Electrical Audio How-To: Baking and Transferring Audio Tapes, Pt. 1
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- Опубликовано: 21 июн 2024
- Electrical Audio Studio Manager and House Engineer Taylor Hales demonstrates how to test an analog audio tape to determine if it needs to be baked prior to digital transfer, and how to properly bake a magnetic tape.
For further information on topics discussed in this video, visit:
Richard Hess' Tape Restoration Resources:
www.richardhess.com/tape/
"The Digitization of Audio Tapes" Government of Canada Technical Bulletin:
www.canada.ca/en/conservation...
"Choosing and Using MRL Calibration Tapes for Audio Tape Recorder Standardization" (including common tape speed and EQ combinations): www.mrltapes.com/choo&u.pdf
Wikipedia "Sticky-Shed Syndrome":
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sticky-...
Shot by Ed Bornstein;
Edited by Taylor Hales
Music by Whaddupp Sonn
www.electricalaudio.com
So this is how you get your mixes to sound warmer....
nothing half-baked about this tutorial - very informative and well done
Slip and slide, take a ride!
Interesting video. I've found that doing a full library rewind away from the heads and then checking the beginning of the tape shows me whether the tape needs to be baked or not. It needs to be fully rewound anyway before it can be baked safely. 130 F for 4 to 8 hours (depending on tape width) in a convection oven does the required job with a four hour rest before transfer. When I worked at the CBC and we would bake two middle cabinets full of tape overnight for 12 to 14 hours in a temperature controlled 4 drawer metal file cabinet (heated by incandescent light bulbs with fans mounted in the top and bottom drawers) and that worked beautifully as well. Transfer is a delicate process and digital audio capture recording should be done immediately as soon as the tape is loaded for playback. This recording process has also saved me on a number of occasions with older acetate type tape and poorly stored lower quality tape (which should never be baked) where the tape has separated from it's backing through shedding. The first play was the last play but the archival audio was saved via this "assume you have one chance" transfer technique.
Fantastic! I have some 7 “ reels that my dad had recorded himself singing to Uriah Heap, and various other things somewhere around 1969. I haven’t played them for about 25 to 30 years. I am going to try to archive them to digital, so this was perfect!
So glad I found your video! I have hundreds of 2" masters that I can't bring myself to throw away. It is 25 years of studio masters that no one seems to care about much anymore. I plan to get a dehydrator and working through digitizing them. Thanks for sharing this!
Our pleasure! Feel free to write us if you need any guidance if you get stuck on something.
Thank you for sharing this info.
Your presentaion covered very well and clearly and logically, the issue!
Super!
Very nice tutorial, thank you! ...although after baking the Beatles White album original multitrack studio reels I came to realize 130 degrees should have been Fahrenheit.
so that's 54°C :-)
Thank you for an instrutive and profesional answer to this question.
Such a GREAT channel!!! Great content!
Really well made video and very useful.
Even though I will probably never need this information this is incredibly interesting to watch.
Very, very helpful. Thank you!
Great video, nice shots and good resource links. It was very good to mention to check if it's an acetate tape, which, unlike in Europe, was especially popular in the US. It should be also mentioned how to determine this type by holding the tape wind against some light source. A brownish shine-through will usually indicate an acetate tape, while others will not let light through. The safest way is to bake a (non-acetate) tape on a metal reel as some plastic reels will not hold up to 130 F / 55 C.
Those are very good points, thanks for the comment!
I thought the same thing: I would never bake a plastic reel even at 55 C
@@sonnioffice6439 Some say bake at 113 Fahrenheit degrees?
@@MrmelodyUs i think it's a case of trying at a lower temperature first for 12-24 hours , then find the optimum for your tapes and whatever oven you're using.
Great video! I have a 7" reel of 996 that started squealing about one minute into the play back, so I carefully turned the reels over and played in reverse. I have a Teac 2300sx and don't have the ability to do a library wind. Hopefully I didn't damage anything.
Great video, I have a nice new dehydrator that I figured I can use for this. I only have around 30 reel to reel 8 and 16 track recordings but I was not able to transfer all of them to digital due to sticky tape issues. So thak you for posting.
Thank You So Much!
Hi.. very useful video.. 130ºF is the temperature you recommend for these tapes? all brands? what about videotape, like umatic ampex tapes? .. thanks!
Hi,
Thanks! Yes that is our standard for all PET-base tapes, just don't bake acetate tapes!
We just baked a batch of Ampex open-reel 1/2" video tapes a few days ago and they played great after 24 hours at 130F. Thanks for watching!
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial thanks! gonna try it.. first i have to make myself of an oven with temp regulator
Thanks ever so much
Hi, this as all of the other videos of yours are very clear and helpful.
I have just one particular issue: I NEED to listen to the full recording of that tape for at least 2 hours a day, but I'm struggling to find it on the internet.
Any help on this regard?
Otherwise I will have to keep watching this video just to listen to those bits and pieces :)
Hey, glad you liked the series and the tune here! Whaddupp Sonn is an improv music project from Ed Bornstein, who shot a bunch of our videos and plays in Poplife and Foul Tip, and Rob Frye from Flux Bikes and Bitchin Bajas. Ben Lamar Gay also played with them on a session. I don't think it's been released but I can send you the track if you email us (you can find the general studio email on our website).
Finally! This is a great tutorial!
Question: I have Ampex 456, and 499 ½' tapes. Are they PET base, or cellulose acetate base film?
Thanks!
456 and 499 is all poly base- you can bake it. Almost all 456 older than, say, 10 years old will need at least a day of baking. Some 499 will be ok without baking, some will need it, depending on age, storage conditions, aging, etc.
Just to be clear, it is the binder (that holds the magnetic particles) that is hydroscopic.
Most sources I've seen recommend baking a reel of 1/4" tape for 4 hours, (and cooling for the same time).
I think you mean HYGROscopic, not hydroscopic.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial You're right, of course. (My problem being that I knew 'hydro' was the Greek root for water, but didn't know that 'hygro' was the Greek root for moist.) :)
Truly loved your video
Thanks for the methodical approach and step by step approach
May I ask what is the brand and model number of the oven and who the vendor is?
Also noticed your unit has 4 speeds up to 30 IPs
Could you advice on what models can I look for that have these 4 speeds for 1/4”?
And are these 2 tracks or 4 tracks?
Thanks much
The oven is branded "Cabela's" but is made by Weston. I believe it's the "Pro-1200" model.
We use Ampex ATR-102s for 1/4" and 1/2" transfers up to 4 tracks. They are incredibly flexible in that you can set them up for 1, 2, or 4 tracks (provided you have enough audio cards and the appropriate meter bridge), as well as quarter-track, in either 1/4" and 1/2". There were ATR-100 machines that went up to 2" 24-track, but those were very rare.
The other machines that have 4-speed capability I know of are the Studer A820s, which also were made for a variety of formats and Studer A810. Some Otari and MCI machines offered a combination of speeds, but as far as I know none of them offer all 4 on the same machine simultaneously.
Greatly appreciate your prompt and helpful response taylor @@ElectricalAudioOfficial
Excellent video, thank you. What is the recommended solvent to clean the rubber rollers?
Hi,
We've heard two different things- ATR Service Co. recommended isopropyl alcohol, even though we suspect it may dry out the rubber. They're the pros, though!
Athan corp makes a cleaner specifically for their rollers, though I'm not sure it's appropriate for standard rubber rollers.
Hope that helps!
I always understood distilled water is preferred - unless a solvent is needed to remove a sticky residue (then diluted isopropyl alcohol - or isopropyl alcohol followed by distilled water). Obviously allow the rubber to dry before running a tape, although a lint-free cloth will remove most moisture.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial I have an old product called Rubber Renew - a cleaner/re-conditioner, but I'm afraid to try it on my newly purchased MTR90II. Any thoughts?
@@bradchatterton2576 A quick Google search turned up an Amazon review where someone had disastrous results using that stuff on a pinch roller.
If your rollers have become sticky, you probably need to replace them. Athan makes new ones that are considered an upgrade for just about every machine out there, and Terry's Rubber Rollers will replace the worn and sticky rubber on your existing pinch/ impedance rollers for cheap. For cleaning tape reside off, use high concentration alcohol, but it will dry the rollers out.
Question to mr. Hales Should be the cassette tape lubricated against
sticking and if yes- what kind of lubrication to use and how this will
affected the frequency range and the quality of the sound likes dynamic,
noise and wow and flutter. Thank you for your consideration in
advance!
Hi, tape has lubricant in the composition of the coatings. Generally, you don't want to lubricate the tape for playback or transfer, as it can create a mess that could damage tape and machine. However, if you dig into Richard Hess' site, you'll find an article about "wet playing" tapes, and some other examples of people using very specific lubricants when baking couldn't restore a tape for transfer. I should caution that these should only be done by a professional who is setup for wet playing. In most cases where the tape is degrading because of sticky-shed syndrome, baking is the solution. But not in all cases...
Good luck!
How would I know if my pre- recorded purchased musical tapes are cellulose acetate base film ? For example my Willie Nelson on Columbia? It plays amazing and sounds great ! Thank you. Excellent video !
Often the box will say something like "polyester" or "PET" or "acetate" indicating one way or another. If not, the best indicator is probably production date-- acetate base film stopped being used widely in the mid-to-late 1960s, so if the album was released after that, it's almost certainly not acetate base.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial thank you. It seems to be in excellent shape. I store these at normal temperature and humidify levels in my home listening room.
Thanks -- what brand of dehydration oven are you using?
Cabela's
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial thanks!!
Do you adjust the baking time for a 5" reel vs 7"? Or is it still pretty much standard to do 24hrs?
Hiya, our first bake is always 24 hours. Thanks for watching!
Hey man, could you grab my Hotpocket out of there? Just put it back on the console over a fader slot. The rising heat keeps it toasty.
Thanks for this very informative vid, Taylor. Are you pretty happy with the Cabela dehydrator? Definitely more affordable than a lab-grade Thermo Scientific. Do you recommend the Cabela?
Yeah, it's totally fine! My gripes with it are minor- namely, you can't do longer than 23-hour, 55-minute bake time, so when we do bakes longer than a day, I have to add 23:55 every day.
It seems like with a lab-grade one you get a bigger capacity and probably better circulation. It would be nice having a bigger oven to do a whole bunch of tapes simultaneously when we get bigger transfer projects in, but I also think about how longer bakes can bottleneck our baking queue, so it would be just as nice to have two ovens with one dedicated to longer bakes.
Such are my thoughts!
Many thanks. We are upping our game as far as in-house AV digitization at my University and I’m looking at equipment to add to our lab. Really appreciate the info. @@ElectricalAudioOfficial
very informative. Can a tape with a lot of sticky shred cause a machine to slow on playback or stop fast forward and rewind?
Yes! It can cause both. Those are fairly extreme symptoms.
Electrical Audio Never thought that could cause those symptoms. I thought that was more a electrical failure. Thx for sharing.
Is it ok to record pro tracks on tapes that have been baked? The reason I ask is because I have a bunch of Ampex 499 and 456 that all leave that gunk upon the first play/run after 20 years of not playing. They’re not sticky. I’m in the process of baking them. They’re NOS blanks and I would like to record on them. Would the baking degrade the way they’d print/record? Thanks.
First and most importantly, it's definitely a very poor practice to record anything to tape you know is bad, so don't do it!
Secondly, if tapes are leaving gunk on anything, they ARE sticky. That is the symptom of sticky-shed tape. Regardless of whether tape has ever been recorded on or not, it can (it DOES) get sticky. 456, 499, even GP9 all become sticky with age, used or NOS, and how quickly and to what extent they do so depends on the manufacturing conditions, storage conditions, and a multiple of other factors. In 2022, you should not be recording on any of these formulas for anything even remotely critical, because even if you bought tape from the last batch ever manufactured of any of these formulas, it should be considered bad at this point. This is why it's slimy for people to sell these tapes on ebay, Reverb, etc. Maybe they don't know, but that tape is not usable, and certainly not worth more than it sold for new.
Yes!!! Thank you!!! 1Nation4Life
Are there any concerns with baking tapes with heavy splice editing?, like a splice every 8 sec for a length of 20-min or longer?
Will the baking destroy the adhesive glue of the splice?
It may well dry out the adhesive in the splicing tape, yes, but regrettably you may not have any choice but to bake! We often have to re-splice tapes during transfers. They will come undone during the wind when the forces on the splices are greater- another reason to wind SLOWLY as you don't want to risk damaging the tape if a splice comes undone.
Hope that helps and good luck!
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial Thank you very much!
When the baking has solved the problem will the tape usually be good for multiple playbacks like doing a remix on a desk or do I have just "one shot" to transfer it to another medium? Thx
Yes, multiple playbacks are totally fine. The only limitation is that the tape will revert to its stickiness at some point, usually within a couple weeks. But within a couple weeks of baking, if you've baked enough, you can playback as much as you need.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial this is so good news, thanks a lot!
Should there be any concerns about the metal rack in your oven containing any magnetic properties that might negativity affect the very sensitive tapes?
I can't imagine the wire racks have obtained a permanent magnetic charge, but it's possible. Still, the magnetization would have to be substantial to erase or compromise the tapes whatsoever.
Should tapes be put onto a metal reel for baking if their reel is plastic or they can bake on the plastic reel?
You can bake on a plastic reel. 130 degrees F won't melt the plastic.
hi there are make of tapes that never need baking zonal I NEVER BAKED i have a otari mtr 12 1/2 tape it's the ampex makes i had to check i know zonal
is not liked because of the why it sounds when it recorded on zonal has a higher out put and just not right for drums i have be told i love the sound of betacam sp
when recording put the heads in to play back when recording sounds ace 4 track quad audio as well for mastering
How long after baking can I wait before I would need to load the tape on the tape machine? I ask because Im in a situation where I wont have the dehydrator in the same location as the tape machine and Im not sure how quickly moisture could find its way back into the tape. Thanks in advance!
Hi, you should wait 24 hours between the end of the bake and putting the tape up for transfer.
Your mileage may vary, but the bake will usually leave the tape playable for between a couple weeks and a month. Remember to test it after you bake! You may have to bake again for longer.
Good luck!
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial thanks a lot! amazing help!
Can you fit two 2" tapes in that oven, if so, for how long do you bake them? and For how long do you think a tape could work before it needs to be baked again? Thanks, and great video!
Yes, we can fit two 2" tapes. I try to bake incrementally- the first bake is 24 hours for narrower tape or later 2" formulas (499, GP9), and 2 days for 2" of problematic formulas (456, 468, 996). I check after the first bake, and if it's not playable, I'll re-bake with longer time (3 or 5 days), then check again, and if it's not playable, increase the bake time again (a week or sometimes up to two weeks!).
Generally we say that tape is playable for a month after it's been baked enough, but that's a pretty rough estimate.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial OK, thanks for your reply. Wow, two weeks, that must be a record! 😅. Best regards and thanks again for all the cool videos your making. 🙏
I've never seen Maxell tapes need this treatment.
Does the brand dehydrator matter? What would you recommend? also, is a convection oven better for this than a dehydrator?
Brand doesn't matter. The important things are that it can maintain the right temperature, and that air circulates so that the temperature is even throughout the volume of the oven.
A convection oven would be fine if you find one that can get down to 130 degrees F.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial Got it. Thanks
Is it recommended to maybe vacu-pack a tape that is known to be susceptible to moisture? Maybe after a bake and transfer just use one of those food storage vacu-sealers and maybe a desiccate pack in the box?
Yeah, we pack tapes in plastic bags with dessicant silicone packets inside.
I would not do this to acetate tapes. The reason acetate tapes don’t commonly exhibit vinegar syndrome unlike acetate base photo/movie film, is that film was commonly stored in sealed tins, whereas tape was always commonly in cardboard boxes that acted as somewhat of a buffer and allowed the tapes to “breathe”
There was one company in the mid-50’s that offered prerecorded 2 track tapes (in both stacked/inline and staggered/offset formats!) and they sold their tapes in these custom round plastic containers, totally sealing the tapes up. Try and open one of those tapes up now after they’ve been stewing in their own juices for 70 years, see what you’ll find…
I have no idea if the polyester base tapes react just as poorly to being sealed up like that, but at the very least I would make sure it’s not being done to acetate
What if I have a bunch of tapes. Would it be a problem to just bake them all without the preliminary check? Doing check on all those would be time consuming. Thanks for the great info!
You could, though in professional archivists, whose domain this really is, recommend against unnecessary baking. You're right that checking tapes is time-consuming, we just don't *really* know long-term impacts
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial Thanks!
Can you travel through an airport xray carry on / or checked baggage? I have Ampex 456 tapes 1998-1999 origin. Thanks!
Yes, x-Ray presents no real risk of demagnetization/ erasure.
Can you bake tape stored on plastic reels?
Yup. Keep the temperature to 130 and not above!
May seem arbitrary but could you guys consider going over some maintenance tips for type 2, 4 track cassette tape in the future, may only be a select few of us watching but it may inspire others to get into 4track home recording instead of the standard usb/thunderbolt interface and laptop. Really hope tape has some sort of revival along with vinyl courtesy of Jack White lol.
Thanks for your comment. There are a number of good videos on 4-track repair and maintenance already, and one of the self-imposed restrictions on our video topics we placed is that they shouldn't be redundant or take away from videos that cover topics well already.
Also, we are 100% in favor of the laptop and digital interface method of self-recording. There are countless amazing and beautiful recordings that simply would not exist without it.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial oh I am too if it wasnt for digital recording i might have never got into recording or music period. But after working with tape its really interactive and fun.
Does anyone know where you can send an ampex 2inc tape and get it transferred and made into stems for a Daw?
We do that at electrical. Please email us!
Do you have to remove the flanges before baking?
Nope!
I've transferred my old analogue cassette recording from the 90's as a single track in Logic Pro and am trying improve the sound quality. Do you know what that process is called? I can't find anything about this subject online. The only thing the internet talks about is how to make new digital recordings sound more Analogue. I'm trying to do the exact opposite. Any advice? Do you have any tutorials on that subject? Anything? Thanks
Hey,
That's mastering! And unfortunately we aren't mastering engineers, but luckily there are lots of great ones around, and lots of resources online.
It might also be considered restoration depending on what you're trying to do, but restoration usually encompasses trying to get as close as you can to a complete, error-free representation of the audio as it was recorded. It sounds like you want to change the audio, and improve it for a specific digital format, which I'd argue puts it squarely in mastering territory.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial There is nothing online about improving old Analogue recordings in Logic Pro. There isn't even a name for it. Extremely frustrating. The world is full of aging musicians with old Analogue recordings. I wish someone would take ownership of this process. Seems like unexplored territory
So, can you bake the tape at 130 deg F on the original 456 metal reel?
Yes! Leave it on the reel.
I just bought a machine like yours. I have some tapes from the mid 1960s - they are on a metal reel. I just wanted to confirm that the 130 degrees will not affect the metal to the point of creating a HOT surface that is directly in contact with the tape. Also - I see you demonstrating with a plastic reel - so I am assuming that is safe -- and is placing audio cassettes and video tapes in a housing? What do you do when you have audio tape that on a core - and not mounted on a reel --- do you lay that tape directly down on the wire rack surface -- or do you mount in a reel? Thanks!
Hi there. First, there was a lot of tape from the 1960s that was acetate base film. If you look on the box, it will often say "on acetate." If it does, do not bake. Not only will it not do anything, but acetate is flammable. Minimal risk you'd burn down the studio, but not worth it! If the tapes say "on polyester" or indicate otherwise that they have a poly film backing, you can bake.
The tape flanges will get hot to the touch, but that is OK.
You can bake tapes on plastic reels, yes. We haven't baked audio cassettes ourselves, nor video tapes, but anecdotally I've heard of people doing it and it not ruining the tapes. Whether it restores them I can't say.
If the tape is a pancake that is not on a reel, yes, you can lay it directly on the wire rack. You can also disassemble a reel and place the pancake on a flange so that it's fully supported, which is a good idea if the tape pack is loose so that you don't risk it unspooling when you are taking it in and out of the oven.
Good luck!
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial Great - thanks! Good info. So - let me ask - I have read that the good news is that acetate base tape - is not prone to Sticky Shed Syndrome - is that what you understand or have found? Are there any problems associated with the acetate base tape?- and is there a remedy for that (as you can't bake it)?
@@bj3692 Yes, acetate base tape doesn't exhibit sticky shed. There are other ways it can degrade, though. Check out Richard Hess' site (link in the video description). The most common degradation for acetate base is "vinegar syndrome." It can also leave some residue on the heads and in the tape path.
I wanted to ask one more question -- I can't seem to find any picture of this on the internet - so maybe you tell me. As it relates to Acetate tape - visually which side is the bind and which is the oxide. So - on the four tapes I have - both sides are brown - but one is matte and the other is shiny. The shiny side is wound OUT on all 4 tapes I have - and the matte is inside. On all polyester - the shiny brown side is the oxide side. SOOOOOO - if the shiny brown is also the oxide side on Acetate tape and well -- then I guess my tapes have been would this way for some purpose? I know in the film business - we reverse the emulsion direction for archive storage. Perhaps this is done with tape as well? Thanks so much for your help. --- I really don't want to do anything with these tapes until I know which end is up!
@@bj3692 it's possible the tape is not back coated. If it's from before 1970 you can bet on it. Audio tape is never intentionally stored with the magnetic coating out, as it would require manually flipping the tape and hand winding it onto a reel for storage that way, and then flipping and hand-unwinding it back to normal for playback. We sometimes encounter tapes that have been stored that way accidentally, but never intentionally. so try playing it as it was stored.
Bummer you're not in LA. I have a 2" tape that's about 30-years old that I'd love to transfer the tracks to digital but I don't have the equipment at home and it's very hard to find an all-in-one studio here that can bake and digitize tape.
You can ship us a tape for bake & transfer- we do this pretty regularly. Email us for more info, contact info on our website.
Thanks!
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial - Thanks for the reply. I'll check your site.
You can do plastic reels?
Yes!
What about Ampeg 407 1/4 inch tape 7inch reel, can they be baked?
407 can be baked, yes, and should be if you are certain it needs to be!
Sorry if it's a stupid question, but does the method work with music cassettes too?
Never crossed my mind that cassettes could develop sticky-shed, but after 2 minutes of Googling, I see some reports that it restored some folks' cassettes. It wouldn't hurt as long as you mind keeping the temperature low enough. And bear in mind- baking only "restores" tapes temporarily, so if you have important work on cassettes, bake them and transfer them immediately.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial , no issues with baking a plastic enclosure tape at the same temperature? Likewise, can you bake a tape on a plastic reel or must be metal?
When you clean the heads, you should not do it in a vertical motion, doing this puts strain on the head laminations and can damage them. You should clean them from side to side (the same way the tape moves over them). Apart from that, this is a well made and informative video. Thank you for making it.
Hello, this is how I was instructed to wipe heads, as well. However, our tech Greg Norman advises wiping vertically because there is conductive epoxy that can degrade with alcohol contact when you wipe horizontally. I defer to Greg since he maintains our machines!
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial Aha, I never knew this. However, I wonder to which machines this applies. I wouldn't have thought the ATR would have those kind of heads. I had one but cant remember. Would be great if you get some more info from Greg on this. Cheers!
you ever come across the back-coated ampex 478 from the early-mid 90s, rebadged as quantegy after about 1996?
I have loads of it, in 1/4", & the issue it has is that the binder holding the black antistatic back-coating on has turned into sticky goo, causing the squealing, sluggish transport, head-gap occlusion & so forth. the problem (with baking) is that the front (oxide) surface of the tape has bits of the back-coating stuck to it. baking on its own wouldn't get rid of these chunks, & in fact may make them adhere permanently.
the oxide surface itself is fine, absolutely solid.
the solution I arrived at, after experimenting with various methods, is to spool the tape back & forth on a 'utility' deck (a modified revox a77 with flat deck), missing out the head block & just going between the two reels, & with the tape pinched, by hand, into a cotton-wool pad soaked in naphtha (white spirit). this way, you can feel the bumps of the crap on the tape as they come off. I repeat this up to ten or a dozen times per reel, until the pad is clean & the tape feels smooth.... it takes over an hour to do 2400' reels. at no time does any oxide come off- all that stays in the pads is black, not brown. the tapes then play ok, & can be digitised or whatever, & in my experience (so far) they stay good afterwards.
again, this is 478, back-coated, & it is what works for me. I have not tried baking these tapes, & I would be fearful of trying this while there is back-coating adhered to the playing surface; my method works for this particular situation.
also- might be good to upload an example of the worst tape you can find, so that folks can hear the transport squealing & also the modulation on the audio that you get as the tape sticks to the head while being dragged across it. it is pretty heart-breaking to hear a master ruined like this.
there was a lot of work done on this by a kiwi lady, link here, which set me on the path of *not* baking as a fix:
richardhess.com/notes/author/marie_oconnell/
Baking will (should) prevent the adherence of back coating to the mag coating in the first place. Once the coatings have been pulled off the binder, it becomes a much, much longer process, hence the standard of testing and baking before we do anything else to tapes exhibiting symptoms of sticky-shed.
I usually use BBQ sauce after the baking process, makes it yumm
What is the audio track in this video?
The recurring music with the drums and the twinkly synth is Whadup Sonnn, which is Ed Bornstein and Rob Frye in this incarnation. They make music primarily to license for video, and they're buds! Ed shoots a lot of our videos.
I think I was always using 88% or 93% but was still told I should wait a while before using the deck.
I need someone to bake like 60 different size reel to reels. Can you tell me who would do that?
If you're in Chicago, we would do it. Otherwise, there may be a taxidermist you could find locally, or you could buy an oven yourself, which would almost certainly be cheaper than shipping to someone both ways and paying for baking.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial I could be ok with shipping costs considering theyv3 been in storage over 20 years
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial my moms from Chicago..spent a lot of time there as a kid ☺
I’d probably drive
@@themysticeye1 Email us and we can discuss! Contact info at electricalaudio.com.
Do you ever cook more than one tape at a time?
Yes! In our oven, we can fit three tapes on 10.5" reels, or a few more that are on 7" reels or below. The oven seems to need longer to bake the more we "load" it with more tapes, so there's a trade-off.
Wow, thanks for the quick reply. Ordered an oven and I have been putting off transferring a lot of history but here we go...thanks to you.
Can you use a gas oven?
I have never tried, but I think you could, as long as you can get the temperature down low enough, and there is air constantly circulating. Shouldn't matter what's creating the heat.
Acetate tape is transparent when the reel is looked at sideways. Acetate can be physically wiped/cleaned with Renuzit, or Alcohol, according to some folks. Polyester is opaque.
I have wiped the sides of dirty/moldy acetate tape pancakes with both alcohol and diluted hydrogen peroxide, to no immediately bad effects. But I have not tried the actual oxide surface of the tape and I’m not sure I would try on something valuable. In either case I think there is a chance alcohol may dry out the tape and that is something you do not want, so cleaning like that is a last resort IMO. Good acetate tape will remain supple even after 70 years. Dry tape turns brittle and curls up - you’ll often see this on the outer layers of tapes that were never leadered, where they are most exposed.
Couple things to note about ovens. I agree that a correct oven is critical, but FWIW, a fair number of higher end modern kitchen ovens now have a proper dehydrate feature. My Electrolux does. It gives very precise temperature control in 5 degree steps. It has a convection fan to circulate air to actually remove the humidity that is baked out of the tape, and the interior is quite spacious. I can do 6 10.5 reels no problem. A couple other points for folks to consider. It is not a point of religion, but I still prefer to put my tape on an NAB sized hub and an aluminum reel. First, I just don't trust plastic reels to keep their shape, even at only 135 F., second the aluminum flange more quickly and evenly spreads the heat across the pack as compared to plastic, and third the larger hub puts less stress on the inner winds of the tape. Just my opinion. Not sure where you came up with your times, but I have good results with 1/4" 80's Ampex 456 at 135 for about 4 hours. 12 hours seems like a very very long bake to me, but that's just me. Trust that you've done your research and you make a lot of good points in your video.
Also, when cleaning heads, I never use the same cleaning tip on more than one head surface. I also use DENATURED alcohol, not IPA. A Menda bottle is real handy too. Beyond that, I often use zero lint makeup pads rather than Q-tips. They're just faster and make far less lint. And, with makeup pads, you can use ACETONE on the rollers and guides - which cleans the gunk about ten times faster than alcohol ever will - without dripping like Q-tips. Of course, do NOT use Acetone on a head-stack or rubber parts, and be aware that Acetone will melt cheap plastic trim parts on some machines - like a Tascam 32, etc. duh.
FWIW, I've been using RTR technology since 1967. I cut my teeth on 2" MCI and 1/2 Sculley 30ips 280's, and I currently have nine reel to reel machines. These cover the gamut from a mono 1 3/4 Voice of Music to a 30 IPS Studer A80 MkII. Again, I think you make a lot of good points in your video. Good to see the young guys getting into RTR technology, before the old geezers like me die off. :-)
Yes, if you have a good oven with a dehydrate feature and a convection fan, and the oven can get down to 130F, go for it. Most household ovens don't have any of the three.
Also completely agree that aluminum reels are way superior in every way to plastic. However, when we get reels in for baking, they often come in on plastic reels. The risk of winding a sticky tape and pulling off the mag coating is the paramount concern, meaning we can't transfer from a plastic reel to an aluminum one, which is why we always bake tapes on the reels they arrive in.
We use medical grade q-tips that don't shed any lint. We replace when they appear even remotely soiled.
Our bake times come from experience. Many tapes are ok after a one-day bake at 130F, but we're finding a lot of 456 and Scotch 250 tapes that need baking 3, 5, 7, or even 10-14 days and repeated bakes to be playable safely.
I always understood that tape path and heads should be cleaned horizontally not vertically.
There have been a number of comments about this recently. I was taught to wipe horizontally, as well, but our tech Greg asks us to wipe heads vertically, as he says there is conductive epoxy at the edges of the heads that will degrade with contact with alcohol. He mentions this is another video.
What about cassettes?
Indeed. A question for the ages!
You don't let the heads dry for a good while after hitting them with alcohol?? I would be afraid the left-over alcohol would damage the tape! For that matter, after I clean each head, I dry it with a dry Q-Tip so I don't have to wait as long for it to dry!
"Shedding" (rather than, "sheddiness") will suffice.
We use 99% isopropyl alcohol, which evaporates in moments. If you brush some on a flat metal metal surface with a q-tip you can see how quickly it evaporates.
I did that with my air-fryer... it can go to 130F. Alas it does not run for 24 hours.
Wild! Did it work? Most 1/4" and even 1/2" tapes don't need the full 24 hours, I'm finding. Some do, though, and the amount of degradation is dependent on an inseparable mixture of storage conditions, formula, etc. etc.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial it did run a lot better, no squealing at all. though it was 1/4" tape on a 7" reel, not sure if a 10" one would fit.
Be careful with tape baking. we had some tapes baked at a professional facility and it completely changed the sound infidelity of the audio in fact many large tape libraries already knew this and have turned to other means of tape restoration. we also have tried the ' nu finish' car spray and we think that the results are better than baking tapes be very very careful
GP9 at 425 for 30 minutes. Remove and spread some butter. Enjoy!
......aaaaaand he's wearing the same shirt on day 2.
(and, don't try to say it was movie magic)
Let's get baked dude.
69F
Too much dedication and effort to transfer into 16 bits 44 kHz 😂 Hope all this transfer are done into 32bit 382 kHz for minimum, Wav could be acceptable. 🎉🎉🎉
„Wipe your head with alcohol“ …done
Funny the best Magnetic recording company, AMPEX made horrible tape. I have used many, many tapes. And the most consistent was 3M.
I restore 2" quad video tape machines and I will never play a tape w/o baking. The very delicate video heads can get clogged easily and even the control track head (which is mounted on the video head assembly) can get clogged and throw off the servo mechanisms. You dont want to be 80 min into a 90 min reel and have clogs!
We only discovered problems were common with 456 many years after they manufactured it. They weren't knowingly making the tape in bad faith.
Scotch 250 is equally problematic in our experience, and some of the most degraded tapes we've ever seen were 250.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial in video tape ampex tape was bad. The only thing worse was Fuji tape which only lasted about 6 plays then it fell apart.
3M had a winning formula in both audio and video tape. It was very consistant
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial have any 1/4 10.5” reels of 3M 250 laying around? Some of the later production runs came on nice 6 screw precision NAB reels, I’ll gladly take that junk tape off your hands 😂
@@MrRom92DAW We do not. We have one precision reel and we are keeping it!
i’m a tape baker
You omitted to state the temperature unit. The whole world doesn't use Fahrenheit you know?
While that is a fair point, you simply cannot bake tape at 130 degrees Celsius in a food dehydrator.
I don't believe it works some one tried to take my fathers band reels regards Baroness von Kuchler Winchester Mcgladdery
Bohemian rhapsody anyone?
Taylor Hales, you're handsome! 😍😍
And you are creepy.
How dare he go overallless.
My girlfriend wants to bake all my tapes.
Thought that was an interesting video until the tech is cleaning the heads with a qtip and just wiggling it all over the heads….maybe something overlooked?
Not sure what you mean, the demonstration in the video was a proper, real head cleaning. We wipe vertically because our tech has cautioned us that there is epoxy near the edges that will wear down over time with alcohol exposure. The heads one contact tape at an extremely narrow point, unless they are worn.
You're not cleaning the heads properly! You should go "with the grain" as in from left to right. When you go top to bottom, that is "against the grain" and isn't correct.
Hi there. As you'll see in our other videos, our tech Greg suggests cleaning vertically because cleaning horizontally "with the grain" will place alcohol on the epoxy in the heads which can degrade them. Thanks for watching.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial I totally disagree with that.