DEBATE: Is Immigration Good For Britain?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 20 мар 2024
- Konstantin Kisin and Matthew Goodwin take on Aaron Bastani and Polly Toynbee, debating what is described as one of the most 'divisive' talking points in 2024...
Organised by touchpointstrategy.co.uk/
Find Matt's Substack here: www.mattgoodwin.org/
💥Join us on our Journey to 1 Million Subscribers💥
Join our exclusive TRIGGERnometry community on Locals! triggernometry.locals.com/
OR Support TRIGGERnometry Here:
Bitcoin: bc1qm6vvhduc6s3rvy8u76sllmrfpynfv94qw8p8d5
Music by: Music by: Xentric | info@xentricapc.com | www.xentricapc.com/ RUclips: @xentricapc
Buy Merch Here:
www.triggerpod.co.uk/shop/
Advertise on TRIGGERnometry:
marketing@triggerpod.co.uk
Join the Mailing List:
www.triggerpod.co.uk/#mailing...
Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media:
/ triggerpod
/ triggerpod
/ triggerpod
About TRIGGERnometry:
Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians.
What debates do you want to see next on the channel? 👇
Why male suicide isn't a national scandal would be a good one. Or why rape conviction rates aren't a national scandal. I don't know why the woke cult have a monopoly on what society is allowed to be offended by.
Honestly, a good one and a continued one with Bastani, would love to see one with Hitchens, with unlimited time on it of course, possibly two of them, and the duo, maybe with some strong tea...
I haven't listened yet I already feel as though you are wasting everyone's time debating over such an introductory question such as this on the topic of immigration.
All your viewers could answer this question in a sentence.
I would like for you to have more debates and conversations on immigration, however I hope that next time you will start with a question or statement that's much further along into the subject so no time will be wasted scratching the surface.
I promise you your audience can handle it.
Are all cultures just different, or better/worse? Is it possible that large swathes of the earth to be in worse cultures?
Or: has the west gotten rich because of exploiting others or because of better values, practices, interests, moral righteousness on the average?
I want to be clear that I've followed you guys for a long time and respect you both. I wouldn't bother giving the feedback otherwise.
Not Anton though, he should be fired for this!! 😉
Its so traditionally classical for Polly to open with the "but who will clean the toilets and serve my pret" argument.
Well she does live in Hampstead like a true socialist.
lol
My first time hearing her and she's a magnificent dope. Just let them work because they get in anyways and they eventually just become us and we forget they were they. WRONG. There are a great many new immigrants that have no interest in becoming 'us'. Its true we DO need to have a conversation about restructuring aspects of society to really care for people who want to have kids and truly supporting them and bringing back some reverence to the idea of having a family. Its quickly becoming the most important thing a nation can do if they want to continue to exist and not need to rely on heavy immigration.
Socialism is sick
Polly immediately twisted opposition’s position into deporting all immigrants 😅
She lost me at her first sentence.
Yeah she has to make up a position to stand against
Hilarious seeing a Guardian columnist providing almost exclusively an economic case for immigration. The upper class always look after their own.
What’s wrong with deporting all of them?
Classic straw man argument.
After listening to Polly for 5 minutes I felt like being sick.
Polly is clearly nuts
I am a Filipino nurse but I want to assimilate to the English culture and not the other way around. I respect what the forefathers of this country had done for the sake of the British population. It was meant to be for the British and those who come over here should absorb their culture and love the British culture. Period.
Bless you Eva. Hope things go well for you 👍
which is all we can wish for, we thank you for choosing here
They make you colony
@@basilmagnanimous7011 I hear you. But you NEED us... Desperately!
That is because that Filipino immigrants are part of the few that actually respect and benefit our country, unlike the Africans and Arabian immigrants who come here for benefits.
Hi, Swiss person here: when Aaron brings up Switzerland as a positive example of high migration he should also mention that the overwhelming majority of immigrants to Switzerland are well educated Europeans. Same with Luxembourg btw. But he doesn’t really want to go into specifics of Swiss immigration policy, because that doesn’t serve his narrative.
Why does it matter if they're Europeans? Don't like looking at brown people or are browns just subhuman or something?
I don't know how such people don't ask themselves "If I have to lie and deceive to make people believe me, perhaps my views are wrong??"
He also gave Qatar as an example. Yet around 70% of immigrants there live in semi apartheid like conditions.
if you think this you show that it is not immigration you have a problem with but non-European immigrants. This just a reiteration of xenophobia and racism not a criticism of immigration.
@@TheBustaProductionsso to be clear. When addressing issues with specificity, it's racist? It is absolutely impossible to comment on cultures and their detrimental impact on British people (of all races) without it being racist?
Why the hell are foreign students allowed to bring in their families? What a bloody joke!! I did a degree abroad and the very idea of havimg my mum or partner come with me never even passed through my mind.
Exactly ! They're not proper students.....the Universities are a gateway. So many of the 'students' don't even turn up after the first few lessons.
It’s very weird that, I suppose the culture of Indians is so different to that of us Europeans. I remember when I was at Uni, my housemate/friend said his Dad is coming to stay with us for just a week and all of us were like that is quite strange as we lived in a student accommodation. Meanwhile Indian students come and bring along with them 65 siblings, 3 mother and 7 fathers.
Not just any students. It’s usually PhD level or research-based Master’s. They can bring a spouse and children under 18.
@@towmee well said: I believe it prudent for others to ensure they have accurate facts before commenting on important matters. The ‘real issue’ lies in the leadership of our country, not solely in migrants. Illegal immigration is the most pressing challenge that needs addressing, I'm not qualified to suggest specific solutions that’s not in my pay-grade. My parents, like many others, are immigrants from the Windrush generation, I also wish to highlight the immigrant roots of ‘much’ of the British population on this ‘Island’. It's crucial for all of us to tackle these issues without resorting to xenophobic rhetoric, which always rears its ugly head during election season, I wonder why? Instead, we should focus on addressing systemic problems such as our governments mismanagement, lack of investment, and widening wealth inequality, which affects all our citizens, regardless of their background but hurts the poor more regardless of colour/ background while they fatten their bank balances along with their friends. That’s the real problem if poor people became more informed and voted diligently then we will demand and have real change.
Also the speed of how we process people is a ‘HUGE’ problem.
Poor old Polly, I think she’s a bit lost
Nope, she knows exactly what she is advocating.. evil
Blind old Polly climbing up a stick.
She is definitely GONE.
Not enough ice cream allegory for you lot?
@@arnoldhemsley9317 Yeah agree she is an old lady who has lost her way.
Bastini couldn't hold a candle to Matt Goodwin. He gaslights because the mess dosen't affect him. A rich commie who dosen't stand a chance when the smelly hits the fan.
"Locking them up in hotels" Polly starts right off the bat with lies. I felt the exasperation from Matt as soon as she said it.
She's either a moron or being disingenuous. The migrants come and go as they please in the hotels. There are no curfews.
It was all lies , the idea the NHS would crumble is a lie.
For a start without the cost if illegals you could put more money into schools and the NHS to train our kids better. Plus migration with skills is no bad thing , you need a visa to work in another country , as long as you have skills its fine , but what's happening is the government is getting all workers from abroad instead of investing in our own.
She mentions the government doing more to stop illegals and secure borders , but when they do something people like her kick up a fuss , then stop planes to Rwanda.
I'm sure she frames her holidays the same way, she was "locked up in a hotel" the poor thing
its lies and not only that they get several cards that tax payers pay onto for them to live on and its like 120+ a week which is more than what british living here get on unemployment benefits.
I do not know if it is a lie in Britain, but in Australia, asylum seekers are most definitely locked in hotel rooms, many for years on end. This came to light when Novak Djokovic was briefly detained in one before he was deported for breaching covid regulations. Britain has held Australia up to be a shining example and role model for how we manage refugees and have vowed to follow us with things like offshore detention so it wouldn’t surprise me if your country is in fact locking people in hotel rooms and you just don’t know about it. We didn’t.
According to Polly Britain would collapse if all immigrants left? Wow, the former empire and pioneer of the industrial revolution really has fallen.
Lieing liberals. All for their own pockets, snake oil salesmen.
Well not really. We didn't need migration back then because we had colonised a good quarter of the world at least. Our country was enriched via the proceeds of other nations and used in infrastructure public transport parks schools etc. We live in a completely different world order now for obvious reasons so comparing immigration from these two eras is quite odd
Which we had no right getting away with considering the size of the Island and also for the fact we were next to countries which had bigger populations and better allies it's an achievement that we even got 1% of the Globe never mind nearly 30% of it.
It has. We need to come to terms with this.
81% of Englands economy is service related, it already has fallen
As an immigrant, I couldn't even agree with those arguing for me.
Immigration benefits a few, but is a disaster for most.
These b%stards bring nothing but war drugs and rape.
Let me guess......the few are the corporate elite?
Benefits the rich!!!
Immigration only benefits those who want to impose tyranny.
I don't want anymore immigrants in my country ..we are an island country and we are full up ..
The very first thing the Guardian columnist opens with is the most bad faith, unrealistic argument imaginable. It's all they know.
Which Guardian columnist are you referring to?
I'm pretty certain that at least 3 people on the panel have been published in the Guardian.
@@Torquemadia Come on now. Really.
@@Torquemadiadoh, how do I know the answer yet you don't, Polly obviously, get with the program because this is the problem. Now pay attention or don't vote for the good of this country
@@ScoopDogg And yet, its because of YOUR vote, and the people who vote in the same way as you, that this country is in the state it's in!
@@Torquemadia I think he's referring to the ONLY panelist that introduced herself as writing for The Guardian...
The one who immediately straw-manned the argument to fit her counter arguments and then rambled on about Tories for soo long she lost track of her time.
That one...
The argument that "They're just coming here to get a better life" is meaningless. Why should their "just coming for a better life" be more honored than we citizens wanting a better life? Why should we have to give up our life to give them theirs?
There isn’t a contradiction between the two things
@@Gooseplan Do tell which slum prospered by having more people in it ?
Maybe stop bombing their countries then?
"seeking a better life" is a case of seeking to increase their consumption of the earth's resources, to increase their waste and to increase their carbon emissions. Immigration is bad for the earth.
It seems British citizens come last, minorities needs come first.
If university student population dropped, then university prices would drop and more native people could be accepted into university. To act like we need high immigration levels to keep the schools full is so insane that I can't believe anyone would actually say that.
A country prioritising it's countrymen is a good thing, actually.
Yes, it keeps being that country, it's a duty to protect.
Thats kind of what makes a country a country
Except the West has forgotten that.
The one rule you need but you didn't think you'd have to say it...
Like asking the child minder to not grape.....
@jonbaxter2254 We didn't forget it, our politicians got bought by people who don't want us in the world.
As a working-class bloke, it's always noticeable that on debates like this, the views of working class men are _never_ considered, despite the fact that we are always the most affected. And we are the people who make everything work!
A good proportion of my earnings are taken by tax, and a good proportion of those taxes are used to support people that give nothing to the country, to people who actively work against my interests, and to people who are trying to destroy my country and everything I believe in. What gives anybody the right to take my money to use it to harm me?
You'd have to ask A Tory that one.
@@pdyt2009 What makes you think it would be any better under Labour? If many of them get their way, it will be far worse.
migrants are a net addition to the exchequer, statistically speaking people of your demographic are net recipients. You have this idea you are subsidizing migrants, when the fact is the economic setup we have is that migrants (who are on average younger and healthier) subsidize the native population. That doesn't make it inherently a good thing but this idea that it's charity is for the birds; they net pay in to the tax system.
@@Muzikman127 That 'net contributor' bullshit was debunked years ago, child.
@@Stew282No it wasn't.
Agree with KK and the Prof. Like Aaron as a person but disagree with his view. Polly on the other hand is just as I expected, Guardian columnist, right on leftie with no clue about the real world lived in experience of working people. My daughter is 29. She moved to Austria about 6 years ago, worked in a pub, went to night school to learn how to speak, read & write German. She’s now fluent, happily married and has an Austrian citizenship, that was hard to get btw. She’s embraced Austrian rules, history and culture.That’s what should be happening here really. Come to Britain, legally, obey our rules, integrate with our society not the other way around!
The VERY FIRST woman IMMEDIATELY made the point of "we pay immigrants less, simple as. no immigrants means we need to treat the heritage Britons like humans and we simply don't want to." Good GOD how infuriating.
pay less but ontop of that expect some other country pay for their education and work experience
Businesses pay them less which supresses wages for the taxpayer. The taxpayer have to pay the migrants that doesn't work which is about half. Taxpayer always loses
"Importing a third world serf-class to undercut native labour is a GOOD thing"
@@hallahallafulalso: tax credits
I am having trouble understanding her point. Is she saying that if we want to curb illegal immigration, we need to enforce labor rights, etc.? And, that the same "side" that wants to curb immigration also does not want to enforce proper wages/rights etc.? Is she making an incentive argument?
I think Polly's echo is caused by the empty space between her ears.
😂
If you observe Polly closely, she doesnt rebutt any of Kisins' position nor does she actually defend migration or even suggest an alternative balance. All her speech consists of a series of rhetorical sophistries. Primarily: distraction (her main strategy), demonstratum ad absurdio, raising a point only to jump to another without analyzing it, constructing imaginary scenarios and making assumptions which arent only unproven but can be easily rebutted since the whole of british history before 1970 (and numerous current events) serves as a perfect counterexample.
Well said!
Also - Konstantin was the first to clap after Pollys speech. Very respectful. Thank you.
Primarily illegal immigration from countries/cultures that are openly hostile towards western values will only result in a clash of cultures, resentment, racism & a country divided.
Yep, and the woke Left are trying their hardest to accelerate those divisions.
VERY TRUE!!!
@dominionphilosophy3698 and different races (like in Brasil).
The British caliphate is a sad reality 😢
How did this happen? Why don't English understand the difference between good muslim immigrants, good nonmuslim immigrants and islamist immigrants?
@@AnAn___ It’s basic ignorance of incompetent people.
@@AnAn___ Because they haven't studied the related history or doctrines.
@@AnAn___ Islam in any form does not integrate with ANY western democracy.
We are being conquered. Infiltrate, subvert, convert, take over. Thats the play book.
Banning the sadistic practice of Halal slaughter of animals would be a good start to taking back control, although Kosher slaughter would probably need to be banned too.
The laughing when Polly speaks is hysterical.
I went from engaged listening to Konstantin’s opening to maybe I’ll finish this video later as soon as she started 🥱
@@user-xi2xi7qd3strue, Toynbee has all the charisma of a wilted cabbage. But debate is about logic and facts, not charisma. I'm sure you'll agree that if you only listened to charismatic speakers, your understanding of the world would end up very limited
@@number1neek She also failed in the logic and facts department 😂
@@user-xi2xi7qd3s care to explain how?
What annoys me is that even those on the anti-immigration side somehow believe the official numbers of there being 750,000 net migration despite us issuing 1,400,000 legal visas last year. Add to that the 100,000 illegal immigrants that we know about, it suggests that there are 750,000 people who leave the country each year. That's complete nonsense as we all know. Just ask yourself and your family and friends how many people they know who've emigrated in the past TEN years. I know of 4 families. That's it. We don't even have a system of counting those emigrating. Have you even been stopped at an airport or seaport and asked by some jobsworth with a clipboard if you're emigrating? Of course you haven't. Do the government have some other secret system of counting them? No they don't. They make the number up so that the net migration figure doesn't seem as bad as it actually is which is far in excess of a million each year. It's about time that the anti-immigration lobby called this out.
Polly clearly doesn't understand basic economics.
..or indeed reality
I mean she works for the guardian , if that isn't a damning verdict she's beyond hope I don't know what is
I dont get how they can be "our right .... to steal these best people from other countries".... common attitude.... not realizing that causes countries to collapse.
Yeah, they’re all “anti-racists”, “anti-colonial” luminaries, but bring up immigration and they’ll start telling you all how badly we need “those people” specially all their doctors and engineers.
What better way to extract the wealth then steal the people from other countries, including their best and brightest.
She is a fool. Brain dead NPC spouting the usual line.
Diversity has failed in the UK I'm lucky to have lived in the 60s 70s and 80s
You sound as old as me.
It's not failed at all! It was always intended to damage our nations, and in that it is succeeding.
It's not failed, it has done exactly what it was intended to. It was never intended to be beneficial to us.
It wass successful in the 90s. I grew up with best mates of all races. I just think it went downhill in the 2000s if we reference The Grooming Gang scandals and terrorist attacks. And then further downhill in the 2010s. Mass immigration was the issue. Not immigration in general. I grew up close with black people and Im glad they came here. Its helped shape my life. Love the music, the culture etc
@DarkAngel2512 it was never really worked, it just took time for the harm it was doing to show, that's all.
When she said that we failed to train construction specialists in Britain I nearly choked on my brew.
Several years in commercial and industrial construction and I barely see foreigners in management positions.
The labourers however don't seem to understand basic English and constantly damage expensive materials and create dangerous situations for the rest of us.
They work for less it's never ending
@VoteReformUK822 That's a myth. I can assure you that they get the same if not more than Indigenous bits on site. Maybe in London but in house building that's not the case. And they are not very good just easily replaceable. They call them selves the new Irish lol never.
@@RazonButch86 no it's not a myth!
It's called the minimum wage
More migrants = more applicants = lower wages
They come from poor countries where housing is fraction of the cost
Minimum wage in Poland £3.97
Romania about £2
Albania £1
They come here get £11.44 an hour from Monday and they live in HMOs paying £400 a month rent all bills included!
So yes they do work for less that's why my company has just put my wage to £11.77 despite earning hundreds of millions in profit each year
They know a foreigner will take less because it's like a lotto ticket when they go back home
@@RazonButch86 so frankly you need to wake up pal!
The minimum wage benefits big business due to high migration
Wages were high until October 2005 when they slowly tanked due to Eastern Europeans
I bet you are useless af also frustrated af and probably some sort of son/daughter from a different immigrant family whos not from east europe@@DontRefuseToVoteThisElection
Polly lost the argument with her opening paragraph. She also needs to get her facts straight: Asylum seekers are not "locked up" in hotels, they are free to move around wherever they want. So apparently 75% of people who have broken the law to get into England are allowed to stay. And Polly wants people to have to work with those same people who have broken the law when they have absolutely no idea who they are and whether they are safe to be around or not, but have already proven that they are happy to break the law and have learned that not only will they get away with it, they are rewarded for it.
If genuinely fleeing in terror for your life, would you be angry about a room in a hotel, being protected by private security, three meals a day and some spending money?!
Which law did they break?
@@lukemclellan2141- illegally entering the country. We have ports with immigration officials where refugees can make themselves known and make a claim for asylum.
@@nagillim7915 why don't the people come through the ports?
@@lukemclellan2141 - because they're already in a safe country so can't claim the French government is going to murder them.
But they want to claim asylum in the UK and not in France. So need to get onto British soil illegally to do so.
I visited England in 1978 and 2018. The English countryside was still the English countryside, but London? London is no longer English.
I know. I grew up in east London. I haven’t been back for decades. It’s a den of *****
I was in London nearly ten years ago. After one day we hired a car and got out.
I was born one street north of Berkeley Square, a hundred yards north of the spot where Queen Elizabeth II was born, right in the heart of London. That London is gone. I can never go home.
Shame on the stupid self centred politicians and establishment. Their turn will come.
Same with Paris, it looks like ME city
I used to be more of a liberal idealist on this issue but the last few years have changed my mind on immigration. You can have too much and it can be too quick. This is an understatement in this country.
You can only help so many people until you end up giving away the very fabric of a country's history, values and future. Yes, I am a moderate talking conservatism. Also, this country is just not in a position to take more and more immigrants, we have all sorts of social, inequality, housing, health and dental care, public service and transport problems.
If you cannot see the warnings of unmanaged immigration in this country because you are a do gooder, you are NOT a do gooder.
Aaron hates having to sit on the same side as neo liberal Polly. 😂😂😂😂
It's the levels of immigration and the quality of people we aren't getting right. When your own culture is disappearing in front of your eyes, the levels are wrong. When your GDP per capita is collapsing, productivity stagnant, the quality is wrong.
Intelligent comment. I think some countries are better at culturally absorbing immigrants than others. Dubai, Hong Kong, Malaysia, USA, Singapore, Australia, Vietnam, India, China, Chile, Brazil, Panama, Seychelles, Mauritius, are good at culturally absorbing immigrants. The UK is bad at it.
The UK needs to stop bringing in conservative sunni islamists. Bring in high quality immigrants and try to inspire them to stay in the UK long term.
@@AnAn___are poles nowadays avoiding UK or even moving out? I got that impression, they rather go to poland than stay in chaos.
@@effexon Perceptive comment. The UK has a very high emigration rate with mass brain drain and emigration of millionaires.
Poland is one of the countries attracting a lot of UK citizens and UK immigrants.
@@AnAn___coz poland among baltics has actually working healthcare system, family friendly society and honest work culture with no tolerance for illegal immigrants. Well this is from estonia but sentiment in poland is very very similar. and polish PM argued this illegal immigrant point, not against any immigrant(anyone could go there and work inside EU country of course... and they have lot of businesses)
First, define what British culture is and then, live it and protect it. If not, it will be replaced. There comes to a point where you cant blame immigrants but only yourself for the state of your house. Brits are still the majority, so you are in charge.
Konstantin is so easy to listen to, he is to the point, no fluff, and makes points in a way people find insightful and amusing. This world needs more people like him.
Easy enough for the simple minded to understand
@@greglyons2526 Even though it seems you are trying to spread your own discontent, I actually agree with you. Not that this was an overly complicated subject, but it takes an intelligent person to make difficult subjects digestible for the average person.
Whilst I do enjoy listening to him, he seems to have developed a tendency to “pause for applause” a little too often. I personally enjoyed Matts contributions more in this debate.
Also, and I disagree with him more broadly, Aaron was interesting to listen to here and did make some good points (despite coming across as a party political broadcast for the Labour Party in his earlier remarks)
If you don't understand the consistent logical errors, he makes, and you just want to feel cathartic about your own point and I can understand you. He sounds like an Onion article to me.
@@tenacioustubbs8358 Yeah, I generally admire Konstantin but the repeated pause for applause threw me off a little this time.
"We need to dramatically lower net immigration to this country to sustainable levels"
Polly - "So you want to deport every immigrant from Britain?"
Please polly
Those were their opening speeches - they were pre-prepared. She wasn't responding directly to the opposition - but just reading her opening statement which was, by the way, quite fair.
The question was whether immigration is bad for Britain. If you decide that it is, then it is reasonable to assume that you would want all immigrants gone. This is the perspective she came from. She pointed out that if all immigrants left, Britain would be in trouble.
You will notice that all panelists agreed that immigration is good for Britain right at the start. The rest of the debate was about how many should come in per year, and what kind of immigrants should come in.
The irony is that most of the audience missed this. Every single panelist said multiple times that they want immigration of 50k to 150k. Then at the end, more people in the audience decided that immigration is bad. Goes to show why Britain has problems. Very few people seem to be able to follow a logical argument.
Just a quick note: Polly is absolutely loaded. She has three houses, one of them abroad as a holiday home. I'm not entirely sure she speaks for the average brit. Just a though. Comments welcome. Thanks
And the value of these properties are going through the roff thanks to.....MASS IMMIGRATION
Champagne socialist
I don't think any one of the panelists is an average Brit, so I don't think that argument gets you very far.
Polly Toynbee is genuinely very funny, like someone from another era. Is she drunk? Pythonesque
Ahh... Unintended comedy. My favourite!
If you watch her segments on 2x speed she's far more bearable.
No, she’s delusional…always has been
No she just ignores facts.
Polly is posh; dont think she's met that many working class people. She'd been seen as snotty and condescending by them.
Because that's what she is.
I doubt that she personally loses out
I'm posh but I think she's a tit. She started off by arguing against a position that I would speculate
Polly had nothing interesting to say, Arron made some good points though.
She was very far from being the most condescending person on that stage!
My parents are immigrants in Canada and I LOVE our English/Canadian history. I hate the pandering to new immigrants and trying to wash the original culture away.
Bastani was the only person who answered the question. Goodwin and Kisin successfully argued that the current model is bad, which most people would agree with, but that wasn't the question. Polly in a way just argued Goodwin and Kisin's points for them.
True true
kisin can be very childish and low-level sometimes too. It's quite disappointing. Idk if he's unable or unwilling to actually engage at a higher level in good faith, but, for whatever reason, he frequently goes for posturing and pablum instead
Wasn’t Bastani the one arguing migration is great but not when the Tories do it? Kisin spent the whole time discussing on a higher level whether immigration is good for Britain, which is what the question was.
Is coffee good for you? Kisin argues that it depends of the dose and the quality of the coffee. And UK has a dose and quality problem with their coffee. How come he didn't answer the question then?
The base question is sorta poor i think. I don't think anyone other than the most hardcore of anti-immigration people would say that "Immigration is bad" in such a broad general way. The argument is that the current form and method is bad, however that wasn't actually the question of the debate.
For the most part, no.
Britain's streets have never looked worse in my lifetime
if you think this is for any reason than 14 years of austerity you’re a fantasist my friend
@@Jimmycricket- So you don’t think the streets look like shit because we are in one of the most unequal societies in the western world, we have over 4 million children in poverty, councils are going bust and the high streets are in decline, public services have been asset stripped and sold off to private companies based halfway round the world who give themselves nice salaries while actual liquid shit is pumped into our rivers?
You don’t think the decisions government make have a domino effect on the cities and towns that make up this country?
Do you have a better explanation for why our streets have never looked worse?
Immigrants is it?
I would argue the only remotely pleasant thing about walking down your average public road in the north or south of the UK is that you are guaranteed to have a nice variety of authentic restaurants and takeaways serving all kinds of international food: Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Turkish, Italian, Greek, Mexican, Jamaican, Portuguese, Argentinian.
If it wasn’t for all that we’d have nothing to eat but chippy tea as we watch this failed state collapse around us. And if you think it’s the immigrants fault that the state is failing, then brother you have not been paying attention. Look where power resides. It’s not with me, it’s not with you, it’s not with the refugee, it’s not with the first-generation, second-generation, third-generation immigrant family. Look who has the power.
@@Jimmycricket- My point is the things you are complaining about are valid, but the buck stops with the people in power.
How can you establish whether adding 10 million people has made a country better or worse? The population of the whole world has absolutely skyrocketed in the last hundred years in comparison to the rest of recorded human history. None of us are in a position to ascribe a moral judgement over whether more is good.
What I am arguing is that all of the complaints we share about the state of this country are not the FAULT of immigration. Of course immigration plays into it, but if you’re going to use NHS being stretched to breaking point - better or worse, the immigrant workforce props up the NHS. Council housing stretched to breaking point? Right to buy and the slowing down of house building. Politicians receiving death threats? Two MPs have been killed by extremists. One was muslim, one was white. How is this relevant in an argument about immigration?
Essentially what I’m trying to say is I feel like we agree more than you think, we just disagree that the root cause is immigration. Immigration is involved, certainly. But the buck stops with who has the power.
Also, having good food to eat is literally one of the greatest pleasures of living. But that’s another debate.
@@jdHaworthThe problems you describe there are all valid but they are not what this debate is about. However, importing millions of people makes these problems worse.
Yes with white crack heads, I totally agree. Deport them NOW
Who told Polly that the topic was: "Tell me you're a moron without telling me you're a moron"?
She works for the guardian and wouldn't expect anything else from that rag
Agreed. Her arguments are poor.
She answered the question. The opposition changed the question to another issue.
something tells me the audience of this particular channel is a tad biased.
Hi. I'm a left wing person. What did she say that was moronic specificly?
If British children looked after their parents till the last breath, you wouldn't need rest homes and elderly care. No more immigrants required. Problem solved.
But they don't, so you do.
Your so right
You don't need immigrants to do anything. It's all false cost cutting & the usual Lefties. Let's say not paying £5 p.h. more .- Instead Let's get an immigrant for less. They claim rent benefit & top up benefits. Need NHS. Bring dependents, have children. On & On. You achieve millions of low educated foreigners who look forward to a pension. Polly - Stupid Woman.
The most appalling thing about this debate is the fact that they organized this very posh debate, but no one thought of getting a third microphone?
It’s like a government run debate.
Most likely on purpose so they can't talk over each other.
Konstantin and Matt killed. They had the room because they speak common sense and are based in reality.
REALLY?
Yeah really !
Well then if you are but this. Then I got a snake oil website I would like you to go too
EXACTLY
Tell me the common sense part of what they said that wasn't just 1/2 of the story.
Mass immigration has been an absolute catastrophe mainly for the British working class, those types who traditionally fought wars & made this Kingdom what it was, those who were the backbone of the country. Open borders have dire consequences..
They served their purpose at the time for the "elite" ruling class.
The same Globalists that forever ruled the world.
Literally 10 seconds into Polly's opening statement and there're multiple glaringly obvious mistakes and misrepresentations.
Why the lady from the Guardian does not embark on a research of how the funds, now being used for illegal immigration and for social help to the families of legal immigrants, could be used to train the British workforce properly? At all levels.
Isn't Polly just lying straight off the bat by declaring the majority of illegals skilled?
She's not lying. Iraq, Eritrea, Afghanistan and Somalia are full to bursting point with veterinary surgeons, software programmers, database engineers, AI engineers, oncologists, dialysis nurses etc. You can't swing a cat in downtown Mogadishu without walloping half a dozen PhDs.
@@baltasarnoreno5973, clearly - just look at the bearded guys with guns strolling in boats up and down the coast of Africa.
Of course she’s lying she works for the Guardian..
Grooming gangs in ever major city in this country!!
"Asian" grooming gangs. Makes you think it's some Chinese or Korean gang, but ir it's Muslim grooming gangs.
This country needs to wake up.
Listening to all the Islamic adverts interrupting this video is insane
Matt absolutely nailed it
I am with Matt and Konstantin! The rest is B.S
Matt was MVP by far. But I'd give the runner up position to The Novara guy. He surprisingly sounded sensible at times which is refreshing. Konstantin gets the award for most cringe performance with his constant pausing for applause that never came. You could practically hear the crickets. Polly gets the award for being the absolute worst.
if they are your ENEMY why are you using RUclips that was invented by multicultural people
@dominionphilosophy3698 I totally agree. The commie should be ashamed. Oh wait a minute will not affect him. Hypocritical.
Well you, belittling that carefully them because they said they were in agreement for most of it.
It’s hardly a debate really. Migration is necessary and unavoidable. However educating, employing and paying British people fairly is integral to a successful British society. This country is being ripped limb from limb by multi-national corporations, tax avoidance and profiteering off of national services.
Didn't Robert Mugabe study at university in the UK, such a great friend Polly.
I want NET 0 Immigration.
That means 100,000 natives can leave to Australia to be replaced by 100,000 Pakistanis
NET negative will be better.
Me too
Net zero means 100,000 natives leave to Australia being replaced by 100,000 foreigners. You want zero immigration. Nil. Nada. Zilch.
@@LS-xs7sg As an Australian what if we had a deal that if 100,000 Brits moved here than 100,000 Aussie's could go there? The problem is not just the numbers, 900,000 permanent arrivals here, it is the cultures of the people arriving. And the guy in the glasses is clueless. We have probably the highest immigration per capita. But it is not increasing our standard of living. We have people and even families, living in cars, despite having decent jobs, because there is no where else for them to live, not just in cities but rurally too. People die outside hospitals waiting just to get inside but the hospitals are too crowded, and nothing to do with covid, it's been like that since immigration became mass immigration thirty years ago.
Loved the moment Polly nearly got laughed off stage
Whereas I noticed nobody laughed once at the comedian Konstantin Kisin.
@@freebornaiden7666 I wonder if you also noticed this wasn't a comedy gig.
@@daniel.lopresti So why was KK attempting to make jokes then?
I didn't, I thought it was rude and mean-spirited. She was pointing out that basically only Russia has left the ECHR because they were kicked out, and stating that Brexit has been a disaster, which is a neutral fact. I guess the people in the audience who voted for it didn't like to hear it.
It's insulting that Konstantin has to listen to this crap.
KK. He loves it. It was Matt I wanted to listen to.
And everyone else as well.
He is God afterall.
@robinterry9387
The old woman was a waste of everyones time. When high caliber people who could continue being useful are stuck listening to clowns who think calling everyone racist works on anyone with an above room temperature IQ, its insulting to everyone.
Grow up
Does Polly seriously think the native population+ country cant cope without immigrants? Believe it or not, natives are perfectly capable of building houses + nursing etc.... we need to train them + incentivise them to do so... thats the issue
Honestly just stopping Islamic migration would solve the problem overnight, no one complains about as this man said about Hong Kongers, Poles, Ukrainians or other Europeans but there problem stems from people who come to Britain that have a hatred for it from Pakistan, Iraq, Somalia etc.
More like illegal immigration. Most illegal immigrants come from these countries like Somalia, Libya, Syria and other Middle Eastern nation
Discriminating in a person's eligibility to immigrate because of his religion or race is a violation of immigration law in all countries of the world, I believe, with the exception of the State of Israel, which requires that the immigrant be Jewish or of Jewish origin.
@@MuyassarMostafa... so? you're operating off a model that basically emerged from Christian charity and nobody here is even Christian anymore anyway. sinking your own ship to try and save others helps nobody. Islam refuses to take responsibility for its toxic elements and refuses to have a reformation so it can co-exist with first world values so what exactly is going to happen long term...? it isn't pretty
@@MuyassarMostafa Then it is time to change the law. We had enough of Mustafas and Mohammeds in EU. Coming from fail states just to ruin normal states.
@@MuyassarMostafaIndia’s constitution discriminates, because the same rules should not be applied to classes of people who do not agree to share the rules of others.
Stupid glasses ✅
Finger waggling condescension ✅
Immediate straw-man argument ✅
Yeah we're dealing with a Guardian Journo. Nauseating
Here’s an idea… train Brits
Who, the iPad kids? They can't even use correct English in a sentence. Parents don't bring up their kids properly anymore, foreign or not.
Exactly, invest in Brits and not import cheap labour!!!
@@FormulaProgI'm English, can trace my family back to the Norman conquest. I'm bringing up my son alone since divorcing my abusive hysband. My son has good morals, ethics, good grades at school and is in the top sets for all subjects. I work as well. Your opinion is wrong. Parents who are doing a shit job of parenting aren't exactly getting support to do better when both parents have to work to keep food on the table and are constantly told they're shit because they're British, and constantly being put below criminal foreigners. Maybe if the government brought in financial support for us to have enough of our own babies AND be able to bring them up ourselves rather than having to put them into childcare for 8 hrs a day, we could fill all the posts that need filling. And that includes paying a LIVING wage so we dont need to take in work benefits. Maybe if they had built enough houses instead of restricting supply, we'd be able to afford to buy our own houses. But no, people like you, who I'm assuming are a boomer or similar, are sitting pretty in your houses that you bought when mortgages were affordable, looking down on the rest of us who came after you. Hang your head in shame your horrible twat.
Oh come on! Next you'll be saying we should build houses for British people.
Labour shut the training colleges!
There is no point in debating whilst you have no say in the matter. Mass immigration is being foisted onto European peoples against their will. Let's discuss the reasons why this is.
👀👀
Great point.
Well said.
Those providing accommodation at taxpayers expense are becoming ever more wealthy
@@catscan2022 of course
To Pollys point about migrants, being unaware of employment and benefits, I can only say that here in the US migrants come here with their cell phones, and their apps, fully aware of the benefits they will get from government and from a variety of NGO‘s. In fact, many of them enter and leave and re-enter under a different name so that they can collect multiple benefits from multiple sources. This has been reported on by the esteemed war correspondent Chuck Holton.
Surely it's a matter of scale - immigration in small numbers of people who integrate into our society is fine as it's not going to alter the structure and nature of our country.
That bridge has passed. It needs to stop now.
I’m in the mass deportation crowd. GDP isn’t a pagan god
Deport who though? Students? Key workers?
@@user-zm3px2qj4mIllegal or purely economic migrants, and any non-nationals who are a tax drain. I.e on benefits or not contributing as much as they are costing the national money pot.
You know, the way almost every single country runs.
As an Australian I agree. We have some who have committed horrendous crimes, but don't get sent back. GDP increases the governments borrowing capacity, but it doesn't improve living standards per capita.
"
@61shirley
2 hours ago
I’m in the mass deportation crowd. GDP isn’t a pagan god" Wouldn't this mean that the UK rapidly devolves into a middle income country comparable to Mexico? Wouldn't this mean massive tax increases, spending cuts, massively lower real wages and incomes, and a UK almost entirely owned and controlled by foreigners? A per capita income lower than Malaysia, Eastern Europe, or almost every European country?
Is this really what you want?
@@grannyannie2948 Immigration increases per capita income because immigrants outperform multi-generational locals.
Matt Godwin is a once in a ageneration type of thinker, speaker, and leader. I hope he becomes extremely well known in this country and gets into politics. I would vote for him in a heartbeat.
lol grifter more like
@@nawaz345lol, yeah, hur hur. Grifter more like, hur hur.
What is it with more conservative leaning people and just being so hyperbolic.
You see it on Jordan Peterson videos all the time. Can we just chill out? Godwin is a run of the mill conservative fella, relax.
I like him but also do have a niggling wonder about his motivations. Totally understand him wanting to monetise his time but, to truly project his message to the widest possible audience, where it might have the most impact, this would surely be better accomplished via publishing his articles in the public domain rather than behind a paywall. Is his motivation truly to solve the problem or to make money from it?
Wasn’t it Matt who followed Tommy Robinson during his EDL days, seemingly on the premise of unbiased reporting, later to ‘stab Tommy in the back’ by publishing a damning article in The Guardian?
Haha he’s a grifter 😂😂😂
One of my annoyances is when people use acronyms without explaining them first. So for the benefit of the viewers: European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), Conservative Campaign Headquarters (CCH) and European Research Group (ERG). It's lucky we have the Internet these days!
Thank you!
Jeff Bezos once made his team sit through an uncomfortable 10 minute wait for customer service based on anecdotes that the wait for customer service was very long despite his team telling him waits were under a minute.
Jeff's lesson: when anecdotes clash with what you're measuring, take it seriously. That woman saying anecdotes are worthless has never had to do anything of value in her life. She's probably just been living her idealogue life based on public funds for her whole adult life.
Wish we could find such civilized debates here in USA. Bless you Brits.
Actually I disagree, you've got guns!
@@bulltraderpt right
I've watched Christopher Hitchins and Sam Harris debating. You do ok in the USA.
Soon, debates like this will be illegal here. :(
i quite like the way debates are handled in the northen africa/middle east countries that the migrants are coming from...
I would like Aaron Bastani and Polly Toynbee to declare whether they have an vested interest in the very lucrative immigration industry, I want to know if they really believe that importing 3rd world unskilled people who don't share culture, religion or language into a society like Britain really is beneficial or whether they are simply continuing some grift because it benefits their career or them financially and socially.
have a look at the debate, Bastani was actually for control, unlike Polly...
This assunes that most British people have a grasp on culture 😂
I wouldnt put Bastani in the same boat as Polly. Polly is just unhinged - the classic white female liberal
@markoarcabic aron has a child now so is starting to realise that his fully automated socialism would just be another bloodstained utopia once achieved
What do you mean by the "lucrative immigration industry".
I thought it was fascinating that Aaron, at the end, ended up agreeing that immigration ought to be, hugely, brought down.
This was really good - with Konstantin and Matt being a part of it, that’s a given.
Of they stopped paying to accommodate ILLEGAL immigrants they may be able to put all that money into the care system and infrastructure..hospitals schools dentists the health care system
Exactly. When they said eight million a day to house migrants I thought how many nurses would that pay for in nursing homes.
It's not that simple. You have to stop them coming in in the first place or else failing to accomodate them will just force them into crime or begging on the streets
Legal immigration costs us 10’s of billion a year as well
@@forret Ofcourse it does. Even if they contribute by working, it's still constant catch up, building more roads, houses, hospitals and schools.
And that £8,000,000 figure is out of date now, it was correct last year. Now, it's reckoned to be about £12,000,000, and even higher by some.
We need to think about dividing the country up into a traditional nation and the civic model of the nation. The metropolitan liberal class simply don’t have the moral right to transform the ethnic character of the country.
My thoughts too
National divorce sounds bliss!
Those types believe that they and their ideology will be in charge in this brave new world they are creating. They are in for a BIG shock.
Goodbye Britain. It was nice knowing you.
good, if you don't like it you can get out
@@user-qh6fp3di6hthere's a certain demographic that's screwing the natives.
NOT ALL IMMIGRANTS ARE THE SAME.
Polly can't hear... Can't get an appointment at the DRS for a hearing aid😂😂😂
She can't: Too many immigrants in the queue already. 😅
😂😡😜👍
most likely, the doctor is a migrant too and they paid someone in their homecountry to get their medical degree and license...
Konstantin - you're not getting the laughs you deserve! Strange audience. Excellent speech, Konstantin!! I think Polly is off the mark.
And so is the spectator presenter Kate also. She and Polly are of the same ilk.
It might be better to lay off the jokes, when discussing a serious subject.
@@davidpryle3935he’s a stand up comedian that people love to hear him speak because he’s right on 90% of what he says.
She is a fool.
The Epstein joke fell a bit flat (over done I would say) but other than that he was getting laughs,
Polly is the kind of person who really does not deserve a public platform.
Great speech from Konstantin but my god Matthew Goodwin that was a show stopping speech
International nurses are definitely not trained to our NHS standards, care is appalling
same applies to engineering from trades to white collars. They're appalling and never worth the hastle I've seen machine shops take on these migrants claiming theyre gona sort all their problems out only to discover the truth and lay them all off within half a year. All it boiled down to is our communities were destroyed and im sure this applies to every other industry.
It's been revealed many of them are fake, other people sat their exams. And don't forget the old lady that died because her carers couldn't communicate with paramedics.
Medical qualification fraud is rife.
I'm Australian and we have the same problem. Even if they are adequately trained if you are very ill, or injured, you don't want a nurse you can't communicate with easily.
Your right, something we are all noticing
Honestly, how tf can we still possibly be asking this.
Because there are different perspectives on it?
Polly is the political and debate equivalent of a flat earther.
No. A controlled very small number of immigration is good, a few thousands. But the number now is beyond a joke. No wonder our services are under pressure, can't get a seat on a train, can't get a dentist, can't get a house, and our green fields are disappearing. It's horrendous.
I had a seat on a train today, managed to get an NHS dental appointment without being a registered patient and have a mortgage. You are spouting daily mail bullshit and have no basis for these dangerous, moronic assertions.. cretin.
@@dannytoots6635Where do you live Danny Boy? The only way I can get dental appointments for where I live is through a dental plan.
@@Locke350 just by Bloomsbury Square in London and Cambridge up until last year. If you need an emergency NHS appointment you can get it via 111.
@@Locke350 and don’t blame it on immigration 😂 blame it on chronic underfunding. Stop buying into the Tory/tabloid narrative.
@@dannytoots6635 There you go, in well-off places. And not everyone can just call for emergency appointments at the last minute as a lot of people have weekday jobs.
If you water down wine so much it ends up not being wine anymore. The Uk is on a fast track to being a big mess if cultures, not one unifying culture that everybody wants to join. No, it’s been detrimental to the people of the British isles and it’s already diverse cultures of England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Nothing could be clearer when you listen to the hateful speech by Hanza Yusef at his disgust at too many white people being in Scottish parliament.
'Hunza Yusef' - It spoke volumes enough when you spoke nonsense about his speech and how you along with many others took it out of context but misspelling the man's name is hardly a surprise either, either stupidity or something a lot more worse.
@@robertryan6782Can you explain the context please.
Being White is an immutable characteristic. A rant against white people in a white country is the anti white racism that seems to get a free pass by woke progressives. Just replace White with Black if it helps you understand.
@robertryan6782 No, it was very easy to understand Humza Useless hatred for white people. He didn't like white people in positions of power. He needs to be voted out at the next election, and I think the SNP are on a drubbing like the tories.
And what's the context of a lack of non white people in high positions in Scotland that is 96 % white ? Humza either can't do maths or he's a racist.
How did Britain function before 1997 then ?
The rise of the rest is far more obvious now.
people used to have kids
@@Bruteforce765And affordable housing.
@@Bruteforce765 you are nearly there! Why are kids being taught what they are with the gender nonsense? Why are women taught to prioritise work over a family? Why not do as other countries have done and incentivise children?? Why are all the people in charge brown???
Britain prior to 1997 was a lot more localised. There was a bent to buy locally produced goods because the logistics of importing goods did not exist at the same scale. As time progressed we have looked more outwardly for our solutions. A downstream by-product of that is culture takes less of a primary role in society. Globalisation by 1997 started to play a major role in the UK. UK standard of living is higher than it's ever been when you look at statistics to do with poverty and wealth. UK has become a less productive economy. The countries population is small to begin with, there is a moat (English channel), the working class has shrunk and the middle class has grown (much like what China is experiencing now), and we have an aging population that means we need young people to ultimately prevent the economy from collapsing within itself.
Not unconditional immigration. It's funny, britain voted brexit to keep foreigners out but there were never so many when in the EU.
Curious that the Rowanda Policy seems to have had an overnight effect with illegals leaving the UK and ending up in Eire. I wonder what Poly thinks about that? 🤔
Polly T - 'Let them work straight away"
What's the point in having a work visa system at all? If absolutely anyone can break into the country and are then able to work. 🤦♂️
I despair.
She's a rat
I mean just throw passports away and have no airport checks altogether
@@DarkAngel2512I see you’ve been watching the videos of the USA southern border with the piles of discarded passports from people who flew to Mexico from China and then walked into California.
@@OkTxSheepLady no. I havent. Interesting
What kind of work was she envisioning for "asylum seekers"? Is there much of a call for digging trenches? Just curious what kind of work people are qualified for when they can't speak English, and have no paperwork at all, never mind academic or even school-leaving credentials? Just curious if she would, for example, want a young man like that looking after her grandchildren?
Disaster.
Worst thing ever and thye wont go away.
Konstantin was clearly the most intelligent person in this conversation. Excellent work
He is a complete and utter tool
Putting a high price on a genuine marriage is truly evil.
It’s actually crazy how we’re still debating this, our country is collapsing , it will get to a point of no return. We need to stop this, our lives are at risk, our health care is declining , our culture is being taken away from us
This will lead to complete extinction of the British people.
It is impossible to reverse now. The best that can be done is immediate net Zero Immigration for at least 100 years in the West. Then, and only then, can we encourage the many inappropriate immigrants to return to their Homelands and start a process of grieving and repair.
And we the British did nothing to defend our lifestyle and society…
Haha...are you also looking for a ratcatcher to emerge? Perhaps named Adolf?
there will be a far right backlash because we are not going to turn this tide back in any more measured way, and it's inevitable that if it continues it will get to breaking point
So Polly is going with we can't just get rid of immigrants, who would cut our lawns?
And serve our coffee.
All she is a typical Champagne Socialist, Woke LEFTIE.
I'd like to hear Polly's argument as to what will happen in 5-10 years time when AI and automation takes over many of the low-skilled jobs she insists we need immigrants for. When drones are delivering takeaways, and bots are cutting lawns what will happen then? Does she think life will be simple and peaceful when millions of unemployed low-skilled people are without purpose?
The debate topic is wrong. "Immigration" is good.
Uncontrolled immigration is bad.
The guy with the glasses, the 3rd speaker, talked a lot of rubbish. I am a UK citizen that went to live in Switzerland in 1997. Yes Switzerland has many immigrants but many/most come explicitly for a particular job that someone in Switzerland can’t fill. Consequently, most of those who come and live there are highly educated graduates! The other thing about Switzerland is that for low skilled jobs people come in and get 6 month permits. Once the permit expires one must leave the country.