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Mazda did say one time that they would never give up on the Rotary as long as the company existed even if there was no publicly available version of it, that they would always keep working on it internally. I'd love to see them go for a public version again.
They are obsessed and stated they will burn money forever because they believe it's the perfect design just not yet perfected. I love it Just like the Japanese and the boxer engine. Accept I hate the boxer engine and hate more doing head gaskets requiring a machinists plane on a boxer engine with a high likely good of immediately failing.
Me too. Mazda has invested enormous effort and brainpower on rotary engine development. Good on them for keeping a flame burning for Wankel’s invention when everyone else gave up.
I love how Scotty included Liquid Piston in this without actually saying anything about them. Their Peanut in a Triangle design solves a lot of the problems that the Wankles have. I am the former owner of a beautiful Gen 2.
Because it is exactly the same design as the Mazda just inside out , the Mazda has a 8 shaped chamber and a triangle inside , the liquid piston has a triangle shaped chamber with a 8 shaped rotor ! Just the same thing inside out !
@@JosephCowen-fz8vj But the differences effect how it behaves and performs. They also effect reliability. Saying it is the same but inside out seems too reductive.
@aaronmatherly9602 yes and no , it's the same motion but reversed , the Wankel could have used internal rotor porting of a similar nature , this engine is a figure 8 turning in a triangle and a Wankel is a triangle turning in a figure 8 , same motion just swapped design parameters .
@@JosephCowen-fz8vj You are trying to conflate the two designs based on their "inverted" geometry and motion alone. I acknowledge the relationship you are pointing out. Can you acknowledge that their are other aspects to the different designs that set them apart?
I currently own a 93 twin turbo RX7 and a 88 turbo RX7 BOTH RUN ha!. IMO i feel Mazda REALLY puts in the time and R&D into making great cars I'm looking forward to seeing what they will do. The Rotary community is HUGE and with the growth of technology these engines just keep getting better and better!
HAHA I own a 93 twin turbo and 88 as well... neither of them run, but thats due to my neglect more than anything. And the reason they don't run has nothing to do with the engines going out. My 93 is in the process of getting resurrected by Banzai Racing right now.
Confirmed rotor head here. I’ve had 5 RX7s, 1980, 1983, and 3 85’s. Still have the GSL-SE. 108K on factory engine. Daily driver. Back and forth to work. Only periodic maintenance performed with age related issues such as fuel injectors and clutch replacement. Runs like a Swiss watch. Oil tight. Fun to drive. Also have a 2004 RX8 Grand Touring 6 speed that I’ve had for 20 years. Same thing. I drive them, I do not baby them. A trip to redline a day keeps the mechanic away. So smooth. They sound amazing at full tilt, so lightweight. And yes, both pass CA emissions every 2 years. You can have your cake and eat it too. Drive it like you stole it, but maintain it like your Momma drives it and you’ll be fine. I LOVE Mazda, because they are independent and try things that nobody else does. Remember the Miller cycle V6? Also has 2 of those. One 99 and a 2001 Millenia S. So far ahead of the game. They have passion and soul. And they build beautiful cars that LAST! Long live the peritrochoid.
I had and RX-3 and an RX-4 and loved driving these rotary engine cars. There’s no doubt the rotary has issues that need fixing, but the power, smoothness, quietness and lightness are great to live with.
@@RickHolland1968 straight 6 are very smooth. And a bootful more torque, the only thing the rotary has over it are the revs it can go to (not everyones cup of tea tho) and the lower weight. I think I would take a Nissan RB engine over a rotary.
There is so much incorrect information in this video that it's not even feasible to correct it. Just safer to consider everything in the video wrong and proceed from that assumption.
Great vid! I've always thought the idea of a rotary engine was super cool. Ever since being a teenager I have been fascinated by this motor that is piston-less and non-traditional. I hope Mazda can make it happen. While the rotary engine may be "dirty" it has so much potential to create HP in such a small package. Thanks for the info!
*Doesn't matter how cool it is, EV's are far more efficient, it's not even close, you can buy roof top solar for your house to charge your car on the weekend and it's free to run, far less maintenance, just all round better way to move the car.*
If one of the problems with the rotory engine was city driving shortening it's life between repairs, then maybe continouse operation at optimal conditions will extend its life between repairs and target better efficiency. What's nice here is its power for size. And that is extra important in electric hybrid cars.
@@stoneylonesome4062There are plenty of them on Bring a Trailer each month, well under 100K. But you don't seem to do any research before you make a statement.
Quick point of correction as per knowledge gleaned from Rob Dahm's video "Fixing the BIGGEST Problems of the Rotary Engine" : one of the issues of rotary engines is that to boost adoption, they routed the oil pan's oil to a port to lubricate the apex seals, except synthetic oil doesn't burn cleanly. To remedy this, the port can be plugged at the expense of making a premix of gas and 2-stroke oil that's meant to burn much more cleanly. The oil pan's oil stays in the oil pan and is used to lubricate the rest of the engine with whatever oil you want.
In years past Mazda has said that one of the biggest problems was to get the apex seals to work over a wide rpm range. Making the engine into a range extender makes perfect sense as you can optimize the seals to work at the recharge speed. The rotary engine has always been simpler and smaller than the Otto cycle.
@@Appletank8its nowhere near a 25% efficiency gap when both are run atva static rpm like they would as a generator in a range extender. the efficiency can be brought well within range of modern piston engines in that setting, and its extreme performance relative to size would take up less room and allow for more flexible instalation and better balance of aerodynamics and cargo room all engines will benefit from running at a set speed if they are properly designed for it, but reciprocating gas engines have the least to gain from it. diesel and rotarys will gain a lot more. diesel will have all the same drawbacks of gas piston engines with the addition of about twice the weight. is a rotary a good choice for something like a pure gas commuter? no is it a nearly ideal choice for a range extender for the average consumer who will only ever need it a couple times a year? most definitely
@@silentbobfan32 From the couple of research papers on Wankel efficiency I've read, yes being on the ideal BSFC zone is much better than being off it, but the peak isn't as high as you'd think. Even in a world with perfect seals, the Wankel still has the problem that its combustion chamber is long and thin, resulting in high heat losses to the coolant instead of mechanical work, resulting in a theoretical max *~30%* efficiency. You pretty much need a magical material with 0 heat transfer to come close to piston engine efficiency (~35%). Engines in the RX8 were hitting 25% at _best._ When Toyota is hitting 41% efficiency with their Dynamic Force engines, this means being 25% worse on fuel-to-power right off the bat. This is partly why a lot of engines nowadays are about 0.5L per cylinder, its the best combo of surface area/volume and packaging. If Mazda really wants to sell the idea of a rotary generator, they have to push the other advantages as hard as they can, because fuel efficiency ain't it. The theoretical ideal for a PHEV is a big electric range with a small, lightweight engine to boost overall range to do long trips comfortably. The small Wankel seems like it could be a perfect fit. The problem is that the addition of the small Wankel cuts the electric range of the MX30 in half, to the point it's basically on par with the RAV4 Prime on electric range, and much worse on gas range. What little information Mazda has given out has implied an MPG of 25. Out of an engine producing only 74 HP. This is awful.
Im grateful my uncle taught me how to work on these motors growing up. Family has had Rx7's left and right. It was fun working on these. You can take everything apart and rebuild in a day of you know what your doing.
I have a degree in mechanical engineering and worked for two different diesel engine companies and I still don't understand rotary engines. All I know is, when I was a kid (80's) there was only one shop in town that worked on rotaries...and he was ALWAYS busy.
Just for reference the 12 rotor was unveiled by Tyson in 2015 and given to Rob Dahm in 2023 the motor has been reconstructed with some much needed machining and is getting upgrades that may actually achieve the 5000 HP goal
@@MichaelKursebecause they want 5000hp? Becasue they know how to handle 5000hp? Becasue they can afford to have a 5000hp build? Because they race, like the commenter before me said? 😢😢😢 😂
Loved my 1st and 2nd gen RX7s, never had an issue with oil burning. I drove mine in the city and had one that I sold with over 200k miles and still ran great.
If nobody has come up with a more robust, much more efficient, and much longer lasting apex seal, Mazda can forget it. Nobody, with any sense, is going to pay that kind of money for a vehicle that probably won't make it to 150,000 miles, except, maybe, rich, adventurous people.
Anything is better than being forced to operate one of them electric chair cars. My biggest nightmare is getting t-boned by one of those heavy cars and while I’m in agony from the impact it starts electrocuting me and bursting into flames. Surviving all that but get cancer from toxic fumes.
I owned 2 RX-7s. I'll never again own a rotary engine. I had 4 episodes when I couldn't get the thing started and had to have it towed to the dealer to start it. Once it misses that initial start attempt, they are done. The 1 time I did get it to start was when I put it on a battery charger and got it to start after cranking it for 10 minutes on and off. That warmed up the engine.
Felix Wankel began working at German firm NSU Motorenwerke to develop a rotary internal combustion engine . His name is pronounce with a V "Vankel" and not with a W, Remember its German and not American English or English.
I loved the Mazda rotary engine, I bought a new RX7 and it was a fun car to drive. I always noticed at higher speeds 80+ the engine sound was like a sewing machine it was so quiet. And no vibration at all. I really hope they bring back the rotary in a twin or triple rotor, that would be AWESOME !!
I am interested in seeing rotary engine innovation especially with hybrid vehicles. Seems like a perfect matchup. Unlike the high power applications which do not highlight the rotary benefits. Absolutely love your presentation of this complex material! Thank You Scotty!
Debatable., the most comparable vehicles is between the Rav4 hybrid and the CX30. the Rav4 has about 40 mpg while the CX30 rotary extender gets like 30 mpg at best. That moving combustion chamber is just a serious obstacle against complete combustion.
A perfect matchup? An engine that only benefitted a handful of enthusiasts? An engine that needs constant maintenance to be reliable? An engine that is renouned for poor emissions and fuel economy? Bring it back in an enthusiast sport car not a bloomin hybrid!
This video said that the vehicles with longer lifespans stayed mostly on the highway. Sounds like something that would work well for constant charging if they could solve the heat issue in the batteries....
the only thing hybrid gives the rotory is toerque and it being instant is a benefit but if mazda made a production 20b it would beat most modern sports cars if it had an electric motor with it
I hope to see a new Rotary Engine soon in a new Mazda sports car. I wish that you had touched on the NSU Rotary engine from the company now know as Audi (Audi NSU Auto Union)
I've always loved my rotaries. And most people that have used them will tell you the same. There's just something about them. Thanks for this great video!
Over and over and over and over and over again we have been hearing about how solutions to the problems of the Wankel rotary engine have been found. And here we go again.
In basic terms ; the Rotary suffers the three problems Two Stroke Engines suffer from and why you rarely see Two Stroke Cars or Motorcycles on the Highway these days. Unacceptable Fuel Consumption , Excessive Pollution and Short Engine Life....
I know, range extenders aren't cool, but the rotary could run at a fixed speed and load (when needed) and that would minimize a lot of technical problems. EVs are impractical from issues of battery size and recharge time. This might make a practical compromise.
@@michaelpapazis It gets gradually better, but not exponentially (and the current batteries, by the manufacturer's own specs shorten their life by frequent fast charging). The big issue currently is heat. The electrolyte in current battery designs is contained withing semi permeable membranes and simply pumping more energy into the charge heats the electrolyte far faster than it can flow. And that is bad. Even now, auto batteries have complex circuitry that turns off different cells that are getting too hot Faster charging will require a completely new approach. There are theoretical approaches, but none ready for mass adoption in the near future.
My butterscotch colored rx3 only takes 4 hours to overhaul. New tip seals oil pump rebuild included. I have over 800,000 miles on it with one modification, a webber side draft carburetor. It runs great has enough power and cost of ownership over the past 40+ years is next to nothing. Keep your car fix what the factory didn’t and enjoy.
I'm glad Mazda isn't *completely* turning towards the muted luxury direction most car manufacturers are going. There's still the innovative spirit and automotive passion somewhere in there, and I love to see it!
I always thought that it's just fundamentally difficult to get a good seal with the rotor geometry. Would an additional spark plug located later in the power stroke help even out the combustion imballance?
Back in the mid ‘70’s I had a Mazda rotary truck. That thing flew! Regret ever getting rid of it. I’m a believer of the technology and would buy on3 in a heartbeat!
Rotary engines and cool, and different, which kinda makes them interesting and unique, but I definitely like the reliability and longevity of Mazdas piston engines. I loved the BP engines that were used in the Miatas. The old BP engine from the 90s in my car is still running in 2023 and still doesn't burn any oil. I know there is a cult following for the rotary, and it would be cool to see them return with improvements.
I had an RX7 which I purchased brand new. It was smooth, powerful and fun to drive in the San Francisco Bay area, Santa Cruz and the surrounding coastal mountains. I was in my 30's. What a fun treat.
Rx7 has always been one of my favorite cars, I'm ot mechanically inclined or a speed demon, I just thought it looked gorgeous! I've heard of some short comings before but this definitely gave me some perspective and I've reco sidered my stance on it being my daily driver!
It will fail as a range extender, too, because it’s inherently less efficient than a piston engine. You’re never going to get around the fact that a piston engine will burn fuel more efficiently.
I have had a RX2 & RX3, they were the most fun I have ever had in a car, I swear I raced the RX3 daily, lasted for 2 years, then I sold it, because it scared the crap out of me, it developed a weird gyration in a corner at about 135, it almost sent me into a apple orcherd, I had to straighten out in the middle of the corner, and reset the drift in the corner, made it, and put it up for sale the next day....looking back I wish I would have kept it :)
Drove an RX4 for 150k miles, the last 75 k with a Racing beat intake with 550 cfm Holley. Wonderful ! Later, put a 13B in an Alfa Gulietta. Sold it for a big profit. I'm a believer, enthusiast, and promoter of rotarys.
The rotary engine is objectivly not the most efficient engine, yet these are nowhere near as bad as you make them out to be. Fuel economy for example does not entirely rely on the engine, but also the weight, size and aerodynamic coefficient of the car. The Wankel rotary also does have it's strengths, mainly the very small weight and size with huge power density.
I had an RX-3. I found that the mpg I got at the then-mandatory 55 mph was less than what I got at 70. It was the smoothest-running engine I've ever had with the obvious exception of a electric motor. If they bring out another, if I can afford it, I'll buy it.
I had an rx4 back in 75. It never burned oil. I worked at a gas station and changed the oil frequently. It could spin the tires. That little engine had power and people couldn't believe what it could do.
The 12 rotor motor was built a decade ago. It blew up, sat around till last year or so, then it was sent to a RUclips Rotary tuner. Who took on the task of adding new technology and improving on the flaws in the original design. 12 cylinders makes for incredibly difficult ECU. Check it out.
Love the Rotary engine. Years ago I had a Mazda RX-2 with a tuned 13B Bridge Port, fuelled by twin 48mm Webber carby's. So much fun to drive. It definitely surprised a few expensive cars out on the road. Wish I still had it.
ditto. I really enjoyed pulling up along side the Caddies on I 5. They would never let me pass. That was until I bought an RX 2. Funny little junior reader car that left them in my dust.
I had a ‘73 RX-2 4 Dr sedan. Bought new still sitting on the lot in ‘74. Looked like a Toyota Corolla but surprised the hell out of some 396 Chevelles stoplight to stoplight. Of course, it got close to the same mileage as a Chevelle. 2 distributors with 3 sets of points. What a mess, but loved the way it ran. Had that boxy 4dr, terrible aerodynamics, up to 115 one night in calm air when it started getting squirrelly. Still had plenty of throttle left, but I backed out of it. Speedometer went to 135 mph and I think it could get close in an aerodynamically stable car. Limitless rpm’s.
I noticed in the video you mixed up the liquid piston engine with the Wankle engine , I think the liquid piston engine engine is a much better design .
Always interested in rotary engine developments. It is true that fuel consumption was 20-25% higher in 87 RX-7 compared to 84 Honda Accord driven over the same route.
Very neat video. One of the graphics you showed was actually a LiquidPiston engine instead of a wankel, though that's actually an engine I'd love to see in a commercial vehicle some day.
Thank you Scotty. I bought a 74 RX4 in 78 right out of high-school. Fun car. Ended up blowing the apex seals, my own fault and bought a core. Kept it going until the frame rusted. Then on to an 85 RX7. Fun car.
Has anyone seen the 12-rotor version that was just rebuilt on one of the YT channels? I don't know if they have fired it up yet or not. It is 3 banks of four rotors
My first car was an RX7. It was so fun. Seemed to hug corners like it would never let go. Of the line I'd be in 1st while the other guy had already shifted to 3rd! Fun little treat to have had.
While I appreciate the support given to the rotary, there are SO MANY things wrong in the text and graphics of this video that I don’t know where to start! If you want more info on the 12 rotor boat engine, search for Rob Dahm’s channel. Oh, and that beauty of a red car teased during the speculation about the return of a Mazda rotary sports car? …that’s the RX VISION prototype from almost a DECADE ago.
N/A Rotary durability is better than turbocharged ones. Buttheads often blow seals by brainless dialing up the boost. It is a racing oriented engine that Mazda should have never advertised it as a passenger car. You are recommended to redline the rotary engine at least once per drive to burn away excess carbon deposits. Thank you for all you do Scotty 👏 👏 👏
That multiple Rotary chamber boat engine reminds me of the Napier deltic engine. Wich had amazing weight to horsepower ratio. it also had a very complicated setup.
I have an 82 RX-7 with just over 70k miles. Runs like a champ. It’s a completely different feeling car to drive - I could drive all the way to work in third gear. In fact, on back roads, I almost never use fourth (and never fifth). Down shifting is a very different experience as well because it’s so smooth and happy at high RPMs. Super fun little car and I always loved the first gen style.
Back in the mid-80s, I think more RX-7s were sold because of how very cool the look was rather than the rotary engine, but I could be wrong. Anyway, I remember test driving one back in 1984 or so and the sales guy invited me to punch it and test its power. Wow, was that cool.
As an airplane buff I need to make a correction. A rotary engine has the cylinders and the crankcase rotate around a FIXED crankshaft, with the propeller being driven by the engine crankcase. A Wankel engine is not a rotary engine.
I hope Mazda does produce another Rotary Engine car. I will buy one! I’ve owned my 83 rx7 for 27 years! Driving a Rotary powered car is like nothing else it’s so fun. A ported and or turbo Rotary is just RAW power!
Rotary engines are reliable if you look after them, majority of people don't. The engine fires every stroke, its an engine for sports cars, not everyday driving. Personally i blame buyers for not knowing what they are buying Oh and they run great on hydrogen and unlike petrol don't wash out the oil.
I had a Mazda RX-2 with a standard manual five speed. I got through the gas shortages during the seventies, but I wouldn’t be in one of those cars at my age. I was in my twenties, so at that time I didn’t think I was going to die 😂
i had a mazda rx3 rotory engine in a motorcycle back in the '80's, it was called the rotor motor~ It only had one gear, direct drive through a belt to a chain drive. sounded like a vw taking off, around 3000 rpm however, the horsepower started taking a verical accelleration curve and it produced more hp & torque the faster it spun! Crazy fast and powerful bike~ I have photos
Scotty, There is a reason you have almost 8 million subscribers. Such a well done video and I can see the amount of work you put into this. Very informative....When I was in High School in the late 70's my dad was a Mazda dealer and he allowed me to buy a 1972 RX 2 car and had his mechanic build me a supped up RX 4 engine (I don't understand how you could sup one up but it ran real good in that little RX2 body) The funny part is every time I tried to be real quiet coming in late on the weekend I would get all the way into the house and BOOOM!!!!! You guessed it a backfire that would always wake my dad up, it was like his own little alarm clock, that danged car would rat me out every time. Good memories thanks for explaining how this happened.
Expansion chambers could be used to address the unhurt fuel mix entering the exhaust system in a similar way to two stroke engines where a shock wave is used to force the mix back through the exhaust port before it is closed for the next cycle.
Hopefully someday the Wankel engine will be long lasting engine, the amount of hp per displacement without any forced induction is quite amazing. The happy benefits of E85 no benzene, no toluene, no xylene. Much lower amounts of PM2.5, PM10, CO,HC, NOX emissions than gas and diesel.
The Mazda Skyactive designs impress me more. Both on paper and from my ownership of a 2017 Mazda 3. I thiught you were leading up to talking about the new Mazda inline 6 Skyactive motor released in the CX90 so far. Mazda being the only company releasing a new in line six after recognising the superior qualities compared to a V6.
Yes, definitely excited to see a comeback. Been a fan of the rx7. I can't say the same for owning one though, I'll leave it to the bottomless pocket modders to do that. But it's exciting to see what people will do with this new rotary.
Some of the pictures you showed were actually the working of the liquid piston engine, which is the successor to the rotary engine and is aimed at solving its inherent flaws.
Ex mazda dealership tech here. I loved the RX-7's did many core changes. It really was a sweet little car. Very smooth running engine little to no vibration.
When it comes to driving anything with a rotary engine in it, u should use 2 cycle mix in ur gas tank to get longer times between each engine rebuild and I would love to get one of those new Mazda’s and tear the rotary out of it and put it in something else
Diesel is the absolute best there is no negotiation longevity durability efficiency and lower maintenance so of course the system attacks it trying to destroy it
It seems like every single day one of the car companies is shocking the whole industry. I'm shocked when a day goes by when there isn't a shocking announcement. 😀 😄
Hi Scotty my understanding of the fuel consumption issue is that the rotary uses an exceptionally rich mixture during warm up as a result of quenching due to the surface area of the combustion chamber. Having owned and enjoyed two RX8 231,s. I can state that an engine in fully warmed state, although not on a par with conventional piston engines, does return over 35 mpg imperial which for a 2.6 L gasoline we may have the 1.3 / 2.6 argument here! Is not so bad. Look forward to Mazda developing the rotary further.
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Yeah but how long and how hard can you drive it!! Truck might only last 1 hot hours getting really worked in the field
But will it be reliable?
@@l0I0I0I0 reliable for just driving around 40 mph waving at people’s!
I would love to see a 5000hp 12 cylinder rotary engine! The applications could be endless!
Perhaps I would make a good reliable portable generator? Except bad gas mileage?
Mazda did say one time that they would never give up on the Rotary as long as the company existed even if there was no publicly available version of it, that they would always keep working on it internally.
I'd love to see them go for a public version again.
It's time
They are obsessed and stated they will burn money forever because they believe it's the perfect design just not yet perfected. I love it
Just like the Japanese and the boxer engine. Accept I hate the boxer engine and hate more doing head gaskets requiring a machinists plane on a boxer engine with a high likely good of immediately failing.
Me too. Mazda has invested enormous effort and brainpower on rotary engine development. Good on them for keeping a flame burning for Wankel’s invention when everyone else gave up.
@@bradnail99 This is a money pit that will never be produced due to inefficiency and
emissions.
@@icosthop9998 Mazda will never go out of business in our lifetime. They sell a lot of product.
The car industry has had so many shocks that it's now on life support😂
According to Scotty the only use for EV vehicles is to shock the industry back to life.
I don’t know who’s doing the editing for Scotty…
😅 ain't that the truth..
I'd like to see the Wankel motor actually work for us again. I believe it's an awesome design. & so unique, It's got to work! 😊
So many shocks, cars industry will get bouncy! Hahah!
I love how Scotty included Liquid Piston in this without actually saying anything about them. Their Peanut in a Triangle design solves a lot of the problems that the Wankles have. I am the former owner of a beautiful Gen 2.
Because it is exactly the same design as the Mazda just inside out , the Mazda has a 8 shaped chamber and a triangle inside , the liquid piston has a triangle shaped chamber with a 8 shaped rotor ! Just the same thing inside out !
@@JosephCowen-fz8vj But the differences effect how it behaves and performs. They also effect reliability. Saying it is the same but inside out seems too reductive.
@aaronmatherly9602 yes and no , it's the same motion but reversed , the Wankel could have used internal rotor porting of a similar nature , this engine is a figure 8 turning in a triangle and a Wankel is a triangle turning in a figure 8 , same motion just swapped design parameters .
@aaronmatherly9602 lol, but it's the exact mechanical principal inverted , simple ,
@@JosephCowen-fz8vj You are trying to conflate the two designs based on their "inverted" geometry and motion alone. I acknowledge the relationship you are pointing out. Can you acknowledge that their are other aspects to the different designs that set them apart?
I currently own a 93 twin turbo RX7 and a 88 turbo RX7 BOTH RUN ha!. IMO i feel Mazda REALLY puts in the time and R&D into making great cars I'm looking forward to seeing what they will do. The Rotary community is HUGE and with the growth of technology these engines just keep getting better and better!
HAHA I own a 93 twin turbo and 88 as well... neither of them run, but thats due to my neglect more than anything. And the reason they don't run has nothing to do with the engines going out. My 93 is in the process of getting resurrected by Banzai Racing right now.
I miss my 88 Turbo II. That car was fun to drive and handled like it was on rails.
@@maximusextreme3725 FC's are the best!
@@karlwithak. they were just so simple! I’ve never had one leave me on the side of the road!
@@karlwithak.
???????????????????
Confirmed rotor head here. I’ve had 5 RX7s, 1980, 1983, and 3 85’s. Still have the GSL-SE. 108K on factory engine. Daily driver. Back and forth to work. Only periodic maintenance performed with age related issues such as fuel injectors and clutch replacement. Runs like a Swiss watch. Oil tight. Fun to drive. Also have a 2004 RX8 Grand Touring 6 speed that I’ve had for 20 years. Same thing. I drive them, I do not baby them. A trip to redline a day keeps the mechanic away. So smooth. They sound amazing at full tilt, so lightweight. And yes, both pass CA emissions every 2 years. You can have your cake and eat it too. Drive it like you stole it, but maintain it like your Momma drives it and you’ll be fine. I LOVE Mazda, because they are independent and try things that nobody else does. Remember the Miller cycle V6? Also has 2 of those. One 99 and a 2001 Millenia S. So far ahead of the game. They have passion and soul. And they build beautiful cars that LAST! Long live the peritrochoid.
I had and RX-3 and an RX-4 and loved driving these rotary engine cars. There’s no doubt the rotary has issues that need fixing, but the power, smoothness, quietness and lightness are great to live with.
Had a 1984 GSL-SE, smoothest car I have ever driven, the only thing smoother would be an EV.
@@RickHolland1968 straight 6 are very smooth. And a bootful more torque, the only thing the rotary has over it are the revs it can go to (not everyones cup of tea tho) and the lower weight. I think I would take a Nissan RB engine over a rotary.
@@azzman73 Like an attractive blonde and an attractive brunette, both are good, just different....
There is so much incorrect information in this video that it's not even feasible to correct it. Just safer to consider everything in the video wrong and proceed from that assumption.
I had to scroll WAAAY to far to find this!
wdym?
@@RUclipsrMomentsYT ALL HAIL AARON CAKE! (thats what she said)
Scotty gives all kinds of bad info i work on cars for a living and cant stand his channel
Great vid! I've always thought the idea of a rotary engine was super cool. Ever since being a teenager I have been fascinated by this motor that is piston-less and non-traditional. I hope Mazda can make it happen. While the rotary engine may be "dirty" it has so much potential to create HP in such a small package. Thanks for the info!
*Doesn't matter how cool it is, EV's are far more efficient, it's not even close, you can buy roof top solar for your house to charge your car on the weekend and it's free to run, far less maintenance, just all round better way to move the car.*
So….. build better catalytic converters, or something. Fix the emissions issue, and get the ball rolling, again!
@@robertjdm3988 the seals make the rotary an inherently bad design. It's cool asf but...
If one of the problems with the rotory engine was city driving shortening it's life between repairs, then maybe continouse operation at optimal conditions will extend its life between repairs and target better efficiency. What's nice here is its power for size. And that is extra important in electric hybrid cars.
Driving a manual RX7 is like driving a fast airplane. I love their power and high RPM.
A damn shame you can’t find a good condition, original unrestored RX-7 FD for anything less than a million dollars or so these days.
@@stoneylonesome4062 yup. I had a white 81 and then a red 84 with black leather back in the day loved those cars and wish I kept mine..
Nothing compares to the smoothness and power delivery of the Rotary
I had a Rx3, 79 Rx7 and a 85, 85 first fuel injected car I owned they all were nice cars but I'm glad that I worked at a Mazda dealership.
@@stoneylonesome4062There are plenty of them on Bring a Trailer each month, well under 100K. But you don't seem to do any research before you make a statement.
Quick point of correction as per knowledge gleaned from Rob Dahm's video "Fixing the BIGGEST Problems of the Rotary Engine" : one of the issues of rotary engines is that to boost adoption, they routed the oil pan's oil to a port to lubricate the apex seals, except synthetic oil doesn't burn cleanly. To remedy this, the port can be plugged at the expense of making a premix of gas and 2-stroke oil that's meant to burn much more cleanly. The oil pan's oil stays in the oil pan and is used to lubricate the rest of the engine with whatever oil you want.
In years past Mazda has said that one of the biggest problems was to get the apex seals to work over a wide rpm range. Making the engine into a range extender makes perfect sense as you can optimize the seals to work at the recharge speed. The rotary engine has always been simpler and smaller than the Otto cycle.
You really need a massive battery range advantage because even as a range extender, it is still like 25% worse thermal efficiency.
@@Appletank8its nowhere near a 25% efficiency gap when both are run atva static rpm like they would as a generator in a range extender. the efficiency can be brought well within range of modern piston engines in that setting, and its extreme performance relative to size would take up less room and allow for more flexible instalation and better balance of aerodynamics and cargo room
all engines will benefit from running at a set speed if they are properly designed for it, but reciprocating gas engines have the least to gain from it. diesel and rotarys will gain a lot more. diesel will have all the same drawbacks of gas piston engines with the addition of about twice the weight.
is a rotary a good choice for something like a pure gas commuter? no
is it a nearly ideal choice for a range extender for the average consumer who will only ever need it a couple times a year? most definitely
@@silentbobfan32 From the couple of research papers on Wankel efficiency I've read, yes being on the ideal BSFC zone is much better than being off it, but the peak isn't as high as you'd think.
Even in a world with perfect seals, the Wankel still has the problem that its combustion chamber is long and thin, resulting in high heat losses to the coolant instead of mechanical work, resulting in a theoretical max *~30%* efficiency. You pretty much need a magical material with 0 heat transfer to come close to piston engine efficiency (~35%).
Engines in the RX8 were hitting 25% at _best._ When Toyota is hitting 41% efficiency with their Dynamic Force engines, this means being 25% worse on fuel-to-power right off the bat.
This is partly why a lot of engines nowadays are about 0.5L per cylinder, its the best combo of surface area/volume and packaging.
If Mazda really wants to sell the idea of a rotary generator, they have to push the other advantages as hard as they can, because fuel efficiency ain't it.
The theoretical ideal for a PHEV is a big electric range with a small, lightweight engine to boost overall range to do long trips comfortably. The small Wankel seems like it could be a perfect fit. The problem is that the addition of the small Wankel cuts the electric range of the MX30 in half, to the point it's basically on par with the RAV4 Prime on electric range, and much worse on gas range. What little information Mazda has given out has implied an MPG of 25. Out of an engine producing only 74 HP.
This is awful.
Im grateful my uncle taught me how to work on these motors growing up. Family has had Rx7's left and right. It was fun working on these. You can take everything apart and rebuild in a day of you know what your doing.
I had four different rotary engine cars. They worked super. I would buy one for sure Scotty. Good day and thanks for the information Sir.
I have a degree in mechanical engineering and worked for two different diesel engine companies and I still don't understand rotary engines. All I know is, when I was a kid (80's) there was only one shop in town that worked on rotaries...and he was ALWAYS busy.
Thank you, Scotty. You've helped me save thousands on repairs and extend the life of my cars exponentially.
Unfortunately not all auto techs are like Mr Kilmer.. honest..
Just for reference the 12 rotor was unveiled by Tyson in 2015 and given to Rob Dahm in 2023 the motor has been reconstructed with some much needed machining and is getting upgrades that may actually achieve the 5000 HP goal
Why would anyone need a 5000 HP engine? It reminds me of idiots in Los Angeles,sitting in bumper to bumper traffic for hours.....in a Lamborghini.😆😆😆🤔
@@MichaelKursebecause they want 5000hp? Becasue they know how to handle 5000hp? Becasue they can afford to have a 5000hp build? Because they race, like the commenter before me said? 😢😢😢 😂
Loved my 1st and 2nd gen RX7s, never had an issue with oil burning. I drove mine in the city and had one that I sold with over 200k miles and still ran great.
If nobody has come up with a more robust, much more efficient, and much longer lasting apex seal, Mazda can forget it. Nobody, with any sense, is going to pay that kind of money for a vehicle that probably won't make it to 150,000 miles, except, maybe, rich, adventurous people.
The rotary engine is legendary.
Anything is better than being forced to operate one of them electric chair cars. My biggest nightmare is getting t-boned by one of those heavy cars and while I’m in agony from the impact it starts electrocuting me and bursting into flames. Surviving all that but get cancer from toxic fumes.
I owned 2 RX-7s. I'll never again own a rotary engine. I had 4 episodes when I couldn't get the thing started and had to have it towed to the dealer to start it. Once it misses that initial start attempt, they are done. The 1 time I did get it to start was when I put it on a battery charger and got it to start after cranking it for 10 minutes on and off. That warmed up the engine.
Felix Wankel began working at German firm NSU Motorenwerke to develop a rotary internal combustion engine . His name is pronounce with a V "Vankel" and not with a W, Remember its German and not American English or English.
I loved the Mazda rotary engine, I bought a new RX7 and it was a fun car to drive. I always noticed at higher speeds 80+ the engine sound was like a sewing machine it was so quiet. And no vibration at all. I really hope they bring back the rotary in a twin or triple rotor, that would be AWESOME !!
Listen to electric motor at 15,000 rpm and 0 vibration...
@@firstbigbarneyew
I would like to see the Rotary engine survive and evolve with modern technology.
I am interested in seeing rotary engine innovation especially with hybrid vehicles. Seems like a perfect matchup. Unlike the high power applications which do not highlight the rotary benefits. Absolutely love your presentation of this complex material! Thank You Scotty!
Debatable., the most comparable vehicles is between the Rav4 hybrid and the CX30. the Rav4 has about 40 mpg while the CX30 rotary extender gets like 30 mpg at best. That moving combustion chamber is just a serious obstacle against complete combustion.
A perfect matchup? An engine that only benefitted a handful of enthusiasts? An engine that needs constant maintenance to be reliable? An engine that is renouned for poor emissions and fuel economy? Bring it back in an enthusiast sport car not a bloomin hybrid!
This video said that the vehicles with longer lifespans stayed mostly on the highway. Sounds like something that would work well for constant charging if they could solve the heat issue in the batteries....
the only thing hybrid gives the rotory is toerque and it being instant is a benefit but if mazda made a production 20b it would beat most modern sports cars if it had an electric motor with it
I hope to see a new Rotary Engine soon in a new Mazda sports car.
I wish that you had touched on the NSU Rotary engine from the company now know as Audi (Audi NSU Auto Union)
I've always loved my rotaries. And most people that have used them will tell you the same. There's just something about them. Thanks for this great video!
Of course I'd like to see it. But the problems are very hard to solve, especially the seals.
Over and over and over and over and over again we have been hearing about how solutions to the problems of the Wankel rotary engine have been found. And here we go again.
Uhh, that was one of the most concise, informative videos I’ve ever seen. Nicely done.
In basic terms ; the Rotary suffers the three problems Two Stroke Engines suffer from and why you rarely see Two Stroke Cars or Motorcycles on the Highway these days. Unacceptable Fuel Consumption , Excessive Pollution and Short Engine Life....
I know, range extenders aren't cool, but the rotary could run at a fixed speed and load (when needed) and that would minimize a lot of technical problems.
EVs are impractical from issues of battery size and recharge time. This might make a practical compromise.
Charging and battery tech gets exponentially better over time
@@michaelpapazis It gets gradually better, but not exponentially (and the current batteries, by the manufacturer's own specs shorten their life by frequent fast charging). The big issue currently is heat. The electrolyte in current battery designs is contained withing semi permeable membranes and simply pumping more energy into the charge heats the electrolyte far faster than it can flow. And that is bad. Even now, auto batteries have complex circuitry that turns off different cells that are getting too hot
Faster charging will require a completely new approach. There are theoretical approaches, but none ready for mass adoption in the near future.
My butterscotch colored rx3 only takes 4 hours to overhaul. New tip seals oil pump rebuild included. I have over 800,000 miles on it with one modification, a webber side draft carburetor. It runs great has enough power and cost of ownership over the past 40+ years is next to nothing. Keep your car fix what the factory didn’t and enjoy.
I'm glad Mazda isn't *completely* turning towards the muted luxury direction most car manufacturers are going. There's still the innovative spirit and automotive passion somewhere in there, and I love to see it!
I learned so much from you thanks for passing on your knowledge 🙏
Would love to see the rotary make a comeback. Love the RX7.
I had only once a chance to hear it live. I got shivers all over me. Its so amazing. Shame they are so rare in south europe.
Wanted lightweight, efficient, cheap, and easy to repair.
It's definitely lightweight.
1/4 ain't bad i guess.
I always thought that it's just fundamentally difficult to get a good seal with the rotor geometry. Would an additional spark plug located later in the power stroke help even out the combustion imballance?
Back in the mid ‘70’s I had a Mazda rotary truck. That thing flew! Regret ever getting rid of it. I’m a believer of the technology and would buy on3 in a heartbeat!
Rotary engines and cool, and different, which kinda makes them interesting and unique, but I definitely like the reliability and longevity of Mazdas piston engines. I loved the BP engines that were used in the Miatas. The old BP engine from the 90s in my car is still running in 2023 and still doesn't burn any oil. I know there is a cult following for the rotary, and it would be cool to see them return with improvements.
I had an RX7 which I purchased brand new. It was smooth, powerful and fun to drive in the San Francisco Bay area, Santa Cruz and the surrounding coastal mountains. I was in my 30's. What a fun treat.
Rx7 has always been one of my favorite cars, I'm ot mechanically inclined or a speed demon, I just thought it looked gorgeous! I've heard of some short comings before but this definitely gave me some perspective and I've reco sidered my stance on it being my daily driver!
My RX7 was a daily driver the 12A Rotary was rock solid back then. But I heard the 13B rotary and turbo's were problematic..
It will fail as a range extender, too, because it’s inherently less efficient than a piston engine. You’re never going to get around the fact that a piston engine will burn fuel more efficiently.
I have had a RX2 & RX3, they were the most fun I have ever had in a car, I swear I raced the RX3 daily, lasted for 2 years, then I sold it, because it scared the crap out of me, it developed a weird gyration in a corner at about 135, it almost sent me into a apple orcherd, I had to straighten out in the middle of the corner, and reset the drift in the corner, made it, and put it up for sale the next day....looking back I wish I would have kept it :)
Drove an RX4 for 150k miles, the last 75 k with a Racing beat intake with 550 cfm Holley. Wonderful ! Later, put a 13B in an Alfa Gulietta. Sold it for a big profit. I'm a believer, enthusiast, and promoter of rotarys.
Rotaries sing and sound like angels! Its a beautiful thing
Brap brap!
@walsakaluk4630 so do Subbies, lol. I own an 2004 STi and absolutely live the sound it makes!
Scotty - if your aim is to confuse the viewer - you've done a great job mate.
Better than an EV that's for sure.
???
@@carlosandleonhe said "Better than an EV that's for sure."
The rotary engine is objectivly not the most efficient engine, yet these are nowhere near as bad as you make them out to be. Fuel economy for example does not entirely rely on the engine, but also the weight, size and aerodynamic coefficient of the car. The Wankel rotary also does have it's strengths, mainly the very small weight and size with huge power density.
I had a 1973 Mazda rx3 with a rotary that thing would backfire after it sat turned off for a couple of minutes scared the crap out of people 😆
I used to work on Mazda rotary engines in the 70's they were brilliant, BUT, they were let down by the rotor tips and side seals used to fail. 🏴
I had an RX-3. I found that the mpg I got at the then-mandatory 55 mph was less than what I got at 70. It was the smoothest-running engine I've ever had with the obvious exception of a electric motor. If they bring out another, if I can afford it, I'll buy it.
I had an rx4 back in 75. It never burned oil. I worked at a gas station and changed the oil frequently. It could spin the tires. That little engine had power and people couldn't believe what it could do.
@@billrehm3590 They are all made to burn oil. If your oil metering pump is working correctly it would use a quart per 1000 to 1500 miles.
The 12 rotor motor was built a decade ago. It blew up, sat around till last year or so, then it was sent to a RUclips Rotary tuner. Who took on the task of adding new technology and improving on the flaws in the original design. 12 cylinders makes for incredibly difficult ECU. Check it out.
Love the Rotary engine. Years ago I had a Mazda RX-2 with a tuned 13B Bridge Port, fuelled by twin 48mm Webber carby's. So much fun to drive. It definitely surprised a few expensive cars out on the road. Wish I still had it.
ditto. I really enjoyed pulling up along side the Caddies on I 5. They would never let me pass. That was until I bought an RX 2. Funny little junior reader car that left them in my dust.
I had a ‘73 RX-2 4 Dr sedan. Bought new still sitting on the lot in ‘74. Looked like a Toyota Corolla but surprised the hell out of some 396 Chevelles stoplight to stoplight. Of course, it got close to the same mileage as a Chevelle. 2 distributors with 3 sets of points. What a mess, but loved the way it ran. Had that boxy 4dr, terrible aerodynamics, up to 115 one night in calm air when it started getting squirrelly. Still had plenty of throttle left, but I backed out of it. Speedometer went to 135 mph and I think it could get close in an aerodynamically stable car. Limitless rpm’s.
I still think that all the problems can be resolved and that rotaries are the future.
Scotty can let more than a few days go by without XYZ "Shocks the Entire Car Industry"
I noticed in the video you mixed up the liquid piston engine with the Wankle engine , I think the liquid piston engine engine is a much better design .
Always interested in rotary engine developments. It is true that fuel consumption was 20-25% higher in 87 RX-7 compared to 84 Honda Accord driven over the same route.
Very neat video.
One of the graphics you showed was actually a LiquidPiston engine instead of a wankel, though that's actually an engine I'd love to see in a commercial vehicle some day.
Truly, I humbly believe it is an amazing engine.
It is interesting to see that you include pictures of the Liquid Piston rotary engine. That's a different company.
Scotty, what about running the rotary on CNG ?
23 y/o in 1929: I will create an engine.
33 y/o today: i am offended because you misinterpreted the 7th of my genders.
Give Liquid Pison some credit for their oval rotor in a three lobed chamber
Thank you Scotty. I bought a 74 RX4 in 78 right out of high-school. Fun car. Ended up blowing the apex seals, my own fault and bought a core. Kept it going until the frame rusted. Then on to an 85 RX7. Fun car.
Rotary engines are an excellent example of a neat idea in theory that does not pan out in reality. "The Devil is in the details."
Has anyone seen the 12-rotor version that was just rebuilt on one of the YT channels? I don't know if they have fired it up yet or not. It is 3 banks of four rotors
yeah thats the 12 rotor that was in the video it's getting rebuilt by Rod Dahm theres stuff on his channel about it
The biggest problem with them was people not running them at high RPM.
My first car was an RX7. It was so fun. Seemed to hug corners like it would never let go. Of the line I'd be in 1st while the other guy had already shifted to 3rd! Fun little treat to have had.
I had a 1986 Mazda Rx-7, loved that car, never had any issues with it !
Scotty doesn’t know anything about wankel rotaries
While I appreciate the support given to the rotary, there are SO MANY things wrong in the text and graphics of this video that I don’t know where to start!
If you want more info on the 12 rotor boat engine, search for Rob Dahm’s channel.
Oh, and that beauty of a red car teased during the speculation about the return of a Mazda rotary sports car? …that’s the RX VISION prototype from almost a DECADE ago.
N/A Rotary durability is better than turbocharged ones.
Buttheads often blow seals by brainless dialing up the boost.
It is a racing oriented engine that Mazda should have never advertised it as a passenger car. You are recommended to redline the rotary engine at least once per drive to burn away excess carbon deposits.
Thank you for all you do Scotty 👏 👏 👏
"A redline per day keeps the mechanic away"
That multiple Rotary chamber boat engine reminds me of the Napier deltic engine. Wich had amazing weight to horsepower ratio. it also had a very complicated setup.
I have an 82 RX-7 with just over 70k miles. Runs like a champ. It’s a completely different feeling car to drive - I could drive all the way to work in third gear. In fact, on back roads, I almost never use fourth (and never fifth). Down shifting is a very different experience as well because it’s so smooth and happy at high RPMs. Super fun little car and I always loved the first gen style.
The aircraft rotary and the vehicle rotary have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with each other.
I had a rx3 and rx4 back in the day love them because the y where different from regular engines. I love for bring the rotary engines back.🙂
Back in the mid-80s, I think more RX-7s were sold because of how very cool the look was rather than the rotary engine, but I could be wrong. Anyway, I remember test driving one back in 1984 or so and the sales guy invited me to punch it and test its power. Wow, was that cool.
Speaking as the Car Industry, I was not shocked.
As an airplane buff I need to make a correction. A rotary engine has the cylinders and the crankcase rotate around a FIXED crankshaft, with the propeller being driven by the engine crankcase. A Wankel engine is not a rotary engine.
I hope Mazda does produce another Rotary Engine car. I will buy one! I’ve owned my 83 rx7 for 27 years! Driving a Rotary powered car is like nothing else it’s so fun. A ported and or turbo Rotary is just RAW power!
Rotary engines are reliable if you look after them, majority of people don't. The engine fires every stroke, its an engine for sports cars, not everyday driving. Personally i blame buyers for not knowing what they are buying
Oh and they run great on hydrogen and unlike petrol don't wash out the oil.
I had a Mazda RX-2 with a standard manual five speed. I got through the gas shortages during the seventies, but I wouldn’t be in one of those cars at my age. I was in my twenties, so at that time I didn’t think I was going to die 😂
They never came with a 5 speed, only a three speed automatic or 4 speed manual.
i had a mazda rx3 rotory engine in a motorcycle back in the '80's, it was called the rotor motor~ It only had one gear, direct drive through a belt to a chain drive. sounded like a vw taking off, around 3000 rpm however, the horsepower started taking a verical accelleration curve and it produced more hp & torque the faster it spun! Crazy fast and powerful bike~ I have photos
Scotty, There is a reason you have almost 8 million subscribers. Such a well done video and I can see the amount of work you put into this. Very informative....When I was in High School in the late 70's my dad was a Mazda dealer and he allowed me to buy a 1972 RX 2 car and had his mechanic build me a supped up RX 4 engine (I don't understand how you could sup one up but it ran real good in that little RX2 body) The funny part is every time I tried to be real quiet coming in late on the weekend I would get all the way into the house and BOOOM!!!!! You guessed it a backfire that would always wake my dad up, it was like his own little alarm clock, that danged car would rat me out every time. Good memories thanks for explaining how this happened.
Expansion chambers could be used to address the unhurt fuel mix entering the exhaust system in a similar way to two stroke engines where a shock wave is used to force the mix back through the exhaust port before it is closed for the next cycle.
Hopefully someday the Wankel engine will be long lasting engine, the amount of hp per displacement without any forced induction is quite amazing. The happy benefits of E85 no benzene, no toluene, no xylene. Much lower amounts of PM2.5, PM10, CO,HC, NOX emissions than gas and diesel.
The Mazda Skyactive designs impress me more. Both on paper and from my ownership of a 2017 Mazda 3.
I thiught you were leading up to talking about the new Mazda inline 6 Skyactive motor released in the CX90 so far.
Mazda being the only company releasing a new in line six after recognising the superior qualities compared to a V6.
Yes, definitely excited to see a comeback. Been a fan of the rx7. I can't say the same for owning one though, I'll leave it to the bottomless pocket modders to do that. But it's exciting to see what people will do with this new rotary.
It's cheaper if you do the work yourself, only rich people own slave mechanics.
Some of the pictures you showed were actually the working of the liquid piston engine, which is the successor to the rotary engine and is aimed at solving its inherent flaws.
Rob Dahm has that 12 rotor now. He is gonna work his magic with it......
Ex mazda dealership tech here. I loved the RX-7's did many core changes. It really was a sweet little car. Very smooth running engine little to no vibration.
When it comes to driving anything with a rotary engine in it, u should use 2 cycle mix in ur gas tank to get longer times between each engine rebuild and I would love to get one of those new Mazda’s and tear the rotary out of it and put it in something else
I got 5 minutes into the video and decided I'd never own a rotary engine.
Be cool to see one in the MX5 Miata..
Diesel is the absolute best there is no negotiation longevity durability efficiency and lower maintenance so of course the system attacks it trying to destroy it
It seems like every single day one of the car companies is shocking the whole industry. I'm shocked when a day goes by when there isn't a shocking announcement. 😀 😄
Hi Scotty my understanding of the fuel consumption issue is that the rotary uses an exceptionally rich mixture during warm up as a result of quenching due to the surface area of the combustion chamber. Having owned and enjoyed two RX8 231,s. I can state that an engine in fully warmed state, although not on a par with conventional piston engines, does return over 35 mpg imperial which for a 2.6 L gasoline we may have the 1.3 / 2.6 argument here! Is not so bad. Look forward to Mazda developing the rotary further.