@daranphilipson1025 and this is the only time in the history of the game it has been given? I wonder what the explanation is for all the others that were not given!
Simon Jordan: “If it’s replicated at people’s feet it’s a penalty” Arsenal game, vs Aston Villa LY. Gabriel Jesus controls ball in area, defender kicks through Gabriel’s controlling leg. No pen. Liverpool Everton game a few seasons ago. Van Djik goes to kick the ball from a corner. Everton goalie goes to close Van Djik down. VVD kicks ball onto GK, GK follows through and breaks VVD’s leg… no pen. Could go on. But in short, Jim and Jordan are waffling, AS NORMAL.
@@seltonk5136Probably because you didn't speak to anyone or only make comments and watch videos that fit your bias. I was fully in support of LFC for that decision. Don't make assumptions that make you look like a muppet. Any good football fan is against bad refereeing regardless of who it is, as it affects all of our clubs and ruins the league.
@@seltonk5136do you think Arsenal fans would have supported Spurs in that scenario? That’s a really dumb comment there lad. You a secret Lonsdale pitch invader lad ?
@@virtualcity721he wasn’t in control of the ball though… he flicked it up and hadn’t a clue where it was. Basically Saliba (and Arsenal) were punished because the defender carried on playing rather than throwing himself to the floor like he’d been taken out by a sniper. Pedro got up immediately after pen was given and was totally fine to slot it home. He was rewarded for cheating and Saliba punished for trying to carry on. You’re either a Brighton fan or simply hate Arsenal that’s all
Danny Murphy wiped the floor with the other two especially at the end with Jim's fake laugh to cover his poor argument. Never been given as a pen before so why now all of a sudden?!
As an Arsenal fan the biggest thing that irks us if that we feel we’re being punished for things we watch happen in other games that aren’t. Trossard and Rice sent off for kicking the ball away when we watch multiple players do it every single game who don’t get booked or sent off. Martinelli’s double yellow a few years back. Penalty given for a clash of heads when Gordon has his nose broken the same gameweek and nothing is given. If a clash of heads is a penalty then you have to give penalties for every one. Same for kicking the ball away, every incident has to be a yellow or none can be. You can’t just leave it down to the ref to interpret. Get all the refs in a room and say this is a penalty, this is a foul 100% of the time. Same thing with handball. De Ligt concedes a penalty one game then Ait-Nouri commits arguably a worse offence and no penalty is given. They just open themselves up constantly for scrutiny.
@ right because Arsenal are the only team that do that obviously and clearly us time wasting justifies us being treated differently to the rest of the league then?
@@ItsAv3rageGamer they aren’t the only ones that do it but they do it the most. Can’t complain about bookings for time wasting if you constantly time waste. Nwaneri got booked for time wasting in the first half of a game recently. That’s embarrassing for a “big” club
@@ItsAv3rageGamer well it factually is true because Arsenal have more bookings for time wasting than any other premier league team this season. Man City have 3. Arsenal take 30.7 seconds to get the ball back in play at dead ball situations. That’s 4th highest in the league. City take 25.2, which is the 2nd lowest. Arsenal also take 47.9 seconds to take a corner, no other team takes more than 38.1. That’s a huge difference. So yes, Arsenal are the worst when you add everything together.
Reminds me of when Martinelli got two yellows in the same play. The week after never happened again just a bullshit referee decision that hides behind "law of the game". Refs can never fail its either that or "not clear and obvious". There is no standard for refs.
@@trevorsaunders580 You're missing Danny's point. Let's make it easy, I've been watching footy on TV and in the grounds since before the PL. Tell me one time where an accidental clash of heads anywhere on the pitch has resulted in a foul being given. In fact let's just since the PL started, just point to me one time? that's the fundamental question Jim and Simon was trying to get around.
@ezigwe I can understand when two players clash heads accidently when going for the ball at a corner, one an attempt on goal, the other attempting to clear the ball, and have seen that plenty of times, even players on the same side have clashed heads, because they'r e just watching the ball. But Pedro wasn't having an attempt on goal, he's was heading the ball into an area he may have hoped to then got an attempt on goal, or he may have hoped another Brighton player may have received the ball. What the difference between kicking someone's foot because he just beat you to the ball in the area, to hitting someone's head for the same reason.
@@trevorsaunders580 Your first 80% of your reply , with all the different scenarios is irrelevant in that including the Pedro scenario it boils down to two players going for the same ball, that simple, all your variations not going single out the Pedro situation as a special case. However, there is a truth to your last 20% there is no difference between foot and head, my point and Danny's I think is why now. Why punish a team now for the FIRST TIME EVER when no fouls have been previously issued for a clash of heads for decades. That's the issue that you still have haven't answered. The most famous incident David Luiz forehead fracturing Jiménez head. My question to you is was a foul given for what I would say was a much more nasty contact?
@ezigwe I believe the different scenarios are relevant, a accidental clash directly from a corner I accept is different. But to me Pedro was trying to control the ball. The Monday before Pedro had a penalty awarded against him because he caught a Villa player's foot attempting to clear the ball, now if it was the other players leg or any other part of his body, I would accept it, but it was his foot, simply because he got there a split second sooner. But I have to be honest I don't know what is right or wrong these days, in the the Spurs game Newcastle's first goal should have been disallowed for handball, but they said his hand wasn't away from his body, it didn't have to be. I honestly believe that if my team had scored a similar goal, I would understand if it was disallowed, I would be more surprised if it was given.
If they compare it to the foot.....then it's the same reason arsenal didn't get a penalty against Everton because Partey was wiped out in the box but because the defender touched the ball, it wasn't a Pen......these guys are ridiculous at times
Jim white lives rent free in Simon's back side. Never seen them disagree in the favour of arsenal yet I've seen rival supporters call out bad refereeing. If a player touches the ball with his feet and they collide as long as he touches the ball it's not a pen.
The reason Webbs explanation makes no sense is because after watching the epl and e 1st Div for nearly 60yrs, I have never seen it given before. Howard is making it up as he goes and simple Simon nods his head.
If a referee gave that penalty in the champions league final, that would be the end of him. Only happens with busy body English refs that want to make headlines
The point Danny is trying to make is if it's a headbutt, he would be sent off for violent conduct, but because the peno is giving for a head clash that has never been done before if Saliba did go down holding his head as well they can't give a peno
If both players go for the ball how is the player supposed back out mid air, football is just getting more stupid, so are defenders supposed to stop defending and trying to win the ball incase a penalty is given now?
Let’s see how many more Arsenal firsts there will be this year in refereeing decisions? You can say it’s a foul and also say it’s a foul that has never been given as a penalty up until now! Gabriel was tripped in the box it’s a foul but not given. I think all fans are asking for is consistency so we can have an entertaining league title race!
This is a perfect example of expert option (who played football) against click bate idiots. So, based on this explanation, defenders will not attempt a cross out of fear of their head hitting the opposition… idiots! To compare against feet? What is the example where this is compatible? Sol Cambell against Rooney?
Reference to Charles Hawtrey by Jordan and White laughing at it, highlights who is living in the past in this discussion. If it was a foul, the player frantically rolling around on the ground - why was he not at least taken off for concussion check?
It’s never been a penalty before, so why is it a penalty now? Ans: It’s Arsenal. What will happen GOING FORWARD when there is a corner kick and a defender clashes head with an attacker after the baller has been flicked on? I need all those to be penalties now.
Saliba never took his eyes off the ball for one second, surely it’s about intent. No common sense applied yet again. That’s what frustrates supporters.
Dannys calling it a 50/50 though, or never seen a 50/50 head clash given! However if a player is in control of the ball as pedro flicked it up for himself then its no longer really a 50/50 is it, its a challenge from Saliba and thats a big difference compared to say a cross where both players are challenging for the ball!......maybe it was the balls fault and the type of ball they were using Mikel!!
50/50 implies before any of them made contact, no one was in absolute control. After a player touches the ball, it possibly stops being a 50/50 but that isn’t the argument. The argument of 50/50 is to explain the intention of both players to go with full dedication for the ball initially. Hope this helps your understanding.
Be interesting if Talksport did a poll on whether football fans were generally happy with the standard of referring in the Premier League including VAR Be interesting to hear from people who are not happy and the reasons why. Fans calling out other fans for moaning about decisions that go against their team only to do it themselves is the main reason for inept refereeing. Playing badly and bad refereeing are two completely different things.
Danny you are spot on. Second time this season wgere arsenal is used as a president for a ruke that will be changed after realising that is ridiculous. First with the kicking away of the ball now when two players have a head collision. Everyone knows that head collisions are different from using the legs.
Every time 2 players go for the same ball 1 gets there first, it's impossible for the 2nd player to come to a full stop. I can't see that as a foul or every tackle that fails is a free kick. The game would never flow. VAR and the rule makers are absolutely killing the game.
What’s missing in this discusion is the assumption of control that a player has when they are fouled. Generally fouls happen when a player has the ball at their feet and therefore they are assumed to be in control of the ball and the foul prevents them maintaining this control. The question comes down to whether or not a player can be assumed to have control of the ball with their head? If so, it’s a foul. If not, them its a clash of heads
You can watch the replay. Pedro and saliba try to head a ball, Pedro headed it first, but saliba attempt only brushes the ball and then collided with Pedro head. Penalty is awarded for Pedro.
@@dagmawimoges4732did you say Saliba tried to head the ball ? So you’re saying he didn’t deliberately head Pedro ? So if two players genuinely go for a ball at the same time with their head and one gets there fractionally before the other it’s not a clash of heads when nobody can remember these type of incidents given as fouls/penalties in their living memory before your saying it’s a foul and a pen ? 😂
I think you misunderstood head clash. Head clash is coming together of two player's heads that genuinely go for a ball, irrespective of who gets the ball first. It has never been a foul so far. Since no one has argued saliba intention was to deliberately headbutt Pedro, it is head clash and no penalty. Simple!
@@hughzarie1860 there is atleast 10 incidents of clashes of heads in the box every season and not once has a penalty been given.. only time a penalty is given is when one player goes for the ball with their foot and the other with their head and if the head and foot collide then the decision is given in the favour of the person that was heading the ball but I’ve never seen a penalty given for a clash of heads in all the years I’ve watched the prem
I'm with Danny Murphy here. The game is stopped often due to clash of heads. The game doesn't often restart as a free kick but rather a drop ball to whom was in possession at the time of the stoppage. Now they've given the penalty, referees will have to pick a side with every collision of heads.
The laws are subjective. The problem with the show and Howard Webb is that he is always trying to use the subjectivity in the laws to defend the referees decision, rather than using precedence and past interpretations to judge them. If you look at the laws, you can justify a penalty. Same as when Rice got sent off, or Trossard got sent off. The letter of the law gives the referee the opportunity to call a penalty, or send the players off. But is that what typically happens? Head clashes like this occur in the box many times every game week and never gets given as a penalty or even a foul. We've seen countless players kick the ball away and not get given a yellow card. The referee uses their discretion. This is why there is always conflicting views - people that read the laws and agree have one point, whilst people that watch the game and want consistency have a point. Whilst this CAN be given as a penalty by the laws, it consistently NOT been given as a penalty over the history of the game. So are we going by the laws or are we going by the interpretation that we've followed for all these years? If we're going by the laws - it's a penalty. But we always go by the interpretation that we've always follow, then it's not a penalty.
9:15 Kulusevski isnt the argument, its this one. And this is exactly why Arsenal fans complain, nobody wants to talk about other circumstances for reasons
They are living in past. Time has moved. Pedro had control of the ball and siliba headed him. It's nonsense to say a clash of heads is not a penalty. You have to look at the context of the play. Otherwise players will just go around headbutting each other in the pen area.
It's nonsense to say a clash of heads is not a penalty but this is the first time it is given🤔 Time has moved? Ok, then I expect every clash of heads from now on to be given as a foul. Will it happen? Ofcourse not, you will nevere see that again.
Contact to the head and high kicks have never been automatically okay because you caught ball. When the leg/foot is low, yes, you get a strong benefit of the doubt if you touch ball. Bring that foot 12 inches off the ground or higher and higher, and the chance the referee whistles goes up and up. That is not new.
That’s Jim and Simon on the pay roll as well , if Pedro touches the ball on to salibas foot with his foot then theirs contact it’s not a pen because saliba touched the ball first so what’s the difference if it’s the head, he still touched the ball before contact
From the argument, you can tell who has and has never played the game. Jim and Jordan are only on the side of the refs not being criticised and not actually if their decision for that particular incident was right or wrong. Jordan at some point made mention of Pedro going down. If Saliba had gone down and made it look like a clash of heads, would he be saying the same? These pundits don't know anything about the rules.
So much inconsistencies with officiating in premier league. What one referee will give as penalty, the other will overlook. It is according to their whim and caprices.
People keep looking at it as a simple later challenge comparable with when the ball is on the floor with slide tackles and trips. It is different because it is a header. When the ball is on the floor a player can have full control of it. With headers no player is ever in FULL control of the ball. Even the player who wins the header is not in control of the ball. For a header you leave the floor and you naturally have less control over your movement and make deflecting contact with the ball. That is why it is different. All head clashes are mistimed attempts at the ball and not everyone in a headclash goes to ground. People who want penalties will fake pain to get an advantage. Others deal with the discomfort. Big clashes leave people hurt and sometimes one more than the other. Penalties and free kicks need to be brought back to intention and impeding.
Danny was spot on. He gave the decision for a clash of heads in the box. He also delayed befor given the decision. Now if he thoight it was a injury why did he not go to check of juao pedro was okay or call for the physios to come on seen how it was a head collision. Weve seen head collisions happen on the pitch. The ref plays on, the player stays down and then the ref will pull it back if the players down for to long to go and check on the player. That didnt even happen in this case. He gave a penalty, VAR confirmed the decision within 5 seconds and thats that so danny is completely right and schooled jim and simon 😂
Whether it is a penalty, or not. Why is there so much inconsistency. If the same incident had happened outside the area then the likelihood is that play would have continued until Taylor had deemed that the player downed would require medical attention. Then a restart with a drop ball. There is too much inconsistency with the refereeing in the premiership
It's a penalty because Pedro went down and Saliba didn't when in other cases of head clashes both players have gone down? There's definitely no other possible explanation, like maybe the head contact was minimal and Pedro went down over dramatically knowing he was in the box, certainly not. Footballers never try draw a call from the ref by overreacting.
Saliba didn’t even flinch because the contact was so minimal. Pedro has clearly taken the cheating option of collapsing to the floor supposedly in agony only to be up seconds later to take the pen. He didn’t even need concussion protocol because he was faking it. If there had been significant impact in exactly the same way but away from the penalty area a foul would never have been given so why is there a difference?
We are now at a point in this sport where rather than call out the ridiculousness of a decision we are instead arguing about 'letter of the law'...if it is the letter of the law then when was this law made? A clash of heads equalling a pen is a new one to me!
In the history of football has anyone ever seen a penalty for a clash of heads? They now expect a player to pull out of headers when they are already in the air. 😅😂
In any and every clash of heads (anywhere on the pitch), one player gets to the ball first. The other players gets to the head. If both players get to the ball at the same time, it is impossible for there to be a clash of heads. It is barely a small touch to the head. If it was a heavy touch, Saliba would have gone down. However, Pedro did and rolled on the floor like he had been shot, only to jump back up to takenthe pen. If he was that injured, why didnt he have the mandatory 30 seconds on the sideline for assessment? He was never hurt with that clash of head just like Saliba wasn't. This was the.most ridiculous decision in a long time; a first just like Danny said, and it will most likely be the last.
He silenced the room with "every head clash is miss-timed." The look on their faces when they actually realised he was right!!
Never played football so they are just clueless
The head clash was instigated by Saliba, yes it was accidental however it was still a foul, it was a definite penalty, correct decision.
Every pen is a misplaced tackle, misplaced handball, and usually accidental in nature, still penalties
@@Thepenaltyboxfootballbut a (mistimed/accidental) clash of heads in the box has never been a pen before, so why on this occasion?
@daranphilipson1025 and this is the only time in the history of the game it has been given? I wonder what the explanation is for all the others that were not given!
Howard Webb could say the earth is flat and Jim and Simon would agree with him
Lool soo true
Simon Jordan: “If it’s replicated at people’s feet it’s a penalty”
Arsenal game, vs Aston Villa LY. Gabriel Jesus controls ball in area, defender kicks through Gabriel’s controlling leg. No pen.
Liverpool Everton game a few seasons ago. Van Djik goes to kick the ball from a corner. Everton goalie goes to close Van Djik down. VVD kicks ball onto GK, GK follows through and breaks VVD’s leg… no pen.
Could go on. But in short, Jim and Jordan are waffling, AS NORMAL.
When it is Arsenal, there are always explanations. They make me sick.
If it's Arsenal then it's "the letter of the law", if it's another team there will be always an explanation why it wasn't anything. Period.
Exactly!
I remember how upset you were over Spurs LFC crime last season. Wait. I don't .
@@seltonk5136Probably because you didn't speak to anyone or only make comments and watch videos that fit your bias. I was fully in support of LFC for that decision. Don't make assumptions that make you look like a muppet. Any good football fan is against bad refereeing regardless of who it is, as it affects all of our clubs and ruins the league.
@@seltonk5136do you think Arsenal fans would have supported Spurs in that scenario?
That’s a really dumb comment there lad.
You a secret Lonsdale pitch invader lad ?
That's the fact, when it is Arsenal, they find arguments to punish. When it is not Arsenal, they find reasons not to give it
They will say anything to justify a unique decision against arsenal. I mist say as a rival i find this hillarious 😂
At least you can see it.
They all hate Arsenal.
They cannot answer Danny Murphy’s questions 🤣 Jim and Jordan schooled here
Danny had a smug look on him 😂
Pedro was in control of the ball, what's more to explain? you are clearly Arsenal bias or anti Liverpool making it hard to see the simple truth
@@virtualcity721get your medication your confused
@@virtualcity721he wasn’t in control of the ball though… he flicked it up and hadn’t a clue where it was. Basically Saliba (and Arsenal) were punished because the defender carried on playing rather than throwing himself to the floor like he’d been taken out by a sniper. Pedro got up immediately after pen was given and was totally fine to slot it home. He was rewarded for cheating and Saliba punished for trying to carry on. You’re either a Brighton fan or simply hate Arsenal that’s all
No one goes intentionally to head someone head ,they all jumps for the ball at once
Danny Murphy wiped the floor with the other two especially at the end with Jim's fake laugh to cover his poor argument. Never been given as a pen before so why now all of a sudden?!
Murphy has a great and valid point. “ Does any player intentionally go to head another player”? Enough said. Outrageous decision
Zidane did 😂😂 but other than that anomaly no
Jim stop protecting poor referees all the time. It’s starting to bug me. Not an arsenal fan.
Well said
As an Arsenal fan the biggest thing that irks us if that we feel we’re being punished for things we watch happen in other games that aren’t. Trossard and Rice sent off for kicking the ball away when we watch multiple players do it every single game who don’t get booked or sent off. Martinelli’s double yellow a few years back. Penalty given for a clash of heads when Gordon has his nose broken the same gameweek and nothing is given. If a clash of heads is a penalty then you have to give penalties for every one. Same for kicking the ball away, every incident has to be a yellow or none can be. You can’t just leave it down to the ref to interpret. Get all the refs in a room and say this is a penalty, this is a foul 100% of the time. Same thing with handball. De Ligt concedes a penalty one game then Ait-Nouri commits arguably a worse offence and no penalty is given. They just open themselves up constantly for scrutiny.
Maybe if your team stopped resorting to time wasting and feigning injuries all the time then maybe you would get better treatment.
@ right because Arsenal are the only team that do that obviously and clearly us time wasting justifies us being treated differently to the rest of the league then?
@@ItsAv3rageGamer they aren’t the only ones that do it but they do it the most. Can’t complain about bookings for time wasting if you constantly time waste. Nwaneri got booked for time wasting in the first half of a game recently. That’s embarrassing for a “big” club
@ I mean it’s factually not true that Arsenal waste the most time, City take the longest on goal kicks btw but because it’s not Arsenal no one cares.
@@ItsAv3rageGamer well it factually is true because Arsenal have more bookings for time wasting than any other premier league team this season. Man City have 3. Arsenal take 30.7 seconds to get the ball back in play at dead ball situations. That’s 4th highest in the league. City take 25.2, which is the 2nd lowest. Arsenal also take 47.9 seconds to take a corner, no other team takes more than 38.1. That’s a huge difference. So yes, Arsenal are the worst when you add everything together.
Simon Jordan's opinion on this is more informed by his dislike of Keown than anything else lol. The guy lives rent free in his head.
Who doesn't live rent free in his head? He's got a problem with everyone.
Keown is a deluded biased melt though! You can’t deny that!
@@arranmelaugh5606 Absolutely. The only reason I like him is that he winds Simon up so much without even trying. Its hilarious.
@@arranmelaugh5606And you are a foul smelling piglet
Absolute bonkers from Simon and Jim, don't know what else to say. Murphy has more sense than both of them put together.
The fact remains that we will never see that kind of a penalty ever again this season trust me. And we will see alot of clash of heads
Lol where do u see clash of head???? It was saliba who headed pedro.
When was the last time we seen a clash of heads in the box and a pen wasn't given? It's a rare occurance
The fact remains that assna fans will always be the most deluded. 😂
@sunepba Saliba went to head the flipping ball....eitherways, it is what it is....let's see when this ever happens to another team
@@sunepbaon purpose ?
2 schoolgirls talking to an adult
It would be great if once in a while they would listen to answers instead of talking over them.
Why bother listening when the ultimate objective is to agree with the referee's?
@@roddymackellar5481 If they listened they'd have acknowledge Murphy has a point
Velocity in the "headbutt"? He was up in 10 seconds ready to take the pen
😂😂
Irrelevant.
@@Mberrybb "Irrelevant" maybe to the decision, but not to Simon's comment
😂😂😂
A real head but gives you a concussion
Reminds me of when Martinelli got two yellows in the same play. The week after never happened again just a bullshit referee decision that hides behind "law of the game". Refs can never fail its either that or "not clear and obvious". There is no standard for refs.
Both Simon and Jim trying their best to ignore Danny's key point. Why is an incident that happens every week for years a penalty all of a sudden.
But it doesn't happen every week does it, because there's a lot of people saying they've never seen before.
@@trevorsaunders580 You're missing Danny's point.
Let's make it easy, I've been watching footy on TV and in the grounds since before the PL. Tell me one time where an accidental clash of heads anywhere on the pitch has resulted in a foul being given. In fact let's just since the PL started, just point to me one time? that's the fundamental question Jim and Simon was trying to get around.
@ezigwe I can understand when two players clash heads accidently when going for the ball at a corner, one an attempt on goal, the other attempting to clear the ball, and have seen that plenty of times, even players on the same side have clashed heads, because they'r e just watching the ball. But Pedro wasn't having an attempt on goal, he's was heading the ball into an area he may have hoped to then got an attempt on goal, or he may have hoped another Brighton player may have received the ball. What the difference between kicking someone's foot because he just beat you to the ball in the area, to hitting someone's head for the same reason.
@@trevorsaunders580 Your first 80% of your reply , with all the different scenarios is irrelevant in that including the Pedro scenario it boils down to two players going for the same ball, that simple, all your variations not going single out the Pedro situation as a special case.
However, there is a truth to your last 20% there is no difference between foot and head, my point and Danny's I think is why now. Why punish a team now for the FIRST TIME EVER when no fouls have been previously issued for a clash of heads for decades. That's the issue that you still have haven't answered. The most famous incident David Luiz forehead fracturing Jiménez head. My question to you is was a foul given for what I would say was a much more nasty contact?
@ezigwe I believe the different scenarios are relevant, a accidental clash directly from a corner I accept is different. But to me Pedro was trying to control the ball. The Monday before Pedro had a penalty awarded against him because he caught a Villa player's foot attempting to clear the ball, now if it was the other players leg or any other part of his body, I would accept it, but it was his foot, simply because he got there a split second sooner. But I have to be honest I don't know what is right or wrong these days, in the the Spurs game Newcastle's first goal should have been disallowed for handball, but they said his hand wasn't away from his body, it didn't have to be. I honestly believe that if my team had scored a similar goal, I would understand if it was disallowed, I would be more surprised if it was given.
If they compare it to the foot.....then it's the same reason arsenal didn't get a penalty against Everton because Partey was wiped out in the box but because the defender touched the ball, it wasn't a Pen......these guys are ridiculous at times
Jim white lives rent free in Simon's back side. Never seen them disagree in the favour of arsenal yet I've seen rival supporters call out bad refereeing. If a player touches the ball with his feet and they collide as long as he touches the ball it's not a pen.
I’ve never seen Jim side on Arsenals side in any controversial decision. Never
The reason Webbs explanation makes no sense is because after watching the epl and e 1st Div for nearly 60yrs, I have never seen it given before.
Howard is making it up as he goes and simple Simon nods his head.
Really puts me off smug White.
If a referee gave that penalty in the champions league final, that would be the end of him. Only happens with busy body English refs that want to make headlines
Arsenal did get a red in a Champions League final. Go figure.
People who have played themselves at a reasonable level doesn't understand this kind of penalty.
Thank god we have pros & ex-pros on the show talk sense.. also why is Jim talking and laughing at Danny like he’s an idiot, patronising twat.
Howard webb makes up the rules as he goes along
Danny vs two bozos
I think this is why they rarely have him on making them look silly here.
The point Danny is trying to make is if it's a headbutt, he would be sent off for violent conduct, but because the peno is giving for a head clash that has never been done before if Saliba did go down holding his head as well they can't give a peno
Danny is the only non-moron here.
“A missed tackle with the head” games gone mad! Got to be a wind up that. I think it’s missing a few words before head!
If both players go for the ball how is the player supposed back out mid air, football is just getting more stupid, so are defenders supposed to stop defending and trying to win the ball incase a penalty is given now?
Danny speaks the truth, the other two muppets have never kicked a ball
Let’s see how many more Arsenal firsts there will be this year in refereeing decisions? You can say it’s a foul and also say it’s a foul that has never been given as a penalty up until now! Gabriel was tripped in the box it’s a foul but not given. I think all fans are asking for is consistency so we can have an entertaining league title race!
It’s letter of the law time again for Arsenal
This is a perfect example of expert option (who played football) against click bate idiots. So, based on this explanation, defenders will not attempt a cross out of fear of their head hitting the opposition… idiots!
To compare against feet? What is the example where this is compatible? Sol Cambell against Rooney?
Reference to Charles Hawtrey by Jordan and White laughing at it, highlights who is living in the past in this discussion.
If it was a foul, the player frantically rolling around on the ground - why was he not at least taken off for concussion check?
It’s never been a penalty before, so why is it a penalty now? Ans: It’s Arsenal.
What will happen GOING FORWARD when there is a corner kick and a defender clashes head with an attacker after the baller has been flicked on? I need all those to be penalties now.
Some refs would give it? One ref has given it in the history of the game! Get a grip you absolute fools.
Why is it so hard for Jim and Simon to answer Danny's question
Saliba never took his eyes off the ball for one second, surely it’s about intent. No common sense applied yet again. That’s what frustrates supporters.
Danny Murphy is spot on .jim white cant hide his bias
Consistency consistency consistency that all that will matter in the end
Danny Murphy Aura in this video is spectacular 😩😂👏👏
Dannys calling it a 50/50 though, or never seen a 50/50 head clash given! However if a player is in control of the ball as pedro flicked it up for himself then its no longer really a 50/50 is it, its a challenge from Saliba and thats a big difference compared to say a cross where both players are challenging for the ball!......maybe it was the balls fault and the type of ball they were using Mikel!!
This "in control" is insane. It was in the air between two players FFS. Which is exactly what a 50/50 ball is.
50/50 implies before any of them made contact, no one was in absolute control. After a player touches the ball, it possibly stops being a 50/50 but that isn’t the argument. The argument of 50/50 is to explain the intention of both players to go with full dedication for the ball initially. Hope this helps your understanding.
Bs the ball is in the air, it is there to be won
Life comes fast at you just wait and see😅😅
Thank you danny, for heaven sakes..Finally someone says it exactly as it is.
Simón said and I quote “Saliba went to head the ball”” argument over.
The ball has touched him, he did not play it. That seems absurd
Be interesting if Talksport did a poll on whether football fans were generally happy with the standard of referring in the Premier League including VAR
Be interesting to hear from people who are not happy and the reasons why.
Fans calling out other fans for moaning about decisions that go against their team only to do it themselves is the main reason for inept refereeing.
Playing badly and bad refereeing are two completely different things.
The precise conclusion is: it’s not a bloody penalty
They’ve never played the game. A collision in the air is different to a collision on the floor. Comparing to different things.
Danny you are spot on. Second time this season wgere arsenal is used as a president for a ruke that will be changed after realising that is ridiculous.
First with the kicking away of the ball now when two players have a head collision.
Everyone knows that head collisions are different from using the legs.
Every time 2 players go for the same ball 1 gets there first, it's impossible for the 2nd player to come to a full stop. I can't see that as a foul or every tackle that fails is a free kick. The game would never flow. VAR and the rule makers are absolutely killing the game.
Lads tho have you not noticed Arsenal are most of the time involved in these controversial discussions, you don't tackle with your head
Sir Simon & Murphy = Top LADS Proper Clobbers 💯 Facts
So would the Brighton player have been booked if it was the other way round
Danny's question of do players ever intentionally headbutt an opponent is ridiculous, of course they do
This is dumb. When a player heads the ball outside the box and the player heads his head it’s a foul outside the box. Let’s not be dumb here
How many times have you seen a striker get a shot away and be clattered result in a penalty? It ain't often if at all.
If they wanna follow the rules, then do it EVERY GAME. Not just once in a blue moon.
Dan Murphy composure during the discussion admirable, other two were childish
What’s missing in this discusion is the assumption of control that a player has when they are fouled.
Generally fouls happen when a player has the ball at their feet and therefore they are assumed to be in control of the ball and the foul prevents them maintaining this control.
The question comes down to whether or not a player can be assumed to have control of the ball with their head? If so, it’s a foul.
If not, them its a clash of heads
happens at every corner none is given
They keep on evolving their standards when it come to Arsenal.
I don't understand this debate. Pedro flicked the ball up to head it and go around Saliba. You can't call a 50 50 on a ball one player has control of.
You can watch the replay. Pedro and saliba try to head a ball, Pedro headed it first, but saliba attempt only brushes the ball and then collided with Pedro head. Penalty is awarded for Pedro.
@@dagmawimoges4732did you say Saliba tried to head the ball ? So you’re saying he didn’t deliberately head Pedro ?
So if two players genuinely go for a ball at the same time with their head and one gets there fractionally before the other it’s not a clash of heads when nobody can remember these type of incidents given as fouls/penalties in their living memory before your saying it’s a foul and a pen ?
😂
I think you misunderstood head clash. Head clash is coming together of two player's heads that genuinely go for a ball, irrespective of who gets the ball first. It has never been a foul so far. Since no one has argued saliba intention was to deliberately headbutt Pedro, it is head clash and no penalty. Simple!
@@hughzarie1860 there is atleast 10 incidents of clashes of heads in the box every season and not once has a penalty been given.. only time a penalty is given is when one player goes for the ball with their foot and the other with their head and if the head and foot collide then the decision is given in the favour of the person that was heading the ball but I’ve never seen a penalty given for a clash of heads in all the years I’ve watched the prem
@@headshotE10 yes I know. That’s what I was addressing to the original comment.
I'm with Danny Murphy here. The game is stopped often due to clash of heads. The game doesn't often restart as a free kick but rather a drop ball to whom was in possession at the time of the stoppage. Now they've given the penalty, referees will have to pick a side with every collision of heads.
Webb has hated Arsenal since he was the 12th man for Man United as a referee. He should come out of the closet that he hates Arsenal.
If Pedro kicked the ball on to Saliba's foot and went down after contact, everyone would have said "good tackle". Why is it different for his head?
What he hasn't seen ever in his life is that leading to a penalty Simon. Hello
The laws are subjective. The problem with the show and Howard Webb is that he is always trying to use the subjectivity in the laws to defend the referees decision, rather than using precedence and past interpretations to judge them. If you look at the laws, you can justify a penalty. Same as when Rice got sent off, or Trossard got sent off.
The letter of the law gives the referee the opportunity to call a penalty, or send the players off. But is that what typically happens? Head clashes like this occur in the box many times every game week and never gets given as a penalty or even a foul. We've seen countless players kick the ball away and not get given a yellow card. The referee uses their discretion.
This is why there is always conflicting views - people that read the laws and agree have one point, whilst people that watch the game and want consistency have a point.
Whilst this CAN be given as a penalty by the laws, it consistently NOT been given as a penalty over the history of the game. So are we going by the laws or are we going by the interpretation that we've followed for all these years? If we're going by the laws - it's a penalty. But we always go by the interpretation that we've always follow, then it's not a penalty.
Lawyer in the house! 🤭
Any time a defender sticks a leg out to block a shot or pass, is he playing the ball or is the ball being played onto his leg?
9:15 Kulusevski isnt the argument, its this one. And this is exactly why Arsenal fans complain, nobody wants to talk about other circumstances for reasons
They are living in past. Time has moved. Pedro had control of the ball and siliba headed him. It's nonsense to say a clash of heads is not a penalty. You have to look at the context of the play. Otherwise players will just go around headbutting each other in the pen area.
It's nonsense to say a clash of heads is not a penalty but this is the first time it is given🤔 Time has moved? Ok, then I expect every clash of heads from now on to be given as a foul. Will it happen? Ofcourse not, you will nevere see that again.
So if you slide in the player kicks the ball off you an you contact on the player its a pen? Now ive seen that an never a pen given
Contact to the head and high kicks have never been automatically okay because you caught ball. When the leg/foot is low, yes, you get a strong benefit of the doubt if you touch ball. Bring that foot 12 inches off the ground or higher and higher, and the chance the referee whistles goes up and up.
That is not new.
That’s Jim and Simon on the pay roll as well , if Pedro touches the ball on to salibas foot with his foot then theirs contact it’s not a pen because saliba touched the ball first so what’s the difference if it’s the head, he still touched the ball before contact
Jim and Simon hasn’t played the game! They won’t understand it if you explain it million times
From the argument, you can tell who has and has never played the game. Jim and Jordan are only on the side of the refs not being criticised and not actually if their decision for that particular incident was right or wrong. Jordan at some point made mention of Pedro going down. If Saliba had gone down and made it look like a clash of heads, would he be saying the same? These pundits don't know anything about the rules.
Thank you Danny for talking sense
It’s about interpretation of the rules being wholly inconsistent.
So much inconsistencies with officiating in premier league. What one referee will give as penalty, the other will overlook. It is according to their whim and caprices.
People keep looking at it as a simple later challenge comparable with when the ball is on the floor with slide tackles and trips.
It is different because it is a header. When the ball is on the floor a player can have full control of it. With headers no player is ever in FULL control of the ball. Even the player who wins the header is not in control of the ball.
For a header you leave the floor and you naturally have less control over your movement and make deflecting contact with the ball. That is why it is different. All head clashes are mistimed attempts at the ball and not everyone in a headclash goes to ground. People who want penalties will fake pain to get an advantage. Others deal with the discomfort. Big clashes leave people hurt and sometimes one more than the other.
Penalties and free kicks need to be brought back to intention and impeding.
Danny was spot on. He gave the decision for a clash of heads in the box. He also delayed befor given the decision. Now if he thoight it was a injury why did he not go to check of juao pedro was okay or call for the physios to come on seen how it was a head collision. Weve seen head collisions happen on the pitch. The ref plays on, the player stays down and then the ref will pull it back if the players down for to long to go and check on the player. That didnt even happen in this case. He gave a penalty, VAR confirmed the decision within 5 seconds and thats that so danny is completely right and schooled jim and simon 😂
Are Jim and Simon just being facetious here or what?
They still couldn't answer Danny's question omg . Thats why they pivoted to the feet argument.
Whether it is a penalty, or not. Why is there so much inconsistency. If the same incident had happened outside the area then the likelihood is that play would have continued until Taylor had deemed that the player downed would require medical attention. Then a restart with a drop ball. There is too much inconsistency with the refereeing in the premiership
It's a penalty because Pedro went down and Saliba didn't when in other cases of head clashes both players have gone down? There's definitely no other possible explanation, like maybe the head contact was minimal and Pedro went down over dramatically knowing he was in the box, certainly not. Footballers never try draw a call from the ref by overreacting.
Yeah Danny is wrong, a foul is a foul whether intentional or not.
Saliba didn’t even flinch because the contact was so minimal. Pedro has clearly taken the cheating option of collapsing to the floor supposedly in agony only to be up seconds later to take the pen. He didn’t even need concussion protocol because he was faking it. If there had been significant impact in exactly the same way but away from the penalty area a foul would never have been given so why is there a difference?
Murphy giving them free education 😂😂😂😂
We are now at a point in this sport where rather than call out the ridiculousness of a decision we are instead arguing about 'letter of the law'...if it is the letter of the law then when was this law made? A clash of heads equalling a pen is a new one to me!
8:00 Pedros taking advantage cool, but obviously there wasn't that much contact because Saliba didn't feel a thing.
Accidental fouls are still fouls, it was a penalty.
Someone replied to me the other day on the comments saying it should've been a red card after VAR haha
😂😂
@@AshtonBrickBazookaVernonDog Everyone is entitled to their opinion lol
@@rugbyanalyst1 😂😂 True
@@AshtonBrickBazookaVernonDog Hopefully he doesn't become a Premier League ref though
@@rugbyanalyst1 🤣🤣
It’s not enough contact to go down football is still barely a contact sport.
Murphy absolutely spot on. Has Howard Webb ever said a decision was wrong btw?
When theres a foul by feet it comes from one player not both fouls by feet arent accidental
Jordan constructing hypothetical situations to try to justify the decision tells you all you need to know. This has never happened before.
As an Arsenal fan. It's a penalty. The rules are the damn rules. I understand both sides of the argument though.
In the history of football has anyone ever seen a penalty for a clash of heads? They now expect a player to pull out of headers when they are already in the air. 😅😂
In any and every clash of heads (anywhere on the pitch), one player gets to the ball first. The other players gets to the head. If both players get to the ball at the same time, it is impossible for there to be a clash of heads.
It is barely a small touch to the head. If it was a heavy touch, Saliba would have gone down. However, Pedro did and rolled on the floor like he had been shot, only to jump back up to takenthe pen. If he was that injured, why didnt he have the mandatory 30 seconds on the sideline for assessment?
He was never hurt with that clash of head just like Saliba wasn't.
This was the.most ridiculous decision in a long time; a first just like Danny said, and it will most likely be the last.
if it happens anywhere else on the pitch its a dropped ball so how could it be a pen? Simon and Jim are miles off