Were the American Founding Fathers Christian? With Gregg Frazer
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- Were America's founding fathers Christian? Did they embrace the core tenets of Christianity? Or, were they deists? In this episode, Dr. Gregg Frazer joins us to talk about those men who helped design the constitution and found the great nation of America. Frazer challenges the common notions and helps us look at the facts of history.
Dr. Frazer has also provided a handout entitled, "Why is the Christian America View Dangerous?" It can be found here: petergoeman.co...
Gregg Frazer has written two great books on the time of America's founding:
The Religious Beliefs of America's Founders: Reason, Revelation, and Revolution (www.amazon.com...)
God against the Revolution: The Loyalist Clergy's Case against the American Revolution (www.amazon.com...)
#America #history #Christianity #foundingfathers #johnadams #georgewashington
The Bible Sojourner Audio podcast: anchor.fm/the-...
More About the Host, Peter Goeman: petergoeman.com
People interested in this subject of also watch Chris Pinto's documentaries The Secret Mysteries of America's Beginnings (3 parts) and Hidden Faith of the Founding Fathers.
Thanks for the heads up on another resource to check out! Appreciate it.
ruclips.net/video/-myElJB_VNg/видео.htmlsi=mDcmhVVo3fGI78tY
What about the Jesuits Gregg? I think its ridiculous to deny that conspiracies exist.
Read George Washington Snyder's letters to George Washington.
Dr. Douglas Haugen does a better job of discussing this.
I did enjoy this but was disappointed with the dismissal of the Freemason influence.
From what I’ve learned the use of GOD in caps is to make ambiguous which god and comports with the Freemason beliefs in a deity architect/creator. Washington DC is set out in Masonic ways with symbology. This aspect greatly affects how you understand the founding fathers and their beliefs and their desires die the US and their role in the establishment of an enlightened new world order.
As Greg said, it’s even on the money. There are symbols around the artwork of the buildings in DC also which clearly depict their beliefs.
To ignore this element throws the whole discussion into shade to avoid being called a conspiracy theorist, which is what end times theology will be more and more depicted as.
Thanks for bringing this up, the world is not what we think it is.
Exactly. These men were Masonic conspirators. This man's information is useful to a point but he has a major blind spot. I recommend the documentaries on America's beginnings by Chris Pinto.
"The idea that everybody has to be a christian or we cant respect them or they cant accomplish anything or contribute anything is silly".
"God uses believers but he also uses unbelievers". WOW did I ever need to hear this. Thank you!
We all definitely need to hear it! Glad you found it encouraging and helpful. Blessings!
This channel needs way more views. I heard you on Naked Bible with Michael Heiser. I'm going to share this.
Thanks, Tony. Appreciate you listening and sharing!
44 were masons. Have a blessed day.
The Masons connection is certainly intriguing!
....they chiselled rocks 😊
@@thebiblesojourner The True Religious Aims Of The Founding Fathers | The Hidden Faith Of The Founding Fathers. (Full Documentary) ruclips.net/video/-myElJB_VNg/видео.html This comment will be deleted
@@1969cmp Most of them did not. A cursory reading of their letters tells you the truth about it. Absolutely deceptive on your end.
@@Th3BigBoy ...its called humour...
This was excellent
Thank you for watching!
They definitely were not Christian’s or our founding documents would have been better, instead of in God we trust it would have said in Jesus we trust
You know… I’ve never thought about that but that is an interesting difference. Thanks for bringing that up!
You know… I’ve never thought about that but that is an interesting difference. Thanks for bringing that up!
In God We Trust has absolutely nothing to do with the Founding of this Country and everything to do with nefarious Republicans trying to inject religion into the government. "E Pluribus Unum" has more to do with our Founding than "In God We Trust" you can Google McCarthyism to better understand what happened 70 something years ago.
Ultimately, ethics is based on logic, and is, in fact, a branch of philosophy, which is all about logic. Both Plato and Aristotle came to similar conclusions, regarding right & wrong, the "Good," etc, though they approached the subject from opposite starting points, the "World of Ideas" (Plato), and the physical World (Aristotle). That was the topic of a term paper I wrote, for a class in Ancient Philosophy, I took.
Very interesting brothers! Considering I am a New Zealander living in Australia lol...we actually often hear over here that America is a "Christian Country" (like Australia and New Zealand) - I wonder if the truth about my own country is somewhat different than I thought hmmm!
History is often much more complex that it is told at the pop level.
The structure and knowledge that was shared to create and still works,,, only if you work it...
Very true.If we look at the 1st century Church(Not Catholicism) They were so separate from the world that anyone instantly knew who Christians were because they lived lives so devout to Christ himself that the light of the Holy Ghost fully shined through them. The only involvement with the world our brothers and sisters had then was simply working, paying our taxes/bills, and most importantly of all being a beacon of light that in all ways Sought to honor our Lord. The world is the world. We as blood washed born again Christians
(body of Christ)are to by the guidance of the Holy Spirit are called to live a life that uplifts the name of Christ himself to the glory of God the father.
There is not enough like buttons.
@@adedwards5418 I wish you would truly look at the first century Church!
This is outstanding. As a pastor, this site nourishes me.
Thanks for sharing that. Praise God!
The comment that really got my attention is that Jefferson helped authored a founding document that appealed to many religious views/ belief systems. In that light, it would be interesting to understand the composition of the founders and the country. Were they mostly Christians or deists/atheist?
Mixture of Christians and theistic rationalists. Around 2-3 of them were deists.
Thank you kindly.
So glad you found the video helpful.
00:30 Is it considered acceptable to clean mold from old books? I know, in numismatics, cleaning old coins is a no-no.
I'm reading his very serious book (theistic rationalism) and it's very well written.
Great! Thanks for the recommendation.
John Adams' ancestors were on the Mayflower. I know some of his descendants who have been quality evangelical ministers and missionaries.
Chris Pinto made an outstanding documentary with historical facts that pulls back the curtain on the major framers of the constitution. There were over 200 founding fathers so I don't doubt a handful or maybe more were indeed devout believers in Jesus Christ but the major players were NOT christian men. They used the teachings of Jesus and the Bible as a moral guideline, not because they believed in his divinity or saving grace.
Jefferson, Franklin, Washington, Madison.. all have had quotes about the Bible and Jesus taken out of context by people like David Barton to try and prove they were believers. Franklin and Jefferson specifically did not believe in the divinity of Christ or his saving grace. This is why I find the "God bless the USA" Bible that Donald Trump is peddling so shameful. To put a man made, fatally flawed document alongside the inerrant Word of God is blasphemous. Baffles me why more believers are not speaking out.
Thanks for the heads up on Chris Pinto-I’ll try to remember to check him out.
This was great! So helpful! Thanks Dr. Goeman.
Thanks, Chris!
While this man has offered good, key info, HE LEAVES SO MUCH UNSAID. concerning.
Well, to be fair, it is a short podcast. If you want more said, Dr Frazer has written multiple books you can get! But I definitely recommend his work as a hard working historian.
Another possibility that you didn't mention, maybe Washington and the Deists are correct about Christianity and you are wrong.
Well, the point of the discussion was simply to show that people who claim Washington and Adams et al were Christians need to look again at the evidence. It depends on what you mean by your comment, but I don’t think you can be a Christian and deny what the Bible teaches.
Dr. Goeman, would you please share the biography of Alexander Hamilton that Dr. Frazer recommends?
Absolutely--this is the one that he recommended: www.amazon.com/Alexander-Hamilton-Ron-Chernow/dp/0143034758/ (Ron Chernow)
@@thebiblesojourner Thank you!
In the Capitol, there’s a fresco inside the dome. Oh how it appears so beautiful. Scholars who study ancient history, Ancient Greek, and further know how the gods ( demons) names changed. They can identify what the artist understood. Pagan gods are surrounding Washington in the dome “the Apatheosis of George Washington” (becoming a diety) Walt Whitman said he was becoming the Osiris.
Jefferson approved “the most approved plan.” They build the city to drawn down occult power. A Massive ritual chessboard.
The Washington Monument - 555ft above ground 111 feet inside the earth = 666ft . There’s a base, 666 square connected to Apollo ( Osiris).
Where are you getting the idea that the foundation of the Washington monument is 111 ft in the earth? I can only find numbers that are much less. Also, apparently the official height is 554 feet 7 inches. Not sure if that will matter to you or not 😄
I thought so.
And Patrick Henry.
The Constitution is signed after "done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven . . ." which is a direct reference to the Lord Jesus Christ, so his statement about the absence of "God language" is not correct.
How is 1787 a direct reference to Jesus?
@@thebiblesojourner Modern time is stated as either before Christ (B.C.) or after the Diety (A.D.), thus "our Lord" is a reference to Jesus Christ. Who else would "our Lord" refer to, especially since they were at least churchmen who were aware of the Jesus of the Bible even if they did not personally believe in him as savior.
All my life I have heard that God gave us our nation and the way it operates. As a result every Christian has a God-imposed obligation to vote in every election, even if it is only for the lesser of two evils. Dutiful Christians then scramble to come up with cogent formulas for determining the most evil politician so that they can vote for the other guy. Because it is impossible to know who will be the most evil in their lifetime Christians come up with different conclusions. But, when Christians pursue politics from a humanistic, compromise-based, perspective one thing is certain, they all vote for someone evil and some mistakenly vote for the most evil. This, we are told, is how God is using us to save our nation.
Im a big fan of HBO series John Adams.
You certainly get an understanding that there is a significant variation of belief with those who formed the first congress.
Cheers and blessings from Australia.
Thanks for the tip on the HBO series! I’ll have to look into it. Appreciate your interaction!
@@thebiblesojourner ...tremendous scripting. The dialogue of that period be that the John Adams series or Pride and Prejudice is rich is way out of my league and education.
The series "I, Claudius" from the mid 70s is also lavish though based on a 20th novel is nonetheless impressive. Claudius, a friend of Herod Agrippa also mentions Jesus Christ.
@@1969cmp The True Religious Aims Of The Founding Fathers | The Hidden Faith Of The Founding Fathers. (Full Documentary) ruclips.net/video/-myElJB_VNg/видео.html
Four hours before his death a Jesuit was called to Washington's side so Washington could take Catholic communion. He died a Catholic which in my mind does not make him a real Christian.
That story is fake, its been disproven countless times...
Nobody is a true Christian.
Source?
@@toeknee5565Google it, there many articles. February 24, 1957 Denver Register wrote a complete report.
Lies there are true Christians out there
"Were the American Founding Fathers Christian?" -- not really a yes/no question as some were, some were definitely not.
I'm not sure it matters. As believers, we're called to "go and make disciples of ALL NATIONS", not just ones that have a historical Christian tradition.
You’re right. I think the biggest takeaway is that we should not assume all leaders of Americas beginnings were Christian. That is where we get into trouble. The only reason it matters is some people occasionally like to paint a picture of only Christians founding America history is a little more complex and we should observe that.
Hogwash… Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, and Hamilton were men of the enlightenment. They were advocating for Reason and the abolition of superstitions. Look up “Jefferson’s Bible”
Did you watch the episode? Frazer was arguing that Washington, Adams, Jefferson should not be considered Christians. I don’t understand the hogwash comment? Sounds like you agree with him.
@@thebiblesojournerWas John Adams a Congregationalists and later became a Unitarian....okay, answered in 36:00 or thereabouts. 😮
One really knows what another believes by what they say in public.
Immediately, Tucker Carlson and [cable] Fox news hosts come to mind.
.....and Rachael Maddow.
I think the truth is the exact opposite.
@@toeknee5565Exactly right.
Biases from the onset!
There are several near death experiences that when ppl visited heaven and came back to earth George Washington was seen in heaven in one instance someone saw Jedus and George Washington go down ànd hover over our country. G Washingto said nothing but hung his head in sadn ess as Jesus wept over the sin ìn our country.
Also the Bible warns about taking communion if sin or unforgivenesis in the heart of the believer. The penalty is to sleep in death. I just offer this as a rationalization that may have influenced him.
I appreciate you listening and offering these comments. I personally am skeptical about visions or experiences of visiting heaven. There is no way to verify if those are accurate or a figment of someone's imagination. As far as not taking communion, that could be an influence for 1-2 times, but not for perpetually avoiding communion. His practice of avoiding it is unsettling. Yet, ultimately God knows who is saved and who isn't. Thanks for participating in a good discussion.
Bigot then meant adherent or disciple today.
To say that America is not in Revelations is a grave mistake. The lamb like Beast made up from the people's of the earth. The sentiment is even inscribed upon the statue of Liberty.
It is tempting to try to put America in the Bible, but we ought not to interpret the Bible by what the Statue of Liberty says.
@@thebiblesojourner it's not just the statue of Liberty. It is one of the last powers. Revelations is not a mystery today. It's easily understood when the Bible is your guide.
The lamb like beast is the false prophet, read the rest of the other chapters not just one verse. The dragon is the devil, the first beast is the antichrist and the second beast is the false prophet.
And the image they make and give power to speak is probably going to be some type of a.i when it becomes a.g.i and reaches singularity
@@BLUESMAN64ford I have. I respectfully disagree with your assessment. The false prophet is the apostate Protestants which do inhabit America for the most part but. The church and the state are seperate powers.
@@BLUESMAN64ford I respectfully disagree but we we agree that the dragon represents Satan, as explicitly indicated in Revelation 12:9, a point of common understanding across many Christian interpretations.
The identification of the first beast with the antichrist and the second beast with the false prophet can be seen in a different light when considering the broader narrative of both the books of Daniel and Revelation, paired with historical insights.
The first beast that emerges from the sea in Revelation 13 is often linked to a system of false worship, historically identified with the Holy Roman Catholic Church during the Middle Ages. This connection is made when examining the period during which the church held temporal power, leading to practices and teachings that diverged from the foundational Christian doctrines.
The second beast, emerging from the earth with two horns like a lamb but speaking like a dragon, is interpreted to symbolize a powerful nation (often understood to be the United States) that rises espousing Christian values but ultimately exercises influence in ways that are contrary to its foundational principles, particularly in matters of religious liberty.
The term "false prophet" is commonly associated with apostate Protestantism, which, in this view, allies with the system of false worship in the end times to enforce the mark of the beast. This mark is understood to pertain specifically to when and how people worship, signifying allegiance either to God or to the beast's system. The enforcement of Sunday worship is often cited as a central aspect of this mark, contrasting with the biblical Sabbath, which God has set as a sign to differentiate His people. Exodus 31:13 states, “Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.” This verse underlines the Sabbath as a divine sign of loyalty and distinction.
Moreover, Ezekiel 20:12 further emphasizes, “Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.” Such verses highlight the significance of the Sabbath in demarcating God's people from others, indicating that the final conflict will revolve around issues of worship, specifically the timing and manner of worship as a mark of allegiance.
In light of the discussion on artificial intelligence and its potential role in end-time events, it's important to remember that the core of prophecy points towards spiritual and religious decisions regarding worship and adherence to God's commandments, particularly the Sabbath, as opposed to technological advancements.
What about the Christians landing at Cape Henry dedicating this land to Jesus Christ.
What about the angel who came to George Washington who said over and over "Son of the Republic Look and Learn"
What about the Battle with the British in which 2 of George Washingtons horses were shot out from under him and he had many bullets in his clothing that did not penetrate his clothing when mos t all of the others in battle were killed. Washington frequently retired to the thickets to appeal to heaven. There a flag with a tree thst is called an appeal to Heaven? Have you inckuded these things in your publications. Washington was also a mason ehich is not Christian. I wonder what he thought of masonry?
NO NO and NO.
Haha, well you’re nothing if not emphatic 😀
Yes, they were Christian.
What did you think of the video and specifically their letters?
Sure, Samuel Adams, Patrick Henry, John Jay, Charles Carroll and a couple others were.
There is no such thing, as a Christian country. Jesus forbade human government in Mathew 5:39, as well, as in many other verses. Having pride in being a citizen of a state, which uses violence and partakes in wars is sinfull. Supporting it is even more sinfull.
Tired of people waving these flags around, they worship a golden calf and don't even know it. It is sad to see the sheep live in the devils fake world of politics and religion, slaves to the devils system of control and don't even know it. Can't wait for Jesus to come back. Jesus is not religion, Jesus is Jesus.
There is only one who has fought and died for everyone’s freedom, he is Jesus Christ, the rest have fought and died for the devil’s lies. Ones who say they are proud to have served their make believe country have something wrong with them. The devil has infiltrated everything in this piece of land, yet know one fights for Jesus anymore, instead human robots who are in the military will do what they are told in this physical world. You don’t see the military fighting the devils perverted sickness that has taken over the world. Soldiers are used for stealing land and natural resources.
Rather than forbid human government, God establishes and reigns through it-- the Bible.