My video on the issue of the BBC's support of Transphobia: ruclips.net/video/aN4uc0HZrWE/видео.html My video on the BBC's response to complaints of its reporting: ruclips.net/video/skh81N5lcYY/видео.html My short on why I'll continue to put up the note at the front of these: ruclips.net/user/shortsHpwwzjzFXiE Shaun's 1st video, which includes some additional confirmed information: ruclips.net/video/b4buJMMiwcg/видео.html Shaun’s 2nd video, which follows how the BBC is trying to dodge accountability for all of this: ruclips.net/video/qfjTG6SVjmQ/видео.html Shaun’s 3rd video, following him escalating his complaints: ruclips.net/video/fRn1UZ4fhdE/видео.html Shaun's 4th video, covering the BBC's response: ruclips.net/video/3F7GW7Ro4OQ/видео.html Laura Kate Dale's protest speech outside the BBC offices: ruclips.net/video/hBjGnWkwAjI/видео.html
I think the alternative to already shooting season 2 is far worse: gap years. After each gap year the viewership for Doctor Who declined tremendously. RTD wants to avoid that at any cost. Don't forget, Doctor Who will still be rooted in linear TV.
Yeah, which is not dissimilar to how it used to be run. If i recall correctly, they already announced David Tennent as the 10th doctor before a single episode of 2005 Who had aired, cuz they had to, cuz it was a yearly thing. Worries about the Whoniverse are absolutely valid, but I don't think that Gatwa's 2nd season being shot already should necessarily have to be a part of that concern specifically. That's just Doctor Who doing its own thing, same way that it did the first time under RTD, to be able to deliver a season a year.
@@Smouv I just did some Googling on the timeline for David Tennant's original casting because I distinctly remember them announcing Christopher Eccleston's departure a few days after "Rose" aired and not immediately confirming the who would be replacing him. Turns out this is the timeline: 26 March 2005 - "Rose" aired 30 March 2005 - Christopher Eccleston's departure announced 16 April 2005 - David Tennant's casting announced, the same day "Aliens of London" aired 18 June 2005 - The 10th Doctor first appeared in "The Parting of the Ways"
@@Smouvnot at all, it was a secret that leaked after there had been friction beetween Eccleston and unnamed BBC procuders during production of season 1. He was originally meant to play the doctor for many seasons.
Continuing on with a series following on from the TV movie in 1996 would have been a mistake. Not only would we have been firmly saddled with that American tonal slant and the half-human thing (which thankfully was hard retconned by Journey's End, despite what Nathaniel claims in this video), but we also never would have gotten the fantastic revival series in 2005, since the show wouldn't have needed reviving. It's for the best that an 8th Doctor series (if the rumours are true) is coming now and not then.
I feel like he's making another season really soon because he doesn't want to lose the interest he got for these specials. A lot of people think the waning interest in the show has been due to the gap years. If he just breaks after Ncuti's first series, he might lose all that momentum for no reason at all.
While the specials will get people interested again it all depends on the first series being good to keep people coming back and its quite possibly dangerous to do a second series so quickly if the first series doesnt deliver. I think if this series is good enough to hold it momentum then a second series coming so close is not quite necessary and could be equally damaging not to let it sink in
@@Venemofthe888 I don't agree. Its not like we're gonna get two series back to back in one year. Its gonna be the Tennant specials, Ncuti's series in Spring 2024 (I think I heard) then we gotta wait until Christmas 2024 for Ncuti's second series to begin. That's a good space between. It just seems like a lot now because a lot is gonna be coming in these next few months.
Its basically what Star Trek is doing, all the modern Trek shows got a 2 season order so that they can keep to a yearly schedule, and while it ended poorly for the first show with Star Trek Discovery being polarizing and having to course correct in season 3, it also paid off with shows like Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks keeping their momentum. Right now, Lower Decks season 5 production is already progressing despite season 4 finishing only late last month and they're usually making the new season while the old one is airing, so the show can have a very consistent schedule that people are happy with. I trust that RTD will be more in the latter camp than the former, though when the showrunning is taken over by someone else I can see this method being risky
I mean look at what happened with Chibnall's run. A year long 'break' between Series 11 and Series 12, followed by a period where we got only a single episode between the 1st March 2020 and the 31st of October 2021. What little momentum Whittaker had (which considering the finale of Series 11 was Battle of Ranskoor and the finale of Series 12 was Timeless Children, two of the worst episodes in her whole run, meant that she had very little momentum) was completely lost by the breaks.
Another factor might be that Ncuti wants to film two seasons back-to-back so that he can then move onto other projects. Haven't heard this mentioned anywhere but thought I'd throw it into the mix
I'd say Sarah Jane Adventures was veerrrryyy good, even rewatching it last year as an adult it still stood strong, had some good links to the main show, and it was the only show which the Trickster appeared in who (I think) is my fav Who villain
AGREED. I think it gets underrated because it was a 'children's show', but I personally thought it was the strongest of the spin-offs and generally quite well written (it also helped that the vibe reminded me a lot of Classic Who a lot of the times and, being a MASSIVE Classic Who fan, that was right up my alley). P.S. Also, I was in my mid-30s back when it aired. And while it has some children's-TV elements, writing it off just because you're not in that demographic is a mistake, IMO.
@@NicoleM_radiantbabyit was the most consistent. Torchwood kept stumbling but found some really good stuff along the way whilst Class never even left the finish line. SJA remained consistently good throughout
i watched it as a kid, and rewatched it again as a uni student. i don't think the approach is hugely different to doctor who in the sense that it's aimed at a family demographic. i think both children and adults can enjoy it. i didn't feel like i was watching something very childish.
The fact that they’re filming everything so far in advance is actually really reassuring to me - I think because in the Writers Tale you can really feel the pressure of the production schedule on the process & I think the showrunners probably learned a lot from that- having that breathing space before the public has seen anything to really spend the time getting it right, having the luxury of reshoots/pickups, time in the edit. I wonder if they are really spending the time getting the main series right now, so that they then can shift their focus to spin offs while the show is airing. Then when the spin offs air they can shift back to the main series. That way the teams aren’t constantly in split focus. That is my hope anyway!
I'm of two minds myself. If they pull it off much like how the first R.T.D. era went with spin-offs, then it won't be a problem. Doctor Who's main story was largely understandable even without what was going on with the two Earth bound teams of alien hunters. "The Stolen Earth" and "Journey's End" made perfect sense as you knew that Jack and Sarah Jane were still investigating alien phenomena on Earth. It makes you want to see those adventures like a backdoor pilot of sorts. But... this isn't the mid to late 2000s anymore. We live in the age of everyone wanting their own MCU, chomping at the bit for movies that can come off as more like pilots to a TV series than anything. You gotta see XYZ to understand this movie character's deal. Few movies can be as self-contained due to the allure of hyper-interconnectivity in today's age of the world wide web.
I think that the problem today isn't the spin-offs themselves, it is having to have watched a whole list of movies/tv shows/whatever to understand the next thing that comes out. As long as they keep things like in RTD1 (like you said, when Sarah Jane and Jack showed up we knew who they were and what they had been doing in the meantime because those thing were explained in the main show) it should be fine.
@@TheGabygael It's a shame SJA never got a full US airing as far as I could fine. It's not like the BBC couldn't have aired it since it's only slightly toned down from Doctor Who. Lord knows that (possible) child death wasn't off the table for it.
@@NankitaBR I feel like the consquences of having a popular thing that has an expansive universe is that spin-off of any medium is inevitable. The MCU has some excuse of being based on the vast history of comic books from Marvel but that can only go so far.
Regarding the Flux references in Wild Blue Yonder, I wouldn't be surprised if RTD has a line referencing how Donna avoided the Sontarans all over Earth (or other examples of wide spread alien invasions in the Moffat and Chibnall eras).
I honestly theorised for a while that she would’ve died during The Monks arc in Capaldi’s final season. The Doctor was literally on TV daily and information about Daleks and Cybermen would have been beamed directly into her head, that would have killed her
As a UK fan, I feel like the 'Whoniverse' concept is more focused on "Look, all things Doctor Who is now in one place on the BBC- as it should be". With spin-offs, my understanding is everything is pure speculation right now. The UK media are in a frenzy saying theres going to be a UNIT spin-off, 8th Doctor spin-off Torchwoods return... Yet there has been no leaked filming to my knowledge, which suggests they are focusing on Ncutis first 2 seasons and seeing how it is received before working on his 3rd and starting on spin-offs. The pace of filming is RTDs desire to make Doctor Who a yearly show, although I agree its a gamble depending on how 'successful/unsuccessful' it is on Disney+.
I'm getting a BIG "it's 2005 again babyyyy" vibes from all of this. Murray Gold, spin-offs, behind-the-scenes show and most importantly, calling it season 1. It all feels like 2005 again with more money. I liked 2005, I like the first RTD era, but I also want Doctor Who to evolve. I don't want 2005 all over again.
The thing I'll say is I've noticed anytime you're invested in a project you are never optimistic. It just seems joyless in a weird way. But I do share your sentiment. Mostly because I've never seen someone return to a property and not fail at recapturing the magic
For me, this is my natural state. If a thing is good and I've liked it, I'm going to be nervous about losing that. I can't help it. This is my brain. I like to think I can still find the joy in a thing once I have it, I'm just not the type to commit to joy before I have it.
I personally feel that comparing a British TV show to Hollywood blockbuster franchises is kinda jumping the gun. Yes, doctor who is popular, but it's not marvel or DC or even Lego. It seems that disney has been kinda hands off creatively, so all your concerns seem directed at RTD, who has successfully made 4 series of doctor who previously. I have faith in him and in his vision because, for me, he's established trust. He's not a big studio. He's just a dude.
I think Gatwa's said he's doing theatre work after S2 wraps, which might be why they're filming S2 as early as they are (Though I do know that with Tennant's theatre work during the filming of the specials in 2009 he took the season of specials as an opportunity to do it rather than that being the reason for doing the season of specials back in 2009). Not sure where you're getting anything beyond rumour about a UNIT spinoff, though - There's a couple of highly speculative Radio Times articles that I can find based on a former Torchwood writer saying it would be nice to see that come back and the fact Kate Stewart is in an episode in the next season. Which... It might happen. It's a fairly obvious choice for a spinoff. But I'm not seeing anything that feels like it's more than someone trying to get an easy 500-1000 word article about an IP during a hype cycle for it when SEO for it is high. We know spinoffs are planned (though... I'm less clear on if stuff like Tales from the TARDIS - Even documentary stuff since Talking Doctor Who (which was David Tennant presenting archive interview footage and watching behind the scenes footage of the Logopolis regeneration scene) - might be considered spinoffs considering they had the Whoniverse brand ident at the front of them.
I'm not nervous at all. The whoniverse isn't just what's to come. It's the combination of what's already there with things coming up. I'm currently rewatching Torchwood and I'm just really enjoying it. It doesn't have to have an IMDB score of 8.5 it's a fun low budget scifi show. I doubt having the first series air before filming the second series would make any difference in the writing or in the plans anyway. I have faith in Russell's work. Mcgann wouldn't be competing with Ncuti it would probably be a miniseries filler. And it's the BBC tales of the TARDIS shows how fun the attention to the whoniverse can be.
I would be really interested in your thoughts on RTD’s recent comments about Davros, and how they’re going to retcon him being disabled. It’s made me a little nervous. He’s also replied to a comment criticizing that decision on his IG with “tough”. On top of his old comments about how David Tennant appearing in Jodie Whittaker’s costume would have been offensive; I’m worried about his views becoming performative social justice. I’m very left leaning, and fully support writing characters in wheelchairs, or showing a person’s becoming disabled. Wilfred is in a wheelchair now, and I believe a new younger character in a wheelchair is being introduced as well, which is exciting for representation, but it feels wrong to remove a character’s disability because that just erases one more disabled character.
I had the same reservations and also commented about it here, but others have pointed out that the disabled have been routinely villainised in media for centuries. Darth Vader, Shakespeare's King Richard III, countless James Bond villains, even Dr Claw. Just about every famous disabled character in media is a villain. The only one I can think of who isn't (besides characters who have means to make their disabilities completely impactless like Luke Skywalker) is Chip from the original Transformers cartoon, and hardly anyone has heard of him. With this in mind I can understand why RTD would be unhappy about the notion of adding to that further. Personally I would simply retire the character rather than retcon him, he's pretty played out after all this time anyway, but I'm not the showrunner. Regarding his avoidance of having David Tennant wearing Jodie Whittaker's clothes, I agree it's kinda silly, but there is the fact that the British tabloids are absolutely relentless and no issue is to small or silly for them to kick up a huge media storm about it.
@@SarcyBoi41 Coming from a place of love, but someone who’s not a wheelchair user, I feel it’s just more important for those people to have the biggest say in whether or not Davros is problematic. Personally, I’ve seen nothing but disabled people come forward criticizing the retcon. While yes, Davros is indeed a villain, none of his actions are because he’s disabled, in fact, he’s on the same level as any other Doctor Who villain in spite of his disabilities. Not saying fans can personally connect to Davros, but a lot of fans love engaging with entertainment through seeing themselves on screen. I feel the issue more so if the erasure of a disabled character on television regardless. Imagine if the new Davros can walk, and a disabled fan chooses to cosplay the old version. Suddenly their cosplay is out of date, and they’d see a non disabled person cosplaying their character more accurately. It alienates in my opinion. RTD should be giving us more hero figures in wheel chairs if he cared about representation. Which he is in the 60th specials. Both showing a character that could previously walk needing a wheelchair, and that new character seen in BTS who’s very young in a wheelchair. RTD is doing the right thing, but erasing this character is just not the solution in my opinion. There’s room for disabled villains in our programming. If there’s a history of disabled people being portrayed as villains, RTD should minimize that aspect of his character. I’d rather see Davros improved as a disabled character than “fixed” or retconned as “normal”. Personally I’ve been wanting to see an exoskeleton/mecha suit Davros in DW but now I feel this situation will cause Davros to always be seen through a different lense.
@@SarcyBoi41 I just also want to add that while the most famous depictions of disabled people in media tend to be evil villains, I don’t want to deny that fact, but personally the villains tend to be the more interesting character, and that doesn’t seem like a pressing issue with everything going on in the world. We wouldn’t want to erase these from our history. Arguably these characters being disabled makes them far more interesting characters. If a character, like Darth Vader, is not actively being problematic in depicting their disability, then why is it a problem? It feels the conversation should be directed towards writing more disabled hero protagonists. Personally I can also name Professor X, who’s one of my favorites.
To be honest, I was a bit unclear on what they were doing with Davros. I thought it was just for the special? Plus, do they even need to bring back Davros? Julian Bleach is great, but like, who cares anymore?
Idea: how about calling Series 1 to 13 "Millennium Who", given it began with the start of the new Millennium? Has a nice ring to it and pretty easy to understand in relation to the Current Nu Who and Classic Who.
@@adamdavis1648 While true, the revival series began development between 1998 to 2002. Further, while it might not be *strictly* the most accurate name for the Revival for Doctor Who, it's easy to remember and catchy.
I don't know if you've seen it, but they just released a comical Doctor Who short for Children in Need featuring Davros without his life-support chair (still played by Julien Bleach). I and everyone else assumed this was simply because it was set before whatever incident put him in that chair. But in the behind-the-scenes special ("Doctor Who Unleashed"), RTD says that this change was made because he felt it was ableist to portray a wheelchair-user as a villain. I can understand why he would do that for a Children in Need special as disabled children are a focus of the charity's work, but his words heavily implied that this is a permanent retcon of Davros' design moving forward. The Doctor even said during the special that "the canon is unraveling", a word choice that may imply dramatic retcons to Doctor Who lore (I could be overanalysing there, but I think most of us expect the Timeless Child to be retconned at some point at the least). I'd like to hear your thoughts on this if possible since you seem more in tune on these things than most (though obviously you aren't a wheelchair user so only if you're still comfortable discussing it). To me it just kinda feels like patronizing infantilisation of wheelchair-users, he framed it in a way that implies ever seeing a wheelchair-using villain would be traumatic for them. I don't want to make any assumptions but it really feels like the kind of "inclusive" decision that was made without any present members of the group in question. Again, no pressure if this is something you aren't comfortable talking about or simply don't think is worth addressing EDIT: Here's the link to the behind-the-scenes clip in question ruclips.net/video/zb-PHsKGjjQ/видео.htmlsi=4cgDH6MURnOIp4l3 I should clarify that I myself am not a wheelchair-user, but I am autistic, and if RTD had been speaking that way about autistic people as if we're helplessly fragile I would feel patronised, insulted and infantilised. But being infantilised is nothing new for us autistic folks sadly.
I won't have much of an issue with this provided that when he is reintroduced in the show in a post "The Witch's Familiar" story, it's given an in-universe explanation. But I'm really worried that RTD is just going to fully retcon it with zero explanation, which could set a rather troubling precedent for the future of this franchise.
What’s the betting that if Banakaffallata ever makes another appearance (I know he died, but so did Clara, Bill, The Master, and indeed Davros), they’ll retcon the fact that he’s a cyborg so that people with pacemakers aren’t being lumped in with a “talking conker”?
I didn’t come across to me as patronising or infantilising. He just said he was uncomfortable with having a physically disabled villain and that Dr who is about moving with the times and what’s acceptable. There’s a long history of disabled people being villains (Darth Vader, Shakespeare’s Richard III & half of bond villains etc) as disability has always been seen as scary, othered and their anger at an ableism society is a reason for them becoming villains. Also with Darvos there’s the issue of the Daleks being based on the Nazis when disabled people were the first people to be murdered by the regime. The fact that Julian said in 2008 that Darvos is a cross between Hitler and Stephen Hawking is awful. Personally, I’m glad they changed it and just so you know wheelchair user is the preferred term not wheelchair bound.
I agree with everything RTD says her first he says how it's not just davros, theres a large amount of media representing people with disibilites as evil and he doesn't want to add to that negative trope. Idk how you can weirdly from nowhere twist that argument into infantalization or that he thinks disabled people would be traumatized. It's like how in trans representation in media has for many years been villains, serial killers or victims so most people avoid those tropes in the modern day. Secondly, he says how sure theres nothing wrong with the past iterations due to it being in the past but he wants doctor who to move with the current state of progress. So yeah it's a retcon, of the future interpretations of davros. Finally, Exactly don't make an assumption, you don't know who was in the room so you cant just assume stuff about there being no members present. Just because you don't like the decision. RTD has been pretty good in the past with getting proper representation with actors and such.
I think an Eighth Doctor spinoff could work as an animated series. An animated show would have a more limited demographic so that it wouldn't compete with the main show. It would also allow them to explore any period in the Eighth Doctor's life and not _just_ the later period of his life where he's old and miserable.
Ty for the continuing intro Vera, it’s important and matters at the very least to your viewers like me. Much appreciated, I’ll never be annoyed by it, it’s the right thing to do. So so happy the strikes are over & we get to see all your thoughts and your Specials reviews as soon as you can make them. Yay for that! (When we in the US will actually get to see the eps is so weirdly a mystery… That there alone is making me nervous ;) ) Yes, goodness, terrified as a fan (of course what’s new.) Also obvs very hopeful & excited. Totally hear you about the corporitazion problem… lordy. That said, you’ve never pulled your punches. So while I hope for my fave-type glowing & deep reviews, like Vincent, I fully expect thoughtful mixed reviews (the other 99%.) And that will obvs (almost) never mean the show itself is all bad. Love all the discussion & thoughts, esp in yr comments. These folks are generally super thoughtful & just cool. Love the space you have here. So, i expect a mix, and I think it’ll be ok. Best wishes and ❤️ to the show, and to us all.
I do think this is fairly similar, if somewhat sped up version, of what Russell and the rest of the production staff were doing back in the 2000s. Tennant's first series was being filmed as Eccleston's went out and spinoffs were being planned as a part of the revival in the early planning stages of 2003/4 (although here planning seems to be off the backburner more this time around). I think in terms of filming the BBC and the production team want a consistent schedule for the show to maintain and hold interest which the inconsistency of the Moffat releases lost in that era where sometimes you'd go a year or more without a new series. Also, as mentioned in other comments, I do think that if they want to hold onto Ncuti, at least for these two series, then they'll need to film consistently and early given I assume he wants to take on more Hollywood and big parts. I don't really see this as an issue, it feels fairly in-line with a lot of shows do and I'm happy that seemingly Who will become a yearly thing again. As for actual spinoffs? Not all that interested in them generally. I like Torchwood, or at least series 2 and 3 (and aspects of 4), thought Class was fine, and love SJA but so long as they keep the core show up to standard I'll be happy.
RTD has (successful) form with this sort of showrunning... More than just Doctor Who, Torchwood and Sarah Jane Adventures, he *constantly* had Who on the air in a way his fellow NuWho showrunners frequently failed spectacularly to do. Not only did he somehow manage to stick to that apparently 'impossible' 13 episodes a year schedule. He also had Doctor Who Confidential, Doctor Who Unleashed, those weird mini-episodes online, etc - all of which only really fell of a cliff when he stepped down as showrunner. He also managed to get Cucumber, Banana, and Tofu on the air more or less simultaneously? Was it a terrifyingly inhuman amount of work to demand of one person? Yes... And that's the bit that makes me nervous, asking him to do it all again nearly 20 years later but, as a creator? Given he was the man that brought Who back from its long exile in the first place? Nah. The Beeb still aren't *quite* at the purely for profit stage of corporate fuckery as their rival TV companies. Not yet anyway... If they've pre-filmed all of this I take it as a sign they're prepared to air it.
The big difference I feel like, from all those failed attempts at big interconnected universes, is that they were all starting from scratch. Doctor Who is already a big expansive interconnected multimedia universe The Snyderverse had 1 poorly received Superman movie behind it when they started pushing forward, "Whoniverse" has 60 years of beloved content behind it
Strange new worlds, Lower Decks, Picard, and Discovery aren't splitting the Trek community. Some fans watch all, some watch just the ones they like. I have no worries about an 8th doctor mini series.
Literally agree with everything you’ve said 😅 Idk I’m mixed on the new era. I’m cautiously optimistic. Looking forward to hearing what you think of the specials soon :)
I’ve been nervous since RTD’s return was first announced, then my fears kept building with Tennant’s return, and now with Murray Gold’s return, the spin-offs and “Whoniverse” thing - I might as well stick with pre-2024 Who and headcanon the show ending with 13 mid regenerating. I 100% agree with you about Torchwood, I never got the hype for it but as for SJA, it was part of my childhood so I’m biased. Class was alright, but could’ve been better and should’ve been given a chance but the BBC (and majority of fandom) clearly don’t like anything that isn’t written or produced by Russell T Davies. Said showrunner has recently got backlash and I’m glad he has. As a disabled person and wheelchair user myself, his “comments” about Davros were beyond ridiculous. But that’s a different topic for another time. Back to the topic at hand - the “Whoniverse”, I‘ve never seen the interest in spin-offs or a wider fictional universe. While some may be fun, they’re forgettable and don’t add anything, unless an episode plot stems from that or wields into something else. I hope RTD2 turns out to be good, but it’s not looking like it will be with everything that’s gone on and will be happening. When it comes crashing down and burning, I’ll be gleefully telling certain fans: “I told you so, but you didn’t listen”. Russell and the production team’s priorities should be the main show first, spin-offs second and universe third. Take it slow, otherwise viewers will be alienated and they’ll have the same problems as they do now with the MCU and the like.
I hope you're wrong too. I was so excited about Jodie's Doctor & was terribly let down by everything, not Jodie herself but pretty much everything else. So, I am already more reserved than I would have been for what's coming up. But...I think a little trepidation that ultimately gets blown out of the water is better than super hype that ends up in disappointment.
I agree with you about the eighth Doctor, but I would love to see a large movie/special with him. Or let the new Doctor regenerate into him for a couple of episodes. They already showed it with the Fourth and Tenth.
I'm very mixed on the whole season/series renumbering thing. Disney have carte blanche to do so for their side of distribution and marketing since they're not getting series 1-13, but I feel like the BBC doing it for the UK folk would be more alienating; they didn't reset in 2010 for new audiences when Moffat took over (though could've done), nor in 2018 with Chibnall, so why now? It's only been a couple years since the last series, only a lengthy hiatus would really justify it. Granted, it is all just semantics and there are more important things going on in the world, but this sort of thing sends my brain into overdrive. As for already shooting Ncuti's second series (good luck saying that drunk) long before his first is out, I suppose that's because they want to get enough footage in the can while he's still available before he commits to any Hollywood roles or turns his attention to treading the boards so as to avoid a Sherlock-type situation where you wouldn't able to do much while your lead(s) is off doing one of those two things, but the apprehension about a possible adverse reception to his first series is totally understandable.
I think a Paul Mgann mini series isn’t a bad idea if it’s just a limited series, one and done sorta thing. That way it won’t compete with the main show but just be a nice spin off.
As far as Sarah Jane Adventures goes, I think older fans watched it due to nostalgia. Sarah Jane is at the top of best companion lists for a reason. Plus I literally cried when Liz Sladen died, such a tragedy.
I think I largely agree with the points you made, but I do think an 8th Doctor mini series could actually work. If it was done as a mini series and done in between seasons of the main series it wouldn't detract from the main series. They would have to market it properly though, market it specifically as a mini series and not a replacement for the main series and throw in a lot of stuff like "Take a look back at a previously unseen part of the Doctors past" or something like that. But yeah properly marketed and done as a mini series in between the main seasons, an eighth doctor series could totally work without splitting the fanbase (although to be fair the fanbase is almost always split due to how many doctors we've had thus far haha)
I do not give two shits about Dr. Who but I love Vera and her takes on this. Yes, wait until the first thing works OR wait until you can see what DID NOT work, so you can FIX IT in the next thing. Hope you have an excellent Thanksgiving weekend!
I’m with you on this. It very much DOES all seem like a big corporate push. In an absolutely worse case scenario, if series 1 of the new show turns out to be a load of garbage, there will be no chance to put it right until series 2. By that time a lot of viewers will have walked away. That being said, at least it means that the show won’t get cancelled before we get a second series. The ‘Whoniverse’ branding and logo animation has more than a passing resemblance to the Disney Marvel one. And I suspect that a lot of this has to do with requirements laid out in the agreement made with Disney. The more money Dr Who has thrown at it, the more ‘branded’ and homogenised it all seems. It’s as if it’s becoming more and more like every other franchise out there, and I fear that the show will lose a lot of what made it unique. I’m concerned about how the show will be treated now that it’s a joint project between BBC, Bad Wolf/Sony and Disney. It’s like those movies where you have to sit through a list of different company logos before you get to the film! And I wouldn’t trust Disney to look after a hard-boiled egg, let alone this show that I’ve loved for over 40 years. It all now comes down to how much I trust RTD, and how much power he actually has to make the show he wants without corporate interference. I trust RTD. I think it’s in safe hands. But with so many fingers in the pie, I hope RTD isn’t going to hamstrung by interference from on-high. From the point of the U.K. audience at least, RTD’s already pulled a few aces out of his sleeve. He fought to get Classic Who available on iPlayer. Not only that, but he also managed to get a new documentary together, hosted by David Tenant. It was a bit superficial, but fun. He’s managed to get the brilliant Whose Doctor Who documentary from 1977 onto iPlayer as well. And, thanks to him pushing for as much Who content as possible, we’ve also got the brilliant documentary about the shamefully overlooked Delia Derbyshire on there as well. We also got Tales Of The TARDIS. This was essentially a series of classic Who stories edited together as one episode, bookended with newly filmed scenes with past Doctors and companions reminiscing in a ‘memory TARDIS’ which were touching for old fans and a good way to introduce old stories to new fans. And then he pulled together an amusing scene for Children In Need with 14 and Davros which was a bit silly, but good fun to watch. So he’s already earned some points as far as I’m concerned. So I’m hopeful that all will go well. But yes, I do share your concerns.
Everything that has happened since Ncuti Gatwa was cast has indicated to me that RTD is just making 2005 Doctor Who again. And he's killing my excitement. I was so looking forward to Ncuti, I believed in Russell and thought his original work was a strong indication that he was a new writer. But he seems so obsessed with his own work on the show that he's not going to push Who in the new direction it desperately needs, and just fall back on his old style. Which I'm sure some people will appreciate, but I'm just not that interested.
Sorry, but I must disagree on the idea of an eighth Doctor series. I feel the same way about this idea that I do about a Jo Martin limited series, which is that yes, the idea of a fractured fandom is something to consider, but not as much as the opportunity to give these people a crack at something they legitimately deserved. I think 10 years from now, fans will care far more about the 8th Doctor or Fugitive Doctor series existing far more than they will care about whether the fandom was fractured at the time. I think the job of the showrunner is to make the show, and by extension the property, as good as it can be, and to market it. Everything else is up to the fandom IMO.
Much as I don't like this either, it very clearly isn't a corporate push: it's a response to how insanely overworked Russell's team was the first time round. This is why I'm okay with 1 series every 18 months like Chris did, as opposed to every 12 months: the staff aren't overworked, but this solution doesn't break communication between storyteller and listener.
Im both excited and utterly terrified for this new era. It feels like it could either be the beginning of something amazing or the second wilderness era. Which tbh both i would be happy with? Like it would be disappointing but maybe five-ten years or so to get new people and new ideas will help doctor who
Although i am a fan of a lot of the creations from the wilderness era- particularly eighth doctor audios+the novels because of the experimentation and wacky-ness so maybe im biased haha
Hey, I have been wanting to hear your thoughts on the children in need special and your thoughts on what Russell said in the clips of Doctor Who Unleashed for this special. It's got many people up in arms and nervous as well. Furthermore, I agree with most of your thoughts on why you are nervous. I guess the only thing we can do is wait and hope. And yes, we all want this stuff to do well and amaze us. But you are also right in terms of what history shows. Lets just hope things go well for Doctor Who again.
i completely agree with and share both your trepidation and hope here. i do have a caveat with certain types of projects: i for instance think Wheel of Time is a good example of something i would like to see a studio go deeper in without waiting for audience response, but that is because 1) it's an adaptation of a pre-existing complete, contained plot that has a planned ending and 2) the team as a plan for it that takes the entire world into account, making it less subject to going in directions just testing for viability. something like a whoniverse (and an mcu) is very different, in that there is not a specific end or overarching plot arc governing the series, and it could be theoretically indefinite
My feeling is that spin-off series would be here for us to watch in-between DW seasons/specials. Not competing, but giving us something to fill our needs while we wait. And they could be really interesting, there’s so much to do with this license. I really felt those long pauses we had recently, so I would not complain if they made more content! And also as a 3D animator, the perspective of getting a job working on a DW animated series is just phenomenal. Crossed fingers 🤞
I think the difference between the whoniverse and other attempted expansive universes is that the amount of money riding on this is a lot less. I mean yes they are spending more than DW normally does but its still a fairly subdued amount in comparison to the mcu or dceu or something. Also if the previous RTD spinoffs are anything to go by then the whoniverse will have the advantage that they will be deliberately designed to hit different demographics. So you have the dr who main show, you have a unit show thats perhaps more grounded and perhaps id assume a little more serious and youd have a kids show spinoff in the vein of sja. Which seems to offer more possiblities than something like csi where the shows are the same just in a different location.
The 8th Doctor is my favorite incarnation, and I'm beyond thrilled they are considering a series for him. I don't think it would necessarily split the fandom, as long as both are good and it's clear that an equal amount of thought, time and money went into both.
I think they needed enough new material to keep coming as a big problem in the last 5 years has been lack of material to look forward to so fans dropped off and forgot to come back when new series weren't promoted enough. Im not worried. I think rtd can ensure the main show is good enough, and if spinoffs arent amazing it wont hurt doctor who too much!
re music: i was not the biggest fan of "Al'Naito" when first released, but now that I've heard it in context of Wheel of Time, it's one of my favorite things ever. i actually think it is typical of tv show score to fall flat on its own, even when really good, bc we are trained to listen for pop-single or power-ballad progression in a song. but these aren't songs -- they're motifs, meant to be flexible over and over again but not to have a self-contained arc
I think shooting the second season is more out of necessity than desire, Ncuti has stated a desire to go back to theatre so it's probably allowing him to do that. I think everything to do with spinoff is still in rumour phase as of now, I think Russell's latest comments were 'There are spinoffs in the works, but not any of the one's you've seen reported online' I guess all we can do is wait and hope. For me, anything is better than the one series whenever they can be arsed we've had for the last few years. It's something different from the last failed approach, and if it's a different kind of failed approach on Who then... a change is as good as a rest, I suppose. Especially since the whole 'time to listen to what the fans think' thing doesn't really seem to have been happening anyway. I dunno. I have my reservations too, but I can't help but be excited for some life to be injected into what is probably Britain's most ailing franchise.
I think all that’s really worried me was just Davies, Tennant, and even Murray Gold coming back. I’m just worried it’s going to try too hard to recapture the magic of the 2005-10 run. There’s also the concept of all these spin offs and whatnot and I’m scared of the brand becoming too oversaturated all of a sudden. Disney are going to want to capitalise on it and I’m worried of it becoming like Star Wars or the MCU. If they do go the spin off route, I hope they remain unimportant to the main show.
As an Australian I cannot watch DW any easier: Classic is not on Britbox for Australians, Modern is much not on ABC IVIEW, and only from the 60th Specials are on Disney+!!!
as far as I know, specific spin-offs haven't been announced yet, so as far as we know they could just be filming the seasons of the main show and then announcing the first spin-off after series 1 is released.
The more stuff that seems to be pushed out with Doctor Who to come out really close together does worry me, too. But the Children In Need Special was FANTASTIC!
17:35 This aged perfectly in 3 weeks. I could not stop thinking about this during last nights episode. I am NOT happy with the last special and I am LIVID with the BS RTD continued to spew in Doctor Who unleashed. It made my nightmares about the future of Doctor Who real and front center.
My guess for the Ncuti Gatwa season 2 thing is that they are really nervous about losing him. With him getting Hollywood roles now such as being in the Barbie movie, the amount of time they will have him is possibly limited and they may not want a situation like David Tennant where they had to have huge breaks between seasons or the year of specials to accommodate his theatre runs or like with Sherlock where there were multiple years between seasons because Benedict Cumberbatch was off being a Hollywood star or Martin Freeman was too busy being Bilbo Baggins to film a BBC drama. As to the 8th Doctor spinoff, I think it's a marvellous idea - particularly when Doctor Who is getting pushed by Disney in the USA and Doctor Who series are so short compared to American TV. Having a Doctor Who section in the Disney+ Player where there's only 8 episodes of the main show - which is the episode count for Season 1 - and then a year between would be like if the Marvel section had a year between every TV show release. Now, while there are too many Marvel releases, I think we could probably agree that just 8 forty five minute episodes of a TV show a year would be too far the other way. A modern Doctor Who release in January then a 8th Doctor release in August then Season 2 of the main show in January again? Sounds like a lovely pace of TARDIS based TV. Plus it's likely that the 8th Doctor show will be more like Wandavision than Loki - a single season limited series with a plot about, maybe, the start of the Time War to get new people that start with Ncuti caught up on one of the key lore events of the old modern era.
Oh - something you DID miss on your roundup. There's a 2023 Christmas Special , The Church on Ruby Road, which will be Ncuti Gatwa's first full story as Doctor 15. That was something I REALLY wasn't expecting given that the 60th specials are already running into December.
Oh, and also there was a Children In Need mini episode with David Tennant yesterday that's available on RUclips and the very first episode of Doctor Who Unleashed was released on iPlayer to coincide. There's some really nice stuff with RTD talking about a redesign of a classic character because he thinks the original design demonised disabled people in a way that doesn't fly in 2023....y'know, for all those people that thought Doctor Who would stop being WOKE now that Chibnail was gone. :D
@@literaltruth I agree with his comments on the portrayal of disability in fiction. But changing the character is not a solution, it's performative. The more reasonable thing to do is to just not write about the character anymore. It's not like RTD can do anything new with him anyway, so what's the point in bringing him back?
Okay, no. No. It's not season one. That means there's three season ones now? Fuck that, way too confusing for discussion. It makes sense for Eccleston because, not counting the 90s movie, there had been an actual break and clear distinction between eras. This is a direct continuation from 20 years of the new show, with no break. That makes this decision absolute trash.
I had no idea the Whoniverse was happening (haven't been keeping up) but I share your nerves! If they try to make them all super connected like an MCU thing that I'll start getting REALLY nervous. I am not committing to watch 15 different things just to understand the ONE I actually care about. Also, for this new era (also did not know this was happening?? I'm so out of the loop!) we could just do what New^15 York did and just call it New New Who lololol
If anyone is going to do spin offs it is Big Finish. They are good at taking an idea and spinning it into a spin off of the TV series. The Jago and Lightfoot series was a great series at Big Finish. The UNIT idea has already been done by Big Finish.
I understand your concern and I'm partly as worried as you are, but it has to be said that Russel knows the world of Doctor Who well and this is not his first experience in dealing with multiple series linked together. I think that the fact that they have already shot the first season and that they are now shooting the second season is a decision taken by the Production and not by Russel, but it may be something to his advantage because he has no pressure to change things that people may not like at first but that later on, thanks to new revelations, are appreciated more. As far as spin-offs specifically, it has to be said that the only thing that is certain is that they are being talked about, it's not certain that they will be made or that if they do they will be bad or super-connected, I for example have never seen Torchwood, but I had no problem following the main series. Finally I don't think a series with 8th Doctor is a problem, I don't think it's a problem that there are 2 Doctors especially if we already know how 8th's story ends, the problem you say would be if they did something stupid like split the Doctor in 2 and have both 14th and 15th living at the same time, but I hope this is just a rumor
Whats funny, is depending on how you look at it... Ace was a companion in the finale episode of 2/3 eras of Doctor Who. (Tbh, idk if I can honestly still refer to Ncuti's Seasons as a wholly new era, but still fun to look at)
I'd really like to hear your opinion on how RTD has changed Davros regarding the Children in Need minisode, and going forward, in relation to disability and the disabled community. As a wheelchair-user, I really appreciate RTD's acknowledgement that historically, media has long associated disability with villainy, but I don't think the change was necessary. I would have rather he just focus more on bringing more positive disability represenation to the show (which it seems he plans to do anyway).
I appreciate that almost all the live action content is given one streaming home together (at least for the UK). When it comes to spin offs, I'd rather they focus on the main show at least for a couple of years especially given most of the rumoured stories either sound dull (Unit) or a bit cynical (14 and Donna).
About the 8th doctor spinoff idea: maybe this is my Clone Wars nostalgia talking, but I would love an anthology show that just picks up a different loose plot thread each episode for one or two episodes each. Like, you have an 8th doctor adventure, then you have Jenny (from The Doctor's Daughter), Clara and Me in the diner TARDIS, the Paternoster Gang, etc etc. You could get so many wild one-off stories, without splitting the fandom, since any Doctor returns would be confined to one episode. This is all just me dreaming though, because I wouldn't want them to do a crossover finale, and if this was real they definitely would. Sigh. Ideally you do it animated and don't necessarily bring back the real actors for voices (though of course you HAVE to get Paul McGann lol), so you can cover more different characters. Maybe do one episode for each Doctor? ...I realize now this is basically just animated Big Finish stories but that just makes it sound even better to me 😂
If you want a nomenclature for the 2000s Dr Who, might I suggest Who 2.0 for Eccleston, 2.1 for Tennant, 2.1.1 for Tennant again, 2.2 for Smith, etc. And now we can go to Who 3.0 with Ncuti Gatwa. Or anything similar to that.
Before watching: So far the branding has been used for the talking doctor who documentary (I forget if it was on the Doctor Who Unleashed, the new behind the scenes show, minisode to go with last night's CIN minisode), alongside the absolutely weird presentation of older material via wrapper framing narrative minisodes of two characters talking to each other about them in Tales from the TARDIS, meaning it's doing something a bit different to what the MCU IP branding is doing which seems to be 'identifying things within the MCU' which makes me... Less nervous that I'm about to get IP fatigue from this than I might have been. (And if we must have IP branding at least this ident is relatively short - I think when I compared it it was comparable to the old Paramount Pictures ident)
Realistically speaking, I think it's understandable to be nervous. I personally hope for the success of this, I agree that the main series as a whole should have the most focus. If the main series goes well enough, I'm not as bothered by the spin-offs sucking as much either. 😂 I do agree though, this is a bit too bold of a move. Yes, Doctor Who is so iconic that I kinda expected more attempts of spin-offs but, filming a second season for Ncuti is, making me a little nervous too. Still, I do so hope this goes well enough.
I've never seen you cover a topic that isn't actually a topic, but that's what happened here. The term 'Whoniverse' is purely a branding thing officially co-opted by the BBC exclusively for their iPlayer Doctor Who catalog. Any rumors about spinoffs are currently just that, with RTD having explicitly - in print and on the record - debunked the reports about a Kate Stewart/UNIT series that have been surfacing while also more broadly stating that there are no active spin-off projects in development. Bad Wolf Studios has also used the term to refer to the Doctor Who IP more broadly, but that's all it is at this time: a broad generalized reference.
I see your points. But speaking from a point post seeing Gatwa’s first series (but I also felt this before) - a spin-off doesn’t necessarily mean that we have spilt our allegiances. I for one have room in my life for more Whoniverse. I will binge-watch whatever they give me. That goes double for an Eighth Doctor TV-show. McGann is getting older, so now would be the time to do it. Before he gets too old. Especially if it fills out the time between seasons for the main show, because I do feel it’s easier to run out of steam when there is so much waiting to be done.
I think spinoff ideas seem to lack creativity in general, everything boils down to Doctor Who again, but with x character as the doctor stand in. I do agree on jumping into a lot of spinoffs out of the gate. that being said i would preferer a spinoff to have more of its own identity.Imagine Jinkx Monsooon plays an intergalactic popstar and villain in the upcoming series, then the spinoff could be an in universe biographical series following the popstar's rise to fame, and all her crimes, made after she is exposed
6:12 although he nearly retconned it in an early version of the end of time script (as shown in 'the writer's tale') but felt it was too obscure a reference and if he was going to make a reference to the doctor being human it would have made more sense to make it about the human nature two parter.
RTD is just doing exactly what he did with the original show. If Unit does wind up getting made it wouldnt be out til after season 2 just like Torchwood and SJA. But atm hes just filming a second season. Mountains outta molehills here.
I share your concerns for rushing this fast but I’m equally excited and re 8th Doctor spin off yes to put two Doctor shows competing will be strange I think if the spin off drops after the main show with enough space then it will be brilliant. Not keeping the fans waiting after what we’ve had to endure will be brilliant. It’s time to put nerves to one side and just enjoy what we’ve to come. Remember the show is in our hearts so love it for what it is:) glad to see you back on my feed. Not seen your channel pop up in ages:)
I have really never got the hatred for the Timeless Child thing. It does seem to imply fan ownership of the concept. Which doesn't really exist (unless you're the showrunner!). The series chops and changes every few years as a new voice or a new impetus comes up. There was - introducing some historical context - a certain panic after David Tennant left that mirrors what happened in 1980. And it is always justified. Back home the show has been pretty much ticking over for much of the last decade. Disney potentially means a great deal to the rest of the world and very little in the UK. What will matter is reconnecting to the public that is, at the end of the day, the primary audience - it doesn't get the same figures anywhere else.
An incredibly well articulated view which matches my own completely. Ive been worried about un-earned spin-offs and things must first be PROVEN to work and be needed rather than an executive level expectation that they will decide what we want. The best spinoffs are organic, and obviously earning their right to exist. Worst case I guess the spin-offs will just not get the viewers and die a quick death. Do we really need another "class" - I hope lessons were learned.
I am not worried for the main show, i like the idea of doctor who having spin off because i was apart of that target audience for Sarah jane then class even though it was not the best tbh i still believe it wasnt given a fair enough chance to prove it self, the one thing that does scare me is that RTD likes to get bigger and better each season, tbh the spin off ideas that used to interest me wouldn't be the spin offs we get...like the unit one is the safest idea for one, there will mostly be a character in season 1 like captain jack how he first appeared in series 1 then a few years late he was the lead of torchwood
Am thinking its a branding thing. The new serial number means fans unhappy can choose other services. The other services have all the costs of broadcasting those shows. This acts as a attractor too Disney Plus and new Dr Who... so it's almost like outsourcing and they may be likely getting the old shows too once the present deals are up.
Pre Video Comment. Just learned Yesterday that Tubi (in US and Canada?) is offering "All" (Complete Available to stream Stories) of Classic Who. (An Unearthly Child and the "Lost" Stories not yet Animated are current examples) Glad for that... I recorded a Twitch Marathon several years ago (Via Roku and a DVD Recorder in 12 hour Blocks) which was mostly comprehensive of the Live Action (and Some Animated?) Stories. That was a huge improvement over my scattered collection of VHS,DVD, and OTA VHS Recordings from the 80's and 90's. But being able to quickly select from a Menu/Channel of a specific Doctor or just watch it Live... Much Nicer. Not sure if/where the alternative "Whoniverse" spinoff stuff that BBC Iplayer has will be in US (HBOMax? Most likely already does?) But hoping we'll be offered the same perks as UK/BBC viewers sooner rather then later. I remember having to wait YEARS for "new" (Classic Who) episodes... When ever the local PBS Stations decided to air new Seasons/Episodes years after they'd aired. Then the several years to watch from the Beginning (Unearthly Child) 5 Nights a Week OTA. Oh the luxury of Instant VOD...
I don’t mind having spinoffs. I think I was the only person who liked _Class._ But the idea that _Doctor Who_ stories take place within a self-consistent fictional universe is at odds with sixty years of storytelling.
I actually really liked 'Class' and wished we got more of it. I think it suffered most from bad advertising and airing in the US and UK months apart (IIRC). I'm glad its getting a bit of a re-evaluation.
Most of the so far is iplayer based for all old Doctor Who related material in one place. We have Tales of the TARDIS a kind of spin off and RTD hasn't committed to any spin offs as yet. Currently in UK media an 8th Doctor Spin off is being heavily pushed. With Doctor Who only having 8 episodes plus a Christmas special means there is space in the schedule for a spin off or 2. In the meantime we have special editions of Classic Who either as Tales of The TARDIS or enhanced colourisations and new animations.
My video on the issue of the BBC's support of Transphobia: ruclips.net/video/aN4uc0HZrWE/видео.html
My video on the BBC's response to complaints of its reporting: ruclips.net/video/skh81N5lcYY/видео.html
My short on why I'll continue to put up the note at the front of these: ruclips.net/user/shortsHpwwzjzFXiE
Shaun's 1st video, which includes some additional confirmed information: ruclips.net/video/b4buJMMiwcg/видео.html
Shaun’s 2nd video, which follows how the BBC is trying to dodge accountability for all of this: ruclips.net/video/qfjTG6SVjmQ/видео.html
Shaun’s 3rd video, following him escalating his complaints: ruclips.net/video/fRn1UZ4fhdE/видео.html
Shaun's 4th video, covering the BBC's response: ruclips.net/video/3F7GW7Ro4OQ/видео.html
Laura Kate Dale's protest speech outside the BBC offices: ruclips.net/video/hBjGnWkwAjI/видео.html
I think the alternative to already shooting season 2 is far worse: gap years. After each gap year the viewership for Doctor Who declined tremendously. RTD wants to avoid that at any cost. Don't forget, Doctor Who will still be rooted in linear TV.
Yeah, which is not dissimilar to how it used to be run. If i recall correctly, they already announced David Tennent as the 10th doctor before a single episode of 2005 Who had aired, cuz they had to, cuz it was a yearly thing.
Worries about the Whoniverse are absolutely valid, but I don't think that Gatwa's 2nd season being shot already should necessarily have to be a part of that concern specifically. That's just Doctor Who doing its own thing, same way that it did the first time under RTD, to be able to deliver a season a year.
@@Smouv I just did some Googling on the timeline for David Tennant's original casting because I distinctly remember them announcing Christopher Eccleston's departure a few days after "Rose" aired and not immediately confirming the who would be replacing him. Turns out this is the timeline:
26 March 2005 - "Rose" aired
30 March 2005 - Christopher Eccleston's departure announced
16 April 2005 - David Tennant's casting announced, the same day "Aliens of London" aired
18 June 2005 - The 10th Doctor first appeared in "The Parting of the Ways"
@@jamesoneill8920 thank you for the refresher, it has been a hot minute!
@@Smouvnot at all, it was a secret that leaked after there had been friction beetween Eccleston and unnamed BBC procuders during production of season 1. He was originally meant to play the doctor for many seasons.
An 8th Doctor show is a brilliant idea. Especially in 1996.
I love the 8th so much, the audio plays are so good, I always wanted to see more of him on screen
As much as I love Paul McGann, the thought of Doctor Who on Fox gives me shivers.
Continuing on with a series following on from the TV movie in 1996 would have been a mistake. Not only would we have been firmly saddled with that American tonal slant and the half-human thing (which thankfully was hard retconned by Journey's End, despite what Nathaniel claims in this video), but we also never would have gotten the fantastic revival series in 2005, since the show wouldn't have needed reviving. It's for the best that an 8th Doctor series (if the rumours are true) is coming now and not then.
For awesome McGann watch Annika (don’t spoil it I’m on S1 ;) ) So happy he turned up.
That's just the same show twice.
I feel like he's making another season really soon because he doesn't want to lose the interest he got for these specials. A lot of people think the waning interest in the show has been due to the gap years. If he just breaks after Ncuti's first series, he might lose all that momentum for no reason at all.
While the specials will get people interested again it all depends on the first series being good to keep people coming back and its quite possibly dangerous to do a second series so quickly if the first series doesnt deliver. I think if this series is good enough to hold it momentum then a second series coming so close is not quite necessary and could be equally damaging not to let it sink in
@@Venemofthe888 I don't agree. Its not like we're gonna get two series back to back in one year. Its gonna be the Tennant specials, Ncuti's series in Spring 2024 (I think I heard) then we gotta wait until Christmas 2024 for Ncuti's second series to begin. That's a good space between. It just seems like a lot now because a lot is gonna be coming in these next few months.
Its basically what Star Trek is doing, all the modern Trek shows got a 2 season order so that they can keep to a yearly schedule, and while it ended poorly for the first show with Star Trek Discovery being polarizing and having to course correct in season 3, it also paid off with shows like Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks keeping their momentum. Right now, Lower Decks season 5 production is already progressing despite season 4 finishing only late last month and they're usually making the new season while the old one is airing, so the show can have a very consistent schedule that people are happy with.
I trust that RTD will be more in the latter camp than the former, though when the showrunning is taken over by someone else I can see this method being risky
I mean look at what happened with Chibnall's run. A year long 'break' between Series 11 and Series 12, followed by a period where we got only a single episode between the 1st March 2020 and the 31st of October 2021.
What little momentum Whittaker had (which considering the finale of Series 11 was Battle of Ranskoor and the finale of Series 12 was Timeless Children, two of the worst episodes in her whole run, meant that she had very little momentum) was completely lost by the breaks.
Another factor might be that Ncuti wants to film two seasons back-to-back so that he can then move onto other projects. Haven't heard this mentioned anywhere but thought I'd throw it into the mix
I'd say Sarah Jane Adventures was veerrrryyy good, even rewatching it last year as an adult it still stood strong, had some good links to the main show, and it was the only show which the Trickster appeared in who (I think) is my fav Who villain
AGREED. I think it gets underrated because it was a 'children's show', but I personally thought it was the strongest of the spin-offs and generally quite well written (it also helped that the vibe reminded me a lot of Classic Who a lot of the times and, being a MASSIVE Classic Who fan, that was right up my alley).
P.S. Also, I was in my mid-30s back when it aired. And while it has some children's-TV elements, writing it off just because you're not in that demographic is a mistake, IMO.
@@NicoleM_radiantbabyit was the most consistent. Torchwood kept stumbling but found some really good stuff along the way whilst Class never even left the finish line. SJA remained consistently good throughout
i watched it as a kid, and rewatched it again as a uni student. i don't think the approach is hugely different to doctor who in the sense that it's aimed at a family demographic. i think both children and adults can enjoy it. i didn't feel like i was watching something very childish.
The fact that they’re filming everything so far in advance is actually really reassuring to me - I think because in the Writers Tale you can really feel the pressure of the production schedule on the process & I think the showrunners probably learned a lot from that- having that breathing space before the public has seen anything to really spend the time getting it right, having the luxury of reshoots/pickups, time in the edit. I wonder if they are really spending the time getting the main series right now, so that they then can shift their focus to spin offs while the show is airing. Then when the spin offs air they can shift back to the main series. That way the teams aren’t constantly in split focus. That is my hope anyway!
I'm of two minds myself.
If they pull it off much like how the first R.T.D. era went with spin-offs, then it won't be a problem. Doctor Who's main story was largely understandable even without what was going on with the two Earth bound teams of alien hunters. "The Stolen Earth" and "Journey's End" made perfect sense as you knew that Jack and Sarah Jane were still investigating alien phenomena on Earth. It makes you want to see those adventures like a backdoor pilot of sorts.
But... this isn't the mid to late 2000s anymore. We live in the age of everyone wanting their own MCU, chomping at the bit for movies that can come off as more like pilots to a TV series than anything. You gotta see XYZ to understand this movie character's deal. Few movies can be as self-contained due to the allure of hyper-interconnectivity in today's age of the world wide web.
and most of the spin-offs will probably be more easily accessible only to UK citizens
I think that the problem today isn't the spin-offs themselves, it is having to have watched a whole list of movies/tv shows/whatever to understand the next thing that comes out. As long as they keep things like in RTD1 (like you said, when Sarah Jane and Jack showed up we knew who they were and what they had been doing in the meantime because those thing were explained in the main show) it should be fine.
@@TheGabygael It's a shame SJA never got a full US airing as far as I could fine. It's not like the BBC couldn't have aired it since it's only slightly toned down from Doctor Who. Lord knows that (possible) child death wasn't off the table for it.
@@NankitaBR I feel like the consquences of having a popular thing that has an expansive universe is that spin-off of any medium is inevitable. The MCU has some excuse of being based on the vast history of comic books from Marvel but that can only go so far.
+++++
Regarding the Flux references in Wild Blue Yonder, I wouldn't be surprised if RTD has a line referencing how Donna avoided the Sontarans all over Earth (or other examples of wide spread alien invasions in the Moffat and Chibnall eras).
I honestly theorised for a while that she would’ve died during The Monks arc in Capaldi’s final season. The Doctor was literally on TV daily and information about Daleks and Cybermen would have been beamed directly into her head, that would have killed her
Another Dalek altering fate for her?
As a UK fan, I feel like the 'Whoniverse' concept is more focused on "Look, all things Doctor Who is now in one place on the BBC- as it should be".
With spin-offs, my understanding is everything is pure speculation right now. The UK media are in a frenzy saying theres going to be a UNIT spin-off, 8th Doctor spin-off Torchwoods return...
Yet there has been no leaked filming to my knowledge, which suggests they are focusing on Ncutis first 2 seasons and seeing how it is received before working on his 3rd and starting on spin-offs. The pace of filming is RTDs desire to make Doctor Who a yearly show, although I agree its a gamble depending on how 'successful/unsuccessful' it is on Disney+.
I'm getting a BIG "it's 2005 again babyyyy" vibes from all of this. Murray Gold, spin-offs, behind-the-scenes show and most importantly, calling it season 1. It all feels like 2005 again with more money.
I liked 2005, I like the first RTD era, but I also want Doctor Who to evolve. I don't want 2005 all over again.
The thing I'll say is I've noticed anytime you're invested in a project you are never optimistic. It just seems joyless in a weird way. But I do share your sentiment. Mostly because I've never seen someone return to a property and not fail at recapturing the magic
For me, this is my natural state. If a thing is good and I've liked it, I'm going to be nervous about losing that. I can't help it. This is my brain. I like to think I can still find the joy in a thing once I have it, I'm just not the type to commit to joy before I have it.
Expect disappointment and you'll either be pleasantly surpised or figure 'eh, saw that coming' is the way unfortunately
I personally feel that comparing a British TV show to Hollywood blockbuster franchises is kinda jumping the gun. Yes, doctor who is popular, but it's not marvel or DC or even Lego. It seems that disney has been kinda hands off creatively, so all your concerns seem directed at RTD, who has successfully made 4 series of doctor who previously. I have faith in him and in his vision because, for me, he's established trust. He's not a big studio. He's just a dude.
This is what I think because it's not like this has never been done before he literally made 4 seasons and this is just a continuation of that
I think Gatwa's said he's doing theatre work after S2 wraps, which might be why they're filming S2 as early as they are (Though I do know that with Tennant's theatre work during the filming of the specials in 2009 he took the season of specials as an opportunity to do it rather than that being the reason for doing the season of specials back in 2009).
Not sure where you're getting anything beyond rumour about a UNIT spinoff, though - There's a couple of highly speculative Radio Times articles that I can find based on a former Torchwood writer saying it would be nice to see that come back and the fact Kate Stewart is in an episode in the next season. Which... It might happen. It's a fairly obvious choice for a spinoff. But I'm not seeing anything that feels like it's more than someone trying to get an easy 500-1000 word article about an IP during a hype cycle for it when SEO for it is high. We know spinoffs are planned (though... I'm less clear on if stuff like Tales from the TARDIS - Even documentary stuff since Talking Doctor Who (which was David Tennant presenting archive interview footage and watching behind the scenes footage of the Logopolis regeneration scene) - might be considered spinoffs considering they had the Whoniverse brand ident at the front of them.
I'm not nervous at all. The whoniverse isn't just what's to come. It's the combination of what's already there with things coming up. I'm currently rewatching Torchwood and I'm just really enjoying it. It doesn't have to have an IMDB score of 8.5 it's a fun low budget scifi show. I doubt having the first series air before filming the second series would make any difference in the writing or in the plans anyway. I have faith in Russell's work. Mcgann wouldn't be competing with Ncuti it would probably be a miniseries filler. And it's the BBC tales of the TARDIS shows how fun the attention to the whoniverse can be.
I would be really interested in your thoughts on RTD’s recent comments about Davros, and how they’re going to retcon him being disabled. It’s made me a little nervous. He’s also replied to a comment criticizing that decision on his IG with “tough”. On top of his old comments about how David Tennant appearing in Jodie Whittaker’s costume would have been offensive; I’m worried about his views becoming performative social justice. I’m very left leaning, and fully support writing characters in wheelchairs, or showing a person’s becoming disabled. Wilfred is in a wheelchair now, and I believe a new younger character in a wheelchair is being introduced as well, which is exciting for representation, but it feels wrong to remove a character’s disability because that just erases one more disabled character.
I had the same reservations and also commented about it here, but others have pointed out that the disabled have been routinely villainised in media for centuries. Darth Vader, Shakespeare's King Richard III, countless James Bond villains, even Dr Claw. Just about every famous disabled character in media is a villain. The only one I can think of who isn't (besides characters who have means to make their disabilities completely impactless like Luke Skywalker) is Chip from the original Transformers cartoon, and hardly anyone has heard of him.
With this in mind I can understand why RTD would be unhappy about the notion of adding to that further. Personally I would simply retire the character rather than retcon him, he's pretty played out after all this time anyway, but I'm not the showrunner.
Regarding his avoidance of having David Tennant wearing Jodie Whittaker's clothes, I agree it's kinda silly, but there is the fact that the British tabloids are absolutely relentless and no issue is to small or silly for them to kick up a huge media storm about it.
@@SarcyBoi41 Coming from a place of love, but someone who’s not a wheelchair user, I feel it’s just more important for those people to have the biggest say in whether or not Davros is problematic. Personally, I’ve seen nothing but disabled people come forward criticizing the retcon. While yes, Davros is indeed a villain, none of his actions are because he’s disabled, in fact, he’s on the same level as any other Doctor Who villain in spite of his disabilities. Not saying fans can personally connect to Davros, but a lot of fans love engaging with entertainment through seeing themselves on screen. I feel the issue more so if the erasure of a disabled character on television regardless. Imagine if the new Davros can walk, and a disabled fan chooses to cosplay the old version. Suddenly their cosplay is out of date, and they’d see a non disabled person cosplaying their character more accurately. It alienates in my opinion. RTD should be giving us more hero figures in wheel chairs if he cared about representation. Which he is in the 60th specials. Both showing a character that could previously walk needing a wheelchair, and that new character seen in BTS who’s very young in a wheelchair. RTD is doing the right thing, but erasing this character is just not the solution in my opinion. There’s room for disabled villains in our programming. If there’s a history of disabled people being portrayed as villains, RTD should minimize that aspect of his character. I’d rather see Davros improved as a disabled character than “fixed” or retconned as “normal”. Personally I’ve been wanting to see an exoskeleton/mecha suit Davros in DW but now I feel this situation will cause Davros to always be seen through a different lense.
@@SarcyBoi41 I just also want to add that while the most famous depictions of disabled people in media tend to be evil villains, I don’t want to deny that fact, but personally the villains tend to be the more interesting character, and that doesn’t seem like a pressing issue with everything going on in the world. We wouldn’t want to erase these from our history. Arguably these characters being disabled makes them far more interesting characters. If a character, like Darth Vader, is not actively being problematic in depicting their disability, then why is it a problem? It feels the conversation should be directed towards writing more disabled hero protagonists. Personally I can also name Professor X, who’s one of my favorites.
To be honest, I was a bit unclear on what they were doing with Davros. I thought it was just for the special? Plus, do they even need to bring back Davros? Julian Bleach is great, but like, who cares anymore?
Idea: how about calling Series 1 to 13 "Millennium Who", given it began with the start of the new Millennium? Has a nice ring to it and pretty easy to understand in relation to the Current Nu Who and Classic Who.
But didn't series 1 firat air in 2005 whereas the new millennium began in 2001?
@@adamdavis1648 While true, the revival series began development between 1998 to 2002. Further, while it might not be *strictly* the most accurate name for the Revival for Doctor Who, it's easy to remember and catchy.
I don't know if you've seen it, but they just released a comical Doctor Who short for Children in Need featuring Davros without his life-support chair (still played by Julien Bleach). I and everyone else assumed this was simply because it was set before whatever incident put him in that chair. But in the behind-the-scenes special ("Doctor Who Unleashed"), RTD says that this change was made because he felt it was ableist to portray a wheelchair-user as a villain. I can understand why he would do that for a Children in Need special as disabled children are a focus of the charity's work, but his words heavily implied that this is a permanent retcon of Davros' design moving forward. The Doctor even said during the special that "the canon is unraveling", a word choice that may imply dramatic retcons to Doctor Who lore (I could be overanalysing there, but I think most of us expect the Timeless Child to be retconned at some point at the least).
I'd like to hear your thoughts on this if possible since you seem more in tune on these things than most (though obviously you aren't a wheelchair user so only if you're still comfortable discussing it). To me it just kinda feels like patronizing infantilisation of wheelchair-users, he framed it in a way that implies ever seeing a wheelchair-using villain would be traumatic for them. I don't want to make any assumptions but it really feels like the kind of "inclusive" decision that was made without any present members of the group in question.
Again, no pressure if this is something you aren't comfortable talking about or simply don't think is worth addressing
EDIT: Here's the link to the behind-the-scenes clip in question ruclips.net/video/zb-PHsKGjjQ/видео.htmlsi=4cgDH6MURnOIp4l3
I should clarify that I myself am not a wheelchair-user, but I am autistic, and if RTD had been speaking that way about autistic people as if we're helplessly fragile I would feel patronised, insulted and infantilised. But being infantilised is nothing new for us autistic folks sadly.
I won't have much of an issue with this provided that when he is reintroduced in the show in a post "The Witch's Familiar" story, it's given an in-universe explanation. But I'm really worried that RTD is just going to fully retcon it with zero explanation, which could set a rather troubling precedent for the future of this franchise.
So RTD has already gone on the record stating that he will not be retconning the Timeless Child, so I don't think that is going to change.
What’s the betting that if Banakaffallata ever makes another appearance (I know he died, but so did Clara, Bill, The Master, and indeed Davros), they’ll retcon the fact that he’s a cyborg so that people with pacemakers aren’t being lumped in with a “talking conker”?
I didn’t come across to me as patronising or infantilising. He just said he was uncomfortable with having a physically disabled villain and that Dr who is about moving with the times and what’s acceptable.
There’s a long history of disabled people being villains (Darth Vader, Shakespeare’s Richard III & half of bond villains etc) as disability has always been seen as scary, othered and their anger at an ableism society is a reason for them becoming villains.
Also with Darvos there’s the issue of the Daleks being based on the Nazis when disabled people were the first people to be murdered by the regime. The fact that Julian said in 2008 that Darvos is a cross between Hitler and Stephen Hawking is awful.
Personally, I’m glad they changed it and just so you know wheelchair user is the preferred term not wheelchair bound.
I agree with everything RTD says her first he says how it's not just davros, theres a large amount of media representing people with disibilites as evil and he doesn't want to add to that negative trope. Idk how you can weirdly from nowhere twist that argument into infantalization or that he thinks disabled people would be traumatized. It's like how in trans representation in media has for many years been villains, serial killers or victims so most people avoid those tropes in the modern day.
Secondly, he says how sure theres nothing wrong with the past iterations due to it being in the past but he wants doctor who to move with the current state of progress. So yeah it's a retcon, of the future interpretations of davros.
Finally, Exactly don't make an assumption, you don't know who was in the room so you cant just assume stuff about there being no members present. Just because you don't like the decision. RTD has been pretty good in the past with getting proper representation with actors and such.
I think an Eighth Doctor spinoff could work as an animated series. An animated show would have a more limited demographic so that it wouldn't compete with the main show. It would also allow them to explore any period in the Eighth Doctor's life and not _just_ the later period of his life where he's old and miserable.
oh wow I love this idea so much!
Disney+: it's season 1
Me: it's season 40
My Brother and I: Yeah, Season 40!!!!
I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with Jinkx Monsoon.
“Doctor Who’s Whoniverse makes me nervous” Not surprised at all.
Ty for the continuing intro Vera, it’s important and matters at the very least to your viewers like me. Much appreciated, I’ll never be annoyed by it, it’s the right thing to do.
So so happy the strikes are over & we get to see all your thoughts and your Specials reviews as soon as you can make them. Yay for that! (When we in the US will actually get to see the eps is so weirdly a mystery… That there alone is making me nervous ;) )
Yes, goodness, terrified as a fan (of course what’s new.) Also obvs very hopeful & excited. Totally hear you about the corporitazion problem… lordy.
That said, you’ve never pulled your punches. So while I hope for my fave-type glowing & deep reviews, like Vincent, I fully expect thoughtful mixed reviews (the other 99%.) And that will obvs (almost) never mean the show itself is all bad. Love all the discussion & thoughts, esp in yr comments. These folks are generally super thoughtful & just cool. Love the space you have here. So, i expect a mix, and I think it’ll be ok.
Best wishes and ❤️ to the show, and to us all.
I do think this is fairly similar, if somewhat sped up version, of what Russell and the rest of the production staff were doing back in the 2000s. Tennant's first series was being filmed as Eccleston's went out and spinoffs were being planned as a part of the revival in the early planning stages of 2003/4 (although here planning seems to be off the backburner more this time around).
I think in terms of filming the BBC and the production team want a consistent schedule for the show to maintain and hold interest which the inconsistency of the Moffat releases lost in that era where sometimes you'd go a year or more without a new series. Also, as mentioned in other comments, I do think that if they want to hold onto Ncuti, at least for these two series, then they'll need to film consistently and early given I assume he wants to take on more Hollywood and big parts. I don't really see this as an issue, it feels fairly in-line with a lot of shows do and I'm happy that seemingly Who will become a yearly thing again.
As for actual spinoffs? Not all that interested in them generally. I like Torchwood, or at least series 2 and 3 (and aspects of 4), thought Class was fine, and love SJA but so long as they keep the core show up to standard I'll be happy.
Heavily disagree on Torchwoods first 2 seasons being crap.
The writing in those at time exceeded Doctor who
RTD has (successful) form with this sort of showrunning... More than just Doctor Who, Torchwood and Sarah Jane Adventures, he *constantly* had Who on the air in a way his fellow NuWho showrunners frequently failed spectacularly to do.
Not only did he somehow manage to stick to that apparently 'impossible' 13 episodes a year schedule. He also had Doctor Who Confidential, Doctor Who Unleashed, those weird mini-episodes online, etc - all of which only really fell of a cliff when he stepped down as showrunner. He also managed to get Cucumber, Banana, and Tofu on the air more or less simultaneously?
Was it a terrifyingly inhuman amount of work to demand of one person? Yes... And that's the bit that makes me nervous, asking him to do it all again nearly 20 years later but, as a creator? Given he was the man that brought Who back from its long exile in the first place? Nah.
The Beeb still aren't *quite* at the purely for profit stage of corporate fuckery as their rival TV companies. Not yet anyway... If they've pre-filmed all of this I take it as a sign they're prepared to air it.
I AM thrilled that Gold is back. His themes for Ruby and the 15th are amazing.
Ruby's theme, I thought, was particularly gorgeous.
@@ftumschk Very true.
The big difference I feel like, from all those failed attempts at big interconnected universes, is that they were all starting from scratch.
Doctor Who is already a big expansive interconnected multimedia universe
The Snyderverse had 1 poorly received Superman movie behind it when they started pushing forward, "Whoniverse" has 60 years of beloved content behind it
This 100% agree with, 60 years is a long time. It’s not like it’s a band new ip.
Strange new worlds, Lower Decks, Picard, and Discovery aren't splitting the Trek community. Some fans watch all, some watch just the ones they like. I have no worries about an 8th doctor mini series.
Literally agree with everything you’ve said 😅
Idk I’m mixed on the new era. I’m cautiously optimistic.
Looking forward to hearing what you think of the specials soon :)
I’ve been nervous since RTD’s return was first announced, then my fears kept building with Tennant’s return, and now with Murray Gold’s return, the spin-offs and “Whoniverse” thing - I might as well stick with pre-2024 Who and headcanon the show ending with 13 mid regenerating. I 100% agree with you about Torchwood, I never got the hype for it but as for SJA, it was part of my childhood so I’m biased. Class was alright, but could’ve been better and should’ve been given a chance but the BBC (and majority of fandom) clearly don’t like anything that isn’t written or produced by Russell T Davies. Said showrunner has recently got backlash and I’m glad he has. As a disabled person and wheelchair user myself, his “comments” about Davros were beyond ridiculous. But that’s a different topic for another time. Back to the topic at hand - the “Whoniverse”, I‘ve never seen the interest in spin-offs or a wider fictional universe. While some may be fun, they’re forgettable and don’t add anything, unless an episode plot stems from that or wields into something else. I hope RTD2 turns out to be good, but it’s not looking like it will be with everything that’s gone on and will be happening. When it comes crashing down and burning, I’ll be gleefully telling certain fans: “I told you so, but you didn’t listen”. Russell and the production team’s priorities should be the main show first, spin-offs second and universe third. Take it slow, otherwise viewers will be alienated and they’ll have the same problems as they do now with the MCU and the like.
I hope you're wrong too. I was so excited about Jodie's Doctor & was terribly let down by everything, not Jodie herself but pretty much everything else. So, I am already more reserved than I would have been for what's coming up. But...I think a little trepidation that ultimately gets blown out of the water is better than super hype that ends up in disappointment.
I agree with you about the eighth Doctor, but I would love to see a large movie/special with him. Or let the new Doctor regenerate into him for a couple of episodes. They already showed it with the Fourth and Tenth.
I'm very mixed on the whole season/series renumbering thing. Disney have carte blanche to do so for their side of distribution and marketing since they're not getting series 1-13, but I feel like the BBC doing it for the UK folk would be more alienating; they didn't reset in 2010 for new audiences when Moffat took over (though could've done), nor in 2018 with Chibnall, so why now? It's only been a couple years since the last series, only a lengthy hiatus would really justify it. Granted, it is all just semantics and there are more important things going on in the world, but this sort of thing sends my brain into overdrive.
As for already shooting Ncuti's second series (good luck saying that drunk) long before his first is out, I suppose that's because they want to get enough footage in the can while he's still available before he commits to any Hollywood roles or turns his attention to treading the boards so as to avoid a Sherlock-type situation where you wouldn't able to do much while your lead(s) is off doing one of those two things, but the apprehension about a possible adverse reception to his first series is totally understandable.
I’m surprised you didn’t talk about Tales of Tardis? What are your thoughts on that? And the minisode (which I know came out after recording this)?
I think a Paul Mgann mini series isn’t a bad idea if it’s just a limited series, one and done sorta thing. That way it won’t compete with the main show but just be a nice spin off.
As far as Sarah Jane Adventures goes, I think older fans watched it due to nostalgia. Sarah Jane is at the top of best companion lists for a reason.
Plus I literally cried when Liz Sladen died, such a tragedy.
I think I largely agree with the points you made, but I do think an 8th Doctor mini series could actually work. If it was done as a mini series and done in between seasons of the main series it wouldn't detract from the main series. They would have to market it properly though, market it specifically as a mini series and not a replacement for the main series and throw in a lot of stuff like "Take a look back at a previously unseen part of the Doctors past" or something like that. But yeah properly marketed and done as a mini series in between the main seasons, an eighth doctor series could totally work without splitting the fanbase (although to be fair the fanbase is almost always split due to how many doctors we've had thus far haha)
I do not give two shits about Dr. Who but I love Vera and her takes on this. Yes, wait until the first thing works OR wait until you can see what DID NOT work, so you can FIX IT in the next thing. Hope you have an excellent Thanksgiving weekend!
I’m with you on this. It very much DOES all seem like a big corporate push.
In an absolutely worse case scenario, if series 1 of the new show turns out to be a load of garbage, there will be no chance to put it right until series 2. By that time a lot of viewers will have walked away. That being said, at least it means that the show won’t get cancelled before we get a second series.
The ‘Whoniverse’ branding and logo animation has more than a passing resemblance to the Disney Marvel one. And I suspect that a lot of this has to do with requirements laid out in the agreement made with Disney. The more money Dr Who has thrown at it, the more ‘branded’ and homogenised it all seems. It’s as if it’s becoming more and more like every other franchise out there, and I fear that the show will lose a lot of what made it unique.
I’m concerned about how the show will be treated now that it’s a joint project between BBC, Bad Wolf/Sony and Disney. It’s like those movies where you have to sit through a list of different company logos before you get to the film! And I wouldn’t trust Disney to look after a hard-boiled egg, let alone this show that I’ve loved for over 40 years. It all now comes down to how much I trust RTD, and how much power he actually has to make the show he wants without corporate interference. I trust RTD. I think it’s in safe hands. But with so many fingers in the pie, I hope RTD isn’t going to hamstrung by interference from on-high.
From the point of the U.K. audience at least, RTD’s already pulled a few aces out of his sleeve. He fought to get Classic Who available on iPlayer. Not only that, but he also managed to get a new documentary together, hosted by David Tenant. It was a bit superficial, but fun. He’s managed to get the brilliant Whose Doctor Who documentary from 1977 onto iPlayer as well. And, thanks to him pushing for as much Who content as possible, we’ve also got the brilliant documentary about the shamefully overlooked Delia Derbyshire on there as well. We also got Tales Of The TARDIS. This was essentially a series of classic Who stories edited together as one episode, bookended with newly filmed scenes with past Doctors and companions reminiscing in a ‘memory TARDIS’ which were touching for old fans and a good way to introduce old stories to new fans. And then he pulled together an amusing scene for Children In Need with 14 and Davros which was a bit silly, but good fun to watch. So he’s already earned some points as far as I’m concerned. So I’m hopeful that all will go well. But yes, I do share your concerns.
Had this sense of worry 30 years ago when TNG was ending and DS9 was starting, so I can relate.
Everything that has happened since Ncuti Gatwa was cast has indicated to me that RTD is just making 2005 Doctor Who again. And he's killing my excitement. I was so looking forward to Ncuti, I believed in Russell and thought his original work was a strong indication that he was a new writer. But he seems so obsessed with his own work on the show that he's not going to push Who in the new direction it desperately needs, and just fall back on his old style. Which I'm sure some people will appreciate, but I'm just not that interested.
Sorry, but I must disagree on the idea of an eighth Doctor series. I feel the same way about this idea that I do about a Jo Martin limited series, which is that yes, the idea of a fractured fandom is something to consider, but not as much as the opportunity to give these people a crack at something they legitimately deserved. I think 10 years from now, fans will care far more about the 8th Doctor or Fugitive Doctor series existing far more than they will care about whether the fandom was fractured at the time. I think the job of the showrunner is to make the show, and by extension the property, as good as it can be, and to market it. Everything else is up to the fandom IMO.
Much as I don't like this either, it very clearly isn't a corporate push: it's a response to how insanely overworked Russell's team was the first time round. This is why I'm okay with 1 series every 18 months like Chris did, as opposed to every 12 months: the staff aren't overworked, but this solution doesn't break communication between storyteller and listener.
Im both excited and utterly terrified for this new era. It feels like it could either be the beginning of something amazing or the second wilderness era. Which tbh both i would be happy with? Like it would be disappointing but maybe five-ten years or so to get new people and new ideas will help doctor who
Although i am a fan of a lot of the creations from the wilderness era- particularly eighth doctor audios+the novels because of the experimentation and wacky-ness so maybe im biased haha
Funnily enough, RTD has unconfirmed the unit spin-off.
Hey, I have been wanting to hear your thoughts on the children in need special and your thoughts on what Russell said in the clips of Doctor Who Unleashed for this special. It's got many people up in arms and nervous as well. Furthermore, I agree with most of your thoughts on why you are nervous. I guess the only thing we can do is wait and hope. And yes, we all want this stuff to do well and amaze us. But you are also right in terms of what history shows. Lets just hope things go well for Doctor Who again.
i completely agree with and share both your trepidation and hope here. i do have a caveat with certain types of projects: i for instance think Wheel of Time is a good example of something i would like to see a studio go deeper in without waiting for audience response, but that is because 1) it's an adaptation of a pre-existing complete, contained plot that has a planned ending and 2) the team as a plan for it that takes the entire world into account, making it less subject to going in directions just testing for viability. something like a whoniverse (and an mcu) is very different, in that there is not a specific end or overarching plot arc governing the series, and it could be theoretically indefinite
My feeling is that spin-off series would be here for us to watch in-between DW seasons/specials. Not competing, but giving us something to fill our needs while we wait. And they could be really interesting, there’s so much to do with this license. I really felt those long pauses we had recently, so I would not complain if they made more content!
And also as a 3D animator, the perspective of getting a job working on a DW animated series is just phenomenal. Crossed fingers 🤞
I think the difference between the whoniverse and other attempted expansive universes is that the amount of money riding on this is a lot less. I mean yes they are spending more than DW normally does but its still a fairly subdued amount in comparison to the mcu or dceu or something.
Also if the previous RTD spinoffs are anything to go by then the whoniverse will have the advantage that they will be deliberately designed to hit different demographics. So you have the dr who main show, you have a unit show thats perhaps more grounded and perhaps id assume a little more serious and youd have a kids show spinoff in the vein of sja. Which seems to offer more possiblities than something like csi where the shows are the same just in a different location.
The 8th Doctor is my favorite incarnation, and I'm beyond thrilled they are considering a series for him. I don't think it would necessarily split the fandom, as long as both are good and it's clear that an equal amount of thought, time and money went into both.
I think they needed enough new material to keep coming as a big problem in the last 5 years has been lack of material to look forward to so fans dropped off and forgot to come back when new series weren't promoted enough. Im not worried. I think rtd can ensure the main show is good enough, and if spinoffs arent amazing it wont hurt doctor who too much!
re music: i was not the biggest fan of "Al'Naito" when first released, but now that I've heard it in context of Wheel of Time, it's one of my favorite things ever. i actually think it is typical of tv show score to fall flat on its own, even when really good, bc we are trained to listen for pop-single or power-ballad progression in a song. but these aren't songs -- they're motifs, meant to be flexible over and over again but not to have a self-contained arc
I think shooting the second season is more out of necessity than desire, Ncuti has stated a desire to go back to theatre so it's probably allowing him to do that. I think everything to do with spinoff is still in rumour phase as of now, I think Russell's latest comments were 'There are spinoffs in the works, but not any of the one's you've seen reported online'
I guess all we can do is wait and hope. For me, anything is better than the one series whenever they can be arsed we've had for the last few years. It's something different from the last failed approach, and if it's a different kind of failed approach on Who then... a change is as good as a rest, I suppose. Especially since the whole 'time to listen to what the fans think' thing doesn't really seem to have been happening anyway.
I dunno. I have my reservations too, but I can't help but be excited for some life to be injected into what is probably Britain's most ailing franchise.
I think all that’s really worried me was just Davies, Tennant, and even Murray Gold coming back. I’m just worried it’s going to try too hard to recapture the magic of the 2005-10 run. There’s also the concept of all these spin offs and whatnot and I’m scared of the brand becoming too oversaturated all of a sudden. Disney are going to want to capitalise on it and I’m worried of it becoming like Star Wars or the MCU. If they do go the spin off route, I hope they remain unimportant to the main show.
( 6:27 ) They did make a slight mention of the human thing in Hell Bent but that’s about it. 👍🏻
As an Australian I cannot watch DW any easier: Classic is not on Britbox for Australians, Modern is much not on ABC IVIEW, and only from the 60th Specials are on Disney+!!!
as far as I know, specific spin-offs haven't been announced yet, so as far as we know they could just be filming the seasons of the main show and then announcing the first spin-off after series 1 is released.
The more stuff that seems to be pushed out with Doctor Who to come out really close together does worry me, too. But the Children In Need Special was FANTASTIC!
17:35
This aged perfectly in 3 weeks. I could not stop thinking about this during last nights episode. I am NOT happy with the last special and I am LIVID with the BS RTD continued to spew in Doctor Who unleashed. It made my nightmares about the future of Doctor Who real and front center.
My guess for the Ncuti Gatwa season 2 thing is that they are really nervous about losing him. With him getting Hollywood roles now such as being in the Barbie movie, the amount of time they will have him is possibly limited and they may not want a situation like David Tennant where they had to have huge breaks between seasons or the year of specials to accommodate his theatre runs or like with Sherlock where there were multiple years between seasons because Benedict Cumberbatch was off being a Hollywood star or Martin Freeman was too busy being Bilbo Baggins to film a BBC drama.
As to the 8th Doctor spinoff, I think it's a marvellous idea - particularly when Doctor Who is getting pushed by Disney in the USA and Doctor Who series are so short compared to American TV. Having a Doctor Who section in the Disney+ Player where there's only 8 episodes of the main show - which is the episode count for Season 1 - and then a year between would be like if the Marvel section had a year between every TV show release. Now, while there are too many Marvel releases, I think we could probably agree that just 8 forty five minute episodes of a TV show a year would be too far the other way.
A modern Doctor Who release in January then a 8th Doctor release in August then Season 2 of the main show in January again? Sounds like a lovely pace of TARDIS based TV. Plus it's likely that the 8th Doctor show will be more like Wandavision than Loki - a single season limited series with a plot about, maybe, the start of the Time War to get new people that start with Ncuti caught up on one of the key lore events of the old modern era.
Oh - something you DID miss on your roundup. There's a 2023 Christmas Special , The Church on Ruby Road, which will be Ncuti Gatwa's first full story as Doctor 15. That was something I REALLY wasn't expecting given that the 60th specials are already running into December.
Oh, and also there was a Children In Need mini episode with David Tennant yesterday that's available on RUclips and the very first episode of Doctor Who Unleashed was released on iPlayer to coincide. There's some really nice stuff with RTD talking about a redesign of a classic character because he thinks the original design demonised disabled people in a way that doesn't fly in 2023....y'know, for all those people that thought Doctor Who would stop being WOKE now that Chibnail was gone. :D
@@literaltruth I agree with his comments on the portrayal of disability in fiction. But changing the character is not a solution, it's performative. The more reasonable thing to do is to just not write about the character anymore. It's not like RTD can do anything new with him anyway, so what's the point in bringing him back?
Okay, no. No. It's not season one. That means there's three season ones now? Fuck that, way too confusing for discussion. It makes sense for Eccleston because, not counting the 90s movie, there had been an actual break and clear distinction between eras. This is a direct continuation from 20 years of the new show, with no break. That makes this decision absolute trash.
I didn't realise they'd already filmed Ncuti Gatwa's second season. Yeah I'd have to agree with you about this.
They've done his first and just started filming his second! Not that that caveat changes much😅
@@TheLastRockstarsFanArchive Well I didn't know there had been any production onhis second season yet.
I had no idea the Whoniverse was happening (haven't been keeping up) but I share your nerves! If they try to make them all super connected like an MCU thing that I'll start getting REALLY nervous. I am not committing to watch 15 different things just to understand the ONE I actually care about.
Also, for this new era (also did not know this was happening?? I'm so out of the loop!) we could just do what New^15 York did and just call it New New Who lololol
If anyone is going to do spin offs it is Big Finish. They are good at taking an idea and spinning it into a spin off of the TV series. The Jago and Lightfoot series was a great series at Big Finish. The UNIT idea has already been done by Big Finish.
I understand your concern and I'm partly as worried as you are, but it has to be said that Russel knows the world of Doctor Who well and this is not his first experience in dealing with multiple series linked together. I think that the fact that they have already shot the first season and that they are now shooting the second season is a decision taken by the Production and not by Russel, but it may be something to his advantage because he has no pressure to change things that people may not like at first but that later on, thanks to new revelations, are appreciated more. As far as spin-offs specifically, it has to be said that the only thing that is certain is that they are being talked about, it's not certain that they will be made or that if they do they will be bad or super-connected, I for example have never seen Torchwood, but I had no problem following the main series. Finally I don't think a series with 8th Doctor is a problem, I don't think it's a problem that there are 2 Doctors especially if we already know how 8th's story ends, the problem you say would be if they did something stupid like split the Doctor in 2 and have both 14th and 15th living at the same time, but I hope this is just a rumor
Whats funny, is depending on how you look at it... Ace was a companion in the finale episode of 2/3 eras of Doctor Who.
(Tbh, idk if I can honestly still refer to Ncuti's Seasons as a wholly new era, but still fun to look at)
I'd really like to hear your opinion on how RTD has changed Davros regarding the Children in Need minisode, and going forward, in relation to disability and the disabled community. As a wheelchair-user, I really appreciate RTD's acknowledgement that historically, media has long associated disability with villainy, but I don't think the change was necessary. I would have rather he just focus more on bringing more positive disability represenation to the show (which it seems he plans to do anyway).
I appreciate that almost all the live action content is given one streaming home together (at least for the UK). When it comes to spin offs, I'd rather they focus on the main show at least for a couple of years especially given most of the rumoured stories either sound dull (Unit) or a bit cynical (14 and Donna).
About the 8th doctor spinoff idea: maybe this is my Clone Wars nostalgia talking, but I would love an anthology show that just picks up a different loose plot thread each episode for one or two episodes each.
Like, you have an 8th doctor adventure, then you have Jenny (from The Doctor's Daughter), Clara and Me in the diner TARDIS, the Paternoster Gang, etc etc.
You could get so many wild one-off stories, without splitting the fandom, since any Doctor returns would be confined to one episode.
This is all just me dreaming though, because I wouldn't want them to do a crossover finale, and if this was real they definitely would. Sigh.
Ideally you do it animated and don't necessarily bring back the real actors for voices (though of course you HAVE to get Paul McGann lol), so you can cover more different characters.
Maybe do one episode for each Doctor?
...I realize now this is basically just animated Big Finish stories but that just makes it sound even better to me 😂
If you want a nomenclature for the 2000s Dr Who, might I suggest Who 2.0 for Eccleston, 2.1 for Tennant, 2.1.1 for Tennant again, 2.2 for Smith, etc. And now we can go to Who 3.0 with Ncuti Gatwa. Or anything similar to that.
Before watching: So far the branding has been used for the talking doctor who documentary (I forget if it was on the Doctor Who Unleashed, the new behind the scenes show, minisode to go with last night's CIN minisode), alongside the absolutely weird presentation of older material via wrapper framing narrative minisodes of two characters talking to each other about them in Tales from the TARDIS, meaning it's doing something a bit different to what the MCU IP branding is doing which seems to be 'identifying things within the MCU' which makes me... Less nervous that I'm about to get IP fatigue from this than I might have been.
(And if we must have IP branding at least this ident is relatively short - I think when I compared it it was comparable to the old Paramount Pictures ident)
My hat in the ring for naming the eras of Dr Who
Classic era
Revival/Regeneration era
Current Era
I hope Russell does well. I hope he waits till series 14 is shown completely before UNIT is announced and filmed.
Realistically speaking, I think it's understandable to be nervous. I personally hope for the success of this, I agree that the main series as a whole should have the most focus. If the main series goes well enough, I'm not as bothered by the spin-offs sucking as much either. 😂
I do agree though, this is a bit too bold of a move. Yes, Doctor Who is so iconic that I kinda expected more attempts of spin-offs but, filming a second season for Ncuti is, making me a little nervous too.
Still, I do so hope this goes well enough.
I've never seen you cover a topic that isn't actually a topic, but that's what happened here.
The term 'Whoniverse' is purely a branding thing officially co-opted by the BBC exclusively for their iPlayer Doctor Who catalog.
Any rumors about spinoffs are currently just that, with RTD having explicitly - in print and on the record - debunked the reports about a Kate Stewart/UNIT series that have been surfacing while also more broadly stating that there are no active spin-off projects in development.
Bad Wolf Studios has also used the term to refer to the Doctor Who IP more broadly, but that's all it is at this time: a broad generalized reference.
Me too. One of the good things about Doctor Who was that it was publicly funded television.
I personally am saying f🤬k it and calling it Season 40. It's probably only legal nonsense anyway.
I see your points. But speaking from a point post seeing Gatwa’s first series (but I also felt this before) - a spin-off doesn’t necessarily mean that we have spilt our allegiances. I for one have room in my life for more Whoniverse.
I will binge-watch whatever they give me.
That goes double for an Eighth Doctor TV-show. McGann is getting older, so now would be the time to do it. Before he gets too old.
Especially if it fills out the time between seasons for the main show, because I do feel it’s easier to run out of steam when there is so much waiting to be done.
I think spinoff ideas seem to lack creativity in general, everything boils down to Doctor Who again, but with x character as the doctor stand in. I do agree on jumping into a lot of spinoffs out of the gate. that being said i would preferer a spinoff to have more of its own identity.Imagine Jinkx Monsooon plays an intergalactic popstar and villain in the upcoming series, then the spinoff could be an in universe biographical series following the popstar's rise to fame, and all her crimes, made after she is exposed
6:12 although he nearly retconned it in an early version of the end of time script (as shown in 'the writer's tale') but felt it was too obscure a reference and if he was going to make a reference to the doctor being human it would have made more sense to make it about the human nature two parter.
RTD is just doing exactly what he did with the original show. If Unit does wind up getting made it wouldnt be out til after season 2 just like Torchwood and SJA. But atm hes just filming a second season. Mountains outta molehills here.
So good to have your Doctor Who content back!
I share your concerns for rushing this fast but I’m equally excited and re 8th Doctor spin off yes to put two Doctor shows competing will be strange I think if the spin off drops after the main show with enough space then it will be brilliant. Not keeping the fans waiting after what we’ve had to endure will be brilliant. It’s time to put nerves to one side and just enjoy what we’ve to come. Remember the show is in our hearts so love it for what it is:) glad to see you back on my feed. Not seen your channel pop up in ages:)
It's post-modern Who, obviously. XD
I could not agree more. With every new thing announced or rumoured, my heart has sunk lower.
I have really never got the hatred for the Timeless Child thing. It does seem to imply fan ownership of the concept. Which doesn't really exist (unless you're the showrunner!). The series chops and changes every few years as a new voice or a new impetus comes up. There was - introducing some historical context - a certain panic after David Tennant left that mirrors what happened in 1980. And it is always justified. Back home the show has been pretty much ticking over for much of the last decade. Disney potentially means a great deal to the rest of the world and very little in the UK. What will matter is reconnecting to the public that is, at the end of the day, the primary audience - it doesn't get the same figures anywhere else.
Assuming
The public
Wants the new stuff
Otherwise the public
Won't be watching it
An incredibly well articulated view which matches my own completely.
Ive been worried about un-earned spin-offs and things must first be PROVEN to work and be needed rather than an executive level expectation that they will decide what we want.
The best spinoffs are organic, and obviously earning their right to exist.
Worst case I guess the spin-offs will just not get the viewers and die a quick death. Do we really need another "class" - I hope lessons were learned.
2005 - 2023 series of Doctor Who could now be called Classic New Doctor Who
I am not worried for the main show, i like the idea of doctor who having spin off because i was apart of that target audience for Sarah jane then class even though it was not the best tbh i still believe it wasnt given a fair enough chance to prove it self, the one thing that does scare me is that RTD likes to get bigger and better each season, tbh the spin off ideas that used to interest me wouldn't be the spin offs we get...like the unit one is the safest idea for one, there will mostly be a character in season 1 like captain jack how he first appeared in series 1 then a few years late he was the lead of torchwood
I was already nervous I’m excited sure but it does make me nervous that there approaching doctor who like this
Am thinking its a branding thing. The new serial number means fans unhappy can choose other services. The other services have all the costs of broadcasting those shows. This acts as a attractor too Disney Plus and new Dr Who... so it's almost like outsourcing and they may be likely getting the old shows too once the present deals are up.
Pre Video Comment. Just learned Yesterday that Tubi (in US and Canada?) is offering "All" (Complete Available to stream Stories) of Classic Who. (An Unearthly Child and the "Lost" Stories not yet Animated are current examples)
Glad for that... I recorded a Twitch Marathon several years ago (Via Roku and a DVD Recorder in 12 hour Blocks) which was mostly comprehensive of the Live Action (and Some Animated?) Stories.
That was a huge improvement over my scattered collection of VHS,DVD, and OTA VHS Recordings from the 80's and 90's. But being able to quickly select from a Menu/Channel of a specific Doctor or just watch it Live... Much Nicer.
Not sure if/where the alternative "Whoniverse" spinoff stuff that BBC Iplayer has will be in US (HBOMax? Most likely already does?)
But hoping we'll be offered the same perks as UK/BBC viewers sooner rather then later. I remember having to wait YEARS for "new" (Classic Who) episodes... When ever the local PBS Stations decided to air new Seasons/Episodes years after they'd aired. Then the several years to watch from the Beginning (Unearthly Child) 5 Nights a Week OTA. Oh the luxury of Instant VOD...
Chill... no spin offs haven been announced, let alone filmed! The earliest one would air is still probably two years away.
I don’t mind having spinoffs. I think I was the only person who liked _Class._ But the idea that _Doctor Who_ stories take place within a self-consistent fictional universe is at odds with sixty years of storytelling.
I actually really liked 'Class' and wished we got more of it. I think it suffered most from bad advertising and airing in the US and UK months apart (IIRC). I'm glad its getting a bit of a re-evaluation.
I agree. Too much of a good thing is a bad thing. Gluttony is dangerous.
Saw the pilot of Class. It was actually very good.
I wonder what’s the situation in Canada because since January the new who has not been available in Canada on any streaming service.
I love you, love this channel. Glad to have you back!
Most of the so far is iplayer based for all old Doctor Who related material in one place. We have Tales of the TARDIS a kind of spin off and RTD hasn't committed to any spin offs as yet. Currently in UK media an 8th Doctor Spin off is being heavily pushed. With Doctor Who only having 8 episodes plus a Christmas special means there is space in the schedule for a spin off or 2. In the meantime we have special editions of Classic Who either as Tales of The TARDIS or enhanced colourisations and new animations.
The UNIT spinoff was a rumour and has been disproven by RTD.