I think there's a lot of people like me who just find a neat legend and build around that rather than think of the theme first. This has led me to making some of my favorite commander decks, even some of the lesser used ones like Queen Kayla Dragon's Approach and Maarika, Brutal Gladiator Fight Tron and Baldin, Century Headmaster go wide
Arguably, being straightforward with what your deck does is a good way to keep good will at the table. I play with the same group, and get targeted no matter what I play, due to them knowing I may have some broken synergy.
Maybe I'm just competitive by nature (not just cedh, just never play to lose). If you build one of the top 20 because you just enjoy the commander, just build it strong af and play smartly around creature hate. No need to sneak power level behind a secret commander. Be strong, enjoy it. Just have some 6/10 so you don't bad vibes the table if they're super low power.
This is literally what happened to me when I brought The Haunt of Hightower to my LGS game night. Locally though, now it has become one of those kill on sight Commanders, which in turn makes it harder to play now.
Me playing Etb Derevi going into the multiplayer game doing nothing mosr of the time but i got 4 different ways to get infinite mana to just combo off and either win or tap everyone down for rest of the game till i manage to win
I've built incredibly powerful deck on Nemata, Primeval warden, which only needs one free sac outlet, one creature and grave pact to lock your opponents from the board. It also runs a lot of edicts and plaguecrafter effects. It's my suprise commander for new pods
My most inconspicuous commanders are often the most successful in the field. I have a Blind Seer color changing deck. Half of it is janky color changing cards, but if left undisturbed it can quickly control the board and secure victory.
I really want to build a Jund Food deck, but Korvold is unfortunately the only official commander that really does anything with that in those colors. He has a well-earned reputation, but it still feels bad when you don't have any other options.
Technically jund has ZERO options that care about sacrificing 'food' tokens specifically. Korvold works with ANY permanent. That said there ARE other options that can make use of food in jund colors. Vaevictus Asmadi the Dire can use food tokens for his ability (food tokens ARE permanents). Shattergang Brothers can use food tokens as fodder for their edict ability. Dargo and Ikra can use them to pay for Dargo if nothing else (you can sac artifacts to reduce Dargo's cost). Kodama and Vial Smasher can make use of food tokens. When you have a food token ETB, Kodama's ability will let you put a land or 0 drop permanent from your hand onto the battlefield. Keskit and Tana can use them as fuel for Keskit's ability. Ich-Tekik and Vial Smasher can use them for Ich-Tekik's ability (when you sac a token, it DOES hit the graveyard) pumping Ich-Tekik and any golems you may have. Armix and Tana can make SOME use of them, as Armix cares about how many artifacts you control. Not a lot of options to be sure (and none of them even close to as crazy as Korvold) but there ARE options.
@@zackkelley2940 I am aware. I said it, because Korvold is the only option that fits how I want the deck to run. I'm not a big fan of partner commanders just being used for colors, and the other options don't really do much with the theme, or are so narrow with how they work with Food that they're boring. Korvold is the only option that makes any sense, hence why I'm sad there isn't a Jund commander that cares about Food specifically, otherwise I'd build that instead.
@@drakko95 To be fair, Korvold doesn't really 'do much' with it either... it just does it very well. You can't really go wrong with anything that says 'do generic thing and draw card'.
@@zackkelley2940 Exactly I originally had Windrgrace as the commander but after a single game switched to Korvold since I was sacrificing lands and making lots of tokens from land drops, the synergy was great. My favorite is feeding Korvold Rocks from Toggo or Dragon eggs with Nesting Dragon (Cue The Circle of Life) :P
Great video, as always. I like the point you made about Tawnos, a powerful commander that might fly under people's radars when compared to Jhoira or Urza. I will say tho, as you noted, a savvy player will ask to see Tawnos, read it, and realize his innate power. You can't hide things that are just in plain sight!
You are totally correct! An experienced player will see the low CMC on Tawnos and realize the value that commander can provide! But that experienced player might still target Zur the enchanter over Tawnos because they know the Zur deck can be more dangerous! Even if you crank the power up to cEDH I think this rule can apply just maybe a little less so…
@@thetrinketmage I agree that this rule applies to cEDH. We saw Magda and Tivit win tournaments with low meta share. The thing about cEDH is, when people see results, the commanders instantly are no longer obscure.
I love my Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord fling deck. I play the highest power creatures imaginable, fling them to one shot everyone, and no one sees it coming.
Duuude that’s sick I love that card sm, it’s in my 99 for my kresh the bloodbraided deck, once kresh is pumped I’ll fling him for 60 or some at everyone. I’ve thought ab building a Jarad deck recently tho cause of how much fun that sounds to have him in the command zone. Cheat stompy creatures out and fling them
I once built Aminstou around topdeck manipulation with a small subtheme of blinking. I was not aware of the infinite loops she's part of. I did not last long in many games. I've since retired the deck and will be bringing her back with numerous infinite loops, despite how boring I find those instant sun buttons. If they want aminatou to be a threat, then aminatou will be a threat.
The problem with playing the better cards in your 99 is that you have to draw into them, which won't happen most games, and your win percentage tanks harder than if you had just played THAT deck.
@danielsniff6405 getting focused on doesn't matter if your deck gets to go off. Burying your best cards in the 99 makes it much more likely that your deck won't be able to win at all. If a player needs to trick opponents into ignoring them, then it shows a serious skill issue and a lack of integrity in the pre-game's rule zero conversion. Do better
@@majinvegeta6364 Bruh, no. Avoiding commanders who make the the archenemy DOESN'T make you a bad player/bad person. Stop gatekeeping and let people play how they want.
@Chaunwilkerson how is encouraging players to successfully win a game gatekeeping? Did you just pick a buzzword and use it to make a baseless accusation because you have no argument? This smol bean stuff is just the inverse of pubstomping and certainly no better for the other players at the table.
@@majinvegeta6364 I called It gatekeeping because you're vilifying the playstyle as "bad" or "lacking integrity" while propping up your correct playstyle as "doing better". This isn't smol bean since no one's claiming to be the underdog. And most importantly stop liking your own comments.
I've done this a few times- Korvold into Vazi, Keen Negotiatior turns horrifying evasion card drawing treasure commander into a political semi-hugs deck. I had Atraxa fungus tribal and even though I only would have thallids out she would get removed "just in case". Switching her to Xavier Sal which loses me white, but still lets me keep my deck theme going with less aggro and is more unique than Ghave
I really try to build uncommon decks. It makes it so much more fun to me and I end up building a sort of bond with each deck. Recently I haven't been deck building much at all and on the rare occasion that I do, they end up being more popular/common commanders. This video really kinda resparked my passion for doing fun unexpected commanders and trying to find fun ways to break them, so thank you so much for that.
In my tables, we are 2 experienced players and we're often introducing new people to EDH game nights. Aside from our own decks, we have 5 or 6 pretty nice preconstructed decks that the newbies can select and play, to get a feel for different commander mechanics and how each color play, before they want to start their own deck building. Markov is great because of his Eminence ability, but I've never seen him actually attack, because he never survives a whole round on the table. As an Abzan/Orzhov player, I'm often one of the players that kill it very soon. What I can't kill, I exile.
People will learn what makes a deck dangerous regardless of all this. The element of surprise is only going ever last so long, so you still ultimately should play whatever you like first and foremost. Your knowledge of how you pilot your deck will generally take you further in the long run than a few M night shyamalan twist victories over people who are simply unprepared. You can optimize your choices and know your outs better if play the same deck enough, which will negate the element of surprise. You will learn what match ups are poor and favorable. While it's good have a few curve ball commanders, but there's nothing wrong with packing something that is quite powerful that does exactly what you want reliably. These cards are on the top 100 for a reason. Having something that doesn't perform as well can make your commander a waste of a slot. If your opponents don't care enough to kill it, then why you care enough to play it? This is a card you always have access to in most cases, so it makes sense have this on demand card something worthwhile. I was running a Temur dragon deck with Intet, the Dreamer for a while since it covered all the dragons I was looking to include and tried get a color combo I didn't already use. It basically was just there, as if I was able to repeatedly hit someone with a 6/6 flyer, they were probably dead anyways, making it's entire text box moot. I swapped like 5 cards to make it an Ur-dragon deck. Even if I never cast my commander, it brings more value to my deck sitting in the commander zone than Intet, the Dreamer ever did. I am never switching it back to Intet. If that puts a target on me so what? I can fight through it as my deck is absolutely dangerous. This a far better option than lulling my opponents into a false sense of security because I didn't go for the obvious threat.
Fr. I was play testing zombie tribal with gisa and geralf as my commander 2 days ago with a lower mana curve because my deck was too expensive before and I knew gisa and geralf isn't really that powerful compared to other zombie commanders. Played the match and noticed a significant improvement in doing my game plan (swarm thr field with zombies), but I ended up getting bullied and targeted simply because I was able to play more cards than my opp early on so I feel like I'm getting punished for optimizing my mana curve even with a "less powerful" commander 😂 I have the feeling I may need to hold back during games just so I won't be the first one to die but it's not really a fun way to play either.
@@thetrinketmage Who DOESN'T like making 5/5s that explode when they die? And let's not forget Omnath is a SEVEN drop. Even with green you're probably looking at turn 4 or 5 before it hits the field (unless you get lucky with drawing ramp OR are running loads of fast mana).
@@zackkelley2940 i like this kind of effects but 7 manas is to much for me as a commander. I would prefer using Omnath locus of roil. Blue brings nice cards like Risen reef and Temur ascendency.
I pretty much never build obviously powerful decks. One of my favorites is Alaundo the Seer. I just have everything under the sun to untap him in blue and green and typically win with hullbreaker horror. I could get it done faster or go full degenerate and add all the extra turn cards but it already has so good of a win rate at my casual table that I’m starting to feel the need to leave it in the box.
You get a reputation regardless. Whether the powerful commander is in your command zone or its hidden in the 99 people will remember it and play against your deck accordingly (Even if hiding a secret commander or two in the 99 lowers the power of your deck by a lot). People act and play emotionally more than they do logically. So ultimately just play what you like. Some themes you can get away with playing a jank commander, some themes are kinda too niche or don't have so many cards printed and you're hampering yourself really badly if you don't go with the "Obvious" choice for a Commander. (I have a Magus Lucea Kane Tyranid/Hydra/X Spells deck for example and choosing anyone minus her in Temur colors is honestly just shooting myself in the foot a little too hard for my tastes, personally).
I love my Kykar, wind's fury deck. It took some time to my playgroup realize his truly potential, given the fact that the commander alone doesn't do much besides creating some tokens for blockers or some mana and I built it using some spellslinger or storming sometimes (using a lot of pieces, so it is not an OP combo), but mostly winning from nowhere with spells or tokens. Mainly some pieces goes under radar, and I can gather many different pieces and having a lot of options for wincon. Loved your video btw, this topic is so cool, is interesting knowing about underrated commanders, now I am planning on my next unexpected commanders know, thanks!
This tactic is a double edged sword. Playing a obscure commander might not make you a instant target in one group. But another group kills you off instantly because your commander is obscure (they think your up to nothing good). Just make sure you know what your getting yourself into when playing with any commander (popular or obscure).
hehehe i really gotta talk about three diff commanders i have built and love; first is Rocco, Street Chef, who you used for a bg in the vid! i call it Rocco's Great Capennan Bake Off and while i have fun, i basically take control of the game without people realising, under the guise of the host, and make people take advantage of all the "dishes" i offer them off the top, growing a very large rocco very fast to swing in for big damage Gordon Ramsey style! i also have an Oyobi, Who Split The Heavens spirits deck, it's incredibly powerful to the point i only bring it out when people say i',m bad at magic for whatever reason, i also have a Lord Of Tresserhorn Voltrondeck that crushes people very quickly, do not underestimate a 10/4 for 4!
In my local game store i had to do the exact oppossite. I played a nice 'Gorex, the Tomb Shell' self-mill deck, nothing spectacular. Gorex is a silly card, dowgraded to uncommon with Commander Masters too. Every time i played that deck, everyone tried to counter/destroy/exile my commander and target me from the start. Played a 1vs3 60% of the games. When i asked "why" everyone said: "If you chose an unpopular commander like that one, of cause is because you have a secret strategy in mind, and that card is obviously the key piece for some sort of combo or wincon. Otherwise why dont u just run Braids or Krr'ik in the command zone?" Now i play a Tergrid deck; 1vs3 everytime, but at least for some good reasons.
Love these suggestions, these are really some deep cuts! On the topic of powerful commanders, I'm interested in seeing how my new Belbe deck is going to end up playing out. She obviously has the power to get big stuff out stupidly early, but I feel like many lists for her just crank that to 11, packing the deck with Eldrazi. Obviously scary. I'll see if dialling it back, building in a little more pillowfort and recursion might help it feel a little less threatening. Or maybe that won't even matter, because the potential to play haymakers just feels like it's always there with her. Maybe if you're going to use a commander with an obviously explosive effect, you just have to fully lean into it and accept what's coming your way!
For a commander that’s as explosive as her you can just pack some protection. Imp’s mischief can redirect spells or any green protection card like heroic intervention! Leaning into that can be great! Honestly I’ve never seen anyone play that commander so I’m not sure how consistent or explosive the deck it. Otherwise since you’re in green you can just fall back on good ramp and casting your big stuff later!
i agree that your approach can work. but with most approaches in magic it depends on your play group. i just played yarok, kykar, and reki. won all three because other people were also playing high power. i also like to be straight forward. also your playgroup will quickly know what your decks do so it will all be the same in the end.
You are 100% correct if you play with the same people regularly then eventually they will realize what’s up and if they are all also playing high power stuff your high power stuff does not stick out as much.
My Kuro Pitlord and Surrak, the Hunt Caller win far, far too many games. Even when my playgroup knows how deadly they can be, there’s always something “more dangerous” at the table. I’ve considered swapping both out for “better” choices in their slots, but it always feels like a downgrade. Best thing? Those decks feel personal. They’re signature statements that define me as a player. Edit: Saw you shout out Sarulf, and…yes. Jesus. That thing is a terrifying presence on the board.
Mina and Denn was the first time I learned the lesson, second deck ever was Gruul landfall and initially I used omnath as the commander but I quickly realized how much less targeted I got when I just put omnath in the 99 and use Mina and Denn as utility. Love seeing them called out in the video!
I have a lot of commander decks, because I enjoy the game and I have friends who like to play but don't have their own decks. I have a few popular decks, just because I love the archetypes. I also have some jank mysterious commanders. Starke of Rath is a cool card I've been looking at. Him with homeward path sit together waiting to go into a deck somewhere, but I haven't committed to it yet. I definitely agree though that playing the "top" commanders paints a target on your back and playing ones that nobody knows, that look jank, etc really keeps the game interesting and helps you utilize the element of surprise. This is how I prefer to play. Slivers, Ninjas, Dragons, Jhoira Suspend have been some of my favorites, but I know I'm often painting a target on my back. I like the examples you chose and your perspective here
In my playgroups, I find that decks that run inconspicuous commanders with more powerful cards hidden in the 99 typical do well once and then never again. Many times I will win the first game by laying low and then popping off to steal the game, but by the next game, I usually end up being targeted and entirely shut down because the other players realized that my deck was still powerful despite the commander seeming average. If I'm going to become the archenemy regardless of my commander, I would rather have a strong commander than a fringe commander, as it gives me a strong foundation to build off of even if I'm under constant attack. For me, this is especially true for strong commanders that provide immediate value, such as commanders with Eminence, Haste, and ETB abilities.
If you play with the same group regularly then I can see your point for sure! But if you play with randoms at your shop you can sneak in more than one game for sure!
I’ve had a blast building a 99 first (or at least the core of it), and choosing a commander based on that 99 second. I end up taking commonplace commanders in directions opponents don’t expect, and/or deck functions just fine with the commander removed/not cast due to Drannith. Example: my Izzet 99 had a bunch of sweeping burn spells such as Rolling Earthquake, Molten Disaster, etc. I chose Aegar, and while opponents are expecting giant/wizard tribal I’m drawing a dozen cards and nuking the board in Aegar’s suicide runs.
Honestly I just think that if you get targeted a-lot for having a powerful commander, play around it. Waiting to play your commander so you can use protection spells along side it, or waiting for somebody else to become the threat are good strategies.
After watching this I went and scraped through my game data from this year, and you are right; my highest win percentages go to my 3 decks ranked below 1000 on Edhrec. I actually have a 100% win rate, after only 6 games tho, with Neyam Shai Murad. That card/deck has been fun to build, play and tweak. And noone has complained it's too powerful or oppressive, which is very good for my anxiety 😂👍
@@thetrinketmageyeah mate, started doing it back in March. Only basic stats, whenever I play a game I just mark which commander and whether it was a win or a loss. It's actually surprising seeing the results, especially when you have your own personal expectations of decks you have built. My data almost suggests that the lower the EDHREC popularity of my commanders, the higher its win percentage. I wouldn't have picked up on this if you hadn't brought out this video, so I am keen to see what things you notice when scraping through your data 🍻
I remember I built a Haktos the unscarred deck thinking "oh this is a janky commander that no one's heard of that is voltron but can't be equipped or enchanted" and my playgroup knows I accidentally created a monster of a deck with a essentially uninteractable commander, but people who haven't played it just expect it to be an ok voltron deck.
I haven't been making commander decks for too long, and I usually have tried to limit myself to more popular and higher ranking commanders so I wouldn't get so stuck behind everyone, but this changes my perspective, I definitely won't be afraid to play a lower ranking commander if I actually get to keep it it play
My 'The Rani' deck often goes unnoticed in the first game due to it being a less popular commander (676 decks on EDHrec at time of writing) and goad allowing me to force the people that do notice it to attack somewhere else. In the second game I can start using my blink effects more defensively to avoid removal and also get added ETB value which discourages further interaction. Jank commanders fly under the radar in the first game more often because they get less value. Ultimately this stops mattering when people know what your deck does. Adding more commander protection is a better way to deal with removal happy playgroups in the long run. You might also run into the issue where your now lower power commander finds itself at a table with 2-3 'kill on sight commanders' and you simply get out-valued.
one thing some people have to realize is certain archetypes will be targetted as well, my friend was playing a sliver gravemother deck based around reanimating slivers with stackable abilities, but he would still get targeted, because slivers are slivers, they will always be scary
A while ago i built alaundo the seer. Every time a new player saw it, they'd ignore it. But it turned into the longest, most protracted, most disgusting turns if no one removed it. But only people who had played against the deck would know that. I ended up taking it apart because it was kind of unfun to play against and to play, which is a signal that its probably worth taking apart
I just checked the commanders I'm playing: The Ur-Dragon, Galazeth Prismari, Rith Liberated Primeval, Unesh, Trynn & Silvar, Atarka World Render and Dromoka The Eternal. The rank on edhrec doesn't tell the full story. It is true that Rith is very rarely played (I've never seen anyone else with it), which I think is unjustified, as a good Rith deck not only is quite strong but also incredibly fun. The Ur-Dragon is #2 on EDHRec, but I only know two other Ur-Dragon players in my city (Berlin, Germany), and one of them only plays it because they saw me playing it. I think many people have Ur Dragon decks, but they very rarely play them. I do know another person with a Prismari deck and I know another with an Unesh deck (both had theirs before I had mine). I guess my point is that EDHRec doesn't mean anything. I think the main thing about playing non powerful commanders is just that it's a lot more fun playing things that are different from the other things you frequently see or play.
I argue that you haven't truly experienced life until you've built Atris, Oracle of Half-Truths Blink/Goodstuff. Fact or Fiction is my favorite Instant in the game so seeing a commander that has a mini one built in is absolute bliss! For maximum headache, run a Kozilek, Butcher of Truth that you never play. It's only job is to hit the graveyard so you can continue shenanigans!
I pack plenty of protection equipment and enchantments for Rielle the Everwise as well as several low mana spells/abilities that discard plenty. I have a few ways of boarding an additional body or two. I have a few different ways of eliminating players, commander damage, Conflagrate/burn spells that use the massive hand size, Psychosis Crawler/Glinthorn Buccaneers, or Lab Maniac (I don't think I've won with this yet). Generally, I'll one shot someone with my commander and eliminate the other two players with burn damage. I have like 6-7 counter spells, generally ones that play into my commander. Stubborn Denial is a 1 mana counter noncreature spell if I got a creature with 4+ power, something Rielle can quickly obtain with one of her abilities. Forbid and Foil are solid for two different reasons, Forbid is reusable while Foil is free mana (though it can be inconsistent as you need an island to discard). Overwhelming Denial helps ensure the more expensive wheeling spells resolve (sort of).
I've been playing a Zurzoth Chaosrider deck, I wanted to go into the semi chaos type theme decks. Even though he doesn't create tokens as fast as big old Krenko, he has the utility of removing target creatures or burning players with his tokens being removed and or dying. I have won 6 out of 7 matches so far with an underrated commander and it's been a lot of fun.
I like to build strategies around my commanders, but never to rely on them. My Thalisse, Reverent Medium deck runs exceptionally well when she is on board (even more with Ophiomancer and one of my sac outlets on board), but if she gets killed it runs smoothly. My Narci, Fable Singer deck uses Narci saga enders to gain life and deal damage, but I have other win cons aside from her triggered damage. If she is kept on board, that's great. If she gets removed often, It can stand up on it's own legs. Also, I like running fun and different commanders, keeping the aggro low on those cards.
The thing about deck building is that of you're a good deckbuilder, and overwhelmed your opponents with your deck several times, at this point it almost doesn't matter what you play, you will be a target for the sake of it. You need to always overcome and come back on top.
@@thetrinketmage that's not even that fair. I sometimes hear someone saying that I am a great deckbuilder, or an evil mind of some kind, but I tend to play commander engine commandres, which aren't that good if you will simply kill my commander, but no one actually do this for some rest and then Volo do it's Volo things, or Niv-Mizzet into curiosity happens, and like, I just don't see much counterplay from my opps, that's why I am winning so much. And then they on their tribal decks are just attacking me all the time next game, and I have something like a propaganda and they call me boring.))) I am not a great deckbuilder, I swear, I just use my cards to their full potential.))
I play Powerful commanders because I want to play with some of my Favorite Characters in Magic, Have a fun playstyle or Build a themed deck around them. My Current "Powerful Commanders" Are Atraxa, K'rrik, Kenrith and Obeka. -Atraxa is Praetor Tribal and the Deck is built around surving long enough to start the Invasion with Realmbreaker -K'rrik allows to really stress test the "Life is a resource" phrase and gamble my life down to 0 and see if I can bounce back to 40 (Or in some cases how deep into the negative I can go) -Obeka has no real win con besides doing my best to Politic and See what Shenanigans I can cause with Hive Mind while I wait to play Last Chance -Kenrith is my newest Themed deck and its "Hell's Royal Kitchen" Where Kenrith is just the face of the Deck and the Real Commander(s) is all the Chef legendary creatures all Trying to run a kitchen and pump out tons of food and Treasure token
Urza Lord High Artificer is one of the few commanders you CAN'T make a 'casual' version of. You could have a deck with Urza, 39 Islands, and 60 RANDOMLY selected artifacts and you would STILL have a decent chance of rolling the table.
I keep wanting to build Gretchen Titchwillow as a Simic landfall value engine commander. But i'm definitely that way as a seasoned Magic player, I mean even ones that aren't the "big bads" like Urza, but like Shalai and Hallar is one of those commanders you just want to blow up as fast as possible
I usually just tell the table my game plan. Everyone seems to be okay with what I’m doing whenever I play my decks. I main Krenko tin street kingpin but as a voltron deck. People just like it when you’re honest. And don’t try hard right out of the gate unless they are looking for that kinda game. Just ask your table what kinda game they are looking to play and you’ll be fine
I changed my Meren deck as Old rustein deck and it's been way more succesfully, no single removal has been pointed on Old rustein and 4 toughness keeps my hp pretty healty.
Only four of my currently 15 commanders are in the top 100, and I only use those to match power for power in the right situation. Of those are Niv Mizzet Parun (no infinite), Windgrace, Liesa (Lifestax), and Feather with blink synergies. Everything else is way farther down.
I honestly kinda stumbled into playing yuriko. I got into the game around Kamigawa Neon Dynasty and happened to have a lot of ninjas because I tried (and failed) to make my ninja theme booster into a coherent deck. So when I got back into magic a year ago I already had most of starting pieces for the deck and built it not realizing how infamous she was. I’ve learned to own how busted she is and warn people ahead of time that I don’t pull punches with it.
Hidden commanders are great. I have a Xyris deck with Magnus the Red as the hidden commander. It's loaded with card draw, green tutors, and recursion, so it's probably my most consistent deck.
I noticed in my games commanders like Jodah /unifier got hard targeted, while my other commanders that are cheaper and less threatening don't even get glanced at. Like Aegar, the freezing flsame.
My kresh the bloodbraided deck has this vibe a bit, it doesn’t take much to figure out he can get pretty disgusting but people underestimate how quick it can happen at first. Ppl have let me live at 5 health thinking I was out of the game only for me to buff kresh back up in one turn and play a Chandras ignition for game lol
The first deck I bought was a $50 Krenko deck. I went against a $1k Lord Windgrace and a $600 Korvold deck (cant remember the other). I kept getting targeted, and ever since then, I always scroll down to 250 on EDHrec, and then start looking. No more popular commanders for me
I think you hit on why my rakka mar deck does so well. Its not seen as a threat until its to late. I've assembled a thousand ways to make a lightning bolt multiple times
One of my fav underrated decks are mono white storm helmed by mavinda, the deck wins by storming off with a huge amount of the "shittest white cantrip you've ever seen in the history of magic", people never remove my commander, because just from the look it really doesn't to that much untill I've dropped a aetherflux and draw 30 card a turn to win
I have some top 100 commanders, some underrated commanders and some that were underrated then everyone started playing them. My favorite underrated commander is Ganax//Iron Throne
I like casual decks. One deck I am trying to build is a wurm tribal deck with some mana dorks. The commander for it is Baru, Wurmspeaker. I call the deck Can of Worms.
I made a somehow strong Jhoira, Ageless Innovator deck, where I try to proliferate and protect my commander for a bit so I can get a turn 5-6 massive game ending artifact on the field.
Wish this was true for the group i play magic with…but it’s the exact opposite, if they don’t know what your deck does you are immediately scene as a threat and killed.
I’ve been running into the problem of being instantly targeted because I’m playing yawgmoth. Does anyone have a good substitute to run as the commander and put yawgmoth in my 99?
If you're playing vampires tribal, unfortunately Edgar is by far the best option. I am thankful I grabbed all the commanders that year, 2017. Eminence is such a powerful ability, and you get benefit even if your commander never hits the field. Nothing else in those colors comes close to what he does. I agree he badly needs reprinted to drive the cost down, and other comparable options need be made, possibly with other colors.
I have two decks: Korvold Fey Cursed King, and Renari Merchant of Marvels with the Acolyte of Bahamut background. Korvold is objectively a stronger deck but I tend to have way more fun with Renari because A) it's a more interesting game play loop and B) Renari tends to stay on the battlefield way longer because it's a value piece and not my Wincon.
to be honest im just going to use Anikthea to make a Out of Time zombie creature token, phasing out everything indefinetely and sacrificing her in response. Play whatever you want.
I tend to not play over-powered commanders. OG Brimaz, Mogis is my current favorite deck, & I enjoy pulling out my Liesa, Shroud of Dusk deck. I put a Ghyrson Starn deck that can be surprisingly effective. The only OP commander I've built around is Chulane & that one started out as a budget deck.
A friend of mine has a krenko deck that can overrun you with gobos in just a few turns so when we play my maingoal is just to keep his commander off the board.
I fundamentally disagree with this logic. If you're looking to play powerful commanders, you're looking to play powerful magic. Taking a deceptive strategy Can bite you after the first game. Between game politics and whatnot. The brewer's advantage is just not something to build for. I play a lot of unique pairings. I have a Ravos Armix deck that has like 5 total decks on edhrec. I Keep my lists unlisted but it's a smokestax deck where ravos picks up the card to discard to armix's attack trigger I play a turbo fog deck that uses Ikra shidiqi and ludevic necro alchemist. Gain life and draw a card and reward my opponents. I don't see the point of "I want a strategy that has a powerful plan but I don't want a powerful commander. I do understand paying jank commanders for a purpose, so long as that purpose is not "this other deck but worse"
Honestly I have a Rats deck with Totentanz, Swarm Piper as the commander, I have no real better way to explain its strategy except for "damage cheating", I've played maybe 10 or so games with it and it has a 90% WR even into stronger pods, genuinely no idea how.
I think its a great thing to tell people to play more diverse and underplayed commanders, but what this video boiled down to was "If you want to play a urza thopter deck, actually just play this completely different mono blue voltron deck to catch people off guard" which is weird. cause if I really like urza and really like thopters, why cant I just do that? Another thing you keep mentioning is the surprise factor, which is a very weak argument in my opinion since it only really works once, and the only thing it does is help you winning, which of course is nice, but in casual commander I care less about winning and more about having fun, and tricking my opponents just to win doesnt feel very fun to me. Over all this is a great video showcasing some underplayed commanders, but I dont like telling people to stop playing commanders they might like just for some weird mind game. One last thing, you also mentioned playing specific commanders usually gets you targeted and/or playing seemingly weak commanders doesnt and means they stay around longer. That just sounds like you have opponents with poor threat assessment, or are just very vindictive and just target you for a very poor reason. Any commander is good enough to be spot removed, since most if not all legendaries can be dangrous if properly built around. Great video, but I feel like itt wouldve been better as just "here are some cool underplayed commanders you should try"
The absolute strongest commander I have access to is Go-Shintai. Someone wanted a few of my collector fetch lands and traded me the entire deck for three of them. I generally do not play Go-Shintai because I find that commander to be so absolutely busted it isn't fun for the table...enchantment spam is a ludicrously easy wincon because WotC seems vehement in giving only two colors consistent enchantment removal... In a few turns if someone doesn't have a Farewell or Merciless Eviction I'm basically untouchable with it and even combat damage just won't be enough. Enchantment focus is far, far too strong. I don't understand why only White and Green can regularly deal with enchantments...
Don't tell me what to do. I'll play Omnath and Edgar if I want to and I'll gladly take the hate but I'm up front about it and only play them in 7.5-8 power lobbys
I play mostly just with the same 2 people plus one random other person that one of those 2 people play with. Neither of them, and most of the other randoms that join, are very familiar with all of the supposedly popular commanders. Moreover once you've played a deck once or twice with the same group of people you aren't surprising them much longer with the general flavor of your deck. This video focuses on, or spends more time talking about one particular advantage than any other advantage, hiding what your deck is capable of so that people don't just focus you or your general; this doesn't really apply when you've played the same deck a few times with other people and they know what your deck and your commander do and how consistent your deck is. Now there were a lot of other good points in the video, like how your opponents are less likely to hold an answer to a combo piece they've never seen before (something in your hand) than something they know you have access to. These points still have a lot of value and I won't deny that. It's just that the amount of focus placed on that one particular advantage that doesn't seem to apply much to me and probably a good handful of other people unfortunately reduces the quality of the video in my eyes.
I think there's also just people who will take a card they like from 60 card formats and build around that. Instead of Rona, Herald of Invasion, I use Vohar, Vodalian Desecrator because he's been great in the UB control deck I play in standard For a RB aggro deck, I use Valki, Cosmic Imposter // Totally Not Tibalt instead of Rakdos Valki-Tibalt is awesome
my main deck i run is a Karlov of the Ghost Council deck, where i basically focus on pings to grow him huge and have removal on a stick. all for two orzhov mana. i keep destroying my friends mono green elf deck. and i stay so low profile to the other players that im never actually the target until its too late
I have both jhoira and galazeth decks and they play completly different, but about jhoira it might be true that if they let her on the field 1 turn she can aways come back. markov its vampires on easy mode, you cant even deal with the eminence
I mostly play powerful commanders and if I get targeted Im always able to come back because i build my decks overall strong. If you wanna play a cool archetype you should just use a good commander for it. More often then not its gonna give you better games then just chosing some random commanders. Also a lot of other players might also play powerful stuff so this whole mentality doesnt exist. Also the argument that you can put those strong commanders in you commander deck with a "bad" commander doesnt make sense. Just chose a good commander and on top of that put good legends in it.
I built a myrel deck, no, while the commander seems pretty good at face value. She combos crazy with a bunch of other white cards. my best deck I’ve built so far.
Can you share your deck list or favorite cards? My Zur deck is inducing some salt, so I picked up Archmage. I know Unifier is the better Jodah, but he doesn’t give me the cool wizard vibes as Archmage.
I built my FBLTHP the Lost deck 4 years ago and it barely exceeds 500 EDHREC decks posted... FBLTHP and Borborgymos just over a 1000, poor little mono blue homunculus is, well, lost but not to me. FBLTHP is a hilarious commander that most other players are not familiar with and I have yet to have a game where the opponent afterwards is like, ''I HATE YOUR DECK'' so for a mono Blue ''Good stuffs'' deck that is amazing! By Good Stuffs I mean classics: Rhystic Study, Mana Drain, Venser, Consecrated Sphinx, Cyclonic Rift, Thassa Oracle, etc... and strangely no one is annoyed by this deck which simply follows the whims of the sea tide goes out, tide comes in hence the name of the deck is FBLOOPS: you play blue board wipes returning everything to your hand to play those silly ETB's all over again and get the spells back it wins by: Infintie mana, Drawing out the deck+ Thassa oracle or Infinite mana return all permanents to hand or boring old damage :P
Personally, I look for commanders that enable weird/unique playstyles but that aren't too mean. Example: Tergrids ability sounded incredibly fun to me... until I had disgusting game with her where I felt bad for opponents lmfao
unfortunately, I have only made deck with uncommon commandes that scare other players even though the decks are pretty bad. They see a kaumonix hit the board and almost always kill it on sight.
I play kresh the blood braided as a front for a lot of Jund commanders. Deck is go wide sack to go big and punishes players who try to meet it on an aggro match. I rarely bring out kresh though so I kind of feel bad.
I think there's a lot of people like me who just find a neat legend and build around that rather than think of the theme first. This has led me to making some of my favorite commander decks, even some of the lesser used ones like Queen Kayla Dragon's Approach and Maarika, Brutal Gladiator Fight Tron and Baldin, Century Headmaster go wide
Arguably, being straightforward with what your deck does is a good way to keep good will at the table.
I play with the same group, and get targeted no matter what I play, due to them knowing I may have some broken synergy.
Broooo same
Maybe I'm just competitive by nature (not just cedh, just never play to lose). If you build one of the top 20 because you just enjoy the commander, just build it strong af and play smartly around creature hate. No need to sneak power level behind a secret commander. Be strong, enjoy it. Just have some 6/10 so you don't bad vibes the table if they're super low power.
You are totally correct! Honestly maybe I should’ve mentioned sandbagging a bit in this video because it’s more like that than intentionally throwing.
When no one knows what the deck does, they wont know how to play against it. The most hidden decks win.
That is how I win a lot. I build janky decks with good synergy.
This is literally what happened to me when I brought The Haunt of Hightower to my LGS game night. Locally though, now it has become one of those kill on sight Commanders, which in turn makes it harder to play now.
Me playing Etb Derevi going into the multiplayer game doing nothing mosr of the time but i got 4 different ways to get infinite mana to just combo off and either win or tap everyone down for rest of the game till i manage to win
No one knows what's happening with my Evra, Halcyon Witness deck. Then, they're dead in a single turn
I've built incredibly powerful deck on Nemata, Primeval warden, which only needs one free sac outlet, one creature and grave pact to lock your opponents from the board. It also runs a lot of edicts and plaguecrafter effects. It's my suprise commander for new pods
My most inconspicuous commanders are often the most successful in the field.
I have a Blind Seer color changing deck. Half of it is janky color changing cards, but if left undisturbed it can quickly control the board and secure victory.
I love blind seer that commander is a ton of fun!
The only correct Urza deck.
I really want to build a Jund Food deck, but Korvold is unfortunately the only official commander that really does anything with that in those colors. He has a well-earned reputation, but it still feels bad when you don't have any other options.
Honestly we just need more 3 color sets! There are not enough of some of these jund or mardu or temur commanders
Technically jund has ZERO options that care about sacrificing 'food' tokens specifically. Korvold works with ANY permanent.
That said there ARE other options that can make use of food in jund colors.
Vaevictus Asmadi the Dire can use food tokens for his ability (food tokens ARE permanents).
Shattergang Brothers can use food tokens as fodder for their edict ability.
Dargo and Ikra can use them to pay for Dargo if nothing else (you can sac artifacts to reduce Dargo's cost).
Kodama and Vial Smasher can make use of food tokens. When you have a food token ETB, Kodama's ability will let you put a land or 0 drop permanent from your hand onto the battlefield.
Keskit and Tana can use them as fuel for Keskit's ability.
Ich-Tekik and Vial Smasher can use them for Ich-Tekik's ability (when you sac a token, it DOES hit the graveyard) pumping Ich-Tekik and any golems you may have.
Armix and Tana can make SOME use of them, as Armix cares about how many artifacts you control.
Not a lot of options to be sure (and none of them even close to as crazy as Korvold) but there ARE options.
@@zackkelley2940 I am aware. I said it, because Korvold is the only option that fits how I want the deck to run. I'm not a big fan of partner commanders just being used for colors, and the other options don't really do much with the theme, or are so narrow with how they work with Food that they're boring. Korvold is the only option that makes any sense, hence why I'm sad there isn't a Jund commander that cares about Food specifically, otherwise I'd build that instead.
@@drakko95 To be fair, Korvold doesn't really 'do much' with it either... it just does it very well.
You can't really go wrong with anything that says 'do generic thing and draw card'.
@@zackkelley2940 Exactly I originally had Windrgrace as the commander but after a single game switched to Korvold since I was sacrificing lands and making lots of tokens from land drops, the synergy was great. My favorite is feeding Korvold Rocks from Toggo or Dragon eggs with Nesting Dragon (Cue The Circle of Life) :P
Great video, as always. I like the point you made about Tawnos, a powerful commander that might fly under people's radars when compared to Jhoira or Urza.
I will say tho, as you noted, a savvy player will ask to see Tawnos, read it, and realize his innate power. You can't hide things that are just in plain sight!
You are totally correct! An experienced player will see the low CMC on Tawnos and realize the value that commander can provide! But that experienced player might still target Zur the enchanter over Tawnos because they know the Zur deck can be more dangerous! Even if you crank the power up to cEDH I think this rule can apply just maybe a little less so…
@@thetrinketmage I agree that this rule applies to cEDH. We saw Magda and Tivit win tournaments with low meta share. The thing about cEDH is, when people see results, the commanders instantly are no longer obscure.
This is the most refreshing video on EDH/Commander content since a very long time. Interesting topic thank you so much
i love playing commanders that aren't typical that strategy. i have a quintorius reanimator deck and emara vehicles, people never expect either of em.
I love my Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord fling deck. I play the highest power creatures imaginable, fling them to one shot everyone, and no one sees it coming.
Got a lord of extinction in there?
@@thetrinketmage you know it
Duuude that’s sick I love that card sm, it’s in my 99 for my kresh the bloodbraided deck, once kresh is pumped I’ll fling him for 60 or some at everyone. I’ve thought ab building a Jarad deck recently tho cause of how much fun that sounds to have him in the command zone. Cheat stompy creatures out and fling them
I once built Aminstou around topdeck manipulation with a small subtheme of blinking.
I was not aware of the infinite loops she's part of. I did not last long in many games. I've since retired the deck and will be bringing her back with numerous infinite loops, despite how boring I find those instant sun buttons. If they want aminatou to be a threat, then aminatou will be a threat.
The problem with playing the better cards in your 99 is that you have to draw into them, which won't happen most games, and your win percentage tanks harder than if you had just played THAT deck.
But, if you play them as your commander, you're probably going to get focused, which lowers your win percentage. The video makes sense.
@danielsniff6405 getting focused on doesn't matter if your deck gets to go off. Burying your best cards in the 99 makes it much more likely that your deck won't be able to win at all. If a player needs to trick opponents into ignoring them, then it shows a serious skill issue and a lack of integrity in the pre-game's rule zero conversion. Do better
@@majinvegeta6364 Bruh, no. Avoiding commanders who make the the archenemy DOESN'T make you a bad player/bad person. Stop gatekeeping and let people play how they want.
@Chaunwilkerson how is encouraging players to successfully win a game gatekeeping? Did you just pick a buzzword and use it to make a baseless accusation because you have no argument? This smol bean stuff is just the inverse of pubstomping and certainly no better for the other players at the table.
@@majinvegeta6364 I called It gatekeeping because you're vilifying the playstyle as "bad" or "lacking integrity" while propping up your correct playstyle as "doing better". This isn't smol bean since no one's claiming to be the underdog.
And most importantly stop liking your own comments.
I've done this a few times- Korvold into Vazi, Keen Negotiatior turns horrifying evasion card drawing treasure commander into a political semi-hugs deck.
I had Atraxa fungus tribal and even though I only would have thallids out she would get removed "just in case". Switching her to Xavier Sal which loses me white, but still lets me keep my deck theme going with less aggro and is more unique than Ghave
I really try to build uncommon decks. It makes it so much more fun to me and I end up building a sort of bond with each deck. Recently I haven't been deck building much at all and on the rare occasion that I do, they end up being more popular/common commanders. This video really kinda resparked my passion for doing fun unexpected commanders and trying to find fun ways to break them, so thank you so much for that.
I’m glad that I’ve inspired you!
In my tables, we are 2 experienced players and we're often introducing new people to EDH game nights. Aside from our own decks, we have 5 or 6 pretty nice preconstructed decks that the newbies can select and play, to get a feel for different commander mechanics and how each color play, before they want to start their own deck building. Markov is great because of his Eminence ability, but I've never seen him actually attack, because he never survives a whole round on the table. As an Abzan/Orzhov player, I'm often one of the players that kill it very soon. What I can't kill, I exile.
People will learn what makes a deck dangerous regardless of all this. The element of surprise is only going ever last so long, so you still ultimately should play whatever you like first and foremost. Your knowledge of how you pilot your deck will generally take you further in the long run than a few M night shyamalan twist victories over people who are simply unprepared. You can optimize your choices and know your outs better if play the same deck enough, which will negate the element of surprise. You will learn what match ups are poor and favorable. While it's good have a few curve ball commanders, but there's nothing wrong with packing something that is quite powerful that does exactly what you want reliably. These cards are on the top 100 for a reason.
Having something that doesn't perform as well can make your commander a waste of a slot. If your opponents don't care enough to kill it, then why you care enough to play it? This is a card you always have access to in most cases, so it makes sense have this on demand card something worthwhile. I was running a Temur dragon deck with Intet, the Dreamer for a while since it covered all the dragons I was looking to include and tried get a color combo I didn't already use. It basically was just there, as if I was able to repeatedly hit someone with a 6/6 flyer, they were probably dead anyways, making it's entire text box moot. I swapped like 5 cards to make it an Ur-dragon deck. Even if I never cast my commander, it brings more value to my deck sitting in the commander zone than Intet, the Dreamer ever did. I am never switching it back to Intet. If that puts a target on me so what? I can fight through it as my deck is absolutely dangerous. This a far better option than lulling my opponents into a false sense of security because I didn't go for the obvious threat.
Fr. I was play testing zombie tribal with gisa and geralf as my commander 2 days ago with a lower mana curve because my deck was too expensive before and I knew gisa and geralf isn't really that powerful compared to other zombie commanders.
Played the match and noticed a significant improvement in doing my game plan (swarm thr field with zombies), but I ended up getting bullied and targeted simply because I was able to play more cards than my opp early on so I feel like I'm getting punished for optimizing my mana curve even with a "less powerful" commander 😂
I have the feeling I may need to hold back during games just so I won't be the first one to die but it's not really a fun way to play either.
I'm still gonna play omnath, i like making 5/5s
Hey not hate! Omnath is still cool!
@@thetrinketmage Who DOESN'T like making 5/5s that explode when they die?
And let's not forget Omnath is a SEVEN drop. Even with green you're probably looking at turn 4 or 5 before it hits the field (unless you get lucky with drawing ramp OR are running loads of fast mana).
@@zackkelley2940 i like this kind of effects but 7 manas is to much for me as a commander. I would prefer using Omnath locus of roil. Blue brings nice cards like Risen reef and Temur ascendency.
I pretty much never build obviously powerful decks. One of my favorites is Alaundo the Seer. I just have everything under the sun to untap him in blue and green and typically win with hullbreaker horror. I could get it done faster or go full degenerate and add all the extra turn cards but it already has so good of a win rate at my casual table that I’m starting to feel the need to leave it in the box.
You get a reputation regardless. Whether the powerful commander is in your command zone or its hidden in the 99 people will remember it and play against your deck accordingly (Even if hiding a secret commander or two in the 99 lowers the power of your deck by a lot). People act and play emotionally more than they do logically.
So ultimately just play what you like. Some themes you can get away with playing a jank commander, some themes are kinda too niche or don't have so many cards printed and you're hampering yourself really badly if you don't go with the "Obvious" choice for a Commander. (I have a Magus Lucea Kane Tyranid/Hydra/X Spells deck for example and choosing anyone minus her in Temur colors is honestly just shooting myself in the foot a little too hard for my tastes, personally).
I love my Kykar, wind's fury deck. It took some time to my playgroup realize his truly potential, given the fact that the commander alone doesn't do much besides creating some tokens for blockers or some mana and I built it using some spellslinger or storming sometimes (using a lot of pieces, so it is not an OP combo), but mostly winning from nowhere with spells or tokens. Mainly some pieces goes under radar, and I can gather many different pieces and having a lot of options for wincon.
Loved your video btw, this topic is so cool, is interesting knowing about underrated commanders, now I am planning on my next unexpected commanders know, thanks!
This tactic is a double edged sword. Playing a obscure commander might not make you a instant target in one group. But another group kills you off instantly because your commander is obscure (they think your up to nothing good). Just make sure you know what your getting yourself into when playing with any commander (popular or obscure).
hehehe i really gotta talk about three diff commanders i have built and love; first is Rocco, Street Chef, who you used for a bg in the vid! i call it Rocco's Great Capennan Bake Off and while i have fun, i basically take control of the game without people realising, under the guise of the host, and make people take advantage of all the "dishes" i offer them off the top, growing a very large rocco very fast to swing in for big damage Gordon Ramsey style! i also have an Oyobi, Who Split The Heavens spirits deck, it's incredibly powerful to the point i only bring it out when people say i',m bad at magic for whatever reason, i also have a Lord Of Tresserhorn Voltrondeck that crushes people very quickly, do not underestimate a 10/4 for 4!
In my local game store i had to do the exact oppossite. I played a nice 'Gorex, the Tomb Shell' self-mill deck, nothing spectacular. Gorex is a silly card, dowgraded to uncommon with Commander Masters too. Every time i played that deck, everyone tried to counter/destroy/exile my commander and target me from the start. Played a 1vs3 60% of the games. When i asked "why" everyone said: "If you chose an unpopular commander like that one, of cause is because you have a secret strategy in mind, and that card is obviously the key piece for some sort of combo or wincon. Otherwise why dont u just run Braids or Krr'ik in the command zone?"
Now i play a Tergrid deck; 1vs3 everytime, but at least for some good reasons.
Love these suggestions, these are really some deep cuts!
On the topic of powerful commanders, I'm interested in seeing how my new Belbe deck is going to end up playing out. She obviously has the power to get big stuff out stupidly early, but I feel like many lists for her just crank that to 11, packing the deck with Eldrazi. Obviously scary. I'll see if dialling it back, building in a little more pillowfort and recursion might help it feel a little less threatening. Or maybe that won't even matter, because the potential to play haymakers just feels like it's always there with her. Maybe if you're going to use a commander with an obviously explosive effect, you just have to fully lean into it and accept what's coming your way!
For a commander that’s as explosive as her you can just pack some protection. Imp’s mischief can redirect spells or any green protection card like heroic intervention! Leaning into that can be great! Honestly I’ve never seen anyone play that commander so I’m not sure how consistent or explosive the deck it. Otherwise since you’re in green you can just fall back on good ramp and casting your big stuff later!
i agree that your approach can work. but with most approaches in magic it depends on your play group. i just played yarok, kykar, and reki. won all three because other people were also playing high power. i also like to be straight forward. also your playgroup will quickly know what your decks do so it will all be the same in the end.
You are 100% correct if you play with the same people regularly then eventually they will realize what’s up and if they are all also playing high power stuff your high power stuff does not stick out as much.
My Kuro Pitlord and Surrak, the Hunt Caller win far, far too many games. Even when my playgroup knows how deadly they can be, there’s always something “more dangerous” at the table. I’ve considered swapping both out for “better” choices in their slots, but it always feels like a downgrade.
Best thing? Those decks feel personal. They’re signature statements that define me as a player.
Edit: Saw you shout out Sarulf, and…yes. Jesus. That thing is a terrifying presence on the board.
Mina and Denn was the first time I learned the lesson, second deck ever was Gruul landfall and initially I used omnath as the commander but I quickly realized how much less targeted I got when I just put omnath in the 99 and use Mina and Denn as utility. Love seeing them called out in the video!
I have a lot of commander decks, because I enjoy the game and I have friends who like to play but don't have their own decks. I have a few popular decks, just because I love the archetypes. I also have some jank mysterious commanders. Starke of Rath is a cool card I've been looking at. Him with homeward path sit together waiting to go into a deck somewhere, but I haven't committed to it yet. I definitely agree though that playing the "top" commanders paints a target on your back and playing ones that nobody knows, that look jank, etc really keeps the game interesting and helps you utilize the element of surprise. This is how I prefer to play. Slivers, Ninjas, Dragons, Jhoira Suspend have been some of my favorites, but I know I'm often painting a target on my back. I like the examples you chose and your perspective here
In my playgroups, I find that decks that run inconspicuous commanders with more powerful cards hidden in the 99 typical do well once and then never again. Many times I will win the first game by laying low and then popping off to steal the game, but by the next game, I usually end up being targeted and entirely shut down because the other players realized that my deck was still powerful despite the commander seeming average. If I'm going to become the archenemy regardless of my commander, I would rather have a strong commander than a fringe commander, as it gives me a strong foundation to build off of even if I'm under constant attack. For me, this is especially true for strong commanders that provide immediate value, such as commanders with Eminence, Haste, and ETB abilities.
If you play with the same group regularly then I can see your point for sure! But if you play with randoms at your shop you can sneak in more than one game for sure!
@@thetrinketmage seems a bit disingenuous to me.
I’ve had a blast building a 99 first (or at least the core of it), and choosing a commander based on that 99 second. I end up taking commonplace commanders in directions opponents don’t expect, and/or deck functions just fine with the commander removed/not cast due to Drannith.
Example: my Izzet 99 had a bunch of sweeping burn spells such as Rolling Earthquake, Molten Disaster, etc. I chose Aegar, and while opponents are expecting giant/wizard tribal I’m drawing a dozen cards and nuking the board in Aegar’s suicide runs.
I also build my decks bottom up!
I have a Mina/Denn deck and a Galazeth, precisely for the reasons you mention.
Honestly I just think that if you get targeted a-lot for having a powerful commander, play around it. Waiting to play your commander so you can use protection spells along side it, or waiting for somebody else to become the threat are good strategies.
Sandbagging and holding stuff up is the smart play if you find yourself getting targeted. Actually I’m planning a video about sandbagging!
After watching this I went and scraped through my game data from this year, and you are right; my highest win percentages go to my 3 decks ranked below 1000 on Edhrec. I actually have a 100% win rate, after only 6 games tho, with Neyam Shai Murad. That card/deck has been fun to build, play and tweak. And noone has complained it's too powerful or oppressive, which is very good for my anxiety 😂👍
Do you keep track of your decks win rates? I’ve been doing that recently too! I’m planning on making a video about the stats I collect after 100 games
@@thetrinketmageyeah mate, started doing it back in March. Only basic stats, whenever I play a game I just mark which commander and whether it was a win or a loss.
It's actually surprising seeing the results, especially when you have your own personal expectations of decks you have built. My data almost suggests that the lower the EDHREC popularity of my commanders, the higher its win percentage.
I wouldn't have picked up on this if you hadn't brought out this video, so I am keen to see what things you notice when scraping through your data 🍻
I remember I built a Haktos the unscarred deck thinking "oh this is a janky commander that no one's heard of that is voltron but can't be equipped or enchanted" and my playgroup knows I accidentally created a monster of a deck with a essentially uninteractable commander, but people who haven't played it just expect it to be an ok voltron deck.
I haven't been making commander decks for too long, and I usually have tried to limit myself to more popular and higher ranking commanders so I wouldn't get so stuck behind everyone, but this changes my perspective, I definitely won't be afraid to play a lower ranking commander if I actually get to keep it it play
My 'The Rani' deck often goes unnoticed in the first game due to it being a less popular commander (676 decks on EDHrec at time of writing) and goad allowing me to force the people that do notice it to attack somewhere else.
In the second game I can start using my blink effects more defensively to avoid removal and also get added ETB value which discourages further interaction.
Jank commanders fly under the radar in the first game more often because they get less value. Ultimately this stops mattering when people know what your deck does. Adding more commander protection is a better way to deal with removal happy playgroups in the long run. You might also run into the issue where your now lower power commander finds itself at a table with 2-3 'kill on sight commanders' and you simply get out-valued.
one thing some people have to realize is certain archetypes will be targetted as well, my friend was playing a sliver gravemother deck based around reanimating slivers with stackable abilities, but he would still get targeted, because slivers are slivers, they will always be scary
I do want to point out tawnos actually got a new partner with saheeli
A while ago i built alaundo the seer. Every time a new player saw it, they'd ignore it. But it turned into the longest, most protracted, most disgusting turns if no one removed it. But only people who had played against the deck would know that.
I ended up taking it apart because it was kind of unfun to play against and to play, which is a signal that its probably worth taking apart
I just checked the commanders I'm playing: The Ur-Dragon, Galazeth Prismari, Rith Liberated Primeval, Unesh, Trynn & Silvar, Atarka World Render and Dromoka The Eternal.
The rank on edhrec doesn't tell the full story.
It is true that Rith is very rarely played (I've never seen anyone else with it), which I think is unjustified, as a good Rith deck not only is quite strong but also incredibly fun.
The Ur-Dragon is #2 on EDHRec, but I only know two other Ur-Dragon players in my city (Berlin, Germany), and one of them only plays it because they saw me playing it. I think many people have Ur Dragon decks, but they very rarely play them.
I do know another person with a Prismari deck and I know another with an Unesh deck (both had theirs before I had mine).
I guess my point is that EDHRec doesn't mean anything. I think the main thing about playing non powerful commanders is just that it's a lot more fun playing things that are different from the other things you frequently see or play.
I don't really think about this aspect because I only play by myself. But there's certain fun in brewing decks around an obscure commander for sure.
I argue that you haven't truly experienced life until you've built Atris, Oracle of Half-Truths Blink/Goodstuff. Fact or Fiction is my favorite Instant in the game so seeing a commander that has a mini one built in is absolute bliss! For maximum headache, run a Kozilek, Butcher of Truth that you never play. It's only job is to hit the graveyard so you can continue shenanigans!
I pack plenty of protection equipment and enchantments for Rielle the Everwise as well as several low mana spells/abilities that discard plenty. I have a few ways of boarding an additional body or two. I have a few different ways of eliminating players, commander damage, Conflagrate/burn spells that use the massive hand size, Psychosis Crawler/Glinthorn Buccaneers, or Lab Maniac (I don't think I've won with this yet). Generally, I'll one shot someone with my commander and eliminate the other two players with burn damage. I have like 6-7 counter spells, generally ones that play into my commander. Stubborn Denial is a 1 mana counter noncreature spell if I got a creature with 4+ power, something Rielle can quickly obtain with one of her abilities. Forbid and Foil are solid for two different reasons, Forbid is reusable while Foil is free mana (though it can be inconsistent as you need an island to discard). Overwhelming Denial helps ensure the more expensive wheeling spells resolve (sort of).
I've been playing a Zurzoth Chaosrider deck, I wanted to go into the semi chaos type theme decks. Even though he doesn't create tokens as fast as big old Krenko, he has the utility of removing target creatures or burning players with his tokens being removed and or dying. I have won 6 out of 7 matches so far with an underrated commander and it's been a lot of fun.
I like to build strategies around my commanders, but never to rely on them. My Thalisse, Reverent Medium deck runs exceptionally well when she is on board (even more with Ophiomancer and one of my sac outlets on board), but if she gets killed it runs smoothly. My Narci, Fable Singer deck uses Narci saga enders to gain life and deal damage, but I have other win cons aside from her triggered damage. If she is kept on board, that's great. If she gets removed often, It can stand up on it's own legs. Also, I like running fun and different commanders, keeping the aggro low on those cards.
The thing about deck building is that of you're a good deckbuilder, and overwhelmed your opponents with your deck several times, at this point it almost doesn't matter what you play, you will be a target for the sake of it. You need to always overcome and come back on top.
That’s totally true! If you pop off with one deck a bunch your friends will eventually catch on!
@@thetrinketmage that's not even that fair. I sometimes hear someone saying that I am a great deckbuilder, or an evil mind of some kind, but I tend to play commander engine commandres, which aren't that good if you will simply kill my commander, but no one actually do this for some rest and then Volo do it's Volo things, or Niv-Mizzet into curiosity happens, and like, I just don't see much counterplay from my opps, that's why I am winning so much. And then they on their tribal decks are just attacking me all the time next game, and I have something like a propaganda and they call me boring.)))
I am not a great deckbuilder, I swear, I just use my cards to their full potential.))
Sounds like your opponents need to play more removal
@@thetrinketmage exactly, I was saying it for years now, and it seems they didn't get it yet.)))
@@ghouluoshe8001 you are playing niv mizzet curiosity, your opinion is voided.
I play Powerful commanders because I want to play with some of my Favorite Characters in Magic, Have a fun playstyle or Build a themed deck around them.
My Current "Powerful Commanders" Are Atraxa, K'rrik, Kenrith and Obeka.
-Atraxa is Praetor Tribal and the Deck is built around surving long enough to start the Invasion with Realmbreaker
-K'rrik allows to really stress test the "Life is a resource" phrase and gamble my life down to 0 and see if I can bounce back to 40 (Or in some cases how deep into the negative I can go)
-Obeka has no real win con besides doing my best to Politic and See what Shenanigans I can cause with Hive Mind while I wait to play Last Chance
-Kenrith is my newest Themed deck and its "Hell's Royal Kitchen" Where Kenrith is just the face of the Deck and the Real Commander(s) is all the Chef legendary creatures all Trying to run a kitchen and pump out tons of food and Treasure token
Urza Lord High Artificer is one of the few commanders you CAN'T make a 'casual' version of.
You could have a deck with Urza, 39 Islands, and 60 RANDOMLY selected artifacts and you would STILL have a decent chance of rolling the table.
Hmmmmm this could be an idea for a video
@@thetrinketmage See also commanders like Winota, Najeela, Kinnan, Korvald, Orvar, etc.
I keep wanting to build Gretchen Titchwillow as a Simic landfall value engine commander. But i'm definitely that way as a seasoned Magic player, I mean even ones that aren't the "big bads" like Urza, but like Shalai and Hallar is one of those commanders you just want to blow up as fast as possible
I usually just tell the table my game plan. Everyone seems to be okay with what I’m doing whenever I play my decks. I main Krenko tin street kingpin but as a voltron deck. People just like it when you’re honest. And don’t try hard right out of the gate unless they are looking for that kinda game. Just ask your table what kinda game they are looking to play and you’ll be fine
You sit at a table with me and you run red/blue anything you catching these hands, everyone should know by now never let blue cook
Phage the untouchable is one of the most underrated and funny commanders I have played
I changed my Meren deck as Old rustein deck and it's been way more succesfully, no single removal has been pointed on Old rustein and 4 toughness keeps my hp pretty healty.
Only four of my currently 15 commanders are in the top 100, and I only use those to match power for power in the right situation. Of those are Niv Mizzet Parun (no infinite), Windgrace, Liesa (Lifestax), and Feather with blink synergies. Everything else is way farther down.
I honestly kinda stumbled into playing yuriko. I got into the game around Kamigawa Neon Dynasty and happened to have a lot of ninjas because I tried (and failed) to make my ninja theme booster into a coherent deck. So when I got back into magic a year ago I already had most of starting pieces for the deck and built it not realizing how infamous she was. I’ve learned to own how busted she is and warn people ahead of time that I don’t pull punches with it.
Hidden commanders are great. I have a Xyris deck with Magnus the Red as the hidden commander. It's loaded with card draw, green tutors, and recursion, so it's probably my most consistent deck.
I noticed in my games commanders like Jodah /unifier got hard targeted, while my other commanders that are cheaper and less threatening don't even get glanced at. Like Aegar, the freezing flsame.
My kresh the bloodbraided deck has this vibe a bit, it doesn’t take much to figure out he can get pretty disgusting but people underestimate how quick it can happen at first. Ppl have let me live at 5 health thinking I was out of the game only for me to buff kresh back up in one turn and play a Chandras ignition for game lol
The first deck I bought was a $50 Krenko deck. I went against a $1k Lord Windgrace and a $600 Korvold deck (cant remember the other). I kept getting targeted, and ever since then, I always scroll down to 250 on EDHrec, and then start looking. No more popular commanders for me
I think you hit on why my rakka mar deck does so well. Its not seen as a threat until its to late. I've assembled a thousand ways to make a lightning bolt multiple times
One of my fav underrated decks are mono white storm helmed by mavinda, the deck wins by storming off with a huge amount of the "shittest white cantrip you've ever seen in the history of magic", people never remove my commander, because just from the look it really doesn't to that much untill I've dropped a aetherflux and draw 30 card a turn to win
Do you have a deck list?
I have some top 100 commanders, some underrated commanders and some that were underrated then everyone started playing them. My favorite underrated commander is Ganax//Iron Throne
I like casual decks. One deck I am trying to build is a wurm tribal deck with some mana dorks. The commander for it is Baru, Wurmspeaker. I call the deck Can of Worms.
Is there any chance you could make a discord to discuss edh strategies with other people?
Eventually if the channel gets big enough I’d consider making a discord but it wouldn’t be for a while.
I made a somehow strong Jhoira, Ageless Innovator deck, where I try to proliferate and protect my commander for a bit so I can get a turn 5-6 massive game ending artifact on the field.
Wish this was true for the group i play magic with…but it’s the exact opposite, if they don’t know what your deck does you are immediately scene as a threat and killed.
I’ve been running into the problem of being instantly targeted because I’m playing yawgmoth. Does anyone have a good substitute to run as the commander and put yawgmoth in my 99?
Is it aristocrats or just good stuff?
It's so annoying that there is still no mardu synergic vampires outside of markov. He is also not reprinted and is 80 bucks
I know I really want some more 3 color sets to get more commanders in these color combos!
@@thetrinketmage yeah... i just want a mardu vampire that isn't markov lol. Mathas is fun but he just doesn't fit the gameplay
Have you considered Licia?
Not vampires specifically but there is a lot of overlap with vampires and lifelink/drain effects.
@@zackkelley2940 unfortunately it's not really what i want
If you're playing vampires tribal, unfortunately Edgar is by far the best option. I am thankful I grabbed all the commanders that year, 2017. Eminence is such a powerful ability, and you get benefit even if your commander never hits the field. Nothing else in those colors comes close to what he does. I agree he badly needs reprinted to drive the cost down, and other comparable options need be made, possibly with other colors.
I have two decks: Korvold Fey Cursed King, and Renari Merchant of Marvels with the Acolyte of Bahamut background. Korvold is objectively a stronger deck but I tend to have way more fun with Renari because A) it's a more interesting game play loop and B) Renari tends to stay on the battlefield way longer because it's a value piece and not my Wincon.
to be honest im just going to use Anikthea to make a Out of Time zombie creature token, phasing out everything indefinetely and sacrificing her in response. Play whatever you want.
I tend to not play over-powered commanders. OG Brimaz, Mogis is my current favorite deck, & I enjoy pulling out my Liesa, Shroud of Dusk deck. I put a Ghyrson Starn deck that can be surprisingly effective. The only OP commander I've built around is Chulane & that one started out as a budget deck.
A friend of mine has a krenko deck that can overrun you with gobos in just a few turns so when we play my maingoal is just to keep his commander off the board.
I fundamentally disagree with this logic.
If you're looking to play powerful commanders, you're looking to play powerful magic.
Taking a deceptive strategy Can bite you after the first game. Between game politics and whatnot. The brewer's advantage is just not something to build for.
I play a lot of unique pairings. I have a Ravos Armix deck that has like 5 total decks on edhrec. I Keep my lists unlisted but it's a smokestax deck where ravos picks up the card to discard to armix's attack trigger
I play a turbo fog deck that uses Ikra shidiqi and ludevic necro alchemist. Gain life and draw a card and reward my opponents.
I don't see the point of "I want a strategy that has a powerful plan but I don't want a powerful commander. I do understand paying jank commanders for a purpose, so long as that purpose is not "this other deck but worse"
This will not stop me for I hate them more than they hate me😂
Cool video, i use your idea with my galadriel of lothlorien scrying/tribal deck (blue elves go brrrr)
Honestly I have a Rats deck with Totentanz, Swarm Piper as the commander, I have no real better way to explain its strategy except for "damage cheating", I've played maybe 10 or so games with it and it has a 90% WR even into stronger pods, genuinely no idea how.
I think its a great thing to tell people to play more diverse and underplayed commanders, but what this video boiled down to was "If you want to play a urza thopter deck, actually just play this completely different mono blue voltron deck to catch people off guard" which is weird. cause if I really like urza and really like thopters, why cant I just do that?
Another thing you keep mentioning is the surprise factor, which is a very weak argument in my opinion since it only really works once, and the only thing it does is help you winning, which of course is nice, but in casual commander I care less about winning and more about having fun, and tricking my opponents just to win doesnt feel very fun to me. Over all this is a great video showcasing some underplayed commanders, but I dont like telling people to stop playing commanders they might like just for some weird mind game.
One last thing, you also mentioned playing specific commanders usually gets you targeted and/or playing seemingly weak commanders doesnt and means they stay around longer. That just sounds like you have opponents with poor threat assessment, or are just very vindictive and just target you for a very poor reason. Any commander is good enough to be spot removed, since most if not all legendaries can be dangrous if properly built around.
Great video, but I feel like itt wouldve been better as just "here are some cool underplayed commanders you should try"
I think decks with sticky commanders like koma are able to be powerful because I find he doesn’t get removed more often than other decks
The absolute strongest commander I have access to is Go-Shintai. Someone wanted a few of my collector fetch lands and traded me the entire deck for three of them.
I generally do not play Go-Shintai because I find that commander to be so absolutely busted it isn't fun for the table...enchantment spam is a ludicrously easy wincon because WotC seems vehement in giving only two colors consistent enchantment removal... In a few turns if someone doesn't have a Farewell or Merciless Eviction I'm basically untouchable with it and even combat damage just won't be enough.
Enchantment focus is far, far too strong. I don't understand why only White and Green can regularly deal with enchantments...
EMBRACE THE JANK
Don't tell me what to do. I'll play Omnath and Edgar if I want to and I'll gladly take the hate but I'm up front about it and only play them in 7.5-8 power lobbys
I just pick whatever commanders I like. As long as they do their thing I don’t care if I cast them 4 times a game.
“Oh I only play prosper. Sure they aren’t that h-“
*Looks at edhrec and sees he’s 13th*
“…S***”
I play mostly just with the same 2 people plus one random other person that one of those 2 people play with. Neither of them, and most of the other randoms that join, are very familiar with all of the supposedly popular commanders. Moreover once you've played a deck once or twice with the same group of people you aren't surprising them much longer with the general flavor of your deck. This video focuses on, or spends more time talking about one particular advantage than any other advantage, hiding what your deck is capable of so that people don't just focus you or your general; this doesn't really apply when you've played the same deck a few times with other people and they know what your deck and your commander do and how consistent your deck is.
Now there were a lot of other good points in the video, like how your opponents are less likely to hold an answer to a combo piece they've never seen before (something in your hand) than something they know you have access to. These points still have a lot of value and I won't deny that. It's just that the amount of focus placed on that one particular advantage that doesn't seem to apply much to me and probably a good handful of other people unfortunately reduces the quality of the video in my eyes.
I think there's also just people who will take a card they like from 60 card formats and build around that.
Instead of Rona, Herald of Invasion, I use Vohar, Vodalian Desecrator because he's been great in the UB control deck I play in standard
For a RB aggro deck, I use Valki, Cosmic Imposter // Totally Not Tibalt instead of Rakdos
Valki-Tibalt is awesome
my main deck i run is a Karlov of the Ghost Council deck, where i basically focus on pings to grow him huge and have removal on a stick. all for two orzhov mana. i keep destroying my friends mono green elf deck. and i stay so low profile to the other players that im never actually the target until its too late
Got into magic recently and elesh norn is one of the commanders I got early on. But I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try using mangara.
When I play galezeth I get focused. Voltron dragon tossing nothing but counters is quite fun.
I have both jhoira and galazeth decks and they play completly different, but about jhoira it might be true that if they let her on the field 1 turn she can aways come back. markov its vampires on easy mode, you cant even deal with the eminence
It’s hard to build less powerful decks with powerful commanders, so I think it’s best to not try and just use a different commander like your saying
I really want to build a Shirei Shizos Caretaker Deck, I just don’t know where to go with it
Easiest thing to do is play aristocrats probably check out his edhrec page
I mostly play powerful commanders and if I get targeted Im always able to come back because i build my decks overall strong. If you wanna play a cool archetype you should just use a good commander for it. More often then not its gonna give you better games then just chosing some random commanders. Also a lot of other players might also play powerful stuff so this whole mentality doesnt exist. Also the argument that you can put those strong commanders in you commander deck with a "bad" commander doesnt make sense. Just chose a good commander and on top of that put good legends in it.
I built a myrel deck, no, while the commander seems pretty good at face value. She combos crazy with a bunch of other white cards. my best deck I’ve built so far.
One of my decks is a Jodah Eternal Archmage, and is very fun to play with and against it because is not an imminent threath
Isn’t he a massive threat?
Can you share your deck list or favorite cards? My Zur deck is inducing some salt, so I picked up Archmage. I know Unifier is the better Jodah, but he doesn’t give me the cool wizard vibes as Archmage.
i only really build decks around weird mechanics. And if i do play a strong deck with a good commander then i will tell my playgroup beforehand.
I built my FBLTHP the Lost deck 4 years ago and it barely exceeds 500 EDHREC decks posted... FBLTHP and Borborgymos just over a 1000, poor little mono blue homunculus is, well, lost but not to me. FBLTHP is a hilarious commander that most other players are not familiar with and I have yet to have a game where the opponent afterwards is like, ''I HATE YOUR DECK'' so for a mono Blue ''Good stuffs'' deck that is amazing! By Good Stuffs I mean classics: Rhystic Study, Mana Drain, Venser, Consecrated Sphinx, Cyclonic Rift, Thassa Oracle, etc... and strangely no one is annoyed by this deck which simply follows the whims of the sea tide goes out, tide comes in hence the name of the deck is FBLOOPS: you play blue board wipes returning everything to your hand to play those silly ETB's all over again and get the spells back it wins by: Infintie mana, Drawing out the deck+ Thassa oracle or Infinite mana return all permanents to hand or boring old damage :P
I think Fblthp is a really interesting and fun commander!
Personally, I look for commanders that enable weird/unique playstyles but that aren't too mean. Example: Tergrids ability sounded incredibly fun to me... until I had disgusting game with her where I felt bad for opponents lmfao
unfortunately, I have only made deck with uncommon commandes that scare other players even though the decks are pretty bad. They see a kaumonix hit the board and almost always kill it on sight.
Honestly, I get more hate with my Urtet than my Edgar
Really? I don’t think I’ve ever even seen an Urtet deck. Is he really that good?
I play kresh the blood braided as a front for a lot of Jund commanders. Deck is go wide sack to go big and punishes players who try to meet it on an aggro match. I rarely bring out kresh though so I kind of feel bad.