Anything can happen but you'd have to provide some value for people to go for it. It takes some very creative thinking to think what that could possibly be with the tech we currently have. Also there's a real issue with subscription fatigue now, so it wouldn't be surprising to see less subscription offering over the next 10 years after the boom we've had.
@@mat_from_ballarathis comment on the downtube is spot on. I recently bought a 2018 model with same headtube/downtube shape and it gets messy in gusts of wind or when a small to large truck goes by. These modern day 'aero' shaped frames are hilarious.
@@DavidStacey-tx7on I think that's the same shape as mine, with the pure box section down tube. Not a single thing is aero about it. It's pretty much anti-aero. It's still the most enjoyable bike I've ever ridden though.
@@mat_from_ballarat agreed. Upgraded from my 2011 Tarmac Pro which was so nice to ride and wind was never an issue. Apart from that now I get the hype over TCR's, it is a joy and a weapon. Original Venge, Propel, VIAS Venge, Sololist, they were proper aero bikes that came at a massive cost in comfort, everyone wanted aero but cried when it hurt their vagina's so they brainwashed the sheep into believing modern tube shapes are aero
This weekend I rode De Ronde Van Vlaanderen for juniors and on the first cobbelsection my whole cockpit came loose and because the Shimano neutral service just rode by me and didn’t give me a bike I had to Abandon my A-priority race after 10km with 5km neutralised included.
Giant would never loan me a TCR even though Ive probably sold them hundreds 😂. Definitely this is the continuation of phasing out 2x by SRAM. Just fits their consolidation/lean model. They may aswell dump this derailleur and just use the xplr. Would work for everything
If I want to run 1x for an event I undo 4 bolts and stick on a 1x chainring that cost about £80. Remove the front mech and push the di2 cable back into the frame and either fit a rubber bung or a bit of tape over the hole. To do the same with Sram Red means a whole new powermeter.
I gotta leave an obligatory comment to support the show, so here's my thoughts: 1: The Nero show is finally in the community of presenters testing embargoed products. That's a huge accomplishment. 2: Even though I personally would never spend so much on a groupset, the push back against counter culture cycling is great. All this pandering to people who think we should still be riding on 30 lb steel bikes with 5 gears and bar end shifters just ruins the video lol.
I’m going to be that old guy that says your experience at the fondo would likely have been better if you were riding a mechanical groupset. 40 years of riding and I’ve only had a derailleur fail on one occasion due to a snapped cable that was probably 12 years old. I’m sure electronic shifting is lovely but mechanical is comforting.
sram rival was released 3 years ago with a smaller hood shape, new Red however seems to be quite different so it looks like Red skipped the generation and new force and rival will eventually get updated to this new design
Hey guys, love the podcast. I run SRAM red and the classified hub on my race bike. I was messing with settings and messaged classified with a query which they were helping with, while I had their attention I specifically asked if they had integration plans for SRAM, to which they said 'we are open to integrating with all groupset manufacturers' and 'we have no Concrete plans we can share at this point' then '😉' I'd say that is pretty close to a yes as they were ever going to say lol...
I still think it all comes down to the front derailleur. I could care less about marginal weight drops and hood ergonomics when I hesitate to even use my front derailleur because I fear it will drop a chain. Shifting is the main job of a groupset, and no amount of flash and detail could ever outweigh shifting performance. I haven't ridden the new Red, but if what Chris said about the front derailleur is true, I think Shimano is still the superior groupset.
Yep. I wouldn’t buy a SRAM 2x groupset because for what is essentially the same money, Shimano won’t pitch chains unless something goes terribly wrong. And if I buy a groupset for Red/Dura Ace level money, and it fails on such a basic function, I’d be furious.
I wouldn’t say that. Shimano drops chains all the time. Happened to me twice sprinting the other week nearly causing me to crash. That was Dura-Ace DI2 12 speed.
@@robbieroockley3664Surely a set up issue at play here? I’m running 105 and Ultegra di2 12 spd and never had a single drop to the inside or throw over the crank arm on either system. Ultegra 6800 before was the same.
The TCR talk just highlights the strange asymmetry of bike reviews between Chris and Jesse. Jesse giving feedback on a disc TCR after years on rim would have more salience than Chris's input, him having lived with discs since their advent on road, the audience better able to anticipate what he's going to say about a given product. It'd also be more realistic. Plenty more roadies in Jesse's position than Chris's.
That depends on how unbiased he would be. Plenty of people who ride rim brakes have very strong opinions on discs without ever riding them. Shock eh? Roadies having super strong views on stuff they don't like and have never tried. I agree I would like to hear both of their views but I don't think that Jessies would necessarily be any more worthwhile.
On your discussion on the Classified Hub, on my Stages SB20, I can change the gearing on the fly as I am riding if I am having a horrible leg day, I can go to smaller chain ring(s) and larger cogs if I am riding a climbing route in Rouvy. It is fantastic. If they can do this with the Classified, it could be a game changer.
Love the product development chat. PD is has all sorts of gotchas in it. One good reason to put out the lower tier stuff first is to protect the reputation of the higher level product that uses the same design elements. A case in point where it failed was the original Red Fder with the titanium cage. You want rigidity for front shifts and titanium is inherently springy. It also gives time to make changes from and show stopper feedback.
Your derailleur issue reminded me that a mate of mine’s di2 shat itself just before Amy’s Grand Fondo last year. He got around despite being stuck in the big ring and only able to access four of the rear cogs
And there was me thinking a groupset was all about big gears, little gears ….. and (having once run Campagnolo EPS) reliability…. am now educated ! As you say Chris - Shimano + assiomas + Wahoo for life for me !
You probably have a bad cable to the rear deraileur- I had an intermittent issue with my rear deraileur on di2 at one point that happened pretty much exactly like you described and it was just a cable that was broken - the wire itself was disconnected internally but the sheathing of the wire held it pretty well in place to it only disconnected intermittently.
Di2 issue. I have had similar before and it turned out I had squeezed one of the cables by running my handlebar bag with more than normal. It’s very rare to have a Di2 issue and I have 10’s of thousands of perfectly reliable kms. Sram stuff, not so much…
SRAM also owns Zipp , just a frame away of al full SRAM bike. "The package of the s5-reserve wheels" Chris keeps meatriding may just be taken on another level
The extra button is actually (for me) a huge deal. Every time i move back and forth between my DA and Ultegra (road bikes) and my SRAM bike (Gravel 1x12 XPLR) The two WORST parts are the brakes and the lack of ability to change my Garmin screens without taking my hands off the bars. I'll be buying the shifters/brake combo and swapping onto my existing bike, and ignoring the rest. I'll drop weight and quite literally be safer because I'll be able to be more secure on the bike.
At this stage all they do is shift the rear cassette, but my guess is that is only a firmware update away (or maybe a subscription to the new SRAM Platinum 😁)
@ChrisMillerCycling I was with the SRAM rep tonight and I hear that they will be able to control other HUs shortly. Take that with however big a grain of salt as you desire, I certainly will.
I’ve got Red eTap 1st gen on a bike from 2017, I find it amazing that 7yrs on they are still “claiming” improved front shift performance. 1st gen eTap was really fussy in terms of set up, if all the planets aligned then it might shift really well, but thrown chains and sluggish shifts were the norm unfortunately. SRAM adopted the 13t gap with AXS to try and get around this, that didn’t work, so now I think they are pushing the 1X system so much, I believe they will in time integrate with Classified too. Interestingly I got my etap to work flawlessly by installing a Shimano chainset, since that day it’s been great, still not fast but it’s at least accurate and reliable. I’ve got 105 11spd on my winter bike and Ultegra di2 12spd on my newest bike and honestly I don’t see any reason to move away from Shimano if I was getting another bike, if Shimano figure out a way of putting the batteries in the mechs it will be close to the perfect group set.
Force and Ultegra have always been the sweet spot in terms of price and performance and specs. Weight can always be offset anywhere in the bike, but a bit more sturdy powertrain that I would prefer.
SRAM - over a decade dropping chains. 1x and axs gearing all to get around making a proper front mech. Slowest chain in the biz. 28:10 Subscribe to shift 🤣
@@petersouthernboy6327 Do you think these groupsets have to be priced so high? It is the degenerate result of irrational consumption. Those who are willing to scam themselves by buying overpriced cycling equipment are the ones who are truly hurting "the rest of us."
Gutted for you Chris, Would have been great for the event to get some exposure it deserves. Is there really any advantage having electronic shifting over mechanical on high vibration gravel surface ??
Also. I’m riding a 2022 Scott Addict RC with Ultegra and a Tarmac SL7 with rival (but with Red cranks to save weight ). This is really not even a conversation , both are so great. Personally I’m with Shimano though.
Very unspecific on the sram history guys: 1) 28 to 36t compatibility is kinda a deal because old sram red axs first came with a max 33t rd and then later launched a 36t rd. 2) Rival was actually the first to get the new hoods, then force D2. But this is a much bigger reworking with pad clearance and buttons. Definitely worth it to gear heads over force D2 if cash is no object. 3) All axs rear derailleurs in force or red level always came with orbit fluid damping 4) Backward compatibility on 12spd axs definitely is a step up over shimano for the rim brake guys that can stay with the "old" rim brake shifters and as well everyone can just switch to the new front derailleur with time. Only swithing the hoods probably won't work well with the old calipers. Or the hoods are anyways just available as a kit with the calipers
It would be interesting to know how the TCR would feel in comparison against both the giant tyres and the S5 if you use the same tyres that you run on the S5.
I think you are right, as much as I want to test the "package" with the Cadex tyres, I really want to get the feel of the bike with the same rubber to the S5.
@@ChrisMillerCyclingin regards to the continued crappy SRAM front shifting have you thought of running a Shimano DA crank and rings to see if it is better
If anyone wants to know , the Specialized SL7 definitely has better bump compliance than the Scott Addict. I feel like the Scott climbs better and it’s my first choice , but the SL7 is more comfortable over bumpy roads and it’s also much more responsive.
Jesse, you've suggested that Sram has already got everything out of owning 'Today's Plan' when mentioning its imminent closure. With Sram now including a Hammerhead unit within their new Red groupset, could they be going to do something to combine both?
I'm totally sold on the new TCR (minus the ISP) but still can't get past the price. I'll go the new Tavelo Arrow or Attack. Also Shimano are going wireless, I'll wait for that to come out then pick up older Dura Ace for a bagain 👍
So guys the price quoted $7k Aud does that include, cassette, cranks and chain rings? How does it compare to Shimano Dura-Ace cost wise? Cheers love the show.
My guess on the release cycle for SRAM, being more Apple like. Apple has been starting off with new generations of chips in the IPhone and then moving the tech to lower volume products like MacBook Air. For SRAM Force might be their biggest profit area, so start there, then have those features trickle up to Red and down to Apex.
You missed one of my main arguments for SRAM going with Classified. Sequential shifting. That's the big one for me. Give me 24 gears in a linear progression.
Chris, bummer about WA all is not lost, get your ass to Bright on the 8-9th June for the weekend of CX and gravel. And start training for the Dirty Warrny!
The trickle up it is weird, but I can see it. Start with the lower models (Rival got the small hoods even before force) see how people like, and improve and debug as it moves to the higher end ones. Much like cars do. New Porsche 911 generations comes out, but only the base version, then a year later a GTS comes out, and then another year the GT3 comes out.
GS it depends on individual, Shimano shift smoother , to those who like to drive an automatic LEXUS or MERC because is comfort. Campy is those who like 911, BMW M performance, Manual sports car. Sram is in between this 2.
Bugger, was looking forward to a Seven event report. Don't be too hard on yourself Chris, yes you should have half a clue about bike maintenance and repairs BUT when the Di2 goes off often you are stuffed and that's when you realise how sometimes the tech completely screws us over. When it works it's brilliant, but when there are issues it's a bit a of black box
49:24 Why couldn’t AI evaluate your route (obviously loaded on your Karoo), know your preferred cadence and adjust the gearing without your input. Erg mode on the road. Single speed but all the speeds. What gear are you in?…sorry that’s Classified.
Hey guys, the German YT channel Rad Race visited the SRAM development unit in Germany and interviewed one of the key engineers (this part is in English): ruclips.net/video/g_l_olZqr7E/видео.html One interesting bit was that part of the clunky front derailleur ergonomics was due to design limitiations because of rim brake compatibility: ruclips.net/video/g_l_olZqr7E/видео.html Also orbit fluid is not new, old Red AXS already had it. It's their version of a clutch.
ganna is Height 6′ 4″, Weight 181 lbs. one of the best tt riders in the world he lost to pogo 5'9, 140lbs, in a time trial, imagine the difference in ftp. and this means the classified hub is good? nah
@@taxi9554 must've been substantial vert for the end to trump the rest of the course. But big guys can keep good power up climbs for shorter lengths too. Maybe he was fatigued from the previous stages too. Meanwhile pog is solo breakawaying stage wins.
I live in a hilly country. I have 34/32. I wish I had 34/34. If I am going so fast that I need a higher gear, as a hobby rider I am already going too fast (for reference, my max was 80km/h on an alpine descent, a completely straight part of the descent, almost no cars and not too steep).
Xplr stays. Red is just positioned more as a cross over groupset for riders who want a top end bike that can be used all road. Power meter is available on all chainring configurations.
Yes I use SRAM Force XPLR.. double shift is for AXS dropper. For Jesse.. the classified cassette is extremely light in my opinion.. no savings there. It's all the internals of the hub. Maybe they can trim a little from the hub shell and thuraxle.. but not much.
@@taxi9554 there is some weight penalty but it all depends on what your were using. For me it's a little over 100g. My 2x chainrings were heavy already.
re the unusual _'trickle up'_ release: the rumour mill last year was full of speculation that Sram and their distributors had a vast glut of unsold Red to try and clear before releasing this, hence all those deep discount sales and this release being delayed.
If Sram goes the subscription mode. I am out. All this proprietary crap locking you in i absolute rubish. Having features on a groupset that are locked for Wahoo and Garmin users, and only works with Karoo, Similar to how the apple watch works crap with anything but an iPhone. Another no.
How hard would it be for JC to do a little research on existing components before starting reviewing new groupset based on photos and manufactures nomenclature?? Sram had the fluid clutch for years, any of their axs derailleurs work 2x or 1x but Red was always limited on how big of a cassette could clear . Armchair experts at work
Imma keep it real with you Cheif, there is no way in hell I am paying any subscription for something that is already installed on my bike.
what do you mean? what is the subscription?
Many would have said the same thing about TV years ago. I'm against it but it could happen
The „shitification“ is well and truly upon us even in the cycling industry.
Anything can happen but you'd have to provide some value for people to go for it. It takes some very creative thinking to think what that could possibly be with the tech we currently have. Also there's a real issue with subscription fatigue now, so it wouldn't be surprising to see less subscription offering over the next 10 years after the boom we've had.
Watching this whilst sipping on my Pillar Performance recovery drink. Fully embracing the Nero Cycling eco-system.
HAHA!!! Sugar flasks for dessert?
But do you sit in your Nero skin suit?!
Sram rival started with the smallest hoods, then force now red @@ChrisMillerCycling
@@hemi265mustardThese look a bit different to Rival though.
Jesse really needs to have a go on that TCR! I for one would love his take on it compared to his rim brake TCR.
I agree, for purely selfish reasons in that I have the same frame as Jesse. I'd never buy a new TCR at that price, but I'm still curious.
@@mat_from_ballarathis comment on the downtube is spot on. I recently bought a 2018 model with same headtube/downtube shape and it gets messy in gusts of wind or when a small to large truck goes by. These modern day 'aero' shaped frames are hilarious.
@@DavidStacey-tx7on I think that's the same shape as mine, with the pure box section down tube. Not a single thing is aero about it. It's pretty much anti-aero. It's still the most enjoyable bike I've ever ridden though.
@@mat_from_ballarat agreed. Upgraded from my 2011 Tarmac Pro which was so nice to ride and wind was never an issue. Apart from that now I get the hype over TCR's, it is a joy and a weapon. Original Venge, Propel, VIAS Venge, Sololist, they were proper aero bikes that came at a massive cost in comfort, everyone wanted aero but cried when it hurt their vagina's so they brainwashed the sheep into believing modern tube shapes are aero
There is no comparison. One is a bike the other is not.
This weekend I rode De Ronde Van Vlaanderen for juniors and on the first cobbelsection my whole cockpit came loose and because the Shimano neutral service just rode by me and didn’t give me a bike I had to Abandon my A-priority race after 10km with 5km neutralised included.
Giant would never loan me a TCR even though Ive probably sold them hundreds 😂. Definitely this is the continuation of phasing out 2x by SRAM. Just fits their consolidation/lean model. They may aswell dump this derailleur and just use the xplr. Would work for everything
Oh I never looked at it that way ... could we be going down the path of "One Derailleur To Rule Them All"
@@ChrisMillerCycling 🤣🤣🤣 don't tell JC!!!!
Really enjoyed this episode, just felt like 2 mates chatting about bikes, 10/10 guys👌🏾👌🏾👌🏾
If I want to run 1x for an event I undo 4 bolts and stick on a 1x chainring that cost about £80. Remove the front mech and push the di2 cable back into the frame and either fit a rubber bung or a bit of tape over the hole. To do the same with Sram Red means a whole new powermeter.
O man, that's shady, telling your mate that he can't ride the new Giant because he just rides rim-brake Giants. 🤣
I gotta leave an obligatory comment to support the show, so here's my thoughts:
1: The Nero show is finally in the community of presenters testing embargoed products. That's a huge accomplishment.
2: Even though I personally would never spend so much on a groupset, the push back against counter culture cycling is great. All this pandering to people who think we should still be riding on 30 lb steel bikes with 5 gears and bar end shifters just ruins the video lol.
And here's my obligatory comment thanking you for the comment 😀
For someone without JC's power numbers who is living in a hilly location, I love my 35-36 combo at times!
They already have Orbit fluid damper since the 1st AXS groupset release.
It works like a clutch but uses fluid damper to mitigate impacts.
And it does not work on gravel!
@@mf0u3021 Explain why. Force, Red and XPLR have the same fluid clutch.
I’ve only used Red. And it doesn’t work. I can’t explain why.
@@mf0u3021 maybe the damping is too soft?
Yep probably. My GX eagle AXS is fine on the same terrain.
I’m going to be that old guy that says your experience at the fondo would likely have been better if you were riding a mechanical groupset. 40 years of riding and I’ve only had a derailleur fail on one occasion due to a snapped cable that was probably 12 years old. I’m sure electronic shifting is lovely but mechanical is comforting.
sram rival was released 3 years ago with a smaller hood shape, new Red however seems to be quite different so it looks like Red skipped the generation and new force and rival will eventually get updated to this new design
Hey guys, love the podcast. I run SRAM red and the classified hub on my race bike.
I was messing with settings and messaged classified with a query which they were helping with, while I had their attention I specifically asked if they had integration plans for SRAM, to which they said 'we are open to integrating with all groupset manufacturers' and 'we have no Concrete plans we can share at this point' then '😉'
I'd say that is pretty close to a yes as they were ever going to say lol...
Very interesting. thanks man.
I still think it all comes down to the front derailleur. I could care less about marginal weight drops and hood ergonomics when I hesitate to even use my front derailleur because I fear it will drop a chain. Shifting is the main job of a groupset, and no amount of flash and detail could ever outweigh shifting performance. I haven't ridden the new Red, but if what Chris said about the front derailleur is true, I think Shimano is still the superior groupset.
Like I said, Shimano FD shift is superior
Yep. I wouldn’t buy a SRAM 2x groupset because for what is essentially the same money, Shimano won’t pitch chains unless something goes terribly wrong. And if I buy a groupset for Red/Dura Ace level money, and it fails on such a basic function, I’d be furious.
I wouldn’t say that. Shimano drops chains all the time. Happened to me twice sprinting the other week nearly causing me to crash. That was Dura-Ace DI2 12 speed.
@@robbieroockley3664Surely a set up issue at play here? I’m running 105 and Ultegra di2 12 spd and never had a single drop to the inside or throw over the crank arm on either system. Ultegra 6800 before was the same.
The chain drop issue seems to be less of a thing since the new Force
One of the best episodes so far. Really fun to watch
The TCR talk just highlights the strange asymmetry of bike reviews between Chris and Jesse. Jesse giving feedback on a disc TCR after years on rim would have more salience than Chris's input, him having lived with discs since their advent on road, the audience better able to anticipate what he's going to say about a given product. It'd also be more realistic. Plenty more roadies in Jesse's position than Chris's.
That depends on how unbiased he would be. Plenty of people who ride rim brakes have very strong opinions on discs without ever riding them. Shock eh? Roadies having super strong views on stuff they don't like and have never tried.
I agree I would like to hear both of their views but I don't think that Jessies would necessarily be any more worthwhile.
Really enjoyed this one guys, great talk! And the gloves look good enough to make an effort and avoid crashing in the races
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great show team, you shift a lot Jessie. At the end of the day it comes down what looks good and gearing options
On your discussion on the Classified Hub, on my Stages SB20, I can change the gearing on the fly as I am riding if I am having a horrible leg day, I can go to smaller chain ring(s) and larger cogs if I am riding a climbing route in Rouvy. It is fantastic. If they can do this with the Classified, it could be a game changer.
Love the product development chat. PD is has all sorts of gotchas in it. One good reason to put out the lower tier stuff first is to protect the reputation of the higher level product that uses the same design elements. A case in point where it failed was the original Red Fder with the titanium cage. You want rigidity for front shifts and titanium is inherently springy. It also gives time to make changes from and show stopper feedback.
The TCR is an icon, they should NEVER change it…i can see me riding them once again after my SL7 retires
Your derailleur issue reminded me that a mate of mine’s di2 shat itself just before Amy’s Grand Fondo last year. He got around despite being stuck in the big ring and only able to access four of the rear cogs
Thank you for the detailed sram first look. Love the backwards compatibility on the new sram. Gonna try these new hoods as well 🫶
Wieder überall :D
No problem 👍
I'm happy to ride on a simple mechanical 11-speed groupset 🙏 It just works!
And there was me thinking a groupset was all about big gears, little gears ….. and (having once run Campagnolo EPS) reliability…. am now educated ! As you say Chris - Shimano + assiomas + Wahoo for life for me !
Merci!
Just ordered the new skin suit and was waiting for it for quite some time. Love your podcast 👌
Awesome! Thank you!
You probably have a bad cable to the rear deraileur- I had an intermittent issue with my rear deraileur on di2 at one point that happened pretty much exactly like you described and it was just a cable that was broken - the wire itself was disconnected internally but the sheathing of the wire held it pretty well in place to it only disconnected intermittently.
Jesse is a genius at sniffing out the marketing bullshlt.
Best episode yet 🎉🎉🎉🎉 Well done lads
I'll take Shimano's crash mode over SRAM's rear derailleur needing a firmware update on the start line before it would begin shifting again
My sram wireless mtb rear derailleur on my gravel bike did stop working once on a ride but removing the battery for a couple seconds fixed it.
"I got my groupset out of the tip" hahaha
Fantastic callback
"poking it with a stick"... nice work..
😁
Di2 issue.
I have had similar before and it turned out I had squeezed one of the cables by running my handlebar bag with more than normal.
It’s very rare to have a Di2 issue and I have 10’s of thousands of perfectly reliable kms.
Sram stuff, not so much…
SRAM also owns Zipp , just a frame away of al full SRAM bike. "The package of the s5-reserve wheels" Chris keeps meatriding may just be taken on another level
@@whatsuphonkycat time the pedal brand, not the frame brand
The extra button is actually (for me) a huge deal. Every time i move back and forth between my DA and Ultegra (road bikes) and my SRAM bike (Gravel 1x12 XPLR) The two WORST parts are the brakes and the lack of ability to change my Garmin screens without taking my hands off the bars.
I'll be buying the shifters/brake combo and swapping onto my existing bike, and ignoring the rest. I'll drop weight and quite literally be safer because I'll be able to be more secure on the bike.
I’m not 100% sure that the new shifter buttons can operate Garmin screens. I thought I heard another video say they can’t but I might be wrong.
At this stage all they do is shift the rear cassette, but my guess is that is only a firmware update away (or maybe a subscription to the new SRAM Platinum 😁)
@ChrisMillerCycling I was with the SRAM rep tonight and I hear that they will be able to control other HUs shortly. Take that with however big a grain of salt as you desire, I certainly will.
I’ve got Red eTap 1st gen on a bike from 2017, I find it amazing that 7yrs on they are still “claiming” improved front shift performance.
1st gen eTap was really fussy in terms of set up, if all the planets aligned then it might shift really well, but thrown chains and sluggish shifts were the norm unfortunately.
SRAM adopted the 13t gap with AXS to try and get around this, that didn’t work, so now I think they are pushing the 1X system so much, I believe they will in time integrate with Classified too.
Interestingly I got my etap to work flawlessly by installing a Shimano chainset, since that day it’s been great, still not fast but it’s at least accurate and reliable.
I’ve got 105 11spd on my winter bike and Ultegra di2 12spd on my newest bike and honestly I don’t see any reason to move away from Shimano if I was getting another bike, if Shimano figure out a way of putting the batteries in the mechs it will be close to the perfect group set.
Force and Ultegra have always been the sweet spot in terms of price and performance and specs. Weight can always be offset anywhere in the bike, but a bit more sturdy powertrain that I would prefer.
SRAM - over a decade dropping chains. 1x and axs gearing all to get around making a proper front mech.
Slowest chain in the biz.
28:10 Subscribe to shift 🤣
21:00 trickle up technology lol love it
£4k grouoset is what the struggling cycling industry that’s on its arse has been crying out for 🤦♂️
If you’re “struggling” - then it’s Apex for you. Don’t begrudge the rest of us.
@@petersouthernboy6327 Do you think these groupsets have to be priced so high? It is the degenerate result of irrational consumption. Those who are willing to scam themselves by buying overpriced cycling equipment are the ones who are truly hurting "the rest of us."
@@Foster_Byou’re allowed to buy less expensive groupset tiers. You’re even allowed to improve your position in life and do better for yourself.
premium segment is opposite of struggling. look at colnago for example.
You want a ferrari for honda price? There's a lot of amazing options at the lower end. You don't NEED a red group.
I'm on the edge of my seat for upcoming TCR chat. Geei I hope it's snappy.
Gutted for you Chris, Would have been great for the event to get some exposure it deserves. Is there really any advantage having electronic shifting over mechanical on high vibration gravel surface ??
Love the podcast! Listening during Zwift is top notch
Also. I’m riding a 2022 Scott Addict RC with Ultegra and a Tarmac SL7 with rival (but with Red cranks to save weight ). This is really not even a conversation , both are so great. Personally I’m with Shimano though.
Would be interesting to then get you on a Propel to see where they both fit.
Very unspecific on the sram history guys:
1) 28 to 36t compatibility is kinda a deal because old sram red axs first came with a max 33t rd and then later launched a 36t rd.
2) Rival was actually the first to get the new hoods, then force D2. But this is a much bigger reworking with pad clearance and buttons. Definitely worth it to gear heads over force D2 if cash is no object.
3) All axs rear derailleurs in force or red level always came with orbit fluid damping
4) Backward compatibility on 12spd axs definitely is a step up over shimano for the rim brake guys that can stay with the "old" rim brake shifters and as well everyone can just switch to the new front derailleur with time.
Only swithing the hoods probably won't work well with the old calipers. Or the hoods are anyways just available as a kit with the calipers
I've been using shimano mountain bike rear derailleurs for years. Allows me to use up to an 11-46 rear cassette if I want.
That’s a bummer for the gravel ride. I was excited to hear about that race. It kinda sounds like it went into crash mode.
Sorry. I should put the disclaimer in running Princeton Carbonworks Peak 4550 on the Scott. Game changers.
9:31 looks a bit like my Altus derailleur with the larger jockey wheel 😅
Ah, nostalgia for mechanical group sets comes to mind ...
It would be interesting to know how the TCR would feel in comparison against both the giant tyres and the S5 if you use the same tyres that you run on the S5.
I think you are right, as much as I want to test the "package" with the Cadex tyres, I really want to get the feel of the bike with the same rubber to the S5.
@@ChrisMillerCyclingin regards to the continued crappy SRAM front shifting have you thought of running a Shimano DA crank and rings to see if it is better
52/39, 54/41, 56/43 are available aftermarket with powermeter integrated
weird it's not included in the press release
You can get the 'new' FD shifting with Rival or Force D2 FD's .
If anyone wants to know , the Specialized SL7 definitely has better bump compliance than the Scott Addict. I feel like the Scott climbs better and it’s my first choice , but the SL7 is more comfortable over bumpy roads and it’s also much more responsive.
Jesse, you've suggested that Sram has already got everything out of owning 'Today's Plan' when mentioning its imminent closure. With Sram now including a Hammerhead unit within their new Red groupset, could they be going to do something to combine both?
TCR price in the US went up by $200 thanks to our Chinese tariffs 😭
But it’s from Taiwan, not China. (Although the CCP would say they’re the same thing)
Giant also have 2nd factory in Shanghai
I'm totally sold on the new TCR (minus the ISP) but still can't get past the price. I'll go the new Tavelo Arrow or Attack. Also Shimano are going wireless, I'll wait for that to come out then pick up older Dura Ace for a bagain 👍
SRAM Red with a BB86 bottom bracket? Have things improved on that front? It used to be that BB86 BBs didn't work with SRAM's 29/30mm spindle very well
I've been running 30mm with BB86 for 6 years+
Will you rather ride the TCR than the S5 around Berry/KV area?
SRAM RED AXS Aero Powermeter Kit Road 1-speed 52 Teeth currently avaiable to buy and cheapper than the last version.
Why cant Jesse ride that Giant and have him feel that new groupset atleast.
Seriously! We need to hear from the guy who actually works on bikes.
I’m sure he could get a feel but a proper ride might be tricky because he’s substantially bigger than Chris
@@logojones96 but that could account atleast for something than nothing right?
@@marcmancycling yeah totally
He wouldnt fit on a bike Chris rides.
So guys the price quoted $7k Aud does that include, cassette, cranks and chain rings? How does it compare to Shimano Dura-Ace cost wise? Cheers love the show.
Ill have to "accidentally" enter crash mode on my next group ride when I'm about to get dropped.
Hi Chris! Have you switched from Nimbl to Bont?
The TCR looks rad.
My guess on the release cycle for SRAM, being more Apple like. Apple has been starting off with new generations of chips in the IPhone and then moving the tech to lower volume products like MacBook Air. For SRAM Force might be their biggest profit area, so start there, then have those features trickle up to Red and down to Apex.
Would love to see real world comparison between S5 and the TCR. Does aero really work for the type of riding that you do?
I always thought when you two said Bont , that was short for Bontrager. Lol
You missed one of my main arguments for SRAM going with Classified. Sequential shifting. That's the big one for me. Give me 24 gears in a linear progression.
Not sure about 1x on the road with only 12 rear gears. I think if you go to 13 speed it probably works, you go to 14 speed it definitely works.
My 2010 Planet X pro carbon with it's campag mirage 9speed groupset will have to keep rolling for a while yet.
Dot fluid = 🤢🤮
Only used by every car, every motorbike… and not actually an issue
TCR fan here. Love your content guys.
The limit of the classified hub is when you wanna change wheelsets
Exactly, and those wheelsets will not get cheaper with this.
Chris, bummer about WA all is not lost, get your ass to Bright on the 8-9th June for the weekend of CX and gravel. And start training for the Dirty Warrny!
The trickle up it is weird, but I can see it. Start with the lower models (Rival got the small hoods even before force) see how people like, and improve and debug as it moves to the higher end ones.
Much like cars do. New Porsche 911 generations comes out, but only the base version, then a year later a GTS comes out, and then another year the GT3 comes out.
GS it depends on individual, Shimano shift smoother , to those who like to drive an automatic LEXUS or MERC because is comfort. Campy is those who like 911, BMW M performance, Manual sports car. Sram is in between this 2.
Wrist check? Grand Seiko?
👍🏼 GMT ... we did watches instead of rings at our wedding.
@@ChrisMillerCycling you found a keeper!
Bugger, was looking forward to a Seven event report. Don't be too hard on yourself Chris, yes you should have half a clue about bike maintenance and repairs BUT when the Di2 goes off often you are stuffed and that's when you realise how sometimes the tech completely screws us over. When it works it's brilliant, but when there are issues it's a bit a of black box
Are you planning on doing xs skinsuits?
49:24 Why couldn’t AI evaluate your route (obviously loaded on your Karoo), know your preferred cadence and adjust the gearing without your input. Erg mode on the road. Single speed but all the speeds. What gear are you in?…sorry that’s Classified.
Hey guys, the German YT channel Rad Race visited the SRAM development unit in Germany and interviewed one of the key engineers (this part is in English): ruclips.net/video/g_l_olZqr7E/видео.html
One interesting bit was that part of the clunky front derailleur ergonomics was due to design limitiations because of rim brake compatibility: ruclips.net/video/g_l_olZqr7E/видео.html
Also orbit fluid is not new, old Red AXS already had it. It's their version of a clutch.
ganna is Height 6′ 4″, Weight 181 lbs. one of the best tt riders in the world he lost to pogo 5'9, 140lbs, in a time trial, imagine the difference in ftp. and this means the classified hub is good? nah
It was uphill finish….not a flat time trial
@@taxi9554 must've been substantial vert for the end to trump the rest of the course. But big guys can keep good power up climbs for shorter lengths too. Maybe he was fatigued from the previous stages too. Meanwhile pog is solo breakawaying stage wins.
I would say those look like 2 of the top 5 TT setups in the world right now. Considering that it’s actually crazy how much time he put into Ganna.
I live in a hilly country. I have 34/32. I wish I had 34/34. If I am going so fast that I need a higher gear, as a hobby rider I am already going too fast (for reference, my max was 80km/h on an alpine descent, a completely straight part of the descent, almost no cars and not too steep).
Xplr stays. Red is just positioned more as a cross over groupset for riders who want a top end bike that can be used all road. Power meter is available on all chainring configurations.
Classified user on the Gravel Bike... the planetary gear shifts are beautiful. The rear shifts are like SRAM.. so Chris would like the feedback
Yes I use SRAM Force XPLR.. double shift is for AXS dropper. For Jesse.. the classified cassette is extremely light in my opinion.. no savings there. It's all the internals of the hub. Maybe they can trim a little from the hub shell and thuraxle.. but not much.
Interesting, thanks guys
@@ChrisMillerCyclingwhere do you have the 300g extra weight from? My understanding was there is no weight penalty compared to front shifting
@@taxi9554 alot has to do with that you are using. When I compared my setup it was +160-170g all combined.
@@taxi9554 there is some weight penalty but it all depends on what your were using. For me it's a little over 100g. My 2x chainrings were heavy already.
They’ve had the orbital fluid damper in the old SRAM Force
It's also on the previous Red AXS groupset.
Is that tshirt youre wearing available to buy Jessie?
I have a classified system and it comes with all kinds of new challenges. It's never as simple as it sounds. I'd argue a 2x Shimano setup is better.
re the unusual _'trickle up'_ release: the rumour mill last year was full of speculation that Sram and their distributors had a vast glut of unsold Red to try and clear before releasing this, hence all those deep discount sales and this release being delayed.
New POC aero helmet also - Easter egg in this video
If Sram goes the subscription mode. I am out. All this proprietary crap locking you in i absolute rubish. Having features on a groupset that are locked for Wahoo and Garmin users, and only works with Karoo, Similar to how the apple watch works crap with anything but an iPhone. Another no.
#SRAMplatinum 😂
Couldnt do a quick google on how to fix the derailleur?
LOL! we live in Australia ... phone reception 2km from my house is hard enough ... 15km outside of Nannup WA #nochance
@@ChrisMillerCycling lol I'm in Australia as well, just means you gotta get a 5G plan 😋
How hard would it be for JC to do a little research on existing components before starting reviewing new groupset based on photos and manufactures nomenclature?? Sram had the fluid clutch for years, any of their axs derailleurs work 2x or 1x but Red was always limited on how big of a cassette could clear . Armchair experts at work
167.5 mm crank arm is new no?
Rear derailleur: main goal for off road is cobble's not gravel