Doing it the hard way. Brown & Sharp grinder touchdown & Test!
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- Опубликовано: 28 июл 2023
- This week I get the brown and sharp surface grinder on the shop floor and off the wood pallet it was delivered on. I also find out the truth about this machines condition. Is it Junk or a keeper?
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Couple years ago I went to pick up my auction grinder, a smaller brown and sharpe. Guy said he had a forklift on site, so I only brought my small trailer, no tailgate, no tools, no lifting equipment. He did not in fact have a forklift. There were a couple people picking up equipment in the same predicament so we all got together to see what we could do. Found a pallet jack, put it under the grinder, pulled it out to the center of the floor where the wheel of the jack broke. Then we tried the same thing and started using the pallet jack like your toe jack, busted up other pallets as cribbing, and jacked it up about a foot before it became sketchier than any of us could tolerate. Finally we put all our tools in a pile and started brainstorming. We had a kelly bar, some 1/4" plywood, a floor jack, and a come-a-long. We made a bunch of suggestions, all of which were unfeasable. Finally one of the smartest people I ever met, one of the other guys, said "Take the wheels off your trailer". Holy cow. Took the wheels off the trailer which dropped the back all the way to the ground. Put the plywood on the deck so it had something to slide on, used the come-a-long to pull the grinder into the trailer, then used the jack to put the wheels back on. I gave the guy the last $40 I had in my wallet so he could buy some lunch, he immediately took it to the seller and said 'what else do you have?' Ended up getting a nice rotary table. That learned me my lesson, I never go to pick up equipment anymore that I don't take the big trailer, the winch, tools, and my modified engine crane.
Yeah when i go picking something up i take way more than i need in case..better to have it if you need it....and when you find they can't help you you don't waste a trip or fuel or time or....frustration !!
YUP ! You can always take it all back home with you unused eh
I never ever want to be missing a forklift ever again. It just makes everything so much easier
Steve: "What's the worst that can happen... Hold my micrometer"
🤣🤣🤣
We got a glimpse of Elvis as you were in front of the ole yellow fan ! Had my nerves on end till it was safely on the slab. When thru the same motions when we picked up my Klopp 450 shaper, but the pallet it came on did fall apart after we had it secured to come-alongs, thank God! Still hold that day in memory, was the last time my Bride was in our shop. This July will make one year without her, so you cherish every moment you and Elisabeth have together, Bear.
It’s funny because I see a lot of blokes trying to get their machines off pallets whereas I put mine on them. To be more precise, I build a custom wooden pallet as solid as possible to suit the machine that’s going to sit on it and for my pallet jack to lift it. Then I can move them around my shop on my own in complete safety. It also makes cleaning and maintenance much easier. Another bonus is I’m 6’6” / 2 meters tall so the extra height is very welcome. I love the channel and I’m looking forward to seeing more work on Jonny Cash. Cheers, Stuart 🇦🇺
Love your calico kitten.
Good job keeping it low and slow getting this safely on terafirma. Looks like a winner my friend.
That fan moment was pure gold :D
Great seeing the B&S surface grinder doing the job so well, casting my mind back to my apprentice days I remember using Jones & Shipman surface grinders, I'm pretty sure they didn't have filters for the coolant, instead, after coming off the machine the 'suds' would run into a tank which contained a flight of settling trays where the coolant would overflow into the next one progressively dropping out the solids on the way to the bottom from where it was fed back to the machine. Love the little calico kitten, looks full of potential mischief! All The Best from Somerset, England.
So, how do you explain the Home Hardware pail? Are you a secret Canadian?
Nice work getting the grinder safely off the pallet. Also, super excited to see what projects will be made on the new grinder.
Machine tool Jenga is a high stakes game. Glad you won 😀
He really made it look easy in fast forward. But I'm gonna tell you from personal experience it's not. Would never do it again --- I would not recommend this method.
At first I thought you were going to suggest burning the pallet out from underneath it but then as you were explaining your plan with the chainsaw I started to think this may be your last video, good to see you made it, I can’t think of anything I have done in the past few years more exciting then trying lift and lower equipment that weighs a few thousand pounds by hand, if you haven’t tried it is a real thrill
The grinder performed well. The bocks measure consistently and you liked the surface finish. The machine way belly wear may prevent large part flatness accuracy and your test set up could not determine this. BUT it looks very promising.
Grinding is more of an art than machining. There are so many subtile dynamics that don't affect machining and typically we grind for greater precision and accuracy raising the skill level bar substantially. I have no hobby shop surface grinding capacity in my hobby shop. I am still trying to master machining skills. You are light years ahead of me as an operator, but I am an experienced repair technician. I have long enjoyed diagnosing machine accuracy. As a repairman I relied heavily on operators to perform test operations, but I designed and managed the processes. I could have a lot of fun collaborating with you if I lived closer.
I enjoy being part of your journey. I am taking a new step in my journey. I am completing preparations for hosting and teaching intro to machine shop to a group of homeschool boys. My 12 year old grandson spent a day with me this week purchasing and prepping materials for our student class projects. I taught intro to electricity and troubleshooting to a similar group of boys. That was fun and I am very excited to begin the new adventure. Mr. Pete has inspired me and is a long distance coach!
Seeing that grinder brought back bad memories. I ran one of those all day every day making graphite blank cubes for EDM machining. The graphite was so fine the dust went right through my uniform, 40 minutes of scrubbing in the shower after work every day.
Try graphite based grease, takes months to wear out of your skin. Especially when it mixed with the Areoshell hydraulic fluid, to make a nasty sticky paste. We found a good way to wash it out, which involved a 44 gallon drum with no top, a gallon of the detergent from the high pressure cleaner, and a 4 hour boiling in the drum with a hot fire under it, then leave to dry, and boil again in fresh fluid and water, then rinse, and wash as usual. They went very faded after a half dozen cycles, but at least were clean.
Glad the grinder checks out well!😊
I've had to do this a dozen times. lol. Each time you do it, you get a little better at it.
I smiled when you put your hand against the grinder when you lowered the front the first time - as if you'd make any difference if it decided to topple! 😄
Didn't Will Stelter or Alex Steele move a Fairbanks power hammer upright on a pallet truck outside( yes, really), and his first instinct was to try to get in the way before the inevitable happened.
Time for an indicator lamp for the mag-chuck? Perhaps a small lamp on the junction box on the side of the chuck? BTW like the Dorset flag, I'm sure you'd get a warm welcome here if you ever make it to the UK.
Little off topic. But I noticed in the shot with cora. The floor looks great. No noticeable settling or cracking. Still amazed by the work you did on your shop.
I've had zero issues with the floor. It hasn't settled or cracked . I'm really happy with the way it came out
Glad to see that beast in action and that it's so accurate. Score!
😂😂 the shop dog..."need some help dad?"
Hi Steve The Brown and Sharp looks a real winner. Now onto to the DoAll saw. Have a great week
As surface grinders go, that's the Mercedes of grinders. Love that grinder. I have a little Harig 6x12 grinder and only the cross feed is automatic...I have to turn the X=axis by hand on each stroke. I bought mine at a school auction about 10 yrs ago, only paid $300 for it. It is accurate as the day it was made, even though it's a little smaller than I would like, it's plenty good for what I do. I hardly ever use it. It just sits there and collects dust most of the time. I actually made my own precision flat stones on it with a diamond wheel that I bought that was in a box full of mostly brand new grinding wheels I bought at some other auction. I love machinery auctions but unfortunately there aren't many here in east TN, plenty of farm and construction equipment auctions though. In CT where I'm originally from, machine auctions came up monthly.
Nothing sketchy to see here! 😂😂 Well done, Steve. If anyone could make this work, you’d be up there with the best of them. BTW, I LOVED that kitten! What a beauty!
Great job Steve
You had me nervous for a few minutes
Good rigging is done to a plan, at a steady pace, with no surprise moves, and not always with fancy equipment. Good work and good score with the grinder.
Blessings from South Africa.
Yes, most of my rigging has been done with a 1 ton chain hoist, that I bought from a now defunct hardware store, and it has served me well. 1 ton rated, but has been (ab)used to do many things, including being used with a racking beam as a puller for stuck shafts, and for lifting up machines close to 1 ton, because of the need to repair them. Drilled a few mounts into the concrete beams and roof as well, using 1 ton eye rings, and M12 Rawl bolts, along with a good fill with construction epoxy from ABE as belt and braces, just in case the Rawl fitting ever wanted to come loose. Hard to come loose when the entire fitting and bolt, including thread, is filled with epoxy, though getting them in was difficult as you filled the hole, then left the epoxy to cure for 24 hours before use, eyelet and all now permanent parts. Think new owner of the building simply ground them off, and painted with primer, because they were never coming out.
Did bend that 5 ton shelving stringer though, though it did do the job, but afterwards was bowed, and went as scrap metal eventually, as the shaft went back in this time with grease on it, not rust. One job pulled as motor off that burnt out, and only after struggling with it looked up the data, and found this was a 230kg cast iron frame unit, with the 300kg gearbox on it. No wonder so heavy to manhandle, the new motor was 83kg, aluminium frame version, and yes that beam was again abused to separate the two parts, as again OEM, and zero lubrication, aside from what blew past the oil seals. Motor died because the original installer wired to start in delta, and run in star, then upped the breaker to a 50A unit to not trip, and bridged out the overload as well. Ran for a few years, till it burnt a contactor to the point it dropped a phase, and then burnt out the windings. New motor, new control gear, and added in the biggest soft starter I could find, for this 8kW motor.
I agree, most the riggers I've seen in action use old jacks wood blocks and worn straps. They plan well and think about every move before they do it. In most cases they do anyway 😁
@@SteveSummers Yes had pro movers in for that, and yes they took 2 hours to decide just how to move, but no damage done. Same can not be said about the courier however.....
Did have an old stainless steel tank that needed to go, and only option was to borrow a plasma cutter, and in 20 minutes the tank was stainless steel sheets on the floor. FIL came from work with his plasma cutter (container repairs) and a quick job to hard wire it into the board (3phase power needed for this big machine) and an air line, and before you can say smoke, it was done. Tank could not go out in one piece, as it was in there long ago, and the only way was to use a crane, and remove a window complete, and resale value was scrap steel price.
Great result Steve to get it to one fifty -thousandth of an inch is bloody fantastic! So another of Al's great finds! Cheers from the UK
Always happy to see you find cool stuff and put it back to work!
You should invest in a gantry crane. Very very handy, love the channel! Keep up the good work!
Also, my best to the Mrs and kids. Hope everyone is doing well!
I love your videos and your calming demeanor thank you for sharing
Steve has too much time on his hands -- time to cut a glass bottle with no end purpose. What's the world coming to :-)
Love the content. Keep it up.
This video reminds me of when I purchased my Sieg Lathe. It turned up on a pallet and the delivery company dumped it in the middle of my garage. I hadn't even though about how to get it out of the pallet and into service. Luckily, an elderly neighbour and a good friend knew a thing or two about this, he turns up with a bunch of pieces of scaffolding pipe, wooden wedges, a jack and a large metal pry bar. We spent a couple of hours getting it off the pallet and gradually lowering it onto the scaffolding before we rolled it into position and down onto the ground before fixing it down and levelling the bed. His wise words at the end are that I've got a lot to learn and on reflection, he was right. I've learned a lot about machining in many more ways than I thought when I hit the buy now button.
This is the same person that last week called me to say that their computer was broken and roles reversed and he now is up and running again.
Never underestimate the power of your network of friends and the experience they have.
Happy Saturday Steve, Cora and Grits! Inovative solution to getting the Grinder off the pallet! Thanks for the tip on the diamond saw blade. Always something to learn, Thanks for sharing, God Bless.
Great ingenuity, which is what a poor boy has to have. I understand the hard headed part (me) and also fiercely independent (result of cranial density). Diamond wheels- I worked at a shop that used mostly carbide tooling on Brown & Sharpe machines. There was a Diamond grinder used for sharpening tools. It was very soft and easy to mess up. (Management frowned when that happened. )
If I was carrying out the same task, massive destruction would have occurred at 8:47, as the long 4x4 balanced precariously atop the toe jack catastrophically failed in the unknowable depths of that massive knot. Glad you survived, Steve! I surely would have not.
When I brought home my shaper it was on a pallet. I had to do what you did to get it on the ground. It has been a hot one here too.
I am so very happy to see the smile on your face after testing those blocks.
Picking up a gem of a machine that runs as well as that at the first attempt ... it could not have happened to a nicer bloke ... 😊 Good on 'ya Steve
Thanks for the Welch's placement, we grape farmers appreciate it!. At one time, there were folks cutting beer bottles like you did, then fastening the cut top to the bottom to fashion a red-neck-style goblet glass with PBR label intact. (some rim filing required)!
Here the cut is made using a glass cutter in a jig, and then a string wrapped around, dipped in petrol and lit, to snap off the top cleanly. Then sand the 2 halves, and epoxy the top to the base, and leave the paper label intact.
Excellent video. Problems and successful or unsuccessful solutions are interesting to me. Things happen. Thanks.
Good video Steve and a good outlook; give my best wishes to the family.
My all time favorite grinder to work close tolerance parts. B&S Micromaster.
Hey Steve. Many years ago I worked in a sheet metal shop. My main job was working a punch press (houdaille strippit). We had a small manual surface grinder used mainly for sharpening punches and dies. You are correct that an automatic machine is the way to go but, being able to take a break to sharpen punches, after finishing a job where you were punching 2 holes in a run of 1000 pieces, was a very welcome break. Thanks for the video!
great video Steve thank you work at a shop myself and woudent mind haveing one of those in my lil shop at the house
The Bosch Bulldog Extreme Max is a ROTARY Hammer drill - which are more effective at drilling concrete than standard hammer drills, which work fine for bricks and mortar.
Awesome job! Looks like you snagged a good one.
I almost bought a surface grinder from Harbor Freight years ago. Back when they sold them... One of those I don't have a need for it but there are times it would be really nice to have. Glad the new B&S turned out so well. That usually goes the other way for me...
Seems that it is in nice condition and you scored a 10 out of it...
What I would take into consideration is a longer lead for the magchuck, the plug is moving quite much in the socket, a longer lead with a loop in in it would eliminate most of the stress thats introduced into the socket...
The diamond blade is quite nice, cut one ich above the bottom of some interesting designed bottles, put a LED bulb in the neck and hang it from the ceiling, would make some nice mood lights1
Thx for showing!
👍👍👍
"An automatic grinder is the only way to go". Amen to that! My workshop is too small for a full sized grinder, so I make do with the little manual one I rebuilt from a heap of parts. Doesnt half make your arms ache!
amazing accuracy
Thank you for sharing.👍
*Thank You* for the video Steve. Much appreciated. 👍
Hey a tip for those hose clamps you are using for the lubricant. The screw driver you were using is actually the same size as the hex head on the clamp. Just take the flathead tip out and use it like a socket and it makes them way easier to fasten plus a little more secure.
That diamond band saw blade is awesome and cutting bottles for pin holders is not a new idea but still cool to see it being done with a band saw .
Well done 👍
Steve. Im not a machinist but i do have a lot of experience in measuring things. I have an observation to make on your testing of the grind. It is much more diffcicult to describe in words, I wish i coud darw a diagram. Any way, here goes.
Because the chuck moves under the grind wheel, and, you ground the chuck prior to the block test, it is inevitable that the 6 blocks would be the same depth. you are, effectively, measuring the same distance 6 times.
i suggest your measurements are an indication of how consistent the wheel itself is. i would venture to suggest that, because of the grinder design, the over-riding influence is the surface quality of the wheel.
this is no way meant as a criticism, i offer this, for what its worth, more as a point of discussion.
thank you for a brilliant channel, i look forward to each new video.
btw, thats one cracking dog youve acquired, what a gem she is.
regards from across the pond
Steve, really enjoying your series on the MicroMaster.
- Noticed the hydraulics on it are fairly quiet. Some machinery auxiliaries can be really noisy.
- wow! It’s a keeper….within a 1/10th on the whole chick! Could this be a testament on how well the grinder is designed? As you said earlier, you just don’t know the condition of the ways without getting the table off….just goes to show, it was taken care of on the lubrication front!
- at the close of the video, you could hardly contain your joy on your test!
Great find, glad it turned out well, best wishes with it.
Cheers from Wyoming, Delaware
Randy
Steve DO ALL Summers. Great job getting that grinder on to the floor. Were there's will there's a way nice. Till next time take care.
I got all my machines off the pallets in a similar fashion I happened to have a couple of heavy angle iron that was a little longer than the pallets which then I jacked up the ends set on cribbing slid pallets out and lowered down in the same fashion as you did.
The only thing I did differently is made stands under machines that had leveling bolts with pads welded to them and gave myself just enough clearance under the frame to get a pallets jack under some of the frames are wider than the machines just so pallet jack will fit but now they are easily leveled and easily moved around the shop especially if you need the room for a project and space is a premium they can be parked out of the way quickly. Good job at getting it done yourself 👍👍👍
good content - determining how flat something is with dial indicator was interesting #tolerances #mag chuck you are really getting shop dialed in now (pardon the pun) - make sure to take some time off before summer is over and make a list of goals and projects for over the winter!
I would say you have both . A VERY cool pencil holder AND a small glass funnel 😎. I’ll be ordering one of those blades 🤜
Great video. Interesting. Thanks.
This is so funny! Just when I was about to type that the yellow cable was a bit tight and probably wouldn't last long it magically changed into a black and longer one!
Nice that it was so good!
You are indeed fortunate that the B&S is a good as your test showed. I hope we get to see some projects using the grinder soon. KOKO!
Morning from Montreal Canada 🇨🇦 😀 😎
Greetings and best wishes from Dorset, UK 😘
Bom trabalho amigo Steve!!!
machine upgrades are a good thing
Coolant system also would recommend getting a cheap water filter housing, 8in, and fittings to go to the hose used, and a 5 micron water filter cartridge. That way your cutting wheel gets a good flow, that does not have all the debris that misses the filter sock, and your cutting will have less marks left in it from tramp debris in the coolant impacting the surface. Filters will show dirt fast, but will keep the wheel very clean as well. Plus the restriction will also help with slowing down flow rate on the big pump.
Tortie will have attitude, even though she is cute, and will be showing the dogs fast who is the boss there.
Did you see “This old Tony” blade sharpener? Great work on the getting the grinder on the floor.
I did. He done a great job. 👍
Nice one Steve 🇮🇪
You have a sweet machine dude.
I hope you made sure all your Bijur metering valves are flowing
I have the same machine.
Five block test was within .0003”. Not bad for a machine over sixty years old.
Mine has the flood coolant kit. Heavy sheet metal skirting around the chuck.
You are gonna love that baby.
Thanks, I will have to make the splash shield for this one unless I can fine some. .0003 isn't bad 👍
good video steve
i have done this getting an engine out of a car onto the floor using wood and bricks jack one side pull out some wood or rick lower it. then repeat the same the other side and go back and forth until its on the floor
it seems a good one..
Steve #5 went flying before your mag chuck was engaged might check the sides for burs Danny
G'day Steve.
I love my bosch hammer drill. Rocks, concrete, morter it doesn't matter
Yes, drilled a few holes with a 5mm bit, and only noticed after around 5 the tip was missing, must have snapped off when hitting some rebar. Made no difference to the drill though, went in exactly the same for the remaining 20 holes. Shame about the bit, it had been used to put in 12km of lighting in a shopping centre, all the back of house lighting in the car park, and the utility corridors, drilling 2 holes every 500mm for saddles, and then 2 holes for every fixture as well. Still got it, ground it to a sharp point, and used as a scriber now. The Bosch bits are good stuff, along with the Hitachi/Hikoki ones.
That was a sketchy osha lift. I can see your suprise how accurate it was. Happy for you.
Nifty! 👍
Wow it takes quite a bit of solution in that water. The stuff I use takes a 1/4 of what you used
Hi Steve From New Zealand
Good morning from Lincolnshire UK 🇬🇧
One look at that Brownie and I knew you had a good one! Most surface grinders that did heavy work will not look like yours. That was a tool-room or tool makers machine. Made by Providence, RI skilled machinists and craftsmen.
Those days are long gone.
😢
Thanks again Steve! By the way, I think Cora gets cuter and sweeter every week. 🐕🤗
Steve, fire polish the cut edges of the glass and avoid injury. An ordinary propane torch should be plenty hot, as a lab Bunsen burner is good enough for common soda/lime glass. Borosilicate ("pyrex") glass is beyond a Bunsen burner, but a Meker (grid top) burner works (been there/done that).
Need a shop expansion!
That's EXACTLY the way the Pyramids of Egypt were built!
7:57 That was a free advertisement for "Thunder Down Under" ..are you joining Chippendales?
You also have home made vials for oilers using that diamond blade Steve...
☹🇬🇧
Enjoyed…what is the spec on the surface grinder wheel?
Hello Chuck👍. The wheel I used was a Radiac 46J. A100137
Steve when you ground your blocks did you grind both sides before checking . Thanks
These blocks stay in my tool box for this test only. I've used them many times, so yes they are ground on both sides. I didn't grind the other side in this test but they were ground before 👍
Yes, that smooth move at 30:24 usually leaves a nice, deep divot on the grinder surface. Hopefully it didn't, and if it dit, hopefully you could resurface it. Hope, hope, hope, hopey changey thing.
The easiest way to lower a heavy item is to raise it , replace the pallet with blocks or bags of ice.
The ice will melt and gently lower the item to the ground.
I have seen this done with a prefabricated concrete pool where there was no access around 2 sides of the pool.
The risk of the ice shattering would worry me.
😂 - 6:50 - I’m with Cora - 😂
find it interesting the only one that was off a little was the one thrown off the mag chuck lol
Do the dressing more in front of the spindle, and you get an angle :)
If your 90 deg. diamond is not at bottom dead center, you get a bit of up angle on it. The farther off bottom dead center it is, the more angle you get?
"Houston, Tranquility Base. The Eagle has landed."
"Give me a place to stand and a lever and I'll"
Said some idiot in their back yard just before they did something that got them on the evening news.
Then there's Steve.
Carefully carefulling.
The dog approves, need I say more?
😄
Thinking some more about this, I wonder what those six blocks prove beyond repeatability of grinding the chuck and then grinding something on top of that chuck. In other words, I don't think it tells us much about the actual flatness of the grind. It does tell us that the grind is following the same path consistently.
Moving the blocks to the surface plate and checking them there is where you see if the grinder is true or not. If I were to have placed the indicator off the grinder spindle head and check the blocks on the mag chuck it would have shown that the blocks were the same thickness even if they were different. It's moving the blocks to the known flat surface plate that shows the true path of the grinder spindle in relationships to the mag chuck.👍
I hope this makes sense
@@SteveSummers Hi Steve, love your show. My point is that the contact point of the grinding wheel follows some path through space which is not necessarily flat. After you grind the chuck, the surface of the chuck follows that same path. As long as that path is highly repeatable (even after you raise the wheel a bit to grind the blocks), the top surfaces of the blocks will also follow that same path. So those blocks will have the same height, even if the path followed by the wheel is not perfectly flat.
What the test shows is that the grinding wheel follows a very consistent path, even after being raised above the blocks, but it does not verify that this path is flat.