Comparison: Gretsch Alligator resonator guitars by Jan Ulf Haasler
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- GRETSCH ALLIGATOR resonator guitar
I recently purchased an other Gretsch alligator resonator guitar fitted with a National cone.
My older one that developed an incredible tone (considering this budget priced product range) sounds like an old, really old guitar to me, exactly the tone that I'm looking for.
Compared side by side the new one sounds pretty similar, but - you can guess - newer, may be with a bit less punch in the low end but a bit more precision thanks to the cone, so far as I can describe sounds. The cone inside is a bit more shaking and has that - i call it - platish sound.
First one is the older guitar, second the newer...
#resonator #resonatorguitar #nationalguitar #fingerstyleguitar #michalemesserguitars #bluesguitar #slideguitar #triolian #dobro #bottleneck #gretschalligator #gretschguitars #gretsch
Amazing playing and both guitars sound great in slightly different ways. I prefer the older one but it’s a close call 🙌👏
Hello there and thanks for those questions.
Actually back in the days when I used to play Gretsch Alligators I fittet them with unfortunately pricey Fishman passive resonator pickups (those are called "Donuts" informally). They were a compromise for me of a somewhat accapteble cone sound if you use a good preamp to shape the EQ (those annoying trebles must by cut down....and the low output must be matched).
There are better options out there like the even more expensive but valueable Highlander pickups for resonator guitars (National style especially). But due to the fact that the Alligator is not that expensive and does not have a neck stick, there is no real way to install the Highlander (it is half the price of the Alligator and can not be fixed inside without a neckstick).
The "darker" example of the Alligator was my first one. I learned many resonator guitars related skills concerning what you should and not should do to improve sound, asthetics, cosmetic and so forth on it. As a model painter and painter I tried some thinned oil colour layers (oil based model paint) and just painted the surfaces too make it look "used". I would not do that today any more. It needed time to get it cleaned up later.
Great playing! I really like the rich tone of the older one best.
Love the playing!!! I like the older sounding one personally
Whoa Boy! The feet started moving at 1:02!
🎶🕺💃🕺💃🕺💃🕺💃🕺💃🕺💃🎶
that guitar sounds best there to me
I'm like a dancing cockatoo when he gets going on that gittar!!!
nice playing ❕ nice guitar 🐊❕ nice bedd but u shud probably make it up in the mornin' before u play ur song ❕🎸🐸🍀 😛
Cool
i like the woody tone of the first and the not as bright highs
I was lost until 1:33 then, because i know Gretsch reso covers don't look like that, which guitar was which.... I feel saying the first one was Gretsch standard would have help, unless i missed something. I re read the Description and comments trying to find which is which. Thanks for the vid and comparison, and great playing
Thank you.
Both were Gretsch Alligators, the bit "newer" looking one with an exchanged cone (NRP Hot rod cone) and coverplate (Continental or smth like that) and the first all original a bit "rusty" looking one.
Kind regards.
Jan
@@JanHaasler Thanks guy. Also, i said your playing was great, but a year later here and I have my first National (RAW steel 12 fret) and i just picked up on an important subtlety in your slide work.
What i noticed is at 0:18 seconds when you slide to 7th fret and go back to the 6th for a moment then back to 7th with strong vibrato; THAT is a lick that should be taught (and is im sure). That little, but important, sequence is what i"ve heard in Blind Willie Johnson and so many other Masters. Its quick and subtle but gives so much Human vocal feel to it; Im glad you commented and i watched you again to notice that. You truly are an amazing player. Did you study somewhere? cuz looks like very formal (but still very much 'feel') kinda seamlessness and accuracy. Either way, can tell you play(ed) more than half hour a couple times a week here and there. Beautiful work. Gonna sub and check out your work more. And kind regards to you as well. :)
Danke, sehr interessant, sehr gut 👍
I really like your Idea of putting the input jack through the f-hole. Might do the same. Cheers
Yes, you do not need to drill a hole into the body. The best is to use an ankle-cable that doesn't disturb you playing in this area. I realized that not every f-hole is suitable for every kind input jack though (my metal bodied didn't suit it).
The lower sling stud is also a good spot for a jack.
Fantastic playing my friend!!!
I have the same guitar. I have the same bed from IKEA. Now I have to learn how to play same as you.
Hey there. That is a really funny comment. Thanks.
Please do not play like me. Play like you and we have one difference although we have at least two things in common.
Best regards.
Excellent stuff! I like the sound of both of those guitars, and for the same reasons you listed. Very cool.
Guitar one sounds better. Nice playing. You've put the time on for that
Thank you very much for your pleasant comment.
Best regards
Jan
What a beautiful tone from both! I'm thinking about getting one for myself :) What kind of slide were you using there exactly?
It is all about proper set up with every but especially resonator guitars.
Maple bridge and buscuit sounds more close to oroginal Nationals than the rosewood/ebony capped ones. Gretsch Alligators have hand spun cones similar to Continental ones i guess. I put a narrow ring of felt between the soundwell and the National NRP hot rod cone later what made the guitar even better sounding.
I do not use and play them any more but with proper set up they can be valueable guitars (but no neck stick).
I use just cheap dunlop chrome bottlenecks quite thin...
They are both Alligators - have you swapped cone in one of them???
Hello there and a happy new year. Yes, the "newer" looking model has a NRP hot rod cone installed (I swapped the cones there by myself), you are right. Kind regards. Jan
What is that input jack looking thing in the lower open hole of the lower f-hole?
That is an input for a pickup I installed on each guitar (a fishman resonator cone pockup/transducer which worked well enough with a high quality EQ/preamp like the L.R. Baggs Para Acpustic DI back then).
I prefer - if i play my Michael Messer Blues 28 rwsonator guitar plugfed in - a Highlander IP 1x active piezo pickup for National kind odmf resophonic guitars anyways.
Best regards.
Jan
This is spicy. Love it
Cool. Thank you.
@@JanHaasler no problem! Keep playing great stuff
Hello, may I please ask you, did you make any upgrades on the guitar? Because I bought the same guitar and when I play slide, there is a lot of buzzing. It doesn't happen when I play fingerpicking or strumming, it actually sounds awesome that way. The buzzing doesn't happen on my old acoustic, so i don't think it is caused by bad technique. Would you please give me any advise? I would be gratefull thanks.
Hello and thank you.
I is not easy to answer your question without meeting and checking the issue out.
The newer looking model with an exchanged cover plate has an exchanged NRP Hot rod cone and slightly higher Action as far as I remember.
A key can be the right string gauge. On resonators (and even other steel string acoustics back then) I use(d) 013 to 056 steel strings and even exchange the high/melody string (e) with a 016 string.
That helpes my slide playing a bit with a fatter tone and overall avoiding buzzes as with too light strings. But that is just me. I tested that out and I kept doing it since then.
If it is not your technique also the Action can ve a factor. I do not have a very high action on resonators but too low set up strings may cause buzzes even when normally fretted/played. I do not know.
Hope that helps to figure out smth at least.
Best regards
Jan
That reach! At @1:14
Super playing. I actually prefer the sound of the second one(with the National cone). Did the new cover plate come with it or did you have to buy it separately?
It came with the guitar. I purchased it used. Later I fitted the guitar with a felt between the sound well and the cone that really imrpved the tone again.
Now adays I'm selling the guitar. I don't need more than two guitars these days...
Hi astrostrich, unfurtunately both guitars are not available from me any more. I'm sorry. You may find other Alligators and adjust them to your purposes...
Y'all are crazy thinking guitar 1 sounds better. There's nothing on the planet that sounds as good as that National cone.
Got that Gretch... Any idea how to keep it in tune?
The newer guitar indeed sounds as new as it looks, but you can hear the family ties to the older instrument. Very nice to know that despite being a budget instrument, the make is good enough for it to improve with age (rather than wear out).
Just how old is the older guitar?
Thanks for commenting here.
Actually the older gretsch has been built in 2012 and the newer one in 2014. The 2012 model was played very much by me for every practise and concert for up to 4 years. At a later point the cone has been cracked by some one by accident so that i needed to reinstall it (still everything original).
The 2014 sounds new due to a new NRP replacement cone a hot rod...
I know very little about guitars, much more about violins - and they sound new for more than a few years, and will go back to sounding newish if you don't play them long enough (and they're not already 80y old or so). The 2014 also looks (looked? :)) new while the 2012 had the patina and unevenness that come with maturity.
Acutally the "older" one was built in 2012 and the newer one in 2014. I just did some careful paint cosmetic to the first one next to the fact, that it was played a lot more and really intense in and outside so the wood could grain a bit more i guess...
Please send help! I can't decide between the G9241 Alligator and the G9220 Bobtail!
Hello there,
I had both of them. I am more into the National style resonator guitars' sound (single cone buscuit bridge models like Triolian, El Trovador etc.).
I wont and could not afford those so i purchased a good sounding Alligator back in 2013 and its sound developed a lot while having it as my main guitar for about 4 years. I now exclusively play Michael Messer guitars as i find themti be the best available budget priced National style resonator guitars.
The Bobtail has the Spider bridge and Dobro sound (different cone concept) and is the Gretsch's rendition to their 1930s Dobro type resonators. I ordered one online and gave it back. I would had to adjust too many things by myself and did not want to spend the money. You should pick one in a store and choose a good model if possible.
It has the fishman spider bridge pickup wich many Dobro players go for i think because you can ad the Fishman Aura pedals perfectly with them (Dobro "images" like the Jerry Douglas pedal). Great amplified sound. I did not go that route though.
I think trying, experimenting is the thing you should do.
I hope that helps.
great playing !
I can hear the tonal difference. Both are terrific, as is your playing! What tuning are you using?
Thanks a lot. I just was noodling around. I use open G tuning (as I do most of the time besides standard tuning). It's so similar to the standard tuning and interestind voices can be played with it.
Excellent video, thank you. You make reference to that action height in your reply. I am very confused on what a good height would be for LEARNING the slide, while still being able to finger play? Can you (anyone) please give me some guidance?
In the end it depends on you. I prefer lower actions for slide and fretting but that means lack of tone one the other hand. So my newer instrument has a bit more higher action to get a good ringing tone and a good playability for slide and fretting. And to have the opportunity to fret behingd the slide a bit higher action is better too. It's not easy to tell...
Jan - Nice tones - Sounds great - Did you replace the cone on the first one or just the biscuit ? Also who would sell the upgrade parts - Thanks
Hello Tropical Notary: The first resonator guitar is all original (the cone was crashed by accident but I could fix it, even the bridge). The second resonator guitar has a cone replacement (National single cone, can be purchased via the internet at a big german store p.e. thomann). The bridge is a non original replacement (unknown brand, i ordered it via a swiss shop). The National brand cones come with a bridge and a buscuit so you can adjust it for your preferences. Thanks and Keep on playing!!!
Thank you for the reply - what gauge strings are you using on the original stock Alligator - - also do you know if when you buy a new biscuit bridge if the grooves for the strings are usually pre cut or do you need to cut the grooves yourself from a flat top of the biscuit - Thanks again
I'm using heavy strings 016 - 056 for a good slide tone (and a shaking cone). There's no problem with that (some players fear neck problems due to higher tension, but there is a truss rod...). Usually if you buy a new biscuit and bridge you have to cut the grooves by yourself. But don't overdo it (not to deep, just slightly that the strings are "fixed").
Great playing and feel. Wondering if u got time to have one of Our great jams like in the past.
I know you haha ;) nice painting in the profile. I hope I can manage something. Let's use the conventional mobile communicators then! Thanks
Great video and even greater playing. I've been learning slide now for about 3 months. I also have the alligator and have been wondering what an NRP cone would sound like, I've been looking at the hot rod. Which one do you prefer out of the two?
Hey there, thank you. I just managed to purchase a hot rod cone i guess (made by National). So I just can tell you about the gretsch cone's difference. But I guess any National cone is worth the upgrade unless you are satisfied with the sound YOUR Alligator produces... Keep on playing!
+Jan Haasler Thanks for the reply Jan. I'm not 100% with it to be honest, so think I might take the plunge at some point.
So this means national cones fit the Gretsch resonator? Or was any modification necessary? Based on this sample I felt that the national cone sounded richer, however you are right there is a really old time feel to the first one. I'd consider upgrading but I want to invest in my Honey Dipper and that being metal might complicate the change if there are modifications needed.
OH and goes without saying: very good playing!!
The upgrade is pretty simple. Just change the cone. May be the string hight has to be adjustet to your preferation. Some cones are a bit higher/lower. Just use your old biscuit and fix it on top of the new cone, that's it. Thanks and good playing too by you.
What tuning are you using?
Hello, I play in open G here, both guitars D G D G B d. Kind regards. Jan
@@JanHaasler I use open gmod self mostly with a capo doing you know Keith Richards stuff. Works great. Telecaster God I wish I had a 54 Goldtop
THEY SOUND AS GOOD AS A 3000.00 NATIONAL IN MY OPINION
Thanks. It is all about proper set up. But still there is a certain tone i realize no adays that gives the Gretsch resonators a distinctive tone. My Michael Messer guitars sound ways more closer to Nationals to me.
You are great,and i do love youre perfomance,i listened it around20 times......i've got a new alligator ,but if i use it with slide/bottleneck style it doesnt sounds so clean as youre...maybe i should raise action, what's youre action on the alligator???thank you very much
Actually - this is intersting - I don't prefer high actions on resonators because I do finger a lot. A good compromise helps, the strings should'nt be too deep (the slide needs to sing especially in the case of behind the slide fretting) but all in all it depends on your playing techniques. There is no really "right" or "wrong".
My older Alligator has a real deep string adjustment and plays great, you just need to know to handle the gear ou use. May be an other cone could help to get a clearer sound and - of course - thick strings. I use 016 to 056 gauge strings. Hop that helps.
Biscuit bridge or spider?
Those Alligator models are Biskuit cone resonators.
Best regards.
Jan
Do you remember what strings you used with this guitar?
RJV B
Hi there
I used regular "Dobro" strings by Martin. 016 to 056 nickel strings.
Best regards
Hey man what song are playing at the end?
Hey there. It is part of one of my original tunes called "Ismael's words". Thank you very much!
It has that nice rusty dobro sound.
NOW THERE IS AN ELECTRIC BOBCAT?? I WOULD LIKE TO SEE AN ELECTRIC WOOD MODEL???WHY NOT
Hello there. Do you mean testing one of the Bobtail models?
I did it in a shop and at home once.
Besides the fact that they have the nashville pickup bridge to be used with the fishman aura pedal (natural dobro simulation) i was not that impressed. I do not want to carry a bunch of stuff to gigs etc.
Now adays i am totally satisfied with my (Highlander equipped) Michael Messer Blues guitars. The developed a real vintage National sound over the years.
They do the best job for my acousticly and electrified. I adjusted them by myself for my playing demands. The set up by Dave King is highest quality though.