@@MindoftheNorthStar understand the matchup? you mean pray you just frame jump his fireballs or whiff punish his normals? For the record even pros had trouble jumping his booms in time.
@@aspreedacore characters have ways to get around fireballs. If Guile is so broken, then why isn't his tournament representation higher? There's a reason why you saw a bunch of Akumas, Seths, Uriens, Rashida, etc
@@MindoftheNorthStar cause he is balanced around having only 2 moves and being a charge char🤔, definitely agree with getting around fireball options, juri says 🙋♀️
This season is so interesting in terms of the balancing direction, moreso than basically any other iteration of the game! I keep finding myself going "wow they buffed frame traps and certain throw mixups offense is going to get even stronger" and then immediately "wow so many strong crush counter buttons got totally neutered this season, defensive players got so buffed" What a Rollercoaster of emotion season 5 is so far
Noticing a pattern with Mediums this patch, everytime I hear a buff for a medium punch I get excited. there’s fancy buffs everyone gets, but I’m most excited for all the normals changes
I know you aren't going over universal changes in these, but Vshift needing to be neutral really hurts Guile being the only pure charge character in the game.
On a successful v-shift you have time to get charge, but it's pretty precise. Dropping charge to v-shift isn't a huge deal I think since you're committing to something that can't use it. However it does suck if he v-shifts and doesn't armor anything, since he doesn't have fireball charge right away. I think it was a deliberate decision though.
I guess? Can't you just pop back to neutral whenever you're going to v-shift though? I'm not an expert at SFV but from my point of view I don't think it will be that much of a problem. I could be wrong though.
Once you input V-shift if you go straight away to down/back you can get charge in time. I assume this was the purpose of the screen slowdown on successful V-shift. It allows a character like Chun-Li to charge for EX SBK as well. EX boom or EX flash kick are solid on a successful shift depending on what your opponent is doing.
I can understand the nerfs to boom, but they really gave him nothing to compensate? Most of his game plan is neutered now, so he can't rely on boom pressure anymore, requiring him to rely on normals more but than they also went after his normals for nerfing. So like what is he supposed to do with his archetype now? Right now all I'm seeing is a lot of theory that apparently this was due to Vshift, that it can benefit him to make his zoning stronger, but that's a lot of reliance on a theory that may end up not being true at all. If we're gonna be realistic and objective, the majority of the patches have shown a lot of things the devs implement in order to mitigate something does not work out at all. Like when they made Guiles trigger 2 bars because his three bar vt1 was too good because he could vreversal you so many times offensively and defensively in a match constantly getting him back to neutral where he benefits most. For the devs ending up wrong with that change because 2 bar VT1 was way too good since he could easily get 2-3 VTs activation in a match so they ended up reverting it back to 3 bars and instead did what they should've done in the first and nerfed vreversal. Point is the devs are putting way too much faith in Vshift and doing unnecessary nerfs around it based on literally a suspicion. When they're more likely to be wrong about it. This is why I'm so hella concerned, sure I guess they'll likely rebuff characters if Vshift ends up being weaker than they thought, or not a game changer. But what scares me is the developers incompetence during the whole lifespan of the game, and things might not change in the right way when they do change things for version 5.5. I definitely wanted certain things nerfed, and more than that I wanted a lot of characters to get buffed but this is seeming like too much now. They didn't need to nerf both up close and far range boom options, one option would've sufficed, seeing that hes already consistently dropped in the tier list twice already. There's also the fact I'm seeing Vshift really hurting zoners, (I have pro level proof). So if Vshift is gonna hurt Guiles whole gameplay design of zoning, it definitely makes these nerfs to both booms and his normals amplified in how much they just weakened this character. I want a fair balance not an exchange in tier placements with now having new characters be the annoying ones. I really hope I'm wrong.
@@yesumad if a lot Guile players drop him or if Guile players don't make top 8 anymore, thats more than enough evidence to know these changes were terrible. We just gotta play the waiting game now to see.
@@aa7146 I don't disagree, but this kinda knocks him down to a place no one deserves to be. And that isn't fair, be fair, don't only want your characters to succeed. If ppl can't want a fair balance,why should anyone care about your character or opinion?
So Guile has been nerfed. And this sounds bad but not terrible (unlike Dhalisim who didn't deserve the nerf). Any yeah Ive noticed the trend that this patch favors buffing offensive options over defensive options. I guess its to make up for a huge defensive mechanic in V-Shift? But It would be nice for the balance patch to buff both offensive AND Defensive options. Baf these videos are so damn clean. Keep up the awesome work!
Guile is probably going to be the most polarized by this change. I'm sure pre patch Guile with V shift would have been super dominant in the meta as that would effectively give him his old toolset with a more powerful, less costly v reversal. Looking forward to see what happens to Guile the most
Can we talk about V-Shift for Guile? What can he do after one since he can't be holding back or down to V-Shift? Is he relegated to only do the Shift Smash?
@@danaltamirano2546 I play guile too and I think it's a bit much. Now his hardest matchups became so much worse due to the addition of V-shift, while some of his better matchups got much harder not only due to V-shift but because other characters got crazy buffs, namely Alex. I'd prefer if boom stayed +2 on block but I don't make the game I just play it. I think he was changed the way he was since not touching boom and adding V-shift gives turtling guile overwhelming power when he gets to return to neutral for max 1 bar of V meter, when his triggers aren't that important to his gameplan anyway. Is it fair? I don't think so but I'd rather not have super lame turtling guiles become the top level of the character.
im fine with fixing boom spams. taking away corner boom pressure sucks. we can adapt to vs1 nerf and standing hard kick. forward hard punch would be nice with better recovery in exchange for the take aways
I think the nerfs on v-skill one were a bit too much, maybe they want you to shoot it instead of using it to anti-air, but now both of his v-skills are pretty toned down
It seems like their is more matchup knowledge in the game. Which means more depth. As much as a 2d fighter can hope for. The little tweaks are good. Vshift is a huge unknown to noobs like me.
I don't know, maybe it's because the patch is still new, but I think Guile might be mid to low tier this season. The introduction of V-shift hurts Guile uniquely because it removes his offensive option (v trigger) and his immediate defensive option (flash-kick). All characters can V-shift into super, except for guile. I think he might get the third strike treatment like remy, if 3s didn't have a parry he'd be top tier but he is low tier because offensive fireball pressure is weak, I think a similar thing might happen to guile this season.
Capcom seems to be buffing frame traps overall since v-shift beats them. As a guile main, I'm not happy, but feel it's fair the more I play him. Sonic boom is probably the biggest nerf. His best pressure imo comes from blocked booms. I felt he was top 7 before and I think this will push him down to around top 15, not bad not great. He still has good pokes and booms are still super positive when blocked from a distance, he just now needs to be more aware of spacing and carelessly pressing buttons.
I see what capcom tried to do with guile, but overall they destroyed the thing that made him really unique, kind of sucks as I thought Guile's character and playstyle were super cool for a two-move character, but I guess they want more casual Balance. RIP Guile, I don't think anybody will stick with him in the pro circuits, they will rather play Ryu or even Sagat at this point. But well, season 4 Daigo's Guile will be always remembered and it still is one of the most impressive and high-level performances that I have seen in my life. Sad day for all SF fans but good as Daigo goes back to his love Ryu
They're in announce order, just like the patch notes were. Should be Ibuki, Balrog, Juri and Urien next if memory serves. Ed will be sometime in the season 2 characters, I think.
I think previously, the cognitive workload to play Guile effectively was low compared to other high-tier characters such as Akuma or Urien. These changes-- combined with the addition of V-shift-- seem to me like Capcom is trying to give the Guile player a bit more to think about.
They're the names of the buttons. People don't say them much these days but they're much faster to say Jab, strong, fierce = LP, MP, HP Short, forward, roundhouse = LK, MK, HK
I have never played this game but based on these videos, it seems like the patch/update was overwhelmingly buffs and only few nerfs. Balance must have been awful before this, that is to say, those that did not get buffs or even got nerfs must have been insanely overpowered. Looking at Guile now, he seems about what I'd expect which makes me wonder what he was like in SFV before this.
Not really. Some characters were pretty bad, like Alex and Nash, so they got a lot of buffs. Others that were very strong were toned down a bit. Most of the cast just got minor changes so they don't appear to be that different.
I'm actually pretty happy he got nerfed but hearing people complain that they went too hard on Guile won't be fun. I understand people have an affinity for certain character archetypes but I dabble in all of them except Puppet Masters. Watching Guile just Sonic Boom for pressure or to open an opportunity for combos is really annoying because he has the lowest lag on his fireball amongst the Zoner type characters. Also his normals have long reach so there's that. Overall I don't want to be rude to the people who love Guile but he was definitely too good at certain aspects and Daigo singlehandedly made that very clear.
dude.... it's Daigo. Of course he's going to look unstoppable. That doesn't mean anything for other normal people. If Guile is so broken then why isn't the character winning majors all over the place?
@@MindoftheNorthStar There are still other amazing players, you don't need to be a savant like Daigo to do incredible things. Also the "Whole taking an entire tournament full of elite players with a character is the only way to validate if they're great" argument is very inconsistent. 1. Not everyone enjoys or are comfy playing a character built to be played a certain way. 2. Not everyone wants to tier whore and win, pride is a thing and as silly as that sounds to some people it's a good reason. I personally don't like making up for my flaws overall by playing a fully kitted character with little to no bad matchups or moves. 3. Reiterating again you're facing other skilled people with other great characters. This happened with Rashid, Karin and Akuma for a while if I'm not mistaken.
@@daygarcia4390 @Day Garcia Usually characters that are actually "top tier" are usually all over the place in tournaments. Why do you think you saw Seths everywhere? Its a pretty straight forward concept. Guole isn't fully kitted by the way. That made zero sense.
@@MindoftheNorthStar I just explained not everyone is comfortable playing certain archetypes of characters and Seth falls into the basic top tier category of rushdown with hard to punish moves, it's in every game such as in Brawl and Sm4sh with Meta Knight and Bayonetta. Both were combo heavy and were at the top completely alone in their respective games, that doesn't mean that being a rushdown character is a requirement. Guile has fantastic normals that come out quick, have great reach and have little lag on most of them. He can corner carry and has ludicrous combos that is essentially bread and butter for almost every Guile player with VT1 + VS2. So not only can he zone better than the rest of the zoners with the best fireball and multiple variations of said fireball, he can also combo really really well despite not being a rushdown combo character like Seth, Ken, Karin etc. Being a charge character is not that bad, people have made it work for ages now. Don't act like Guile wasn't absolutely fantastic because he wasn't a fast-paced combo machine, being a turtle is also devastating when played right but a lot of people myself included don't like that stuff. Fast paced action is far more hype and that's what keeps games alive. Daigo showed how incredible Guile is when piloted by someone truly patient.
@@daygarcia4390 I know you want to talk Guile up, but even with all of that subjective fluff you came up with He wasn't even a top 10 character. If he was then he was number ten. Learn the match up and you won't lose as much to him.
I feel like a bit of that was pro player bias, where daigo absolutely dominated with the character so he seemed a little more oppressive than he actually was. Still a top tier though so fair I guess.
@@HawkHollywood he's also literally dropped in the tier rankings twice. So did they really need to make him lower? No, that's just bad balancing at this point. Yes he definitely needed some minor nerfing so he isn't so mindless but, imo they went overboard. If they gonna nerfs booms in every way, he's gonna need to rely on normals more but they also nerfed his normals for neutral play, so what is he supposed to do now? He isn't gonna suck, but he's definitely gonna struggle now and I don't want any character in the game to struggle only in their bad match up like it should be, not struggle overall. I hope I'm wrong, this season will interesting for sure.
@@Hollowdarling only the boom nerf I have a problem with, the Burn Straight nerf and sobat nerfs are fine but they took the real offensive threat from him
@@HawkHollywood Yeah I think either a nerfs to his normals or to his booms would've been enough, but nerfing both was overboard. Like how is he supposed to approach you now? He's the only pure charge character in the game, Balrog can walk fwd cause he has a special with a motion input, but not Guile, he can't scare you in neutral anymore and walk forward, since his conversions are terrible without charge. Unless they're planning on making everyone mid tier, that's the only way this would make sense, but that's not true, there's clearly still top tiers in the game. I'd rather everyone be high tier rather than what they're doing here, don't make characters not problematic, just make other characters problematic too.
It seems like capcom wanted daigo to main Ryu again and dropped Guile.
"There's literally a statue of you and Ryu together
My man, wtf are you doing being a Guile main?"
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if he stuck with Guile.
Daigo doesn't think Ryu is tourney-viable
Guile is still too strong
@@Aggrofool not even in season 5?
Ngl, while waiting for Kage, I'm learning quite a bit about other characters. Super useful videos, thanks
you got the sauce for your pfp
@@post9025 kobeni from chainsawman. Idk about the artist. Just saw it posted and used it for my pfp
That's baf for you man
@@altokia2724 artist is Moshimoshibe, i gotchu
While himself Guile May have not been top tier he definitely bullied mid and low tier characters hard
Yeah if you are impatient or don't understand that match up.
@@MindoftheNorthStar understand the matchup? you mean pray you just frame jump his fireballs or whiff punish his normals? For the record even pros had trouble jumping his booms in time.
@@aspreedacore characters have ways to get around fireballs.
If Guile is so broken, then why isn't his tournament representation higher? There's a reason why you saw a bunch of Akumas, Seths, Uriens, Rashida, etc
@@MindoftheNorthStar it's because Guile's archetype (zoner) is hard to play...unlike those rushdown characters like akuma,seth and urien.
@@MindoftheNorthStar cause he is balanced around having only 2 moves and being a charge char🤔, definitely agree with getting around fireball options, juri says 🙋♀️
He got a serious bonk with the nerf stick.
This season is so interesting in terms of the balancing direction, moreso than basically any other iteration of the game!
I keep finding myself going "wow they buffed frame traps and certain throw mixups offense is going to get even stronger" and then immediately "wow so many strong crush counter buttons got totally neutered this season, defensive players got so buffed"
What a Rollercoaster of emotion season 5 is so far
Noticing a pattern with Mediums this patch, everytime I hear a buff for a medium punch I get excited. there’s fancy buffs everyone gets, but I’m most excited for all the normals changes
I know you aren't going over universal changes in these, but Vshift needing to be neutral really hurts Guile being the only pure charge character in the game.
On a successful v-shift you have time to get charge, but it's pretty precise. Dropping charge to v-shift isn't a huge deal I think since you're committing to something that can't use it. However it does suck if he v-shifts and doesn't armor anything, since he doesn't have fireball charge right away. I think it was a deliberate decision though.
I guess? Can't you just pop back to neutral whenever you're going to v-shift though? I'm not an expert at SFV but from my point of view I don't think it will be that much of a problem. I could be wrong though.
Once you input V-shift if you go straight away to down/back you can get charge in time.
I assume this was the purpose of the screen slowdown on successful V-shift. It allows a character like Chun-Li to charge for EX SBK as well.
EX boom or EX flash kick are solid on a successful shift depending on what your opponent is doing.
Also means Guile doesn’t always need charge for a defensive maneuver, which is something that’s messed me up playing Chun
@@Bafael guile is the only one with a hard ca to vshift punish, every other character has massive leniency when executing it
I can understand the nerfs to boom, but they really gave him nothing to compensate? Most of his game plan is neutered now, so he can't rely on boom pressure anymore, requiring him to rely on normals more but than they also went after his normals for nerfing. So like what is he supposed to do with his archetype now? Right now all I'm seeing is a lot of theory that apparently this was due to Vshift, that it can benefit him to make his zoning stronger, but that's a lot of reliance on a theory that may end up not being true at all.
If we're gonna be realistic and objective, the majority of the patches have shown a lot of things the devs implement in order to mitigate something does not work out at all. Like when they made Guiles trigger 2 bars because his three bar vt1 was too good because he could vreversal you so many times offensively and defensively in a match constantly getting him back to neutral where he benefits most. For the devs ending up wrong with that change because 2 bar VT1 was way too good since he could easily get 2-3 VTs activation in a match so they ended up reverting it back to 3 bars and instead did what they should've done in the first and nerfed vreversal.
Point is the devs are putting way too much faith in Vshift and doing unnecessary nerfs around it based on literally a suspicion. When they're more likely to be wrong about it.
This is why I'm so hella concerned, sure I guess they'll likely rebuff characters if Vshift ends up being weaker than they thought, or not a game changer. But what scares me is the developers incompetence during the whole lifespan of the game, and things might not change in the right way when they do change things for version 5.5.
I definitely wanted certain things nerfed, and more than that I wanted a lot of characters to get buffed but this is seeming like too much now. They didn't need to nerf both up close and far range boom options, one option would've sufficed, seeing that hes already consistently dropped in the tier list twice already.
There's also the fact I'm seeing Vshift really hurting zoners, (I have pro level proof). So if Vshift is gonna hurt Guiles whole gameplay design of zoning, it definitely makes these nerfs to both booms and his normals amplified in how much they just weakened this character. I want a fair balance not an exchange in tier placements with now having new characters be the annoying ones.
I really hope I'm wrong.
Indeed my friend. I´m a Guile player. No more neutral or zoning game. Guile now hasn´t any special gameplay. Just waiting...
@@yesumad if a lot Guile players drop him or if Guile players don't make top 8 anymore, thats more than enough evidence to know these changes were terrible. We just gotta play the waiting game now to see.
@@Hollowdarling or maybe they knocked him down a peg like he needed to be
@@aa7146 I don't disagree, but this kinda knocks him down to a place no one deserves to be. And that isn't fair, be fair, don't only want your characters to succeed. If ppl can't want a fair balance,why should anyone care about your character or opinion?
@@Hollowdarling yeah, he really feels worse now. He should have gotten something to compensate for it indeed
Damn, this patch has buffed the grapplers and rush down characters but characters like Guile got the middle finger basically.
So Guile has been nerfed. And this sounds bad but not terrible (unlike Dhalisim who didn't deserve the nerf).
Any yeah Ive noticed the trend that this patch favors buffing offensive options over defensive options.
I guess its to make up for a huge defensive mechanic in V-Shift? But It would be nice for the balance patch to buff both offensive AND Defensive options.
Baf these videos are so damn clean. Keep up the awesome work!
Guile is probably going to be the most polarized by this change. I'm sure pre patch Guile with V shift would have been super dominant in the meta as that would effectively give him his old toolset with a more powerful, less costly v reversal. Looking forward to see what happens to Guile the most
Damn they screwed guile up big time
Man, season 5 has me excited for SFV again and gives me hope for SF6 lol, love these videos.
Morning baf. Great vid as always.
Yes guile got overall nerfed, this makes him more approachable and easier to deal with ✊
They should've left him the way he was the 1st time smh
Uh no
They nerfed Guile only so that Daigo will start playing Ryu again
Apologies if this had been mentioned elsewhere, but Guile’s booms are still +2 on block during VT1.
Look how they massacred my boy...
Now you actually must use some brain! Tragic, isn't it?
@@Bafford absolutely devastating, my last brain cell is gonna be pissed when I wake him up
@@Bafford Guile made you pretty salty. Learn the match up
@@Bafford Guile was fine , you just a whack ass player
@@PICHUAKUMA oh he was fine? Awesome, glad he got nerfed cause he was fine. Fucking idiot
Good night Baf !
Well yeah, Guile isn't hurt that much by the nerfs.
Can we talk about V-Shift for Guile? What can he do after one since he can't be holding back or down to V-Shift? Is he relegated to only do the Shift Smash?
Same as in sf4 and sf3 since both mechanics requires directional or neutral
Even if I didn't like fighting him, I grow wary nonetheless, regardless of nerfs.
Fair nerfs I suppose. Am a Guile main.
The only one in existing
You think they are fair? Idk I use characters that can´t really approach Guile and even then I feel like they went hard on him.
@@danaltamirano2546 I play guile too and I think it's a bit much. Now his hardest matchups became so much worse due to the addition of V-shift, while some of his better matchups got much harder not only due to V-shift but because other characters got crazy buffs, namely Alex. I'd prefer if boom stayed +2 on block but I don't make the game I just play it. I think he was changed the way he was since not touching boom and adding V-shift gives turtling guile overwhelming power when he gets to return to neutral for max 1 bar of V meter, when his triggers aren't that important to his gameplan anyway. Is it fair? I don't think so but I'd rather not have super lame turtling guiles become the top level of the character.
Fuck Guile!
give back the bazooka knee we deserve then
im fine with fixing boom spams. taking away corner boom pressure sucks. we can adapt to vs1 nerf and standing hard kick. forward hard punch would be nice with better recovery in exchange for the take aways
I think the nerfs on v-skill one were a bit too much, maybe they want you to shoot it instead of using it to anti-air, but now both of his v-skills are pretty toned down
This entire patch is Capcom asking Daigo to switch mains.
@@kosbebot6360 He probably still won't lol
@@DevilJin01 it looks like he has
They nerfed the hell out of him lmao
Thank goodness
@@rustyshackleford4801 If you actually thought he was "OP", then you losing to Guile won't change
Mind of the North Star nope, I go bodied by him yesterday, hopefully they take away his sonic boom and give it to Cammy.
It seems like their is more matchup knowledge in the game. Which means more depth. As much as a 2d fighter can hope for. The little tweaks are good.
Vshift is a huge unknown to noobs like me.
I don't know, maybe it's because the patch is still new, but I think Guile might be mid to low tier this season. The introduction of V-shift hurts Guile uniquely because it removes his offensive option (v trigger) and his immediate defensive option (flash-kick). All characters can V-shift into super, except for guile. I think he might get the third strike treatment like remy, if 3s didn't have a parry he'd be top tier but he is low tier because offensive fireball pressure is weak, I think a similar thing might happen to guile this season.
Im never sad to see guile get nerfed
Guile got nerfed hard
pain
Capcom seems to be buffing frame traps overall since v-shift beats them. As a guile main, I'm not happy, but feel it's fair the more I play him. Sonic boom is probably the biggest nerf. His best pressure imo comes from blocked booms. I felt he was top 7 before and I think this will push him down to around top 15, not bad not great. He still has good pokes and booms are still super positive when blocked from a distance, he just now needs to be more aware of spacing and carelessly pressing buttons.
I see what capcom tried to do with guile, but overall they destroyed the thing that made him really unique, kind of sucks as I thought Guile's character and playstyle were super cool for a two-move character, but I guess they want more casual Balance. RIP Guile, I don't think anybody will stick with him in the pro circuits, they will rather play Ryu or even Sagat at this point. But well, season 4 Daigo's Guile will be always remembered and it still is one of the most impressive and high-level performances that I have seen in my life. Sad day for all SF fans but good as Daigo goes back to his love Ryu
I'm waiting for ed lol
They're in announce order, just like the patch notes were. Should be Ibuki, Balrog, Juri and Urien next if memory serves.
Ed will be sometime in the season 2 characters, I think.
Good
I see most high level streamers wrecking Guile but losing to many other characters
Never liked Guile so I'm not upset by this at all.
OUCH!
I'm glad u said mindlessly keep opponents out cuz guile players think their neutral is so nice when really it's just really strong tools
I think previously, the cognitive workload to play Guile effectively was low compared to other high-tier characters such as Akuma or Urien. These changes-- combined with the addition of V-shift-- seem to me like Capcom is trying to give the Guile player a bit more to think about.
Oh you know I’m back at it again hoping you have a nice day! Also, when was the last time you drank some water?
Corny
Fair nerfs! He is still a very viable character overall!
Why would they nerf a defensive character in a game still heavily favoree by offense?
Bad idea.
He was still too good, pressure and great normals, he was defensive and oppressive
What is all this low strong low forward thing how does it work?
They're the names of the buttons. People don't say them much these days but they're much faster to say
Jab, strong, fierce = LP, MP, HP
Short, forward, roundhouse = LK, MK, HK
gang gang
Yikes, his V-skill is pretty much worthless now
I have never played this game but based on these videos, it seems like the patch/update was overwhelmingly buffs and only few nerfs. Balance must have been awful before this, that is to say, those that did not get buffs or even got nerfs must have been insanely overpowered. Looking at Guile now, he seems about what I'd expect which makes me wonder what he was like in SFV before this.
Nah Sf5 has a really nice balance and guile before this was an high tier,arguably top tier character,nothing more
Not really. Some characters were pretty bad, like Alex and Nash, so they got a lot of buffs. Others that were very strong were toned down a bit. Most of the cast just got minor changes so they don't appear to be that different.
@@elcugo Ok then.
As I said, I have never even played SFV, I was just guessing based on these videos.
alex, nash & ryu are all near the beginning and are all usually considered somewhere in bottom 5, so later on changes will probably seem more lenient
I'm actually pretty happy he got nerfed but hearing people complain that they went too hard on Guile won't be fun. I understand people have an affinity for certain character archetypes but I dabble in all of them except Puppet Masters.
Watching Guile just Sonic Boom for pressure or to open an opportunity for combos is really annoying because he has the lowest lag on his fireball amongst the Zoner type characters. Also his normals have long reach so there's that. Overall I don't want to be rude to the people who love Guile but he was definitely too good at certain aspects and Daigo singlehandedly made that very clear.
dude.... it's Daigo. Of course he's going to look unstoppable. That doesn't mean anything for other normal people.
If Guile is so broken then why isn't the character winning majors all over the place?
@@MindoftheNorthStar There are still other amazing players, you don't need to be a savant like Daigo to do incredible things.
Also the "Whole taking an entire tournament full of elite players with a character is the only way to validate if they're great" argument is very inconsistent.
1. Not everyone enjoys or are comfy playing a character built to be played a certain way.
2. Not everyone wants to tier whore and win, pride is a thing and as silly as that sounds to some people it's a good reason. I personally don't like making up for my flaws overall by playing a fully kitted character with little to no bad matchups or moves.
3. Reiterating again you're facing other skilled people with other great characters. This happened with Rashid, Karin and Akuma for a while if I'm not mistaken.
@@daygarcia4390 @Day Garcia Usually characters that are actually "top tier" are usually all over the place in tournaments. Why do you think you saw Seths everywhere? Its a pretty straight forward concept.
Guole isn't fully kitted by the way. That made zero sense.
@@MindoftheNorthStar I just explained not everyone is comfortable playing certain archetypes of characters and Seth falls into the basic top tier category of rushdown with hard to punish moves, it's in every game such as in Brawl and Sm4sh with Meta Knight and Bayonetta.
Both were combo heavy and were at the top completely alone in their respective games, that doesn't mean that being a rushdown character is a requirement. Guile has fantastic normals that come out quick, have great reach and have little lag on most of them. He can corner carry and has ludicrous combos that is essentially bread and butter for almost every Guile player with VT1 + VS2.
So not only can he zone better than the rest of the zoners with the best fireball and multiple variations of said fireball, he can also combo really really well despite not being a rushdown combo character like Seth, Ken, Karin etc.
Being a charge character is not that bad, people have made it work for ages now. Don't act like Guile wasn't absolutely fantastic because he wasn't a fast-paced combo machine, being a turtle is also devastating when played right but a lot of people myself included don't like that stuff. Fast paced action is far more hype and that's what keeps games alive. Daigo showed how incredible Guile is when piloted by someone truly patient.
@@daygarcia4390 I know you want to talk Guile up, but even with all of that subjective fluff you came up with He wasn't even a top 10 character. If he was then he was number ten.
Learn the match up and you won't lose as much to him.
guile was like top tier last season he kinda deserved it
I feel like a bit of that was pro player bias, where daigo absolutely dominated with the character so he seemed a little more oppressive than he actually was. Still a top tier though so fair I guess.
you're crazy if you think he's top tier. He doesn't have the same power as the top 10-15ish do on offense.
@@HawkHollywood he's also literally dropped in the tier rankings twice. So did they really need to make him lower? No, that's just bad balancing at this point.
Yes he definitely needed some minor nerfing so he isn't so mindless but, imo they went overboard. If they gonna nerfs booms in every way, he's gonna need to rely on normals more but they also nerfed his normals for neutral play, so what is he supposed to do now? He isn't gonna suck, but he's definitely gonna struggle now and I don't want any character in the game to struggle only in their bad match up like it should be, not struggle overall.
I hope I'm wrong, this season will interesting for sure.
@@Hollowdarling only the boom nerf I have a problem with, the Burn Straight nerf and sobat nerfs are fine but they took the real offensive threat from him
@@HawkHollywood Yeah I think either a nerfs to his normals or to his booms would've been enough, but nerfing both was overboard. Like how is he supposed to approach you now? He's the only pure charge character in the game, Balrog can walk fwd cause he has a special with a motion input, but not Guile, he can't scare you in neutral anymore and walk forward, since his conversions are terrible without charge.
Unless they're planning on making everyone mid tier, that's the only way this would make sense, but that's not true, there's clearly still top tiers in the game. I'd rather everyone be high tier rather than what they're doing here, don't make characters not problematic, just make other characters problematic too.
Rip me my brain dead charge inputs got nerfed
How will I cope with only having three brain cells to play
This is enough for me to drop him completely. Atleast poison is still very strong