No, actually I have one eye, I lost the other one in a BB gun incident several years ago. I am playing with antennas with radials that could potentially blind me if I am not careful and I always wear glasses outside to protect the only eye I have left in the event a neighbors kid is playing with a slingshot.. Is there any other reasons I can provide?
We used the same type of “fold and collapse” antenna with the “PRC” series of radios in Vietnam in the 70’s... concept and design is over 50 years old...
Lower noise compared to dipole in the attic.....I'm impressed. Better than a loop. Easy setup and take down....made with quality materials....thumbs up. The only problem I have would be if I forgot to disconnect and move the coax before the landscapers come and run over it. Thanks Eric and John.
Here's a tip: go to military surplus places and get field phone wire. It has steel and silver plated copper wires inside. It is a twisted pair, incredibly strong and weather resistant. No need for fancy PTFE stuff.
I have nearly the same setup except I have the stainless steel "Jaws of Death" adjustable clamp. I have the original antenna with the shock cord and aluminum ferrules. With the original antenna it's good practice to wipe the connecting joints clean and use a dielectric compound like Noalox every couple of months. I'll have to get me that spike/grounding device. These antennas work! W0YVY 73
NOQIC HERB MY BIRTHDAY IS 3-22-1944 SENCE YOU ARE GIVING BOTH OF THE QUAD AND THE 8 BAND ANT LOVE TO HAVE THEM..THANKS 73S YOU ARE ALL GREAT SOUND AND VEDIO
Looks to be a very nice antenna and I can't really see the HOA saying much about it nor anybody really seeing it. It's nice they are using quality parts as well. Thanks for sharing it Eric! 73
Here is an idea, I would use screw-in type insulators, what we used in the old days to keep TV 300 ohm ribbon line away from eaves on the house, AND then string the wire around the entire home. A thin wire say 20ga or even magnet wire is invisible! and feed it at your window to act like a "cloud warmer" or closed loop. Although it is not high, this antenna has proven results. (with an antenna tuner) I have used this in the past, about 20 years ago when I was in an apartment and it worked great! but then again the activity was great and sunspots were at a high level. BUT I would give this a try. Just my 2-cents, 73 DE KD6SBR Tom in NV
Great Video. I am really considering getting back into Ham radio, as I'm looking at the IC-7300 and need an antenna that is portable, or just have some fun around the house. I don't live in a HOA community, but like the convenience of the Chameleon MPAS 2.0. Thanks for sharing. Dave
I ordered a IC-7300 from Gigaparts last week. Gonna be home for 4-6 weeks so a good time to learn a new radio. Has anyone seen any data pertaining to noise generated by buried power cables? Could buried cables effect our ground planes?
I can see that you are truly convinced about your antenna. Congratulations! Julian OH8STN also uses Chameleon antennas up in very cold Scandinavia. For people with some extra cash on hand, I am sure this would be a good antenna. I have to do amateur radio on a tight budget, so I will have to pass on this for now.
@@HamRadioConcepts I do have end fed halfwave antennas for a couple of bands. I hang them vertically on fiberglass masts. The efhwa for 20 meters hangs great from a 12 meter spiderbeam mast. I tape the wire to the mast using cheap masking tape. For temporary ops this works fine. I put the mast in a 1 meter long pvc pipe. I stake out the pvc pipe using 3 or 4 tent pegs and some cordage. Even with the 12 meter mast, the whole thing stands very stable, even in winds up to 70kmh. I have also made an inverted "V" dipole for 20 meters and use only an 8 meter telescope fishing pole (squid pole) and a much narrower diameter pvc pipe. The other endfeds for 15, 10 and 6 meters hang great vertically from this kine of mast. With practice, I'm certain people could set this up in under 10 minutes. I use speaker wire and cheap, lightweight 1:1 baluns (commercially purchased). The antennas handle 100 watts. I don't need to use any kind of tuner. SWR and other specs are very good. 20 meters and upper bands are daytime bands, so putting the antenna up at night would not do much good. Put a US flag on the mast and call it a flagpole. Let the HOA try to litigate that. HOA can only object if pole hangs out over sidewalk and/or is dangerous and could injure someone.
HOA’s Are nuts I can understand some of the rules but so many of them go overboard we have to ask permission to open your front door and leave for the day. I would never ever complain about somebody putting something temporary up as a hobby just to have a little bit of fun for the afternoon.
Mike The Wood Worker Absolutely! At my mom's place in Florida all potted outdoor plants must be licensed. Pots are size restricted and the license is not transferable if you sell your property to a new owner. Yes HOA s are nuts !
My Ho'Ah President lives directly behind my house. He rode my arse in 2005 for having an antenna he thought was eavesdropping his wireless phone calls. Also I was bleeding into his baby monitor and surround sound. For that reason, now legal with a General and off the 11m band, I need to ease into amateur radio. This antenna looks just right for me. So does the 7300. Why buy a 60ft tower and a $2k radio only to find I'm pissing off the neighbor, again. Any advice Eric on harmonics? Do any of your neighbors complain?
Eric, thank you for all your videos. They are very informative. I also live in an HOA and need something portable and easy to put up and take down. I am planning to purchase the Yaesu FT891 and use this antenna with it. My question is, should I consider a tuner for the MPAS 2.0?
I have the MPAS 1.0 and from the Chicago suburbs outside my condo, similar to your buddy’s condo, I was reaching throughout the the Caribbean on a DX contest last weekend. BTW, explain what was in the Gatorbox, please, I’ve thought about putting my 7300 in a 4u shallow with my LDG IT-100 and maybe a small BHI speaker.
I have both. The Wolf River coil is a nice tunable antenna. But my MPAS, even though it requires a tuner, is my go to. Crazy quick and easy to deploy and take down with great results.
I've spent a couple years tackling the HOA/Apartment Gestapo, and I've finally found a way to beat it. I'm using an ICOM IC-7100 with the control head connected to a Remote Rig box. The RR is connected to my apartment wifi. The other RR is in my car, which is also connected my aparment wifi, about a good 30 feet away from the building. The RR in the car is connected to the ICOM 7100 base. This is where it gets interesting - I have the base connected to a tarheel and a screwdriver motor controller. Finally I have a MFJ 17 foot whip on top of the tarheel. I can tune 6-80 meters from inside my apartment! Now the really interesting problem of power - the base is connected to a 20ah bioenno LiFe battery which supplies plenty to do 100 watts. The problem is how do I keep it charged? I could charge thru the car battery, but I have to waste gas to do so. The final touch to the system is a 14 watt rollable solar panel/charg controller on top of my car roof, providing plenty of top off charge for the bioenno (Florida sun doesnt hurt either!) Great prepper setup as well as I simply can bring the ICOM control head down to the car to provide emergency comms. This would work in any HOA as well. Let them bitch about a 17 foot antenna on the car - sorry HOA, I've never seen a rule about car antennas - WINNING!
I was extremely lucky to find the antenna mast that replaced the military's 292 at an army navy store. Stolen at 100 bucks! Only trouble is mine takes some time, space and multiple guy wires. Hate to say it, if I had 600 bucks to spend, I would buy it in a heartbeat!
Years back I had a dispute about a CB antenna with my HOA so I built a linear actuated antenna and mounted it up on the roof in the middle of the night. I only used it late at night so when I wanted to talk I simply hit the switch and erected the antenna after dark and retracted it before daylight ;)
They are all watching you guys out there and probably now know that you are up to mischief. I tried putting a dipole along my parapet roof wall and I was turned in by an old lady that did nothing but stare out the window all day. Apparently also around midnight. KK7T.
Stephen Taylor I have one of those across the street from me. Never married, it’s her job in life to make life miserable for others. She was walking along the sidewalk & pulled up dead flowers around my mailbox.
It's not clear to me at John's QTH what he actually owns vs what is "common" or "jointly owned" HOA property. How much, if anything, of that grassed area that he referred to as his backyard does actually own?
Great video. Now I am gonna have to go out and order one of these. My only problem is trying to figure out how to put it into the ground. No New York City Park, like Central Park, allows for sticking things into the ground. But I might be able to make the antenna invisible by placing it near trees. Thanks again for the video.
Just bought one of these not tried it yet. But now we are isolating because of the virus I will give it a try does the tree cause any problems to the signal. Keep well and stay safe. Alan in the UK ( England ).
Exactly. The FCC laws override HOAs. Now, I wouldn’t consider putting a tower up in an HOA, but if someone is going to complain about a wire antenna like this one, I would say “see you in court”!
What's dumb is that HOAs complain about a metal stick in the yard, but they don't complain about the gas meter, circuit breaker box, cable tv coax, roof vent pipes, or even power lines in neighborhoods that don't have underground electrical wiring.
Our subdivision does not have the larger side lot areas as in Florida. Could this antenna be mounted on the rear downspout with stand off to keep the antenna from touching the downspout.
I've never been interested in radio until the COVID-19 scare reared it's ugly head. Now I can see there's so much more to it! I'm learning a little at a time but with computer connect-ability it looks like a very practical and fun skill to learn.
I have a very restrictive association, I set up every weekend, on my porch, with my home made 6 ft diameter magnetic loop on a tripod 5 ft off the ground and operate my IC 7300 from battery or shore power and work 75 meters and 40 meters, I check into the 3952 khz Western public service system net and on 7156 khz on ZS3D Dannie list operating 90 watts and works decent considering how ridiculously small relatively compared to what others use. I use a 9kv to 10kv Caldwell, air variable capacitor I bought on ebay for $70 and an octagon shaped 1 1/4" pvc & 2" copper tape wrapped loop. 73's de N7XO from Sin City
Thanks for this review. I live in a hoa development and our covenant mentions ham radio antennas. I also have some noise generated in my house and if I could get the antenna out away from the house that would be a big help. How can I support your channel and maybe get one of your cool shirts? Jack Martin
That antenna is great for a HOA, not so great for us apartment dwellers who can't put anything outside. I wish I could afford a loop. It would be better than all of the wire that I have mounted to my ceiling.
Noob HF question...So how does this perform when most of the traffic on HF is horizontally polarized? Since this is vertical, will I miss most/a lot of the HF traffic or doesn't it really matter?
If I was in a HOA like that I would find a bunch of none conductive plastic or rubber leaves and attach them. In AZ I have seen cell towers that look like a cactus.
@@bloodycrepe My grass is neat and trim and I do it once a week. I live in an HOA but I own my home like anyone else. Just because you have an HOA where you live it does not mean it is a townhouse type area where they take care of your yard. and that one does not. Either way, he wants to hide it when it is up. Just a thought, that is all.
@@StanCook fair point. However grass looks like it's levelled throughout multiple properties that makes me think it was done via HOA contractor on same day. I could be wrong. OP can respond. OP was also sticking antenna closer to neighbors house than his. If this property is zoned he could have been trespassing. Possibly best place for it would be in the back out of everyone's view. I live in HOA myself and violate rules behind the house where no one can see it.
This antenna sould work well on 20m and above, but on 40 or even 30m would be very inefficient and forget anything on 80m. but have seen some get good success on 20m. Get any antenna long enough, at least 1/4 wavelength and it can perform. SWR only means getting power into the radiator, how it performs is totally different issue. From the video the signals were S2-3, not very strong and they were at times giving 59, a joke.
That is probably my fault i would imagine, LOL, they probably had no idea I was making videos on it, and no way to prepare so it must have buried them. That same thing happened with that Nano-spot hotspot years ago.
I just ordered one from R&L Electronics on Friday and it will be delivered on Wednesday. It was cheaper than other Distributors had it listed for as well.
Home Owners Association. And they suck. I'll never live in one. They set the rules and you basically have no rights to do anything. I'd rather live in the woods than to deal with those kind of people.
It stands for Homeowners Association. A homeowners association (HOA) is an organization in a subdivision, planned community or condominium that makes and enforces rules for the properties and their residents. Those who purchase property within an HOA's jurisdiction automatically become members and are required to pay dues, known as HOA fees. Some associations can be very restrictive about what members can do with their properties. Something I could never be a part of.
Home Owners Association. HOA. When you buy a house, it comes with an agreement that you must follow all the HOA rules. Such as not repairing your pickup in the front yard, what color you can paint your house or doors, NO outside antennas, NO towers, etc.
Living in a house in an HOA is no inconvenience if you don't aim to alter your property drastically and agree with the other restrictions, such as what you may park in your driveway and how many ceramic flamingos can populate your lawn. Some HOAs provide lawn-care services, which suits me fine, as I have no interest in lawns or their care.
Ouch. I was thinking about getting into HF and the 7300 is the most popular unit. Saw this video and antenna. Said that might work for my situation since I won't put up a permanent , clicked the link and said that killed my plans for now. Can't justify paying that at the moment.
@@dwayne5530 Would you be better off buying a cheap 2nd hand radio such as the Yaesu FT-450D ? spend more on Antennas. The MPAS 2.0 is expensive but seems to work very well and you can use it as a base antenna + portable, that's pretty cool. I'm not sure of any other vertical antenna that is so stealthy, easy to setup and can work multiple bands with decent swr with which any modern radio should be able to flatten out.
Myantennas.com EFHW 8010, 40 meters long and is resonant on multiple bands without a tuner except for me the higher portion of 80m above 3750 Khz, 80 m here in Europe ends at 3800 so no big deal, the tuner flattens the 2.5:1 swr out. I have mine installed up high in a N/S E/W config. Get great DX + NVIS. EFHW with 49:1 UNUN work really well, mostly no tuner needed except for maybe some of 80m as with my installation. Resonant on multiple bands, no radials, coax is the only counterpoise needed. Good ground and you're good to go. Hyendfed.nl make these too only they have the option to select where you want 80m to be resonant, higher or lower portion of 80m. They also make a 23 meter long EFHW with a coil for 80m and it works pretty well, bandwidth is limited on 80m but well within any modern radio tuner, it can be shortened too to get the desired SWR. Random wires with 9:1 UNUN need radials and tuner to work, the EFHW with 49:1 does not and is much easier to setup. I would not bother building these as getting all the bands in resonance can be very tricky, they don't cost a lot either. the MPAS 2.0 is a good antenna, SWR is decent across all bands and it gets out well, can be used as base antenna and taken portable, that's pretty cool. Expensive but I am not aware of a vertical antenna that is so easy to take down and set up with good SWR on all bands that doesn't require re-tuning at the antenna which means running in and out at every band change.
'out of stock' now...your video convinced everybody apparently:) another quick question, what antenna tuner are you planning to use with this antenna connected to the ic-705 please? 73 from Belgium
Wire antennas are cheap and harder to see. Granted, you have to actually do some research to get em just right, but for 700USD, you can build one HELL of an antenna or several antennas that will likely outperform this ground mounted vertical.
I would string a lightweight nearly invisible end fed wire from the house to one of those trees. Most the type of people who would complain probably can't see it anyway.
Put it up beside the Evergreen tree and you would never see it. I bet no one would notice if you put it up top of the tree during the night. out of a a palm tree. Never see it unless you pointed it out to someone. Sounds like an advert!
Okay I just ordered one so will report back on this thread in the future and pass along my experience. Also order the four pack of additional counterpoise.
i would check out the FCC'S OTARD rules which supersede your HOA, if your HOA is giving you any grief just directly them to the FCC's sit and also contact the FCC and let them know they are violating your rights. ... this rule is mostly designed for TV but they can apply to HAM's given its very broad stroke. im sure something related to the OTARD that can be used for HAMs as well. side note: years ago when i was stuck in an HOA i was always center of their attention, with my radios and drones and stuff, they backed way off when i told them that it was a form of censorship denying the right to use the radio...
The FCC rules for out door antennas in HOAs is limited to 1m size antennas, not something very big and was written to allow for Satellite and TV antennas. Is bill in Congress to expand it, but has been held up for couple years, once by our ex-Senator from FL, he lost election in 2018.
I didnt mean it like that, I know it sounded like that. What I meant was the people commenting that their Buddipole is the only one and everything else is Chinese overpriced junk, and I just spit the word buddi out. Didnt mean it like that, but thought noone would notice the way I phrased it.
I’m a huge fan of the Chameleon Antennas! I have several of their products. I’ve had my eye on the Buddipole. A friend of mine was lucky enough to win one few months ago. I’m incredibly impressed with the build quality! There’s a lot of great engineering in action. The modular nature of it makes it really easy to extend the capabilities and to replace any parts if they get lost or damaged.
Nice video Eric. I have the Chameleon whip and I use it at my HOA Condo and it works fine but there is a lot of noise. My understanding is that man made noise is mostly vertically polarized and vertical antennas tend to pick up more man made noise than others (i.e., dipole, slopers). So, that's not the case? I also noticed he didn't set up any counterpoise wires (or did he)?. I know the metal stake is a grounding point but it's not ideal. I always use counterpoise wires. 73/KG7VCL
Well, you are correct however his situation required antennas in the attic which pull in noise to almost S8-S9, so being outside with the vertical is ten times better than in his attic, as you couldnt hear any of these stations in the attic.
What aspect of antennas do HOAs object to? Just the appearance? In the Dallas area, HOAs make news by ridiculous regulations. One of them made someone take down a 20-foot flagpole from which flew the American flag. Then there was the guy who got gigged for replacing his natural lawn with astroturf rather than install an irrigation system.
You mean "Discreet". That spelling means "quiet" or "secret". The other spelling, "discrete", means "singular", or "individual". Discrete components are individual components, not integrated into chips. A discreet antenna is one that's hard to see or notice.
RANDALLOLOGY Problem IS THAT... when you sign on to the dotted line and buy in an HOA you AGREE IN WRITING to WAIVE most of your constitutional rights. The courts will back the HOA and its stupid rules almost every time.
When you move into an HOA you agree to the rules and regulations therein. Complaining about antenna restrictions thereafter are mute as you were informed and therefore you have “knowledge aforethought”... I.e. you were warned, too bad.
@@submarineradioman5535 agreed. I've never understood the notion of wanting to willingly check your rights at the entrance of the subdivision. Add insult to injury, you than have to PAY to be told what you can and can't do on what is supposedly your own property.
If the antenna is portable and temporary the HOA can’t do anything about it. I’ve had this go around with an HOA when I lived in Colorado. So set it up, have fun then pull it down when your done!
Not to be a complete d-head... but merely a partial one... I've gotta brag. I used my '2' high 40m EFHW Wonder Wire' antenna and worked OL725PLZ as my first contact. lol. That's one discrete 'antenna' if you wanna call a wire that's 2' high an antenna :)
You are a real Baofeng. Why don't you get onto the HOA board? So easy, and then just watch how the other board members act. See who has their fingers in the HOA funds. Everything will be a lot better for you once you're on the board.
@@HamRadioConcepts Sorry about that, it seems funny at the time. But Baofeng ownership seems to be all over the hobby. So many folks on the GMRS side are using them. Real, fake, type certified, and not, even blue ones Parents are going to be naming their new borns Baofeng. Soon a sign of being a real man is to have a Baofeng tattoo across their chest or even a sleeve! Anyway, I enjoyed your video, keep up the good work.
legally Hoa's can't stop you from installing a tower. There's some federal regulation protecting ham users. - I'm not that up to date as I will never live in a hoa.
boxingday Yes, if only Kenwood Icom and Yaesu would listen to us and make he radios WE want to buy. Every time I get an HRO catalog its the same blah blah blah dual bander dressed up in a new cabinet. Otherwise I would agree with you.
Why cant the ham community build their own you know get the tech and 3d printer guys involved machinists and guys with laser cutters or get enough people together a make a stink about it maybe they will listen
If you have any problem with your HOA, they have no right to stop you. Here's a link to a video to an amateur radio operator who set up an antenna that pissed the neighbors off and the HOA had no authority to force him to take it down. FCC rules trump local ordinances and HOA restrictions. ruclips.net/video/aC_EeWSKJII/видео.html
Well they can legitimately complain about anything in violation of HOA rules. Besides what if every homeowner set up a pole like that or whatever else. Community would look like crap.
@@bloodycrepe "Besides what if every homeowner set up a pole like that or whatever else. Community would look like crap." Really? People like you are why i could never be part of a HOA.
@@bloodycrepe It is a life mission for me to not live in a HOA oppressed neighborhood next to busybody control freaks like yourself. Not much of a Amateur Radio Operator, are you?
@@SSN515 Not displaying an American flag, they can't. Only if it endangers the public (like using a rotten wooden pole, or one that is poorly mounted).
@@SSN515 Where did you get such a bizarre idea? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_Display_the_American_Flag_Act_of_2005 "The Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2005 (Pub.L. 109-243, 120 Stat. 572, enacted July 24, 2006) is an Act of Congress that prohibits real estate management organizations from restricting homeowners from displaying the flag of the United States on their property." Also www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/can-your-hoa-prohibit-you-from-flying-your-favorite-flag.html "If the flag your HOA is prohibiting is the good old stars and stripes, the HOA is probably out of line. Your right to display the United States flag is protected by federal law. The “Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2005” makes it illegal for an HOA to restrict owners from displaying a U.S. flag." "Your HOA can, however, reasonably restrict the time, place, and manner of your flag display (provided the restrictions are to protect a substantial interest of the association). For example, your HOA can ban a U.S. flag that might be a danger, such as one on a rickety flagpole over a public sidewalk. The HOA probably also has the right to prohibit a flag so large it blocks a neighbor’s views."
That's why I don't and wouldn't buy in a HOA. There too many little old busy bodies peeping out their blinds just looking for something they can squeal to the HOA gestapo. If they complain about it ask them if they had a licence to listen to you. If they say they didn't tell them they could go to prison if they continue.
Are you incognito with your sunglasses in case a fellow HOA member sees you?
No, actually I have one eye, I lost the other one in a BB gun incident several years ago. I am playing with antennas with radials that could potentially blind me if I am not careful and I always wear glasses outside to protect the only eye I have left in the event a neighbors kid is playing with a slingshot.. Is there any other reasons I can provide?
HamRadioConcepts Nope.
HamRadioConcepts are you kidding? Omg I’m so sorry!
Hey, 2 people is way less than 10. :) :)
@@HamRadioConcepts shit bro you answered my long time question that i never wanted to ask! nothing but love!
We used the same type of “fold and collapse” antenna with the “PRC” series of radios in Vietnam in the 70’s... concept and design is over 50 years old...
We had a ground plane for our prc77,1970👋🖖
I hear answering your door with an AK and body armor gives you the ability to do whatever you want in a hoa
Lower noise compared to dipole in the attic.....I'm impressed. Better than a loop. Easy setup and take down....made with quality materials....thumbs up. The only problem I have would be if I forgot to disconnect and move the coax before the landscapers come and run over it. Thanks Eric and John.
Outstanding video!! I too live in an HOA, and my Chameleon Hybrid mini has been a life saver! It mounts virtually anywhere and quickly.
Here's a tip: go to military surplus places and get field phone wire. It has steel and silver plated copper wires inside. It is a twisted pair, incredibly strong and weather resistant. No need for fancy PTFE stuff.
I have nearly the same setup except I have the stainless steel "Jaws of Death" adjustable clamp. I have the original antenna with the shock cord and aluminum ferrules. With the original antenna it's good practice to wipe the connecting joints clean and use a dielectric compound like Noalox every couple of months. I'll have to get me that spike/grounding device. These antennas work! W0YVY 73
NOQIC HERB MY BIRTHDAY IS 3-22-1944 SENCE YOU ARE GIVING BOTH OF THE QUAD AND THE 8 BAND ANT LOVE TO HAVE THEM..THANKS 73S YOU ARE ALL GREAT SOUND AND VEDIO
Definitely looks like a quality product!
Looks to be a very nice antenna and I can't really see the HOA saying much about it nor anybody really seeing it. It's nice they are using quality parts as well. Thanks for sharing it Eric! 73
HOAs are real rectal orifices sometimes. There are some who will complain that your vehicle is too old if it's more than 7 years old.
@@dieselscience Oh yeah I know, I actually live in a HOA. haha
@@dieselscience: Jay Leno would be in constant trouble for parking one of his classics in his drive.
@@keithnichols7926 Exactly
Looks great. Just watch out for lawn sprinkler lines with that mounting spike. LOL
My father was w9fiu and eventually I'm going to run across his SignalOne radio that's so nice that only 5 were made.
I had the military version years ago. worked good and very rugged.
I want to buy everything you review. I don't have that much money. Great review!!!!
That's good stuff. I'm sold on this antenna.
Over 5 hundy... would definately experiment first... great video, and thanks for your time!
Here is an idea,
I would use screw-in type insulators, what we used in the old days to keep TV 300 ohm ribbon line away from eaves on the house, AND then string the wire around the entire home.
A thin wire say 20ga or even magnet wire is invisible! and feed it at your window to act like a "cloud warmer" or closed loop. Although it is not high, this antenna has proven results.
(with an antenna tuner)
I have used this in the past, about 20 years ago when I was in an apartment and it worked great! but then again the activity was great and sunspots were at a high level. BUT I would give this a try.
Just my 2-cents, 73 DE KD6SBR Tom in NV
Great Video. I am really considering getting back into Ham radio, as I'm looking at the IC-7300 and need an antenna that is portable, or just have some fun around the house. I don't live in a HOA community, but like the convenience of the Chameleon MPAS 2.0. Thanks for sharing. Dave
I ordered a IC-7300 from Gigaparts last week. Gonna be home for 4-6 weeks so a good time to learn a new radio.
Has anyone seen any data pertaining to noise generated by buried power cables? Could buried cables effect our ground planes?
I can see that you are truly convinced about your antenna. Congratulations! Julian OH8STN also uses Chameleon antennas up in very cold Scandinavia. For people with some extra cash on hand, I am sure this would be a good antenna. I have to do amateur radio on a tight budget, so I will have to pass on this for now.
I understand.....
@@HamRadioConcepts I do have end fed halfwave antennas for a couple of bands. I hang them vertically on fiberglass masts. The efhwa for 20 meters hangs great from a 12 meter spiderbeam mast. I tape the wire to the mast using cheap masking tape. For temporary ops this works fine. I put the mast in a 1 meter long pvc pipe. I stake out the pvc pipe using 3 or 4 tent pegs and some cordage. Even with the 12 meter mast, the whole thing stands very stable, even in winds up to 70kmh. I have also made an inverted "V" dipole for 20 meters and use only an 8 meter telescope fishing pole (squid pole) and a much narrower diameter pvc pipe. The other endfeds for 15, 10 and 6 meters hang great vertically from this kine of mast. With practice, I'm certain people could set this up in under 10 minutes. I use speaker wire and cheap, lightweight 1:1 baluns (commercially purchased). The antennas handle 100 watts. I don't need to use any kind of tuner. SWR and other specs are very good.
20 meters and upper bands are daytime bands, so putting the antenna up at night would not do much good.
Put a US flag on the mast and call it a flagpole. Let the HOA try to litigate that. HOA can only object if pole hangs out over sidewalk and/or is dangerous and could injure someone.
HOA’s Are nuts I can understand some of the rules but so many of them go overboard we have to ask permission to open your front door and leave for the day. I would never ever complain about somebody putting something temporary up as a hobby just to have a little bit of fun for the afternoon.
Mike The Wood Worker Absolutely! At my mom's place in Florida all potted outdoor plants must be licensed. Pots are size restricted and the license is not transferable if you sell your property to a new owner. Yes HOA s are nuts !
My Ho'Ah President lives directly behind my house. He rode my arse in 2005 for having an antenna he thought was eavesdropping his wireless phone calls. Also I was bleeding into his baby monitor and surround sound. For that reason, now legal with a General and off the 11m band, I need to ease into amateur radio. This antenna looks just right for me. So does the 7300. Why buy a 60ft tower and a $2k radio only to find I'm pissing off the neighbor, again. Any advice Eric on harmonics? Do any of your neighbors complain?
Eric !! Help him find that damn noise with that groovy satellite noise cone!!
that would be a good video and fixing it we would appreciate it .7 3
Eric, thank you for all your videos. They are very informative. I also live in an HOA and need something portable and easy to put up and take down. I am planning to purchase the Yaesu FT891 and use this antenna with it. My question is, should I consider a tuner for the MPAS 2.0?
Looks like military done bought up all of them.... backordered everywhere. Gigaparts also backordered with restock unknown.
I have the MPAS 1.0 and from the Chicago suburbs outside my condo, similar to your buddy’s condo, I was reaching throughout the the Caribbean on a DX contest last weekend. BTW, explain what was in the Gatorbox, please, I’ve thought about putting my 7300 in a 4u shallow with my LDG IT-100 and maybe a small BHI speaker.
I explained it in this next video that I just finished i will upload in a couple days
Dammit, why did I click on this? My wife is still mad about the wolf river coil I just got, and now I REALLY want the MPAS.
I have both. The Wolf River coil is a nice tunable antenna. But my MPAS, even though it requires a tuner, is my go to. Crazy quick and easy to deploy and take down with great results.
FLPete I have a Wolf River Coils TIA, just using this 3 included radials.. is the chameleon much better??
I've spent a couple years tackling the HOA/Apartment Gestapo, and I've finally found a way to beat it. I'm using an ICOM IC-7100 with the control head connected to a Remote Rig box. The RR is connected to my apartment wifi. The other RR is in my car, which is also connected my aparment wifi, about a good 30 feet away from the building. The RR in the car is connected to the ICOM 7100 base. This is where it gets interesting - I have the base connected to a tarheel and a screwdriver motor controller. Finally I have a MFJ 17 foot whip on top of the tarheel. I can tune 6-80 meters from inside my apartment! Now the really interesting problem of power - the base is connected to a 20ah bioenno LiFe battery which supplies plenty to do 100 watts. The problem is how do I keep it charged? I could charge thru the car battery, but I have to waste gas to do so. The final touch to the system is a 14 watt rollable solar panel/charg controller on top of my car roof, providing plenty of top off charge for the bioenno (Florida sun doesnt hurt either!) Great prepper setup as well as I simply can bring the ICOM control head down to the car to provide emergency comms. This would work in any HOA as well. Let them bitch about a 17 foot antenna on the car - sorry HOA, I've never seen a rule about car antennas - WINNING!
I was extremely lucky to find the antenna mast that replaced the military's 292 at an army navy store. Stolen at 100 bucks! Only trouble is mine takes some time, space and multiple guy wires. Hate to say it, if I had 600 bucks to spend, I would buy it in a heartbeat!
I wouldn't live in an HOA developement even if I was not a ham. Whiny neighbors and little king administrators.
Years back I had a dispute about a CB antenna with my HOA so I built a linear actuated antenna and mounted it up on the roof in the middle of the night. I only used it late at night so when I wanted to talk I simply hit the switch and erected the antenna after dark and retracted it before daylight ;)
They are all watching you guys out there and probably now know that you are up to mischief. I tried putting a dipole along my parapet roof wall and I was turned in by an old lady that did nothing but stare out the window all day. Apparently also around midnight. KK7T.
Stephen Taylor I have one of those across the street from me. Never married, it’s her job in life to make life miserable for others. She was walking along the sidewalk & pulled up dead flowers around my mailbox.
If it's good enough for you it's good enough for me. Definitely on my list for this year! Or next year 🙃
It's not clear to me at John's QTH what he actually owns vs what is "common" or "jointly owned" HOA property. How much, if anything, of that grassed area that he referred to as his backyard does actually own?
HOA rules apply to anything outdoors including your own property
Can you have longer run of coaxil for this antenna? Like 250-300ft? Would that affect the feed?
How does that IC-7300 work when the voltage starts sagging on your battery? I have an IC-7000 that is really nice, but very picky about voltage.
De Kb0slc
Looks great!! Thanks for sharing the information!! Does it need a external tuner or any addition radials? 73
I have the same mil top portion AT-271 antenna I use one on my AN/PRC-104 very nice
Thank you for the video
Great video. Now I am gonna have to go out and order one of these. My only problem is trying to figure out how to put it into the ground. No New York City Park, like Central Park, allows for sticking things into the ground. But I might be able to make the antenna invisible by placing it near trees. Thanks again for the video.
5 gallon bucket fulled with play sand
Just bought one of these not tried it yet.
But now we are isolating because of the virus I will give it a try does the tree cause any problems to the signal.
Keep well and stay safe.
Alan in the UK ( England ).
the tree doesnt really cause any problems, maybe if the tree is full of leaves and wet? Wonder what that would do
Wasn't there a Federal Law overriding HOA and Antenna's or was that just for Counties?
Exactly. The FCC laws override HOAs. Now, I wouldn’t consider putting a tower up in an HOA, but if someone is going to complain about a wire antenna like this one, I would say “see you in court”!
What's dumb is that HOAs complain about a metal stick in the yard, but they don't complain about the gas meter, circuit breaker box, cable tv coax, roof vent pipes, or even power lines in neighborhoods that don't have underground electrical wiring.
Our subdivision does not have the larger side lot areas as in Florida. Could this antenna be mounted on the rear downspout with stand off to keep the antenna from touching the downspout.
Eric, seeing how this antenna is so effective as a vertical, why might one ever need to configure it any other way (sloper, etc.)?
Very interested in your upcoming video on the VHF/UHF add on for 2M/70CM. Really a complete package.
I've never been interested in radio until the COVID-19 scare reared it's ugly head. Now I can see there's so much more to it! I'm learning a little at a time but with computer connect-ability it looks like a very practical and fun skill to learn.
I have a very restrictive association, I set up every weekend, on my porch, with my home made 6 ft diameter magnetic loop on a tripod 5 ft off the ground and operate my IC 7300 from battery or shore power and work 75 meters and 40 meters, I check into the 3952 khz Western public service system net and on 7156 khz on ZS3D Dannie list operating 90 watts and works decent considering how ridiculously small relatively compared to what others use. I use a 9kv to 10kv Caldwell, air variable capacitor I bought on ebay for $70 and an octagon shaped 1 1/4" pvc & 2" copper tape wrapped loop. 73's de N7XO from Sin City
Thanks for this review. I live in a hoa development and our covenant mentions ham radio antennas. I also have some noise generated in my house and if I could get the antenna out away from the house that would be a big help. How can I support your channel and maybe get one of your cool shirts? Jack Martin
Thanks for a great video
That antenna is great for a HOA, not so great for us apartment dwellers who can't put anything outside. I wish I could afford a loop. It would be better than all of the wire that I have mounted to my ceiling.
Eric.. what time in UTC were the contacts on 14mhz made? tnx
i just ordered mine from dx engineering should go well with my ic705 when i get it
So - if buying the IC705, WHICH backpack to purchase? Icom’s or Chameleon’s or both?
well i plan on putting the 705 in the cha backback. But the cha comes with the backpack however that icom backpack is super cool
No matter WHAT hobby or interest people have, some will always whine, moan and complain about the price of quality items.
The spike makes it work for an HOA.
Why don't HOAs embrace these. At least one or 2 per neighborhood. Emergency comms director!!!
Noob HF question...So how does this perform when most of the traffic on HF is horizontally polarized? Since this is vertical, will I miss most/a lot of the HF traffic or doesn't it really matter?
Polarization doesn't matter for HF. 73 de KF7VUT.
Once you get a skip off the ionosphere the polarization becomes random.
If I was in a HOA like that I would find a bunch of none conductive plastic or rubber leaves and attach them. In AZ I have seen cell towers that look like a cactus.
Landscapers will run it over or just take it down themselves
@@bloodycrepe I don't think landscapers will come on your property like that without you knowing about it.
@@StanCook why do you think the grass in this video is mowed and cared for? They come in at least twice a month.
@@bloodycrepe My grass is neat and trim and I do it once a week. I live in an HOA but I own my home like anyone else. Just because you have an HOA where you live it does not mean it is a townhouse type area where they take care of your yard. and that one does not. Either way, he wants to hide it when it is up. Just a thought, that is all.
@@StanCook fair point. However grass looks like it's levelled throughout multiple properties that makes me think it was done via HOA contractor on same day. I could be wrong. OP can respond. OP was also sticking antenna closer to neighbors house than his. If this property is zoned he could have been trespassing. Possibly best place for it would be in the back out of everyone's view. I live in HOA myself and violate rules behind the house where no one can see it.
This antenna sould work well on 20m and above, but on 40 or even 30m would be very inefficient and forget anything on 80m. but have seen some get good success on 20m. Get any antenna long enough, at least 1/4 wavelength and it can perform. SWR only means getting power into the radiator, how it performs is totally different issue. From the video the signals were S2-3, not very strong and they were at times giving 59, a joke.
My MPAS 2.0 has been on back order for about a month now.
That is probably my fault i would imagine, LOL, they probably had no idea I was making videos on it, and no way to prepare so it must have buried them. That same thing happened with that Nano-spot hotspot years ago.
I just ordered one from R&L Electronics on Friday and it will be delivered on Wednesday. It was cheaper than other Distributors had it listed for as well.
I would try the HiEndFed QRP antenna strung up in the trees. Easy to put up and take down and is very discreet.
Any discount code?
I couldn't put that up in my Condo complex, it's way too visible.
Can ask what a "HOA" is, I assume it's rented accommodation? I'm in the U.K.
Home Owners Association. And they suck. I'll never live in one. They set the rules and you basically have no rights to do anything. I'd rather live in the woods than to deal with those kind of people.
It stands for Homeowners Association. A homeowners association (HOA) is an organization in a subdivision, planned community or condominium that makes and enforces rules for the properties and their residents. Those who purchase property within an HOA's jurisdiction automatically become members and are required to pay dues, known as HOA fees. Some associations can be very restrictive about what members can do with their properties. Something I could never be a part of.
Home Owners Association. HOA. When you buy a house, it comes with an agreement that you must follow all the HOA rules. Such as not repairing your pickup in the front yard, what color you can paint your house or doors, NO outside antennas, NO towers, etc.
KENT HUFFORD thanks, wow, sounds really annul, thought it was restrictive in the U.K. but that sounds tough.
Living in a house in an HOA is no inconvenience if you don't aim to alter your property drastically and agree with the other restrictions, such as what you may park in your driveway and how many ceramic flamingos can populate your lawn. Some HOAs provide lawn-care services, which suits me fine, as I have no interest in lawns or their care.
But $600 for an amtenna?? I need that mo eye for the ic705
Ouch. I was thinking about getting into HF and the 7300 is the most popular unit. Saw this video and antenna. Said that might work for my situation since I won't put up a permanent , clicked the link and said that killed my plans for now.
Can't justify paying that at the moment.
@@dwayne5530 build an antenna. A simple wire end fed can be build for very cheap. Buy an unun or build one, get some coax, and off you go.
@@dwayne5530 Would you be better off buying a cheap 2nd hand radio such as the Yaesu FT-450D ? spend more on Antennas. The MPAS 2.0 is expensive but seems to work very well and you can use it as a base antenna + portable, that's pretty cool.
I'm not sure of any other vertical antenna that is so stealthy, easy to setup and can work multiple bands with decent swr with which any modern radio should be able to flatten out.
Myantennas.com EFHW 8010, 40 meters long and is resonant on multiple bands without a tuner except for me the higher portion of 80m above 3750 Khz, 80 m here in Europe ends at 3800 so no big deal, the tuner flattens the 2.5:1 swr out. I have mine installed up high in a N/S E/W config. Get great DX + NVIS.
EFHW with 49:1 UNUN work really well, mostly no tuner needed except for maybe some of 80m as with my installation. Resonant on multiple bands, no radials, coax is the only counterpoise needed. Good ground and you're good to go.
Hyendfed.nl make these too only they have the option to select where you want 80m to be resonant, higher or lower portion of 80m. They also make a 23 meter long EFHW with a coil for 80m and it works pretty well, bandwidth is limited on 80m but well within any modern radio tuner, it can be shortened too to get the desired SWR.
Random wires with 9:1 UNUN need radials and tuner to work, the EFHW with 49:1 does not and is much easier to setup.
I would not bother building these as getting all the bands in resonance can be very tricky, they don't cost a lot either.
the MPAS 2.0 is a good antenna, SWR is decent across all bands and it gets out well, can be used as base antenna and taken portable, that's pretty cool. Expensive but I am not aware of a vertical antenna that is so easy to take down and set up with good SWR on all bands that doesn't require re-tuning at the antenna which means running in and out at every band change.
'out of stock' now...your video convinced everybody apparently:)
another quick question, what antenna tuner are you planning to use with this antenna connected to the ic-705 please? 73 from Belgium
Wire antennas are cheap and harder to see. Granted, you have to actually do some research to get em just right, but for 700USD, you can build one HELL of an antenna or several antennas that will likely outperform this ground mounted vertical.
Agreed. $600 for a pole sounds insane to me
DX Commander for about $200.00
@@americaswayout4489 that looks great, thanks!
Inspiring ....
I would string a lightweight nearly invisible end fed wire from the house to one of those trees. Most the type of people who would complain probably can't see it anyway.
Put it up beside the Evergreen tree and you would never see it. I bet no one would notice if you put it up top of the tree during the night. out of a a palm tree. Never see it unless you pointed it out to someone. Sounds like an advert!
7:53 the bands are dead LOL
Has anyone tried adding the CHA TACHAT Loop to the MPAS? They claim it makes a big difference so interested.
Okay I just ordered one so will report back on this thread in the future and pass along my experience. Also order the four pack of additional counterpoise.
Why the blazes do people even move into HOA controlled properties? I've never understood the reasoning.
John Puplic Well, they do attempt to keep the neighborhood from going to heck in a hand basket, like cars up on blocks, etc.
i would check out the FCC'S OTARD rules which supersede your HOA, if your HOA is giving you any grief just directly them to the FCC's sit and also contact the FCC and let them know they are violating your rights. ... this rule is mostly designed for TV but they can apply to HAM's given its very broad stroke. im sure something related to the OTARD that can be used for HAMs as well. side note: years ago when i was stuck in an HOA i was always center of their attention, with my radios and drones and stuff, they backed way off when i told them that it was a form of censorship denying the right to use the radio...
The FCC rules for out door antennas in HOAs is limited to 1m size antennas, not something very big and was written to allow for Satellite and TV antennas. Is bill in Congress to expand it, but has been held up for couple years, once by our ex-Senator from FL, he lost election in 2018.
Use the wire for total stealth
I have this now this two years works fine .n3reb
Buddipole’s are not junk and built in the USA.
I didnt mean it like that, I know it sounded like that. What I meant was the people commenting that their Buddipole is the only one and everything else is Chinese overpriced junk, and I just spit the word buddi out. Didnt mean it like that, but thought noone would notice the way I phrased it.
HamRadioConcepts They are both great antennas. Sorry for the post I do enjoy your videos. 73, Kf7zvl
I’m a huge fan of the Chameleon Antennas! I have several of their products. I’ve had my eye on the Buddipole. A friend of mine was lucky enough to win one few months ago. I’m incredibly impressed with the build quality! There’s a lot of great engineering in action. The modular nature of it makes it really easy to extend the capabilities and to replace any parts if they get lost or damaged.
HOA nazis are joyless automotons. Good work guys.
John has on Fat Heads t-shirt. Pittsburgh, Southside tradition.
Nice video Eric. I have the Chameleon whip and I use it at my HOA Condo and it works fine but there is a lot of noise. My understanding is that man made noise is mostly vertically polarized and vertical antennas tend to pick up more man made noise than others (i.e., dipole, slopers). So, that's not the case? I also noticed he didn't set up any counterpoise wires (or did he)?. I know the metal stake is a grounding point but it's not ideal. I always use counterpoise wires. 73/KG7VCL
Well, you are correct however his situation required antennas in the attic which pull in noise to almost S8-S9, so being outside with the vertical is ten times better than in his attic, as you couldnt hear any of these stations in the attic.
Yes he ran the counterpoise wire out, you always have to have the counterpoise out..
What aspect of antennas do HOAs object to? Just the appearance? In the Dallas area, HOAs make news by ridiculous regulations. One of them made someone take down a 20-foot flagpole from which flew the American flag. Then there was the guy who got gigged for replacing his natural lawn with astroturf rather than install an irrigation system.
You mean "Discreet". That spelling means "quiet" or "secret". The other spelling, "discrete", means "singular", or "individual". Discrete components are individual components, not integrated into chips. A discreet antenna is one that's hard to see or notice.
Just changed it. Thanks for the info.. 73
Mount a reel on it and it definitely doesn't look like an antenna.
Ok , Ham Radio falls under Home Land Security. Looks like that should over ride any HOA b.s. rules .
RANDALLOLOGY Problem IS THAT... when you sign on to the dotted line and buy in an HOA you AGREE IN WRITING to WAIVE most of your constitutional rights. The courts will back the HOA and its stupid rules almost every time.
I painted mine FLAT MILITARY GREEN. It is nearly invisible.....73 de AA0AL
Step one, never move into an HOA.
When you move into an HOA you agree to the rules and regulations therein. Complaining about antenna restrictions thereafter are mute as you were informed and therefore you have “knowledge aforethought”... I.e. you were warned, too bad.
@@submarineradioman5535 agreed. I've never understood the notion of wanting to willingly check your rights at the entrance of the subdivision. Add insult to injury, you than have to PAY to be told what you can and can't do on what is supposedly your own property.
If the antenna is portable and temporary the HOA can’t do anything about it. I’ve had this go around with an HOA when I lived in Colorado. So set it up, have fun then pull it down when your done!
Not to be a complete d-head... but merely a partial one... I've gotta brag. I used my '2' high 40m EFHW Wonder Wire' antenna and worked OL725PLZ as my first contact. lol. That's one discrete 'antenna' if you wanna call a wire that's 2' high an antenna :)
Cool. What is OL725PLZ??
@@HamRadioConcepts lol. I've had people tell me "too many letters". It's a special event station in the Czech Republic. 73 OM
You are a real Baofeng. Why don't you get onto the HOA board? So easy, and then just watch how the other board members act. See who has their fingers in the HOA funds. Everything will be a lot better for you once you're on the board.
Permission to call others a baofeng... I never thought of using that as context LOL!
@@HamRadioConcepts Sorry about that, it seems funny at the time. But Baofeng ownership seems to be all over the hobby. So many folks on the GMRS side are using them. Real, fake, type certified, and not, even blue ones Parents are going to be naming their new borns Baofeng. Soon a sign of being a real man is to have a Baofeng tattoo across their chest or even a sleeve! Anyway, I enjoyed your video, keep up the good work.
legally Hoa's can't stop you from installing a tower. There's some federal regulation protecting ham users. - I'm not that up to date as I will never live in a hoa.
Impossible......the bands are dead!
Just a quick note, all us hams, need to stop buying Chinese radio gear ! It's cheap sh-t , and they gave us the virus in return for our custom.
boxingday Yes, if only Kenwood Icom and Yaesu would listen to us and make he radios WE want to buy. Every time I get an HRO catalog its the same blah blah blah dual bander dressed up in a new cabinet. Otherwise I would agree with you.
Why cant the ham community build their own you know get the tech and 3d printer guys involved machinists and guys with laser cutters or get enough people together a make a stink about it maybe they will listen
Put it right next to the tree.
If you have any problem with your HOA, they have no right to stop you. Here's a link to a video to an amateur radio operator who set up an antenna that pissed the neighbors off and the HOA had no authority to force him to take it down. FCC rules trump local ordinances and HOA restrictions.
ruclips.net/video/aC_EeWSKJII/видео.html
I will never live in a HOA. Don't like people telling me what I can and cannot do with my property.
one question WHY live where a pack of dogooders rukle th roost
HamRadioConcepts ,
RUclips Channel: Leeland Jones; Census 2020. NOW!
Why in the world would anyone complain about that antenna?
It's very expensive.
Well they can legitimately complain about anything in violation of HOA rules. Besides what if every homeowner set up a pole like that or whatever else. Community would look like crap.
@@bloodycrepe "Besides what if every homeowner set up a pole like that or whatever else. Community would look like crap."
Really? People like you are why i could never be part of a HOA.
@@scottjohnson3226 great to hear I won't have inconsiderate neighbor like you
@@bloodycrepe It is a life mission for me to not live in a HOA oppressed neighborhood next to busybody control freaks like yourself. Not much of a Amateur Radio Operator, are you?
Put an American flag on the antenna. US law allows you to fly the flag. HOA can't forbid it.
Actually, they can.
@@SSN515 Not displaying an American flag, they can't. Only if it endangers the public (like using a rotten wooden pole, or one that is poorly mounted).
@@mumi009They can under case law. They rule the American flag as a racist hate symbol if the community protests it as such and the HOA agrees.
@@mumi009 Welcome to America, 2020
@@SSN515 Where did you get such a bizarre idea?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_Display_the_American_Flag_Act_of_2005
"The Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2005 (Pub.L. 109-243, 120 Stat. 572, enacted July 24, 2006) is an Act of Congress that prohibits real estate management organizations from restricting homeowners from displaying the flag of the United States on their property."
Also
www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/can-your-hoa-prohibit-you-from-flying-your-favorite-flag.html
"If the flag your HOA is prohibiting is the good old stars and stripes, the HOA is probably out of line. Your right to display the United States flag is protected by federal law. The “Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2005” makes it illegal for an HOA to restrict owners from displaying a U.S. flag."
"Your HOA can, however, reasonably restrict the time, place, and manner of your flag display (provided the restrictions are to protect a substantial interest of the association). For example, your HOA can ban a U.S. flag that might be a danger, such as one on a rickety flagpole over a public sidewalk. The HOA probably also has the right to prohibit a flag so large it blocks a neighbor’s views."
That's why I don't and wouldn't buy in a HOA. There too many little old busy bodies peeping out their blinds just looking for something they can squeal to the HOA gestapo.
If they complain about it ask them if they had a licence to listen to you. If they say they didn't tell them they could go to prison if they continue.