You're not allowed in this cave. But there's a copy.
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- Опубликовано: 8 май 2022
- The Chauvet cave, in the south of France, is one of the most important archaeological sites in the world, filled with art that's tens of millennia old. No-one's allowed in, for very good reasons: but just a few kilometres away, there's a near-exact copy. Is that enough?
Camera: Simon Gillouin
Editor: Dave Stevenson davestevenson.co.uk
Producer: Axel Zeiliger block8production.com
More about Chauvet II: grottechauvet2ardeche.com/
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I kept having to check and recheck my script while researching and recording this, because I kept thinking that surely "30,000 years" or "tens of millennia" must be wrong. It's not wrong.
don’t forget about wales 🏴
Huh.
thamks
One view and 44 likes explain that tom
Thought this was going to be about lasceux damn
I can't wait until like 20 000 years in the future when another Tom Scott has to come here to talk about the weird identical caves and how they are making a third as not to disturb either of them.
Bold of you to assume we won't have destroyed ourselves in 20k years.
@Sir Eebral I wouldn't lay money on it but it sure is possible.
@Sir Eebral Climate change is bs though, and a nuclear war simply won't ever happen.
@@marvindebot3264 We will, I never said that this future Tom Scott (or even the current Tom Scott) is human.
Concrete doesn't last though. Modern Concrete Buildings have a Life Expectancy of merely over a Century before they become brittle, and one can only imagine what 10,000+ Years will do to Concrete.
For the sake of preservation this seems like a great compromise. It's location to the orginal site I think gives the replica increased credibility.
🙀🙀
I would have liked it to be a complete copy, but i understand it wouldn't be done, but imagine having to climb into the recreated cave and having to look at the art with a wooden torch with the directions to find that art coming from other people who visited before you, you could say handed down the generations
@@MrTrilbe That would have certainly up the authenticity.
Your anchestors are from persia mr Armenian
@@MrTrilbe Lascaux, another cave in France which is closed to the public has a complete copy
“they did not just merely survive, they lived”
probably the most succinct and poignant explanation of the importance of these discoveries.
654 Likes and No Reply?
@@yunusjauhari I guess.
Made me think of the videogame Soma
Makes me wonder about the pros and cons to living in those times. Just what exactly was the ratio of "living : surviving"? Was life in those times relatively blissful?
@@brendenpischke6060 Cavemen had a lot more free time than we do now, but had to constantly worry about finding more food. Also very little to do with that extra time, no games, no books, etc.
When I was a kid, it was hard to imagine my parents weren't always old. The older I got, the more I understood that my father was once a child as was his grandfather and so on. The idea that there used to be someone my age living in that cave 30,000+ years ago truly blows my mind.
you eventually reach an age in the modern day that no one from back then could have due to sanitation or lifestyle or diet, and that will (hopefully) also be true for our descendants in 30,000+ years time
@@Bruh234 actually, as far as I can tell, there's actually good evidence that pre-agricultural life expectancy was much higher than after the agricultural revolution. I don't think that necessarily people living in the paleolithic were any worse off than us in that respect.
@@Bruh234 don't be so sure of that. Cities from the bronze age minoans showed a lifestyle very similar to us, both in sanitary as in livingstandards... just w/o all the electronical gadgetry we have today.
@@Bruh234 on average? absolutely, however a lucky few grew quite old, in fact if you hit 15 you were likely to hit 60 or even as old as 80. I doubt modern medicine unlocked the ability to reach 100, merely made it a lot less dependent on chance
@@oneringtorulethemagicarp7199 Yes and no. It was much more difficult to get proper nutrition in older times, and no one knew e.g. that smoke could accelerate aging of the lungs, or that radiation could accelerate aging of all tissues, so no one knew to avoid exposure to either. At the same time, caloric restriction is one of the most effective ways to postpone several aging-associated degenerative processes, and people of the past were far less likely to intake unnecessary calories than modern people are.
We should do this for every cave. Double the amount of caves in the world.
Earth: Cave Update
But then we'd have to double them again and at some point we'd have only caves and no earth left
@@TheThirdPrice that's fine, everyone likes living in caves anyway
But then 10,000 years from now our descendants might have the same idea and also dupe our dupe caves, and so on, so in a million years the entire earth is hollow. Best not risk it.
@@TheThirdPrice how many earth's will it take to cave-even out?
“…they did not just merely survive. They lived.”
Okay THAT was the most poignant thing I’ve heard in quite a while. What a change of perspective that single concept can provide all of us about the habits and experiences of our ancestors from so very long ago.
Don't you just love that you not merely survived, but lived?
I wish we could say the same
They had free time to enjoy hobbies.
Clearly capitalism hadn't taken hold yet. Now we have our 40-50 hour per week main gig, plus a side gig of driving for Uber or GrubHub. This doesn't feel like progress.
@@stevechance150 retvrn to tradition. Hunt mammoths, live in caves, die of disease at 35. A simpler time.
@@jamescollier2456 One third of your life is spent at work. That isn't living.
I was actually a bit shocked to hear about how Lascaux was destroyed. When I heard you say it was opened for tourists, I was expecting that it eventually got ruined because some people are jerks; people putting graffiti over it for instance, or leaving tons of litter.
But no, the actual cause of destruction was just having people in there frequently. That's sad, but also interesting.
Thankfully Lascaux also has a recreated cave. Though the original was damaged its legacy lives on
When people exist
The price of too many people, and biodegradable painting supplies lasting thousands of years sadly.
Interestingly this is also why gallery paintings are so babied by their caretakers.
@@Topoftheworld121 three actually, but yes. Seeing the newest reconstruction definitely was one of the experiences that made me want to change career paths just to be able to go into a very special place that has insanely restricted access (the other one was seeing the Baroque library hall in the Clementinum in Prague)
I've been to dripstone caves where apparently every idiot has to touch the stalactites. The administrators and guides either don't care or they're not strict enough. It's horrible. I'd rather have nobody and me not visiting these places than me and every idiot.
The fact that the original exists is enough for me. Knowing that the paintings survive *because* of the recreation and the care put into it brings value to the replica. It's not a "cheap knock off". It's a key to preserving the original so that future generations and scientists can see the original when/if necessary.
I have no problem with making a duplicate cave, especially for something that's so sensitive. I've personally seen many places where people ruined glyphs and other historic relics.
Agreed. as a former cave guide it sickens me how many local caves are slowly being destroyed by visitors of all types touching walls and bringing in all sorts of weird funk that ends up growing around lamps and other areas. Almost tragic in its own right.
@@jr540123 @ Erik The Viking Not to mention the "Less than Enlightened", trying be a bit polite here, that think they need to leave their personal mark on places like this. They seem to think that what was created needs their personal "Improvement".
Would be nice to see ancient wonders rebuilt. The colossus of rhodes, pyramids of ghiza (in their former glory), gardens of babylon. It's not like we have the infrastructure budget what with all the vital military spending but it'd be nice.
@@ktcd1172 It's funny to think that the people who lived back then might have thought those who left the original drawings on the caves were "less than enlightened" too. They might have even thought the cave's spirit would be insulted that humans drew on it.
how does Tom always find people with the most soothing voices to interview?
I thought that guy was a deepfake of Jean Claude Van Damme.
Omg yes idk what it is but he's got a pleasant, eloquent manner of speaking and goes into the right technical details, love it
Prob a rhetorical question but the answer I always assumed is that Tom contacts the company responsible, then the company sends in 'the best employee to handle interviewing'.
I'm impressed by the artistic skill of these, when pop culture shows us cave paintings it's always either very crude or at least highly stylized.
But this? It's actually very realistic and you can see that the artist(s) spend lots of time observing the real animals.
For some reason people think that our ancient ancestors were incompetent, which is quite untrue. They were very smart, maybe even smarter than modern people in some aspects (such as spatial awareness) so they had plenty of time over their tens of thousands of years of existence as a culture to develop some very interesting skills and ways of viewing the world (shamanism being an example of that).
I've been in that replica cave and Tom's video does not convey the sheer beauty and life like realism of some of the paintings.
@@hungrymusicwolf it's something that often gets overlooked I think. Within those people however thousands of years ago lies the modern mind. The same mind that dreamed of astrology and physics to engineering and coding. They still functioned with the same thought processes as the modern human. It gets overlooked I believe because while evolution takes millions of years, but this was thousands of years ago, most people chalk it all up to "a long time ago" with no distinction between the two. It's difficult to comprehend that someone thousands of years ago could think with the same rationale as a modern person.
@@OscarRodriguez-wm7dg It's not just overlooked because of the evolution.
It's also overlooked because many people confuse Knowledge with Intelligence. They think because people lacked the accumulated knowledge we've gathered over 10,000+ years that they were idiots, who couldn't even grasp basic counting or pattern recognition.
@@hungrymusicwolf But it was all aliens! Have you heard about the pyramids???
In all seriousness tho, I strongly believe that our ancient ancestors were so much more intelligent than the plain meat ball that we are today. As KaguroDraven said, knowledge is different from intelligence and oh boy, the human being is getting less and less intelligent although it is accumulating more knowledge (still debatable tho)
I dont have much faith in the humanity as you can see lmao
When the employee said "They didn't merely survive, they lived." - That was something I never considered for our ancestors because we learn that they were hunting, learning to make fire, weapons, etc., all for the ultimate goal of survival and we never take time to think about what they might have done when they weren't surviving. Really opened my mind to thinking about a (albeit primitive) civilization and less about pack hunters.
Great video!
Agreed. That's a very meaningful statement. I work on ancient stuff (not this ancient, mind), and by reading ancient texts I get to see some of these humanizing elements. But even then, it can sometimes be easy to forget, so I really appreciated the acknowledgement that people are people and have been people for a long long time. Some things change, some things don't.
This will stick with me.
Brian Cox said the exact same thing. Word for word.
@@Ashes3123 So did Courtney Cox.
Definitely. Humans are unique animals, as we can think about our own existence. Our forefathers here were probably pondering thoughts about existence as well
I'm not quite sure what amazes me more. That they made an identical copy of the cave or that a (presumably) French guide has such an awesome English pronounciation. Smooth as butter.
I spent a week in that region, and nobody that met that is from that area spoke a bit of English. Plenty of British tourists, but the locals only spoke French and a tiny bit of German even though this is in Southern France. I'm sure that there are several English speaking guides there though.
He's probably a replicant himself.
Frackin' Cylon!
@@JThyroid as a guide from the chauvet cave, i can assure u he's french, but really really good in speaking english
@@JThyroid one out of five speak good english. (i was one of them;)
I’m from and still live in the US South. We have one of the highest cave densities in the world. 99% of those caves do not allow anyone but certified speleologists inside. The specific location of these caves is not public information. All for preservation purposes. Some are rather drab, others are historic or geologically unique. All of them can be harmed by heavy human traffic.
Having visited the one at Lascaux I can confirm that it was amazing regardless of not being the real deal, it's almost like an immersive art gallery with the lighting and not having to watch your step, etc so in a way I feel like it allows you to appreciate or get lost in the art itself far more... mind blowing to see really!
Given how there's always one or two tourists that don't much care about the environment they're in as much as most sane people do, recreating the cave like that is perfect to preserve the original whilst letting everyone experience the secret space that was discovered.
is your profile picture Megabyte's symbol from ReBoot? you have good taste, my friend.
@@sylvester452 Yes, I am also known as Haku of Haku's ReBoot Museum :)
You realise (part of) the reason the cave was closed was by changes on its atmosphere? People weren’t deliberately destroying the cave.
@Jaime P
The atmosphere changes because those irrespectful tourists breath too much
@@jaimep_ Most tourists don't deliberately destroy caves, but some like to leave their traces behind by carving into the walls with keys or writing on them with pens. It's only a small percentage that does this, but with so many visitors, even a small percentage can be devastating.
Just the thought of having the cave open to the public gives me anxiety. Such amazing art and history. Creating the replica was a great idea!
Imagine being charged with replicating this accurately though - I would be so stressed lmao. It makes it all the more amazing
"Just the thought of having the cave open to the public gives me anxiety." No it does not.
@@cluaintarbh531 are you next to them?
@@cluaintarbh531 Invalidate other person's feelings in four words...
@@cluaintarbh531 yes it does
Prove them wrong, you wont
5:20...I love this idea, its hilarious.
In the north of Spain there's the "Parque de la Prehistoria", where a "Cave of caves" was built, recreating to the millimeter three rooms from three different caves around the world. The feeling while visiting it is truly mesmerising, and I don't think it falls short from the real experience
Hey! I'm from around there! One thing the video cannot show is the feeling you get inside the repli-cave (see what I did there) - not only is the temperature close to what it is in the actual cave, but there's also a soundscape designed to be more immersive. The detailing of the sculpted walls is also staggering. I went there on a school trip when the cave was not quite finished and not opened to the public yet, and there were still dozens of people adding resin to the walls to give them a wet sheen, to add texture and details... it's truly a staggering amount of work.
Also, regarding the "it's not the real thing" ordeal, as a local I'm very glad that we're still able to experience something akin to the real thing without damaging it. The irreversible damage in Lascaux is a real tragedy and I feel like the overwhelming consensus is relief knowing that Chauvet will get to be preserved AND shown off safely. There is a real local pride in the existence of these caves in the region, and it's nice to see that there was a way of sharing the history while preserving it!
But surely the smell is all wrong.
I don't think the "it's not the real thing" ordeal is really important. This is as close to the "real thing" as we can currently get; complaining that it's not genuine is quite selfish really, since the alternative is actually seeing the real thing and likely damaging it. This would ruin it for everyone else, not to mention future generations
+1 for replicave, which for added bonus works in French as well
@@ek-nz Caves don't generally have a smell... the absence of light means there's no plants or algae (or anything that lives on vegetable matter), and hence nothing really that can decompose (and create a smell).
(The lack of algae is also why wet rocks in caves aren't slippery).
@@tompw3141 Well they sometimes kinda smell like sulfur due to ground water seeping through.
I've been there three years ago. If you "let go" then all the art on the walls becomes "real" and leaves you in astonishment of what those artists were capable of. All in all, the cave, although being a replica, gives you the feeling of witnessing something, being in the presence of something unique. All the discussion about the question of a replica being of any kind of sense is like asking if going to see a movie makes sense. It's a fantastic ability of the brain to trick us into taking something for real which isn't, to create real emotions from something "artificial".
I hear you. Still It's not the same, I think.
I used to live next to a Nazi rocket building place, where they had a village with 50+ km of tunnels underneath it.
Sometimes you walk for a long while through narrow tunnels, to all of a sudden see a rusty hook, an anti-personnel mine or similar, knowing it's either from the 1940s, while people were in war. Or from even before that, where the mine was still used as an actual mine for mining slate.
It's exactly the feeling, taste, smell and sense (and particularly the fact you get rewarded, after 20 minutes of walking, by a little mysterious rusty thing hanging on the wall or laying around) that makes it so special. I have my doubts a replica can exactly replicate that (probably most people don't as the people either never been in the original or in the replica). Also, we are never sure, that the replica exactly represents the original, maybe they altered something for the sake of making it more entertaining, exciting or whatever; as we have never seen the original.
It's great to see that a replica can look so real, though it makes me worried as well. As we can alter history to a point, where we believe things that might be actually different in reality.
@@KazuyaYuza hear hear
What makes us human is the ability to create meaning where there is none. Otherwise the world would just be lumps of rocks.
If you’re able to see it by fire light it’s actually moving like a movie.
@@KazuyaYuza "As we can alter history to a point, where we believe things that might be actually different in reality.". I share your worries. With the ability of altering pictures to an extend where you just can't be sure what's real anymore it is of high importance to know the original. It's the ambiguity of live taken to a level where it has become easy to spread division, to deveive and to gain power. What a surprise that a little clip about a replica of a cave rises one of the most important philosphical question of our time and one of all time: what is reality?
I'm so glad they also recreated the 10s of thousands years old lighting, although it would have been nice if visitors were given a flickering LED torch. Seeing the cave and painting from faux firelight may just make it more real.
I like that idea. 👍🏻
But i guess safety might be an issue if the cave was dark.
nah, go proper authentic and just hand everyone a flaming torch at the entrance, oh, and no barriers! I know it couldn't really be done on scale, but would be amazing as small group special events!
I remember a documentary about this, and from the look of some of the paintings the researchers said it seemed like the original artist took advantage of the existing rock shapes to make basic "animated" drawings, based on how moving fire light would flicker the light over the uneven textures of the surface. Fascinating stuff.
@@KreeTheBasilisk That's exactly what I was thinking of! Imagine seeing the pictures from flickering, strobing fire.
Just by the title I was kind of expecting a video about Lascaux, wasn't aware there was a second cave with ancient art. But great to see that they learned from their mistakes and didn't open Chauvet to the public. And a near-identical copy slightly adjusted to make it less of a walk (and more accessible) is IMHO the best way to show people what our ancestors did without endangering the actual legacy they left.
Chauvet is also twice as old as Lascaux so opening it to the public would have been an even greater disaster.
Absolutely, the recreation is enough. Most people will only ever see that art through a phone screen. The relatively few who get to see the recreation are only doing so because they want the full immersive experience. Tourists can get that from a replica easier than they can the original, and the original will be preserved for future researchers who actually DO need the original for legitimate research purposes.
And since it's next to the original it just great, as you can explain why the replica was created .The replica is a family attraction even suitable for disabled people.
Like Tom sait, it would be completely different if it would be in paris.
I visited some caves and when you see the stalagmites that were ruined because people don't unterstand "just look, don't touch" you just feel sick
@@mammutMK2 I think it would be awesome if they installed another one of these cave replicas in my country so I could visit it. I wouldn't even be worried that it was a replica.
@@WarrenGarabrandt reminds me of how Las Vegas copied the Eiffel tower so they wouldn't have to go to Paris
Sure. But I still would've liked if they did allow some video makers (eg Tom Scott) to go into the original cave - perhaps in an airtight suit with a rebreather to prevent damage to the cave. Seeing a recreation in person is probably rather nice. Seeing that recreation on video is silly - why look up a reproduction of the Mona Lisa when you can see a photo of the real one instead?
@@Vousie Well I don't really think someone like Tom Scott has anywhere near the credentials to be able to actually visit the real cave. And like the entire point is to have people not visit the original so letting him in would defeat the purpose, the point is to get people to visit the replica.
Tourists: "I wish I could see this unique cave without ruining it."
Researchers: "There is another."
This is getting out of hands! Now there are 2 of them!
Always two, there are.
No more, no less
If I had a dollar for every Chauvet caves there are, I would have two dollars. Which isn’t a lot but it’s weird that there are two of them.
Two of them.
I saw Herzog's Cave of Forgotten Dreams in 3D some years back, and it's one of the very few occasions where I've been happy it was in 3D, because you got a real feeling for the very far from flat surfaces the paintings were made on, something you never get from reproductions in books and the like. And I was always perfectly fine with the Chauvet cave being off limits to most everyone, because it's amazing, and I hope it will remain so! So a copy seems like the perfect solution to a problem I didn't have.
Though I'm not sure how I feel about cutting out the boring passages... Sometimes empty space is important in art.
On top of that, I can imagine how the firelight from a torch or a lamp could kinda animate some of the art. That must've been amazing to people who lived thousands of years before flipbooks, let alone animated screens!
(EDIT: I accidentally a word)
Yes, I suspect the difficulty of getting to the place where the paintings are was an intentional part of the experience when they were made.
For them to film inside the actual cave is amazing and adds a level of awe and wonderment I didn't think was possible.
If actually being in a cave with prehistoric paintings is important to you, there are a few that you can still visit. They’re mostly caves with a larger interior area (this lessens the environmental impact), and you have to visit on guided tours. I’ve been to the Grottes de Niaux in the French Pyrenees, and you can actually see the real paintings in person there. I think the guide only uses flashlights to illuminate the paintings as well, so there’s no infrastructure or permanent light. They said that that cave’s atmosphere, even though it’s been tightly monitored, hasn’t been affected.
this one is a lot older than all others. Lascaux is 20000, chauvet is 36000
It's an awesome visit, highly recommend !
This is a great idea. I personally would prefer to walk through a replica if that means the original can be preserved for thousands of years after I am gone
They build a copy for Billions of dollars and no video and photo of the original cave? This is not what I expect from sience...Who paid for this copy? What interests do they realy have?
@@rubberduck777 Their interests are to spread awareness of ancient history and to educate about our ancient ancestors. If you want to be cynical, though, they do charge an admission fee and have a gift shop. So it's not like they're getting none of that money back.
I'd go see the replica. Knowing the original is safe from, to put it kindly the "not so careful tourist" that are bound to show up, gives me a sense of relief.
Everyone, from the more careful and respectful of tourists to the most careless, could and would damage the cave just by breathing and being in it.
"They didn't merely survive, they lived." - That one hit me hard. Quitting my job right now because I couldn't make a single sketch for months now, just bidding my last days there and after that I'll get a bit of rest and get back to drawing.
Good luck!
But then you'll "live" for a while but won't survive ☹️
@@N0Xa880iUL There are less soul destroying jobs out there. Besides what is the point of merely surviving?
@@boginoid Good luck; I’ve been contemplating doing the same thing; feeling burned out and not sure it’s worth slogging through just for a paycheck.
"They do not just merely survive; they live."
What a great quote to end on
I cant imagine how many more caves like this that's undiscovered around the world. What a magical experience.
There's 7642 undiscovered caves out there
It makes you wonder what the world looked like in those days. How much of the rocks and cliffs were painted and we'll never know because it was all weathered away.
@@skullbearer Exactly. Not to mention the earth does change its own landscape over the time and probably most of it got drown down by the ocean/destroyed by earthquakes etc.
Even when they are found, humans will destroy them for oil. Like what was done in Australia to aboriginal art.
@@ZincOxideGinger Your cynicism will be your downfall, the fact that we made one replica shows our humanity, our ability to create and mantain the love from the past
greed is strong but love and humanity is stronger, and history is nothing but the perfect example of our humanity
I remember reading about Lascaux in John Green's book The Anthropocene Reviewed. Absolutely incredible how easy it is to permanently alter prehistoric relics.
I was trying to remember why that was familiar. Thank you :)
I once read that it was discovered by a church group trying to clean up graffiti and they ended up DESTROYING 10,000 YEAR OLD CAVE PAINTINGS.
I always remember that gif of someone breaking a skull with hammer
Of every single place you have visited Tom, this one immediately jumped to the top of the list of places I also want to go. To know there is real conservation going on in the original cave and a painstaking recreation near it for actual visiting and education - incredibly cool. To think of the artists tasked with recreating those paintings and drawings, the concrete crew recreating the cave - what a fun job.
I’m a conservator and I learned about both this and Lascaux when I did my bachelors, and I think it’s an amazing idea. It’s a great way of protecting the past while simultaneously making sure people can experience it. Would love to go there some day!
That was eye-opening to think about. Because of course seeing the title I thought that it was due to the typical negligence and lack of care tourists regularly show, dumping garbage, touching things they should not, taking "souvenirs". It never occurred to me that someone could enter with the purest of intentions, "take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints" and still utterly devastate an important, irreplaceable part of history.
Problem is, humans are a great source of heat and moisture merely by breathing, two things which are typically damaging to art.
" ... leaving footprints ...."
@@Croz89 you call it "damaging".
I call it hastening it's final form.
"They do not just merely survive, they live."
That's so wonderfully poetic.
This may be far fetched, but I like to believe their lives might have actually felt more meaningful then ours. No alarmclock in the morning, no daycare or school, but actually learning what needs to be learned from your family, not clocking in at work, no trafficjams, no lonely old people that are put in homes.. how amazing must that have been?
I LOOOOOOOVE this idea. The fact that 3D scanning, printing, CNCs, and adding the human final touches back in to make this as authentic as possible is amazing to keep the originals preserved as much as possible. Would love to see how they replicate this in the future to keep the original, priceless artifacts in tact and away from the hands of tourists. Yes, most tourists are good but it only takes 1 most times.
As stated in the video, it was more about the unintentional impact: humidity and bacteria from breath and presence of so many people.
Personally, I find the replica even more inspiring than I find the real cave to be. Putting this replica together required techniques and technologies that show just how much progress we've made as a species since then, and the fact that this replica even exists shows that we as a species have come to respect and protect history and nature. This replica shows us both the past and the present, and gives me hope for the future.
I hear you, you can't allow thousands into Chauvet cave. But imagine the sense of stepping into it, sensing the weight of tens of thousands of years of human experience. Artists, thinkers and creators who happened to be born sooner on the cosmic timeline.
stop it
And is it worth it to destroy a millennial cave for your pleasure right now? The original must remain original
@@kadirkaya6292 Thats why they said I hear you and imagine
It would be selfish to sacrifice our collective ancient history for our fleeting experience.
Humanity deserves to have a connection to our ancient past even thousands, tens of thousands of years from now.
It likely be possible to recreate it in the future to actually be a 100% copy version directly to our brain, then we can take the experience with us anywhere.
Now let's not be greedy and destroy it, enjoy the best recreation we can make for now.
When humanity can project astral forms then sure, you can visit the original I’d say ;)
Incredible cave, and story! Sadly, here in Australia we have similar caves except from over 46,000 years ago that have been destroyed to make way for mining operations.. shows the priorities of our government and utter disregard for our history.. truly heartbreaking.
Unbelievably crass ☹️
Actually Native title and the native owners of the land have to give permission to the mining companies and receive payment during the life of the mine as well. If they don't care about their own history why should we!
It's probably because of the lack of rights/focus on the aborigines
@@jesuschrist7169 it isn't native history it's human history - 46000 years ago is in the last *ice age*. a site like that would be immensely valuable for history and science, much more so than a small mining operation making a few million in profit
@@jesuschrist7169 Don't be _that guy._
I visited Lascaux 2 in 1998 (it was fabulous). This will be well worth the visit too. Thank you. And the commentary about the art of our forebears and their culture was very illuminating.
What a monumental effort that was put into this recreation! It really shows the passion and desire of the curators to give visitors the most realistic experience. Great video as always.
👆👆👆📈
Could also be an easy way to make up a story for profit.
My favorite is when we discover ancient art from children and can see how similar they were developmentally compared to children today. Small things like drawing a head with arms and legs directly attached or faces without expression or missing parts. It really helps me feel a connection with the people from so long ago
Stick figures are truly the oldest form of art.
Ah sorry maybe you weren't refering to the cave in the video. I'm just so excited to have my hometown covered in a Tom Scott video, it's exhilarating
the human race hasn't really increased in mental capacity in thousands of years, we simply have the collective knowledge of thousands of years of history that we are building upon.
I think its fantastic. Things like this should not just be destroyed for the sake of tourism. Remaking the experience elsewhere helps to preserve the real one that is very delicate.
@Tommy Taffy kinda like anywhere else on this earth.
The art inside caves is just the art that survived-I love thinking about the art they must’ve done outside of caves that’s since been lost.
"They do not merely survive, they live."
Sometimes I forget how good I have it.
What strikes me the most here is the actual quality of the art. If it's really recreated exactly as it is in the original cave.
It's not just stylized drawings like you'd see in some other cave drawings... it shows a good understanding of shapes and anatomy, and some really good observation skills. It's comparable to what a good sketch-artist might draw today! The guy is absolutely right about the ancestors having free time.
This.
For something so fragile, I'd be more than satisfied to see a well crafted replica.
Same with the more famous Lascaux caves in France, you can’t go in them either but there is a reproduction of them too. 😊 Thank you for sharing!
“They did not merely survive, they lived.” One of the best quotes I’ve ever heard
I visited Chauvet 2 a few years ago and still think about it often. Even though I was in the replica, I recall feeling deeply emotionally moved by the art.
i thought this would be about lascaux, i'm pleasantly surprised that there are actually TWO caves full of prehistoric art with near-identical copies made of them
And Altamira, so three
Soon the replica of Cosquer (south of France) will be open !
@@jarana.9431 the song about Caves of Altamira is great!
I'd argue it doesn't matter, if people can find value and meaning in a copy whilst preserving the original for research until the end of time then its beneficial to everyone.
Tom, I can't thank you enough for making the videos you do. They do such a fantastic job of opening my eyes to all that exists out in the world and they inspire me to think in new ways. Thank you!
"It proves us that they not only just survived, but they lived" it's a great way to put it. They're not just mere cavemen.
In between all the cavemanning, they had a life.
Leisure is quite old.
(6:06) I love Tom's "moments of Zen" at the end of his videos. 😀 The juxtaposition of this sign in a recreation of a cave with thousands of years old paintings really shows just how related we are to those ancient humans who drew things by torchlight. Even as we are poised to leap to the stars, you can feel a kinship with that small group of humans eking out an existence and struggling for survival so long ago. 😎
Tom's TYMNK videos always end perfectly. Sometimes it's "One take!" and other times it's a poignant piece of poetry that perfectly punctuates the point of the video.
Thanks for all the videos Tom! Been watching for years now, and I really appreciate the quality!
Canoed under that natural rock bridge as a teenager, 37 years ago. L'Ardèche Gorge is a fab river to go down. Great video. Fabulous way to preserve precious sites.
My reaction is: All these scans that they did - can't they be recreated into a VR experience? How cool wouldn't it be to actually be able to walk into the real cave in VR...
I know they did it with Lascaux back when WR was at it's very start (so it was only on some specific equipments in some museums)
They could and here there is a VR youtube video of it! Type "The Dawn of Art" in youtube searchbox
If there's a monetary incentive to keep the cave scans from being released to the public, I think it's unlikely
Well Lascaux did it. They could
Given the lack of wheelchair access in so many caves, I'd very much appreciate such options being more widely available.
YES! We talked about both the original and the replica in my art history class last year. Super cool to see Tom cover this topic!
I’m so proud of myself because just by reading the title and thumbnail I knew exactly what you were talking about and I learnt it ages ago as well.
I went as a child, I remember it as a cave, not an attraction. One of those memories where you 'forget' the ground you are walking on, and remember the experience.
It's so wild that we could just make a copy of something that can't be open to the public for preservation purposes
I can only picture that conversation.
"I wish we could show people this"
"well... We have technology"
how comforting to know that some cave painters were in fact skilled artists
They were exactly the same as us. It's hard to imagine.
@@ericconnor8419 We haven't changed much at all.
Not just that, it has been a skilled work of many people over many years. They weren't just self-taught people learning to make art, these were craftsmen - just with more primitive tools.
This guy's videos never miss. One of the best channels on RUclips to me at the moment.
I have been studying ancient cave drawings for many years and so pleased to view your video and entirely agree with your view. This must apply to many ancient fragile artifacts and I can still have a sense of respect and awe when I view replicas which I have done over many years of travel exploring ancient history. Thank you, Tom.
Literally teared up at the sight of those paintings. To see such masterful renderings of animals that no longer exist that are literally thousands of years old is... awe inspiring. It's all been done before, and that's a humbling and amazing fact.
It really is amazing. I read that there are also "remains of ancient hearths", smoke stains from torches and a child's footprint along with possibly a dog's paw-print.
It is said that upon its discovery, that Picasso said, "Sine Lascaux, we have invented nothing." Not sure if he actually said it, but the sentiment is easily felt. The representations they made, the way they observed their environment, it is a testament tonthe endurance and wonder of the human spirit!
In a lot of Trading Card Game communities, whenever a super-rare card gets reprinted in a lower rarity, it doesn't diminish the value of the original. Often, the original will go up in price. I feel like the same can be said in this scenario to some degree.
However, you cannot just _buy_ the original cave, since it's probably owned by the government.
It's not about seeing 'the real one' it's about whoever built the second one could be hiding some truths. Like not including some drawing, changing another one, and whatnot. Humans will always be deceptive, but a rock with over 21000 years in existence will only have the truth. You are not allowed to check if it's a duplicate, you are not allowed to compare, and people will not be happy if you bring up this point.
@@ezforsaken'Cause it's a stupid point. They're literally a bunch of cave drawings, what purpose would it serve to censor them?
You could say its a Non Fungible Cave (they both are actually)
@@acey195 It's sadly quite fungi-ble, and bacteria-ble and algae-ble, too. That's the problem!
Imagine if that was a public restroom and all the cave art are the equivalent of bathroom graffiti. And now it's on display as amazing art.
You are probably not thst far off the truth.
Not all art and stories have to have deep social, cultural or religious meaning.
Hunter gatherers spent a lot of time doing nothing, much of that asleep, but still plenty of time to just tell stories and make stuff up.
Netflix of the neolithic.
RUclips of the underground.
It's also kinda insane to think that a person 30k years ago made these paintings and then 30k years later we put an enormous amount of effort into replicating them perfectly. I don't think the original artists could ever imagine that someone in the future would go to such lengths to replicate it.
Future archaeologist will discover both caves, be confused about it and proceed to make replicas of it, so you could visit a replica of a replica of a cave, exit through the replica of the gift shop and then exit for real into the real gift shop :D
This is brilliant !!!
Why would they be confused? We already found ancient and medieval "museums". We know that humans want to keep traces of their ancient past.
Infinite recursion!
@@Ezullof Ackchyually!
Caveception!
Having an exact replica is amazingly cool. I'd rather go to the duplicate to see the crazy feat of engineering and skill.
That outside shot was as interesting as the inside shots
There's a lot of cool stuff to discover in France! Glad you've come here!
great idea.,.we live near Lascaux and the new reproduction is millimetre accurate, even the temperature and humidity is a copy of the original...i feel so much happier visiting a cave copy and knowing i am causing no harm.
It's so interesting to see how a copy can be so accurate.
one of my favorite feelings is standing somewhere that ancient humans may have stood. One time I felt it distinctly was on top of Enchanted Rock in Texas, a spiritual site for native americans. Standing on a massive natural wonder, with nothing but forested hill country on the horizon, the sound of the wind, and a hawk circling above.
It is indeed an enchanting place. Fortunately, it's solid pink granite, so the visitors can't hurt it.
Yes! It's a cool place! It'd make a good video if you're ever in central Texas Tom
@@MikeV8652 except for the paths worn into it by footsteps. I'm surprised there aren't more names scratched into it
I love how the epistemological question of authenticity arose, indeed food for thought. Thank you Tom
The conclusion was fantastic. Thanks for sharing Tom.
there’s a cave like this in sri lanka that i visited. it’s a buddhist temple built inside a cliff face and it honestly incredible. details so much about the religion and a lot of understanding about buddhas life and the whole story of buddhism. if you have the chance to visit i highly recommend!
As a Sri Lankan we’ve got quite a few and I’m scratching my head as to what’s the most likely candidate to being the one you visited. 🤔
Was that Dambulla?
@@paradise_valley i believe it was the dambulla cave temple. it was quite high up and i don’t like stairs so i remember it well 😂
@@stensoft yes that’s the one!
Did you miss the part where Chauvet is 30 000 years old?
No, the buddhist cave in Shri Lanka is not like this.
you can also visit a copy of the Lascaux cave, also scanned. Did it 4 years ago !
Also that spokeperson Tom interviewed is excellent!
i have been in the cave of Niaux, a cave with real authentic drawings in the south of france. it was an amazing, intense experience and one i will never forget
They did an incredible job replicating the shapes, textures, and appearance of the cavern interior!
I am glad this was discovered in France, not many countries would have gone to the effort to replicate the art properly for public viewing.
The project was also partially funded by the European Union :)
@@pierroch1021 I voted to remain
I went to a copy of La Lascaux caves, and they weren't even in France. They went on a sort of world tour at some point. It was completely amazing, I would love to go to one that's in the same area of France.
I love how sort your videos are
Love the concept. Preservation of history is more important than the monetary value gained from tourism. Heck, scan everything since we are able to
Tom is slowly becoming an adventurer
Slowly?
Slowly?
Slowly?
Slowly?
Always has been
What an honor it must have been for the artists tasked with replicating some of the earliest known art in prehistory.
Thank you for showing this. I so wanted to see this, even though it was a replica, when I was traveling there. Public transport & off season foiled my plan.
"If you can replicate something this accurately, how much does it matter that it's not the original?" This question goes right to the heart of Star Trek transporters which people have been arguing over for the past 60 years.
Seems like a good solution to me. I think it'd be wasteful to sacrifice the original cave for just a few years of tourist visits before the artwork disintegrates beyond recognition. With this solution the original can exist and the replica can be enjoyed, for much longer.
I visited this place last summer. The reconstruction isn't exactly the same as going into a real cave (mostly the temperature and how damp these caves often are), but its a crazy good experience.
These kind of replicas are extremely important since there are so many historic artworks or sites that are simply too fragile to withstand sustained attention from the public.
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Thanks Tom! & team.. & all conservators & recreators. I find deeply moving both the original art of such sites and the present-day respect & dedication shown to preserve & study them.
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I have NO problem whatsoever with the recreation. It's GREAT!
"They do not just merely survived, they lived" I like that
Im just so impressed by the art. Its so realistic. Like they arent simple stick figure representations of vague four legged creatures, they have form and shading and incredible details. Its amazing.
The guided visit is made so well that you kind of forget that it is not the original until you exit. I found it really fascinating and kind of emotional. Even if I had visited also other prehistoric caves before.