I’m a newbie (actually, I was a serious lifter 25 years ago). It feels like every rep is a forced rep. Girls and boys, keep yourself healthy as you age.
I can't help but go to failure every set. It's in my nature. But I never break form and I do higher reps (8 to 20 range) and lower volume (2-3 sets per body part max) to balance out going to failure. It's working so far and I'm 55 years old and resistance training is actually a supplement to my surfing. Put on 10 lb of muscle in the last 3 years. Which at my age, and already being well trained, is quite a lot.
@@BrysonPrice Yeah, for us, it's just best to manipulate reps and volume to compensate. Because we know damn well we'll never stop going to failure every time ;)
@@MrJcologne It's true. 148 to 162. I dropped that down to 10 total to be conservative. I started lifting when I was 15. I went from 125 to 165 in three years. I was way underweight to begin with obviously, and i grew another half an inch as well. Puberty newbie gains are the best! Continued to lift for another 10 years but my body refuses to get bigger. I have a low genetic limit for mass. I switched to mountain biking to supplement my surfing. Fast forward 25 years. I've gotten really lean. I surf every day for a couple of hours. I'd been surfing for 30 year at that point. I'm at 148 pounds of muscle. Light and muscular. So all I do is surf. But I'd become water strong but land weak. So I can charge overhead waves for hours no problem, but couldn't do a single pullup, only about 15 pushups and my planking was pathetic. This is common with older surfers. On land we can be pretty weak, but really fit in the water. So I got a pullup bar, a 30 pound weight vest and a set of dumbells. I started out with band assisted pullups, bodyweight pushups, beginner weight dumbbells and stair climbing at the beach. Now I'm doing; 1. Strict 30 pound weight vest pushups for 25 reps 2. 10 minute saw planks 3. Dead hang, ecentric focused pull-ups for 10 reps 4. Strict bent, rear delt lateral raises for 20 reps with 25 pound dumbbells 5, Strict ecentric focused dumbbells curls with 25 pounds,15 reps. 5. Stair sprints with a 30 pound vest Just a few pounds shy of my weight at age 20. So I'm about at my max. So mission accomplished. I'm strong as hell now (compared to where I was) and feel amazing. So there's no way I'm going to break my hip in the bathtub :)
Most experienced and knowledgeable bodybuilders know that what they are saying here is wrong. For any newbies that are believing this, please do more research by looking at what other experts have to say. Yes, there are exceptions to every general rule,but if your goal is muscle building, coming close to failure or to failure (and in some cases forced reps) is generally often an excellent way to achieve maximum hypertrophy for most people. Of course, when you do it, how often, and who should and shouldn't will vary and depend on different factors. And while we are at it, please do not believe that cardio exercise is bad for losing weight. Crazy !! And please be skeptical about what they are recommending for the amount of times per week to work a body part and number of sets to get maximum hypertrophy. Remember that most very knowledgeable and credible experts that are up to date with the latest widely accepted data do not agree with a number of views these guys have. Look up videos from other experts before you believe what they are suggesting.
Most of the research suggests that being 2 reps from failure leads to the same level of hypertrophy while being less taxing, the only problem is that beginners have a hard time figuring out how close to failure they are, and usually tend to not come even close to failure.
Disagree here a little bit, training to failure under the right circumstances is great, in my experience. Besides that studies showed doing forced reps increase testosterone! And that's extremely important as an natural.
These guys are correct unless on tons of gear which olympions like dorian ect on tons of gear steroids growth insulin ect catabolism doesn't exist in guys on tons of drugs but does exist with average guys not on gear
Maybe a stupid question. I understand we are talking about forced reps here. But does this same logic apply to all or most of the training past failure principles?
I think something that’s far superior to forced reps is pushing past what would have normally been your failure point by stopping before failure, pausing briefly, 10-15 seconds maximum and then pushing for more reps, good reps, even just 1-2 more, utilizing 2-3 rest pauses where you get just 1-2 more good reps you can get volume and intensity you would never get from a set to failure. You can even personalize it further by using a more difficult rep style to begin with and as you go through your rest pauses use easier rep styles to help you get more reps out with good form. I find that helps me get more intensity from my workouts without ever truly reaching the type of failure where form breaks down but still pushing past what my failure point would have been had I just done a single standard set to failure.
@@jakobalgeblad6732 some exercises I do indeed find that to be the most effective way to utilize the rest pause, cable flys and side lateral raises jump to mind
@TheRuffington Here's the science: journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/2019/07001/Strength_and_Muscular_Adaptations_After_6_Weeks_of.13.aspx .Rest pause wins hands down. Also read the whole text: rest pause was more effective with all muscles but because of the small size of the study, results were only statistically significant for the quadriceps. But you really can see the trend.
@TheRuffington I would say even beyond that study that was posted which is interesting, the science has to do with progressive overload. Progressive overload is THE most consistent thing that muscle science time and again shows leads to consistent gains, so our challenge is to find ways to produce that and rest pauses produce it in spades and give you sooooo many options and so much variety in how you push yourself for progressive overload, it’s just unbeatable when it comes to variety and how you can combine different intensity techniques to produce your overload… I really can’t recommend it enough, it’s fun and challenging and never gets boring cause you can switch it up so much and experiment with different ways of using rest pauses. There are literally hundreds of ways you could do it, it just never gets old and that’s HUGE
What about forced reps on accessory lifts like curls? I started cheating single arm preacher curls with the dumbbell by using my other arm to help get the weight up squeezing at the top and controlling the negative down slowly. I can recover from it quickly and I only do it on my last set.
Just started your MAPS Aesthetic program and some of the rep ranges for compound lifts are 3-6 so I've been doing around 4-5 and last rep is to failure , would u recommend I just do 3 and leave some in the tank
I do weighted chin ups and weighted dips, and I always go to the last rep or maybe 1 shy of failure on every set. Is that too much? I can do do close to the same amount of reps after a 2 minute rest in my next set. Not too sore and I can usually progress in weight the next workout.
What about for amrap pull-ups? I have them at least once a week 3xamrap. First two sets I either pick a number one short of struggling or do as many as I can. But for the last set sometimes I go for the forced assisted
Going to failure DOES build more muscles and forced reps even better. But look...u HAVE to b in a caloric surplus. These guys r good but they r definitely wrong this time. And Arnold...watch videos of him training. He took a lot of sets not just past failure but beyond. Drop sets and all that other hardcore sh#t. I mean he was under Joe Weider and he used the Weider training principles to a T. Also watch just few top notch bodybuilders enhanced and not. They will b taking some if not ALL sets to failure. And they all look bad ass.
Yeah, go tell Dorian Yates (6 X Mr. O) Ronnie Coleman (8 X Mr. O) or even the current back to back Classic Physique Champ Chris Bumstead that forced reps were/are killing their gains lol! And these are the most elite of the 1% of the 1% genetically, work ethic wise and on highest quality gear who have preached this principle. Don’t confuse training for health vs training to be the greatest BB to ever live people. The price to accomplish one is not the same as the other. The irony is that the majority of people who listen to podcasts like MP aren’t wanting to look healthy, which is the irony, they are looking to look like the elite and to do that requires a much higher price. But hey you can listen to the people who write about climbing the mountain or to those who have actually climbed it. 🤷🏻♂️
Just because the elite 1 percent do something it doesn't mean it's right they might be getting amazing gains right now and smoking the completion but is that healthy? Is that good for long term results? Did they start out and always go to absolute failure? No they just used certain methods to gain a competitive edge did it work? maybe is it healthy for you today or future gains probably not.
@Steel all three of the bodybuilders I mentioned were/are on drugs, so what? Where did the MP guys say that the principle of forced reps only apply to naturals? Nowhere!
@Solomon LOL! Did you just bring up the question of being “healthy” in regards to bodybuilders? Are you trying to be funny here? And to answer your question correctly on if it gave them a competitive edge, the answer isn’t maybe, the answer is yes! Dorian and Ronnie are the most decorated mass monsters and CBum is becoming the greatest Classic Physique champion of all time. Being healthy means you have 15% BF and look better than the average guy on the street. Most people are training to look elite and to look elite you have to go much further than the average Joe and that’s just a fact. Looking like a Greek God requires much more than training 3 times a week and leaving reps in the tank. Go ask Adam if it was healthy for him to go pro? And then ask him if he likes looking the way he does now or when he was competing. Don’t ever confuse being healthy with looking elite, those are two different things.
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I’m a newbie (actually, I was a serious lifter 25 years ago). It feels like every rep is a forced rep. Girls and boys, keep yourself healthy as you age.
I needed to hear this. I’ve got to put my ego away and train for results. Not max numbers for the set.
At this point my whole life is a lie😭😭😭
🤣🤣🤣
All 3 lads looking jacked 💪🏻
I can't help but go to failure every set. It's in my nature. But I never break form and I do higher reps (8 to 20 range) and lower volume (2-3 sets per body part max) to balance out going to failure. It's working so far and I'm 55 years old and resistance training is actually a supplement to my surfing. Put on 10 lb of muscle in the last 3 years. Which at my age, and already being well trained, is quite a lot.
In your dreams you put on 10 pounds of muscle at age 55
@clay I struggle with the same thing also..if I don’t go to failure, I don’t ‘feel’ like Im not getting a good workout
@@BrysonPrice Yeah, for us, it's just best to manipulate reps and volume to compensate. Because we know damn well we'll never stop going to failure every time ;)
@@MrJcologne It's true. 148 to 162. I dropped that down to 10 total to be conservative. I started lifting when I was 15. I went from 125 to 165 in three years. I was way underweight to begin with obviously, and i grew another half an inch as well. Puberty newbie gains are the best!
Continued to lift for another 10 years but my body refuses to get bigger. I have a low genetic limit for mass. I switched to mountain biking to supplement my surfing.
Fast forward 25 years. I've gotten really lean. I surf every day for a couple of hours. I'd been surfing for 30 year at that point. I'm at 148 pounds of muscle. Light and muscular. So all I do is surf.
But I'd become water strong but land weak. So I can charge overhead waves for hours no problem, but couldn't do a single pullup, only about 15 pushups and my planking was pathetic. This is common with older surfers. On land we can be pretty weak, but really fit in the water.
So I got a pullup bar, a 30 pound weight vest and a set of dumbells.
I started out with band assisted pullups, bodyweight pushups, beginner weight dumbbells and stair climbing at the beach.
Now I'm doing;
1. Strict 30 pound weight vest pushups for 25 reps
2. 10 minute saw planks
3. Dead hang, ecentric focused pull-ups for 10 reps
4. Strict bent, rear delt lateral raises for 20 reps with 25 pound dumbbells
5, Strict ecentric focused dumbbells curls with 25 pounds,15 reps.
5. Stair sprints with a 30 pound vest
Just a few pounds shy of my weight at age 20. So I'm about at my max.
So mission accomplished. I'm strong as hell now (compared to where I was) and feel amazing. So there's no way I'm going to break my hip in the bathtub :)
@@MrJcologne he got newbe gains and gaining 10 pounds of muscle in 3 years is common if they started lifting again or just started to begin with
It makes sense! Your recovery has to be pretty freakin' dialed in for that stuff to work. Most people don't just have that ability.
I take creatine
No. Train less rest more.
Dorian Yates just checked out.
Most experienced and knowledgeable bodybuilders know that what they are saying here is wrong. For any newbies that are believing this, please do more research by looking at what other experts have to say. Yes, there are exceptions to every general rule,but if your goal is muscle building, coming close to failure or to failure (and in some cases forced reps) is generally often an excellent way to achieve maximum hypertrophy for most people. Of course, when you do it, how often, and who should and shouldn't will vary and depend on different factors.
And while we are at it, please do not believe that cardio exercise is bad for losing weight. Crazy !! And please be skeptical about what they are recommending for the amount of times per week to work a body part and number of sets to get maximum hypertrophy. Remember that most very knowledgeable and credible experts that are up to date with the latest widely accepted data do not agree with a number of views these guys have. Look up videos from other experts before you believe what they are suggesting.
Doesn’t research show that mechanical tension is the best way to gain strength and size?
But Greg Doucette says going to failure is good for muscle growth
Most of the research suggests that being 2 reps from failure leads to the same level of hypertrophy while being less taxing, the only problem is that beginners have a hard time figuring out how close to failure they are, and usually tend to not come even close to failure.
@@Gengh13 That is why I just go to failure in the last set of my exercises, haha.
@@explorerOfToday there is nothing wrong with that approach.
@@Gengh13 also studies showed doing forced reps increase testosterone..
Greg also says he hates cocaine hmmmmmmmmmm
Disagree here a little bit, training to failure under the right circumstances is great, in my experience. Besides that studies showed doing forced reps increase testosterone! And that's extremely important as an natural.
Why does my man sound like Rosenberg from HOT97? Love the podcast guys!!
These guys are correct unless on tons of gear which olympions like dorian ect on tons of gear steroids growth insulin ect catabolism doesn't exist in guys on tons of drugs but does exist with average guys not on gear
Maybe a stupid question.
I understand we are talking about forced reps here. But does this same logic apply to all or most of the training past failure principles?
I don't do forced - I just throw in some drops sets on last last set sometimes. I'm older so I just find it keeps me clear of injuries.
Drop sets, rest/pause, those are still forms of forced reps, going passed failure.
How do I get coached by this guys ?
I think something that’s far superior to forced reps is pushing past what would have normally been your failure point by stopping before failure, pausing briefly, 10-15 seconds maximum and then pushing for more reps, good reps, even just 1-2 more, utilizing 2-3 rest pauses where you get just 1-2 more good reps you can get volume and intensity you would never get from a set to failure. You can even personalize it further by using a more difficult rep style to begin with and as you go through your rest pauses use easier rep styles to help you get more reps out with good form. I find that helps me get more intensity from my workouts without ever truly reaching the type of failure where form breaks down but still pushing past what my failure point would have been had I just done a single standard set to failure.
Also can do drop sets in this way, resting 10 sec while lowering weight to get more quality reps and not going to form failure
@@jakobalgeblad6732 some exercises I do indeed find that to be the most effective way to utilize the rest pause, cable flys and side lateral raises jump to mind
@TheRuffington Here's the science: journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/2019/07001/Strength_and_Muscular_Adaptations_After_6_Weeks_of.13.aspx .Rest pause wins hands down. Also read the whole text: rest pause was more effective with all muscles but because of the small size of the study, results were only statistically significant for the quadriceps. But you really can see the trend.
@TheRuffington I would say even beyond that study that was posted which is interesting, the science has to do with progressive overload. Progressive overload is THE most consistent thing that muscle science time and again shows leads to consistent gains, so our challenge is to find ways to produce that and rest pauses produce it in spades and give you sooooo many options and so much variety in how you push yourself for progressive overload, it’s just unbeatable when it comes to variety and how you can combine different intensity techniques to produce your overload… I really can’t recommend it enough, it’s fun and challenging and never gets boring cause you can switch it up so much and experiment with different ways of using rest pauses. There are literally hundreds of ways you could do it, it just never gets old and that’s HUGE
What about forced reps on accessory lifts like curls? I started cheating single arm preacher curls with the dumbbell by using my other arm to help get the weight up squeezing at the top and controlling the negative down slowly. I can recover from it quickly and I only do it on my last set.
I do the exact same on curls 👍
Great advice! I agree 100%!!!
👍
Just started your MAPS Aesthetic program and some of the rep ranges for compound lifts are 3-6 so I've been doing around 4-5 and last rep is to failure , would u recommend I just do 3 and leave some in the tank
I do weighted chin ups and weighted dips, and I always go to the last rep or maybe 1 shy of failure on every set.
Is that too much? I can do do close to the same amount of reps after a 2 minute rest in my next set. Not too sore and I can usually progress in weight the next workout.
Sorry guys, I’m not the type of man that leaves gas in the tank.
If you're a newbie, forced reps is not for you. If you been working out for a couple years, it is a benefit.
Mike Mentzer and Dorian Yates would strongly disagree with this video lol
Forced Reps are dangerous on Tendons, Joints, and Ligaments.
NEVER USE more than once a month on one exercise.
Sounds like bs
What about for amrap pull-ups? I have them at least once a week 3xamrap. First two sets I either pick a number one short of struggling or do as many as I can. But for the last set sometimes I go for the forced assisted
Same. Especially if it is your arms that tire out I think it is fine on this type of exercise
I'm guessing they're talking about compound lifts, instead of training the accessories. Due to the intesinty of a Bench Press compared to a Pull up
Sal straight up looking like one of julius caesars goons
Not if you get enough recovery
arnold was training to failure..
Failure must be achieved by yourself .. forced reps is a waste of time
But none of you guys are that big. Maybe you're doing it wrong with all this multi-set RPE bullshit.
They all bigger than you
Yes it' s funny, guys who are said to train wrongly seem to be biggest.
@@jyrkiwigelius4297 lots of gearrrr
@@enrapturedgoose5317do u really think gear is the only reason Dorian was that big. Are u that dense
Going to failure DOES build more muscles and forced reps even better. But look...u HAVE to b in a caloric surplus. These guys r good but they r definitely wrong this time. And Arnold...watch videos of him training. He took a lot of sets not just past failure but beyond. Drop sets and all that other hardcore sh#t. I mean he was under Joe Weider and he used the Weider training principles to a T. Also watch just few top notch bodybuilders enhanced and not. They will b taking some if not ALL sets to failure. And they all look bad ass.
Yeah, go tell Dorian Yates (6 X Mr. O) Ronnie Coleman (8 X Mr. O) or even the current back to back Classic Physique Champ Chris Bumstead that forced reps were/are killing their gains lol! And these are the most elite of the 1% of the 1% genetically, work ethic wise and on highest quality gear who have preached this principle. Don’t confuse training for health vs training to be the greatest BB to ever live people. The price to accomplish one is not the same as the other. The irony is that the majority of people who listen to podcasts like MP aren’t wanting to look healthy, which is the irony, they are looking to look like the elite and to do that requires a much higher price. But hey you can listen to the people who write about climbing the mountain or to those who have actually climbed it. 🤷🏻♂️
They both were on a lot of drugs, not the same as being natural.
Just because the elite 1 percent do something it doesn't mean it's right they might be getting amazing gains right now and smoking the completion but is that healthy? Is that good for long term results? Did they start out and always go to absolute failure? No they just used certain methods to gain a competitive edge did it work? maybe is it healthy for you today or future gains probably not.
@Steel all three of the bodybuilders I mentioned were/are on drugs, so what? Where did the MP guys say that the principle of forced reps only apply to naturals? Nowhere!
@Solomon LOL! Did you just bring up the question of being “healthy” in regards to bodybuilders? Are you trying to be funny here? And to answer your question correctly on if it gave them a competitive edge, the answer isn’t maybe, the answer is yes! Dorian and Ronnie are the most decorated mass monsters and CBum is becoming the greatest Classic Physique champion of all time. Being healthy means you have 15% BF and look better than the average guy on the street. Most people are training to look elite and to look elite you have to go much further than the average Joe and that’s just a fact. Looking like a Greek God requires much more than training 3 times a week and leaving reps in the tank. Go ask Adam if it was healthy for him to go pro? And then ask him if he likes looking the way he does now or when he was competing. Don’t ever confuse being healthy with looking elite, those are two different things.
@gregdoucette