What Is The FBI Hiding About Tom Messick? | Missing 411
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- Опубликовано: 27 май 2024
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Tom's on a hunting trip, and he hasn't been home in a few...years.
Back in 2022, we traveled up to Brant Lake in the beautiful Adirondack region of New York to look into the disappearance of Tom Messick, an 82 year old hunter who vanished while on a hunting trip in the area of Lily Pond. Tom was half blind, half deaf, and not known to be a wanderer, and yet when he friends and son gathered to head back to camp, he was nowhere to be seen; and while a hunter getting lost in the woods isn't anything unusual, a hunter totally vanishing from an area boxed in by well marked trails and roads within a couple of miles is a little odd. The weirdest part? The FBI showed up, and that's just not something they do for missing adults. Welcome back to The Lore Lodge...
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0:00 - Cold Open
0:20 - Introduction
4:30 - FUM ad
7:20 - The History of the Iroquois Confederacy
16:11 - The Hunting Trip
22:10 - The Search Begins
30:16 - It Gets Weirder
33:45 - The Theories
44:23 - The Supernatural Options
47:59 - Conclusion 
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My grandpa is 80 with a litany of health problems, chief among those he his rapidly losing the ability to walk unassisted. Having had to care for him since Christmas I can speak with authority that it is very believable Tom Messick would decide to go out on his own terms. I think that men who go their whole lives independent and in the lead; the "man of the house," so to speak, and then have their bodies then fail them and have to be waited on and cared for us very mentally damaging. They claw at what little independence they have left and get very frustrated and depressed when they fail. I've seen it with my own eyes. My greatest fear with my grandfather is him losing the will to live, giving up and basically choosing to pass away.
I think Tom Messick walked into that forest, found a nice tree overlooking a beautiful, quiet spot away from all the trails and touristy spots, Lay down and just gave up. It's sad, but I think that's really what happened.
As for the FBI getting involved. Well, The FBI is a little corrupt....okay it's extremely corrupt. I'll bet somebody needed to get paid and time cards needed to get punched, and Tom was an 82nd airborne vet. It looked good to the cameras. I'll bet some sheriff made a call to a buddy who got his other buddies in the FBI to come out and just take a look. Simple as.
It spins.
very well done video. loved it.
Genuine question why doesn't Fum advertise itself as a way to quit smoking? That's obviously what it's trying to do by saying it'll help you "quit your bad habits." I'm wondering if it's to appeal to a wider audience and not just people who want to quit smoking or some legality thing.
@@shi._.spiker I think it’s a legal thing
Generic comment for engagement purposes
And I'm replying for engagement purposes.
Secondary reply for engagement purposes. 👍
Same
Fourth reply for engagement purposes
6 words are required to trigger the algorythm for engagement purposes
Between this and yesterday’s Wendigoon video, FBI isn’t getting good publicity rn
The FBI gets good publicity?
When do they?
Pretty much anything you see on TV since they own all of it. Believe me, when you hear of things like Waco or Ruby ridge etc... That is good publicity compared to what they are really like which is soooooooooo much worse. @@priceyindividual2995
cant your government do anything against them? they are some kind of criminal cult, right?
@@priceyindividual2995lol they only get good publicity when the media turns a blind eye to them
The woods being silent is a massive red flag to me. I hike in my local forest a lot and if I notice it's too quiet I GTFO immediately, that's a sure sign something big is nearby
As a swede i dont even know any animals which could here make the forest quit, brown bears and wolves dont silence the birds and lynxes would make the birds even more talkative. So silence would prob mean some gas leak or worse disaster.
I live on the Welsh border, UK. We aren't supposed to have any large predators (but large cats have been sighted all over).
It was about half 10 to 11 am, beginning of August, lovely warm sunny day. Walking in the wooded area behind my place, I had that sudden silence. There were people around walking dogs etc but suddenly everything stopped. Birds, bugs, squirrels, just total silence.
It was really strange. After about 5minutes or so, sounds gradually returned. Not sure what caused it, never happened before and it felt quite creepy tbh.
Could it not just be a change in air pressure?
@@deerichardz Here in Sweden could it be in the winter a quick temperature drop which make forest silent also
@@Gripen1974 Exactly.
9 years? Thats nothing. My dad went to the corner store and disappeared for my entire childhood.
I know someone who did that to their family. Awful person and he paid for it later on.
Sad. And yet considering the man who raised me, you.might have lucked out
😅😅😅😅😅😂😂😂😂mine too.
Same mine still waiting on the cow to be born
Did he leave you a gee-tar and an empty bottle of booze?
"Dad's on a hunting trip, and he hasn't been home in a few days."
Glad you beat me to it
Love it!
im so triggered
@@softcameo "Sammy!"
*SAMMEH!!*
The dog sits by the window everyday waiting for him 😢😢😢😢 that part melted my heart.
Maybe they should have grabbed the family dog to help look for the lost man that 1st 24 hrs?
The dog would have been emotionally invested in finding a family member.
Futurama 😢
Yeah like Hatchi 😢
Welllll meet agaaaaiiin
Don't know where
Don't know WHEEEEN
That dog needs to get a life
The forest being quiet at the time is creepy as hell. That usually isn't a good sign and often means there's something in the area that has spooked the wildlife.
Yeah, my personal experiences... are that it can be random nonsense that Humans don't care about that spooked them. It can seemingly be as simple as... "the birds feel like taking a nap today." Why all thousand or so birds in the area feel like taking a nap.... good question. But.... It happens.
Also it's important to distinguish between someone familiar with an area saying "that was weird" and "that's never happened before". There's levels of strange. But I'm not 100% sure which this is.
I mean, four older men tripping through the forest after rolling up in pickup trucks is enough noise to get everything in the area to quiet down, but the noise should have picked up again after they stopped moving.
I agree and the forest noise and it would have picked up again. I live in a mountainous area in the Appalachians with a lot of old mines. Sink holes are also common here. I personally have seen holes large and small that have collapsed and opened up. Also if there was an underground collapse the animals would have scattered. It’s possible that he stepped into an area and it collapsed.
Except wildlife generally makes warning calls when a predator is nearby. Especially birds.
@@niksonrex88 they don't do that incessantly though. The more often make a warning then hide.
Nyaweh for giving a quick lesson on my people!! I'm Mohawk and Tuscarora and live in upstate NY.
I recently found your channel and rlly appreciate the history lessons you add to the beginning of your videos. Few people know much of our culture and it makes me smile to see someone so dedicated to spread our history.
Fun fact: The 6 nations aka the Haudenosaunee (most of us prefer to be referred to as the Haudenosaunee since 'Iroquois' is a French name given to us by colonizers) were joined by The Great Peace Maker. He joined each tribe to form the 6 nations and ended a long conflict. In Kanyen'kéha (the Mohawk language) we say "Skennen'kó:wa ken?" Which means 'Do you carry The Great Peace?' Referring back to how The Great Peace Maker brought peace and good to each tribe.
As I had been taught, only the Oneida had sided with the US which caused better treatment from the US gov while the Tuscarora people were forced from their homes in North Carolina area to western New York in our own form of the well known Trail of Tears.
My Mohawk ancestors come from Canada, so I can't speak on any US Mohawk lore since I'm not well familiarized with it.
Shekoli! I was coming here to also express how I really appreciate the history in the beginning of his videos! Nyaweh for that. I couldn’t have said this better myself.
Thank you for sharing!!❤
That was cool, thanks
As someone from NY. Your first mistake was to stay in Albany. No one likes that City.
Should have just made the trip to Lake George
Anywhere outside a 10mi. radius from albany really@@greglamphier4430
As a person who lives in Albany we don't even like it here
@@greglamphier4430 it was way more expensive and back then this channel made approximate $1700 a month 😅
@TheLoreLodge… that's a fair point 😬 Regardless it was a great video. Heading back up there this summer, going to make the hour drive up to Brant Lake and check it out. Love being able to feel the vibe of the town and the trails they were on. Great work, keep it going!
As someone who has done search and rescue for 14 years… occasionally on large searches… you can get a lot of people that happen to show up. I’ve seen Coast Guard, National Guard, US Military and federal agencies… the nearest Coast Guard station is 2 hours away, nearest military base 5 hours away and feds are 2 hours away. So maybe a Bored Fed that is passing through and just has nose trouble.
Exactly! Maybe the FBI want to do some training on tracking.
National Guard IS apart of the US Military..but i think i know what you mean. You are right tho..i also did SAR for many years, and people would be surprised at how many people will show up to help search sometimes.
My experience in the UK and Ireland with SAR is that plenty of people will simply turn up to try to be helpful, sometimes from a few hundred miles away. That's a long way in those countries. My conclusion is that people simply want to help
Feds love to throw themselves into anything they think is interesting. When our town had its school shooting, we had a difficult time to evacuating patients by air because the border patrol showed up and landed their helicopter on the football field we were directing the air ambulance to, and they weren't responding to radio. We don't even need a border patrol station in our town.
This part of the state is VERY sparsely populated; the State Police patrol the whole region with maybe a dozen troopers and they commonly know the name of every single person in the area. The FBI field offices in the bordering areas get super bored as well- like, they show up to “possible mass shooting” calls. It’s entirely possible that the NYSP and NYDEC put out a generic request for assistance and feds with a free afternoon showed up.
My theory on why so much Fed involvement , is that Tom served with one of the higher ups.
That would explain it.
My theory is that he was in witness protection. That explains both the FBI and homeland security. And it explains why everyone thinks the FBI is hiding something. They are.
That isn’t a theory. Theories are based on evidence. Not conjecture and random guesses.
One note, Deer drives are normally a afternoon activity. You're trying to push them out of their daytime bedding areas. So this details makes 100% sense.
"Tom Messick went on a hunting trip with some friends, he was lastbseen at 10am, when they returned they found Tom was missing and searched for him. After a few hours, they called in park rangers at 7pm. Feel like going camping Scully?"
Miss that show.
this whole channel is so x-files coded, i love it. i've watched every episode a million times, watching the lore lodge feels like a new season (but it's not crap, unlike season 8+)
It went down some but they did have some good episodes after 8 or it could just be nostalgic @@givingyoumyheartandsoul9564
82 years old, only one good eye and half deaf. How far could he have gone? No body, clothes, weapon or equipment found. Surrounded by six other fellow hunters with active communication devices. What the hell happened to this guy?
Lured into a portal or taken by a ufo or a flying cryptid.
Portal
Same planet. Different dimension
Exactly. I've watched so many weird cases from Dave Paulides. Really makes you rethink about hiking and hunting in the middle of no where by myself. Sometimes I'm 20 plus miles off the pavement and then hiking from there. I've thought about all those times and that I'm lucky. But I think about it every time I'm out there now which sucks having it in your head out there.
I'm possibly thinking it was dogman. Too many people missing in the same area.
But it could be a portal too, maybe. 🤷
I believe it's possible that Tom either wandered too far and/or went to relieve himself. Those old abandoned homesteads had wells. I even grew up drinking well water at my grandparents' house. Old wells are deathtraps.
Absolutely and with pine needles and grasses the rotten wood that would be over it would be saw dust after twenty thirty or forty years .
You wouldn’t see the well cover, if you did it would likely be because you fell in it while looking
Exactly, not to mention old bootleg holes in the coal region of the Appalachians. Many old mine shafts still remain.
Dogs didn’t pick up his scent though..
The Forrest doesn't go silent for a well.
@@user-yl4ey7cx7x
Who knows the forest was silent where he was .
There wasn’t any witnesses that I’m aware of if it was we would have known the mystery of Tom Messick
One thing I don't hear mentioned is that almost all of the eastern US forests have been cut down and replanted. It's almost all young growth, it's not the same forest that the Native Americans would've lived in before the 19th century.
37:29
That's my old man's plan. He was to go back out to the woods, and "pick a fight with a Grizzly Bear".
I did that once with a black bear at 17. Charged at it on an open road with a small pocket knife. Looking back, I realized it had 10 of the knives I was holding on its two front paws. Luckily, it ran off. Luckily.
My pop has got the same "retirement plan" as yours. Not the worst way to go I guess.
@@OnceUponReddit my brother did that with a huge deer, then realized it had knives on each part of its antlers too. he’s also lucky it ran off. 💀
@honeycrispsnail4032 Deer fight back sometimes. That wouldn't be fun. Lol
I wouldn't want to be eaten by a bear. They begin eating before you're even dead!!!😮
If Tom did indeed intend to go out on his own terms, from my third-hand knowledge of him it doesn't sound like he would leave his family perpetually wondering what happened to him.
A new Lore Lodge video AND a new Wendigoon video in the same day? Best kickoff to the weekend ever!
And yesterday we dropped one with both of us 👀
Aw..😕 it made me so sad,hearing Tom's wife describe how Tom's dog would sit in the window,all day,everyday,waiting for him to come home.
For any other aircraft nerds, the 82nd Airborne Division consists of paratroopers who would have been deployed out of C-17 Skytrains during WWII (Douglas DC-3’s repurposed for wartime)
So, a really tough character. Self reliant, skilled. Even at 82 he would know how to watch out for himself. Half blind and half deaf.
But a predator is used to silently stalking the most frail member of a group. A large hungry bear might be able to quickly take an elderly man and drag him off. Some day a hiker will find clothing scraps and bone fragments. 😢
Did you mean the C-47? I think the C-17 was introduced in the 90's
not the supernatural intro im hooked already 💀
The only problem I've heard of with Fum is a guy I know who's cat considers it a catnip stick and he can never find it if he leaves it within reach.
I’m sorry but this is so funny
I can't hear "Sasquettes " without thinking of can -can dancing Sasquatches😂😂😂❤
Yeah, like Chewbacca wearing a frilly lace wedding gown.
I really love Aidan’s supernatural references
I caught that too maybe a colab with wendigoon on it 🤔
He looks like he belongs in the show lol
@@phantomlovebsYou’re correct, but that feels like the meanest thing you could say about him
Tom was actually a settled extra-terrestrial being that decided to go home.. The hunting trip was cover for him to return to his own planet, the FBI was there just to make sure there wasn't any evidence left behind. I know this is true I heard it from a friend of a friend.
"You know what the difference is between you and me? I make this look good.”
@@hoi-polloi905This man's clearly an alpha male and an athletic specimen.
...friend of a friend? I'm in.
@@Based_Morty I was making a men in black joke
@@hoi-polloi905bro thinks he is eight thoughts
"Saskettes" sounds like Bigfoot's backup singers
Ha ha ha... I see the humor there ....
I am a trucker. I can confirm Albany is terrifying. I literally will bypass it when I deliver to New York and just go straight back to Pennsylvania
Good old PA. It's such an underrated place in between the big cities on the E/W borders. I love living north of Harrisburg in God's country ❤
We used to camp at the Delaware Water Gap/Seven Lakes .. just beautiful...
Dingmans Falls
Terrifying? It's not that bad!
The SPN reference was noticed and is greatly appreciated lmao
There's a story exactly like this in the mountains of Australia. Jail warden went missing. No trace of hime ever found (as far as I know)
My dad told me that there are folks that live in the wild. Most keep to themselves, but there are those that are up to no good; he discovered this in his many years of camping.
The are around Brant Lake is hardly an untamed wilderness. There is nowhere in any eastern state that is truly wild, or even that large. All of the woods are what has grown back after being logged and cleared umpteen times since Colonial days. The parks and "natural" areas are small and surrounded by houses, towns, roads; it's not like Siberia or Alaska. I seriously doubt whether anyone could live wild in the woods of upstate NY without any of the residents knowing it.
@@Pipsqwak We're from the West. Plenty of wild here. So my response was about those areas, my bad for not making that clear. But thank you for the info about the East. I didn't know about that. 🖖
Aiden's cold openings do not get the credit they deserve, they genuinely make me so hyped for the video every single time
Found your videos a few days ago and im addicted. Watch the NYS ones so close to home got me most invested
Same here. For the past 3 days i’ve been binging this channel.
The guy was 82nd airborne, thats legit
watched the Missing 411 documentary. Tom Messick was a man's man.
I've hunted NW PA (late Nov), which is similar to western NY for many years. I remember seeing one squirrel run around as a treat to the absolute boredom deer hunting is. Many times, I've asked myself is there any life at all in these woods? So the quiet woods to me has no significance.
Rain increases the scent for dogs, it doesnt wash it away. So that's weird af that they didn't pick up a scent at all.
Huh, I have not heard that before.
Just a heads up a small amount or a short dip in water amplifies the smell but constant rain for multiple hours does wash away the sent.
That’s not at all how rain works.
Ive always wondered if this was self deletion. His body was failing him and he wanted to go out on his own terms so he mustered a final burst of energy and just walked off much much further than expected of him.
Its either that someone accidentally shot him, or "accidentally" shot him, and the whole thing got covered up by those involved.
My theory? He walked north on the road instead of south. Aiden did a great demonstration of... a relatively short distance. but if i'm right... he'd have been over 500 yards away by the time anyone even thought of looking for him.
I got the feeling the whole story was suspicious. Hunting so late in the day, not calling police the night he went missing and waiting till the next day (i know i wouldnt be ok with my 80 yr old grandparent lost in the woods over night) to report it, different accounts of where Tom was, an area Tom and his son hadn't hunted before and was a change of original plans.
Part of me thinks Tom was never in that area to begin with, thats why no trace has ever been found.
@@LaLaLonna Yeah, really feels like we don't have all the info. What even was plan A?
I disagree on the cover up but the suicide angle holds some weight I won't lie.
@LaLaLonna it was a deer drive. They're supposed to be afternoon hunts.
You wait until the deer are bedded down for the day and scare them down to the hunters.
Deer drives normally happen late late morning or afternoon, unlike stalk or blind hunting.
Can’t believe you’re revisiting this case I’ve grown up in the ADK park a few miles from here great to see the attention to a forgotten case ( BTW if you were gonna make a return trip to the Adirondacks now’s a good time no tourists , no snow, not terribly cold, and there’s still no foliage makes for good surveying.)
Jeff of Dog Man & Paranormal Research ventured to Lilly Pond ALONE (very foolish) looking for Messick 2 days ago. Jeff filmed the area reporting very eerie feeling. after 21 min (noted in comments) black being is seen behind Jeff up in a tree jumping to another tree. Woods were SILENT. Area looks creepy. Jeff says every time he's gone there he never encountered another human. Before leaving Jeff blows Shofar 3X. Other visits Jeff recorded a metal scraping sound along with other weird stuff.
@@glory5918 I've been all over that area alone hiking, backpacking and trout fishing including multiple days, sitting by an open fire with a cup of coffee after a day of hiking or fishing. Lily, Duck, Round, Island and Long ponds. Lake George Wild Forest.
Never felt wrong to me. I've also backpacked much more remote areas of the 'Dacks, out for up to a week and in some of the wilderness areas not seeing another person the entire time. Again, never felt uncomfortable, even waking up to coyotes howling in the wee hours of the morning. One place in the Siamese Ponds Wilderness area I frequented for its native brookies is Mud Ponds, and aside from being in a tent at night during a vicious thunderstorm this is the only thing that ever startled me. It was about 2:30 AM and I'm awakened by an explosion. Sounded like a gun shot!
I get out of my sleeping bag, unzip the tent and I'm standing by the coals of the fire, looking out at the bigger Mud Pond. I notice something gliding through the water then suddenly it plunged underwater and as it did so it's tail slapped the water's surface, making a very loud slapping sound, almost like a gun shot. It was a freaking beaver. LOL!
There's snow at Chestertown now. LOL! Just finished snow blowing about 16" of snow.
You should cover the Ocala National Forest. Not only does it have the skunk ape, lots of paranormal anomalies, murders and disappearances but it also has a rich history that you can delve into
My Dad had a mobile home in Oklawaha. My Uncles place was in Ocala, right near Silver Springs, and when I would visit I would take the " backroad" to Oklawaha through some fairly rural middle of nowhere country. I love it down there.
My Uncle died 10 years back and my dad died in December, so I dont think I'll be going down there again.
@@saltpeter7429I'm sorry for your loss.❤
@@Carmen-us1ew Thank you. He is on my heart and mind.
Maybe Sid knew Tom was "going to go out on his own terms", then cleaned up afterwards.
Definitely a weird one.
The most likely case seems to be a medical emergency that either killed him or made him start to wander aimlessly but it's very strange that they found absolutely no evidence. Even if he was still in good shape for his age there's only so far that an 80 year old could possibly travel, especially without leaving a trace. While mineshafts and the like might be a possible explanation... You'd think those would've turned up during the search and get checked out.
I think one idea that seems missing in all this is a sudden medical issue that made him too confused and uncoordinated to think straight and do what he normally would in that situation. He was up in age and had suffered an accident that could have caused more long term damage than was realized, or simply had something ticking inside that his doctors hadn't known about. Stroke, heart attack, seizure, could all cause someone to get too out of sorts and wander off somewhere they couldn't be found, and were they to come to they may not have a clue how they got there and have lost equipment during the incident
But considering his age it makes me wonder if he was able to make longer walk even in confused state. The problem is that the body was not found and it would be hard to miss by both dogs and people searching, unless... They mentioned caves or old mines. I remember watching one of Missing Enigma's videos with Missing 411 cases that have been solved. One of them was man who was found some time latter in old shaft. Dogs couldn't track him and I think he was found randomly much later. It stuck in my mind and when mines are mentioned I always consider them the most plausible option with missing 411 cases.
@@Jaymson_yeah the mine shafts that I’ve seen that were facing towards the sky were like that Sarlac Pit they tried throwing Solo down. 2 out of 3 had fences around them but if you wondered around confused at night it wouldn’t take long before you disappear forever
was there any mines shafts in that area of new york????@@Willrocs
@@Jaymson_dogs would track a person to a mine unless they fell into it out of the sky.
@@mikebond6328unless he was specifically trying not to be tracked.
I have cared for many end of life elderly, most of them with serious cognitive decline and he may well have not been in the present, congnitively speaking.
There are a few triggers in the story, but the most important one is the new location aspect.
His cognitive decline may have been masked from proximity to people he knew and locations he was very well acquainted and comfortable with.
When he found himself in an unknown environment, alone, he may have entered a dead state, as in total loss of cognition, moving from instinct and when he began questioning his environs and situation, the gun, the woods, his confusion, could well have placed him in a different time, cognitively. A time that was traumatically imprinted in his mind.
He was a paratrooper in the military, as in dropped behind enemy lines.
He is confused, dropped behind enemy lines, can't see out an eye and suddenly he hears gun fire.
Despite his age, he was fot and had the knowledge. His weakness due to age may only have spurred the idea that he was injured and hunted and he fled, working as best he could to hide his tracks and confuse pursuit.
I can't find his military record, but we know he was in the 82nd paratrooper and if he was in Vietnam, it would actually make a lot more sense that he may have fallen in the sinkhole, if he believed he was in Vietnam, since going South would have been his obvious choice to attempt to return to the US positions or even just discover where he was.
A silent forest is terrifying. Doesn't it indicate that a predator is in the area?
I dont know where you people get this from. Birds are known to make warning calls when noticing predators. I would love to see any factual evidence that prey animals go into stealth mode when there are predators nearby.
If a forest quiets down i doubt its because of a predator.
@@niksonrex88
Forests do tend to be slightly quiet when a predator is around. Not dead silent but noticeably quieter. Mostly ground animals go silent like crickets and stuff.
@@Warhammer_AI yeah im sure crickets are scared of a bear... I find this hard to believe.
@@niksonrex88Then you explain it since you obviously know so much more than everyone else sherlock.
@@benjamintriplett3 why would i need to explain such a simple concept? Crickets arent prey to bears or any big predator for that matter. And animals dont go into stealth mode or whatever. I dont know why it happens but i dont pretend like i know. Although common sense would dictate it definitely isnt due to a predator.
Interestingly, Champlain mentions a shift in between his voyages in the 1500s- tribes and villages he encountered on his first trip disappeared and were replaced by tribes speaking a different language by the time of his second trip.
The fact about the doggie got me tearin fr😭
Nicely done.
Tom telling his hunting team that he was not planning to stay in one place is peculiar. You would typically not expect someone responsible for acting as the “Post-up” or “watch-man” on a drive hunt to say something like this, unless maybe they were joking. Still, it’s possible that Tom got up and moved around - We even have the ranger who worked the case stating that it was never Tom’s intention to stay in one place. It’s definitely weird.
The rifle not being found is baffling to me - more so than his body not being found. This area of Warren County is not THAT remote. 300 experienced searchers searching 30 square miles would have at least come across the rifle.
About the FBI presence-
I was once given an (unsubstantiated) explanation by a pal in law enforcement that this was only an example of why the FBI 'mysteriously' show up in cases like this- They were perhaps working an (appearently?) unrelated case in the area (say, interstate smuggling, a suspect in an unrelated crime, etc)
And, in an open case, it seems reasonable for the FBI to get involved in an otherwise mundane disappearance, and why (sneaky, evil? Lol) marginally competent Feds wouldn't explain their presence.
That said- in regards to conspiracy theories involving law enforcement, in many cases- "Never ascribe malice (or the paranormal) to that which is more easily explained by incompetence/ stupidity/ laziness"...
That, may apply here, and to Law Enforcement (Cops!) in general- even if (as I assume) their hearts and intentions are/were mostly in the right place. People are idiots, and idiots have been, and always will be, much more common than criminal conspiracies, aliens, the supernatural, and evil masterminds from area 51, etc, right? Right.
...Just my two cents.
I would add that if there's an apparently unrelated case that's gone quiet, an energetic person might join the search to get background information, learn/practice search techniques or generally get a feel for the area. Plus a senior agent might send an enthusiastic youngster just to get some peace lol
Do you consider yourself an idiot?
It is naive and stupid to not ascribe malice to which you can ascribe stupidity. That statement was invented by manipulators and other malicious people. When in doubt, it is at least 50-50 if not more on the side of "the person was malicious" compared to "the person is stupid".
Starting off the video with a Supernatural reference is possibly the best way to start the video.
This is so weird to mew because I live in Warren County and it's weird to hear local things on youtube videos. Great video it was really informative and entertaining.
Fr they’ve covered a case from my mom’s college town and the town where she’s from and it was so surreal 😂
After hearing the ridiculous claim that Tom was never on that mountain, I ran this case by my grandma, who’s almost exactly his age. Gave her all the details from all the different podcasts. She thought that the idea that an 82 year old would want to be anywhere other than w his family in his own home is ridiculous, and I agree. She couldn’t think of anyone her age that would want to even vacation on some tropical island let alone disappear there. Or anywhere else
my grandparents are both 80 and they go hiking to another country (granted, i live in europe, so not that difficult) with their friends every year (and they return, thankfully) so i wouldn't say that's true
@@givingyoumyheartandsoul9564 are they happily married ? Do you think there is a chance in hell one of them would abandon the other for some tropical island ? Cause by literally scores of accounts that old man and his wife were a very happy couple
@@Proudathiest1 im sorry, what tropical island are you talking about?
@@givingyoumyheartandsoul9564 so when the guys from the lore lodge went to the area that the old man went missing and talked to the locals , a lot of them claimed that they don’t believe he was ever on that mountain to begin with. They had heard rumors, or they just came up with the theory out of the blue, that he ran off to the Bahamas or some tropical island to spend the rest of his days alone. . They claimed his brother had also done that several years prior
@@Proudathiest1 ah sorry, i thought you were talking about the fact that he shouldn't have been on the mountain to begin with because what 82 year old would want to go hiking with his friends instead of staying at home. my bad!
I, for one, love love love the history segments. I wanted to learn this history in school but never did. No shade to those who skip them, but they're missing out.
I had a silent forest experience years ago in Wine Country of the Finger Lakes region in New York. It was a state park I had never been to before and sadly don't remember the name of. after a while into the hike I realized it was silent, literally no sound other than my own footsteps on the forest floor. I saw and heard no birds, no chittering squirrels, not even fling insects, nothing at all. The forest floor itself was blanketed with whole untouched acorns, i found one single tree with acorn shells at its base. I was very much unnerved in the forest, to the point I went to the park ranger station and asked about what I observed and was to told the animal would be sleeping at that time of day. It an experience I cant explain, and haven't forgotten about
Which animal?
For some reason this case really sticks with me would love to go spend sometime out there. Prayers for Tom's family
I don't know why I keep having this same thought but did anyone check if the boulder he was sitting, for whatever reason, flipped over and he was crushed under it?
It would explain no trail for the dogs to follow, his missing gear, clothes trash etc,
The trackers would spot something like that in a heart beat.
And the dogs would’ve smelled him without a doubt
How would a Boulder just flip over? Not being snarky, truly curious.
Infrasound attack could move boulder maybe DARPA@@leannabryan6851
This is what my theory is. Maybe a hole or sunken in ground right by the rock and he fell in, grabbing the rock for support and pulled it even more.
Leave no stone unturned is a saying for a reason.
1 pm isn't an uncommon time to do a drive. Sit in the trees for the morning, have lunch and beer then hit a drive before the evening sit
As someone who knew him, in the community of people who knew him. He went missing with intent. Yes he was active and a sportsmen but his health was declining rapidly. He'd rather go on his terms and out in nature than in a hospital. Still like the story. Big believer in the supernatural. But not this one
I think this is often the case in unexplained disappearances. Suicide is, unfortunately, a plague among all ages.
@@takingupmycross9869 Why would he do that with his family there leaving them to worry? Why would he just disappear making it harder for his wife to get life insurance or social security benefits with no boyd? Why didn't dogs find the body?
@amys5669 Suicide is the most selfish thing someone can do. The whole focus of someone suicidal is themselves, their feelings, and how things affect them. Sadly, the family members usually pay the biggest price in these scenarios. I think most people would never do that to themselves because they love their families so much.
Let me clear, I don't know if this is what happened in this case. It's simply a gut feeling with most of these strange wilderness disappearances. As far as the dogs, I do know dogs aren't exactly a sure thing when it comes to tracking scents. Their sense of smell is definitely better than ours would be, but not perfect.
I just have a hard time seeing any other plausible explanation for this old-timers' disappearance. Usually, the simplest explanation is the right one. Take care.
@@takingupmycross9869People who are suicidal or commit suicide are not thinking straight. They are severely depressed. Not selfish. You need to understand this. You need to educate yourself on this. If someone around you is suicidal, don't tell them they are being selfish. You could probably push them over the edge.
@Sacred_Fire Agreed. I'd never say that in those words to someone who's suicidal. But It is definitely selfish. Talk to my kids whose dad killed himself. He wasn't thinking of his wife or kids. He was thinking of himself and his feelings. Those kids are the ones who paid the price. It's the most selfish thing a person can do. Hands down. There's always hope. People simply need help to see it.
I’ve long believed he was not out there in the first place. I think the one detail that convinced me of this point was how late they started in the day. You mention in the video it was strange they started super late, which I agree is unusual for deer hunting. I believe a likely explanation for this is that there was some kind of accident, either hunting, vehicle, or natural causes, that occurred which resulted in the death of Tom. After this accident, whatever it was, the crew decided they needed to come up with a plan and find a way to cover it up. I do not think the death of Tom was a nefarious thing, most likely some sort of hunting accident which ended in him being killed. Either way, I hope one day his family has answers and can rest easy. Rest in peace Tom.
His son was hunting with him. So why would his son hide it from his mom?
If it was something they were hiding, maybe he committed suicide at home, and the family had to cover it up to get the insurance money. But I think they'd still want to bury him.
I think it was dogmen that took him.
Eight missing people over forty four years doesn't seem like a lot for a mountain range. Granted deaths are another as in seems like a lot of people die while hiking the Adirondacks
Die and completely disappear are two different things.
Hmm,Sasquetts, huh? Brant Lake isn't, too far from Whitehall, NY. Whitehall, is known for Bigfoot, they even have an annual festival and calling contest.
“…basically any other state in the country, I would move here.” We need more young men like you!!!
Young man? He's like 26, he's basically a grandpa
So stoked to see you guys revisit this one. Out of all the missing persons cases, this one keeps me up at night the most
Monsters from the movie “the decent “ got him
What about the people that said tom was never there in the first place? And that his brother or something like that had disappeared in a similar fashion a year before
They talk about it, there were 6 people there that said that he was there. A few that gain little to nothing to keep saying he was there.
they were postulating.
Sid described the sound as metallic.
I worked in the Adirondacks for two summer seasons as a trail guide at a historic site. I definitely got the creeps, and felt like I wasn’t alone a few times.
The Sasquets sounds like Bigfoots backing band. Seriously though I always get the feeling the old dude checked himself out, kept walking long as he could. Maybe had a bottle of something strong on him and let the cold put him to sleep. But then I think it's saving your family the agony of you ending it all but subjecting your family to the agony of you being missing. So I got no idea lol, maybe he ran off with an Eskimo lady on a sled. The sound was her cracking her whip to start the huskies lol.
20:25 Some areas it’s better to go out in the evening than early in the morning. Just depends on the time of year and season. I live in upstate NY, a few hours from this area and there have been a few hunting seasons where you’d see nothing all morning, just to eat your lunch and watch em walk by.
Yeah I came to say the same. That time of year it gets dark at 5-6:00 and you have to be out early enough that the deer have a chance to come by
the utilization of LIDAR to find possible crevices or unmarked wells could be a break in the case, there was a similar case in the crazies where the body was found in an unmarked well not 50 feet from where he was last seen, especially in an area that's been settled for the better part of the last 3-4 centuries like upstate new york
When it comes to wilderness search and rescue, any government entity with the resources available will usually turn up to help. Most of the time its Homeland Security, Air Force, or National Guard, but occasionally someone crazy will show up. There was another case recently where Army SF was helping look for a missing child. The FBI getting involved isnt exactly surprising because they basically have SAR training but under a different label and they have air assets and expensive equipment that can help. They probably heard about the case, said "huh, yall wanna go find him?" and then showed up.
With other groups, you’re totally right. With the FBI, however, we essentially never see them involved unless they firmly believe it’s organized crime/serial killing.
The FBI can literally pick and choose wherever they want to butt in.
@@TheLoreLodge Or they are invited by other entities - that can happen and in fact the FBI are involved in a lot of searches all over the USA. Its not a mystery.
@@TheLoreLodge Or, perhaps, there was a real-life Special Agent Fox Mulder that found out about Mr. Messick’s disappearance.
@@deerichardz Seems to be consistent with The X-Files’ premise
I wonder if there is a natural explanation. Remember how your leg sank into that muddy patch when you visited the area? I wonder if Tom got up, stumbled into a large patch like that, and was somehow entirely swallowed up. Him wandering into one wouldn't explain what happened to his stuff though. Or if someone did something to him, perhaps they knew about a large patch like that and dumped him and his stuff. Sid(?) heard the noise, so perhaps that's when Tom met his end and then someone moved him?
Rifles are heavy. a person falling in mud while carrying a rifle... that Rifle ain't gonna float.
Wouldn't the dogs smell his trail to the quicksand/mud?
@@Carmen-us1ew maybe, maybe not. scents don't stick very well in some places
@@marhawkman303 I was more thinking any other stuff he had with him. I can't remember if they said he had a backpack or similar.
I think he was accidentally shot by another hunter and they hid the crime by by putting his body and gear in their truck like a dead deer and driving away.. He was sitting by the side of a road, after all. Anyone could have been up there during hunting season; it wasn't private property. Who knows where the poor old guy is buried.
Knowing forested areas littered with mine shafts, that option makes the most sense to me. Even ones that are made by individuals, not large companies, can be really deep. Any scent of Tom or decomposition wouldn’t reach the surface. They’re also so well hidden by time & nature. I’d be curious to know if any were found by searchers, if the searchers were looking so methodically & close together. It doesn’t seem like it, if there was no mention of that. But someone can be right next to one & miss it.
I really appreciate how you can dive into things giving your own unique take, especially adding in the local Native lore and history, without attacking other creators. I know a lot of people like to hate on Paulides, and there's certainly stuff that can be added to some of his cases, but this field wouldn't exist without him and I, for one, wouldn't be following your channel if he hadnt introduced me to these sorts of phenomena (some of which I'd experienced in the woods either as a kid in Ontario Canada or as a law student in Jamaica - the island, not the part of NY - but never had a cohesive theoretical idea about). Great work as always.
Didnt one of the men state that sid claimed the sound he heard sounded like a trap opening or closing? Ive thought about this detail alot ever since seeing the documentary and the story. Its very very odd.
Underground structures similar to cellars have been used by hunters and one account of a young teenage boy who escaped one after being captured, held in there like a prisoner and raped repeatedly by a freak.
There’s a State Park in Newburyport MA called Maudslay, and I’ve experienced a few very strange things there.
One time it was about 1am, I was with a couple of friends and we were exploring, as we had heard the park had dark history and may be haunted.
I get goosebumps just typing this.. But it was around 1am and the woods around us went entirely silent. The crickets stopped, the frogs stopped, and even the wind fell to a complete still.
My buddy started a sentence when we heard a loud scream, and I mean LOUD. It came from the field directly in front of us and it was a high pitched woman like scream that actually went on steadily for close to a minute without breaking.
We ran out of there as fast as possible. All 3 of us fell over multiple times, and I swear the weirdest part was that no matter how far we got from the field, the scream stayed the same loud volume and didn’t break. It sounded as though it was all around us.
I’ll never EVER go back there after dark.
A few years passed before I went there again, for a picnic with a new girlfriend.
It was around noon, and I was telling her the story, when the wind died down, and everything fell silent again.
I abruptly stopped the story, and told her “we have to go now”.
She was confused, but she didn’t hesitate to leave with me, as I’m sure she could feel something was very wrong.
I finished the story in the car, and her reply was, “why would you ever take me there?”
And in the moment I really didn’t know how to answer her.
I’ve never felt so afraid of a place in my life.
I’ve been back a few times since, but I only take a short walk, and I don’t go to deep into the park. Hell no.
I will say the scream was not a fisher cat, I’ve heard those. This was something else, and I don’t know of anything that can scream that loudly, and for as long as it went on.
I wish so badly I knew what it was, but it came from the center of a pitch black field and filled the forest around it with its horrific sound.
Thanks to whoever took the time to read this, as I don’t share this story often anymore.
This channel gets better and better... I came for the strangeness, and stayed for the history. (Does anyone else get more into/ excited about the history than the strangeness? Well, that was my minor, but, still, it is done very well here.)
Cheers!
If you like hauntings, check out Paranormal Files on here. Colin tells all the history of the places he's investigating. And he doesn't use trickery in his findings. Many times he doesn't find anything, but it's still a great show!!
The woods being silent is scary, because the only thing that makes animals stop making noises is either an aproaching storm, or something in the area is enough of a threat that everything else shuts up so they don't get attacked
I think the idea that he was never there in the first place and his family constructed this lie to cover for him while he disappeared voluntarily would make the most sense, if not for his age. He was in his 80s. Realistically, he wasn't really going to have much time to live whatever new life he would have wanted to if this theory were correct.
“That’s old, that is an old man” had me in stitches 😂
Born and raised in the Adirondacks, always love these videos thank you! There have been some interesting ones up here, Douglas Legg at Santanoni in Minerva, Colin Gillis in Tupper Lake, both unsolved. Another that has been solved would be Sara Anne Wood from Frankfort, was abducted and is believed to be buried in the Adirondacks.
you said Albany and upstate New York so many times without mentioning steamed hands
So like, are there any mountains anywhere on earth that aren't known for "high strangeness"? I mean honestly man mountains are weird.
I speak for no one but myself, but I absolutely love the local histories in your videos. It's the thing that actually got me to subscribe and start going through your catalogue, so thank you so much for including them!
Old people get confused sometimes. He's used to hunting at HIS camp. Falls asleep, wakes up and forgets he's at a different area. Confused, he wanders off. He sees something illegal and they kill him, throw him in a pickup truck and get rid of him, perhaps in the sawdust pile.
I do have to say as much as the FBI is untrustworthy I could see them training agents how to track with lesser missing persons cases
Unironically look forward to the history segments every time, keep up the good work !
Thank you for all the information, and also to the commenters who are sharing such a lot!
Just found you guys through a friend! Very informative. Thank you!
Schuylerville is pronounced Sky-ler-ville :)
Yes. At least that is how the people who actually live there pronounce it.
And that's exactly how it looks. Not sure why he was having so much trouble. I'm not even in that state.
I've heard this story at least a couple of times before. During the afternoon of the hunt, one of the fellow hunters reported hearing a strange metallic sound, like a clanging sound or the sound of a large door closing. He said he'd never heard such a sound in the woods before and that it was very eerie.
During one of Jeff Nadolny's visits (within the past 10mos) to the Lilly Pond area he caught on tape what might be a similar sound? A comment on Dogman & Paranormal Research suggested the sound might be a huge very thick metal underground bunker door opening / closing.
@@glory5918I haven't heard this theory before, very interesting!!😮
My exhusband used to tell aa story about him having gone camping with a friend and heard a extremely loud metallic sound coming from the surrounding woods and being terrified. I had never heard of anyone hearing thay before.. so crazy
He said that it reminded him of the sound of a trap
This is one of the most comprehensive reports I have seen/heard on the Messick case. Great job!
I remember this case from the missing 411 documentary. My sympathy goes out to the family and friends. Thanks for sharing.
HAHAHA THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU! The entire time you're talking about the "Mystery" of the Iroquois Migration, I'm screaming "ASK THE DAMN IROQUOIS!" LOL Years ago, Chief Leonard Dan (Navajo Nation) said that for years, archaeologists/anthropologists could not figure out why there were these beautiful Cliff Dwellings in Chaco Canyon, and yet many people chose to live on the canyon floor. Chief Dan said they never bothered to ask us. We always knew. The Anasazi Cliff Dwellers were cannibals. They would raid other tribes taking slaves, and when they weren't any more use as slaves, they were killed and eaten. The slaves lived on the canyon floor from which there is no escape. After he said that publicly, they said it explained something else they found puzzling: dissection (cutting) marks on human bones.
Whaaaat? Ask people? But that's [gasp, shock] the dreaded *anecdotal evidence* ! Modern academia cannot tolerate wisdom that isn't sanctified by paying hundreds of thousands of dollars into a university!
Of course, its not as if Native tribes and their oral story telling is somehow devoid of its own biases and errors, either, especially in regards to other tribes.
There are no "cliff dwellings" in Chaco canyon. And the Navajo wouldn't know s**t about what went on in Chaco as it was abandoned in the 1100's and the Navajo didn't show up in that country until the 1400's.
@@Princess_Celestia_ First, you're an idiot. Just use your ugoogely machine and search for "Chaco Canyon Cliff House", and as for when they arrived, who cares? Maybe you don't know history, but many people do. I didn't arrive until 1963, but I know a lot about history, because I can do this thing all the kids are forgetting. Its called READING! Try it sometime.
Wow, interesting!!
Bro offered a peace pipe alternative before dropping some Native history, this one’s gonna be goooood!
The amount of research you guys do on your videos is outstanding! Love the channel.
great coverage! Greetings from Mansfield.
I think Tom accidentally walked through a Portal. If we’re going to go with the supernatural then that’s the only thing that fits the details that we are given, providing the family are being truthful and that none of them had anything to do with his disappearance.
I wrote a message on here about a policeman who witnessed a Dogman at the Land Between the Lakes in Kentucky. He said before it appeared he heard a loud metal door slam. He said he thought it was demonic and that it came from an underground portal. That is the same type sound that Ben heard from this video.
@@debbietriplett6337very interesting!! I've heard of the door sound, but hadn't heard it related to dogman. I commented on here though, that I think it's dogmen. There's too many people in the same area missing (for it to be aliens or sasquatch, I think).
Heyoo, I work in Albany! You picked the wrong hotel.
We picked the cheapest hotel that didn’t look like it had roaches. It may have had roaches, but at least it didn’t look like it.
@@TheLoreLodge you’re probably safe. At least you didn’t go to the Motel 6. The reviews for that place are hilarious.
I can’t remember exactly where, but I had read something about several people being convinced that one of his sons had something to do with his disappearance.
I’m from Saratoga Springs, NY and I’ve always found this case so eerie.