Is Figurative Painting Coming Back or are we Trapped in Modernism? | David Molesky & Jan-Ove Tuv
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2022
- The question as been asked over and over for decades: Is figurative painting coming back?
David Molesky and Jan-Ove Tuv sit down to discuss the possibilities and problems with the current trends and what it truly takes to change the tide.
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Chapter markers:
00:01 What kind of "figuration"
02:06 A better situation
05:03 Cross-over painters
10:12 Wyeth & Nerdrum vs. Currin & Freud
12:51 AI and painting vs. humanism
15:58 Artification and American iconoclasm
19:53 Our nature does not change
25:20 Two types of figuration
29:42 Trained in sentimentality
34:55 Galleries vs. cooperating with architects
39:28 Lumped in with the wrong kind of work
42:46 Originality is for aliens
This episode featured David Molesky & Jan-Ove Tuv and was filmed and edited by Bork Nerdrum.
The centerpiece was a 19th century reproduction of G. F. Watts' Hope.
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This is the best channel on RUclips. So glad I discovered this.
Fun to see these youngsters discuss the same exact subjects we did, at my art school, in the 70s! Same old questions; what is art good for, what is the highest and best form of art, abstract versus representational? Art mirrors society, always has. That's why art history often gives a better look at some bygone day than the written word. David was on the mark when he expressed that, like the cave art, we too just add to the body of work. Very similar to how science, art's first cousin, progresses; all contributing to the same body of work. So, as long as we are corporal, not just spirit, figurative work will always be there too. Whether the critics like it or not matters little; it is persistent and patient. Like Tom Wolfe said, "A few people determine what Art is, then the public is invited."
The declining interest in figurative painting is a symptom of the society in general.
A resurgent interest in figurative should and must come back. Figurative and landscape paintings are relevant today and in the future. Not only are techniques get passed down but also history -- history of the humankind and the environment.
How to see a turnaround? It's not going to be easy. Not many painters nowadays want to paint the "true (the human condition), the good and the beautiful '' anymore.
The ideologues have infested many areas of society, like in the education system. Instead of meritocracy we have inclusivity. Instead of teaching the young how to draw they'll be told If you can't draw just splash paint on the canvass . Many want expresso. We have become too lazy and not want to exert some effort to achieve something. The idiom, "no pain no gain" is now out of our vocabulary, let alone in our thinking.
The government are also infested with idealogues, instead of being neutral in handing out arts funding. And if the people are not shown figurative, they'll settle for modern abstract that they need to read 1000 pages of explanation to understand. Of course, some figure paintings are symbolic too but because the forms are more defined we share the same ground of reality so it's a better understanding .
It's a feedback cycle, because no one paints figurative anymore the gallery owners follow. And also idealogue gallery owners gatekeep the paintings they hang in their galleries. (Isn't this the same as banning speech they don't like?) And if that's the only kind of supply then that's the only demand. You're a lucky figure painter if you have connections though. Understandably, gallery owners want profit but they can help the situation if they are not too idealogues.
Portrait and figure painters should just paint because it not a pain it's a pleasure and like a swelling dam it will break out soon. (I know you, we need to pay the bills but that's another topic for discussion). Maybe the wealthy people will then go back to vigourously buying contemporary figuratives. However not everyone love to hang on their walls a motif on the dark side of humanity, we need some vibrant colour in our lives too. So, I advocate moderation is the key, even in figure paintings.
Wealthy people that love figuratives can help by funding prizes in portrait and figurative artwork and their acquisitions for public venues.
So our problem now is how to moderate the idealogues. (ha ha)
Loved it. Art is our survival and our salvation
Thank you so much for sharing your ideas and opinions. Profoundly valuable conversation.
What about Edward Hopper? He was painting narrative figurative works in the peak of abstract art movement.
"no one wants to see portraits... Or figures, it's dead."... "i can go to Europe and find all kinds of dark pictures, but no one cares".... "you need to learn how to paint"... And this gallery owner shows me a canvas with a bicycle painted in colors of rainbow. So, I moved to Italy😂
A true work of art is in its nature an honest appeal to the future senses and imaginations of the cultivated individual with sound aesthetic instincts. It is to them the final appeal is made and to them that the artist must suffer to decide its fate.
the wheel keeps revolving with every time bringing a new track mark to the mud...,,,!!!
Fin samtale å følge!
Yes it’s coming
Not yet bro
Did traditional figure paintings end with the PreRapaelites? They are still me favorites but not being rich, I can't help the situation. I am alsways drawn to the Old Masters and though I enjoy some modern art, its still from the early 20th century. I have seen videos of modern art exhibitions in Europe that literally hurt my eyes! Garish and silly and sometimes perverse, is this anything new about the tastes of the nouveau riche?
Figurative painting has been "back" for an age
Modernism sucks. In my opinion virtually everything that came after Futurism - with a handful exceptions - is not worth much. Ask me if I want a Velazquez or a Pollock…
Yeah I know I sound snobbish, but I don’t care 😊
go find a rothko and stare at it for 30mins and you will understand the abstract
you might be trapped, don't assume I care about the chump change the art world can give me if i shuck and jive hard enough - figurative painting never went away for real artists who saw the challenge that Michelangelo and Tiepolo left for us - monochrome squares in contemporary art shows 70 years after Albers should be your first clue that nothing is going to change in the art world so who wants to be in that hell hole? I could literally, in my style at least, paint an epic ceiling mural with flying horses and passable Mannerist figures if I had a chance so who cares what is selling in galleries, given accolades or satisfies some cultural agenda - Rubens, Tiepolo etc will never be challenged by any of those artists.
The way artists are moving is showing more sickness.
You guys are close but are still missing the point of how to become successful. Paintings are a luxury items, a Veblen good. Postmodernism sells for high prices because those who can afford it want to project a certain image to others. You can philosophize all you want about what is a great work of art(I find great enjoyment and entertainment from that) but, if you actually want to sell your work for higher/comparable prices to that postmodern crap, you have to represent emotions of the actual people who can afford the work. You can be timeless and still create work for people who are actually alive today in the present. Just please stop whining that others are selling for higher prices then you even though you’re a better painter. Maybe you should take some time and up your business skills to the level of your painting skills.
Even Rembrandt sold his work as a Veblen good. Before the term even existed. Read “The Theory of the Leisure Class”. Just as true today as it was in 1899, maybe even more so. All the great masters sold their work in this way. My proof for that is that they succeed and we’re still looking at there work today and those who didn’t, we don’t even know their names. Not because they where worse painters(some where) but because they where crap businessmen.
Here is a few questions to ponder… If all the lovers of true painting become painters, who will buy their paintings? If the civilization you live in despises sentimentality who will cry about? Who is willing to die to master their craft? If your answer to all these questions is “Me” then verily, you better become a great businessman. Else you’re more a devil to the world than Satan himself. Also try to sell to individuals rather than institutions, you’ll sleep better at night.
High priced art is a vehicle for the rich to avoid taxes and launder money. What is “high” is determined by the critics. If the critics praised figurative art then that is what would sell. It’s like wine, buyer ask what is good and a sommelier tells them what is worth investing in.
@@maynardosullivan The rich have every right to avoid the taxes imposted upon them by a corrupted civilization and to launder THEIR money so the thieves and beggars of the world can’t find it. Rich people worked hard to MAKE that money and they deserve it because money is the measure of value an individual creates in this world. The critics have no idea what is good because most critics have no concrete moral structure. The critics are just trying to earn a paycheck. It’s the creators of those works of art that bear the responsibility of elevating the human “conversation” and to translate those universals in a way that the majority of the laymen can comprehend. If that sommelier told you urine tasted good and was worth investing it would you buy it?
@Indigo Rodent thank you, that is what I was trying to articulate.
Figurative Painting is Coming Back! Yes! Jenny Saville, Helnwein, Anton Hoeger, a lot of spanish painters, and alot of more interesting artists.