What Does The Bible Say About Becoming A God?
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- Опубликовано: 29 июл 2024
- Are you curious to know what the Bible says about becoming a god? Is it possible to have more than one god? Can we become gods ourselves? In this episode, we'll explore some of the relevant verses that answer those questions and uncover the truth from Jesus' words about being a god!
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Key Moments In This Episode
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00:00 Intro & Summary
00:28 Underlying Questions About Becoming A God
01:01 What Jesus Said About People Being Gods
02:07 How Your Perspective Affects Your Understanding Of The Scripture
02:46 Why The Bible Uses The Term "Most High God"
04:01 How People Can Become Like God
05:23 Different Scriptures That Explain How We Are Children Of God
07:00 Different Scriptures That Explain How We Are Joint Heirs Of Christ
08:03 What The Bible Says About Becoming A God
08:43 Learn More About What The Bible Says
#BibleSays
#BibleSay
I was all set to have problems with this subject. But not now. This was very well done. Very refreshing. For others who might be interested in more, there are dozens of canonized saints/early Christians, who taught this understanding from the 2nd to the 4th centuries. It was all over the early Christian world. The question is 'why did it disappear?' and, 'why do so many churches teach against our divine potential and inheritance? Often I find Christians using Isaiah 43:10 and a similar one a few chapters later, to refute this idea. But they are using it wrong.
Thank you for your insights. I would love to read some of the resources you mentioned that discuss the early Christian understanding.
1 Corinthians 8:5 KJV: For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
An after thought: Offspring can only mean one thing in any language, any context, any reality and that is..... OF KIND. 😊
Thanks for sharing!
I compare humans to caterpillars and gods to butterflies
Ooh. I like that!
Thanks for taking the time to create this content. Very educational. Especially for those of us who don’t easily understand the Bible
You are very welcome. 🙏🏻
I recommend you talking to Missionaries from the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints. They would give you so much information on this subject.
@@kristen_franklin It is your own interpretation of the Bible. To become like God is Biblical. It is taught by the Savior Himself. To say that this is not Biblical is only your opinion. Seek the truth and not rely on one or few verses. Read the whole Bible and see what God commanded and promises His people.
Here are few verses to start with (Read King James Version as it is the most accepted version by people):
1 Peter 1:4-7 (What does it mean to "be partakers of divine nature"?
Psalms 82:6
Genesis 2:17; Genesis 3:22 (What does it mean that a "a man become as one of us" that taught by God?)
John 10:33-34 (Why Jesus needs to explained the scriptures about His Godhood to the people who claim to know the scriptures?)
Revelation 3:21 (What does it mean to sit with God in His throne? Kings and Queens or people in high power can only sit on a throne.)
Acts 17:29; Romans 8:16-17 (What these scriptures teach about your identity and your potential?)
gods and Gods are completely different concepts. We are already gods in many different ways because we can currently bring order to chaos.
Good point.
Here are a few of my favorites:
Romans 8:
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
1 John 3:
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
John 10:
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Early Church Fathers
Irenaeus of Lyon, Adversus haereses, 3.19.1. 130 to 202 AD.
"For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God."
St. Athanasius, On the Incarnation of the Word 54.3. 326-373 AD
"For He was as made man that we might be made God."
Thomas Aquinas, Opusc. 57, 1-4. 1225-1274 AD
"The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."
Thanks for sharing
Philippians 2:5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God
Thanks for sharing!
Those who disagree dont believe the Bible or what Jesus or Isaiah said. Doctrine of Theosis was very clear in early times. Even the patristics and early church fathers taught it. Even CS Lewis understood this was the telos (ultimate purpose).
Thanks for contributing to the conversation
This is a doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Yes, it's taught in the Bible and Book of Mormon
I have to push back here and suggest you do a little more research. Don't just take the word of someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. Attend and LDS Sacrament Meeting, meet some of our members, read the Book of Mormon. Then make your judgement and see if you still want to make claims like this.
@@WhatBibleSay Hey, I am an active Latter-day Saints :) My comment is to let the people that the doctrines taught in your video are true and are only found in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
God by definition is infinite. We are finite. We cannot become gods. To believe otherwise is to not be a follower of Jesus Christ. When Jesus asked his disciples "who do you say I am?", this was absolutely pivotal to their salvation. There are many false Jesus' today. Many manmade religions have distorted the truth and believed in a lie. Jesus warned us about this.
There is truth in what you are saying. I’ll use a different word from finite to illustrate something powerful.
God is perfect, we are imperfect. The atonement and sacrifice of Jesus Christ extend the invitation to become one with him and have our sins washed away. Through Jesus Christ, our advocate and mediator, we are made perfect.
The true meaning of a living person who is God as being infinite doesn't mean always has been but it definitely means always will be. :>)
I agree with you that we are in a finite state. That said, I also believe we existed before this finite, mortal existence and that we will also exist after this finite mortal existence. Thus, in that vein, we are infinite beings in a temporary, finite state. We cannot become like God in this finite state so I agree with you there. That said, this finite state doesn't fully define us. I believe we'll exist after we die and so there must be some point to it all.
Another argument I could see against this video is. If God is the father of our spirits, why would he cause that the good news of the gospel be shared with only a handful of his children. Without going into a ton of detail, 1 Perer 3:18 - 19 touches on this briefly wherein it states that spirits in prison were being taught. That scripture implies, at least to me, that God is a fair, just God because, even though this finite life may seem unfair, especially when we consider how many people have never lived in a location to learn of Christ, that there are opportunities even after death to learn of Christ. A lot to think about. I personally LOVED this video!
@kristofersagers8158 we did not exist before we came into our "finite state." That is nonsensical! Jesus is God. He was not created. He created all things. ALL THINGS! That means us! Joseph Smith knew this was problematic, so he figured he would find a loophole (as you've explained it), and his followers wouldn't question it. There are just way too many inconsistencies in the LDS religion. To believe we can become God's is the most heretical teaching. God NEVER became God. He IS God! Always was and always will be. God of ALL that exists. There are no other universes that Mormons will be gods over. This is ridiculous and only found in the Mormon teachings that came from a sinful man who had 34 wives, some of whom were married to other men. This is a man his followers call a true prophet of God.
@@romans1vs6teen The scriptures disagree with you. Job 38 is quite clear we are the very morning stars and sons of God who shouted for joy to the plan of our creation.
Job 38
1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Hi, I love psalm. I find it very interesting so I think we read it in context.
Psalm 82
God has taken His place in the divine assembly; He judges among the gods: “how long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Provide justice for the needy and fatherless; uphold the right of the oppressed and the destitute. Rescue the poor and the needy save them from the power of the wicked.” They do not understand they wonder in darkness. All the foundations of the Earth are shaken. I said “ you are gods; you are all sons of the Most High. However you will die like men and fall like any other ruler.”
Rise up, God, judge the earth, for all the nations belong to you.
Thanks for sharing
THEOSIS
“Theosis,” “Deification,” or “Divinization,” and it actually has a solid pedigree among orthodox theologians, apologists, fathers, doctors, and saints of the Church. But where did they get this idea? After all, Scripture clearly teaches that there is only one God. This is evident from writings in both testaments including historical, prophetic, poetic books as well as gospels and epistles (e.g., Dt. 6:4, 2 Kgs. 19:19; Isa. 45:5; Ps. 86:10; Jn. 5:44; 1 Cor. 8:4; etc.). Further, it is clear from Scripture that men are not God and vice versa (e.g., Num. 23:19; 1 Sam. 15:29; Hos. 11:9, etc.).
However, Scripture also teaches that man can become God-like.
“I say, ‘You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you’” (Ps. 82:6 cf. Jn. 10:34)
“The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one” (Jn. 17:22-23)
“Know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God” (Eph. 3:19)
“You may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature“ (2 Pet. 1:4)
“Beloved, we are God’s children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him“ (1 Jn. 3:2)
These passages suggest what theologians have called the “Formula of Exchange” - a teaching directly tied to the role of Jesus’ Incarnation’s in our salvation. However, neither these nor any other verses mean that human nature can be changed into the divine nature of God. What they mean is that human nature can partake in the divine nature of God.
So, if quotes from Church fathers, doctors, saints, popes, etc. are found that seem to indicate otherwise, they are not being understood correctly. While it is easy to compile quotes from various writers that “clearly” state that man can become God, there is always a theological context that must be kept in mind.
The guiding principle concerning these sorts of statements is that when divinity is predicated of humanity, it is according to participation in grace, not to generation by nature. In other words, “divinity” in these cases does not refer to a change in what something is, but rather what it is like. For example, when we participate in the Eucharist, we “become the body of Christ” (see 1 Cor. 10:16-17) - but we do not become the divine savior of the world!
St. Augustine makes this all-important distinction clear when he says,
"He has called men gods, that are deified of His Grace, not born of His Substance. For He does justify, who is just through His own self, and not of another; and He does deify who is God through Himself, not by the partaking of another. But He that justifies does Himself deify, in that by justifying He does make sons of God. “For He has given them power to become the sons of God.” John 1:12 If we have been made sons of God, we have also been made gods: but this is the effect of Grace adopting, not of nature generating. For the only Son of God, God, and one God with the Father, Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, was in the beginning the Word, and the Word with God, the Word God. The rest that are made gods, are made by His own Grace, are not born of His Substance, that they should be the same as He, but that by favor they should come to Him, and be fellow-heirs with Christ. (Exposition on Psalm 50, 2)”
St. Thomas Aquinas is helpful here as well, because he more regularly states the qualifications that are needed. Note that in the quotes below, the highlighted statements sound quite “clear” until clarifying terms such as “sharers in” or “participation in” are added into the equation. Throughout his writings, Aquinas is adamant that the ontological distance between God and man (or any creature) is so far (namely, infinite!) that the two cannot even be compared on the same scale. God is so utterly “other” than mankind that human knowledge cannot comprehend God’s essence, nor can our language adequately communicate God’s essence.
Aquinas’s language concerning deification, then, must be understood in accordance with this position. Thus, in his theology of deification, he says things such as this:
"But the Son did not love the disciples in either of these ways. For he did not love them to the point of their being gods by nature, nor to the point that they would be united to God so as to form one person with him. But he did love them up to a similar point: he loved them to the extent that they would be gods by their participation in grace ‑ “I say, ‘You are gods’” (Ps 82:6); “He has granted to us precious and very great promises, that through these you may become partakers of the divine nature” (2 Pet 1:4) ‑ and he loved them to the extent that they would be united to God in affection: “He who is united to the Lord becomes one spirit with him” (1 Cor. 6:17); “For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son” (Rom 8:29). Thus the Father communicated to the Son a greater good, with respect to each nature of the Son, than the Son did to his disciples; yet there is a similarity, as was said." (Commentary on the Gospel of John, 1999)
Saints Augustine and Aquinas are the heaviest of the theological heavyweights in the Catholic Church. Their theological qualifications concerning deification can be applied to similar statements of orthodox theologians, apologists, doctors, and saints of the Church even when they do not indicate it in every particular statement. (Note: even when this distinction is not stated plainly, it is most often implied by terms such as “of” or “with” that can be easily glossed over if one is not looking for them.)
But what does this notion of participation mean?
The distinction between participation in grace and generation by nature is critical if one is to understand what these orthodox theologians are saying - one that, if missed or misunderstood, can lead to the kind of metaphysical confusion one finds in Mormonism or the Word Faith movement.
Here an illustration might help. St. John of Damascus speaks of being our “inflamed and deified by the participation in the divine fire.” Fire makes for a good analogy for participation. Consider a frying pan being heated over a fire. When the pan is put into contact with fire, it participates in the fire’s heat (i.e., it becomes hot). Now, the heat of the fire is what the fire is by nature, but the heat of the pan is that which it has by participation. When fire heats the pan, heat can be said to be part of what the pan is - but both the fire and the pan remain unchanged according to their basic natures. The pan becomes hot but it never becomes fire - hot or not, it remains a pan. Because both the fire and the pan can be said to “be” heat, there is an analogical sense in which the pan can be said to “be” fire - but this must be understood as referring literally to the pan’s participation in the fire’s heat - not that the pan literally becomes fire by nature. In the same way that we can say (accurately, but only analogically), that the pan can “become” fire, we can say that man can “become” God.
Participation also implies difference. God does not simply have more power than man, God’s power is of a wholly different kind. The same goes for all of God’s attributes: presence, knowledge, love, goodness, etc. God’s presence is also entirely unlike that of us human persons, as we must be in a particular place, while God is everywhere. So to say than God is present at church is not the same thing as saying a man is present at church. Similarly, even if a man were to somehow know all things, he would not be omniscient in the way God is. God knows all things as their creator - their first cause. This gives God a kind of knowledge man will never have, even if man could in theory learn all facts.
In saving mankind, God’s grace does not destroy nature, but perfects it; yet, even a perfected human nature is still limited to being what it is. It will always remain finite - and the distance between finite and infinite is so great that it is not a difference so much as a complete distinction. The same will always be true of God and man. God is absolutely unique and the infinite chasm between the Creator and the creature can never be crossed. It is clear from the writings of those who make such statements that no orthodox theologian is confused on this point, and such statements need to be read with the above distinctions in mind.
“If anyone desire in this way to be Godlike, he commits no sin; provided that he desires such likeness in proper order, that is to say, that he may obtain it of God. But he would sin were he to desire to be like unto God even in the right way, as of his own, and not of God’s power.” (St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiæ I, Q.63, A.3)
Thanks for your comments. You nearly wrote a book. 😀 I’m just grateful for a living prophet that removes all question.
God says you can't be a god.
ISAIAH 43:10
"...That you may know and believe Me.
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed.
Nor shall there be after Me..."
ISAIAH 45:5
"I am the Lord, there is no other;
There is no God besides Me..."
There you are Mormons, God Himself telling you that you cannot be a god.
I love these verses. What do you think about all the other verses in the Bible?
I find it interesting how you are cherry picking scriptures to justify your position. Yet I wonder if you grasp or fully understand those scriptures. I wonder if you believe in the words of Christ. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or Mormons as you call them believe in the Bible. The difference is that they believe that things have been added to and taken away from the Bible. My question is, Can you reconcile the different scriptures within the Bible without questioning the Bible or what you believe? I love the Bible, but it has come through many years of translation. I believe it is the word of God, but that men are imperfect and to some degree have corrupted the book. I desire to know from God what is true within its pages. I look at the whole book hoping to know from God the truth. I don't cherry pick verses just to use against other people of faith. I hope that you consider doing a deep dive into the Bible, and go to God with a sincere heart to receive an answer of truth. Put aside what you think you know and call upon him to teach you his truth.
@@confusedwhynot
Nothing has been "cherry picked" (a phrase you Mormons fall back on to avoid seeing great the Biblical truth of you being g misled by the Mormon church).
Everything quoted from the Bible is "Good Biblical contextual analysis.
This is not applying the scriptures contextually and lacks understanding.
God is defining Himself as the only God and we are to have no other God or God besides Him. There has never been a different God for us to worship nor shall we ever have a different God because He is literally our father. God is saying "I am the only one".
That doesn't invalidate the promises of the covenant God has made with us that we will inherit all that He has if we are faithful. God promised us that and God cannot lie.
@amurry1030
Well, according to Biblical evidence, your wrong. You base your personal statement on "backroom conspiracy theories" than contextual Biblical evidence.
Yes. John 10 Jesus cites scripture to back up he is God. What does he quote? Psalm 82. All other claims in John he's claiming he's God, but here he backs it up with scripture.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm interested to know your thoughts about the episode "What Does the Bible Say About Prophets."
@@WhatBibleSay I believe I saw you on true millennial, and I learned a lot from you there. I look forward to other discussions in the future.
I'll have to check it out, but from where I see it now there have always been apostasies throughout the old testament and continued into the new testament. So how did God end apostasy? By calling a prophet. You can see it in the book of Moses with Enoch, then again w Noah, then Moses, then later prophets like Isaiah, Amos, etc. Then fast forward to the Catholic era, then to Protestant time where Protestants recognized the apostasy. Then fast forward to USA religious freedom. How does God end apostasy? By calling a prophet. So using your critical thinking methodology I came to the conclusion the first vision can't be anything other than from God. Otherwise I'd have to claim 1. There is no God, 2. The bible is false, or 3. Satan is more powerful than God and intercepted that prayer and lead Joseph to Jesus to lead him away from Jesus. What are the odds God didn't end the apostasy by calling a prophet? What are the odds that was a vision of the devil? Zero to me. So everything after was of God. Moroni, the book of Mormon, the priesthood restoration to now. All from God.
Also revelation says in the last days two prophets will be killed in Jerusalem and resurrected. How can that come to pass if God isn't calling more prophet's?
ruclips.net/video/ci3zUBroq3k/видео.htmlsi=Hu0aaroPMWNrz6Yy
@@outof_obscurity Love this!
Mosiah 15: 11-12
Great verses!
Please read psalm 82:7
Reading that just now definitely gives one a reality check!
I read it and like what I'm reading. Why did you want me to read it?
All verses in context paint a hopeful picture.
@@WhatBibleSayIf Mormonism was false and christianity was true would you become a Christian?
@@RealityCheckWithKayla I commit to following Jesus Christ.
“Ye will be as gods” Genesis 3:5
Thanks for sharing
Is this not the lies of the serpent though
““You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.””
Genesis 3:4-5 NIV
Not watching the video, just came for the comments to see what this guy was on about. Thank you for putting this verse here. The fact that he didn't recognize who speaks this line tells me everything I know about how well he knows the Bible.
Can you clarify.
@@WhatBibleSay No. Read the Bible you pretend to be an expert in and figure it out.
LOL
the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints proved we are the children of god, destined to become gods (goddesses) 150 years ogo.
and now you are starting to get it ?
Thanks for joining the conversation.
@@WhatBibleSay
your welcome.
The Scriptures are not confusing at all, but requires patience in allowing the Holy Spirit to guide you into all truth, for there is no greater teacher then the Holy Spirit.
Yup, everything said is very controversial, why? Because you have no discernment of the Scriptures, and I noticed, like most LDS apologists or LDS members I come across here, you cherry pick very specific verses without the contextual meaning of everything before and after it.
This is what spiritual blindness looks like, for you have to be truly born again of the Spirit in order to have the Holy Spirit within you who will lead you into all truths of God's word. How interesting you completely leave out Isaiah in which God is very clear that there are no Gods before, nor shall there ever be after, and he knows of no other God. Why? Because God is eternal, from eternity to eternity, as is Jesus Christ, who is the Word, as we see in 1 John 1:1, meaning, Jesus is the expressed image of God, the incarnate physical embodiment of the Father, NOT 3 separate "Gods".
Isaiah 43:10 “before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.“
Isaiah 44:6 “ I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. “
Isaiah 44:8 “ Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. “
Also of note, the Hebrew Bible does not say that Satan is a "God" but that he is the prince of the world, the ruler, why? Because of the fall of Adam in the garden. Satan is the prince of the world, and also of the air, which is why, if you actually study the Scriptures, why Jesus "rebuked" the wind that was trying to sink their ship with all the apostles on it, because that was Satan who created that great storm in the first place trying to destroy Jesus and his followers in one go. (that is a discussions for another time)
I love Isaiah. So much gold in those verses. Thanks for sharing your perspective!
If you look closely, You'll notice Isaiah is specifically referring to Jesus Christ when you don't "cherry pick" portions of the context of the verses and cut off previous or latter verses. Notice the words Redeemer and Savior immediately referring to the verses you've posted. And remember who was sent to create the world.... teach the prophets... become a man, atone for us all and redeem the whole shebang. Yup... He is the only God for all that, None of the other false idols spoken of prior to those passages can be our Savior and Redeemer. He knows not any, there are none before, beside or after Him as Jesus is the only one God for the job of Saving the world.
Guess what brother??..... HE HAS A FATHER who sent Jesus to do all these things.
Proof positive: Jesus loves His Father and His Father loves Him back. Can 1 God love each other?? Nope.... it always takes at least two Gods to love each other. 😊😇
Love your comments.
@@WhatBibleSay Gee thanks!! Love your shows. :>)