You are talking about living in the basement but as Swede, living in darkness for 6months of the year, this is a god sent. I want this in every room, lit from 7am to 7pm.
40k a pop pretty much means this company's guaranteed to go bankrupt lmao. Why? Simple: If you can afford to pay 40k for a synthetic skylight, well, you can just go buy a place that has a real one.
I love how they not only developed it for aesthetic reasons but for health reasons too. And the idea of preventing depression once when earthscrapers catch on is great. I wonder how it feels to see this sun illusion. Is it warm also? Since it's their near duplication of natural light, I would love to see this in person.
It's an LED, so by default it'll be not very warm because it's more efficient (it's also likely a few thousand times less intense). Using a higher power less efficient light source might boost the 'sunny' effect, but then you'd have to worry about cooling the device so it doesn't start melting stuff.
It's a bummer that this thing costs 40'000$, I would gladly rearrange my whole ceiling to make an impression that there are a sun above my apartment. Would be a great thing to meet ever morning with a sunlight. Wake me up when it's a lightbulb for 30 bucks.
@@Gigatless www.rona.ca/en/artika-for-living-light-panel-steel-47-3-4-x-118-white-flp14t-08325190?viewStore=61740&cq_src=google_ads&cq_cmp=8143180939&cq_con=88023293407&cq_term=&cq_med=&cq_plac=&cq_net=u&cq_pos=&cq_plt=gp&&cm_mmc=shopping_google-_-8143180939-_-88023293407-_-pla-391330391233&gclid=CjwKCAjwqML6BRAHEiwAdquMne0didQT3ENIgQuv0ov6w8RaqbooRMXIrffKlPvuSbBJsRjp-Gh4QxoCXtwQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds Or Google LED skylight panel or similar since I don't know if you're in canada. Even some options on Amazon!
I've recycled broken flat screen TVs and turned them into skylight's just like this. Every flat screen monitor has multiple layers of reflective transparent diffusers. Again, REFLECTIVE transparent. It throws light out and renders the illusion of sunlight. Give it a try, it's like playing with alien tech. Your phones screen that you're looking at right now has it behind the layer of LCD. Your phone's screen is lit from ONE side, usually the bottom, and with these reflective transparent layers, light is distributed perfectly evenly across your screen. To imitate a sun effect, just add a Halo led in the center somewhere. I don't use compressed argon gas like what's used in double glazed windows tho.
What stumps me is how they get a perfect sunbeam, is that a separate high cri led? How does it make it through the diffused panels without getting diffused?
My question... Does the light source MOVE... by that I mean does the light always stay shine on the one wall or does it, as in real life, move across the space? If it does not move, it will mess with the occupants perception of time.
The light source doesn't move, although the skylight is available with the light source at a range of different angles to mimic the sun at different latitudes. Making it move (and making the brightness and colour temperature change during the day) like the real sun would be obvious improvements to make for future versions. More details here: luxreview.com/news/515/coelux-wows-attendees-at-luxlive
+Lux Magazine This is truly one of the most amazing inventions I have heard of. Imagine you implement this in underground bunkers. You could also use Flexible OLED screen panels placed behind artificial windowscreens with real moving objects and binaural sounds in order to duplicate the real feeling of a normal house (if the scenery adapts itself to rain, sun, wind, snow without changing the "real world").
I'm skeptical of how this will really look. From the video and photo's I've seen, I can't tell if I'm looking at a computer generation, or a mockup room that has a real skylight and sunlight. Until they can show me a standalone unit not installed giving off directional light against a wall and turn it off/on on video ...... You know what they say about things that look too good to be true ....
There's no shortage of sunlight in space (that's one of the great reasons for going!) - but when one is stuck to a rock, such as the Moon, then a fortnight-long night will indeed drag.
James Garry The questin is - how visible light spectrum in space compares to sunlight here on Earth (filtered by atmosphere). And how does it affect circadian rhythm in living organisms that are sensitive to particular wavelenghts of visible light. The devil is in the details ;) I think this type of illumination will be mandatory on deep space spaceships to sustain proper health and sanity of crew on long distance travels.
kamilk Raw sunlight is far richer in near-UV light than on Earth - but nobody in their right mind experiences unfiltered sunlight (put the helmet _back on_...) So it's fairly straight forward to mimic terrestrial daylight. Nothing on Earth has evolved to care about
Just use the led or even ccfl from old flat panel of whatever size you'd like... Combine that with its diffuser, leave out the display panel... And you won't get the blue, but what you'll get is a low power consumption, yet extremely high power visual output... While also a soft, natural looking light that any / everyone would mistake for a real skylight.... Essentially free short of your time crafting the frame / doing drywall work... But beyond that, it's just as good as this idea... And basically free. With far lower consumption than just about anything.
I wonder if this type of tech could have an effect on the numbers wearing glasses. I've read somewhere recently that the lack of red light (due to too much time indoors) is the real cause for myopia.
I have seen it in Como...It's amazing. It's like real light of a mediterranean city. I want it for my home. I want turn on the real light during a rainy day in Milan where I live so I can imagine to be in a shining day in Naples where I was born.
I would imagine that this could really help with mental stresses from being in an enclosed space for long periods of time. Perhaps it could be implemented on a long term space voyage to help the crew mentally.
Imagine a full ceiling like this inside a hotel, with small puffy white clouds projected onto the ceiling, as if you are at the beach... I am in love with this invention of yours
I wonder if this will have a positive effect for distant space travel. Maybe they can have this on spacecraft to simulate still being on earth under blue skies. For the first manned trip to Mars I'm sure it will be helpful.
It uses 340W of power, so the equivalent of about 7-10 halogen bulbs, or about 35-50 LED ones. Not sure what the light output in lumens is, which would give you the efficacy in lumens per watt. More details here: luxreview.com/news/515/coelux-wows-attendees-at-luxlive
I'm not going to pretend I understand the science behind this, but this is absolutely amazing! For someone like me who works swing shift and sleeps during the day usually and is up all night I really miss the sun at times. Can't wait until this is an actual thing for consumers.
It uses a special type of Fresnel lens, I know exactly how this is made based off of observation, so I'll most likely be making my own in the future. Nice technology but insanely over priced, the most expensive part would be the main large led, those aren't cheap.
@@dited358 you're actually wrong, no fresnel lenses. This tech is based on both micro optics (a way more complex than just lenses) but especially on nanotechs, in fact that glass you see it's a solid version of Earth's atmosphere and it behaves exactly like Earth's atmo when interacting with Sunlight coming from space - rayleigh scattering, spectrum filtering etc., - basically this tech reproduce the physics of daylight on our planet (mars atmo chemical composition is different ie, thus its daylight is different from earth's and "alien" to us!) --as per pricing this video is 6 yo now, the system you see was basically a proof of concept and yes costs like a car. Coelux new products developed in the meantime cost a fraction, say like a pro laptop. On DIY side, you surely can but you would most likely just replicate one of their early experiments in the uni lab 15 years ago!
Have it tap into local weather to determine actual weather conditions thus if it's raining/snowing,etc you will know just by looking at the window like you would with a natural window
We know that the sun emmits a light of a certain frequency spectrum that helps us to build vitamine d, which helps against depression. Does that light source do the same?
In addition to hospitals, I would like to see if there would be any effect of job productivity, especially in during the winter months or at night time. Looks pretty incredible..I wonder if you could get the light to move slowly replicating the movement of the sun.
The real question is, what is the spectrum of light that is produced and does it provide proper UVB, UVA for vitamin D3 production in humans and animals?
I want one sooo bad, and how about even better for windows on the wall, make them 3D sothat if you look at it at different directions,it will really looks like as if you watching the outside from a different angle!!!
I saw something like this on Aliexpress for €140. I wonder whether that looks a good as this. The light does look very natural with this one but $40K for a light. If buy a house in Spain with real sunlight for that money
Questions: - Will these become commercially available and affordable (price wise) to say the average IKEA customer? (at least in smaller sizes like 1sqm /1m2 - If so what time frame are we looking at before production is streamlined enough to get to that stage?
You are talking about living in the basement but as Swede, living in darkness for 6months of the year, this is a god sent. I want this in every room, lit from 7am to 7pm.
Hahaha yesssss. That's exactly what brought me back to this video
waiting for the $50 raspberry pi diy version
True!!
Bruh
@@theweirdshow2860 Time has come: ruclips.net/video/6bqBsHSwPgw/видео.html
@@dinoscheidt haha i wanted to post the same link :D
Already came. Soapy water, led behind it, and an aluminum taped satelite dish. A few hours of work and bam, you have what this video is showing.
When will this be accessible? I’ll buy 17
It is but it's around $70,000 for the smallest one
You can make it if you want for affordable price.
@@Gebri3l how?
@@user-lv4ok9vo5o look at a channel called @diyperks . He has done a couple of versions, but the most recent is pretty amazing!
@@Julian-ge3kl thanks!!!
Great now we can all move underground
It's also a lot more energy-efficient. Earth cools and insulates. Less power sucked up by AC and heating.
Esa Edvik and more energy for artificial lights everywhere
superpulvertoastboy It's an LED...
Except flooding would be catastrophic. Building below sea level is asking for trouble.
Jallenbah
You don't have to be below sea level if you're at high elevation to begin with.
40k a pop pretty much means this company's guaranteed to go bankrupt lmao.
Why?
Simple: If you can afford to pay 40k for a synthetic skylight, well, you can just go buy a place that has a real one.
I love how they not only developed it for aesthetic reasons but for health reasons too. And the idea of preventing depression once when earthscrapers catch on is great. I wonder how it feels to see this sun illusion. Is it warm also? Since it's their near duplication of natural light, I would love to see this in person.
Hello, I have the same effect but the price is much lower than the Coelux ($40,000). Are you interested?
It's an LED, so by default it'll be not very warm because it's more efficient (it's also likely a few thousand times less intense). Using a higher power less efficient light source might boost the 'sunny' effect, but then you'd have to worry about cooling the device so it doesn't start melting stuff.
Great now we can make the Truman Show.
BjarkeDuDe :))))
xD
It's a bummer that this thing costs 40'000$, I would gladly rearrange my whole ceiling to make an impression that there are a sun above my apartment. Would be a great thing to meet ever morning with a sunlight.
Wake me up when it's a lightbulb for 30 bucks.
I just want to see it in real life
Used to be that flat screens were 15K.
Hey it's a lightbulb for about $150 bucks now, getting there
@@stephlrideout any specific info?
@@Gigatless www.rona.ca/en/artika-for-living-light-panel-steel-47-3-4-x-118-white-flp14t-08325190?viewStore=61740&cq_src=google_ads&cq_cmp=8143180939&cq_con=88023293407&cq_term=&cq_med=&cq_plac=&cq_net=u&cq_pos=&cq_plt=gp&&cm_mmc=shopping_google-_-8143180939-_-88023293407-_-pla-391330391233&gclid=CjwKCAjwqML6BRAHEiwAdquMne0didQT3ENIgQuv0ov6w8RaqbooRMXIrffKlPvuSbBJsRjp-Gh4QxoCXtwQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Or Google LED skylight panel or similar since I don't know if you're in canada. Even some options on Amazon!
imagine the categories: Sunny, Cloudy, Rainy, Apocalyptic, hellish sky, gotham moonlight
Quarantine made my sleeping hours flip. Haven't seen a sunrise and mid noon since 3 months. Imagine how this would help for night shift workers.
What is hellish
@@rarebreed345 red sky, fast moving clouds under what seems to be astral runes, constellations which look like electro guitars.
Intense dynamic stary cosmos is what i'm keen for
This would be perfect for those depressing dark, snowy, gloomy regions.
Yes like my house
London
sweden
@@SamiLoft Hello, I have the same effect but the price is much lower than the Coelux ($40,000). Are you interested?
I've recycled broken flat screen TVs and turned them into skylight's just like this.
Every flat screen monitor has multiple layers of reflective transparent diffusers. Again, REFLECTIVE transparent. It throws light out and renders the illusion of sunlight. Give it a try, it's like playing with alien tech.
Your phones screen that you're looking at right now has it behind the layer of LCD.
Your phone's screen is lit from ONE side, usually the bottom, and with these reflective transparent layers, light is distributed perfectly evenly across your screen.
To imitate a sun effect, just add a Halo led in the center somewhere.
I don't use compressed argon gas like what's used in double glazed windows tho.
What stumps me is how they get a perfect sunbeam, is that a separate high cri led? How does it make it through the diffused panels without getting diffused?
8Bit0carina Yes, you’re correct. A separate high led directly behind the diffuser as apposed to the side where the majority of the leds are.
I want this for my daughters NYC apartment. Love love love this.
Dont exist anymore
4:39 "Basically this is a trick to convince your brain you are where you want to be". Haha that sums up modern industrial civilisation quite neatly.
My question...
Does the light source MOVE... by that I mean does the light always stay shine on the one wall or does it, as in real life, move across the space?
If it does not move, it will mess with the occupants perception of time.
Its just a special bulb shining through some special glass. Im sure someone could mechanise it to move or seomthing
The light source doesn't move, although the skylight is available with the light source at a range of different angles to mimic the sun at different latitudes. Making it move (and making the brightness and colour temperature change during the day) like the real sun would be obvious improvements to make for future versions. More details here: luxreview.com/news/515/coelux-wows-attendees-at-luxlive
Sounds perfect for casinos.
+waltgone I was wondering the same. If the light is always in the same angle, it won't be any natural.
+Lux Magazine This is truly one of the most amazing inventions I have heard of. Imagine you implement this in underground bunkers. You could also use Flexible OLED screen panels placed behind artificial windowscreens with real moving objects and binaural sounds in order to duplicate the real feeling of a normal house (if the scenery adapts itself to rain, sun, wind, snow without changing the "real world").
Does it feel warm to stand in the light? that would be perfect!
would be great to combine it with an infrared panel !
Is it warm?
wish there was a way to buy something like this that is prebuilt.
Remember how natural the lighting in portal 2 felt respite being set miles underground? This could make that a reality :P
Can it also simulate the Moon, Moonlight and stars?
This would be awesome for people living in basement apartments. 🥰👍
You will sell a truckload just in Norway alone.
At 70 000 a pop I doubt they'd sell even 1.
This is great. The light seems natural. But the sun also gives heat. Does this product also give out heat?
I'm skeptical of how this will really look. From the video and photo's I've seen, I can't tell if I'm looking at a computer generation, or a mockup room that has a real skylight and sunlight. Until they can show me a standalone unit not installed giving off directional light against a wall and turn it off/on on video ......
You know what they say about things that look too good to be true ....
I'm rich, simulate the Sun in every one of my pool rooms.
proof that money doesnt buy you brains
Hello, I have the same effect but only need about 2000 dollars of skylight. Are you interested?
If it follows the sun movement … would there be light at night ?
Put them on the walls/ceilings of International Space Station.
Astronauts would be happy to have at least small amount of Earth's daylight in space :)
There's no shortage of sunlight in space (that's one of the great reasons for going!) - but when one is stuck to a rock, such as the Moon, then a fortnight-long night will indeed drag.
James Garry
The questin is - how visible light spectrum in space compares to sunlight here on Earth (filtered by atmosphere). And how does it affect circadian rhythm in living organisms that are sensitive to particular wavelenghts of visible light.
The devil is in the details ;)
I think this type of illumination will be mandatory on deep space spaceships to sustain proper health and sanity of crew on long distance travels.
kamilk Raw sunlight is far richer in near-UV light than on Earth - but nobody in their right mind experiences unfiltered sunlight (put the helmet _back on_...)
So it's fairly straight forward to mimic terrestrial daylight. Nothing on Earth has evolved to care about
i can see box line form on at 4:15 on blue color
This could be a great treatment for seasonal depression during the winter months.
Is it cheaper to install than an actual skylight?
this is mindblowing
What happens if you put them in the floor?
Or a few walls!
:D
then the light shine from the floor... duh
How dope that would be!
That would be dizzying
Hilarious! ^^
This would be really useful northern communities where the daylight is extremely limited in winter.
When I picture the future, I see something like this.
Why is the device never shown outside the installation?
this is honestly amazing. =) Can't wait for it to be available for purchase
Hello, I have the same effect but the price is much lower than the Coelux ($40,000). Are you interested?
@@starrylight1149 I am interesting ! What is your price- where is possible to read about your invention or proposal ?
@@victoria-tokyo888 the price is 200usd.
@@victoria-tokyo888 RYOPT doesnt really has the effect its more like a blue softbox, all their advertising videos look like a render
I wonder if you can feel the heat from it like the sun.
I was wondering the same thing!
I was wondering too, but I don't think so a such thing will make closed rooms very hot quickly
Probably not. It's an energy efficient light source, which means there's little to none heat produced
I guess they could add a halogen type heating element which would only feel hot in the area of effect
LEDs emit almost no inferred light, so there would be no heat.
Just use the led or even ccfl from old flat panel of whatever size you'd like... Combine that with its diffuser, leave out the display panel... And you won't get the blue, but what you'll get is a low power consumption, yet extremely high power visual output... While also a soft, natural looking light that any / everyone would mistake for a real skylight.... Essentially free short of your time crafting the frame / doing drywall work... But beyond that, it's just as good as this idea... And basically free. With far lower consumption than just about anything.
I wonder if this type of tech could have an effect on the numbers wearing glasses. I've read somewhere recently that the lack of red light (due to too much time indoors) is the real cause for myopia.
my studio apartment has no windows I NEED THIS.
AMAZING!!
can be made better
Lol MiiMii...😅😂
That's random lol
Pirce?
I have seen it in Como...It's amazing. It's like real light of a mediterranean city. I want it for my home. I want turn on the real light during a rainy day in Milan where I live so I can imagine to be in a shining day in Naples where I was born.
Hello, I have the same effect but the price is much lower than the Coelux ($40,000). Are you interested?
We have this over los angeles county. Making time faster when its really 6pm but say its 8pm.
I would imagine that this could really help with mental stresses from being in an enclosed space for long periods of time. Perhaps it could be implemented on a long term space voyage to help the crew mentally.
So the compressed material replicated the firmament? (the blue ice studied in Antarctica.)
If you can afford that, this is the ultimate choice of lighting for indoor photography and videos.
Wonderful architectural development. Potential solutions for building interiors are almost limitless !
Imagine a full ceiling like this inside a hotel, with small puffy white clouds projected onto the ceiling, as if you are at the beach... I am in love with this invention of yours
Shut up and take my money!!!! When will this amazing light available for home users?
Civil engineers and architects could do some amazing things with this tech. Excited to see where it goes.
7 years later and not much happened
@@Avm371998 no you can even make one by your own
DIY perks made a video about this
@@nuntius1 but DIY perk is fake , not produce antural sunlight
@@skylight443 btw this is fake too. you just get a closer look at it with DIY lerks
@@nuntius1 subscribe me and find more details
Can you make an animation on how it works??
does it make your skin hot ?
Amazing for northern countries like Canada which are so often cloudy. :)
That's unreal. If it's anything like it seems here, that's amazing
It is, this breaktrough will change a huge deal of things :)
I wonder if this will have a positive effect for distant space travel. Maybe they can have this on spacecraft to simulate still being on earth under blue skies. For the first manned trip to Mars I'm sure it will be helpful.
What's the energy efficiency?
It uses 340W of power, so the equivalent of about 7-10 halogen bulbs, or about 35-50 LED ones. Not sure what the light output in lumens is, which would give you the efficacy in lumens per watt. More details here: luxreview.com/news/515/coelux-wows-attendees-at-luxlive
The link is broken i think
50W 🤤
It's gonna be kinda wierd having it turned on in the middle of the night! They should have a mode that sticks the moon up there with a few stars.
That will ofcourse be thought of as well.
The matter is now that this is a good application for everyone.
this is quite old but still the first time ive seen it. wonder what theyre doing now
I'm not going to pretend I understand the science behind this, but this is absolutely amazing! For someone like me who works swing shift and sleeps during the day usually and is up all night I really miss the sun at times. Can't wait until this is an actual thing for consumers.
Hello, I have the same effect but the price is much lower than the Coelux ($40,000). Are you interested?
Is there something I can read which would explain how it achieves the sense of depth of the sun?
It uses a special type of Fresnel lens, I know exactly how this is made based off of observation, so I'll most likely be making my own in the future. Nice technology but insanely over priced, the most expensive part would be the main large led, those aren't cheap.
@@dited358 you're actually wrong, no fresnel lenses. This tech is based on both micro optics (a way more complex than just lenses) but especially on nanotechs, in fact that glass you see it's a solid version of Earth's atmosphere and it behaves exactly like Earth's atmo when interacting with Sunlight coming from space - rayleigh scattering, spectrum filtering etc., - basically this tech reproduce the physics of daylight on our planet (mars atmo chemical composition is different ie, thus its daylight is different from earth's and "alien" to us!) --as per pricing this video is 6 yo now, the system you see was basically a proof of concept and yes costs like a car. Coelux new products developed in the meantime cost a fraction, say like a pro laptop. On DIY side, you surely can but you would most likely just replicate one of their early experiments in the uni lab 15 years ago!
Do you think there will be any long term psychological effects?
If there is, it would be beneficial.
I agree skelecrafter especially if u live in polar circle
What's the power draw?
Have it tap into local weather to determine actual weather conditions thus if it's raining/snowing,etc you will know just by looking at the window like you would with a natural window
We know that the sun emmits a light of a certain frequency spectrum that helps us to build vitamine d, which helps against depression. Does that light source do the same?
In addition to hospitals, I would like to see if there would be any effect of job productivity, especially in during the winter months or at night time. Looks pretty incredible..I wonder if you could get the light to move slowly replicating the movement of the sun.
Does it include the source light moving during the day mimicking the way natural sunlight appears?
At the moment the light source is static, so does not mimic different times of day.
But, does it give you the infrared warmth? That is a key element that it needs.
+Tom Z Thats easy to add
WHAT IF WE'RE ALL ALREADY LIVING ON THE OTHER SIDE OF A GIANT ARTIFICIAL SKYLIGHT.
Qi Machine Even today people still haven’t caught on...
the sky is fallin
-little chicken
What happened to this product? Has it been put into production?
Hello, I have the same effect but only need about 2000 dollars of skylight. Are you interested?
Does this use Rayleigh Scattering?
can you get sunburned and are there controls to turn up and down sunlight?
Un orgoglio per il Made in Italy. Complimenti.
It's been 8 years and I still think about this video......sooooo do we have anything close to this in production ?
the skylight is produced now.
Good idea for people in the north where the days are short , or during their weeks of darkness.
The real question is, what is the spectrum of light that is produced and does it provide proper UVB, UVA for vitamin D3 production in humans and animals?
Can they make smaller versions? I need 1 to put in my room. Everything else feels too artificial! Oh, or lightbulbs! Please, we need this!
Next step is mimicking daytime and actual weather conditions above on the panel
Does it feel warm warming?
Does this solution transmit UV light? or just visible light?
I want one sooo bad, and how about even better for windows on the wall, make them 3D sothat if you look at it at different directions,it will really looks like as if you watching the outside from a different angle!!!
I saw something like this on Aliexpress for €140. I wonder whether that looks a good as this. The light does look very natural with this one but $40K for a light. If buy a house in Spain with real sunlight for that money
Does it reproduce the warmth of the Sun?
does it have any real life screenshots, not rendered conceptual images?
Questions:
- Will these become commercially available and affordable (price wise) to say the average IKEA customer? (at least in smaller sizes like 1sqm /1m2
- If so what time frame are we looking at before production is streamlined enough to get to that stage?
Hello, I have the same effect but only need about 2000 dollars of skylights. Are you interested?
I just keep thinking of space travel and the applications there. Like wow.
This will sell a lot in the Scandinavian countries. Add clouds to it please.
Hello, I have the same effect but the price is much lower than the Coelux ($40,000). Are you interested?
Has this product ever come to market?
Hello, I have the same effect but only need about 2000 dollars of skylights. Are you interested?
Where can you buy this light...coelux website doesn't have it?
Hello, I have the same effect but only need about 2000 dollars of skylights. Are you interested?
So this works 24 x 7? Where can I buy this?
Hello, I have the same effect but only need about 2000 dollars of skylight. Are you interested?
Quite innovative!
Does the Cloelux emit heat? I mean can you feel any warmth in the light? I'm guessing it's some kind om led technology so the answer would be no.
Can you comment on which images at coelux.com are computer rendered and which are real?
So it's a few years on. Are these things affordable yet?
I doubt they actually exist.
@@CANTON76A : www.coelux.com/en/store-locator/index
Hello, I have the same effect but only need about 2000 dollars of skylight. Are you interested?
yeah but how is it made?
You can use this to make so many dark rooms cheerful.
You'd still need the light installed recessed into the ceiling to sell that skylight look tho.
This would be great for uses in submarines
Magnificent.
It's still a cold light, though.
can produce natural sunlight
Does it give off heat???
I dont understand, if they made even the sun, how that works? Is the sun at infinite or where?