I love Barristan the Bold. His departure from the Kingsguard was an epic moment for sure. But for me nothing tops the Kingbreaker fight where he seizes Hizdahr and the pit fighter threatens to eat his heart, and Barristan basically says knuck if you buck and responds "then come". Then immediately proceeds to kill the pit fighter w/relative ease, removing his entrails and stabbing him in the heart. That's one of my all time favorite chapters in ASOIAF because of that moment. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Ser Barristan.
Alot of pressure is put on Sansa that isn't put on others who ALSO do unforgivable things. Jamie, as an adult pushes a 8 year old out a window and hes ppls favs lol
When Arya changes, she goes from wild and fiesty to honed and straight up dangerous, Jon starts by having potential with a sword to being a renowned swordsman and a Lord Commander, bran goes from being a little boy curious about everything in the world and is now exploring the higher powers, rob goes from a lord in training to a king, Rickon is hyper little northman and goes presumably feral on Skagos, like the rest of the Stark children had the original character traits amplified, sharpened, and developed in the same direction they were already headed in. Sansas mistakes make her character development unique in that she has to pretty much do a 180 in order to survive. She has to let go of the fairy tales, the belief in the best in people, and her softness and we have seen her let it go bit by bit. Sansa doing naive shit, like all children do, is how we mark her character development. Like none of the other Stark kids are in the constant danger that Sansa has been in. Like none of them but Arya that single time with the direwolves have had to stand in front of Joffery or Cersei who could easily kill or hurt her and been made to defend themselves like that.
@@thedornishmanswife3712 Sansa story is the most human. She makes mistakes, she learns and she grows. So far, she's had no magical skills to aid her. No wolf dreams, no direwolf, no red priests, no warging. Instead she's being groomed to strategize her way out of situations.
She becomes one of my favorites as the books progress. I think Lady dying meant the symbolic death of her naive self, the PIECES side of the game of thrones, to give way for gradual growth into a PLAYER in the great game. She's going to become a sought of Lady Orlena for the Starks. They sure as hell need one or they won't stand a chance. I love her journey because she keeps growing and she keeps learning. I love where George is taking her. I believe by the end of the books her arc will be one of the most fascinating in the story. She will continue to be a divisive character to the end. That's why she's interesting and compelling. I don't understand why many readers can be forgiving of characters like the Hound, Jaime, Tyrion, Orlena, Tywin (grown adults who've done more unforgivable things ), but hate Sansa so intensely, for acting like a naive sheltered child who didn't know any better. What irritated me about show Sansa in the last season, was that the writers tried to sell the audience on her new found intelligence, by reducing all other characters into bumbling fools in her presence. Tyrion and Baelish especially were butchered to make Sansa seem to be the smartest character. As for the books, if anyone is to blame for who Sansa was first is Catelyn, then Ned's naivety. Sansa was a Mama's girl. Catelyn had the biggest influence on how Sansa was raised. Ned was puzzled as to what to do with her, because he wasn't as close to her as he was with his other children. Finally, I believe Sansa will be calling the shots in Winterfell in the end. Either as regent to one of her brothers or as Lord or Queen of the North. If her Alayne chapters hint anything about her future, it's that she will be the one to rebuild Winterfell.
Half a world away in Wales there is a lady(me)So sad 😥and then boom the LADY GRAY and her handmaid's have brought me joy.Sending soo much love to you guys.
Tywin being obbessed with making people fear House Lannister and then people turning from House Lannister after his death because they don't fear a ghost (if I remember in Cersei's POV people were making fun of how he died on the privy) thus helping contribute to its downfall is very ironic and a little sad (but deserving)
I heard a theory, I think it was Talking thrones. He said Drogon may have taken Dany over to Meereen for the Red Priests to resurrect her. So Dany may not be dead!!
Sansa isn't responsible for Mycah. - The Hound was still absent at the time of the 'trial', as he was still out searching. - The Hound only returned with Mycah's body just after Ned killed Lady and made arrangements for her body to be sent North. - This means that the Hound either killed Mycah before the 'trial' took place, or after without him having any awareness of said 'trial' taking place! My guess is that the murder took place before. What's more when the Hound spoke to Ned, he didn't even know Arya had been found. Ned said it himself. The only people responsible are Cersei and the Hound. edit: honestly what made me roll my eyes was you gushing over the hound. like y'all actually realize that grown man is the one at fault for mycah, not that child you blame?
another example of the Starks being responsible compared to the other houses under Ned's leadership. even if they get the sentence wrong they have a rule of law that can protect people who are not highborn.
honestly while i disagree with the redemption thing for the sake of the arguement if sansa does need to redeem herself - then honestly wouldn't her being the one to kill LF be enough? the person who started all this shit (ie killing jon arryn and setting in motion the stark lannister conflict) sansa was unable to win her father mercy her getting him justice is very significant.
I thought Lysa killed him? He was planning to have his son fostered at Dragonstone, so she killed him. Then she ran back to the Eyrie as King Robert was planning to send her son to Casterly Rock. Pycelle made sure he died because Cersei was aware that Jon Aryn knew about her children.
Sansa goes through so much in a short timespan. if given the opportunity to be free i expect she will find a garrison of loyal troops and fight for the rest of her life in service of anything that puts a hole in the ambitions of people like Joffrey, Cersei, Littlefinger or even the "women" who encouraged her naive childish self to believe her house was lesser than anyone else's.....if given the opportunity of course
@@vanessaamesty6739 Ned needed safety and mentorship. I believe Sansa will find friends in the Vale and maybe already has. Seems like those houses are similar to the Starks in that they have no desire to rule outside of their realm. Hopefully she can retain some power and have a loyal retainer by her side. It is my view that if the Hound is alive he will seek her out to protect her until she sits her regular seat. also i do think she will have an interesting influence over Tyrion should they meet again....she brought out that admirable ability he has of belittling the most powerful forces around him (Joffrey) even if it cost him. loved that pairing of characters.
@@tonysled6796 Lothor Brune is protecting her and I think he will protect her from Baelish and Harry the heir. I like him as a friend to Sansa. Like you said she needs good people arround her The Hound and Tyrion as well, very courious on how that would turn out.
@@vanessaamesty6739 Seems like she formed a connection with them that was not just one sided. Sure out of necessity but they both exposed themselves to harm from the throne by protecting her at different key moments and she rejects them both as well. Sansa in Kings landing is almost a separate character. I hope she isnt going to ignore help and I hope she reveals her identity to someone because aside from being in the room with her Littlefinger poses less of a threat than her wasting time believing that he does....
A theory I heard is that the tapestries could be use to disprove Jeffrey/Tommens legitimacy, similar to how the book of the noble houses helped Ned realise they weren't Baratheons. If you point out that every other Baratheon lord looked similar, Cersei's children look like the odd ones out.
Ned died in place of sansa, he killed her wolf she indirectly helps gets him killed, sansa will live, there’s a chapter where Jamie says he sees sansa marrying a smith, gendry, Robert said I have a son, you have a daughter, let’s unite our houses, that would be the true unification of their families
Sansa has passed that time where she will be married off. I think if she survives she will die before someone tells her who to be with. And technically she is still married to Tyrion.....both Jamie and Robert famously don't get to have what they want (Lyanna and Cersei) and both subsequently have partners that do not stay with them. Sansa will need loyalty going forward and respect.
The hunting tapestries probably have pictures of Barathians with their dark hair and blue eyes, which proves Joff isn't Bobby B's. Little Finger wants the tapestries because hanging in the Vale on public display, owned by Nestor Royce, who knew Bobby B, they show the Vale that Tommen, is not Bobby B's, which delegitimizes Cersie's rule.
I wonder if any of jofferys decisions were pushed by Sansa addressing him as my prince instead of my king when she was asking for mercy for Ned, especially right asking why Ned had said he wasn't the king, now Sansa low-key saying it too right to his face. It would piss him off.
this wass fun. rrandom thoughts: lannisters full of themselves: yes! but i think if tywin had been there, then despite his also being full of himself they wouldn't have done that rot about "housee barratheon and lannister" and whatnot. also ned wouldn't have died, b/c tywin, unlike cersei, would have no difficulty countermanding jofffo. (cersei herself had no trouble countermanding tommen.) appearances would have been respected. also i'm sure ser barristan would not have been forced into retirement. he's definitely capable of defending joffrey; he defended dany w/ a *stick* against a chap w/ a *sword*. slynt stynks; we had fun listening to stannis putting him down a peg on BOOK CLUB recently. it was fun hearing ser barry tell offf joff. it's nice that sansa is thinking of arya now. sansa does show courage in this chapter; so i have to give her that.
Awww, Gray 😂 Stop hating on Sansa.. she def grows on ya.. for me, anyways. She’s so innocent at this point, and she still trusts people.. can’t help but feel a little sorry for her.. she thinks she’s doing exactly what a well-bred lady of the day is expect (or ‘trained’) to do.. and she’s left on her to figure things. She was truly sheltered from the real world. BUT, in her defense, she really acted/did what she thought was ‘expected’ vs. what was right and true. Love you and this so much! TY 🙏🏼
I didnt notice them but upon my next rewatch I'll keep an eye out for those other clues about the legitimacy of the line. Wow. This was an interesting possible clue that i never thought about.
@@sillygirlkc well I don't think you getting it in the mane series you see what it means in fire and blood by description of other baratheons and that's what people in asoiaf will base Godfrey's hair on
So tapestries displaying portraits of all the Baratheons hanging in the throne room has to be removed because they might give away the fact that Joffrey and his siblings aren’t Roberts, but they’ve been up the 15 years of Roberts reign and no one put it together? If they hadn’t caused a problem in 12 years they wouldn’t after. People didn’t need portraits of Baratheons to know those kids aren’t his they already know what the Baratheon’s look like.
I really feel like Sansa is not supposed to be a very likeable character. It never occurred to me that they were quick to take down the tapestries, I just assumed that’s how it’s done. But yeah, they are really bad at faking perfection. I feel like there’s a symmetry between Daenery’s and Sansa here. Both public speaking (which Sansa likely hasn’t had to do a lot of before), and eating an entire horse heart, are difficult tasks. And both young women looked to the men they’ve been tied to for the courage to get the task done.
Caitlyn did Sansa a disservice by not making Sansa cup bear for Ned so she would have a clue in places like Kings Landing. Cat knew a lot about politics, but Cat didn't pass that on to Sansa.
@@tonysled6796 I agree, Ned should have traveled to KL and left the girls home, and waited a year or two before bringing the down. Ned was so unprepared for KL.
@@permiebird937 he was. and he ignored omens in place of rationalism. not to say that he should have known Bran was pushed by the Lannisters but to encourage putting his family at risk after that event ignores his control. Also he completely leaves Robert Baratheon out of his circle of trust in the crypts and at Kings Landing. This ends up being catastrophic. Robert's drinking is a friend in despair....Ned and others use him as a tool of destruction then when he is of no use any longer they let him destroy himself slowly. Stannis cannot reach him but I am sure tried and Renly is too young to take his behaviour as negative. Maybe Ned thought he had more time. In any case he should have isolated Robert from the Lannisters and put his friendship to the test...
First of all I would just like to point out that even if Sansa had told the truth about what Joffery did to Micah Ceresi would found some way to get back at her for the sake of Joffery. Second of all Sansa doesn't know that she's only in love with the idea of Joffery and not the actual person!
John killing Dani ruined my favorite book series.....he did it for shock value cuz he's known for killing main characters I mean if John it would have sucked but Dani was supposed to live point blank period
If by "he" you mean GRRM, he wasn't involved in the later seasons of GOT. The showrunners are to blame for how badly the writing went downhill after Season 4.
Hannah Brennan I think Dany will go mad in the books aswell, there is hints of it. Just because Dany has done good things doesn’t means she’ll stay that way. I think her going mad is a great storyline its just the show rushed it so everyone says it was a stupid decision
@@deiseabu I don't think she will go mad in the books. The Order of the Green Hand did a whole series evaluating her story throughout the books. You should check it out. They explain very well why she won't in later books if they're ever published.
Yes but grrm said the main characters are going to be finished on the the way he intended them to be but they're just a different way of them getting their you understand what I'm saying Danny was raped Danny's whole family was murdered she had to live in Exile and she came back and came for the throne for him to kill her off for shock value is just ridiculous the book is about Danny I think I feel Danny was the character that the book was really really about from the first book with the red comet shoot across the sky John was a very main character too but it's like he died also he went to the wall he's not going to have no kids and they make bran the king the whole last episode ruined my favorite series of books they were great but Danny needed to live Danny needed to rule Westeros John needed to be with her like all targaryens were married to each other or you needed to be the King of the North I was so disappointed in that ending that I just stopped buying merch don't even like the books really and just turned me off so bad. Come on grrm we know you're well known for killing main characters but come on Danny really? Horrible ending.
@@kingkiller5753 well maybe because dany ruling westeros was never supposed to be the ending. Just cause you have a fanfiction ending made up in your head doesnt mean its actually going to happen.
Oddly enough, I kind of agree with Slynt about Barristan. There are two sides to this. We all love Barristan. We want him do well, but the King's Guard has a purpose, and if keeping the king alive is the most important thing, it probably isn't well suited to being led by someone who's going to live into his 60s. Kind of a stupid tradition for them to serve for life. I imagine when that tradition was implemented, it was just accepted that such men wouldn't live long. Barristan may feel bad about failing Rhaegar and Aerys, and Robert, but not bad enough to consider the possibility that he might not be fit to serve the next king in the same capacity. Barristan had probably gone on a thousand hunts. He should have been able to tell at a glance when someone wasn't fit to take on a boar, and really considered the consequences of what will happen if he doesn't step in. Ned would have at least tried to talk Robert out of it. Neither would likely stop Robert, but it's clear that three kings in, Barristan had become comfortable and lazy in his position, as well as a pointless and out of place member of the small council which was also just ceremonial in his case ... all of which is why retirement is a good thing.
Yeah it was tbe right decision in theory, but in context it was a terrible time to upset tradition, lose a popular Knight and potentially give legitimacy to any rival claimant.
@@alexturlais8558 They certainly could have picked a less embarrassing/more convincing way to way to break the news to him, rather than in front of the whole court, and things may have turned out more cordial. Of course, it kind of goes without saying that when you put yourself in a life long occupation, guarding people you hate, that things aren't likely to go well for you. Barristan was able to overlook everything else they did, until they did it to him.
the irony of the Kingsguard is that they cannot stop the King or Queen from making poor choices and killing themselves because that would put them above the king. they are designed to look for a certain type of enemy but people like Varys Littlefinger Tywin and others know the gaps in such an organizations vision. they would employ poison disease children women assassinations or foreign forces (faceless men) rather than directly attack the king
@@tonysled6796 There are ways to prevent the king from making bad decisions, however imperfect those ways are. Ned prevented Robert from participating in the melee, for instance. He knew Robert well enough to at least be convincing in his argumentation. Reasoning with a drunken Robert probably wouldn't work so well, but Barristan's job isn't isn't about comforting the king, it's about putting his life before the king's. If that means that Barristan has to step in and kill the boar before Robert can, and then face the consequences afterward, that's probably what he should have done.
I think a lot of criticism and defense Sansa focuses on naivety, but not the entitlement. It’s the common thread among all the so-called villains we meet in the show at least - is a smugness.
honestly i've listened to other podcasters who were very anti sansa (one of whom blamed sansa for her molestation) and grey is very tame in comparison imo from what i've listened. she just doesnt like sansa and is upfront about it, even tho i largely disagree with her reasons. what annoys me is them saying in this episode that sansa is responsible for mycah's death. i dont want to sound bitchy but i do think this is a case of bias because i honestly think if gray (or whoever) forced themselves to put aside their dislike of sansa, then they would be forced to conclude she has no responsibility for Mycah because biases aside, that is what the situation presents. and to be quite frank if sansa had died in the show i dont think gray would be questioning sansa's survival 😂 not to mention george said he disregarded the outline as soon as he began writing.
@@cheriealicent9981 yeah because Jamie was supposed to be king in an original version of the book. But nah her telling the truth wouldn't have saved the butchers boy. That scene is GOT in miniature. Two high lords fought and the small folk were the only one to suffer.
Yep. I still think Ned and Sansa planned exactly what she would say. Arya was missing for DAYS. If you're going to be interrogated by a King your father would wring the truth out then drill your story into you. If Ned didn't do that then he REALLY failed Sansa and Arya.
@@cheriealicent9981 Agree with you for sure. I feel like seeing Sansa as solely responsible for Mycah's death is ridiculous. Very shallow interpretation of events. George never writes like 1 person is to blame for a complicated, awful situation
What I’m hoping is that Sansa gets out of the habit of taking people and things at face value. She never seems to hear what people are NOT saying. Literally at 14:23, she takes what cersei says as the truth. In the later books she seems to getting out of it.
I love Barristan the Bold. His departure from the Kingsguard was an epic moment for sure. But for me nothing tops the Kingbreaker fight where he seizes Hizdahr and the pit fighter threatens to eat his heart, and Barristan basically says knuck if you buck and responds "then come". Then immediately proceeds to kill the pit fighter w/relative ease, removing his entrails and stabbing him in the heart. That's one of my all time favorite chapters in ASOIAF because of that moment. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Ser Barristan.
Alot of pressure is put on Sansa that isn't put on others who ALSO do unforgivable things. Jamie, as an adult pushes a 8 year old out a window and hes ppls favs lol
Yeah it's weird to me.
@@wisdommanari6701 she’s 11 and yet people judge her harsher than they judge Victarion, the guy that murdered his wife for being raped
I've never liked Jamie, sure he's complicated, but he has too many flaws to be considered likable.
When Arya changes, she goes from wild and fiesty to honed and straight up dangerous, Jon starts by having potential with a sword to being a renowned swordsman and a Lord Commander, bran goes from being a little boy curious about everything in the world and is now exploring the higher powers, rob goes from a lord in training to a king, Rickon is hyper little northman and goes presumably feral on Skagos, like the rest of the Stark children had the original character traits amplified, sharpened, and developed in the same direction they were already headed in. Sansas mistakes make her character development unique in that she has to pretty much do a 180 in order to survive. She has to let go of the fairy tales, the belief in the best in people, and her softness and we have seen her let it go bit by bit. Sansa doing naive shit, like all children do, is how we mark her character development. Like none of the other Stark kids are in the constant danger that Sansa has been in. Like none of them but Arya that single time with the direwolves have had to stand in front of Joffery or Cersei who could easily kill or hurt her and been made to defend themselves like that.
@@thedornishmanswife3712 Sansa story is the most human. She makes mistakes, she learns and she grows. So far, she's had no magical skills to aid her. No wolf dreams, no direwolf, no red priests, no warging. Instead she's being groomed to strategize her way out of situations.
“You don’t even go here” 🤣 I can’t stand Janos Slynt
City Watches's finest! lol
She becomes one of my favorites as the books progress. I think Lady dying meant the symbolic death of her naive self, the PIECES side of the game of thrones, to give way for gradual growth into a PLAYER in the great game. She's going to become a sought of Lady Orlena for the Starks. They sure as hell need one or they won't stand a chance. I love her journey because she keeps growing and she keeps learning. I love where George is taking her. I believe by the end of the books her arc will be one of the most fascinating in the story.
She will continue to be a divisive character to the end. That's why she's interesting and compelling. I don't understand why many readers can be forgiving of characters like the Hound, Jaime, Tyrion, Orlena, Tywin (grown adults who've done more unforgivable things ), but hate Sansa so intensely, for acting like a naive sheltered child who didn't know any better.
What irritated me about show Sansa in the last season, was that the writers tried to sell the audience on her new found intelligence, by reducing all other characters into bumbling fools in her presence. Tyrion and Baelish especially were butchered to make Sansa seem to be the smartest character. As for the books, if anyone is to blame for who Sansa was first is Catelyn, then Ned's naivety. Sansa was a Mama's girl. Catelyn had the biggest influence on how Sansa was raised. Ned was puzzled as to what to do with her, because he wasn't as close to her as he was with his other children.
Finally, I believe Sansa will be calling the shots in Winterfell in the end. Either as regent to one of her brothers or as Lord or Queen of the North. If her Alayne chapters hint anything about her future, it's that she will be the one to rebuild Winterfell.
"Janos Slynt needs to sit tf down." 🤣😂
Half a world away in Wales there is a lady(me)So sad 😥and then boom the LADY GRAY and her handmaid's have brought me joy.Sending soo much love to you guys.
Tywin being obbessed with making people fear House Lannister and then people turning from House Lannister after his death because they don't fear a ghost (if I remember in Cersei's POV people were making fun of how he died on the privy) thus helping contribute to its downfall is very ironic and a little sad (but deserving)
I heard a theory, I think it was Talking thrones. He said Drogon may have taken Dany over to Meereen for the Red Priests to resurrect her. So Dany may not be dead!!
Sansa isn't responsible for Mycah.
- The Hound was still absent at the time of the 'trial', as he was still out searching.
- The Hound only returned with Mycah's body just after Ned killed Lady and made arrangements for her body to be sent North.
- This means that the Hound either killed Mycah before the 'trial' took place, or after without him having any awareness of said 'trial' taking place! My guess is that the murder took place before. What's more when the Hound spoke to Ned, he didn't even know Arya had been found.
Ned said it himself. The only people responsible are Cersei and the Hound.
edit: honestly what made me roll my eyes was you gushing over the hound. like y'all actually realize that grown man is the one at fault for mycah, not that child you blame?
I agree with this, Mycah was going to die regarless. He died because of Joffrey there's not one else to blame
another example of the Starks being responsible compared to the other houses under Ned's leadership. even if they get the sentence wrong they have a rule of law that can protect people who are not highborn.
Yeah, low-key same...
I don't think Sansa is an idiot for pleading she was doing the best she could under the circumstance
YASSS!!! been patiently waiting for another dose of obsidian nights
honestly while i disagree with the redemption thing for the sake of the arguement if sansa does need to redeem herself - then honestly wouldn't her being the one to kill LF be enough? the person who started all this shit (ie killing jon arryn and setting in motion the stark lannister conflict)
sansa was unable to win her father mercy her getting him justice is very significant.
Why does she need redemption?
I thought Lysa killed him? He was planning to have his son fostered at Dragonstone, so she killed him. Then she ran back to the Eyrie as King Robert was planning to send her son to Casterly Rock.
Pycelle made sure he died because Cersei was aware that Jon Aryn knew about her children.
Two episodes in a row? Is it christmas already? 😍
Sansa goes through so much in a short timespan. if given the opportunity to be free i expect she will find a garrison of loyal troops and fight for the rest of her life in service of anything that puts a hole in the ambitions of people like Joffrey, Cersei, Littlefinger or even the "women" who encouraged her naive childish self to believe her house was lesser than anyone else's.....if given the opportunity of course
I want her to be free, to me Sansa is Ned true heir she is naive as him with a hunting pass and honor, I think she Will rule the North at the end
@@vanessaamesty6739 Ned needed safety and mentorship. I believe Sansa will find friends in the Vale and maybe already has. Seems like those houses are similar to the Starks in that they have no desire to rule outside of their realm. Hopefully she can retain some power and have a loyal retainer by her side. It is my view that if the Hound is alive he will seek her out to protect her until she sits her regular seat. also i do think she will have an interesting influence over Tyrion should they meet again....she brought out that admirable ability he has of belittling the most powerful forces around him (Joffrey) even if it cost him. loved that pairing of characters.
@@tonysled6796 Lothor Brune is protecting her and I think he will protect her from Baelish and Harry the heir. I like him as a friend to Sansa. Like you said she needs good people arround her
The Hound and Tyrion as well, very courious on how that would turn out.
@@vanessaamesty6739 Seems like she formed a connection with them that was not just one sided. Sure out of necessity but they both exposed themselves to harm from the throne by protecting her at different key moments and she rejects them both as well. Sansa in Kings landing is almost a separate character. I hope she isnt going to ignore help and I hope she reveals her identity to someone because aside from being in the room with her Littlefinger poses less of a threat than her wasting time believing that he does....
would love her to be more than just a vehicle for the seat of Winterfell everyone seems to make her out to be ASOF fans and her enemies included
I could see Bran ruling from the Gods Eye that would cool as hell.
A theory I heard is that the tapestries could be use to disprove Jeffrey/Tommens legitimacy, similar to how the book of the noble houses helped Ned realise they weren't Baratheons. If you point out that every other Baratheon lord looked similar, Cersei's children look like the odd ones out.
Hi Gray! 👋 I too am 10 years older than my sister.
Ned died in place of sansa, he killed her wolf she indirectly helps gets him killed, sansa will live, there’s a chapter where Jamie says he sees sansa marrying a smith, gendry, Robert said I have a son, you have a daughter, let’s unite our houses, that would be the true unification of their families
Its a thought
Sansa has passed that time where she will be married off. I think if she survives she will die before someone tells her who to be with. And technically she is still married to Tyrion.....both Jamie and Robert famously don't get to have what they want (Lyanna and Cersei) and both subsequently have partners that do not stay with them. Sansa will need loyalty going forward and respect.
Good job, ladies!
Asoiaf supposed to be Gray life but she be getting the easiest stuff wrong, Willis Tyrell is Mace Tyrells eldest while Garlan comes second than Loras.
The hunting tapestries probably have pictures of Barathians with their dark hair and blue eyes, which proves Joff isn't Bobby B's. Little Finger wants the tapestries because hanging in the Vale on public display, owned by Nestor Royce, who knew Bobby B, they show the Vale that Tommen, is not Bobby B's, which delegitimizes Cersie's rule.
Gray Lady returns...
Excellent💯 content
Well this is gunna make my morning! Thank you Lady Gray👍
Pretty sad. She was having to be delusional to herself because she literally had no one to comfort her.
I wonder if any of jofferys decisions were pushed by Sansa addressing him as my prince instead of my king when she was asking for mercy for Ned, especially right asking why Ned had said he wasn't the king, now Sansa low-key saying it too right to his face. It would piss him off.
I still think Joff was so fucked up that he actually believed he was showing mercy
Ser Barristan isn't only deadly with a sword but he got bars too😂 he absolutely destroyed the remaining King's Guard and the King 😂
She’s most like her father at first then after time her mother’s personality emerged and she saw things clearly
Just finished this series!! When will the next ones come LOL thank you for this truly
Apparently they continued on spotify only
Gotta love Gray🥰
Little finger secretly works with the children of the Forrest
House Targaryen fans will never forget what she did to the true Queen of the 7 kingdoms. Daenery Targaryen.
What who did
@@thedornishmanswife3712 The video is about Sansa, I'm talking about this snitch sansa
I feel so sad for Sansa. She's a young girl who was not prepped for Womanhood. I can relate.
Always enjoy your content. ❤️
also love this Gray! thank you!
Thank you Gray Area!🌹🍃
this wass fun. rrandom thoughts:
lannisters full of themselves: yes! but i think if tywin had been there, then despite his also being full of himself they wouldn't have done that rot about "housee barratheon and lannister" and whatnot. also ned wouldn't have died, b/c tywin, unlike cersei, would have no difficulty countermanding jofffo. (cersei herself had no trouble countermanding tommen.) appearances would have been respected.
also i'm sure ser barristan would not have been forced into retirement. he's definitely capable of defending joffrey; he defended dany w/ a *stick* against a chap w/ a *sword*. slynt stynks; we had fun listening to stannis putting him down a peg on BOOK CLUB recently. it was fun hearing ser barry tell offf joff.
it's nice that sansa is thinking of arya now. sansa does show courage in this chapter; so i have to give her that.
Awww, Gray 😂 Stop hating on Sansa.. she def grows on ya.. for me, anyways. She’s so innocent at this point, and she still trusts people.. can’t help but feel a little sorry for her.. she thinks she’s doing exactly what a well-bred lady of the day is expect (or ‘trained’) to do.. and she’s left on her to figure things. She was truly sheltered from the real world. BUT, in her defense, she really acted/did what she thought was ‘expected’ vs. what was right and true. Love you and this so much! TY 🙏🏼
Supposably it is because these trap tapestries depict Baratheons with black hair according to other RUclipsrs
I didnt notice them but upon my next rewatch I'll keep an eye out for those other clues about the legitimacy of the line. Wow. This was an interesting possible clue that i never thought about.
@@sillygirlkc well I don't think you getting it in the mane series you see what it means in fire and blood by description of other baratheons and that's what people in asoiaf will base Godfrey's hair on
So tapestries displaying portraits of all the Baratheons hanging in the throne room has to be removed because they might give away the fact that Joffrey and his siblings aren’t Roberts, but they’ve been up the 15 years of Roberts reign and no one put it together? If they hadn’t caused a problem in 12 years they wouldn’t after. People didn’t need portraits of Baratheons to know those kids aren’t his they already know what the Baratheon’s look like.
@@christinestreeter8566 hmm maybe or maybe they never had a reason to notice.
I think the exclusion of Arianne might be early installment weirdness or an example of gardener writing by George.
No, Arianne is mentioned as the heir of Sunspear in appendix of book 1. Just that Westeros is sexist to woman.
@@lordofcastamere9376 really? huh
I really feel like Sansa is not supposed to be a very likeable character.
It never occurred to me that they were quick to take down the tapestries, I just assumed that’s how it’s done. But yeah, they are really bad at faking perfection.
I feel like there’s a symmetry between Daenery’s and Sansa here. Both public speaking (which Sansa likely hasn’t had to do a lot of before), and eating an entire horse heart, are difficult tasks. And both young women looked to the men they’ve been tied to for the courage to get the task done.
Caitlyn did Sansa a disservice by not making Sansa cup bear for Ned so she would have a clue in places like Kings Landing. Cat knew a lot about politics, but Cat didn't pass that on to Sansa.
I also think Sansa was influenced by Cat in terms of wanting to leave home...She could have married Joff and still stayed at Winterfell longer...
@@tonysled6796 I agree, Ned should have traveled to KL and left the girls home, and waited a year or two before bringing the down. Ned was so unprepared for KL.
@@permiebird937 he was. and he ignored omens in place of rationalism. not to say that he should have known Bran was pushed by the Lannisters but to encourage putting his family at risk after that event ignores his control. Also he completely leaves Robert Baratheon out of his circle of trust in the crypts and at Kings Landing. This ends up being catastrophic. Robert's drinking is a friend in despair....Ned and others use him as a tool of destruction then when he is of no use any longer they let him destroy himself slowly. Stannis cannot reach him but I am sure tried and Renly is too young to take his behaviour as negative. Maybe Ned thought he had more time. In any case he should have isolated Robert from the Lannisters and put his friendship to the test...
Cat wanted her on the fast track to the throne....Winterfell is another dead end to her.
Love your content❤️
First of all I would just like to point out that even if Sansa had told the truth about what Joffery did to Micah Ceresi would found some way to get back at her for the sake of Joffery. Second of all Sansa doesn't know that she's only in love with the idea of Joffery and not the actual person!
John killing Dani ruined my favorite book series.....he did it for shock value cuz he's known for killing main characters I mean if John it would have sucked but Dani was supposed to live point blank period
If by "he" you mean GRRM, he wasn't involved in the later seasons of GOT. The showrunners are to blame for how badly the writing went downhill after Season 4.
Hannah Brennan I think Dany will go mad in the books aswell, there is hints of it. Just because Dany has done good things doesn’t means she’ll stay that way. I think her going mad is a great storyline its just the show rushed it so everyone says it was a stupid decision
@@deiseabu I don't think she will go mad in the books. The Order of the Green Hand did a whole series evaluating her story throughout the books. You should check it out. They explain very well why she won't in later books if they're ever published.
Yes but grrm said the main characters are going to be finished on the the way he intended them to be but they're just a different way of them getting their you understand what I'm saying Danny was raped Danny's whole family was murdered she had to live in Exile and she came back and came for the throne for him to kill her off for shock value is just ridiculous the book is about Danny I think I feel Danny was the character that the book was really really about from the first book with the red comet shoot across the sky John was a very main character too but it's like he died also he went to the wall he's not going to have no kids and they make bran the king the whole last episode ruined my favorite series of books they were great but Danny needed to live Danny needed to rule Westeros John needed to be with her like all targaryens were married to each other or you needed to be the King of the North I was so disappointed in that ending that I just stopped buying merch don't even like the books really and just turned me off so bad. Come on grrm we know you're well known for killing main characters but come on Danny really? Horrible ending.
@@kingkiller5753 well maybe because dany ruling westeros was never supposed to be the ending. Just cause you have a fanfiction ending made up in your head doesnt mean its actually going to happen.
Robert of the Houses Baratheon and Estermont 🦌🐢 👑
Wish a Barristan would!
Sansa is going through puberty and Aria still thinks boys have cooties. Perfect t age gap for conflict.
Oddly enough, I kind of agree with Slynt about Barristan. There are two sides to this. We all love Barristan. We want him do well, but the King's Guard has a purpose, and if keeping the king alive is the most important thing, it probably isn't well suited to being led by someone who's going to live into his 60s. Kind of a stupid tradition for them to serve for life. I imagine when that tradition was implemented, it was just accepted that such men wouldn't live long. Barristan may feel bad about failing Rhaegar and Aerys, and Robert, but not bad enough to consider the possibility that he might not be fit to serve the next king in the same capacity.
Barristan had probably gone on a thousand hunts. He should have been able to tell at a glance when someone wasn't fit to take on a boar, and really considered the consequences of what will happen if he doesn't step in. Ned would have at least tried to talk Robert out of it. Neither would likely stop Robert, but it's clear that three kings in, Barristan had become comfortable and lazy in his position, as well as a pointless and out of place member of the small council which was also just ceremonial in his case ... all of which is why retirement is a good thing.
Yeah it was tbe right decision in theory, but in context it was a terrible time to upset tradition, lose a popular Knight and potentially give legitimacy to any rival claimant.
@@alexturlais8558 They certainly could have picked a less embarrassing/more convincing way to way to break the news to him, rather than in front of the whole court, and things may have turned out more cordial.
Of course, it kind of goes without saying that when you put yourself in a life long occupation, guarding people you hate, that things aren't likely to go well for you. Barristan was able to overlook everything else they did, until they did it to him.
@@StannisHarlock exactly, they picked the worst way to do what might have been a good idea.
the irony of the Kingsguard is that they cannot stop the King or Queen from making poor choices and killing themselves because that would put them above the king. they are designed to look for a certain type of enemy but people like Varys Littlefinger Tywin and others know the gaps in such an organizations vision. they would employ poison disease children women assassinations or foreign forces (faceless men) rather than directly attack the king
@@tonysled6796 There are ways to prevent the king from making bad decisions, however imperfect those ways are. Ned prevented Robert from participating in the melee, for instance. He knew Robert well enough to at least be convincing in his argumentation. Reasoning with a drunken Robert probably wouldn't work so well, but Barristan's job isn't isn't about comforting the king, it's about putting his life before the king's. If that means that Barristan has to step in and kill the boar before Robert can, and then face the consequences afterward, that's probably what he should have done.
I love Gray's idea that Sansa will sacrifice herself for Arya, paralleling her direwolf Lady, it's beautiful 🥲
I think a lot of criticism and defense Sansa focuses on naivety, but not the entitlement. It’s the common thread among all the so-called villains we meet in the show at least - is a smugness.
Gray i love your podcasts so much but you're so mean to Sansa :(
honestly i've listened to other podcasters who were very anti sansa (one of whom blamed sansa for her molestation) and grey is very tame in comparison imo from what i've listened. she just doesnt like sansa and is upfront about it, even tho i largely disagree with her reasons.
what annoys me is them saying in this episode that sansa is responsible for mycah's death. i dont want to sound bitchy but i do think this is a case of bias because i honestly think if gray (or whoever) forced themselves to put aside their dislike of sansa, then they would be forced to conclude she has no responsibility for Mycah because biases aside, that is what the situation presents. and to be quite frank if sansa had died in the show i dont think gray would be questioning sansa's survival 😂 not to mention george said he disregarded the outline as soon as he began writing.
@@cheriealicent9981 yeah because Jamie was supposed to be king in an original version of the book.
But nah her telling the truth wouldn't have saved the butchers boy. That scene is GOT in miniature. Two high lords fought and the small folk were the only one to suffer.
@@wisdommanari6701 Well said
Yep. I still think Ned and Sansa planned exactly what she would say. Arya was missing for DAYS. If you're going to be interrogated by a King your father would wring the truth out then drill your story into you. If Ned didn't do that then he REALLY failed Sansa and Arya.
@@cheriealicent9981 Agree with you for sure. I feel like seeing Sansa as solely responsible for Mycah's death is ridiculous. Very shallow interpretation of events. George never writes like 1 person is to blame for a complicated, awful situation
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GA!!!
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Dani eating hearts and killed her brother by way of her husband ultimately turned into her brother and yaul disliked Sansa dufuq 😮
What I’m hoping is that Sansa gets out of the habit of taking people and things at face value. She never seems to hear what people are NOT saying. Literally at 14:23, she takes what cersei says as the truth. In the later books she seems to getting out of it.
She's 11 years old
@@mschell8022 and Neds and Catelyn daugther who are exactly like that 😂
Yaul are not seeing clearly
Sansa did not tell on Arya
She sparred her life by not admitting anything 🫤