Pledge of Allegiance - USA - Thoughts
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- Опубликовано: 19 фев 2023
- We discuss the history, relevance, and our feelings on the US Pledge of Allegiance - as Americans living in Denmark.
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So, in a sense.. Maya already had a critical and analyzing mind, like a Dane, even before moving to Denmark.
It's not *a Danish exclusive thing to be critical or analyse ❤ It's either taught or learned, told or discovered.
@@mariaf.1732 True.
I'm sorry to say this but to many Europeans, a pledge of allegiance to a flag is a somewhat sensitive thing for historic reasons. In Nazi Germany, school children were forced to pledge allegiance to Adolf Hitler. For this reason, most Europeans will consider any need to pledge any kind of allegiance to a flag or anything else for that matter a very uncomfortable thing.
If you have been brought up with the right values and have been taught the facts of history, there should be no need to pledge any kind of loyalty to your country.
It should probably be noted that a pledge and/or an oath is worthless in America or in any other nation if there is no kind of accountability for breaking that pledge and/or oath.
A good example of this is actually January 6th 2021 in America.
We simply used to assemble at the first morning of the school year singing the national anthem and that was it. You don't find Danish flags in the classrooms of Danish schools. It is simply not considered necessary. It is expected from you as a Danish born citizen that you are loyal to the Danish constitution, the law and Denmark no matter your skin color or religious beliefs.
Realistically, there is no way to ensure a person is loyal to a country, flag and constitution whether the person pledges to be so or not so to most Danes, it would be an unnecessary exercise.
It is a little bit the same principle with religion. You don't have to go to church to be a faithful Christian.
The US is one big propaganda machine to insure people don't make civ war again.
Man is really trying to compare NAZI GERMANY to the UNITED STATES LMAOOOOOOOOOOO
As a diplomatic brat, I have been enrolled in US schools, UK schools, French schools and Euro schools
Only the US schools had the patriotic undertone and a tendency to push the US politics of the day...
fx: going to a US school during the 6-day war in 1967, thát was excruciating!
All the Marines' kids hoorah-ing and doing the U S A! chant
- unbearable to say the least! 😱
The school did exempt all non-US citizens from saying the pledge; which was about 70% of the students
- but I have always thought it was an odd practice 🤔
hello from Hundested 🌸
Way to go, Maya 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
The bad thing in my opinion is that kids are doing it in school, it is a kind of indoctrination. I don't like that. I think children should learn to be critical about the state as well.
What Maya did as a kid is actually just showing her opinion or showing she did not know what the pledge meant in details. Sitting silent, is off course not interrupting. Well done Maya.
A really good video.
P.S.
You can take it up on live stream again, np.
Yes, as I see it repeating it every day is only usefull for one of two things:
1-brainwashing/indoctrination
2-getting people to not take pledges seriously
Not sure wich of those US Schools is trying to achive, none seems good but I guess the 2nd can be usefull to succed in business and politics.
The same used to happen in Denmark in most schools, it was just Christian indoctrination - during my early school time there was morning prayer.
@@KurtFrederiksen Jeg nævnte det bare, klap lige hesten.
Why bring that up now? So we don't forget what happened. As a warning for future generations. We learn by mistakes, not least. But we must also learn from history, or else new generations are doomed to learn by repeating past mistakes.
When I was an exchange student in WV. I mistakenly thought it was polite of me not to actually say the pledge out loud as I was and am not a citizen, out of respect I stood up. After the first week of school, I was called into the principal's office and I was told that I would be kicked out if I didn't fully participate. Of course, I corrected my obvious shameful conduct. I was mortified, embarrassed. He was not accepting of my reasoning. At last when I left his office I heard him mumble "Those damn communists".
That is very unfortunate, but thanks for sharing.
There's no way that was legal.
I was an exchange student in upstate NY (18/19) and was luckily never forced like you were. I thought, like you, that it would be rude for me to join the pledge because it would be to repeat something I actually didn’t fully stand for. I joined in sometimes, but was never required to. I had to stand with my hand on my heart though, and depending on the day of the week, my teacher would really stare at me if I didn’t repeat the pledge (we had different classes in the morning different days)
The final comment from him makes it seem like some kind of comedy sketch.
Forcing someone to pledge allegiance to a flag (and a country) that isn't yours is ... disturbing to say the least and hopefully illegal.
for me it just sounds like something you would do in a dark dictatorship like north Korea or something like that
Strangely enough, you've moved from a country, where state and church is not connected, but you can barely be elected to any kind of governing seat if you're an atheist, to a country where state and church are connected, but no one cares about religion.
In my 54 years, I don't remember ever hearing a Danish government elected talk about religion, other if it was related to change of laws. No one ever express their religious views here.
As far as I know, USA is the western country where the highest numbers of the population believes in God and the bible.
have you forgotten "kristeligt folkeparti" ?
@@GarmrsBarking and since when were they in politics?
@@weybye91 1970-2003
@@GarmrsBarking
Everybody else has forgotten them.
I don't think I have ever pledged to anything. The closest I have come, was having to say "I do" at the American embassy once to get a green card. That felt weird. Requiring people wanting to become Danish to pledge something also is weird. Our maybe silly is a better word.
But ultimately I don't think it is important. It's just a little piece of inconsequential silliness.
I would call it indoctrination. When I watch videos from Americans talking about the world surrounding America, it's astounding how little Americans know about the world outside America.
Thank you for an in-depth and nuanced video
Loved hearing your points of view and more about the how and why and history of this topic, especially the hand over the heart thing, because it has confounded me for a long time.
So thanks for that! And btw Josh your Danish is coming along great 👌🏻
You mentioned the DAR, that chocked me because I have read a bit about “the lost cause” and the UDC. You than mentioned you grew up in Tennessee, and that made me think about how the history of the South and slavery was retold by the losing side after the war.
As a history nerd, I would very much like it if you could make a video about your experiences as a child growing up in the South.
For everybody who wants to take a look, this shows how they did it before: Truthstream Media: Obedience Training (at 3:50)
Thank you for the discussion. Again a very insightful video!🌸
for me it's swearing allegiance to. my country strange because it's so natural that I don't need to swear anything, yes, we have Danish falgs everywhere, birthdays, town parties, regardless of what we see and do, yes, Dannebro must be at the top of the falgstang, therefore it's strangely artificial and weak loyalty , for me as a patriotic Dane,
Yes, loyalty to my country, Denmark, is as natural as breathing. we are raised with this culture,
But we have also had 1000 years of interrupted culture, and are still a very homogeneous country, with around 90% Danes, and are a small country, a small tribe. where if you meet a Dane abroad, yes, where are you from, well I'm from here and from here do you know someone named ..... and the probability that you know someone who knows you is unimaginably great, the difference is that the Danes are an originally Germanic people, and America is an artificially created nation. consisting of many people, including Danes who moved to the USA, who are all proud of their cultural origins,
American culture is created as the cocktail of all. the cultures of the people who are part of the American nation, and therefore it has been necessary to swear allegiance, while it seems artificial to me as a Dane.
This just state the fact that you're good parents and are very close to being danes. In Denmark I think we don't tell our kids who to vote for, but just let our children influence on good behaviour and common sence. What particular party the kids are voting for, we just trust their judgement even though it's not the same as ours and hope they'll come by to their sences if they're opposite of what we vote.
Very good discussion - loved it
Very nice with a longer video.
This was a good video and I think the length was definitely justified.
The pledge of allegiance is a strange concept to me but I'm probably also biased on the subject from documentaries where it is preceeded by kids having to watch commercials and stuff at the beginning of the day, to fund the school, which enforces the indoctrination vibe a bit. I have no idea how common that actually is though.
Most countries have some sort of singing of the national anthem in school on certain occasions, so it's not like a sense of patriotism is absent everywhere else.
I wonder if the pledge will start to disappear over time if more and more people question it and then pass that sentiment on to their children. I think that has slowly happened to religion in Denmark for instance.
Interesting discussion and it's always nice to hear different view points on a subject. It's easy to condemn immigration policies in the US for instance but our own policies are not much better. I hear a lot of immigrants talk about this fear of being thrown out if the slightest thing goes wrong, which must be extremely stressful and not super welcoming.
There is no such verbal pledge in Denmark, not even when being granted citizenship. You have to attend a ceremony, where you sign a document and shake the mayor’s hand, but that is it.
Good video 😉👍
In all of the movie-/TV-plots set in American schools we never see the pledging going on… It’s just a few years ago I realized the pledge isn’t a historic relic but something happening today in the USA. Consider sometime making a video on the stereotypical American school shown in movies/TV - what is actual and what is more “cartoon” or satire?
That is an interesting idea. Most people outside the US learn through tv and movies. And that isn’t super accurate as it’s fiction :).
Thank you for an interesting video. 🙏🏻 I’ve always thought that the pledge of allegiance sounded “culty”, but after seeing your video I understand and appreciate where it came from. A divided country who needed something to remind themselves, that ‘we are one now, and we stand together’, is totally understandable. 👍🏻 But of course someone had to take it and run with it… 🤷🏻♀️🙄😁 Just like Dansk Folkeparti has taken the danish flag hostage. 🤷🏻♀️😁 The most important thing I was ever taught was not to be afraid to change my mind or admit when I’m wrong. And allow others to do the same. That is true freedom to me. 🤗👍🏻
Nice video.
In the 60's going to school in Denmark, we recited 'Fadervor' (The lord's prayer in English) in the schoolyard before we entered the classrooms. The flag would be raised in the schoolyard, and we sang the national anthem (Der er et Yndigt Land). This 'ritual' went away in the early 70's. I personally think it was because of Denmark joining the Common Market...
I agree with Maya that the divisive climate here in the States has escalated a lot. I noticed it first when Obama was elected President. It made me realize that USA is a very big country. One significant difference from Denmark.
My personal opinion is, that a large part of the divisiveness stems from organized religions and their influence on their congregations. Fundamentalism is the root of evil, no matter what faith it is.
Interesting
det er virkelig fedt. jo mere man høre om hvad i tinger jo mere elsker jeg jer. i er nogle dejlige menesker
This video is just awsome! Please do more debates. And put an clock in front of you to silently keep the time😉
17:34 The way both of them just snort at your statement Josh.. LOL 😂
I just realised that blackcurrant has been banned in the US since the start of the 19th century, something that's completely normal and taken for granted by many danes and europeans in general. Have you taste tested blackcurrant? I'd love to hear your point of view.
As mi english isn' tthat god I have used translate following text!
I think you are good at being integrated here in Denmark, - and now with your political perception of democracy OUTSIDE the United States - because as you say that it is a heavy system - to have some more opportunities to make a choice where you yourself are political, - nice understanding from other of your travels earlier in life. And as it is now - probably - need to stay so that Maja can finish her education and I guess that you will stay a little longer than that, because you yourself have work here, on your education, and I have great respect for that, there are many who can learn something, so from, So stay as long as you can do it, it's so super good.
Wyoming, Vermont and Hawaii that is an odd collection. All is often among a few states that do things a bit different in some areas, but Hawaii it is normaly among a few highly Democratic states that stick-out from the rest and Wymoing normaly among a few highly Republican states that stick-out from the rest so that those two have the same rules in contrast to the majority is odd. That Maine is an exception is more a rule than an exception so no real suprise there.
Sorry it was Vermont not Maine, but both of them is kind of a law unto themselves.
love u all
We say it at our TOPS meetings every week.🇺🇸
Allegiance to geographic location is such a ridiculous concept. Ed Abbey had the right idea "My loyalties will not be bound by national borders, or confined in time by one nation's history, or limited in the spiritual dimension by one language and culture. I pledge my allegiance to the damned human race, and my everlasting love to the green hills of Earth, and my intimations of glory to the singing stars, to the very end of space and time.” The notion of nations has outlived any usefulness it may have ever possessed. Time to evolve our definition of "Us" beyond arbitrary and imaginary lines.
You go Girl.. Maya... Like a real Dane. 🇩🇰
Very interesting, and really cool Maya was brave enough to standup for her opinion.
As others have said, many Europeans feel uncomfortable about a pledge of allegiance because it feels very nationalistic, and we've seen the worst of that in the 40s.
Part of the issue is also that it's done in schools. Kids that are still finding their individuality and can be more susceptible to social pressure. There are stories of how, even though you legally don't have to say it, you'll be punished if you don't. That's scary
It's important to be able to criticize your own country and stand up for certain values. Also a huge respect to Maya for doing that.
It's a bit similar with political parties. I feel it's very important to be able to criticize even those you voted for, if they did something worth criticizing. That's an important aspect of a functioning democracy
I know you guys usually avoid the political stuff, but I do things become a bit more interesting when your opinions starts to show.
I think I found the pledge more fascinating than anything... ofc I found it weird having to say it every day at school but that was more because it's nothing I was used to.
The thing that puzzled me was the fact the exchange students had to do it. In the beginning it was ok for us to just rise and stand there but it was expected that we learn it and join in.
I was a exchange student in the 80’s in Washington state and was exempt from the pledge.
But it’s not healthy for a country to have traditions like that.
11:41 JEEZ, let mom talk!
For anyone (myself included) who didn't know Denmark had an Oath of Allegience (Troskabserkendelsen) here it is
*"Jeg lover troskab og loyalitet over for Danmark og det danske samfund og erklærer at ville overholde dansk lovgivning og respektere grundlæggende danske retsprincipper"*
English: "I pledge allegiance and loyalty to Denmark and the Danish society and declare that I will comply with Danish legislation and respect basic Danish legal principles"
Sounds better than to a flag an the under God thing.
But when and how was it used?
What I like the most about the US is the strong protection of free speech. But an important part of free speech is that no speech should ever be compelled. Just like everybody is free to speak like they want, nobody have to say anything they do not want to say. When it comes to free speech Denmark could learn a lot from the US.
The pledge of allegiance is kinda like the law of jante in the sense that the idea is to bring people together. "Our allegiance is to the flag" , ie. the group of people under one flag and "one is not above the other" , hence we are of the same group.
The way the ideologies are used can be both for good and bad
First off: @Maya: respect!
Second: I think that the reason that such a pledge is viewed with suspicion in democracies outside the US, is that there is a fine line between pledging (almost like taking an oath) allegiance every day and *not* being allowed to criticize. The US right - especially the religious right - is very quick to label you as unpatriotic, if you do not agree with status quo. This is most obvious when it comes to the constitution: The US constitution has almost taken on the same status as the Bible has for religious people: Disagreeing with it is instantly branded as *unpatriotic* or even treasonous. This is of course ignoring the fact that the constitution has actually been amended a number of times.
I also have issues with using "patriotic" as the reason why it is not unconstitutional to require a daily pledge in school. "Patriotic" means "having or expressing devotion to and vigorous support for one's country". One should *not* be required to display "vigorous support" or even devotion to one's country. You should only be required abide by the laws (including the constitution), not love it. If a society is truly democratic it will accept that a number of citizens may not be proud of the countrys actions and/or history. A true democracy *must* allow for its citizens to want to change things, even the constitution, without being labelled as traitors.
Maya keeps impressing me
Way to go maya
As a Dane who probably would find it weird and cultish, I think maybe we Dane’s shouldn’t be so quick to judge something, we truly don’t understand and can’t relate to. ❤
This was interesting, a sort real look into US culture.
From what I understand if you granted Danish citizenship you'll have to sign a document that you'll adhere to Danish values and laws, not that you'll have to pledge something to the Danish flag or similar - and I am sure there won't be anything about God either.
As a native Dane I also can not recall ever being asked to pledge to our flag. As with so many things here I guess it is sort of expected that of course you'll be fine with constitution and laws in general, so need to ask people to confirm it.
I am highly opposed to having mandatory pledges like that. Trust is something that comes with time, based on your actions. It is not the result of a pledge. I also feel really bad about forcing somebody to state something they may not agree to, in some way or another. What happened to freedom? Even worse when religion is mixed in, not least in the case of the USA. Norway (where I live) does not require immigrants to take a pledge, and a large majority want to keep it that way. Still, there is a pledge for those who want that kind of ceremony. I am surprised at how uncontroversial that short pledge is, because all you're basically saying is that you're going to be a good citizen and decent human being.
Maya the rebel,, haha. And you guys made me google,,,,,,,/again). Thanks for the video.
Do you have to swear to the Bible, in court, even if you're not Christian, in the US?
No, you have to swear on something with meaning to you. Old teastament is often just for people of Jewish belife for example.
I c
@@cynic7049 A pride flag? :D
@@tineditmarunnerup9513 Doubt it, there seem to be a very strong preference for books.
@@cynic7049 like animal farm or 1984?
"The Youngs were in the American Revolution" - yes, start them out Young so they get it right :D
It was the very Young's 😁
thought "the young ones" were British XD
Hi :) My only comment on today's topic is that too much or too little of anything is not good. :)
My question: When is an American school student old enough to walk to and from school alone? I do follow a RUclipsr who lives in Nashville Tennessee, whose 10-year-old daughter is not allowed to walk to and from school alone.
walking... never... no one walks in the US.... but that kind of independence probably comes around the age of 16, when they get their driver's license and first car...
The God part! May we get specified which God, it is supposed to be? 🤔
Santa-claus 🎅🏿
@@Joemamma664how about satan-claws instead ? \m/
To me that pledge is SO SO SO revolting. I've even said it myself living in the US during part of my childhood.
To me you could just as well make the nazi gesture as putting your hand on your shoulder. WW-II is not that far away here in Europe. It ended 13 years before I was born. It was very much present in the minds of my older family (parents, uncles, grandparents).
To tell kids to say that every morning when they don't even know what it means (I didn't) is indoctrination. That you have to do it - as consenting adults - to become citizens of another country is totally different.
Shudder!!!
VERY brave of you bringing it up, though. And Maya - YOU GO, GURL!!!
ETA: Apparently US kids used to do the hand-in-the-air-thing. "Bellamy Salute"
Her i Danmark skal man bare se alle 24 afsnit af Matador .. og synge Re-Sepp-Ten 🤣
Jeg arbejdede engang sammen med en, der aldrig havde set matador. Bare rolig, vi isolerede ham naturligvis og udskammede ham.
Kommer til at tænke på blinkende lygter...
Jeg har ikke set den
Haha,, havde en overgang min da 16 årige datter boende.. der blev skovlet Matador ind (ikke Haribo)
@@LambruscoPeterok... Så mens vi andre arbejder d.12 december.. så er du sikkert gået på juleferie?
The most weird thing about the America, are to get people to believe at America is the greatest's country in the world. But I think it has changed a bit, do to RUclips and and fx your videos. Tons of Americans are reacting to your videos, and other videos about Europe. They go to travel to Europe. some like HailHeidi and her husband are considering to move to Denmark. or at least to Europe. Its like the role has changed from the 80s. When I was I kid, my biggest dream was to go to the US. Its not a big dream anymore. And its remind me of this scene ruclips.net/video/bIpKfw17-yY/видео.html
This is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. The the pledge of allegiance is introduced to children just starting school and you compare it to doing a "pledge" as an adult.
I see the pledge of allegiance as a brainwashing toll, where it will be harder to criticize your country. Even if the pledge where original meant to unite people
The issue is not the pledge of allegiance in it self... It's making impressionable kids do it.
The kids are not old enough to make the "pledge" be legally binding...
Also I have always understood democracy as beeing the nation/government beeing loyal to its people, where the pledge of allegiance is kinda the other way around.
Making kids and aparantly only kids do it feelslike indoctrination. Something we normally only see from totalitarian regimes, like russian, north korea, china etc...
I until my 20th saw it as a sign of a totalitarian regime, if not the definition of it, the kids where if not forced then exspected to glorify their nation or leaders, since it's something the are by no means qualified or exsperienced enough to have an opinion upon.
Also dooing it as a full class is peer pressure instigated by a person of authority.
But please, this is by no means a critique of americans, but rather of any system that tries to force kids into a specific kind of thinking...
At brokke sig er at være dansk (to complain is to be a dane)
Something my dad aaaallways says. I don't know if it's uniquely danish, but he isn't wrong.
Hmm, was Eisenhower an advocate for the cold war?
Maya way to go on you not want to say it due to different reasons.
Highly interesting! Loved it, in fact. :-) The banner/flag has always served as a common symbol, bringing together a people in any country. Europeans often forget how different people generally are in the US; the federal system with states instead of municipalities and just the awe inspiring vastness of the country make for a very different makeup in governemental systems. I have travelled both the East coast and the West coast of USA, and I was struck by the big differences in culture, attitude and state laws. And come to think of it, I didn't experience any pledge of allegiance even once - and I was there for five months. To me, USA is melting pot of various cultures, but Europeans have a tendency of sticking the same label on everyone. Yes, more vids like that, please. :-)
I am born in 61, I know my mother would have gone bananas, if I had to do this in school or just listen to it. My father wouldn't care so much. Now I am grown up, I will side with my mother. Such things don't belong in a school, maybe boy- and girl scouts. The difference is that the scouts are voluntary, you can choose not to attend.
one of the problems is that when you're in a cult, you don't know you're in one...
Does that mean you are in one and don’t realize it yet?
@@TravelinYoung me personally... nah... but yes, it's like that quite often...
@@GarmrsBarking but according to your theory you could be and not even know it :).
@@TravelinYoung yep you're right... but for me, I have no affiliation to any political parties, religious groups, workplaces, sports teams or organizations where something like this can occur... so I'm pretty safe on that front... : )
i always thought that getting kids to pledge at an early age is to brainwash them be less anti-social and prep them for the army.
America is objectively great, don't abandon your origins. Denmark is great too though
Proud to be an American. There is no issue with the Pledge of Allegiance.
patriotism and nationalism have caused more problems then good.
protesting in a representative democracy is the only option people have to change some things..
in a real direct democracy you have voting as a option
store bededag can probetly only come back through protest.
voting for a new goverment in 3 years wont bring back the hollyday
the pledge to the flag, is some north korea shit. and the under god? come on? why do americans push god so much into everything? kinda weird, considering that america should be secular, but its more religius than eu.
Very interesting, thanks for the video 😊I could never pledge an allegiance to any country flag. For me it only marks the spot, where I have to pay tax. 😂
I think one of the most genius marketing or propaganda stunts ever made, is to put the cross in the Danish flag 'Dannebrog'.
You might not wanna die in a war for King and country, but if you don't, your going to hell kinda thinking and don't forget was believed to last an eternity, when we got our flag.
it feels a little like a cult to have kids say it daily in school.
I would have burnt and thrown the flag in the bin when the god sh.. came on! It is SO SAD that a nation WHITOUT religion in the state does that, also on the money.
Nothing is dividing the US more right now than The Pledge.
Well... 25 years of Fox embracing and perpetuating autocratic, nationalist, xenophobic and religious fundamentalist beliefs, coupled with the politics of grievance and militant rejection of anyone and anything that doesn't also embrace the same fringe beliefs is why the US is where it's currently at.
With the history we have in europe, ohh yes it sounds cultish, you pledge it to the flag, germany pleded it to Hitler italy to Musolini and NOT the country both were symbols of Nazism and Fascism.. the fact that you "have " to do it eveyday in school seems so overdramatic..
Its definitely a cultish thing.