looks like 11 amps is on a dead short cct (through the ampmeter) no wonder its getting hot.......for a higher voltage (lets say 240v) try a smaller (aluminium fly wheel )drive from the generator ( lets say 1/2 the diameter) for a higher speed on the pancake motor ... I love these motors .. I have 4 of them. thanks for the video.
I found the solution to making better power with these. Of course you have to get the stators with the heavier gauge or you can rewind them as you have. Using 1.6 mm which is about 14 AWG wire is the best method for higher amps. That said, the best rotor design is NOT the fisher paykels design. I used 1 kind of magnet, a 25mm wide x 40mm long x 20 mm thick magnet and used 1 magnet for every 1.75 coils 42 poles got me 24 of these magnets. The change I made is I made my own rotor. By simply cutting me a large steel disc and bending a band of metal around it I made a pan ( rotor) with the band of metal being 2x the with of the magnets length to reduce eddy folding. I then placed a thin 24 gauge inner ring of aluminum into the rim and thats what I mounted the magnets to. It was then riveted to the thicker steel. This was done to give shared magnetism but to reduce magnetic pole parasitic reaction. That rotor was then cut and vented with ridges to make a blower like effect onto the stator. At 530 Rpms I am making 54 volts and 24 amps. Not bad for a prototype.
I noticed that someone mentioned heat being generated meaning you have resistance. The real truth is that heat is a function of current and resistance. It is the square of the current times the resistance. In this case you are overloading the washing machine motor. Someone said somewhere that the motor draws about 4 amps when working in the washing machine. You used slightly larger wire which lowered the resistance. The real problem is that 4 squared is only 16 times the resistance of the wire ( the old wire). 12 amps squared is 144 times the new lower resistance. If the new wire has 1/2 the resistance of the old wire that is good, but 144 times a new lower resistance that is one half as high results in 72. 72 is over 4 times more heat produced. This is a good experiment but the device is too small to be able to produce power for a long extended period of time without burning up the wire insulation. Al
That is really good output....For cooling I would cut slits between the magnets, angled towards the rotation, and some bigger exit holes , then it would be like a brake rotor, catch the wind when it rotates, also no load from an extra fan... Good job mate... Cheers. Neal Ward
Yes, you can actually use a 10 inch brake drum, this will stop the warping under heat at least. I dont know, maybe ill give up on the fishers and make a professional style PMA. You can buy them but at $3900 for a 10kw means ill need two and thats alot of cash. Gunna look into making my own proper PMA as i was going to use those in the long run anyway.
Matt you need to pulse drive the now highly efficient Fisher & Paykel you built. Then use this to drive an alternator pulley either use the F&P rotor as fly wheel or add an intermediate one...between prime mover and alternator. Gerry at EmuPlns.
Thats not a brake drum. Its the stock plastic rotor with neodyniums replacing the ceramics. I have an idea of what i will do, ill upload later when finished. thanks for your comment.
Why don't you use part of the energy for a peltier module ?? it might do it if attached to the plaque. Just a thought that I'm going to use in a striking project.
And as someone has already commented you were using the ammeter as the load not just as a current measuring device. What I have done with solar experiments is to get a light fixture and hook it up and as you screw the light bulbs in they become the load and they get hot and will burn you when you go to remove them. Find one that will take 3 light bulbs and screw in 3 60 watt bulbs one at a time but the voltage must be 120 volts or you will burn them out. AL
heat is always a sign of resistance in your circuit or overloaded draw try using caps in circuit to help with draw or transformer and caps wire gage increase will help as well
Thinking of doing that Max, but this morning i came out on my way to work and i took a look at my rotor and it had warped, the heat had softened the resin holding the magnets and the magnets pulled themselves into the stator. So now i got to make a new one.
That is OK while you run it free, but as soon as you put any sort of proper load on it, it could catch fire, or burn out the coils. To cool it, draw a bigish number 7 several times on the rotor, use a thin grinder disc to cut the 7's lines, the tease out the cut part(corner) now they will push or pull air through the coils. I hope you understand what I mean, good luck.
You mentioned changing the number of turns on the windings ( as well as a more robust wire) What changes when you increase (or decrease) the number of windings?
Its great that you are experimenting with Power Generation - like Tesla!! A little constructive criticism on the Rotor with the extra strong magnets. I can never believe that you would achieve the maximum output from the F&P Rotor - as made from plastic. One of the first rules is to maintain the smallest possible Air-Gap between the Rotor and Stator Coils. This gap must be consistent and concentric. Can only be achieved with good Bearings and a fully-metal Rotor - such as aluminium. The neodymium magnets could be a shrink-fit into the slots - or even cast-in position. Many motocycle alternators are made in this way. From your video, it would appear that the air-gap has lots of variance (not concentric) between the rotor/stator, which is a bad recipe to start with. Finally, I wondered if you designed a generator with twice the diameter of the F&P Unit. The peripheral speed would increase - at lower engine revs too. Much bigger air - gap between the coils for cooling. Keep up the good work.
Hi AHL, nice work! Looking at this with pleasure because I am busy designing a pm alternator/generator with a diesel engine that's a lot more silent. I tried to calculate the voltage of each coil and if I am right, it should be about 12V at 1,1 apms, is that correct? (230V divided by 1,4 for the voltage before the rectifier). Instead of using "small magnets" I want to use the bigger ones with a lot bigger coil, weak-iron core and a low voltage of about 24V AC totally. The goal is to charge a set of 8 LiFePO4 CALB cells with about 100 Amps. Could you give me some meore info about your measurements? Regards Paul
where did you get the pulleys from? I've been looking for some thing similar for my build using a 5.5 Brigg from a husqvarna mower to power a portable led light tower.
Just watched this one... and all of your "problems" seem to point to the mis-use of your Amp meter, which should NEVER be connected ACROSS the output of the rectifier... that also explains why it was getting so hot. Be sure to read my notes on the previous video of this series... it explains in full details.
you need a better driver that is why , i wonder how much tourqe you have on it now ? what it heat the motor is the lenz and B-EMF , you can run it at 2000 if you want
hellow nice ma by cooling through cut larger fins on the one side or weld a thin fan arangment on the open side to move air tourds the magnet s thankyou for your video
some late info. this stator is Not good for a pma. but the stock motor could be a direct-drive solution, to the ou challenge. i am working with one, now. googletranslate
some more info. there is an OPTIMAL configuration for ANY pma. this ain't it there are REASONS why this info is Not just opinion. each phase Should consist of three, equally spaced coils, connected in series; this is a relative interval of 120 degrees. the rotor Should have four, equally spaced magnetic poles, per phase; a relative interval of 90 degrees. this 4:3 ratio results in the three coils of each phase being energized simultaneously; and the phases energized in sequence. thanks to hpiggot, some folks think that Adjacent coils should be interconnected, in a f&p stator. W R O N G. it is safe to assume that your mods have NOT resulted in an efficient pma. so, the number of coils Should be a Multiple of Three; the number of magnetic poles SHOULD BE a multiple of Four. see linked illustration, of a Correct, 3-phase stator config. it may be possible to reconfigure the rotor, fairly easily. the stator, idk. cheers scoraigwind.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/coils91.png
looks like 11 amps is on a dead short cct (through the ampmeter) no wonder its getting hot.......for a higher voltage (lets say 240v) try a smaller (aluminium fly wheel )drive from the generator ( lets say 1/2 the diameter) for a higher speed on the pancake motor ... I love these motors .. I have 4 of them. thanks for the video.
I found the solution to making better power with these. Of course you have to get the stators with the heavier gauge or you can rewind them as you have. Using 1.6 mm which is about 14 AWG wire is the best method for higher amps. That said, the best rotor design is NOT the fisher paykels design. I used 1 kind of magnet, a 25mm wide x 40mm long x 20 mm thick magnet and used 1 magnet for every 1.75 coils 42 poles got me 24 of these magnets.
The change I made is I made my own rotor. By simply cutting me a large steel disc and bending a band of metal around it I made a pan ( rotor) with the band of metal being 2x the with of the magnets length to reduce eddy folding. I then placed a thin 24 gauge inner ring of aluminum into the rim and thats what I mounted the magnets to. It was then riveted to the thicker steel. This was done to give shared magnetism but to reduce magnetic pole parasitic reaction.
That rotor was then cut and vented with ridges to make a blower like effect onto the stator. At 530 Rpms I am making 54 volts and 24 amps. Not bad for a prototype.
Any improvements on this design I'm the end ? Thinking of using it for a wind turbine
I noticed that someone mentioned heat being generated meaning you have resistance. The real truth is that heat is a function of current and resistance. It is the square of the current times the resistance. In this case you are overloading the washing machine motor. Someone said somewhere that the motor draws about 4 amps when working in the washing machine. You used slightly larger wire which lowered the resistance. The real problem is that 4 squared is only 16 times the resistance of the wire ( the old wire). 12 amps squared is 144 times the new lower resistance. If the new wire has 1/2 the resistance of the old wire that is good, but 144 times a new lower resistance that is one half as high results in 72. 72 is over 4 times more heat produced. This is a good experiment but the device is too small to be able to produce power for a long extended period of time without burning up the wire insulation. Al
That is really good output....For cooling I would cut slits between the magnets, angled towards the rotation, and some bigger exit holes , then it would be like a brake rotor, catch the wind when it rotates, also no load from an extra fan...
Good job mate...
Cheers.
Neal Ward
Yes, you can actually use a 10 inch brake drum, this will stop the warping under heat at least. I dont know, maybe ill give up on the fishers and make a professional style PMA. You can buy them but at $3900 for a 10kw means ill need two and thats alot of cash. Gunna look into making my own proper PMA as i was going to use those in the long run anyway.
Matt you need to pulse drive the now highly efficient Fisher & Paykel you built. Then use this to drive an alternator pulley either use the F&P rotor as fly wheel or add an intermediate one...between prime mover and alternator. Gerry at EmuPlns.
Thats not a brake drum. Its the stock plastic rotor with neodyniums replacing the ceramics. I have an idea of what i will do, ill upload later when finished. thanks for your comment.
The heat-sink paste should be as thin as possible, its intended to fill air gaps between the 2, not make the gap bigger.
Why don't you use part of the energy for a peltier module ?? it might do it if attached to the plaque. Just a thought that I'm going to use in a striking project.
And as someone has already commented you were using the ammeter as the load not just as a current measuring device. What I have done with solar experiments is to get a light fixture and hook it up and as you screw the light bulbs in they become the load and they get hot and will burn you when you go to remove them. Find one that will take 3 light bulbs and screw in 3 60 watt bulbs one at a time but the voltage must be 120 volts or you will burn them out. AL
heat is always a sign of resistance in your circuit or overloaded draw try using caps in circuit to help with draw or transformer and caps wire gage increase will help as well
Thinking of doing that Max, but this morning i came out on my way to work and i took a look at my rotor and it had warped, the heat had softened the resin holding the magnets and the magnets pulled themselves into the stator. So now i got to make a new one.
That is OK while you run it free, but as soon as you put any sort of proper load on it, it could catch fire, or burn out the coils.
To cool it, draw a bigish number 7 several times on the rotor, use a thin grinder disc to cut the 7's lines, the tease out the cut part(corner) now they will push or pull air through the coils. I hope you understand what I mean, good luck.
You mentioned changing the number of turns on the windings ( as well as a more robust wire) What changes when you increase (or decrease) the number of windings?
More windings; higher voltage.
don't quote me on it but don't neodymium magnet lose sum of their attraction when they get to a high temp ?
Use f and p motor as prime mover and on other end use 5kw gen to take extra power
Yes these do diminish
be careful not to use too much of the heat sink compound just a dab will do very thin layer.
A spark gap would nullify most of the heat..
What is the voltage that the motor needs? Please tell the voltage range for lg direct drive motor.
Its great that you are experimenting with Power Generation - like Tesla!! A little constructive criticism on the Rotor with the extra strong magnets. I can never believe that you would achieve the maximum output from the F&P Rotor - as made from plastic. One of the first rules is to maintain the smallest possible Air-Gap between the Rotor and Stator Coils. This gap must be consistent and concentric. Can only be achieved with good Bearings and a fully-metal Rotor - such as aluminium. The neodymium magnets could be a shrink-fit into the slots - or even cast-in position. Many motocycle alternators are made in this way. From your video, it would appear that the air-gap has lots of variance (not concentric) between the rotor/stator, which is a bad recipe to start with. Finally, I wondered if you designed a generator with twice the diameter of the F&P Unit. The peripheral speed would increase - at lower engine revs too. Much bigger air - gap between the coils for cooling. Keep up the good work.
I have a broken fisher and paykel intuitive ecco... Can i use the motor for something... Like a wood lathe etc?
That was my idea too, I'm building one for a school project.
Hi AHL, nice work!
Looking at this with pleasure because I am busy designing a pm alternator/generator with a diesel engine that's a lot more silent.
I tried to calculate the voltage of each coil and if I am right, it should be about 12V at 1,1 apms, is that correct? (230V divided by 1,4 for the voltage before the rectifier).
Instead of using "small magnets" I want to use the bigger ones with a lot bigger coil, weak-iron core and a low voltage of about 24V AC totally. The goal is to charge a set of 8 LiFePO4 CALB cells with about 100 Amps.
Could you give me some meore info about your measurements?
Regards
Paul
where did you get the pulleys from? I've been looking for some thing similar for my build using a 5.5 Brigg from a husqvarna mower to power a portable led light tower.
+tle1977a Riverstone Sydney
Cool. Thanks for sharing your mod. Can it be wired to low rpm (low voltage and high amps)?
Just watched this one... and all of your "problems" seem to point to the mis-use of your Amp meter, which should NEVER be connected ACROSS the output of the rectifier... that also explains why it was getting so hot. Be sure to read my notes on the previous video of this series... it explains in full details.
like a alternator, maybe put a fan on the motor to blow air directly on the coils
nice work though
you need a better driver that is why , i wonder how much tourqe you have on it now ? what it heat the motor is the lenz and B-EMF , you can run it at 2000 if you want
Do you have any of the fisher and paykel motors left that you want to get rid of?
No, i have a use for all of them. Easy enough to find if you keep an eye open. Or just go to an appliance repair shop and pay $25 for a used one.
What size neo magnets did you use also what grade??
25 x 12 x 3mm. n34 i think
AHL .AHL
Actually i think it was 25 x 10 x 2,5 anyway i have other magnet size ready for testing, ill upload sometime.
multiple pulleys will make the spin
O que amperagem você conseguiu?
hellow nice ma by cooling through cut larger fins on the one side or weld a thin fan arangment on the open side to move air tourds the magnet s thankyou for your video
the older rotors are medal not plastic, there only rated for 1500 watts,,
some late info. this stator is Not good for a pma. but the stock motor could be a direct-drive solution, to the ou challenge. i am working with one, now. googletranslate
change the transmission the polies on the belt
Steve, were you using a dummy load?
Have you still got cooling problems?
assembly to micro hydro power.
how about the differents in power
robb maier ๐
Any generator/alternator will burn up if you short the output like you did with your ammeter.
Use f and p motor as prime move and other end 5kw gen. India nine eight one zero zero two five six six six . Good luck
some more info. there is an OPTIMAL configuration for ANY pma. this ain't it there are REASONS why this info is Not just opinion. each phase Should consist of three, equally spaced coils, connected in series; this is a relative interval of 120 degrees. the rotor Should have four, equally spaced magnetic poles, per phase; a relative interval of 90 degrees. this 4:3 ratio results in the three coils of each phase being energized simultaneously; and the phases energized in sequence. thanks to hpiggot, some folks think that Adjacent coils should be interconnected, in a f&p stator. W R O N G. it is safe to assume that your mods have NOT resulted in an efficient pma. so, the number of coils Should be a Multiple of Three; the number of magnetic poles SHOULD BE a multiple of Four. see linked illustration, of a Correct, 3-phase stator config. it may be possible to reconfigure the rotor, fairly easily. the stator, idk. cheers
scoraigwind.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/coils91.png
Mister!You nid Koper wire not alominij
Just through a bucket of ice water on it.
GO back to the old magnet rotoer