I have a number of ZWO cameras; primarily two (or three) for imaging. Something for a beginner to keep in mind: I have two telescopes, each has a reducer I may use. I did not buy the reducers to flatten my field I bought them so I would have more fields of view to use. In addition with the two cameras I can create a variety of FOVs. I keep a list on my wall with all my camera/telescope/reducer combination’s FOVs and image scales. Then based on the DSO I’m interested in I just check on my list which setup I want to use. There are pros and cons to all the setups I consider. So as one collects equipment I would suggest one consider how each piece would fit into the suite of tools they are building. The astronomy student really needs to come to understand image scale since all their gear depends on that. Finally I have near all ZWO gear cuz I use the AsiAir. The problem I’ve had with ZWO is I’ve had two warranty claims and received NO help from ZWO to address that so one has to question how good ZWO’s warranties are. Given that I just bought another ZWO product
Monochrome imaging is actually not that much harder than colour, but it certainly costs a lot more money. With a monochrome camera you combine the red, green, and blue filters into a single RGB image, which then gets processed just as you would with a colour/DSLR camera (luminance data gets added later to increase detail). The massive benefit to having a monochrome camera is the ability to "properly" do narrowband imaging without the inefficiency of the bayer matrix on the sensor.
Excellent initial video Peter! I’m looking forward to the next segment on filters since one can spend more on narrow band filters than on the camera. It would be interesting to see a direct comparison between ZWO, Astronomik etc. vs. Astrodon filters with the same wavelength cut on the ZWO1600MM. I haven’t found such an image comparison as yet. It was interesting that after talking with many experienced folks in this area they all suggested buying the better filters but these folks run big rigs and strive for the best image. There is a lot to this as you have pointed out and the potential for financial missteps is great. It is also worth pointing out that CloudyNights is an excellent place to find used Astro gear. I’ve purchased much of what I own through this site. Thanks for taking this on.
Loved your new video. ASI air has a trade in for the new model that has lotsa storage for pics & 12V power for ZWO cooler & other Items. Thank you for your videos!
Great video! Quick question. I hear a lot about how important it is to keep the sensor as cool as possible. Is there a video that explains what temperature is best, and how to determine the best sensor temperature?
I think "zoom" is misleading because you imply "magnification" and you mix it up with resolution. Pixel size will determine your psf (point-spread-function) and extended source resolution (i.e. how many pixels "make up" an object on the image, which is sampling). The sensor size will determine how much of your telescope's field of view (for a given focal length) you can catch on your sensor. So with both detectors astronomical objects will have the exact same spatial scale on the image (i.e. no magnification will be introduced). With the 183 you will be able to resolve more an object but see less of it, while with the 1600 you will resolve less but see more of it, however structures within the image will be of the same scale for both. In this context you will be able to "zoom into" the image of the 183 a bit more without seeing pixelation, but this will happen post processing and not on live-view with the camera. The only way to "zoom in" or "zoom out" is to change the focal length of your telescope, which happens either with a Barlow or a focal reducer. Assume an 8", 2000mm focal length telescope operating in an urban area (i.e. assuming average seeing of ~2"). Your OTA's theoretical resolution (i.e. diffraction limit) is ~0.6"/pixel, but your actual resolution is determined by the atmospheric seeing (i.e. seeing-limited case). The definition of under-sampling is sampling your psf with 10-15 pixels or ~1.5-2"/pixel) will not hurt you and it is actually preferable if you want to do psf photometry because you have more data-points (i.e. pixels) to work with to model (i.e. accurately describe) your psf. Ideally (for our example) you would need a very large detector to get the most out of your telescope's FoV (avoiding vignetting of course) with very small pixels in order to get adequate sampling, but this would be expensive. So pixel size is the most important factor when choosing a camera for your telescope, while detector size comes next. For a given budget, you must find a balance depending on the intended application. Obviously if the average seeing at the site you mostly observe is worse than 2" (you can determine that from previous data) you can get away with larger pixels.
Dr. Kazabubu brings up good points about the interplay between pixel size, focal length, array size and proper sampling. You've suggested that having a pixel scale of 1-2" per pixel is "ideal," but you've left out an important variable: your seeing. For most people, if their optics aperture is greater than 3", their point spread function (i.e. resolution) is limited by their atmospheric seeing (rather than diffraction). So some important considerations when deciding on what camera to marry to your telescope are your typical average seeing and your best seeing. If you want to design to your average seeing, and your average seeing is, say, 2", then you really don't want your pixel scale to be greater than 1"/pixel; somewhat less than 1"/pixel (e.g. 0.7") would be closer to ideal sampling. However, if you want to be able to take advantage of those rare nights where your seeing is quite good (e.g. 1"), then your pixel scale needs to be smaller still for ideal sampling.
Thank u sooooo much for makin short and informative videos !!!… I have learnt so much just by watching you !!! Can u please tell us where u got Bracket that holds the ASI Air? In your style can u PLEASE make a video on how to use the Star Adventurer in its other modes …Daytime use … Panning ,time lapse , Star trails and any other creative ways to use the tracker …. maybe a “What else can u do with a Star Adventurer besides tracking”??? I am new to both photography and Astro imaging …. But I have a lot of DSLR friends who are also interested in Imaging the nite sky … if they were to see what else can be done with it I’m sure they would pull the trigger and get one as well … Thank u from the Bronx NY. !
I'm literally scrolling thru and watching your videos and they each answer nearly all questions I had as a beginner in AP... Great work and keep it up, you've got yourself a subscriber :)
Writing this before I've even seen the entire video. All these videos are right up my alley as I'm taking the step from wide-lens (14mm) starscapes/milkyway photography into more detail astrophotography. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. :)
Hi Peter Great start to the course.Its so amazing how things have changed over the past few years with the CCD/CMOS cameras.I remember when an entry-level CCD camera was many many thousands of dollars now days things are very different and open for everybody.I also pick up tips with every vid you do. (wish your vids were around when I started!!!)Looking forward to the next one.
Really enjoy your videos...clear , relevant explanations..just purchased a ASI294MC ( along with the ASIAIR Pro and ASI120MM ) ..now just have to wait for them to get here 🙄👍
Excellent video, thanks. Hope to possibly go down the ZWO line in the next few weeks, so this helps me greatly. Never quite got my head around pixel and sensor sizes, but this old brain is starting to get it now with the info here.
Nice job Peter, I wish you made this two years ago when I was looking. I always pick up some good info though. I have the ASI1600 Mono and have been very happy with it. - Cheers Kurt
I would like to see one of these comparing Altair to ZWO as they have almost a 1-to-1 products like 224, 294, 183, 178 and 533 I think. Bintel also offers a great camera calculator. I have never used a DSLR and am a computer guy so running one of these may be easier. Biggest challenge is the decision of cooled or uncooled as the cooled versions can be $500 more expensive. I understand the differences between mono and color (pixels and RGGB, etc) but want a color at least initially as I don't want to spend the extra $400-$500 for the filter wheel and filters + the 4 times additional shots needed for mono. Basically, I am seeking a cooled color under $500... yeah, unicorn apparently even used so I find myself bidding on used color ASIs on fleabay
Just bought my 1st cam for my 1st mount and scope. Went with the zwo 294 mc. Got an edge 800 and a skywatcher eq-6r pro. None of these things were easy to find.....had to import it all.
Hi Peter, good video. Just one thing, I am new to the hobby. One thing I believe it is incorrect is that the sensor will zoom in or zoom out. Cameras don not zoom. The zoom is your telescope. The smaller chip covers less area of space. It gives you the illusion ot is zooming.
I agree and had the same thought as you exactly. It was a great video and extremely useful for a newbie like me, but I would have thought a larger sensor chip is always better and then just crop the image to get the kind of "zoom" Peter is referring to. BTW his website is a fantastic resource too if you haven't checked that out yet.
What you get in "zoom" is what you are going to loss in "optical resolution". So, if you consider a smaller sensor, you have also to consider better lenses. And the lens is the limiting factor... since there is a limit of what is actually in the market. Saying that, it might be easier to get a sharp enough long lens, than a 3-4x sharper mid-range zoom. On the other hand, with small sensors, you are only using the sweet-spot (extended center) of a lens image circle - you "automatically" don´t have to care for edge soft, vignetting, etc...
I went with the ZWO ASI533MC Pro, Simply because I couldn't find a decent DSLR that was astro-modded. Just wanted to stop using my 70D and get something with cooling. I can't wait to get it, of course everything is on backorder thanks to Covid and trade issues with China, not to mention the influx of new astrophotographers like me with a new hobby I can do without leaving the house! haha Also ordered the ASIAIR, should see it in about 4 months when I really start getting better at this stuff.
Hi Peter, absolutely awesome and useful video especially for someone like me who is just starting to seriously transition into astrophotography. Because I can't justify the cost and because of my projected limited use of a dedicated astro-camera, I'll only be using my DSLR. Knowing this, your video is very informative in helping establish the functional limitations of DSLR(and pixel size) vs focal length of my current, 5 inch Celestron Schmidt-Cass and my intended future purchase of a dedicated ED or APO triplet so I can make the right choice and use them for the best photographic result. My intent is to be able to employ my various lenses that range from an 8mm fisheye to a 150-600mm zoom, 5" Schmidt-Cass and future 60-80mm APO and I'm hoping to do this with one camera, if possible. In regards to a DSLR camera, I have a couple of observations/questions: 1. Have you noticed "shutter shock" impacting your images? DPReview reports it can be an issue with the D780, which I may transition to, and slow shutter speeds. They mention ways to mitigate it but just curious what your experience has been. 2. I've noticed that DSLRs seem to overly emphasize stars in their photos as compared to the dedicated cameras. In my limited experience, post processing can't fix it all. I primarily use LR but maybe it's time to use PS more. 3. Is it possible to replicate dedicated RGB filters on a DSLR by manually adjusting the white balance between a series of shots by pushing the color balance respectively to full red, green or blue? Thanks for any feedback. Keep up the great videos!
Great video Peter this clears up a lot about these sensors/cameras. I wonder if there is a way to adapt an old Canon FD mount lens or other manual lenses from the other manufactures?
Thanks for the video Peter. I'm a little confused as to your choice of the ZWO ASI1600MM given your discussion regarding arc seconds per pixel. I know that you're a fan of the Willams Optics Spacecat 51 (focal length 250mm) and given the formula it seems the ASI1600MM would give an arc sec per pixel of 3.1 whilst the ASI183MM would give an arc sec per pixel of 2.0. Am I missing something?
Over 90% of the Messier Catalog is smaller targets. Once you shoot the "big" targets everyone shoots like M42 and Andromeda, you'll struggle more with the 1600 to frame most other targets sufficiently with your scope. The ASI183 was a better choice for me given my 430mm focal length. I use a reducer to bring the bigger targets into frame. By the way, if you have the ASIair Pro, no need for the power adapter to run the camera cooling. You can run that power from the ASIair Pro.
Peter, would you recommend buying this camera: ZWO ASI183MM Pro Cooled Monochrome CMOS Astrophotography Camera? I am tight on the budget. Second question, is it good to use it with Tamron 100-600 lenses? not ready for the telescope yet. next year maybe.
Hey thanks for the video i learned a lot from it! The one thing I was hoping to hear you talk about it was the barlow/focal reducer topic by typing that in to the website you can typically zoom in or out as much as you need to in order to fit your telescope and get the shot that you want which after playing around with it for some of the cameras I was looking at. a .6 and a 2x typically gets all the smaller or larger frames I need for whatever object I wanna look at. i guess my question is does using a barlow or focal reducer give a worse image compared to what your getting natively?
I don't really have any experience with those, which is why I didn't mention them. I would think they could cause image problems, if you use a cheap one.
Well this has got me looking at the different Telescopes I want to buy now thank you! Love (Pixel size / F/Length) x 206 :-) I have a 8 inch SCT and looking for a APO and the difference this little equation done to me, I cant keep off Telescopius site LOL & makes all the difference!!! Great video Peter. Off to review APO now any recommendations 80 mm or 115 mm with a HEQ5 pro as the mount and Mirrorless Camara?
Altair hypercamera's have better value for the money imo. Also Altair has their best cameras with just regular heatsink fan cooling vs the protec cooling for hundreds of dollars less. A comparison video on fan vs tec would be great.
Hi Peter, Great video and very informative. I have been stuck at this point for some time now and maybe you can shed some light on the current issue I've been beating my head with as you would have the same issue with the setup you are referring to. The ASI1600MM Pro along with the space cat create an over sampling on the arc seconds (3.8/250*206=3.13). I was looking at the ASI533MC-P (more for the fact that it eliminates amp glow so I don't have to worry about it in post processing) and am running into the same issue with over sampling. I have been told that you don't want to exceed 2 so I am confused if its really that big of a deal or not. Any help on this would be much appreciated.
A rating of 3 isn't that big of a deal. Once you get to 4,5,6+ though, then you just won't have enough zoom to get a great photo in most cases. We'll find out for sure how things will look at 3 once I get some images in the coming weeks! Stay tuned!
Hi Peter, I noticed on the chart it begins at 300mm. Using a Redcat or Raptor all of the cameras except I believe one of them are above the 2.0 limit. Any suggestions for these small focal length scopes? Thanks and appreciate your expertise in these areas. Your videos are very helpful.
Fantastic video. So much awesome information. I'm wondering, have you ever tried to shoot in monochrome (b&w) on your DSLR and then do the filters as well. Or is DSLR b&w not really true monochrome as these cameras are? Thanks!
That wouldn't do much unfortunately. A monochrome sensor does not have a Bayer Array, that's what makes the difference. If you shoot in black and white on a DSLR, the light is still going through the Bayer Array and being split up into RGB.
Hello, You have updated your web page that's shown in the video and the link to determine Arc Size Per Pixel by camera type is no longer there...does that site still exist? I am trying to determine my Fuji XE3.
I just got a Celestron 8SE and have no experience. Is there a good all around camera you can recommend for someone with minimal knowledge but ready to learn?
My Telescope is Celestron Nexstar 8SE with Focal Length at 2032mm. Any non full frame ZWO will have a zoom in effect in the simulation. Is this normal?
Hey Peter, so when you're trying to calculate arc second ratings, do you take the 'actual' focal length of the lens or scope you're using or do you take into consideration crop factors? The 1600mm Pro is a 4/3 sensor, so would your 250mm scope be roughly 500mm? The Atik chart doesn't show anything below 300mm. Unless I'm missing something it seems like even in your own setup you would be out of the ideal range. Thanks in advance!
You always want to use the actual focal length, don't use any equations. Yeah, 250mm is really short for deep space astro but when paired with a small sensor, like the ASI 1600MM it's actually pretty good
@@PeterZelinka Unless I'm doing something wrong it seems like the better choice here would be the ASI183 for this if only looking at this aspect? At the Cat's 250mm focal length and a pixel size of 2.4um the 183 comes out to 1.97, just barely under that 2.0 "threshold". Meanwhile the 1600 comes out to be 3.13, which is well over that. In fact the 1600 needs to go to almost 400mm (392) before it gets to 1.99. When processing in DSS I know you can Drizzle it 2x (or even 3x) and stay above 1.0, however I don't know if that has the same impact as the scale when you initially captured the image. Now that said, I actually think you were still "right" (not sure there is a wrong tbh) to choose the 1600 and have produced some good images from it for sure. The 183 is (about) a full degree more cropped in comparatively, and there are a couple targets where it is very noticeable including some very popular ones like Andromeda, Heart/Soul, and Veil. Additionally the 183 is supposedly a little noisier and also needs longer exposure times than the 1600 due to this, however you'll get finer detail on it as a trade-off. I don't know if you've tried the 183 since this video was made, however I would be really interested to hear your thoughts on the above.
I'm learning with my 114mm Newtonian Reflector motorized telescope looking for the right ZWO Camera tight budget willing to purchase in the $300.00 range would you advise I would appreciate that here in south Texas night sky's
Hi One question, you say that you using redcat 250 F.L so why you say that the zwo 1600 is beter chois to you than 183, the 1600 gaves you 3.1 arc sec than the 183 gaves you right 2 arc sec🤔
QHY is definitely not budget cameras. - better reliability - better build quality - better chips - better systems - some people did have trouble but they were trying to use it - ZWO has far more problems with the software.
I think this headline is misleading. "Buying your first dedicated Astro camera"!. and then you focus where prices start at $800!! Any then you talk about what next camera you will upgrade to, and go full in. That mean you are not buying your first astro camera, but upgrading. Also I dont understand why you go head on direct into deep sky cameras. If you are a newbee, like me, let us start small and start learning how to use astro cameras and look at planets. 😞
Awesome explanation about the different fields of view (depending on the camera's pixel and sensor size). However; as a newbie to this hobby, I obviously want to observe as much as possible. Obviously observing the moon or Andromeda galaxy requires a telescope with much less focal length, than say the Planet Mars. So (for arguments sake), to maximize the versatility of all the equipment I'm planning on buying: Is it better to buy one telescope, and several different cameras with different size sensors and pixels, OR or one camera and two or three telescopes with different focal lengths..?
This is just what I’ve been looking for as I start my journey into Astrophotography - thanks for doing this.
I have a number of ZWO cameras; primarily two (or three) for imaging. Something for a beginner to keep in mind: I have two telescopes, each has a reducer I may use. I did not buy the reducers to flatten my field I bought them so I would have more fields of view to use. In addition with the two cameras I can create a variety of FOVs. I keep a list on my wall with all my camera/telescope/reducer combination’s FOVs and image scales. Then based on the DSO I’m interested in I just check on my list which setup I want to use. There are pros and cons to all the setups I consider. So as one collects equipment I would suggest one consider how each piece would fit into the suite of tools they are building. The astronomy student really needs to come to understand image scale since all their gear depends on that. Finally I have near all ZWO gear cuz I use the AsiAir. The problem I’ve had with ZWO is I’ve had two warranty claims and received NO help from ZWO to address that so one has to question how good ZWO’s warranties are. Given that I just bought another ZWO product
Monochrome imaging is actually not that much harder than colour, but it certainly costs a lot more money. With a monochrome camera you combine the red, green, and blue filters into a single RGB image, which then gets processed just as you would with a colour/DSLR camera (luminance data gets added later to increase detail). The massive benefit to having a monochrome camera is the ability to "properly" do narrowband imaging without the inefficiency of the bayer matrix on the sensor.
Excellent initial video Peter! I’m looking forward to the next segment on filters since one can spend more on narrow band filters than on the camera. It would be interesting to see a direct comparison between ZWO, Astronomik etc. vs. Astrodon filters with the same wavelength cut on the ZWO1600MM. I haven’t found such an image comparison as yet. It was interesting that after talking with many experienced folks in this area they all suggested buying the better filters but these folks run big rigs and strive for the best image. There is a lot to this as you have pointed out and the potential for financial missteps is great. It is also worth pointing out that CloudyNights is an excellent place to find used Astro gear. I’ve purchased much of what I own through this site. Thanks for taking this on.
I want to get a dedicated astrocam, but ive never done any photography with a dlsr or in general. Looking forward to it!
Thank you Peter your video they are always professional and useful.
Peter, GREAT video, I work out to define the dedicated camera and you provided me stronger points to consider for my final desition. Thanks.
Dude your channel is pure gold! How did it come that I didn't come across your channel earlier?
Loved your new video. ASI air has a trade in for the new model that has lotsa storage for pics & 12V power for ZWO cooler & other Items. Thank you for your videos!
Great video! Quick question. I hear a lot about how important it is to keep the sensor as cool as possible. Is there a video that explains what temperature is best, and how to determine the best sensor temperature?
By far the best explanation i found so far! Thank you very much!
I think "zoom" is misleading because you imply "magnification" and you mix it up with resolution. Pixel size will determine your psf (point-spread-function) and extended source resolution (i.e. how many pixels "make up" an object on the image, which is sampling). The sensor size will determine how much of your telescope's field of view (for a given focal length) you can catch on your sensor. So with both detectors astronomical objects will have the exact same spatial scale on the image (i.e. no magnification will be introduced). With the 183 you will be able to resolve more an object but see less of it, while with the 1600 you will resolve less but see more of it, however structures within the image will be of the same scale for both. In this context you will be able to "zoom into" the image of the 183 a bit more without seeing pixelation, but this will happen post processing and not on live-view with the camera. The only way to "zoom in" or "zoom out" is to change the focal length of your telescope, which happens either with a Barlow or a focal reducer. Assume an 8", 2000mm focal length telescope operating in an urban area (i.e. assuming average seeing of ~2"). Your OTA's theoretical resolution (i.e. diffraction limit) is ~0.6"/pixel, but your actual resolution is determined by the atmospheric seeing (i.e. seeing-limited case). The definition of under-sampling is sampling your psf with 10-15 pixels or ~1.5-2"/pixel) will not hurt you and it is actually preferable if you want to do psf photometry because you have more data-points (i.e. pixels) to work with to model (i.e. accurately describe) your psf. Ideally (for our example) you would need a very large detector to get the most out of your telescope's FoV (avoiding vignetting of course) with very small pixels in order to get adequate sampling, but this would be expensive. So pixel size is the most important factor when choosing a camera for your telescope, while detector size comes next. For a given budget, you must find a balance depending on the intended application. Obviously if the average seeing at the site you mostly observe is worse than 2" (you can determine that from previous data) you can get away with larger pixels.
Dr. Kazabubu brings up good points about the interplay between pixel size, focal length, array size and proper sampling. You've suggested that having a pixel scale of 1-2" per pixel is "ideal," but you've left out an important variable: your seeing. For most people, if their optics aperture is greater than 3", their point spread function (i.e. resolution) is limited by their atmospheric seeing (rather than diffraction). So some important considerations when deciding on what camera to marry to your telescope are your typical average seeing and your best seeing. If you want to design to your average seeing, and your average seeing is, say, 2", then you really don't want your pixel scale to be greater than 1"/pixel; somewhat less than 1"/pixel (e.g. 0.7") would be closer to ideal sampling. However, if you want to be able to take advantage of those rare nights where your seeing is quite good (e.g. 1"), then your pixel scale needs to be smaller still for ideal sampling.
@@robmatson1575 I mentioned that you are seeing limited....in fact all my calculations are based on the fact that you are seeing limited...
Thank u sooooo much for makin short and informative videos !!!… I have learnt so much just by watching you !!!
Can u please tell us where u got Bracket that holds the ASI Air?
In your style can u PLEASE make a video on how to use the Star Adventurer in its other modes …Daytime use … Panning ,time lapse , Star trails and any other creative ways to use the tracker …. maybe a “What else can u do with a Star Adventurer besides tracking”???
I am new to both photography and Astro imaging …. But I have a lot of DSLR friends who are also interested in Imaging the nite sky … if they were to see what else can be done with it I’m sure they would pull the trigger and get one as well … Thank u from the Bronx NY. !
I'm literally scrolling thru and watching your videos and they each answer nearly all questions I had as a beginner in AP... Great work and keep it up, you've got yourself a subscriber :)
Writing this before I've even seen the entire video. All these videos are right up my alley as I'm taking the step from wide-lens (14mm) starscapes/milkyway photography into more detail astrophotography. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. :)
Peter, you have the best content and presentations. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and saving us all a lot of time and frustration. New subscriber.
Hi Peter
Great start to the course.Its so amazing how things have changed over the past few years with the CCD/CMOS cameras.I remember when an entry-level CCD camera was many many thousands of dollars now days things are very different and open for everybody.I also pick up tips with every vid you do. (wish your vids were around when I started!!!)Looking forward to the next one.
I'm sorry I listened to him. But fortunately was able to sell his POS suggestions.
@@adventureswithfrodo2721 Sorry it didnt work for you what was the problem
Really enjoy your videos...clear , relevant explanations..just purchased a ASI294MC ( along with the ASIAIR Pro and ASI120MM ) ..now just have to wait for them to get here 🙄👍
Exactly what I was looking for and very well presented!
Excellent video, thanks. Hope to possibly go down the ZWO line in the next few weeks, so this helps me greatly. Never quite got my head around pixel and sensor sizes, but this old brain is starting to get it now with the info here.
Great video!. Did you use a powerbank 12V-3A to power the camera?
Nice job Peter, I wish you made this two years ago when I was looking. I always pick up some good info though. I have the ASI1600 Mono and have been very happy with it. - Cheers Kurt
The right video at The right Time (for me). Informative and very well structured. A pleasure to listen to. 👍
I would like to see one of these comparing Altair to ZWO as they have almost a 1-to-1 products like 224, 294, 183, 178 and 533 I think. Bintel also offers a great camera calculator. I have never used a DSLR and am a computer guy so running one of these may be easier. Biggest challenge is the decision of cooled or uncooled as the cooled versions can be $500 more expensive. I understand the differences between mono and color (pixels and RGGB, etc) but want a color at least initially as I don't want to spend the extra $400-$500 for the filter wheel and filters + the 4 times additional shots needed for mono. Basically, I am seeking a cooled color under $500... yeah, unicorn apparently even used so I find myself bidding on used color ASIs on fleabay
Thanks Peter. Very educative
Just bought my 1st cam for my 1st mount and scope. Went with the zwo 294 mc. Got an edge 800 and a skywatcher eq-6r pro. None of these things were easy to find.....had to import it all.
Very informative and easy to follow for all us newbies, thank you!
Hi Peter, good video. Just one thing, I am new to the hobby. One thing I believe it is incorrect is that the sensor will zoom in or zoom out. Cameras don not zoom. The zoom is your telescope. The smaller chip covers less area of space. It gives you the illusion ot is zooming.
I agree and had the same thought as you exactly. It was a great video and extremely useful for a newbie like me, but I would have thought a larger sensor chip is always better and then just crop the image to get the kind of "zoom" Peter is referring to. BTW his website is a fantastic resource too if you haven't checked that out yet.
What you get in "zoom" is what you are going to loss in "optical resolution". So, if you consider a smaller sensor, you have also to consider better lenses. And the lens is the limiting factor... since there is a limit of what is actually in the market. Saying that, it might be easier to get a sharp enough long lens, than a 3-4x sharper mid-range zoom. On the other hand, with small sensors, you are only using the sweet-spot (extended center) of a lens image circle - you "automatically" don´t have to care for edge soft, vignetting, etc...
I went with the ZWO ASI533MC Pro, Simply because I couldn't find a decent DSLR that was astro-modded. Just wanted to stop using my 70D and get something with cooling. I can't wait to get it, of course everything is on backorder thanks to Covid and trade issues with China, not to mention the influx of new astrophotographers like me with a new hobby I can do without leaving the house! haha Also ordered the ASIAIR, should see it in about 4 months when I really start getting better at this stuff.
Hi Peter, absolutely awesome and useful video especially for someone like me who is just starting to seriously transition into astrophotography. Because I can't justify the cost and because of my projected limited use of a dedicated astro-camera, I'll only be using my DSLR. Knowing this, your video is very informative in helping establish the functional limitations of DSLR(and pixel size) vs focal length of my current, 5 inch Celestron Schmidt-Cass and my intended future purchase of a dedicated ED or APO triplet so I can make the right choice and use them for the best photographic result. My intent is to be able to employ my various lenses that range from an 8mm fisheye to a 150-600mm zoom, 5" Schmidt-Cass and future 60-80mm APO and I'm hoping to do this with one camera, if possible.
In regards to a DSLR camera, I have a couple of observations/questions:
1. Have you noticed "shutter shock" impacting your images? DPReview reports it can be an issue with the D780, which I may transition to, and slow shutter speeds. They mention ways to mitigate it but just curious what your experience has been.
2. I've noticed that DSLRs seem to overly emphasize stars in their photos as compared to the dedicated cameras. In my limited experience, post processing can't fix it all. I primarily use LR but maybe it's time to use PS more.
3. Is it possible to replicate dedicated RGB filters on a DSLR by manually adjusting the white balance between a series of shots by pushing the color balance respectively to full red, green or blue?
Thanks for any feedback. Keep up the great videos!
Great info! Thank you so much! Looking forward to the next video!
Great video Peter this clears up a lot about these sensors/cameras. I wonder if there is a way to adapt an old Canon FD mount lens or other manual lenses from the other manufactures?
Thanks for the video Peter. I'm a little confused as to your choice of the ZWO ASI1600MM given your discussion regarding arc seconds per pixel. I know that you're a fan of the Willams Optics Spacecat 51 (focal length 250mm) and given the formula it seems the ASI1600MM would give an arc sec per pixel of 3.1 whilst the ASI183MM would give an arc sec per pixel of 2.0. Am I missing something?
Yes i notic this to, why he say that 1600 is better for him then 183 if he use redcat 250mm🤔
Over 90% of the Messier Catalog is smaller targets. Once you shoot the "big" targets everyone shoots like M42 and Andromeda, you'll struggle more with the 1600 to frame most other targets sufficiently with your scope. The ASI183 was a better choice for me given my 430mm focal length. I use a reducer to bring the bigger targets into frame. By the way, if you have the ASIair Pro, no need for the power adapter to run the camera cooling. You can run that power from the ASIair Pro.
id say the stellarium software provides a better zoom simulation for sensors and relescope combinations
Thank you for taking the time to make this video.
I really enjoy your videos! You’re teaching me a lot. Keep it going.
As always very good information. Very well done Peter! Thanks
Thanks, Peter, I have a much better understanding the camera specs now
Hi Peter. Great video. Very clear with lot of information. Thank you.
Peter, would you recommend buying this camera: ZWO ASI183MM Pro Cooled Monochrome CMOS Astrophotography Camera? I am tight on the budget. Second question, is it good to use it with Tamron 100-600 lenses? not ready for the telescope yet. next year maybe.
i Love all your video... thanks for your good work.
Hey thanks for the video i learned a lot from it! The one thing I was hoping to hear you talk about it was the barlow/focal reducer topic by typing that in to the website you can typically zoom in or out as much as you need to in order to fit your telescope and get the shot that you want which after playing around with it for some of the cameras I was looking at. a .6 and a 2x typically gets all the smaller or larger frames I need for whatever object I wanna look at. i guess my question is does using a barlow or focal reducer give a worse image compared to what your getting natively?
I don't really have any experience with those, which is why I didn't mention them. I would think they could cause image problems, if you use a cheap one.
When I see all those wonderful images shot with DSLRs I really don't want to spend more money (a lot more actually!).
Neither do i.... But i never do anything by half... which is my problem
Well this has got me looking at the different Telescopes I want to buy now thank you! Love (Pixel size / F/Length) x 206 :-) I have a 8 inch SCT and looking for a APO and the difference this little equation done to me, I cant keep off Telescopius site LOL & makes all the difference!!! Great video Peter. Off to review APO now any recommendations 80 mm or 115 mm with a HEQ5 pro as the mount and Mirrorless Camara?
Altair hypercamera's have better value for the money imo. Also Altair has their best cameras with just regular heatsink fan cooling vs the protec cooling for hundreds of dollars less. A comparison video on fan vs tec would be great.
I went with the 183 MC pro cooled camera due not having the time to really get into mono.
Hi Peter,
Great video and very informative. I have been stuck at this point for some time now and maybe you can shed some light on the current issue I've been beating my head with as you would have the same issue with the setup you are referring to.
The ASI1600MM Pro along with the space cat create an over sampling on the arc seconds (3.8/250*206=3.13). I was looking at the ASI533MC-P (more for the fact that it eliminates amp glow so I don't have to worry about it in post processing) and am running into the same issue with over sampling. I have been told that you don't want to exceed 2 so I am confused if its really that big of a deal or not. Any help on this would be much appreciated.
A rating of 3 isn't that big of a deal. Once you get to 4,5,6+ though, then you just won't have enough zoom to get a great photo in most cases.
We'll find out for sure how things will look at 3 once I get some images in the coming weeks! Stay tuned!
Hi Peter, I noticed on the chart it begins at 300mm. Using a Redcat or Raptor all of the cameras except I believe one of them are above the 2.0 limit. Any suggestions for these small focal length scopes? Thanks and appreciate your expertise in these areas. Your videos are very helpful.
Thank you so much for doing this... much appreciated 👍🏻
Fantastic video. So much awesome information. I'm wondering, have you ever tried to shoot in monochrome (b&w) on your DSLR and then do the filters as well. Or is DSLR b&w not really true monochrome as these cameras are? Thanks!
That wouldn't do much unfortunately. A monochrome sensor does not have a Bayer Array, that's what makes the difference. If you shoot in black and white on a DSLR, the light is still going through the Bayer Array and being split up into RGB.
I modified my t3 for astrophotography 😍.
This video was missing, thank you very much. I learned a lot 👍
Hello,
You have updated your web page that's shown in the video and the link to determine Arc Size Per Pixel by camera type is no longer there...does that site still exist? I am trying to determine my Fuji XE3.
Nice video and very informative for Beginners.. :)
I just got a Celestron 8SE and have no experience. Is there a good all around camera you can recommend for someone with minimal knowledge but ready to learn?
My Telescope is Celestron Nexstar 8SE with Focal Length at 2032mm. Any non full frame ZWO will have a zoom in effect in the simulation. Is this normal?
What sensor size is a good match for the Red Cat 51? APS-c? Micro 4/3?
I also will get spacecat 51 and my number for pixel size is 3.54 with my canon eos 60d Is it going to be a big problem?
Great 👍 tutorial !
Hey Peter, so when you're trying to calculate arc second ratings, do you take the 'actual' focal length of the lens or scope you're using or do you take into consideration crop factors? The 1600mm Pro is a 4/3 sensor, so would your 250mm scope be roughly 500mm? The Atik chart doesn't show anything below 300mm. Unless I'm missing something it seems like even in your own setup you would be out of the ideal range. Thanks in advance!
You always want to use the actual focal length, don't use any equations.
Yeah, 250mm is really short for deep space astro but when paired with a small sensor, like the ASI 1600MM it's actually pretty good
@@PeterZelinka Awesome! Thanks for the response and all the great content Peter
@@PeterZelinka Unless I'm doing something wrong it seems like the better choice here would be the ASI183 for this if only looking at this aspect? At the Cat's 250mm focal length and a pixel size of 2.4um the 183 comes out to 1.97, just barely under that 2.0 "threshold". Meanwhile the 1600 comes out to be 3.13, which is well over that. In fact the 1600 needs to go to almost 400mm (392) before it gets to 1.99. When processing in DSS I know you can Drizzle it 2x (or even 3x) and stay above 1.0, however I don't know if that has the same impact as the scale when you initially captured the image.
Now that said, I actually think you were still "right" (not sure there is a wrong tbh) to choose the 1600 and have produced some good images from it for sure. The 183 is (about) a full degree more cropped in comparatively, and there are a couple targets where it is very noticeable including some very popular ones like Andromeda, Heart/Soul, and Veil. Additionally the 183 is supposedly a little noisier and also needs longer exposure times than the 1600 due to this, however you'll get finer detail on it as a trade-off.
I don't know if you've tried the 183 since this video was made, however I would be really interested to hear your thoughts on the above.
I'm curious on this too. As I'm currently debating between the 1600 and 183.
Hi Peter, Can I translate your blog post about this into Turkish? Of course mentioning your name and page etc.
I'm learning with my 114mm Newtonian Reflector motorized telescope looking for the right ZWO Camera tight budget willing to purchase in the $300.00 range would you advise I would appreciate that here in south Texas night sky's
Thank you for your video. Should the setting for the focal length be 51mm for the red cat on the telescope simulator? It seems too big.
51mm is the lens diameter, the focal length is 250mm
Hi
One question, you say that you using redcat 250 F.L so why you say that the zwo 1600 is beter chois to you than 183, the 1600 gaves you 3.1 arc sec than the 183 gaves you right 2 arc sec🤔
hi can i use these on earth like i want to livestream to youtube with a pc of stuff like a few miles away?
Lap top recomendation ?
Excelente vídeo.
Qué significa que el QE sea TBD?
Saludos.
Thoughts on CMOS vs. CCD?
Hanzhen harmonicc drive gear ,
robot arm joint ,
strain wave reducer, over 30 years experience
I'm guessing monochrome dedicated cameras have better light pollution filters than color cameras?
Does anyone own the ASI385MC?? Any feedback on that.
Do you need a telescope to use any of these cameras?
highly helpful
Thanks.
QHY is definitely not budget cameras.
- better reliability
- better build quality
- better chips
- better systems
- some people did have trouble but they were trying to use it
- ZWO has far more problems with the software.
Bell *clicked*
полезное видео!
Why mono-chrome vs Color?
no the very first thing i noticed was the price
Are Pixel size and Pixel pitch the same thing?
Pretty much, yeah
@@PeterZelinka Thanks. This video was very helpful.
nahhh...i'll go with hubble's photos!!! lol
svBony rules the night sky, so there.
9:13 did he really just say "a whole nother" ?!
I think this headline is misleading. "Buying your first dedicated Astro camera"!. and then you focus where prices start at $800!! Any then you talk about what next camera you will upgrade to, and go full in. That mean you are not buying your first astro camera, but upgrading. Also I dont understand why you go head on direct into deep sky cameras. If you are a newbee, like me, let us start small and start learning how to use astro cameras and look at planets. 😞
qhy? N-O!
Братан привет из России
Awesome explanation about the different fields of view (depending on the camera's pixel and sensor size).
However; as a newbie to this hobby, I obviously want to observe as much as possible. Obviously observing the moon or Andromeda galaxy requires a telescope with much less focal length, than say the Planet Mars.
So (for arguments sake), to maximize the versatility of all the equipment I'm planning on buying: Is it better to buy one telescope, and several different cameras with different size sensors and pixels, OR or one camera and two or three telescopes with different focal lengths..?