The amount of competition in the fighting game genre on the Dreamcast was crazy. I was playing so many fighting games from Capcom and SNK that I didn't even know about VF3 and SC at the time.
Hi! 🙂 I Today, I prefer Soulcalibur on Namco System 12 🥰than on Dreamcast. On Dreamcast there is too much smoothing on the character, and the filters in the background are even blurry. On Namco System 12, there is indeed a lot of aliasing, but the color level, brightness and brilliance are excellent, especially when the extended JVS mode of the video options is selected, Video Sync Separate & Interlace with VGA Connector in 15khz 😊😉
Your focus is in the wrong place. The Dreamcast port wasn't criticised for its visual translation, it was the GAMEPLAY. The Dreamcast port just didn't play like the arcade, there was a problem with the ground bounce and the launch deterioration, which meant combos that would normally work in the arcade, would no longer work on the Dreamcast version. For alot of people, that was problematic. I have no idea why SEGA did not handle the port with their own internal development team, that's what caused the problems.
@AfterBurnerTeirusu128 There's more than that. The backgrounds took a huge polygon count hit and the textures were lower quality too. To be fair, you really have to be looking and concentrating on these things to really know what you're looking for, to the naked eye the Dreamcast was visually a very good conversion. I think the main criticism was that as the Dreamcast was technically a more updated version of the Model 3 architecture and was capable of better, the argument was that we should have gotten better. Again, the gameplay for me was the bigger issue.
@@Longlostpuss Dreamcast has some feature advantages compared to Model3 and can make amazing looking games... but as far as raw polygon pushing power, it is at a substantial disadvantage, especially early SDK versions.
@@Longlostpuss "I think the main criticism was that as the Dreamcast was technically a more updated version of the Model 3 architecture and was capable of better, the argument was that we should have gotten better." The dreamcast is absolutely nothing like the Model 3, their architecture isnt even remotely similar. The dreamcast architecture is unlike just about any system I've ever worked on. The model 3 has an actual graphics processing unit to perform vertex transformations, the dreamcast does not. All vertex transformations are handled on the SH4 in the embedded FPU, meaning vertex transformations are hardware on the model 3 and software on the dreamcast. The Dreamcast has no real graphics processor, it uses a tile accelerator. Further, the entire rendering model is completely different. The Dreamcast uses deferred tile based rendering, which is a two step rendering process where polygons are binned into groups representing tiles on the screen buffer, then parallel accleration is performed to rasterize each tile separately. This is not at all how the model 3 works, which operates on what is basically a massively simplified shader model that we use today, albeit fixed function. It comes in a 20 or 30 core configuration to transform vertices in parallel, the dreamcast transforms a single polygon (3 vertices) in the SH4 fpu as it only has matrix registers for two matricies, one the transformation and the other 3 points on the polygon with 128-bit SIMD, all of which blocks CPU execution. The Model 3 can transform 40 or 60 vertices at once in parallel with the CPU since it's an entirely separate processor. Even the very basics of the hardware is different: Model 3 has a hardware depth buffer as a dedicated z-buffer, the dreamcast lacks one entirely. The Dreamcast architecture shares more in common with the N64 than the Model 3, I can't believe anybody would claim the Dreamcast is a "more updated version of the model 3 architecture" unless they'd never touched dreamcast programming before. TL;DR: The dreamcast and model 3 are about as different architectures as you can possibly imagine, and share almost no similarities except for the fact that they can both texture map polygons. They are top to bottom 100% different and neither derived from the other. This is not to claim that the dreamcast was inferior to the model 3, just entirely different. You are comparing apples and oranges and saying which one is louder. Your comparison doesn't make sense. You can blame the internet for this, so many people who have never touched the hardware they are talking about saying things they "heard" as fact. I could keep going on and on about their differences but what's the point? It should be obvious just spending a few moments getting a polygon on screen how vastly different the architectures are.
@@gabemorales7814 Goodness gracious, have you not heard of paragraphs dude? I've never claimed to be a programmer or an expert, this is just what was being said at the time, so if that information is wrong, then blame the rumour mill. Kinda shows what SEGA were up against, they were battling misinformation and mismanaged expectations as well as Sony I guess. All too much in the end, but glad they reorganised and are now in a position to deliver the new Virtua Fighter we have all been waiting for since this one.
After playing vf3 dc back in 1998 i had so much hope for more amazing model 3 conversions! We should have received more than we did! Scudrace, daytona2, lost world arcade, star wars trilogy, etc.
They probably were considered too demanding technically for the DC. Why else would they re-release Daytona 1 for DC, instead of porting Daytona 2? Sega internally made a tech demo of Scud Race for DC, but the port wasn't completed.
@@Marcus_K Not exactly demanding because Dreamcast is more powerful than Model 3. The latter has the edge of RAM, one of the most expensive component at the time. Virtua On Oratorio Tangram Dreamcast version has a Model 3 mode unlocked as you complete the game. Daytona 2 can be easily done on Dreamcast when taking advantage of the hardware and looking at Crazy Taxi as an example. So the issue is mainly internal politics back then,
@@Tippotipo Fighting Vipers 2 on DC has less complex arenas, lower geometry detail overall and lower-resolution textures compared to the model 3 version. Racing games with many cars on screen need more hardware power than 1-vs-1 fighting games. Sega Rally 2 ended up being the only model 3 racing game that was ported to DC. Model 3 had some advanced features like multi-sample anti-aliasing, which home consoles didn't get until the PS3-Xbox360 gen.
Despite the more popular fighters like Soul Calibur and DOA2 gaining greater acclaim on Dreamcast, i returned to VF3 TB more often as a single player gamer. The AI is compelling and the vibe is pure zen even though I am not a high level player.
@@VideoGameEsoterica I got my DC as a Japan import at launch, so there was no Soul Calibur or DOA2 to compare it to, so VF3tb was the supreme king of fighters (sorry SNK :)) back then. And while it looked better, Soul Calibur wasn't even in the same ballpark gameplay wise. But DOA2 got pretty close and looked better than both of them combined.
@@VideoGameEsoterica all three of them were INSANELY better looking than any home console fighting game before them or for next 1.5 years, in some cases more like 2.5 years because PS2's first full year of titles were not more impressive than Soul Caliber graphically. In hindsight we can nitpick details, but at the time it was just people who got the greatest system of all time and bleeding edge arcade tech at home for just $199 (in late 90s money, that'd be like a $110 console today) and a bunch of fools who got conned waiting years for PS2's mostly false promises.
I remember people nit picking the Dreamcast version. All these year later, they look basically the same to me. We didn't know how good we had it back then.
If you don’t stop and look for differences you’d never know they were there. Compared to the VF2 Model 2 vs Saturn comparison where it’s obviously wholly different
Sega says that VF 2 on Saturn was a better conversation than VF3 on DC. VF 2 got like an 85 percent from Sega while VF3 got a 75 or 78 percent from Sega in a game pro interview
Dreamcast's textures are way more compressed, look at the brick wall under the fence or the mountain on the Sumo stage at 4:59, cloth movement is better on model 3 too (look at how Lau's suit flows). I think there were some other missing details like less polygons on characters and backgrounds (like Jacky's skyscraper stage and things like no moon lighting/glow on the beach stage etc)
Let remind that RAM was the most expensive part of the hardware back then which is why Dreamcast used vector quantization compression technique. Its arcade counterpart Naomi can easily handle such textures having more RAM than Model 3 as demonstrated on both Virtua On Oratorio Tangram and Virtua Striker 2001.
This game, like the Sega Rally 2 port, is a case where the Dreamcast is technically doing things the Model 3 board could not do. The Dreamcast was doing more 'accurate' lighting (by comparison) in some cases. At times the result is less saturated, muted colors and visuals. In a comparison where the Model 3 visuals are the original/standard, the Dreamcast's port does match up. As seen in other DC titles (Crazy Taxi, F355 Ferrari game) the console is capable of producing the same saturated style of graphics; in this case(and more so with Sega Rally 2) I think the developers chose to go with a technical showcase, than port accuracy.
I played a lot of VF 3TB on the Dreamcast when it came out, and I don't remember anyone saying it was bad in that era. Frankly it was amazing to have that close of a port at home.
Agree, it's something that was created in the past few years. It was bleeding edge arcade at home like never before on a console that launched at $110 in today's dollars...insane tech.
You really did a good job getting both the Arcade and Dreamcast videos looking right Both look exactly how I remembered back in arcades and the first time I ever played VF3 on Dreamcast and I thought this looks different As time went on I forgot how the arcade looked and got use to the Dreamcast version This video really brings me back You've just reminded me to check out Like a Dragon Infinite Wealth to try out VF3tb on there!!
I still remember vividly seeing this game in person at the arcades, especially Jeffrey's stage, and losing my mind. That stage, wven today, is mind blowing goodness!
Hmm, The background layer isn’t random as such, you get the OG stage background by default when you play single character mode. And when you play team battle 3-5character mode you get the updated backgrounds by default. You can hold start before/during you select a stage on Vs mode to get the other version (3 or 3tb) background stage. And if you hold start and let the stage select timer run out you get the dural version of the stage (but I think 2of the stages do not have a dural “version”)
I've always thought that the DC version was unfairly maligned. Is it arcade perfect? No. Could it have been better? Probably. Was it damn good for a launch title and a port of a game considered to be a graphical revolution only a couple of years earlier? Yes! The funny thing is, just a few years earlier people would have killed for a port of VF2 as close as this was.
All my friends were into Tekken when VF3 came out but I loved playing it on Dreamcast. I actually picked up an arcade stick just to play this game on Dreamcast!
I think the false perception came from Soul Calibur on Dreamcast being such a stunning upgrade over the arcade and jam-packed with bonus features, the relatively mild VF3tb was seen as a "low effort" port. That said I prefer the Model 3 as it has more defined shadow contrast (especially on stairs) - the Dreamcast version always looked very flatly lit by comparison.
Sarah versus Jeffrey is model three footage only because it says insert coin lol. Thanks for covering this virtua fighter three is still expensive as a board, but I’d love to own it one day.
I was making some direct RGB capture video on my old channel of VF3 when I was confused and thought during the attract sequence that the game was interlaced, but its just an effect of imitating interlaced mode through progressice mode 😂 I love that startech clone of the much more expensive Micomsoft card
love how hats fall off and how high some of the levels are, its almost like a fatality if you can knock someone off, hopefully they bring back some of these features from vf3-4 to vf6, I also like how some of the maps are uneven, given you some slight Hight advantage.
According to an old article in a game magazine (don't remember which), the Dreamcast port had the same number of polygons per character as the arcade version, but the skin mesh tech was "different" which I assume is the reason for the stiffer cloth movement and the "missing" chunk in Shun Di's leg. There's also lower texture resolution in some of the backgrounds IIRC (the great wall stage). I still wonder how many polygons were being displayed per frame, and whether the game ever really hit 1 million triangles per second. There's conflicting information, ranging from 3000 triangles per character to 5000. The latter was stated by Sega's president, which if true would indicate 900,000 PPS.
I recently modded a Dreamcast with a gdemu. I'm also going back to play the Virtua fighter games because I didn't get into them growing up. So far, I'm really liking vf3
I've always found they both look very close & it's hard to tell which is which, I still think the stages look really nice, when I first saw it in the arcade I loved how the character models looked a lot more chunky and stronger than the previous virtua fighters, and the stages just look very sureal like out of a dream
For me the model 3 version has always just looked a lot sharper and more vibrant, it has a crispness and colorfulness to it that the DC version lacks. I owned the DC version back in the day and while I thought it was an ok port, I honestly thought it could have been a bit better. I always wished that SEGA would have ported it themselves instead of outsourcing to Genki.
Esooooterica. I keep catching these shortly after launch haha. I'm excited to see this one though. I didn't get into Virtua Fighter until they crossed over with Dead or Alive 5. Since then VF5 and VF2 have been some of my favorites. Despite my unwavering devotion to the Dreamcast.... Never actually played VF3.
@@VideoGameEsoterica I swear to god, I just booted it up on my RPMini, and THE FIRST FIGHT, I inadvertently fell off the same stage's roof on round 3. (I was using Jackie though). the odds of that lol 10/10 rating on this saturday morning.
Hi! 🙂 Virtua Fighter 3 on Dreamcast and a good conversion for me it's not the ugly duckling 😇 On the other hand yes, Dead or Alive, Last Bronx, VF2 Sega Saturn vs Sega Model 2, yes there it is an interstellar abyss 😬
To me the DC version felt like a slight re-vision of the arcade versionD? As in the DC version played slightly faster, like 1-2% and the hits while juggled properties were slightly increased, as in the character getting juggled with hits would get “heavier” slightly quicker on DC then the arcade, on DC if you get 6hits the character drops like lead. I’m not sure if that was for balancing-gameplay? But it helps Aoi and slightly nerfs kage, pai, lau on their juggle combos.
Regarding the "third party" team (Genki) who did this conversion, they were in fact ex- AM2 members; also, Yo Suzuki himself was checking the entire project. The problems with this conversion were mainly two: 1) the entire conversion was handled in just 6 months, pretty rushed to be available at jap DC release in Dec 98' (since you spoke about SR2, the DC conversion was done in just THREE months AND using the awful custom Windows CE, hence the quality issues; 2) the were next to no DC SDK available at the time, the had to spoil hw themselves. All in all they did a pretty good job imho.
It's a great port by Genki just a shame AM2 didn't do it. I remember a glitch with Shun Boat that if you stand at the edge of the boat with Taka-Arashi the boat would tip over and spin fast on the Dreamcast version.
I always had problems playing VF3 on my DC. I had to return the game twice. The fact they couldn't be bothered to port their own flagship fighter and rely on a 3rd party studio, even knowing what Namco and Tecmo were cooking up, is absolutely mind boggling and dare I say lazy. It's sad really. At the time of release in arcades, VF3 was quite possibly the best looking game in the world. Producing DC level graphics when Tekken 2 was hitting PS1. It just got fully eclipsed during Dreamcast's release by Soul Calibur and Dead or Alive 2.
I remember back in the day that the negativity towards VF3 on Dreamcast came mostly from people comparing it to Soul Calibur rather than the arcade version of VF3. And I think over time, the negativity just kind of stuck to the game, even though it really wasn't warranted.
With Soul Calibur plenty of people preferred the graphics and gameplay to VF3. VF series never caught in US like Japan because of the nuances. With VF2 I think it actually looked quite a bit better than Tekken 2 both in arcades and on Saturn, but I also think it had more pick up and play appeal for American gamers.
I used to play the arcade port back in the day. When my local gaming shop imported the Dreamcast and games such as VF3 I was super excited, believing that it would have been a perfect or a near perfect port. And... I was hugely disappointed. Excluding the watered down visuals, but the gameplay. It wasn't any fun nor interesting to play with. Considering that Sega a handful of years prior gave us Fighter's Megamix, which was exceptionally fun, I was genuinely puzzled how did they managed to deliver such a letdown.
I wish an expert did these comparisons. Because a lot of the issues with the Dreamcast port was gameplay and combos not working correctly. Not an issue for Japan who mostly played in arcade. But huge issues for anyone wanting to run VF3 tournaments in the USA and needed to rely on consoles. Dreamcast had a bunch of ports of fighting games that looked fun visually but were pretty much uncompetitive. No one ran tournaments on the Dreamcast port of 3s or Alpha 3 either
When it comes to the visuals, this is like comparing modern day Xbox Series S to Ps5 games. There are differences but if you aren't looking too closely, it can be very difficult to tell at a glance. That to me is a sign of a good port.
I'm a little surprised you didn't cover the subway station stage. While the Model 3 version has legible textures on signs in the background, the DC version's signs look like N64 blurry textures. It's painfully obvious with the subway station sign right above the stairs that you can see when the round starts. This was the texture monster console, so seeing N64 textures was surprising. Also, your Flycast is dropping frames. Maybe try Redream. Yeah, you've got to pay a few bucks to unlock high resolution, but I've found it to be way beyond worth it.
Virtua Fighter 3 was good, but I still was so much into the second installment that I thought it was its finest VGE. Not a bad game at all, but I just was so much into VF2.
This is much closer to the arcade than Sega Rally 2 was, and even Virtua Fighter 2 on the Saturn as well made more concessions, but was praised as a great arcade port.
That's how they ended up with VF Kids in HD: it runs in a higher resolution than _Megamix._ In terms of gameplay, VFK is the best version on the Saturn, and nobody is willing to admit it today.
I'm unsure what the potential of the Dreamcast was. I was watching Scud Race on Model 3 and thought no way the Dreamcast could handle this perfectly. The VRAM that Model 3 has to make nice textures has been mentioned before to explain why the textures look great. I was happy with VF3TB. It was puzzling why AM2 didn't handle it and had Genki do it.
I recall Model 3 being 496 x 384 ~ 640 x 480 at most. I think that certain parts of the characters somewhat didn't look quite right on DC, but overall it is not a bad port. People call it bad port coz VF3 was released 1996 on Arcades, and Dreamcast -version did not look really much if any better despite newer hardware. Also, before release, when it was first shown to the press, it did kind of look like a bad port. But they eventually fixed issues.
This was still a really good port despite a few hiccups, it fell into the same vein as VF2 on Saturn though in my opinion especially with timing. VF2 was released in the the Saturn's infancy yet was kinda rushed because of the 32-bit war with PS1, given enough time it would've been able to reach the fidelity of say, Last Bronx on Saturn. Looked to be likewise with VF3 and Dreamcast vs. PS2. Dont let the perfect be the enemy of the good though, both were great.
I think this is an incredible port! Denki did a phenomenal job porting VF3. I think it looks near identical to the original and honestly at first glace. It looks the same. Sure there are a ton of tiny details that are different. However despite the really small details that frankly, you need to look at both versions side by side. They look identical. This is a testament of both Model 3 being an arcade board WAY ahead of it's time and Dreamcast being able to replicate such a high end arcade board at a fraction of the cost not too long after.
Definitely the worst port ever, same as VF4 on PS2. People have been waiting over 20 years to finally play the arcade hd versions of these games. Unfortunately Sega doesn't give a damn about them. Only an emulator or a small windowed SD version in the latest Yakuza.
@ While Yakuza is a great game. There's times where I want an arcade collection or them to restart Sega Ages. Like come on! I get you like the Yakuza games but sometimes. Maybe I don't want to pay $60 just to play my favorite arcade games inside a game. Yes I do think that's a cool novelty in a great game. There's times where I don't have time to play a massive game and just want to play a quick Model 2 or 3 game. I think it be smart to have both options.
I have read people left and right for years, complaining about the way the DC version plays. Same as they complain about MK on the SNES not playing like the arcade (unlike the MegaDrive/Genesis version).
1:28 The textures are always twice or three times worse everywhere, just look at the wall. Indeed theres also less shadows like we could clearly see on the stairs. 3:35 the much smaller textures are easy to notice here and it's fun seeing the shadows completely choked and messed up with that dented effect for no reason. As for the skybox difference, few knows that there is a difference between the occidental and the japanese versions since they were often a little bit more polished. Given how Soulcalibur looked on that same console a full year later I never liked that VF3 port which looks like they have done the bare minimum just for the Dreamcast launch event. Dead or Alive 2 later confirmed how embarrassing VF3 already was. Ironically Namco threw more love at the Dreamcast than SEGA did. Sega's dignity was saved with VF4 however.
It’s def a bare minimum version but since it’s also a launch title you see how that happens. The games that came later just had that extra development time to flesh the content out
Kinda surprised SEGA didn't publish VF3 onto the Arcade on Naomi on the way, given the target for home audience on the Dreamcast. Surely would have given them a cheaper package and easy sell update to operators. With NAOMI being around in 98 and VF4 not coming out to the later NAOMI 2 in 2001, some missed opportunity to push the VF franchise in the arcade
@ It would have been much cheaper then a model3 kit , i'd imagine. For those that didn't get a huge RP sega cab and/or a model 3 already A lot of 90s games did incremental game updates over two different board generations . Also Capcom and Midway were bombarding operators with small incremental games. When competition was hot, you didn't want to miss having the latest game with a new character in your arcade :)
0:44 The logos help because sometimes people like to skip around in a video, and skip directly to the comparisons, which might skip over your explanation of which version is which.
Skipping around drives me nuts haha. So I don’t do things to aid people in doing that. Including time stamps. Yes it’s evil of me 🤣 but I want it watched in the order I presented it. But I know that makes me the odd man out
@@VideoGameEsoterica It shouldn't be about what you want, it's about what your viewers want. Most people don't watch YT videos from beginning to end. Check your video statistics for proof. A lot of people check out after just a minute or two, especially if the video is boring.
This wasn't a bad port. It was pretty much identical to the Model 3, despite being an outsourced project that was ready when the DC launched. The main problem was that VF3 was 3 years old when it came out in the west. And other problem was that Soul Calibur was out as well, which had a ton of content on top of looking more appealing. VF3 was just there. Besides all this, VF3 was never all that popular. Our arcade carried the original version in 1997 or so. And no one bat an eye at it. I mean, it was the most impressive game I had ever seen at that point, I couldn't believe what I saw. Everyone gathered around Tekken 3 instead, and yeah it was more fun to play and time released characters would appear over the weeks.
IF the Dreamcast had more RAM and VRAM it could have had higher res textures on par with the arcade, other than that no Model 3 game should have any issues running and looking better on the Dreamcast.
Regardless, the Dreamcast could have done a pixel perfect port of VF3, as evidenced by the port of DOA2. Someone extracted the Dreamcast DOA2 character models and determined that they were composed of over 8000 polygons each (no different from the models used in the cutscenes). Even their fingernails were modeled with geometry. And DOA2's backgrounds are clearly more complex than those in VF3. The skin mesh is also superior.
I'd suggest two reasons as to why VF3tb on the Dreamcast got so much flack back in the day. 1. While it's by no means a bad port, if you compare its impact with that of the VF2 port on the Saturn, it seems much weaker. VF2 on the Saturn really was spectacular so I think fans were expecting to be equally wowed with VF3 on the Dreamcast. When it turned out to be good, but not groundbreaking port, people were disappointed. 2. Prior to the Dreamcast's launch there were a lot of rumours that AM2 were working on a VF3 port to the Saturn that was not only amazing but might even include some bespoke hardware enhancement. Whether or not any of this was credible, the fact this was shelved and no one ever saw it lead people to speculate the Saturn port would have been better. Partly because AM2 were making it themselves and I think as we all know the unreleased game we imagine will always be better than what actually is released....
How did you not mention the most obvious advantages of the Model 3? Texture resolution is higher on Model 3. The backgrounds have way higher polygon counts on Model 3.
The japanese DC launch version was worse than the U.S. version, which included some fixes. The training mode and shadow quality were improved and a versus mode was added. I had the imported japanese version and was a bit disappointed by it, but not by much. It's unfortunate that the groundbreaking water and sand particle effects were reduced in the home port. VF3 was still a fine-looking game, but it was three years old by 1999, which showed in comparison to Soul Calibur and DoA 2 on DC.
i always thought that the model 3 ran a inter medium resolution of 496 x 384 making it not 240p but not quite up there with naomi/DCs 640 x 480p. i remember seeing the m3 house of the dead in a arcade once and thought how blocky it looked compared to the DC port. VF3 just looks more polished on the m3 ,, i think some of those early DC ports were a little of, but the DC soon catched up and took over the M3s abilities
They never surpassed the music of VF1. And the creative team never had a shared version of what the distinctive sound of VF was supposed to be (after the first episode). VF4 is an instructive example, IMO, with two different soundtracks.
All of the games on the PS2 (including the bizarre "10th anniversary" experiment) reflect civil war around the boardroom table. They couldn't agree on how jumping and dodging mechanics should work, so you get three different interpretations, etc.
Such an odd port. I remember reading that Sega wasn't even sure they wanted to port the game at all, then they just handed it off to Genki at the last minute. IIRC, it was a 6 month conversion. DC version definitely lost texture resolution. Last clip is Model 3.
The arcade version has better textures and colours, the DC textures seam reduced in resolution and the colour has been reduced, good example is the 3tb version of the Great Wall of china with pinkish sky, the difference is the sky seams cropped on the DC version and lacking in “blue”
Anyone any idea y fir the last few versions of vf5 including the new update they dont seem to be able to fix the horrible sound fxs?its like a mix of high quality fxs with way lower quality fxs peppered in
It was completely bested by other fighting games. The biggest letdown was it coming out a month AFTER Soul Calibur in the US and looking and playing worse with the longest load times I had experienced early in the Dreamcast's life. VF3 deserved better. I'd expect an enhanced port that's better than arcade. The arcade game was old at this point
IMO, people were harsh on the DC port of VF3. The differences from the arcade aren't appreciably bigger than the difference between the real VF3 arcade vs Model 3 emulator lol
After Soul Calibur came Dead or Alive 2 . VF 3tb just looked dated out the gate compared to them both. It just couldn’t catch a break in the 3D fighter space.
Shun-Di's head doesn't turn red in the US version of the Dreamcast game as some weird form of censorship. Play the Japanese version and you'll see it turn red.
I feel like an genki did an OK job with the graphics but it didn't feel like the arcade, I don't have fond memories as it's one of the few arcade fighters that was locked to PAL 50Hz on the European version, (DOA2 and Soul Calibre both had 60hz options) overall it wasn't my Favourite... Fighting Vipers 2 is worth a play however
Always been saying this. The only weak port is VF4 on the PS2. That is worse in every metric. Dreamcast is running a higher render resolution at 640x480 vs 496x384. Dreamcast has less ram compared to Sega Model 3 but is more powerful in every other metric. Only Model 3 Step 2/2.1 are slightly more powerful. Naomi 1 is more powerful than ever Model 3.
@@VideoGameEsotericaMeanwhile VF4 on PS2 runs at lower resolution, lower polygon count (about half), lower quality textures, missing or lower quality effects and is hailed as arcade perfect. By the way to answer your question it's VF3 arcade edition as Jeffrey stage is only during daylight in VF3.
Def some background changes in the Dreamcast port. But if you pay attention to the fight you’d never notice. Which is I’m sure what the devs were hoping for
Virtua Fighter 3 isn’t in the same ball park as that Sega Rally 2 port and isn't really a bad port at all. As mentioned by many others, its issue was more to do with Soul Calibur and then Dead or Alive 2 than itself. Whilst I enjoyed VF3, for me I was never as big a fan of it as I was with VF2 before it and certainly not VF4 and outside of the original is the entry I return to the least, whether that be the arcade or console version
I don't care too much about the graphics but some people didn't like the the new game play mechanic of uneven ground surfaces. Also I think the game somewhat contributed to the dreamcasat's failure as it's the only mainline game in the series to sell less than 1 million copies and was less popular than soul calibur with virtua fighter basically being sega's flagship franchise in the absence of s 3D sonic game on the saturn (in terms of sales nights into dreams sold less than VF 2 ) the next generation DC game could have done better.
You just had to make a video when I was playing this on my Dreamcast- lol. But yeah I think it’s definitely weaker then what was shown with Virtua fighter 2 on Saturn which does disappoint me ): Wish someone would make a patch for this game. (Also yes i was using composite cables on my crt tv and it does look worse visually but resolution wise it looks really good)
@ yeah lmao. Only two Dreamcasts games i have on disc are test drive Le Mans and Virtua fighter 3 so it was probably easier to get that timed up then normal lol.
@@VideoGameEsoterica yeah. Virtua fighter 3 though is just fun, only issue is actually doing some of the moves sometimes. That d-pad on the Dreamcast isn’t the best but isn’t the worst, it’s still good but compared to the sega Saturn or sega Genesis d-pad oh boy it’s a difference.
They used different voice actors for VF3 than VF2: how can you cope with the difference in emphasis and intonation when Jacky says, "No way you can stop me", and "I'm faster than lightning"? The voices are SO MUCH WORSE in VF3... and yes, I just discovered this today, so forgive me for my "mind = blown" reaction.
Dude... DUDE... the voices in VF2 were so much better than VF3 and VF4... male and female, English and Japanese... "Hora hora hora!"... "Juu nin hai en dai oh!" @VideoGameEsoterica
Definitely the worst port ever, same as VF4 on PS2. People have been waiting over 20 years to finally play the arcade hd versions of these games. Unfortunately Sega doesn't give a damn about them. Only an emulator or a small windowed SD version in the latest Yakuza.
VF3tb's fault lies on Arcade Machine focus and not the console market too advanced for it to be ported to a less powerful console at it's time, Saturn and Sega's decision to not release Dreamcast internationally same date as Japan VF3tb was far ahead in 1996 arcade Soul Calibur was far ahead in 1998 VF3tb and SC1 release internationally at late 1999 was a disaster comparison for VF3tb in terms of cult classic following VF3tb is definitely the Third Strike of the series whereas Soul Calibur 2 would be the Third Strike of it's series as flowers for Genki, kami company right there
It wasn't a bad due the Dreamcast power, it was just a lazy port. In comparison to Soul Calibur or Dead or Alive, VF looks like a generation behind game.
There is still no decent way to play any of these: VF4 on the PS2 is terrible (both "vanilla" and "evolution"). Not an exaggeration: terrible. What SNK did with the Arcade Stick Pro: Sega should have done that for Virtua Fighter 1, 2 and 3. _Seriously._
VF3 situation cannot compare to Sega Rally 2 one. SR2 was made with WindowsCE and thats why its a horrible port, like all WindowsCE games are (we thank WindowsCE though for bringing emulators and homebrew on Dreamcast). VF3 could be a little better but ok, its still a great port on DC.
@ Virtua Cop 2 is a lighter and older game so its ok. For bigger stuff using WindowsCE was a mistake,it just couldn't utilize the full DC hardware.But again it left its mark to DC because through it we have the big homebrew scene.
@@MrYukawa Yeah the vast majority of them did, they just rushed this out to Market without implementing it. the PAL version is a BAD port. I imported the JAP version to play, and it comes with that cool Project Berkley disc.
@@VideoGameEsoterica What? Sir, arms and forearms are 2 separate pieces, they don't need to "bend"... jokes aside, look from 3:35, where it shows better(you can pause when Akira is shown in the entire screen).
Biggest problem with vf3 on dc was Soul Calibur.
It was a night and day contrast between the two
The amount of competition in the fighting game genre on the Dreamcast was crazy. I was playing so many fighting games from Capcom and SNK that I didn't even know about VF3 and SC at the time.
It was the height of fighting games IMO
Really put it into words!
Hi! 🙂
I Today, I prefer Soulcalibur on Namco System 12 🥰than on Dreamcast.
On Dreamcast there is too much smoothing on the character, and the filters in the background are even blurry.
On Namco System 12, there is indeed a lot of aliasing, but the color level, brightness and brilliance are excellent, especially when the extended JVS mode of the video options is selected, Video Sync Separate & Interlace with VGA Connector in 15khz
😊😉
Your focus is in the wrong place.
The Dreamcast port wasn't criticised for its visual translation, it was the GAMEPLAY.
The Dreamcast port just didn't play like the arcade, there was a problem with the ground bounce and the launch deterioration, which meant combos that would normally work in the arcade, would no longer work on the Dreamcast version.
For alot of people, that was problematic.
I have no idea why SEGA did not handle the port with their own internal development team, that's what caused the problems.
The only big visual issue I can think of are the shadows in the Japanese release of the game. (they were fixed for the overseas version)
@AfterBurnerTeirusu128 There's more than that.
The backgrounds took a huge polygon count hit and the textures were lower quality too.
To be fair, you really have to be looking and concentrating on these things to really know what you're looking for, to the naked eye the Dreamcast was visually a very good conversion.
I think the main criticism was that as the Dreamcast was technically a more updated version of the Model 3 architecture and was capable of better, the argument was that we should have gotten better.
Again, the gameplay for me was the bigger issue.
@@Longlostpuss Dreamcast has some feature advantages compared to Model3 and can make amazing looking games... but as far as raw polygon pushing power, it is at a substantial disadvantage, especially early SDK versions.
@@Longlostpuss "I think the main criticism was that as the Dreamcast was technically a more updated version of the Model 3 architecture and was capable of better, the argument was that we should have gotten better." The dreamcast is absolutely nothing like the Model 3, their architecture isnt even remotely similar. The dreamcast architecture is unlike just about any system I've ever worked on. The model 3 has an actual graphics processing unit to perform vertex transformations, the dreamcast does not. All vertex transformations are handled on the SH4 in the embedded FPU, meaning vertex transformations are hardware on the model 3 and software on the dreamcast. The Dreamcast has no real graphics processor, it uses a tile accelerator. Further, the entire rendering model is completely different. The Dreamcast uses deferred tile based rendering, which is a two step rendering process where polygons are binned into groups representing tiles on the screen buffer, then parallel accleration is performed to rasterize each tile separately. This is not at all how the model 3 works, which operates on what is basically a massively simplified shader model that we use today, albeit fixed function. It comes in a 20 or 30 core configuration to transform vertices in parallel, the dreamcast transforms a single polygon (3 vertices) in the SH4 fpu as it only has matrix registers for two matricies, one the transformation and the other 3 points on the polygon with 128-bit SIMD, all of which blocks CPU execution. The Model 3 can transform 40 or 60 vertices at once in parallel with the CPU since it's an entirely separate processor. Even the very basics of the hardware is different: Model 3 has a hardware depth buffer as a dedicated z-buffer, the dreamcast lacks one entirely. The Dreamcast architecture shares more in common with the N64 than the Model 3, I can't believe anybody would claim the Dreamcast is a "more updated version of the model 3 architecture" unless they'd never touched dreamcast programming before. TL;DR: The dreamcast and model 3 are about as different architectures as you can possibly imagine, and share almost no similarities except for the fact that they can both texture map polygons. They are top to bottom 100% different and neither derived from the other. This is not to claim that the dreamcast was inferior to the model 3, just entirely different. You are comparing apples and oranges and saying which one is louder. Your comparison doesn't make sense. You can blame the internet for this, so many people who have never touched the hardware they are talking about saying things they "heard" as fact. I could keep going on and on about their differences but what's the point? It should be obvious just spending a few moments getting a polygon on screen how vastly different the architectures are.
@@gabemorales7814 Goodness gracious, have you not heard of paragraphs dude?
I've never claimed to be a programmer or an expert, this is just what was being said at the time, so if that information is wrong, then blame the rumour mill.
Kinda shows what SEGA were up against, they were battling misinformation and mismanaged expectations as well as Sony I guess.
All too much in the end, but glad they reorganised and are now in a position to deliver the new Virtua Fighter we have all been waiting for since this one.
After playing vf3 dc back in 1998 i had so much hope for more amazing model 3 conversions! We should have received more than we did! Scudrace, daytona2, lost world arcade, star wars trilogy, etc.
Yes there were a ton of awesome Model 3 games we just never got on Dreamcast but were promised
They probably were considered too demanding technically for the DC. Why else would they re-release Daytona 1 for DC, instead of porting Daytona 2? Sega internally made a tech demo of Scud Race for DC, but the port wasn't completed.
The list of games we never got is almost as long as the list of games from Sega we did get
@@Marcus_K Not exactly demanding because Dreamcast is more powerful than Model 3. The latter has the edge of RAM, one of the most expensive component at the time. Virtua On Oratorio Tangram Dreamcast version has a Model 3 mode unlocked as you complete the game. Daytona 2 can be easily done on Dreamcast when taking advantage of the hardware and looking at Crazy Taxi as an example. So the issue is mainly internal politics back then,
@@Tippotipo Fighting Vipers 2 on DC has less complex arenas, lower geometry detail overall and lower-resolution textures compared to the model 3 version. Racing games with many cars on screen need more hardware power than 1-vs-1 fighting games. Sega Rally 2 ended up being the only model 3 racing game that was ported to DC. Model 3 had some advanced features like multi-sample anti-aliasing, which home consoles didn't get until the PS3-Xbox360 gen.
That was hilarious when Lau is doing his victory thing after winning the fight and falls off the roof
Haha I always find that hilarious
I wish SEGA ported SCUD Race, Daytona 2 and Virtua Fighter 4 😅
The game that will forever live in the giant shadow of Soul Calibur.
I mean Soul Calibur cast a pretty long shadow that’s for sure
Slightly less if they ported Virtua fighter 4.
Nah always preferred VF3TB, Sc got boring soon
Despite the more popular fighters like Soul Calibur and DOA2 gaining greater acclaim on Dreamcast, i returned to VF3 TB more often as a single player gamer. The AI is compelling and the vibe is pure zen even though I am not a high level player.
VF3 had a hard time because it was instantly compared to Soul Calibur and DOA 2 and those were both better looking games
@@VideoGameEsoterica I got my DC as a Japan import at launch, so there was no Soul Calibur or DOA2 to compare it to, so VF3tb was the supreme king of fighters (sorry SNK :)) back then. And while it looked better, Soul Calibur wasn't even in the same ballpark gameplay wise. But DOA2 got pretty close and looked better than both of them combined.
I did too. Got Sonic Adventure and VF3 in the spring of 1999 with my lawn moving summer job cash from the previous year
There was nearly a one year gapbetween vf3 and SC on.the Dreamcast.
@@VideoGameEsoterica all three of them were INSANELY better looking than any home console fighting game before them or for next 1.5 years, in some cases more like 2.5 years because PS2's first full year of titles were not more impressive than Soul Caliber graphically. In hindsight we can nitpick details, but at the time it was just people who got the greatest system of all time and bleeding edge arcade tech at home for just $199 (in late 90s money, that'd be like a $110 console today) and a bunch of fools who got conned waiting years for PS2's mostly false promises.
I remember people nit picking the Dreamcast version. All these year later, they look basically the same to me. We didn't know how good we had it back then.
If you don’t stop and look for differences you’d never know they were there. Compared to the VF2 Model 2 vs Saturn comparison where it’s obviously wholly different
Sega says that VF 2 on Saturn was a better conversation than VF3 on DC. VF 2 got like an 85 percent from Sega while VF3 got a 75 or 78 percent from Sega in a game pro interview
Dreamcast's textures are way more compressed, look at the brick wall under the fence or the mountain on the Sumo stage at 4:59, cloth movement is better on model 3 too (look at how Lau's suit flows). I think there were some other missing details like less polygons on characters and backgrounds (like Jacky's skyscraper stage and things like no moon lighting/glow on the beach stage etc)
When we see what Dreamcast could do in diff games / later years you really realize it’s a rushed port issue most likely
Let remind that RAM was the most expensive part of the hardware back then which is why Dreamcast used vector quantization compression technique. Its arcade counterpart Naomi can easily handle such textures having more RAM than Model 3 as demonstrated on both Virtua On Oratorio Tangram and Virtua Striker 2001.
This game, like the Sega Rally 2 port, is a case where the Dreamcast is technically doing things the Model 3 board could not do. The Dreamcast was doing more 'accurate' lighting (by comparison) in some cases. At times the result is less saturated, muted colors and visuals.
In a comparison where the Model 3 visuals are the original/standard, the Dreamcast's port does match up.
As seen in other DC titles (Crazy Taxi, F355 Ferrari game) the console is capable of producing the same saturated style of graphics; in this case(and more so with Sega Rally 2) I think the developers chose to go with a technical showcase, than port accuracy.
Yes it was more of a “hey look what we can do” situation vs “make it 1:1”
I played a lot of VF 3TB on the Dreamcast when it came out, and I don't remember anyone saying it was bad in that era. Frankly it was amazing to have that close of a port at home.
Yes it’s more future negativity than release date
@Zoyous a lot of ppl didn't like the game play mechanic of uneven ground surfaces and thought it was worse than VF 2 but not a bad game
Agree, it's something that was created in the past few years. It was bleeding edge arcade at home like never before on a console that launched at $110 in today's dollars...insane tech.
You really did a good job getting both the Arcade and Dreamcast videos looking right
Both look exactly how I remembered back in arcades and the first time I ever played VF3 on Dreamcast and I thought this looks different
As time went on I forgot how the arcade looked and got use to the Dreamcast version
This video really brings me back
You've just reminded me to check out Like a Dragon Infinite Wealth to try out VF3tb on there!!
It takes a minute but I try and make sure I give both platforms the best presentation possible so people can weigh the footage
@@VideoGameEsoterica I do prefer the look on Model 3 over Dreamcast but its probably because I played it in Arcades first
I still remember vividly seeing this game in person at the arcades, especially Jeffrey's stage, and losing my mind. That stage, wven today, is mind blowing goodness!
Yes it’s impressive what they could do in 96/98. It’s got charm that’s for sure
Seeing VF3 in the first six months or so it was in arcades was like witnessing true magic.
Hmm,
The background layer isn’t random as such, you get the OG stage background by default when you play single character mode. And when you play team battle 3-5character mode you get the updated backgrounds by default.
You can hold start before/during you select a stage on Vs mode to get the other version (3 or 3tb) background stage.
And if you hold start and let the stage select timer run out you get the dural version of the stage (but I think 2of the stages do not have a dural “version”)
I’ll have to give it a shot
I've always thought that the DC version was unfairly maligned. Is it arcade perfect? No. Could it have been better? Probably. Was it damn good for a launch title and a port of a game considered to be a graphical revolution only a couple of years earlier? Yes!
The funny thing is, just a few years earlier people would have killed for a port of VF2 as close as this was.
I’d agree it’s given an unfair shake. It’s better than you’d read it was
@@VideoGameEsoterica Total right!
Righting historical wrongs haha
All my friends were into Tekken when VF3 came out but I loved playing it on Dreamcast. I actually picked up an arcade stick just to play this game on Dreamcast!
Tekken was just the more popular franchise then. But while I enjoy Tekken I’ve always preferred VF
I think the false perception came from Soul Calibur on Dreamcast being such a stunning upgrade over the arcade and jam-packed with bonus features, the relatively mild VF3tb was seen as a "low effort" port. That said I prefer the Model 3 as it has more defined shadow contrast (especially on stairs) - the Dreamcast version always looked very flatly lit by comparison.
It suffers from launch title issues which is bare bones from an extra gameplay perspective. It’s VF 3. Nothing more, nothing less
Sarah versus Jeffrey is model three footage only because it says insert coin lol.
Thanks for covering this virtua fighter three is still expensive as a board, but I’d love to own it one day.
Haha finally someone noticed the obvious
I was making some direct RGB capture video on my old channel of VF3 when I was confused and thought during the attract sequence that the game was interlaced, but its just an effect of imitating interlaced mode through progressice mode 😂 I love that startech clone of the much more expensive Micomsoft card
Haha odd effect
love how hats fall off and how high some of the levels are, its almost like a fatality if you can knock someone off, hopefully they bring back some of these features from vf3-4 to vf6, I also like how some of the maps are uneven, given you some slight Hight advantage.
Oh yeah some of those falls are not survivable
Can't wait for you to do this for VF4
Soonish
According to an old article in a game magazine (don't remember which), the Dreamcast port had the same number of polygons per character as the arcade version, but the skin mesh tech was "different" which I assume is the reason for the stiffer cloth movement and the "missing" chunk in Shun Di's leg. There's also lower texture resolution in some of the backgrounds IIRC (the great wall stage).
I still wonder how many polygons were being displayed per frame, and whether the game ever really hit 1 million triangles per second. There's conflicting information, ranging from 3000 triangles per character to 5000. The latter was stated by Sega's president, which if true would indicate 900,000 PPS.
I’m sure someone could dig apart the game and say how many polys were on screen at once. I’ve heard so many numbers
I recently modded a Dreamcast with a gdemu. I'm also going back to play the Virtua fighter games because I didn't get into them growing up. So far, I'm really liking vf3
VF3 is the pinnacle of the “early” VF style. 4 and 5 would expand on it in a good way but VF3 feels like the best game of that earlier style
I've always found they both look very close & it's hard to tell which is which, I still think the stages look really nice, when I first saw it in the arcade I loved how the character models looked a lot more chunky and stronger than the previous virtua fighters, and the stages just look very sureal like out of a dream
I do love how half the stages basically seem like they’d never actually exist in real life
@8:45 Omg this reminds me of SoulCalibur 2. I would always try to somehow fall out of the ring after I'd already won.
Haha it’s the funniest way to win a match and have a laughable win replay
For me the model 3 version has always just looked a lot sharper and more vibrant, it has a crispness and colorfulness to it that the DC version lacks. I owned the DC version back in the day and while I thought it was an ok port, I honestly thought it could have been a bit better. I always wished that SEGA would have ported it themselves instead of outsourcing to Genki.
Model 3 in general is going to always look crisper it seems
Esooooterica.
I keep catching these shortly after launch haha.
I'm excited to see this one though.
I didn't get into Virtua Fighter until they crossed over with Dead or Alive 5.
Since then VF5 and VF2 have been some of my favorites.
Despite my unwavering devotion to the Dreamcast....
Never actually played VF3.
Well now you’ve def gotta go play VF3!
@@VideoGameEsoterica I swear to god, I just booted it up on my RPMini, and THE FIRST FIGHT, I inadvertently fell off the same stage's roof on round 3. (I was using Jackie though).
the odds of that lol
10/10 rating on this saturday morning.
Hi! 🙂
Virtua Fighter 3 on Dreamcast and a good conversion for me it's not the ugly duckling 😇
On the other hand yes, Dead or Alive, Last Bronx, VF2 Sega Saturn vs Sega Model 2, yes there it is an interstellar abyss 😬
To me the DC version felt like a slight re-vision of the arcade versionD? As in the DC version played slightly faster, like 1-2% and the hits while juggled properties were slightly increased, as in the character getting juggled with hits would get “heavier” slightly quicker on DC then the arcade, on DC if you get 6hits the character drops like lead.
I’m not sure if that was for balancing-gameplay? But it helps Aoi and slightly nerfs kage, pai, lau on their juggle combos.
Regarding the "third party" team (Genki) who did this conversion, they were in fact ex- AM2 members; also, Yo Suzuki himself was checking the entire project. The problems with this conversion were mainly two: 1) the entire conversion was handled in just 6 months, pretty rushed to be available at jap DC release in Dec 98' (since you spoke about SR2, the DC conversion was done in just THREE months AND using the awful custom Windows CE, hence the quality issues; 2) the were next to no DC SDK available at the time, the had to spoil hw themselves. All in all they did a pretty good job imho.
Sega was late to the party with a good SDK
@@VideoGameEsoterica Same BIG error done with the SS....
It's a great port by Genki just a shame AM2 didn't do it. I remember a glitch with Shun Boat that if you stand at the edge of the boat with Taka-Arashi the boat would tip over and spin fast on the Dreamcast version.
Haha yes I tried to get it to happen but it wouldn’t. His weight was incorrect
I always had problems playing VF3 on my DC. I had to return the game twice. The fact they couldn't be bothered to port their own flagship fighter and rely on a 3rd party studio, even knowing what Namco and Tecmo were cooking up, is absolutely mind boggling and dare I say lazy.
It's sad really. At the time of release in arcades, VF3 was quite possibly the best looking game in the world. Producing DC level graphics when Tekken 2 was hitting PS1. It just got fully eclipsed during Dreamcast's release by Soul Calibur and Dead or Alive 2.
There was just so much to make on Dreamcast for at or near launch Sega had to farm some of it out to hit target dates
I remember back in the day that the negativity towards VF3 on Dreamcast came mostly from people comparing it to Soul Calibur rather than the arcade version of VF3. And I think over time, the negativity just kind of stuck to the game, even though it really wasn't warranted.
It was def a big contrast in style between VF and SC
With Soul Calibur plenty of people preferred the graphics and gameplay to VF3. VF series never caught in US like Japan because of the nuances. With VF2 I think it actually looked quite a bit better than Tekken 2 both in arcades and on Saturn, but I also think it had more pick up and play appeal for American gamers.
thats amazing that the port is so close to the original it looks amazing. no way i can guess on that screen.
It is a very close comparison
I used to play the arcade port back in the day. When my local gaming shop imported the Dreamcast and games such as VF3 I was super excited, believing that it would have been a perfect or a near perfect port.
And... I was hugely disappointed. Excluding the watered down visuals, but the gameplay. It wasn't any fun nor interesting to play with.
Considering that Sega a handful of years prior gave us Fighter's Megamix, which was exceptionally fun, I was genuinely puzzled how did they managed to deliver such a letdown.
It’s such a simple port but I think it does effectively translate the gameplay
I wish an expert did these comparisons. Because a lot of the issues with the Dreamcast port was gameplay and combos not working correctly. Not an issue for Japan who mostly played in arcade. But huge issues for anyone wanting to run VF3 tournaments in the USA and needed to rely on consoles.
Dreamcast had a bunch of ports of fighting games that looked fun visually but were pretty much uncompetitive. No one ran tournaments on the Dreamcast port of 3s or Alpha 3 either
Yes I can’t speak for every competitive angle
When it comes to the visuals, this is like comparing modern day Xbox Series S to Ps5 games. There are differences but if you aren't looking too closely, it can be very difficult to tell at a glance. That to me is a sign of a good port.
The fun and gameplay came over intact. Which at the end is all that matters
I'm a little surprised you didn't cover the subway station stage. While the Model 3 version has legible textures on signs in the background, the DC version's signs look like N64 blurry textures. It's painfully obvious with the subway station sign right above the stairs that you can see when the round starts. This was the texture monster console, so seeing N64 textures was surprising. Also, your Flycast is dropping frames. Maybe try Redream. Yeah, you've got to pay a few bucks to unlock high resolution, but I've found it to be way beyond worth it.
In ten min I can’t hit every example but I try to include enough.
Virtua Fighter 3 was good, but I still was so much into the second installment that I thought it was its finest VGE. Not a bad game at all, but I just was so much into VF2.
Should check out the 4pm vid that just went live. I know you’ll love it
I agree with you. VF3 is an excellent port and the only problem is the lack of extra content/features.
Yes it’s legit just an arcade port with a few tiny additions
@@VideoGameEsoterica
Yes? Haha
This is much closer to the arcade than Sega Rally 2 was, and even Virtua Fighter 2 on the Saturn as well made more concessions, but was praised as a great arcade port.
Yes this is a night and day port compared to what Sega Rally 2 was
Wasn't Sega trying to port Virtua Fighter 3 to the Saturn at one point? It was going to use a special RAM cart or something to get it to run.
Yes that was the original plan. Lockheed was designing an add on
That's how they ended up with VF Kids in HD: it runs in a higher resolution than _Megamix._ In terms of gameplay, VFK is the best version on the Saturn, and nobody is willing to admit it today.
I'm unsure what the potential of the Dreamcast was. I was watching Scud Race on Model 3 and thought no way the Dreamcast could handle this perfectly. The VRAM that Model 3 has to make nice textures has been mentioned before to explain why the textures look great. I was happy with VF3TB. It was puzzling why AM2 didn't handle it and had Genki do it.
I think Sega was just jammed up with development for the launch and had to get third parties to help get the work done
GTA3
I recall Model 3 being 496 x 384 ~ 640 x 480 at most.
I think that certain parts of the characters somewhat didn't look quite right on DC, but overall it is not a bad port.
People call it bad port coz VF3 was released 1996 on Arcades, and Dreamcast -version did not look really much if any better despite newer hardware.
Also, before release, when it was first shown to the press, it did kind of look like a bad port. But they eventually fixed issues.
Yes it suffers from being a two year old game at launch
This was still a really good port despite a few hiccups, it fell into the same vein as VF2 on Saturn though in my opinion especially with timing. VF2 was released in the the Saturn's infancy yet was kinda rushed because of the 32-bit war with PS1, given enough time it would've been able to reach the fidelity of say, Last Bronx on Saturn. Looked to be likewise with VF3 and Dreamcast vs. PS2. Dont let the perfect be the enemy of the good though, both were great.
Yes it’s all the fun of the arcade version with just some slight downgrades here and there
I think this is an incredible port! Denki did a phenomenal job porting VF3. I think it looks near identical to the original and honestly at first glace. It looks the same. Sure there are a ton of tiny details that are different. However despite the really small details that frankly, you need to look at both versions side by side. They look identical. This is a testament of both Model 3 being an arcade board WAY ahead of it's time and Dreamcast being able to replicate such a high end arcade board at a fraction of the cost not too long after.
For the time they had to get it ready it’s quite good
Definitely the worst port ever, same as VF4 on PS2.
People have been waiting over 20 years to finally play the arcade hd versions of these games.
Unfortunately Sega doesn't give a damn about them.
Only an emulator or a small windowed SD version in the latest Yakuza.
At least we have perfect VF4 on emulation
@ While Yakuza is a great game. There's times where I want an arcade collection or them to restart Sega Ages. Like come on! I get you like the Yakuza games but sometimes. Maybe I don't want to pay $60 just to play my favorite arcade games inside a game. Yes I do think that's a cool novelty in a great game. There's times where I don't have time to play a massive game and just want to play a quick Model 2 or 3 game. I think it be smart to have both options.
Thank god for emulation
I have read people left and right for years, complaining about the way the DC version plays. Same as they complain about MK on the SNES not playing like the arcade (unlike the MegaDrive/Genesis version).
Same. And I don’t get it. It’s the same solid gameplay.
@VideoGameEsoterica it must be just a few of us that keep defending Genki 😂
1:28 The textures are always twice or three times worse everywhere, just look at the wall. Indeed theres also less shadows like we could clearly see on the stairs.
3:35 the much smaller textures are easy to notice here and it's fun seeing the shadows completely choked and messed up with that dented effect for no reason.
As for the skybox difference, few knows that there is a difference between the occidental and the japanese versions since they were often a little bit more polished.
Given how Soulcalibur looked on that same console a full year later I never liked that VF3 port which looks like they have done the bare minimum just for the Dreamcast launch event.
Dead or Alive 2 later confirmed how embarrassing VF3 already was. Ironically Namco threw more love at the Dreamcast than SEGA did. Sega's dignity was saved with VF4 however.
It’s def a bare minimum version but since it’s also a launch title you see how that happens. The games that came later just had that extra development time to flesh the content out
Kinda surprised SEGA didn't publish VF3 onto the Arcade on Naomi on the way, given the target for home audience on the Dreamcast.
Surely would have given them a cheaper package and easy sell update to operators.
With NAOMI being around in 98 and VF4 not coming out to the later NAOMI 2 in 2001, some missed opportunity to push the VF franchise in the arcade
Must just not have been worth the effort considering they were actively working on VF4
@@VideoGameEsoterica The work on the Dreamcast port of TB would have been usable for NAOMI with minimal change.
Yes but manufacture the carts and that costs money. When VF3 already existed in arcades what operator wants to buy the game again?
@ It would have been much cheaper then a model3 kit , i'd imagine.
For those that didn't get a huge RP sega cab and/or a model 3 already
A lot of 90s games did incremental game updates over two different board generations .
Also Capcom and Midway were bombarding operators with small incremental games. When competition was hot, you didn't want to miss having the latest game with a new character
in your arcade :)
0:44 The logos help because sometimes people like to skip around in a video, and skip directly to the comparisons, which might skip over your explanation of which version is which.
Skipping around drives me nuts haha. So I don’t do things to aid people in doing that. Including time stamps. Yes it’s evil of me 🤣 but I want it watched in the order I presented it. But I know that makes me the odd man out
@@VideoGameEsoterica It shouldn't be about what you want, it's about what your viewers want. Most people don't watch YT videos from beginning to end. Check your video statistics for proof. A lot of people check out after just a minute or two, especially if the video is boring.
@@EnigmaHoodsomeone should have told George Lucas people preferred old western movies, dude would be even richer!
That’s just how I feel about it. I structure content in a linear fashion. It’s a choice but it’s a choice I make
We should have gotten cowboys in Star Wars. Space horses
I guess im truly getting old. I cant really tell a difference when in motion. They both look great
We’ve all gotten old hahaha
Sega Lord X is an esoteric channel, thanks for the tip.
lol huh?
This wasn't a bad port. It was pretty much identical to the Model 3, despite being an outsourced project that was ready when the DC launched.
The main problem was that VF3 was 3 years old when it came out in the west. And other problem was that Soul Calibur was out as well, which had a ton of content on top of looking more appealing. VF3 was just there. Besides all this, VF3 was never all that popular. Our arcade carried the original version in 1997 or so. And no one bat an eye at it. I mean, it was the most impressive game I had ever seen at that point, I couldn't believe what I saw. Everyone gathered around Tekken 3 instead, and yeah it was more fun to play and time released characters would appear over the weeks.
Yes the entire games visuals have just aged by the time it came out
IF the Dreamcast had more RAM and VRAM it could have had higher res textures on par with the arcade, other than that no Model 3 game should have any issues running and looking better on the Dreamcast.
You can expand the ram in DC now with mods. Not like it helps anything but you you can do it
Regardless, the Dreamcast could have done a pixel perfect port of VF3, as evidenced by the port of DOA2. Someone extracted the Dreamcast DOA2 character models and determined that they were composed of over 8000 polygons each (no different from the models used in the cutscenes). Even their fingernails were modeled with geometry. And DOA2's backgrounds are clearly more complex than those in VF3. The skin mesh is also superior.
VF3 was just rushed to launch
I'd suggest two reasons as to why VF3tb on the Dreamcast got so much flack back in the day.
1. While it's by no means a bad port, if you compare its impact with that of the VF2 port on the Saturn, it seems much weaker. VF2 on the Saturn really was spectacular so I think fans were expecting to be equally wowed with VF3 on the Dreamcast. When it turned out to be good, but not groundbreaking port, people were disappointed.
2. Prior to the Dreamcast's launch there were a lot of rumours that AM2 were working on a VF3 port to the Saturn that was not only amazing but might even include some bespoke hardware enhancement. Whether or not any of this was credible, the fact this was shelved and no one ever saw it lead people to speculate the Saturn port would have been better. Partly because AM2 were making it themselves and I think as we all know the unreleased game we imagine will always be better than what actually is released....
Yes Saturn punched above its weight and here Dreamcast seems to punch below it. So comparing the impact of the two you can see how Saturn is acclaimed
How did you not mention the most obvious advantages of the Model 3? Texture resolution is higher on Model 3. The backgrounds have way higher polygon counts on Model 3.
I just focused on other items I felt were more important
The japanese DC launch version was worse than the U.S. version, which included some fixes. The training mode and shadow quality were improved and a versus mode was added. I had the imported japanese version and was a bit disappointed by it, but not by much. It's unfortunate that the groundbreaking water and sand particle effects were reduced in the home port. VF3 was still a fine-looking game, but it was three years old by 1999, which showed in comparison to Soul Calibur and DoA 2 on DC.
That was my first version too. Got it spring 1999 in the US
I never realized how often the dreamcast framerate dips. I guess I was too enamored with the visuals to notice back in 1999.
Frame rates weren’t as huge of a deal back then. Not like they are today
@VideoGameEsoterica you're right. We had just come from a console generation that rarely hit 30fps in 3d games.
Exactly. You got 20fps on an N64 game and you were totally fine with that. Stoked even
One easy sign to tell which is which is the missing motion blur on the DC version.
Def an indicator
i always thought that the model 3 ran a inter medium resolution of 496 x 384 making it not 240p but not quite up there with naomi/DCs 640 x 480p. i remember seeing the m3 house of the dead in a arcade once and thought how blocky it looked compared to the DC port. VF3 just looks more polished on the m3 ,, i think some of those early DC ports were a little of, but the DC soon catched up and took over the M3s abilities
Dreamcast def caught up within year one
They never surpassed the music of VF1. And the creative team never had a shared version of what the distinctive sound of VF was supposed to be (after the first episode). VF4 is an instructive example, IMO, with two different soundtracks.
It’s interesting they swapped out the soundtrack
All of the games on the PS2 (including the bizarre "10th anniversary" experiment) reflect civil war around the boardroom table. They couldn't agree on how jumping and dodging mechanics should work, so you get three different interpretations, etc.
Yeah, and of course 10th anniversary has yet another soundtrack, different from VF4 vanilla and evo, hearkening back to VF1, Q.E.D.
Vf3 has Vf’s best music!
I will give the VF3 soundtrack an open minded listen. @secretahsieg
Such an odd port. I remember reading that Sega wasn't even sure they wanted to port the game at all, then they just handed it off to Genki at the last minute. IIRC, it was a 6 month conversion. DC version definitely lost texture resolution. Last clip is Model 3.
Last clip is Model 3!
The arcade version has better textures and colours, the DC textures seam reduced in resolution and the colour has been reduced, good example is the 3tb version of the Great Wall of china with pinkish sky, the difference is the sky seams cropped on the DC version and lacking in “blue”
It lacks that punchy blue we come to expect from Sega
Anyone any idea y fir the last few versions of vf5 including the new update they dont seem to be able to fix the horrible sound fxs?its like a mix of high quality fxs with way lower quality fxs peppered in
Perhaps they lost the source files for some effects and just have lower bit rate versions
@VideoGameEsoterica its been released so many times now you would think they would have fixed it
Haha but then it wouldn’t be Sega
It was completely bested by other fighting games. The biggest letdown was it coming out a month AFTER Soul Calibur in the US and looking and playing worse with the longest load times I had experienced early in the Dreamcast's life.
VF3 deserved better. I'd expect an enhanced port that's better than arcade. The arcade game was old at this point
Yes it was hard to put it side by side with Soul Calibur
IMO, people were harsh on the DC port of VF3. The differences from the arcade aren't appreciably bigger than the difference between the real VF3 arcade vs Model 3 emulator lol
Yes it’s overly harsh criticism out there
You're playing virtua fighter in both cases, that's a W
Haha exactly. Both are epic and fun
After Soul Calibur came Dead or Alive 2 . VF 3tb just looked dated out the gate compared to them both. It just couldn’t catch a break in the 3D fighter space.
It was dated gameplay and presentation wise. But Sega made up for that and more with VF 4
Shun-Di's head doesn't turn red in the US version of the Dreamcast game as some weird form of censorship. Play the Japanese version and you'll see it turn red.
I’ve never understood that change. Like why?
I feel like an genki did an OK job with the graphics but it didn't feel like the arcade, I don't have fond memories as it's one of the few arcade fighters that was locked to PAL 50Hz on the European version, (DOA2 and Soul Calibre both had 60hz options) overall it wasn't my Favourite... Fighting Vipers 2 is worth a play however
It’s odd they locked it to 50p and didn’t leave an option for both. Big miss
60Hz Still might be there on PAL -version, just like it really is on Sega Rally 2. -You just need VGA -Cable to get 60Hz -mode.
When will you make the LRPS2 tutorial?
Tomorrow 8 am CST it goes live
@ Thank you! I hope it will run well on my 5 year old iPhone lmao.
Haha dunno bout that
@@VideoGameEsoterica I just went on some Reddit posts to find out that LRPS2 is not on iOS. Dangit.
Yeah no mobile as of yet
Always been saying this. The only weak port is VF4 on the PS2. That is worse in every metric.
Dreamcast is running a higher render resolution at 640x480 vs 496x384. Dreamcast has less ram compared to Sega Model 3 but is more powerful in every other metric. Only Model 3 Step 2/2.1 are slightly more powerful. Naomi 1 is more powerful than ever Model 3.
The Dreamcast port isn’t perfect but it’s a lot better than you’d read that’s for sure
@@VideoGameEsotericaMeanwhile VF4 on PS2 runs at lower resolution, lower polygon count (about half), lower quality textures, missing or lower quality effects and is hailed as arcade perfect.
By the way to answer your question it's VF3 arcade edition as Jeffrey stage is only during daylight in VF3.
Texture quality on DC was dramatically worse. The quality of the visuals, just because of this difference, was dramatically worse.
I wouldn’t say dramatically worse. Just “not as good”
Biggest difference for me is the better textures of the Model 3 version in backgrounds. DC port is still very good.
Def some background changes in the Dreamcast port. But if you pay attention to the fight you’d never notice. Which is I’m sure what the devs were hoping for
Virtua Fighter 3 isn’t in the same ball park as that Sega Rally 2 port and isn't really a bad port at all. As mentioned by many others, its issue was more to do with Soul Calibur and then Dead or Alive 2 than itself.
Whilst I enjoyed VF3, for me I was never as big a fan of it as I was with VF2 before it and certainly not VF4 and outside of the original is the entry I return to the least, whether that be the arcade or console version
VF3 feels like the odd entry out even if I still love it
I don't care too much about the graphics but some people didn't like the the new game play mechanic of uneven ground surfaces. Also I think the game somewhat contributed to the dreamcasat's failure as it's the only mainline game in the series to sell less than 1 million copies and was less popular than soul calibur with virtua fighter basically being sega's flagship franchise in the absence of s 3D sonic game on the saturn (in terms of sales nights into dreams sold less than VF 2 ) the next generation DC game could have done better.
The uneven surfaces are an interesting addition. It’s both progressive and slightly annoying at the same time
@@VideoGameEsoterica Agree , there's a reason they haven't gone back to it though
Yes. I’m sure it was not popular with the competitive scene
I think it's an alright port.
As do I. Clearly haha
You just had to make a video when I was playing this on my Dreamcast- lol.
But yeah I think it’s definitely weaker then what was shown with Virtua fighter 2 on Saturn which does disappoint me ):
Wish someone would make a patch for this game.
(Also yes i was using composite cables on my crt tv and it does look worse visually but resolution wise it looks really good)
Haha I timed it up just to mess with you. It’s funny when timing works like that though
@ yeah lmao. Only two Dreamcasts games i have on disc are test drive Le Mans and Virtua fighter 3 so it was probably easier to get that timed up then normal lol.
Haha had a fifty fifty shot
@@VideoGameEsoterica yeah. Virtua fighter 3 though is just fun, only issue is actually doing some of the moves sometimes. That d-pad on the Dreamcast isn’t the best but isn’t the worst, it’s still good but compared to the sega Saturn or sega Genesis d-pad oh boy it’s a difference.
Dreamcast def benefits from grabbing a real arcade stick
Kage has the shiny pants I’ve ever seen
Style first 🤣
They used different voice actors for VF3 than VF2: how can you cope with the difference in emphasis and intonation when Jacky says, "No way you can stop me", and "I'm faster than lightning"? The voices are SO MUCH WORSE in VF3... and yes, I just discovered this today, so forgive me for my "mind = blown" reaction.
Haha none of the voices are good so I never noticed the diff
Dude... DUDE... the voices in VF2 were so much better than VF3 and VF4... male and female, English and Japanese... "Hora hora hora!"... "Juu nin hai en dai oh!" @VideoGameEsoterica
It's not a bad port, it's a bad game 🤷♂
The models, the lighting, the animations: just uncanny valley.
Well it was just how things looked when it was made
@@VideoGameEsoterica I slightly disagree. VF2 looks better, because it doesn't have the same aggressive shading.
Definitely the worst port ever, same as VF4 on PS2. People have been waiting over 20 years to finally play the arcade hd versions of these games. Unfortunately Sega doesn't give a damn about them. Only an emulator or a small windowed SD version in the latest Yakuza.
VF3tb's fault lies on Arcade Machine focus and not the console market
too advanced for it to be ported to a less powerful console at it's time, Saturn
and Sega's decision to not release Dreamcast internationally same date as Japan
VF3tb was far ahead in 1996 arcade
Soul Calibur was far ahead in 1998
VF3tb and SC1 release internationally at late 1999
was a disaster comparison for VF3tb
in terms of cult classic following
VF3tb is definitely the Third Strike of the series
whereas Soul Calibur 2 would be the Third Strike of it's series
as flowers for Genki, kami company right there
Yes it felt a tiny bit “been there, done that” by the time 1999 rolled around
They're pretty close.
Extremely close
So many points you didn’t mention. Shun’s leg crevice, Aoi’s fogless stage, shadows not done correctly….
I try and cover what I think is interesting for the ten minutes I have
It wasn't a bad due the Dreamcast power, it was just a lazy port. In comparison to Soul Calibur or Dead or Alive, VF looks like a generation behind game.
Suffered from the launch day effect
Sega fumbled, they should've gone for a full remake or VF4 on dreamcast. I mean, look at DOA 2, it's only 1 year later
That year made all the difference in how developers handled the hardware and it shows
What about the ladg port ?
Maybe I’ll cover that in the future
There is still no decent way to play any of these: VF4 on the PS2 is terrible (both "vanilla" and "evolution"). Not an exaggeration: terrible. What SNK did with the Arcade Stick Pro: Sega should have done that for Virtua Fighter 1, 2 and 3. _Seriously._
Just gotta play Final Tuned on Flycast
Their hands look creepy.
Human enough but not quite perfect
VF3 situation cannot compare to Sega Rally 2 one.
SR2 was made with WindowsCE and thats why its a horrible port, like all WindowsCE games are (we thank WindowsCE though for bringing emulators and homebrew on Dreamcast).
VF3 could be a little better but ok, its still a great port on DC.
Yes Sega Rally 2 is sadly the low water mark for ports
Is WindowsCE really always that terrible though? I played Virtua Cop 2 recently, and that was a damn fine port.
No it’s not always bad. But it tended to be more bad then good
@ Virtua Cop 2 is a lighter and older game so its ok. For bigger stuff using WindowsCE was a mistake,it just couldn't utilize the full DC hardware.But again it left its mark to DC because through it we have the big homebrew scene.
The port wasnt bad, unless you count the horrendous PAL version that was forced at 50hz. YUK!
That will happen to PAL
@@VideoGameEsotericamost pal games had a 60 Hz option on dreamcast
@@MrYukawa Yeah the vast majority of them did, they just rushed this out to Market without implementing it. the PAL version is a BAD port. I imported the JAP version to play, and it comes with that cool Project Berkley disc.
@@MrYukawa Also, what was stupid in PAL VF3's case is that you could play it in 60Hz with the VGA cable, so why not put in the option for normal TVs?
Bummer to hear the PAL version is so bad
With all respect, please speak a bit slower in the future :)
Dreamcast version has no elbows
Then how do their arms bend? Lol
@@VideoGameEsoterica What? Sir, arms and forearms are 2 separate pieces, they don't need to "bend"... jokes aside, look from 3:35, where it shows better(you can pause when Akira is shown in the entire screen).
@andymangaka haha I’ll take a peek
The only bad port on the Dreamcast is sega rally 2
That’s def not a good one per the previous episode I ran
i think its model 3
I’ll tell everyone next Sat
lol ''and twice on sunday''
One of my fav ways to emphasize things
Genki works problem
They did the best they can
@ sega not works than dc is fall
Dude, learn to breathe
DC cersion is trash
I def wouldn’t agree with that