON!" He does not use his name, he cries out as though he as lost something he *owns*. Neil's father might have well have cried out: MY FUTURE! MY ASPIRATIONS! MY DESTINY FOR GREATNESS!
That is how narcissists view their children: property they own. Narcissists believe they own their children's lives, their children's feelings, their children's emotions, and their children's hopes and dreams are ALL considered property they "own" and they genuinely believe this.
I agree that this describes the father 100% and pray other people trapped by such parents can escape. And have happy lives.
This film, along with an amazing 12th grade English teacher, made me want to be an English teacher. I'm now 50 and an professor in a different field. I see Keating's flaws more clearly now but also what he did right. I see how the core of what I loved about him and his pedagogy exists in me, although expressed in my own particular way. In retrospect, I see aspects of the film of overly sentimental, bordering on trite. But it still made tears well up watching this analysis. So, sentimentality be damned. It moves me.
What flaws have grown more clear to you?
@@davie4053 Teachers like Keating are seductors, they show you things is an attractive way and they are inspirational, like he was for the dps boys, but a teacher can’t be only a seductor, he has to guide his students and help them to grow and do their best. Keating could have helped Neil more if he had investigated the problem further, he himself when Neil dies bursts into tears, I think he also feels guilty because he could have saved him
@@angeladimaggio2192 I don't understand. He did give them some growth in a way
@@dinaf.k5372 he shows them the beauty of poetry and inspires Neil to act, these are obviously good traits, but he could have helped Neil more. Mr Keating is a good man and teacher, bus is imperfects as all people are and he did some errors, for example he could have talked with Neil’s father
and also, keating mustve realised that Neil was Lying about telling his father about his dreams and that he would perform in the play. He must have realised the boy lied and he was taking a huge risk and Keating had contributed tona dangerous situation fpr Neil
The film is more about control and conformity. It's symbolic of your being repressed and being made to do what others tell you and not making waves. When the one character pursues the girl he is finding himself. He falls in love with her and it defies the convention of doing what he must in favor of following his emotions. The same with the actor. In a much more tragic example he chooses death over control. His father only wants what's best for him but refuses to see that which is best for him might not align with what helps him the most. In the end robin williams character awakens some of the boys and shows them that life and expressions of life are to be enjoyed. That there is a sense of duty but being dutiful to yourself also matters. They emulate him and his youth because they admire his free spirit and in the final act of solidarity the show him that they truly learned from him.
Your childhood may not have had such control, but the father figure is very indicative of he close minded parent not willing to listen to their child. As a parent it can be hard to have open discourse with your kid. Sometimes they are ashamed or embarrassed. Sometimes you don't want to hear those hard truths about your kid. It builds a wall between the authoritative adult and the maturing child. The fathers inability to see he impact forcing the choices on his son had come to conclusion when he cries out and embraces him. All he can see is the path to success and that he wants his son to have it easier than he did. He however didn't take his sons wishes into consideration and micromanaged everything to ensure success. It backfired obviously but in that moment you realize that the father did love his son even though he acted the way he did.
Very nice! 👍
I disagree. The father did not love his son at all. Even while holding his dead child, he had contempt for him. His tears are anger and frustration. He is only mourning the loss of who he wanted the boy to be. The death encouraged him to double down on his manipulative qualities and to justify his actions in getting the teacher fired. In an odd way, he felt he had “won”. It is only the last scene (oh captain my captain) that showed us, the audience, that he and the school didn’t. The kids were enlightened not because of their parents, the school, and the other kids but despite them.
@@sirenachantal471 Dawg, he loved his son by most people's definition. You can be a bad parent while still loving your child.
I think choosing death was actually choosing control.
@@jasonkonold6780 while I agree he likely loved Neil in his own (toxic) way, it's an interpretation. I can see the argument made to him not loving his son (like even when he's crying he is reiterating "My son, my boy" without utterance of Neil's name. Almost as if he doesn't see Neil as his own person). Like I said, do I think he loved his son, yeas, in his own way. Do I think he loved his son in the right ways, and enough, no, I don't.
I think the removal of slippers is more the symbol than the slippers themselves. I think it represents the moment Neil's father becomes truly bare, in sleep or in dreams. I think it's meant to parallel how it's only in this moment they're the same, vulnerable.
That's an interpretation no one's commented here or on the original upload before. I really like that take, thankyou
Will you marry me? Please...?
I was really thinking about Todd after Neil’s death. I had a friend who almost committed suicide. I talked her out of it. It was horrible. The feeling of being that one thread that’s keeping someone alive is the worst emotional pain a human can experience that’s not being done to themselves. I’ve also been suicidal and I’m glad to be standing here today, but I think if I had seen this before my consideration of ending my own life, it would’ve been a lot easier for me. I’m totally fine now but that was what I was feeling around a year ago.
I am so sorry about all of this. I too had a friend who was suicidal and I know exactly how it feels to be the single thing keeping another person alive. The weight and responsibility is unmeasurable and painful to experience. I think that’s part of the reason Neil’s death affects me so much- I almost feel like like I’m in Todd’s shoes even though my friend got through it. I am so glad you are still here with us and and you feel better now, it takes immense strength 💜
I'm so proud of you. We're strong soul sister.
"My shoes are too tight, but it doesn't matter, because I have forgotten how to dance" -Londo Molari
Something I find interesting is that when Mr. Keating left him the Dead Poet's book it's almost like he was living his glory days vicariously through the boys. Keating, like Neil's father, sees himself in Neil and puts his hopes for the future into the boy's hands. Only he does this in a positive way - by encouraging them to think for themselves. In a way he teaches the boys to follow in his footsteps, which is what Neil's father was doing - he just doesn't need to do that by forcing them into a box. They follow him by taking the key so to speak and opening the doors of possibility through refusing to conform.
Oh wow, what an amazing antithesis! In this regard, I also noticed that during the film Keating keeps having the boys follow him while he whistles, like in the Pied Piper of Hamelin... So, he does not need to order them to follow him. He builds trust and loyalty by being a mentor and father figure.
It's kind of poetic how by killing himself, he also strips away the dad's life too. Because his dad was already willing to leave his own life to live vicariously through his son. But his son reminded him of his mortality, how you can't trade one soul for another, or at least, he wasn't willing to do that trade. The sad thing is, his father won't remember this as a lesson to keep for the rest of his life, he treats it as a way to blame Mr Keating for what he thought he did to his son. When you're trapped in a cage for all of your life, you don't appreciate being out of it until you actually get out of it. When he got back into his cage, he didn't want to keep being miserable inside it, he didn't find a reason to move on. As Keating said, what you think you know can be completely different when seen from another perspective
It’s a good set detail that the mother is dwarfed by her chair. She’s in an environment built to dominate her, and she’s lost in it. The way she plays it, she really is grieved to see her son hurting, she just doesn’t feel big enough to challenge the law of the house, which is that he’s lucky.
Oh, and regarding the slippers - I see it as a sign of his father’s control. He mentions repeatedly that he grew up with fewer avenues open to him than Neil, and that he made ‘a great many sacrifices’ to send him to Welton; all of this suggests a man who’s not a domineering father while indulging himself, so much as a man who’s lived a life involving tremendous *self*-control, whose so caught up in that that he forgets that Neil isn’t an extension of himself. So the house is neat, everything looks perfect; the father doesn’t even lie down to sleep without putting his slippers together in perfect neat alignment. He lives like he’s in his own self-imposed military school.
So I’d say it was a way of showing us how hopeless Neil would feel - his father doesn’t let a slipper go astray, never mind a son - while also encouraging a bit of compassion for his father, who isn’t really enjoying the tyrannous power he wields because he’s hard on himself too. He’s not a sadist, just a man who doesn’t know how not to be joyless.
WW2 service might have had something to do with that, and/or the Great Depression.
It's also just the phrasing of "Whatever the reason". It implies inherently that the reason is of no concern to the questioner. It's very interesting how much truth there is in a well-written movie, because I'm sure the writers didn't explicitly research psychology when writing the film, but so much of it holds true to life.
When Neil is at home with his parents after the play, the feeling that I got from the various scenes that took place there is that his parents are all about appearances. Everything in the house has its place. Neil's pajamas and toiletries are even laid out neatly on his bed for him. Everything is about order and anything to the contrary is met with unyielding fury until obedience is established once again.
That looks like a WW2 veteran father (and perhaps mother as well), whose experience (inspection is possible at any moment!) really stuck with him.
I lost a classmate in freshman year of high school. She died in a horrible accident that could have been easily prevented. She was kind of the life of the class, really smart girl who liked helping others and was nice to everyone. I've always struggled to know if I could call myself her friend, but she definitely made me feel like she was. When she died, it was wrecking for us. We were 14/15 year olds, totally not ready or prepared for such a tragedy. I wrote a poem about that day, a thing I don't usually do because I'm a different type of writer but that was the best way to put down my feelings. I watched the movie the first time some months later, because many people had recommended it to me for years. It broke me. I started bawling when I saw the scene where Todd runs in the snow. It was so real. Also when they show the class and there's the empty desk in the middle, it hurt. Her desk was in the middle too. I consider this movie very personal to me and hold it dear to my heart
The gratitude I feel toward my parents for allowing me to pursue my dreams cannot be overstated. My parents never waivered in their support of my dreams though I know in my heart they feared I was making a huge mistake. My dad especially may have feared for my future but as mentioned in the video, he was never afforded the opportunity to be himself and pursue HIS dreams (like Neil) so rather than take his anger out on me and push me toward a life I did not want, he let me study theatre. My mother was exactly the same. And despite not achieving the success I dreamed of I shudder to think of what my life would have been like had I not been given such autonomy at such a young age. Perhaps a bit cliché but Dead Poets Society inspired me as an adolescent to go after what I wanted in life, which coincidentally was acting. I don't regret a moment I spent in those pursuits and thank god I had amazing support around me, most importantly my parents.
It's over Neil. I have the high ground.
😂
Lol
this is funny but also painful
You underestimate me father
@@sofiaangeline6677 ''Don't try it!'' Neil immediately picks up the gun and kills himself on the spot
This was one of my first ever videos and, I can't tell you just how long I've trying to get it reuploaded. The original had bad audio quality and really loud music. Due to setback after set back, issues with my laptop, copyright, and the editing, it's taken me over a year to get round to finally re-releasing it.
So the mic quality has improved, the music has been reduced but it still does have the slightly-janky editing and load of screenshots where copyright wasn't happy. If I went back and remade the entire video, I probably could have fixed that but then it would take even longer. This reupload is well overdue as it is, so this is the best I can offer. Hope you all enjoy it!
Also, the end screen of this video is out of date due to how long it takes to appeal copyright claims. I have since gained new patrons who also deserve a thankyou: Kenneth Housen, Justin Short, David Holman, Devin, David Kling, Darren Burdock-Latter, Samara Soucy.
Other DPS video - ruclips.net/video/R0L4DzeED48/видео.html
Patreon link - www.patreon.com/mylittlethoughttree
How does it feel to get noticed by the algorithm finally? Congrats on getting a bunch of subscribers!
It's greatly appreciated.
thanks for the re-upload, but i'm guilty of having suffered through the music while trying to hear you and playing games. love your videos, if I think about how the topics relate to me i get emotional, 'learn how to be my own therapist'.
The editing is fantastic! 👍
Wow I actually just finished the original video and now to see it how it was meant to be seen is amazing. I wanted to compliment you on your great editing, but I feel that your writing is just as deserving of praise, if not more so, since you were easily able to get all your points and emotional bits across in the original video with mostly screenshots and without the help of your spectacular editing. Good on you man. I hope to see more from you soon.
On the slippers: I think it symbolizes the father's continued adherence to normalcy. It shows that even as he has crushed his child's dreams and made a decision that will forever alter his life, it's still business as usual for him. Everything in it's proper place.
Perhaps Mr. Perry was a self made man who grew up poor and wanted to be a doctor but couldn't afford medical school, then eventually became successful in whatever field he did go into and now insists that Neil must go to med school and carry out his dream that is too late for him, or perhaps he was a lackluster student who didn't have the grades to do it whereas Neil has always been academically successful and has the intellectual capability to go to Harvard Medical School. Perhaps Mr. Perry applied to Harvard and was rejected. That's the impression I get when he talks about Neil having opportunities he never did and not letting him waste them.
Yeah, I think it's more like that than like Neil's father trying to live vicariously through him. I think he came from a lower class family (which Neil alludes to), and his father wants to make sure that he has financial stability in his future, which acting usually does not provide.
@@julietardos5044 I think it is living through him vicariously, but it's not just that Pops Perry doesn't want him to be an actor, but he has picked a specific career for Neil, that he's going to be a doctor. Not just that he choose something sensible or profitable, not an account, a stock broker, a contract law attorney, a hotel manager, an architect, but he must be a doctor and only a doctor. He'd obviously be less unhappy with one of those ambitions than actor, but Neil hasn't been offered a range of negotiable career options, but only the one. That's why I think Mr. Perry himself wanted to be a doctor and has pushed that thwarted dream onto Neil.
@@moonlily1 Could be.
Consider the impact of the Great Depression and WW2.
@@scottcharney1091 I would also think that there's something else going on with Neil that we don't know about if he killed himself because his father won't let him be an actor. Most people don't choose to end their life based on a singular event or issue.
It's really hard to have red Forman as a father
This comment is totally out of sync with the serious topic of the video, but it might be a funny skit to have Robert Sean Leonard and Topher Grace together and commiserating on how tough it was to share the same father(!) I've read that in real life RSL thinks very highly of Kurtwood Smith, and I would guess the same goes for Topher.
Beautiful breakdown. Beautiful film.
O'Captain! My Captain!! 💔💔💔😢😢😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Great movie. One of the few coming of age films that truly, and honestly, reflects the experience of being a young man, and trying to figure out what the hell youre doing here ... 😢
Gosh. How many people out there mourned for Neil?! How many “Neil’s” are out there now? Do they know we cry for them too?!!!
To me, the closeup on the dad's slippers signify a sense of finality to the night's events, and they are part of the sequence of closeups for the next few minutes. The closeups seem to contrast the things being taken off for both Dad and son. Dad goes to bed, takes off his slippers, and that's it. However when Neil takes off his clothing, the camera lingers even longer, we see the hands slowly coming off the coat in reluctance, Neil's shadows/silhouette, crown on and off one last time, his feet walking out of the doorway, etc. He is slowly removing and walking away from his life piece by piece. So for me the themes here are "taking off" as well as the "next step." Dad's next step is going to bed, while, as you essentially said, Neil's next step is going to die.
EDIT: I keep getting things out of order and finding more things lol! Also, Dad's feet leaving the slippers, but Neil's feet keep walking towards his end. Okay I think that's it....lol
Seems like you got it right.
Yes, I see it as an extension of the ritual, and it shows the control and discipline of the father - he adjusts the slippers so they're lined up just so, and then Neil is equally precise with his clothes: items folded nearly on the bed, etc.
Dad is just doing that because that's how he do. Whereas Neil is doing it because it's the last time and he is conciously shedding the layers. Savouring that moment of Puck after striping away the cage of a 'respectable son' his father has created
I always saw the close up of Neil's father's slippers as an image of his complete surrender to conformity, I would not be surprised if there was a mark on the carpet because he always puts them in exactly the same place in exactly the same way every time he goes to bed, that image is then compared to Neils who has refused it as an option for life.
I always saw the shot of the slippers as a direct reflection on how his dad deals with his own feelings. A tidy, orderly process of getting into bed and putting the slippers in the same spot as every other night says "Things are all fine, nothing is wrong" - supporting the idea that his dad represses his feelings instead of directly confronting them. Contrast that to Neil's final moments where literally everything is different than a "normal" nightly routine, which seems to expressing his desire to not follow that same path.
I always thought that the tidiness (slippers, folded clothes on the bed, etc.) could have indicated that his father was in the military? I feel like most military families instill this sense of tidiness and respect because it's what was instilled in training (Neil also address his father as "sir," which is usually something I notice in children with military fathers but I could be wrong and may not always be the case but idk just a thought). Also, this took place in the '50s, so it's possible he could have served in the war? Which could also add to his reasoning for wanting to live vicariously through Neil and him "not having the same opportunities" as he did?
I cried during the scene. Suicide has been a big part of my life and when I was a teen and my Dad basically thought nothing of me because I have always been me. I was never willing to bend to anyone’s opinion. Only my Mom could influence me but still not by much. But she got me. This movie made me feel extremely proud of my convictions and sense of self I kept. Now as I am in late middle age and I’ve been broken a few times, I am still me. This movie means a lot to me and to many others. O’Captain my Captain indeed. Thank you for this. 👏🏻
Thank you for sharing this
When I watch that scene, the heavy use of shadows feels to me like a reflection of Peter Pan. The boy that never grew up, stayed young forever. I always saw the film as saying that's who Neil is now; he'll always remain young to everyone else.
The dad's slippers by the bed: I think this represents his confidence with his decision about Neil. Straightening and precisely placing them by the bed should he need them - Because his life is orderly and disciplined, he's always prepared. Except he's not. It's about to be chaotic and he's not prepared for Neil's suicide despite all of the order he has maintained. I guess it's another example of one of the overriding themes that strict discipline will not prepare you for everything life will throw at you. Great job, BTW. I really enjoyed hearing your thoughts on this.
World War II really left a mark on him.
I've always thought that the slipper scene was to characterize Neil's dad as even more of a militarian. Seeing someone barefoot is intimate right? But we see him taking off slippers that are still severe looking. Like the material resembles leather. Even when he's wearing shoes that are supposed to be comfortable, he still chooses a pair that looks like dress shoes. So even when he's supposed to be relaxed, he's still has something suggesting power and authority.
The character was, if I remember the commentary track correctly, a WW2 veteran.
i still remember watching this in class and sobbing my eyes out, only for my teacher to call me and go over my last essay as tears and snot is streaming down my face
I just stumbled upon your channel last night and I’m loving it! It also made me realize I barely ever see therapists on RUclips; there needs to be more of us on here! From one therapist to another, I can’t wait to see your channel blow up 🙂
I don't see this a an analysis by a therapist--it is really more of a literary/character analysis. I appreciate the lack of therapy talk.
@@BY-bj6ic I think the person doing the analysis has mentioned being a therapist in one of their other videos because the person commenting says they're looking at the whole channel
my god. i didn't really cry during the the film, because I never really thought too deeply about it (partially cuz I didn't want to cry then, and I knew that I would), but man. This video sent me into tears. Amazing analysis
Thoughts on the slippers (10:52):
I think the scene is drawing parallels between Neil's preparation for suicide, and the parents preparation for sleep. I never really considered this before. I might not have at all, if you didn't ask for suggestions about those slippers, but... Yeah, this is tying back into the theme of dreaming that we've established, and that one fact actually makes me feel a lot better about Neil's Death.
See, I hate this movie. Despise it, for being SOOO GOOD for an hour and a half, and then (in my eyes) failing in the last quarter. I always saw Neil's suicide as surrender, as an odd rejection of Keating's teachings that seemed to sit at odds with the rest of the film, and left a bad taste in my mouth. I always felt like, if Neil had just tried to get through to his father, if he had told him how he felt, his father may have listened. Probably not completely, but I don't think he would have sent him off to military school. I feel like, if Neil had just explained that he had no intention of being a Doctor, that his father was wasting his money, and Neil's time, things would have been different. It seemed to me that his father loved him, and just went too far in thinking that he knew what was best for him (and your note that he was living vicariously through is son feels accurate). Or, even if Neil had just given the big impassioned speech to a dead wall, I could have accepted that. Then he could go to his room, and kill himself as a last act of defiance against his hard-hearted father. But, what happened instead always felt like surrender to me. (There's also this moment where he opens his window like he's about to run away, and... that would have been much more satisfying lol).
But, if we're going with the theme of dreaming, of following dreams, then... You could interpret Neil's death as him permanently returning to the dream. And, I think this is what they are trying to set up by drawing parallels between his parents going to bed, and him committing suicide. It's easy to miss, because it seems like it could just be showing that they're going to bed while he's not, just showing concurrent events in the best way they can. But, the way they keep cutting back and forth between them seems like a sort of Thematic Match Cut to me upon closer inspection. Both the parents, and Neil, are going to "sleep," the world of dreams.
You may actually have just solved my biggest issue with one of my least favorite movies that I also consider one of the best films ever made. lol
Ooh, missed it by that much.
Now that I'm seeing these recurring themes, they really do pervade this movie. Midsummer Night's Dream actually kind of explains the themes of the movie.
That's not "the shadow of his true self." That's Puck, the shadow. The character Neil is in his dreams.
The one feeling I had was anger. I hated Neil's father. He seemed absolutely cruel. This in turn made me think of my father. We are like strangers. More than anything I wanted, which is to say I want, him to take pride in who I am, not what he expects me to be. This is important. For all sons and fathers.
For years I couldn't understand stand why Neil did what he did. I thought he could do what most teens do, by which I mean rebel. It all seemed like a terrible and senseless tragedy.
Then I slowly looked at it from the perspective of Neil and his father only. If you start at the beginning of the film you can see the tension is already at the breaking point, when Neil's father tells him he cannot work on the school's paper. There is a very tense exchange between them.
And it made me think of my father. A couple of years before my mother died, she told me that my father resented me leaving the small town I grew up in, and moving to Chicago. That admission, however indirectly I recieved it, explained a lot. It was at that time he drew away from me.
I cannot be certain, but this may be a common story. How and when we let go of people we love says as much about our love for them as our other expressions of love. Why? Because, true love for someone must contain unconditional acceptance to be love.
Recall the line from Larkin's poem "This Be the Verse":
Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Your videos are amazing! They are so thoughtful and deep. Thank you.
Would you consider doing one on "The Chosen"? It's another very fine movie about a father and son. This time, however, it has a happier ending.
Thank you.
Thank you for sharing this with us
Howard Jones “What is Love” lyrics.
This movie really hit me, especially the last scene that got me really bawling.
In my opinion it showed that despite a loss of a friend, and no matter what obstacles they may face, they remained loyal to their professor, his teachings. And in a way they were loyal and stood by their beliefs and passion too.
I was so naive when I watched this the first time. When Neil's dad showed up at the play and saw Neil's performance, I thought his dad would see how good his son was and how much he loved acting and would come around and be proud and supportive. I was crushed when he wasn't.
that scene where Neil says " nothing , nothing" to his father when they're arguing, it was like all life n hope n dreams had been killed inside of him
In Sky Castle (kdrama), parents take on extreme measures to make sure their children stay on top so they could brag about them. They could say they were the "best parents" out there through their children's achievements. It's just bragging rights!
In my country, if you do a misdeed someone will say, "ganyan ka pala pinalaki ng magulang mo." (So, you were brought up that way by your parents.) It will reflect poorly on Neil's parents say if Neil chose acting as a profession instead of becoming a doctor because like most parents would say, "there is no money in art!" or "It's not practical."
But some people live and breathe art, and to cut them off to their source of life... Neil saw how bleak and restricting his future through his father's lenses (it was his father's future really, not his). He chose that night because he was high in the feeling of being himself (acting onstage). He was brave and alone and sad and it was his night...
One of the most impressive parts of this film imo, is I genuinely felt that Neils father loved him, he was controlling because he wanted nothing but the best for him, he just can’t imagine “the best” being anything other than the way he sees it. It’s actually heartbreaking because I don’t think Neils father ever wanted to hurt him.
I’ve had a few friends take their own lives, this video was the first one to really help me understand what they might have been going through in their final moments. Thank you so much sir, you have no idea how much this meant to me!
I’m sorry for your loss
As someone who has grown up and is still growing up in an abusive home, watching this... I can’t even call him a man, none the less a father, abuse his son and make him feel so alone and so desperate to just breathe that he had to take his own life...
also as a person who has tried to take her own life... I know exactly how he feels. In his last moments he just wanted someone to show him love. He wanted someone to tell him that he wasn’t alone and that his dreams matter. His father pushed that aside and tried to live the life he wanted through his son. Even after Neil died, his father HAD to find a way to push the blame off himself so he wouldn’t have to accept that fact that he killed his own son...
Thank you for sharing this
Do you have help? I hope you feel better than before
Two years later, I hope that you are doing better.
Actually, concerning the seating arrangements in the home... we don't see the chair, but it is obvious that there is a desk there (where his father puts his hat) with a portfolio and calendar visible. We know the chair is there because that is where Neil sits when he commits suicide. (It's the same room, not a separate study). So, there are really three chairs in the room but, one is a desk chair. That, actually, implies that his dad's normal seat is behind that desk. That configuration gives the visual impression of a boss and his employees, which I think is the better analogy to how Neil's father views the family dynamics. It is Neil's "job" to do what his father says. The fact that Neil's not doing his job as it was laid out for him as the dutiful son is baffling and infuriating for his father. He does not see life as a journey to happiness, it's a job that you succeed or fail at. Neil sitting in his father's desk chair when he shoots himself could, actually, be interpreted as a way of him finally saying to his father that "you're not the boss of me anymore".
By the way, the zoom-in to his dad's slippers is showcasing how Neil's dad likes everything ordered and in its place. He adjusts the slippers so, that they're perfectly lined up. Now that he's dealt with Neil, the family is back on track and "perfect" again. Only it's not...
After watching DPS and the final scene, I literally had to smile my way through the tears until I got to the safety of my room where I could break down fully- Neil’s death is so heartbreaking and as a person struggling with the same issue, it really hit me hard. To this day I still think this scene is one of the most masterfully executed scenes in movie history, although not one I can rewatch without crying.
My mother and I don't exactly have the closest relationship, but one day when I was about 18 i mentioned to her that this was my favourite film. She said she loved it too, because she could really relate to Neil (she comes from a very large, heavily religious family and very very strict parents). I told her that I related very much to Todd. We never really went into details about it, but I feel like I realised something very important about my mother that day, and why she may not show the most compassion, sympathy or emotion. She's actually quite emotionally unstable, and I don't think she's ever fully recovered from her hellish childhood and her overbearing parents.
Not only this moment, but the whole movie from the first second had me in more tears than anything I had seen before for being so insanely poetic, tragically beautiful and sad yet hopeful. It made my romantic little heart sing.
Another thought about Neil taking his shirt off and standing by the open window, then going to his father's study barefoot. It's winter. It's cold. But nothing in his house (no longer a home) provides any warmth or comfort for him. Not his dad, not his mom, not even simple clothing on a cold night will be able to provide comfort. I also think when he's looking out of the window he's weighing the two options one more time. He has the crown on, so it is one last time to experience what he wants, but it's also one last reflection to ascertain if he could live without what the crown offers. Can he succumb to his father and give up on his dreams and carry on?
I have to say your analysis of this part of the film is so good you rlly understand the significance. It wasn’t him or his passion that killed him, it was his father, his dad wanted Neil to be who himself wanted to be before but was never able to, never what Neil wanted, I believe he saw Neil as nothing but an extension of himself.
snow also symbolizes death, so maybe as it snows and they're all standing there, the ones with the hood on try not to embrace death - like hiding from it -, while the others try to open up / recognized the loss earlier.
todd is running through the snow, falling down and not able to keep his balance, like [neils] death is overwhelming him and pushing him down, as he's trying to cope with it. towards the end he starts walking - almost calm, as if he's facing this reality now.
edit: maybe that's also part of the reason neil opened the window and looked outside ; like he's ready to let go and welcomes the end of his life.
I believe that Neil thought about death a lot. When the teacher said on the first day that all the people in that room( including Neil) are food for worms, the reaction of Neil is in full shot. I know it may not be convincing, but having a key to the drawer where the gun was kept in his father office, knowing the gun was there and the way he went directly to get the gun after he "gave up on his crown" shows that he thought about the way he would kill himself. Plus, the way he said "I finally found something I like" or something similar, and the way he kept his feelings for him and let father take control of his live, indicates that he bearly enjoyed living and had no courage to change things, as his father strict attitude was crushing his motivation. There is a big contrast between who Neil was and how his father saw him. It was clear that he was searching for "that somthing"( which turns out to be acting, expressing emotions) and was always full of energy and open to try new things, but in front of his dad, everything reduces and is shuted to "yes sir". This contrast suggests that he was in a journey to discover life and happiness as you said. But the poem makes it clear that even though he found his joy in acting, he discovered the "life" he was missing, it was nothing. He couldn't do anything about it.
I honestly never cried as badly because of a movie as I did when watching the dead poets society. It's such a good movie
This part of the movie broke my heart into pieces. Neil was a talented and passionate kid. Most of all, he loved his friends. His friends loved him. When his friends found out and mourned his death, I lost it.
We all need a Neil in our life, especially an introvert like me who needs a passionate and sureful soul to push you and stand your ground.
The power of the mother's performance is proof there are no small parts.
Even if it's only appreciated in retrospect it's that which keeps the film timeless.
Regarding the slippers:
I was just thinking that, after someone (particularly a parent) has made such a huge decision and leveled such an indictment against his son (you're ungrateful, you're wasting your life, you don't know what's best for you), there's almost always some doubt and perhaps even residual guilt. A normal person wonders if they were too hard, wonders if they made the right decision, and questions their priorities, even if it's too late to change anything. A person like that is distracted and preoccupied; they waver in their usual routines. They may forget to shower, forget to eat, and forget particularly little things like squaring up their slippers for the next day.
Neil's father doesn't exhibit any of that uncertainty. He relentlessly goes through his nightly routine, lines his slippers up like he's done every night for the past 30 years, and goes to sleep. He doesn't feel any uncertainty or guilt about what he's done, because he doesn't see Neil as a person. He sees him as a valuable chess piece he just saved from capture, and is content.
this film made me cry, and this analysis did again.
I tried to watch this earlier yesterday (working my way through your videos chronologically) but it kept saying it was private, and then you got it through last night!
I absolutely love this movie and I think your analysis is great. Three things:
1. “Another 10 years” feels like a prison sentence to Neil. He was holding hope for becoming an adult and being able to make his own decisions in just a few years. But to know that his father has actually dictated his life for at least the next decade...I think he sees in that moment that it’s not ever going to stop. He will live the life his father wants for him forever. I think it’s less about the missed opportunities for acting as a career.
2. Going off of what you said about Neil being already dead when he doesn’t stand up to his father, and the death by suicide feeling like a ritual, it’s like his father sacrificed his son. All the actions we see are Neil as a puppet, controlled by his father.
3. It’s been a while since I watched the film, but I thought it was essentially text that there was a thread of homophobia around Neil and Mr. Keating, especially with Neil wanting to be an actor. I was surprised you didn’t mention anything about that angle of tension between Neil and his father.
I love your insights so much!
This is one of the most touching video essays I've ever watched, I absolutely adore Dead Poets Society, it's had such an impact on me and after re-watching it last night I can't help but constantly think about it...
Great film, seen it several times. Scariest suicide ever in a movie.
I've seen this movie countless times, so I didn't expect to end up bawling at the end of this breakdown, but here we are.
I'm speechless Joe, this one really hit hard to home
I wondered if Neil used his father's gun as a way of making his father blame himself. The gun was also symbolic of the military and perhaps it was saying that his chance of truly living would be killed in the military school.
Not to mention his father's WW2 service. I only realized this due to the commentary track!
This is a fantastic analysis. This is a very powerful moment in film that I remember really taking a big affect on me. It’s really nice to look deeper.
The Slippers are followed by the next scene, one more scene of organization, rigid conformity... the clothes, towels and bath things organized and folded on the bed.
Conformity was a staple. Neil's entire life was Conformity. And for some good reason, as in it worked to help his Father rise and achieve, and so he taught that to Neil as well.
And that's how Neil's Father was taught, likely by a poor man barely surviving the Great Depression. Hard times.
It's not Neil being ATTACKED by his Father... his Father is LITERALLY trying to ensure that Neil has a better life than he had, an easier life. He doesn't stop to wonder what Neil believes is a 'Better Life" though. Neil should have stood up and told him what acting meant to him, and his Father should have accepted that... he had done his job, helped guide Neil to a better position, but at the end of the day your kids have to be their own person and find their own path.
Neil's Father has ONE goal for Neil, and that is 'Better than I had, an easier life to endure'. Because he lived, I suppose, at some point in Poverty.
And sure, money doesn't fix everything... but lack of money destroys a lot of things. Life is more tense when you don't know if there is a next meal. There is something about enduring the shared struggle that is romanticized... much like we do with War and other dark things, but the reality is it's dark and rough and sucks.
But the point of the Slippers is just another show of orderly conformity... and one might also include that it's feet also, so still 'above' the transition to Neil in the next scene. Father big, Father above, Neil small, Neil below.
This was a very tearful way to start the day, but I really enjoyed it. Suicide is awful. I'm glad that you finally got this video re-uploaded.
I’ve been watching movie review channels for as long as I can remember enjoying movies more than just as a visual medium. But as an emotional experience. I cannot believe that I have only just found your channel. You do an amazing job with your breakdowns. Thoroughly enjoyed binge watching all your videos.
It's like you read my mind! I was trying to watch the original upload -yesterday- and I wasn't able to understand you through the loud music! 'Lo and behold here's your reupload!! Thank you so much for all the work you're doing. You are analyzing some of my favorite movies and I really love the thoughtful consideration you put into all of them!
here are my two cents:
even if it happened accidentally, neil meant it when his father asked him what he felt and he responded with "nothing." i don't think neil killed himself on a whim, neil was depressed for a long time. he was saying the truth when he told his father he felt nothing, but his father just didn't see it.
Nice work! Something that occurred to me as you were closing with your hopeful note is that it was Neil who told Todd that he [Todd] could be someone who said things and people listened. And it was Todd who started the rebellious salute at the end. He finally had the courage to be who Neil believed he could be. It’s a nice little note in the midst of such a big tragedy.
i watched this film today for the first time in depth and it is fantastic i searched to see if you had a review of it and was sad you didn’t then i saw again and realized you did and just posted one
The brilliant director of this film, the great Australian director Peter Weir, makes many fascinating statements about how they filmed this entire sequence - (his commentary was featured on the dvd extras and I’m sure it can be found. He discusses all of the amazing symbolism - how Neil becomes a little boy again sinking into the chair (as you noted he is much lower in the frame). The father has a fascinating backstory that we don’t really get in the film since there isn’t enough time though we do get hints of it. He is supposed to have been a WW2 vet with very deep psychological scars he can’t/won’t discuss from having been in active combat. In those days ptsd was just beginning to be studied and understood (the study began with the study of “shell shock” in WW1, the Great War, so psychiatrists realized that it was a real and very serious issue but ideas concerning what caused it and treatments were all varied? Men of that era, many of them, thought that suffering from such a condition was somehow a sign of weakness and that the best thing to do was to bury the memories and feelings, of course it’s impossible to truly hide or bury the deep scars caused by such profound trauma - look at how police officers today can be forced to leave the force after just one incident. The father has ptsd and his hyper vigilance and controlling behavior is his attempt to stave off the chaos of trauma and the ptsd - he’s having a sort of ptsd reaction when he hears the gunshot, the anxiety floods him, he wakes in great fear, his body is extremely tense, and his voice is cracking initially as he is howling “my son my son” - his soul, already made brittle by the effect of the war, shatters in that moment.
When the wife melts into near-madness, which people really do when seeing their loved ones dead - especially a CHILD - she can’t accept what she sees in front of her. It’s so much, so hard and so fast, that she loses the world she knew before. Using the word “alright” in that moment - a very bourgeoisie sort of term that calls attention to the horrific chasm between the reality of her son’s young fragile ruined body, the body she carried and nurtured in her own years before, on the floor and the “dream” of the uppper-middle-class life the family has been pretending to live and even pretending to enjoy (the mother’s alcohol use and sobbing in the bed *BEFORE* Neil completes suicide indicates that she is in truth deeply unhappy). Her agony-filled cries of “he’s alright” just made my soul ache…as other posters noted, it seems she has said this to herself before as she KNOWS things aren’t always “alright,” hence her use of alcohol and the nervous smoking (she knows how precarious it is and she loves Neil so deeply but is terrified to take any wrong step - the role of class in this movie is also fascinating as Neil’s family, while middle to lower-upper-middle class, is situated as the lowest economically of all the boys in Neil’s circle, and WAY below the more standard students of the school, the “star” athletic and wealthy boys like Charlie Dalton (who spent his summer sailing in New England luxury while Neil was forced to do extra schoolwork - his family also could not afford expensive summer vacations on sailboats in New England) or even the intellectual and true genius Meeks, who wins awards right and left and is strongly supported by his parents.
Neil has to WORK in every way, and his father imagines that a Harvard degree plus a medical degree is the best and only way to ensure Neil’s *freedom* from economic and social worry. Neil of course sees that long journey of ten + years (Harvard undergrad then medical school - a minimum total of ten years then time to establish oneself as a doctor takes even more time) as exactly the opposite - it will ruin his chance to do something else, to grasp as freedom and creativity, and to develop himself organically, in a true manner, rather than trying to fit himself into a safe spot in a tightly-define group.
I can't read through all of that at the moment, but yes, I was wondering if anyone else would mention the WW2 connection, as discussed in the commentary track. George Carlin has that famous routine on the topic; he begins with WW1 "Shell Shock," pointing out how the phrase really is evocative of how awful the condition is (he could have gone back even further to the US Civil War expression "Soldier's Heart," but never mind).
He then moves forward to WW2, when the condition was called "Battle Fatigue." It's a little more sanitized. He then mentions the Korean War, uptight 1950s America, when the term was "Operational Exhaustion," sounding even more clinical. He finishes with Vietnam, calling it "Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder," which is so dry it obscures the point. If they still called it "Shell Shock," maybe it would have been easier to get the sufferers the help that they needed (and still need).
Hi, I love your videos! I wanted to try and contribute on the matter of Neil's dad's slippers. The fact that it was zoomed in during Neil's last moments... It could've been anything, it could've been his dad's regular shoes - but why slippers? The significance of his dad wearing the slippers was probably supposed to foreshadow his reaction towards his son's dad. Throughout the film, his dad always had a rigid exterior - we always saw him in proper clothes and he's always firm with Neil. In this scene, he's wearing pajamas - that's maybe supposed to show his soft interior? Like, usually before my friends and I go to bed late at night, we'd grow more and more vulnerable (following deep, emotional conversations) as we get sleepier and comfortable in our soft pajamas. Back to the scene, that's probably the point of Neil's dad's panic as he hears the noise of Neil killing himself (and why WE can't hear it probably means this is his dad's turn to be empathetic, it's time for his dad to wake up and realize the gravity of the situation (apart from us who's always watched Neil from his point of view; a perspective his dad never showed any care for until now)). His dad, in pajamas (it looks so unusual because he's still drowsy from the setting being nighttime; he is opening up this side of him to us which we'd never seen before (because again, he'd always been more rigid and put together in the majority of the film)) discovers Neil's whole body - in a way that WE, again, can't see - and finally gets EXTREMELY emotional over the loss of his "SON". So in conclusion, maybe the zoom into his slippers were supposed to foreshadow that?
a potential other way of looking at the scene where neil undresses before bed is the Shakespeare quote 'Life's but a walking shadow; a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more' from Macbeth.
Bruh I want to watch all of your analysis but I’m sure I’m gonna cry in like 90% of them, keep making amazing work