@@jomonger-g1f Google is your friend, but in a nutshell notes are derived as ratios. 1:1 is an octave 2:1 is a 5th and so on, and the major third doesn't fit that as an integer.
Strings can be in tune while open, but if intonation is bad, the notes will be bad. Check each string in each fret and see how close or off each note is. The worse it is, the bigger problem you have with intonation. Could be the nut, warp in the neck, bulge of the belly at the bridge, or bridge height. Check out twoodford guitar’s channel, he talks a lot about the specific maths and geometry needed to achieve well adjusted intonation.
No, it isn't, he's confused or sensationalising quarter tones. G sharp and A flat are the same sound frequency, exactly the same. The differentiation is there for relevance, in most well organised sheet music, accidentals(or naturals, which will make sense in a second) are only noted when they're outside of the key, otherwise each note is declared sharp flat or neither on the key signature, and any time a note is played you sharpen or flatten accordingly unless told otherwise. It's not that the notes are ever mesnt to be different, it's just a case of stepping up from G or down from A. There's more to being in tune fretting a note than just tuning and setting intonation, even if the guitar is set up flawlessly, how much pressure you put on the string, how far your finger is from the fret, whether or not you have a little lateral tension on the string(like a tiny little bend you dont mean to do), or if you're effecting the bow in the neck will all make tiny changes to the sound frequency. Shit, even temperature has an effect thanks to thermal expansion, but that usually isn't an issue at home, only if you're under stage lighting that heats up the strings/neck. These things are still cool though, just it's completely flase that a standard guitar is mashing together G sharp and A flat from anything other than the exact frequency vibration rate they both are.
@@lemonsneeker You are correct in equal temperament (aka 12-TET), but just intonation is more natural and sounds more in tune to our ears -- and in just temperament, just as Brandon explains, G# and Ab are *not* identical, but merely close. Read up a bit more on just intonation -- and there are tons of other tuning systems, not just those two. The reason we use equal temperament is that it's impossible to make a guitar (or piano) that can play in every key with just temperament. If you make a C major guitar or piano, it will sound out of tune playing in other keys. In equal temperament, all keys sound equally in tune, or equally out of tune, whichever you prefer. A major third in just intonation has a frequency ratio of 5:4, so for example an A at 220 Hz would have its third at exactly 275 Hz. In equal temperament, it's instead 220 * 2^(4/12) or about 277.18 Hz. That's a decent difference, and indeed as the video shows, it can easily be heard. Indeed, for the frequency to be the same in 12-TET, instead of going up by 400 cents as you typically would, you would need to go up by just 386 cents, so it's about 14 cents out-of-tune according to our ears (and the harmonic series).
@@exscape I didn't think we used the harmonic series outside of harmonics/synth tones for a good while now, where would you actually use that? Maybe accompanying sax etc where there's some weird tuning going on?(i don't know much about them but i know they're weird) Anyway thank you, I'll admit you're right and i was only thinking within the bounds of equal temperament, I'm still picking up on harmonic series, but don't usually think about it on the actually playing music end of the stick.
"Tastino" literally means "little fret" in italian... so it's like it doesn't have a proper name, but it still wants to be called something fancy to be different lol
@@oscargill423 now that you make me think about it, you have a point 😅 It's kinda funny tho, here in Italy it's kinda the way around, when talking about "more contemporary" music: a lot of english terms used instead of the italian ones
I taped something called a ‘dorito’ to my guitar, that means I can use it as a pick for an extra crunchy sound or I can eat it when I get hungry in the middle of a gig.
A bit of education for y’all: So modern instruments are built using equal temperament, meaning that the distance between notes ( which is measured in cents) is equal. For example, the distance between an A and an A# is the same as an A to a B or B to Bb. This is mostly why we can say that A# and Bb are the same note. This used to not be the case for a long time, and musicians used to tune their instruments to fit a certain key. This is called just intonation. They did this because of the way the structure of a chord works. The intervals between any note and the fundamental of that chord (usually the bottom note) are in a perfect mathematical ratio like 4:3 or 3:2. So just tuning would tune the notes exactly to this ratio and all the chords you would plan to play would sound perfect. However, equal temperament essentially tunes each note to a set value regardless of the key you play in, allowing you to play in all keys without having to refine your instrument. So all notes would be in tune enough to sound good in all keys, but not in the exact intervals like just tuning. Being able to split a fret of a guitar into two different notes would allow you to play more in the exact intervals that just intonation would allow or play in equal temperament. And because the note is split in two, you can call one A# and the other Bb. Outside western musical traditions, people have created musical systems with half sharps and half flats that sound similar to this, but it’s not quite the same thing. The tuning for that system is more exact.
@@austinsatterfield6792 My g, I don’t understand the vitriol. This is *in case* someone didn’t know, and also someone would maybe find it interesting like I do. I didn’t want to come off like I’m some expert or that it’s something super niche that no one knows.
We actually use this on the viola da gamba. Many gamba players have two "first frets", which allow them to play either a sharp note or a flat note. Some viola da gamba players will also put their fret in a "bent" way (since viola da gamba frets are just strings, they are adjustable), to account for either sharp or flat notes
That explains why the g string always sounds sharply out of tune whenever I play a chord. I constantly have to compromise the tuning of that one string to get a well tuned chord
Tsss, you shouldn't play with g string, it's for girl. Just joking, do as you please, I have the same issue on some of my guitars and in particular with the SG.
Its usually the B string that sounds the most out of tune. You can intentionally flatten it a bit and it sounds better, but maybe not in chords where the note on the B string is not a major 3rd. Difficult balance, this is why some use "sweetened" tunings where you would make every string slighty sharp or flat so that it sounds more in tune.
@@matthewjamesfrost9923 "'into Nate a" as a non-native English speaker, it took about 60 sec to understand what you wrote. Actually, I think what I need is a new set of ears, the intonation of my guitare is fine. Thank you anyways.
You should get a guitar like the one Tolgahan Çoğulu uses, with movable frets, so you can get any particular tuning you want including True Temperament
I always wondered why I thought E major sounded awful, but when my G string would stretch it’d sound fine, except everything else you want to play now sounds flat. The solution is called TRUE TEMPERAMENT FRETS
@@Malc180s you can be perfectly in tune at the nut and fret a chord at the 9th that sounds like ass. Bud I’ve played for over 25 years and I’m not even 30 yet. I can tune by ear to perfect pitch, so when something is a few cents off I notice it, I don’t need a tuner to confirm it however it does confirm it, note by note
That’s not the case. G# and Ab are the same note enharmonically, meaning in equal temperament they are the same pitch. Ask any violin/viola/cello player worth their salt and they will tell you that a G# is not even the same pitch to itself, depending on the key, interval, and context.
I used to set my music students the following problem: when the best piano tuner on Earth has tuned a piano, is it in tune? The answer is both yes and no. Yes, because the piano has to be out of tune for it to work on a 12 tone system, and No, because it's out of tune with itself for not being tuned to the cycle of 5ths. It's a killer conundrum, and it spells out why on a piano, B flat and A# are the same note but aren't on a violin.
The amount of copium from people who think this is a tuning issue is unfortunate. Look up temperaments if you think that G# and Ab are always the same pitch
But now you are out of tune for the rest of the notes because those frets are in equal temperament so it only works if you also move the frets or don't use the other notes on that string
Guitar is an equal temperment instrument. The trouble is when we tune with a tuner we tune perfectly. But equal temperment is slightly out everywhere. If you tune by ear off of the 5th fret you have the same problem. Do that and then play f# diminished and it will sound horrible. To tune in equal temperment there is a trick. Tune from the 5th fret. Then check the octave on the 7th fret of the next string. Then detune the note so the string sounds good vs the fifth fret and then the octave on the 7th fret. You have to tune half way between to where both sound good. That is equal temperment. Then it is tuned like a piano.
Yes, modern guitars are in equal temperament but that wasn't true pre-1800 with moveable frets. That is what I'm showing in this short clip that comes from a bigger video which is very in-depth.
I understand that. When I tune with a tuner I find that F # diminished sounds terrible to me. but when I tune it in equal temperment everything sounds good. likewise with tuning in other temperments things will sound good in the intended key but in other keys everything sounds out of tune. But in the right key the intervals will be perfect and sound better. This stuff could drive you mad if you don't know what is going on here. When I first started playing I tuned with a tuner and the 3rd string always sounded off. It literally drove me mad. Then years later I learn3d about temperments and learned to tune it a little lower.
They are functionally enharmonic. There is some tiny difference in frequency between them but the same is true when playing the same note on a different string (e.g., E played on the 1st string vs the second). In equal temperament, they are the same and the difference is purely academic. There are contexts (temperaments) where Ab is higher than G# and vice versa. Still, neat idea with the sticks and tape.
In regards to sour open chords , i understand that a way of solving these problems can be done by adding a zero fret. This is where a normal fret resides in the typical nut position and the nut behind has the purpose of keeping the strings aligned and guided in path towards the tuners. This problem is because the string sits in the nut in a taller position off the fingerboard than the fretted notes do. By pressing down a note at the first fret, the string is bent a little sharper. The angle the string bends around the nut is much more than on higher frets. Henceforth, the micro fret being further towards the nut, compensates for this. This makes me wonder if a classical guitar has ever been made with a zero fret.
A zero fret might help with some things, but it doesn’t actually solve this problem. This tuning problem isn’t just with open strings nor is it just with guitars. It’s part of 12 tone equal temperament itself. Even on a piano, the fifths of a chord will be slightly flatter than in equal temperament and with a trained ear you can tell that they’re just a little bit out of tune. It’s the same with major thirds except those will be sharper. I’m not a guitarist so I don’t know exactly how a zero fret helps as opposed to just a traditional nut, but you can’t fix these tuning problems without some sort of microtones in order to change the tuning system.
@@simonhill5650 Ok... This is for the accuracy of open chords, which is where you are confused in a way. If you want to alter the open position with micro frets, that is sometimes you apply across the entire fretboard. There are many guitars like that. You said yourself that you aren't a guitarist. With guitars I have built and in agreement with other sources out there, if the vertical travel of the string when fretted, is minimised by the nut, you reduce the angle and large increase in tension that affects the pitch.
@@kentl7228 you can think im wrong if you want but this just isn’t for open chords. It’s for changing the tuning system. All of his frets are positioned differently.
@@simonhill5650 I don't think you are wrong and I completely understand what you are talking about. But my comment means or infers .. 1: The point is that this video is about chords in the OPEN POSITION, not all over the neck. I was commenting on such matters. 2: To manufacture guitars with squiggly frets to give exact compensation is expensive. Guitars will continue to be made with standard frets and the noticeable problem is usually tuning at the open position, which was the point of his video. 3: It costs little to add a zero fret during manufacture, with the purpose keeping the height intonation along the fingerboard, consistent at open strings. That was the suggestion of my comment for manufacturing guitars to solve sour open chords. 4. Most open tuning problems are often due to the nut be being too tall at the open position. You are telling me something, as if I don't understand, when it is impractical for mass, economical manufacturing and can be solved more easily for the usual problem which is open chords. Expert guitar players all over the world may enjoy trying a compensated fingerboard guitar, but you don't often see them. The music being played sounds fine and a guitar tech or luthier will be concerned with consistent fret height and a properly carved nut.
One of the reasons I love newer digital organs like the one that Cameron Carpenter plays is that you can set the key you're in so the notes are tuned properly for that key center. It's actually why many pipe organs have good keys for them and bad ones.
12 bar symphonic^s: as a measure for diverse instruments: Accapella poetic perfection_please instructional^clarity: clarinets and rhythmic throat-singing (my specialty/favorite)
To everyone obsessing about this thing: just practise and learn to appreciate the emotional aspect of this, music will never be "perfect" in all aspects, it's what we try to communicate that's important. A regular guitar is fine.
As a violist that didnt get very far, i never understood why guitars chords felt disonant to me until you explained theyre in equal temperment. I dont know why im more sensitive to it on guitars vs pianos. Maybe because its against me and i feel it? Who knows
Just look at the massive distance between the tastino and the 1st fret. It's like 1/4 of a half step. That's how fundamentally effed the instrument is to begin with
I always tune the b string flat to do this. If you're playing major then use the b string for your third, if you're playing minor then use the b string for your root.
This won't get you very far. The frets are tuned in equal temperament so if you'd like to use the frets on the B string, you'll find they will be out of tune.
@@brandonacker correct. If you're trying to play a song written by someone else, then it's not incredibly practical. But if you're writing your own song with it, then you could choose to dance around the b string and avoid it, or you could use it when you want to go a little flat. It becomes another tool in your box to fuel your creativity
Worth noting that the intonation on a standard guitar has neither of those intervals(notes). Your G#/Ab is somewhere between those which is why it’s particularly harsh on the Ab. Also, when doing backing vocals it’s a good idea to focus on the singer rather than accompaniment for pitch reference. If you sing the interval most people with a decent ear and some experience singing, at least in my experience, will gravitate toward proper intonation. Not sure if it’s just voices with each other or any single pitch reference, but I think the physical engagement and timbral similarity make it easier to hear the out of tune-ness of equal temperament intervals. In general just the understanding that intonation is flexible is probably under appreciated given the rock/blues tendency towards using neutral thirds shows up very commonly as a stylistic choice in popular music, at least until the era of ubiquitous pitch correction software.
Because equal temperament allows you to play in all keys and temperaments limit you to specific keys. Watch my full video "why guitarists used to play more in tune "
@@brandonacker so why didn't microtonal frets become common? that way you could (Correct me if I'm wrong on this assumption) have every temperament availiable?
@@dantheman8503 The dominant type of frets until 1800 were tied on gut that were moveable and often put in temperaments. However only certain temperaments (mostly meantone) work on fretted plucked instruments so you'll always be limited to certain keys but can move frets around depending on what key you are in. That is exactly what I do when I play music pre-1800. In the 19th cent. fixed metal frets became common and playing in all 24 keys became desirable so temperaments lost their appeal for practicality. It has been the standard in Western music ever since.
@@brandonacker Here is the question of hearing, which turns out to need to be developed :) And how would it be more convenient for me to just draw dots or rulers as frets, as for example they do when studying non-fret instruments (for example, double bass)
I dont think so. No violinist can play a chord progression as in tune as a mediocre guitarist. They are different tools that do different things. If you are playing harmonically, playing a fretless would be a mistake. Melodocially, its an advantage
@@brandonacker I was talking about drawing dots that will not differ in any way from frets with the slightest practice, because you look at the neck and see them. And violinists also play chords and intervals quite accurately. For example, we want to play something like Jacob Collier, the transition from diatonic chords to microtonal chords, there will be a whole progression.
I understand but you don't play by looking when you are advanced. You play by feel. You feel the frets and the guide you to help play chords. Even with lines (I've done it) you won't ever play nearly as in tune with ease.
Because a guitar has fixed frets it means it uses equal temperament- in which every note is roughly equally wrong-it’s a compromise system. It’s why you can’t tune a guitar so you can play a perfect C chord and then an E chord. Impossible. This is a fantastic solution. Good for Cmajor and A minor pieces where the minor dominant 7th has the G#.
There's a story of a popular musician/guitarist, who almost never made live gigs. Allegedly his records were a nightmare for the editor since he wanted to tune his guitar again after a few chords again and again.
I knew about semi tones but this is cool! Always loved how guitars work with the frets and lengths of strings with different thickness vibrating out. So when you fret the Low E string up like 5 frets its the same note as the A ringing open. Its all about the vibration. Two different lengths of string creating the same thing
An FYI: semitones are the intervals found when moving from one fret to the next, or when playing adjacent keys on a keyboard. Semitone and half-step are synonymous. The concept Brandon is talking about is called microtones, which are intervals smaller than a half-step/semitone. I was going to write more about this but it is too complicated for the comments. If you are interested, check out "equal temperament", "just intonation", and "musical key".
you are the only person I know that has the patience to put GUT frets on a classical guitar and lemme tell ya thats something cus Ive studied vihuela and theorbo since I was 7 and no one out of the many lutenists and viola da gamba players Ive met has the patience to deal with their gut frets and they dont have alternatives. You do, you could have beautiful and rigid metal frets that dont decompose after two weeks of playing yet you have the balls to put the most annoying type of fret that I've tried on your guitar. AMAZING
@@RedHair651 not really, they just kinda succ, the only reason I would get an instrument with gut frets, which I have multiple of, would be historical accuracy
@@thodgounaris4223 wrong, once you tie them, you tie them for one position and you can move them down but they'll be loose and you might be able to move them up but then they won't go back to their place because they stretched
Interesting! I never thought of doing this on a guitar even though I donit on my tepet all the time! Trumpeters extened there ring finger to push out the third valve slide when playing notes with a 1-3 or 1-2-3 fingering. 2-3 fingerings don't need it.
Wouldn't the resonate vibrations inside the piano clean that issue up as long as you stay inside the given temperment? Granted the guitar makes the difference shine a bit more, it reminds me of the slight bend my bass teacher told us to put in blues scales ⚖️ as they were also based in human voices which can hit sub frequency that instrument have a difficulty finding.
Some keyboards actually had split keys so you could choose which note to play. But no the difference in pitch is not covered up by resonance. It's actually amplified by that resonance.
I am a beginner in music theory, and my understanding was G#==Ab, same key on the piano, but you showed the difference between G# and Ab. I am so confused. BTW. Great channel, I am interested in electric guitar but you channel is so informative, so many excellent hints. Great work.
Thanks! Yes you need to watch the full video to understand. It's different if you play in a temperament. FULL VIDEO: ruclips.net/video/tiKCORN-6m8/видео.html
@@JavierPwnsstring players will play G# not the same as Ab exactly as is illustrated here. They do it because it sounds more resonant and in pitch and they can easily do so (no frets). Especially in a string quartet where others are playing other notes in the harmony.
See my comment. It explains why a sharp or flat are in music theory. Hopefully my attempt to describe this music theory fact will clear up anyone that is confused about this. Here's one for you all, its another really amazing facts about music theory that just is. The C Major 6th chord (CEGA) is also the Am7 chord (ACEG)....YEP, I KNOW HOW CONFUSING BUT ALSO SO COOL. Here's another for you all...in the key of C Major, the F note is the 4th in the key (CDEF....1234). Now, in the key of F, the C note is the 5th (FGABbC...12345). Wait, now I could blow your minds with the secret chord mathmatical shortcut, but it's something I need feedback from you all to explain it, but it's super unknown. Even piano players that have played for 30 years have never figured this amazing trick I personally discovered many years ago. I have yet to see any piano teachers in the world show this little secret I figured by accident one day.
A flat and g sharp are not different, they are 2 names for the same thing. We use them both in their relative context but when it comes to this, you simply have a g sharp and A flat split up at a higher and lower frequency of vibration. We don’t really have names for those other than microtones.
I mean it’s not technically wrong with just intonation (which I assume is what he’s using) while yeah it’s misleading I still understood what he was getting at. Because if you play what he’s calling an Ab in let’s say an Fm chord that note will sound consonant. But if you play what he’s calling a G# on that chord it will not sound in tune
His vocabulary in the video is a little strange, basically any major 3rd should be a little flatter than equal temperament, but if say you were trying to play a C# chord with a G# as the 5th, it wouldn’t need to be as flat, so it’s not like THAT IS G#, but rather in the instance of an E major chord, the G# should be a little flat
This is super cool but for it to make sense to actually use you’d have to have a lot more of them on different notes. Otherwise your E chord is tuned justly and others are not.
That chord sounded so lush, my goodness
Tuning is never without the aspect of relativity. The larger the tonal range, the greater the problem. The art of a piano tuner
The real problem is those pesky major thirds
@@gravyblue What is the problem from a technical point of view and where can I read more about it??
@@jomonger-g1f Google is your friend, but in a nutshell notes are derived as ratios. 1:1 is an octave 2:1 is a 5th and so on, and the major third doesn't fit that as an integer.
@@gravyblue that's not a technical point of view.
I wrongly assumed you might know better sources than first Google page.
@@jomonger-g1f No.Sorry
This explains all those times the guitar was allegedly in tune but my ears were in disagreement 😂
Strings can be in tune while open, but if intonation is bad, the notes will be bad. Check each string in each fret and see how close or off each note is. The worse it is, the bigger problem you have with intonation. Could be the nut, warp in the neck, bulge of the belly at the bridge, or bridge height. Check out twoodford guitar’s channel, he talks a lot about the specific maths and geometry needed to achieve well adjusted intonation.
@@Freshwaterconnection thanks for that man :) wasn't an intonation issue, sometimes my ears are way too sensitive lol.
No, it isn't, he's confused or sensationalising quarter tones.
G sharp and A flat are the same sound frequency, exactly the same. The differentiation is there for relevance, in most well organised sheet music, accidentals(or naturals, which will make sense in a second) are only noted when they're outside of the key, otherwise each note is declared sharp flat or neither on the key signature, and any time a note is played you sharpen or flatten accordingly unless told otherwise. It's not that the notes are ever mesnt to be different, it's just a case of stepping up from G or down from A.
There's more to being in tune fretting a note than just tuning and setting intonation, even if the guitar is set up flawlessly, how much pressure you put on the string, how far your finger is from the fret, whether or not you have a little lateral tension on the string(like a tiny little bend you dont mean to do), or if you're effecting the bow in the neck will all make tiny changes to the sound frequency. Shit, even temperature has an effect thanks to thermal expansion, but that usually isn't an issue at home, only if you're under stage lighting that heats up the strings/neck.
These things are still cool though, just it's completely flase that a standard guitar is mashing together G sharp and A flat from anything other than the exact frequency vibration rate they both are.
@@lemonsneeker You are correct in equal temperament (aka 12-TET), but just intonation is more natural and sounds more in tune to our ears -- and in just temperament, just as Brandon explains, G# and Ab are *not* identical, but merely close. Read up a bit more on just intonation -- and there are tons of other tuning systems, not just those two.
The reason we use equal temperament is that it's impossible to make a guitar (or piano) that can play in every key with just temperament. If you make a C major guitar or piano, it will sound out of tune playing in other keys. In equal temperament, all keys sound equally in tune, or equally out of tune, whichever you prefer.
A major third in just intonation has a frequency ratio of 5:4, so for example an A at 220 Hz would have its third at exactly 275 Hz. In equal temperament, it's instead 220 * 2^(4/12) or about 277.18 Hz. That's a decent difference, and indeed as the video shows, it can easily be heard.
Indeed, for the frequency to be the same in 12-TET, instead of going up by 400 cents as you typically would, you would need to go up by just 386 cents, so it's about 14 cents out-of-tune according to our ears (and the harmonic series).
@@exscape I didn't think we used the harmonic series outside of harmonics/synth tones for a good while now, where would you actually use that? Maybe accompanying sax etc where there's some weird tuning going on?(i don't know much about them but i know they're weird)
Anyway thank you, I'll admit you're right and i was only thinking within the bounds of equal temperament, I'm still picking up on harmonic series, but don't usually think about it on the actually playing music end of the stick.
I'm so happy the mini fret has a name
"Tastino" literally means "little fret" in italian... so it's like it doesn't have a proper name, but it still wants to be called something fancy to be different lol
@@IlGudz To be fair, isn't that most music terminology?
@@oscargill423 now that you make me think about it, you have a point 😅
It's kinda funny tho, here in Italy it's kinda the way around, when talking about "more contemporary" music: a lot of english terms used instead of the italian ones
@@IlGudz Cool. So I shall assume that no one will bat an eye when I continue to call little frets "tostitos."
@@zedmelonthis is _exactly_ what I was thinking the whole time! 😂😂
I taped something called a ‘dorito’ to my guitar, that means I can use it as a pick for an extra crunchy sound or I can eat it when I get hungry in the middle of a gig.
That must be this chiptune music I keep hearing about
@@pickyyeeterunderrated comment i wish you a long and healthy life
You can also use Flamin' Hot Doritos to play spicy chords.
😅
A bit of education for y’all:
So modern instruments are built using equal temperament, meaning that the distance between notes ( which is measured in cents) is equal. For example, the distance between an A and an A# is the same as an A to a B or B to Bb. This is mostly why we can say that A# and Bb are the same note. This used to not be the case for a long time, and musicians used to tune their instruments to fit a certain key. This is called just intonation. They did this because of the way the structure of a chord works. The intervals between any note and the fundamental of that chord (usually the bottom note) are in a perfect mathematical ratio like 4:3 or 3:2. So just tuning would tune the notes exactly to this ratio and all the chords you would plan to play would sound perfect. However, equal temperament essentially tunes each note to a set value regardless of the key you play in, allowing you to play in all keys without having to refine your instrument. So all notes would be in tune enough to sound good in all keys, but not in the exact intervals like just tuning. Being able to split a fret of a guitar into two different notes would allow you to play more in the exact intervals that just intonation would allow or play in equal temperament. And because the note is split in two, you can call one A# and the other Bb. Outside western musical traditions, people have created musical systems with half sharps and half flats that sound similar to this, but it’s not quite the same thing. The tuning for that system is more exact.
You realize if someone is watching this they arnt an idiot right? You basically just said "I know the basics like everyone else here"
@@austinsatterfield6792 My g, I don’t understand the vitriol. This is *in case* someone didn’t know, and also someone would maybe find it interesting like I do. I didn’t want to come off like I’m some expert or that it’s something super niche that no one knows.
@@michaelrojas6227 ypu litterally explained basics that everyone knows here
@@austinsatterfield6792 is it a crime to explain the basics? I didn't knew this
@jonnnyoutit487 so you come in here and post the dumbest comment so far?
woow this is the first time i've seen this concept demonstrated in a practical way. Thank you!
We actually use this on the viola da gamba. Many gamba players have two "first frets", which allow them to play either a sharp note or a flat note. Some viola da gamba players will also put their fret in a "bent" way (since viola da gamba frets are just strings, they are adjustable), to account for either sharp or flat notes
That explains why the g string always sounds sharply out of tune whenever I play a chord. I constantly have to compromise the tuning of that one string to get a well tuned chord
Tsss, you shouldn't play with g string, it's for girl.
Just joking, do as you please, I have the same issue on some of my guitars and in particular with the SG.
Well maybe the intonation for that string is off...?
Its usually the B string that sounds the most out of tune. You can intentionally flatten it a bit and it sounds better, but maybe not in chords where the note on the B string is not a major 3rd. Difficult balance, this is why some use "sweetened" tunings where you would make every string slighty sharp or flat so that it sounds more in tune.
Ya’ll just need a good Luthier, who can actually into Nate a guitar
@@matthewjamesfrost9923 "'into Nate a" as a non-native English speaker, it took about 60 sec to understand what you wrote. Actually, I think what I need is a new set of ears, the intonation of my guitare is fine. Thank you anyways.
You should get a guitar like the one Tolgahan Çoğulu uses, with movable frets, so you can get any particular tuning you want including True Temperament
He probably knows that guy, he's quite renowned in the world of microtonality.
“Im not wrong, my instrument is”
You're both wrong
I always wondered why I thought E major sounded awful, but when my G string would stretch it’d sound fine, except everything else you want to play now sounds flat. The solution is called TRUE TEMPERAMENT FRETS
No the solution is get your instrument setup properly and to tune it properly.
@@Malc180s you can be perfectly in tune at the nut and fret a chord at the 9th that sounds like ass. Bud I’ve played for over 25 years and I’m not even 30 yet. I can tune by ear to perfect pitch, so when something is a few cents off I notice it, I don’t need a tuner to confirm it however it does confirm it, note by note
I prefer my tastinos with guac and salsa, but to each their own.
G# And Ab are the same note - that is a mico interval /micro tone - right between the G# and A - middle eastern guitars are full of them
That’s not the case. G# and Ab are the same note enharmonically, meaning in equal temperament they are the same pitch. Ask any violin/viola/cello player worth their salt and they will tell you that a G# is not even the same pitch to itself, depending on the key, interval, and context.
@@solstice871 😂 That’s called bad intonation
@@JeffCdeBacano as in like, a G# in C# major is intonated differently to a G# in E major.
@@JeffCdeBacanah, he’s right. They just don’t teach that until you get more advanced bc it’s confusing to beginners
@@carazy123_EEEEEH! Wrong 😑 again. They’re the same pitch. Are you a flat earther? 😂
First time I see someone work with microtonal music and actually make it work
Micro tonal is so foreign yet so cool. I’m all for proper major 3rds, the best interval!
that E major sound soooo satisfying
It's the same as every other properly tuned E major you've ever heard
@@adamtheduellnot entirely, the G# in this E major chord is about 13.69 cents flatter than the G# in 12-tone equal temperament
@@YoVariable best not to explain to someone who's so confidently incorrect, pearls before swine as they say
I love that this guy had like a relatively intense rock phase, and now he looks like a college professor and a high intellectual.
That is so cool! Need to set the guitar up so that you can push a button or rotate a switch and the mini fret pops up or down as needed.
As an expert in fungi I can undesirably say that this is an amazing innovation
Please do some sort of collab with Tolgahan Cogolu!!!
I used to set my music students the following problem: when the best piano tuner on Earth has tuned a piano, is it in tune? The answer is both yes and no. Yes, because the piano has to be out of tune for it to work on a 12 tone system, and No, because it's out of tune with itself for not being tuned to the cycle of 5ths.
It's a killer conundrum, and it spells out why on a piano, B flat and A# are the same note but aren't on a violin.
This is the first time I've been able to hear the difference between a flat and a sharp. That's incredible
That's actually because there's normally no difference between sharps and flats with equal temperament.
@@Shirikatsu I think my next guitar will be microtonal
Cool. First time I've heard of this. Thanks
i love this guy, i wish all guiyar youtubers wer emore like you
The amount of copium from people who think this is a tuning issue is unfortunate. Look up temperaments if you think that G# and Ab are always the same pitch
Subscribed! I hope to learn much of your classical ways maestro! 😊
Wow that sounds incredible
My solution has always been to tune the g string down a few cents, just by ear. Really helps with those high thirds
But now you are out of tune for the rest of the notes because those frets are in equal temperament so it only works if you also move the frets or don't use the other notes on that string
@@brandonacker just bend it a bit. It’s easier to bend up than down
I just realized this, but the way the tips of your mouth are set up, it looks like you're always smiling.
Guitar is an equal temperment instrument. The trouble is when we tune with a tuner we tune perfectly. But equal temperment is slightly out everywhere. If you tune by ear off of the 5th fret you have the same problem. Do that and then play f# diminished and it will sound horrible. To tune in equal temperment there is a trick. Tune from the 5th fret. Then check the octave on the 7th fret of the next string. Then detune the note so the string sounds good vs the fifth fret and then the octave on the 7th fret. You have to tune half way between to where both sound good. That is equal temperment. Then it is tuned like a piano.
Yes, modern guitars are in equal temperament but that wasn't true pre-1800 with moveable frets. That is what I'm showing in this short clip that comes from a bigger video which is very in-depth.
I understand that. When I tune with a tuner I find that F # diminished sounds terrible to me. but when I tune it in equal temperment everything sounds good. likewise with tuning in other temperments things will sound good in the intended key but in other keys everything sounds out of tune. But in the right key the intervals will be perfect and sound better. This stuff could drive you mad if you don't know what is going on here. When I first started playing I tuned with a tuner and the 3rd string always sounded off. It literally drove me mad. Then years later I learn3d about temperments and learned to tune it a little lower.
They are functionally enharmonic. There is some tiny difference in frequency between them but the same is true when playing the same note on a different string (e.g., E played on the 1st string vs the second). In equal temperament, they are the same and the difference is purely academic. There are contexts (temperaments) where Ab is higher than G# and vice versa. Still, neat idea with the sticks and tape.
In regards to sour open chords , i understand that a way of solving these problems can be done by adding a zero fret. This is where a normal fret resides in the typical nut position and the nut behind has the purpose of keeping the strings aligned and guided in path towards the tuners.
This problem is because the string sits in the nut in a taller position off the fingerboard than the fretted notes do. By pressing down a note at the first fret, the string is bent a little sharper. The angle the string bends around the nut is much more than on higher frets.
Henceforth, the micro fret being further towards the nut, compensates for this.
This makes me wonder if a classical guitar has ever been made with a zero fret.
A zero fret might help with some things, but it doesn’t actually solve this problem. This tuning problem isn’t just with open strings nor is it just with guitars. It’s part of 12 tone equal temperament itself.
Even on a piano, the fifths of a chord will be slightly flatter than in equal temperament and with a trained ear you can tell that they’re just a little bit out of tune. It’s the same with major thirds except those will be sharper.
I’m not a guitarist so I don’t know exactly how a zero fret helps as opposed to just a traditional nut, but you can’t fix these tuning problems without some sort of microtones in order to change the tuning system.
@@simonhill5650 Ok... This is for the accuracy of open chords, which is where you are confused in a way. If you want to alter the open position with micro frets, that is sometimes you apply across the entire fretboard. There are many guitars like that. You said yourself that you aren't a guitarist. With guitars I have built and in agreement with other sources out there, if the vertical travel of the string when fretted, is minimised by the nut, you reduce the angle and large increase in tension that affects the pitch.
@@kentl7228 you can think im wrong if you want but this just isn’t for open chords. It’s for changing the tuning system. All of his frets are positioned differently.
@@simonhill5650 I don't think you are wrong and I completely understand what you are talking about. But my comment means or infers ..
1: The point is that this video is about chords in the OPEN POSITION, not all over the neck. I was commenting on such matters.
2: To manufacture guitars with squiggly frets to give exact compensation is expensive. Guitars will continue to be made with standard frets and the noticeable problem is usually tuning at the open position, which was the point of his video.
3: It costs little to add a zero fret during manufacture, with the purpose keeping the height intonation along the fingerboard, consistent at open strings. That was the suggestion of my comment for manufacturing guitars to solve sour open chords.
4. Most open tuning problems are often due to the nut be being too tall at the open position.
You are telling me something, as if I don't understand, when it is impractical for mass, economical manufacturing and can be solved more easily for the usual problem which is open chords. Expert guitar players all over the world may enjoy trying a compensated fingerboard guitar, but you don't often see them. The music being played sounds fine and a guitar tech or luthier will be concerned with consistent fret height and a properly carved nut.
Mad how tastino translates to button aswell, like its a little button in just the right spot that tightens everything up ❤
One of the reasons I love newer digital organs like the one that Cameron Carpenter plays is that you can set the key you're in so the notes are tuned properly for that key center. It's actually why many pipe organs have good keys for them and bad ones.
That’s so cool. I often tune the g string down a touch for recording an e major. Or tune the b string down for an open g chord
12 bar symphonic^s: as a measure for diverse instruments:
Accapella poetic perfection_please instructional^clarity: clarinets and rhythmic throat-singing (my specialty/favorite)
I ain’t putting a pizza roll on my fretboard thank you.
The history of temperaments is fascinating
Thank you!
To everyone obsessing about this thing: just practise and learn to appreciate the emotional aspect of this, music will never be "perfect" in all aspects, it's what we try to communicate that's important. A regular guitar is fine.
As a violist that didnt get very far, i never understood why guitars chords felt disonant to me until you explained theyre in equal temperment. I dont know why im more sensitive to it on guitars vs pianos. Maybe because its against me and i feel it? Who knows
Just look at the massive distance between the tastino and the 1st fret. It's like 1/4 of a half step. That's how fundamentally effed the instrument is to begin with
I was always thinking my guitar has a problem :-( happy to know about this!
Imagine how long it will take to learn how to play a fully chromatic microtonal guitar with microtones for every key
I always tune the b string flat to do this. If you're playing major then use the b string for your third, if you're playing minor then use the b string for your root.
This won't get you very far. The frets are tuned in equal temperament so if you'd like to use the frets on the B string, you'll find they will be out of tune.
@@brandonacker correct. If you're trying to play a song written by someone else, then it's not incredibly practical.
But if you're writing your own song with it, then you could choose to dance around the b string and avoid it, or you could use it when you want to go a little flat. It becomes another tool in your box to fuel your creativity
Microtones rule, so cool to see you mess around with it
microtones are retarded. This is just solving a temperament problem with a particular chord
they arent microtones tho, they're the same note in different temperaments.
Why are you putting Totinos in your fretboard, Brandon?
Great! *_Now we must reconstuct all intsruments for this extension._*
this man is legend 🎉
Worth noting that the intonation on a standard guitar has neither of those intervals(notes). Your G#/Ab is somewhere between those which is why it’s particularly harsh on the Ab.
Also, when doing backing vocals it’s a good idea to focus on the singer rather than accompaniment for pitch reference. If you sing the interval most people with a decent ear and some experience singing, at least in my experience, will gravitate toward proper intonation. Not sure if it’s just voices with each other or any single pitch reference, but I think the physical engagement and timbral similarity make it easier to hear the out of tune-ness of equal temperament intervals. In general just the understanding that intonation is flexible is probably under appreciated given the rock/blues tendency towards using neutral thirds shows up very commonly as a stylistic choice in popular music, at least until the era of ubiquitous pitch correction software.
Our 400 years old vamp learning all the guitar secrecy over his entire lifetime
Glad to see that the bassist from Gilmore Girls is still jammin
You always find a way to keep me hooked and wanting to experiment huh Brandon? :P
That's so cool though I had no idea that was something you could do!
Quick question, ( I'm not a string player, I play saxophone.) Why put a guitar in equal temperment instead of making every note perfectly in tune?
Because equal temperament allows you to play in all keys and temperaments limit you to specific keys. Watch my full video "why guitarists used to play more in tune "
@@brandonacker so why didn't microtonal frets become common? that way you could (Correct me if I'm wrong on this assumption) have every temperament availiable?
@@dantheman8503 The dominant type of frets until 1800 were tied on gut that were moveable and often put in temperaments. However only certain temperaments (mostly meantone) work on fretted plucked instruments so you'll always be limited to certain keys but can move frets around depending on what key you are in. That is exactly what I do when I play music pre-1800.
In the 19th cent. fixed metal frets became common and playing in all 24 keys became desirable so temperaments lost their appeal for practicality. It has been the standard in Western music ever since.
@@brandonacker Ok. I think I understand a bit more now! thank you for clearing up some of my confusion!
I was this years old when i learned that G# and Ab are different notes
a simple question for all these fans of additional frets: why not just use a fretless guitar, where you can immediately take any microchromaticisms?
Because then playing chords is extremely difficult. Fretless players play melodically. Fixed pitch instruments play harmonically
@@brandonacker Here is the question of hearing, which turns out to need to be developed :)
And how would it be more convenient for me to just draw dots or rulers as frets, as for example they do when studying non-fret instruments (for example, double bass)
I dont think so. No violinist can play a chord progression as in tune as a mediocre guitarist. They are different tools that do different things. If you are playing harmonically, playing a fretless would be a mistake. Melodocially, its an advantage
@@brandonacker I was talking about drawing dots that will not differ in any way from frets with the slightest practice, because you look at the neck and see them.
And violinists also play chords and intervals quite accurately.
For example, we want to play something like Jacob Collier, the transition from diatonic chords to microtonal chords, there will be a whole progression.
I understand but you don't play by looking when you are advanced. You play by feel. You feel the frets and the guide you to help play chords. Even with lines (I've done it) you won't ever play nearly as in tune with ease.
Music science always intrigues me
You should make a video with Tolgahan çoğulu
Because a guitar has fixed frets it means it uses equal temperament- in which every note is roughly equally wrong-it’s a compromise system. It’s why you can’t tune a guitar so you can play a perfect C chord and then an E chord. Impossible. This is a fantastic solution. Good for Cmajor and A minor pieces where the minor dominant 7th has the G#.
There's a story of a popular musician/guitarist, who almost never made live gigs. Allegedly his records were a nightmare for the editor since he wanted to tune his guitar again after a few chords again and again.
in microtonal terms the Ab could also be called the G half sharp
So satisfying
This man opens the door.😂😂❤❤❤❤❤
Dont let this man fool you. He is a musical demon. The shit he plays is insane.
I knew about semi tones but this is cool! Always loved how guitars work with the frets and lengths of strings with different thickness vibrating out. So when you fret the Low E string up like 5 frets its the same note as the A ringing open. Its all about the vibration. Two different lengths of string creating the same thing
An FYI: semitones are the intervals found when moving from one fret to the next, or when playing adjacent keys on a keyboard. Semitone and half-step are synonymous. The concept Brandon is talking about is called microtones, which are intervals smaller than a half-step/semitone.
I was going to write more about this but it is too complicated for the comments. If you are interested, check out "equal temperament", "just intonation", and "musical key".
you are the only person I know that has the patience to put GUT frets on a classical guitar and lemme tell ya thats something cus Ive studied vihuela and theorbo since I was 7 and no one out of the many lutenists and viola da gamba players Ive met has the patience to deal with their gut frets and they dont have alternatives. You do, you could have beautiful and rigid metal frets that dont decompose after two weeks of playing yet you have the balls to put the most annoying type of fret that I've tried on your guitar. AMAZING
Does it have advantages though?
@@RedHair651 not really, they just kinda succ, the only reason I would get an instrument with gut frets, which I have multiple of, would be historical accuracy
@@The_IRL_Bardit gives you tho the advantage to replace it more easily and move it to your preference
@@thodgounaris4223 wrong, once you tie them, you tie them for one position and you can move them down but they'll be loose and you might be able to move them up but then they won't go back to their place because they stretched
@@thodgounaris4223 and it would be better if you didn't have to replace them
Interesting! I never thought of doing this on a guitar even though I donit on my tepet all the time! Trumpeters extened there ring finger to push out the third valve slide when playing notes with a 1-3 or 1-2-3 fingering. 2-3 fingerings don't need it.
E major does sound nice here, but it sounds like the mini fret was tuned to the chord. First fret doesn't sound THAT bad in equal temperament.
Amazing. Always thought the fretts on the guitar are not in the right place.
I tried to listen but I kept getting distracted by your ethereal beauty
Wouldn't the resonate vibrations inside the piano clean that issue up as long as you stay inside the given temperment? Granted the guitar makes the difference shine a bit more, it reminds me of the slight bend my bass teacher told us to put in blues scales ⚖️ as they were also based in human voices which can hit sub frequency that instrument have a difficulty finding.
Some keyboards actually had split keys so you could choose which note to play. But no the difference in pitch is not covered up by resonance. It's actually amplified by that resonance.
I am a beginner in music theory, and my understanding was G#==Ab, same key on the piano, but you showed the difference between G# and Ab. I am so confused. BTW. Great channel, I am interested in electric guitar but you channel is so informative, so many excellent hints. Great work.
Thanks! Yes you need to watch the full video to understand. It's different if you play in a temperament.
FULL VIDEO: ruclips.net/video/tiKCORN-6m8/видео.html
He’s wrong G# and Ab are the same note. Just trying to obfuscate the fact that his guitars intonation at the first fret is too sharp
@@JavierPwns Sorry but you clearly haven't watched the video and simply don't understand what I'm teaching.
@@JavierPwnsstring players will play G# not the same as Ab exactly as is illustrated here. They do it because it sounds more resonant and in pitch and they can easily do so (no frets). Especially in a string quartet where others are playing other notes in the harmony.
See my comment. It explains why a sharp or flat are in music theory. Hopefully my attempt to describe this music theory fact will clear up anyone that is confused about this. Here's one for you all, its another really amazing facts about music theory that just is. The C Major 6th chord (CEGA) is also the Am7 chord (ACEG)....YEP, I KNOW HOW CONFUSING BUT ALSO SO COOL. Here's another for you all...in the key of C Major, the F note is the 4th in the key (CDEF....1234). Now, in the key of F, the C note is the 5th (FGABbC...12345). Wait, now I could blow your minds with the secret chord mathmatical shortcut, but it's something I need feedback from you all to explain it, but it's super unknown. Even piano players that have played for 30 years have never figured this amazing trick I personally discovered many years ago. I have yet to see any piano teachers in the world show this little secret I figured by accident one day.
So you use the G# to make the Emaj chord sound pure… but when would you ever use the Ab? What chords would benefit from that altered note?
In meantone, major thirds are low and minor thirds are high. In modern equal temperament, they are the same
So what chords would benefit from that Ab note? Would you use that note in an F minor barre chord to fix the minor third?
Every major chord would benefit from a lower major third and vice versa with minor chords. So A in F major would be low and Ab in fm would be high.
@@brandonacker got it. Thanks Brandon!
this explains everything
Bro I'm straight af but I gotta admit you look magnificent
He had to fix the intonation too. Dont be fooled lol
Very interesting..
Thanks for sharing
Brilliant!
Folks don’t understand me when I talk to either. It’s all good thanks for the video.
you can also do quartertones if i am not wrong
that's why I always struggled tuning guitars by ear, it always sounded off
A flat and g sharp are not different, they are 2 names for the same thing. We use them both in their relative context but when it comes to this, you simply have a g sharp and A flat split up at a higher and lower frequency of vibration. We don’t really have names for those other than microtones.
Thank you. I get what he's doing, but having people thinking that A# and Gb is not the same is not cool.
Yep this video is misleading
I'm worried my musician friends will cite this video as proof that Ab and G# are different notes and I won't be able to convince them otherwise
I mean it’s not technically wrong with just intonation (which I assume is what he’s using) while yeah it’s misleading I still understood what he was getting at. Because if you play what he’s calling an Ab in let’s say an Fm chord that note will sound consonant. But if you play what he’s calling a G# on that chord it will not sound in tune
not true they can be different as demonstrated.
Ach! No wonder! I'm always fiddling with the running of my guitar because of this!
Be like Tolgahan çoğulu guitar ❤
That exactly what I thought
Can you show the Ab in context as the 5th of Db?
Brb, gunna go build a neck with full microtones
You should play sinbad by domeniconi!
Very cool
Tastino microtonal pizza rolls
Microwaveable
19 yummy equal temperament
Is this a fretless with a mix of gut and taped metal frets? Goofy, I love it!
Why does the second note sound like my guitar every time😢
I was today years old when I learned they are not exactly the same. What
they are in 12TET
His vocabulary in the video is a little strange, basically any major 3rd should be a little flatter than equal temperament, but if say you were trying to play a C# chord with a G# as the 5th, it wouldn’t need to be as flat, so it’s not like THAT IS G#, but rather in the instance of an E major chord, the G# should be a little flat
Yeah he’s (probably not intentionally) a little misleading with how he says that. In some chords they are the same just not this one.
They are the same; he's just saying random shit that sounds smart to fill up a minute of content.
@@senorpapasfritasconqueso They're slightly different depending on context afaik
I microwave tostinos when I'm too hungry to cook 😅
This is super cool but for it to make sense to actually use you’d have to have a lot more of them on different notes. Otherwise your E chord is tuned justly and others are not.
Watch the full video to understand. The other frets are already in place. ruclips.net/video/tiKCORN-6m8/видео.html
So cool. I believe the guitar is much more capable than we currently know.
Little things like this make me so motivated to continue learning it.
this chord is now the intro of cradled in love - potf 🔥
Tastino is Italian for little fret, literally
Advanced E-pianos to the rescue for all pre-equal-tempered compositions. ( But how many frets will possibly be needed for future guitars ?
Watch my full video to learn how the temperament works practically with frets! ruclips.net/video/tiKCORN-6m8/видео.html
Not only cool, but for us Gibson players it's essential!!