Fun fact, paper is a good recommendation because the spell description says the only thing that is damaged is creatures and otherwise only flammable objects ignite. As such, anything non-flammable in the area technically takes zero damage, though I imagine many DMs don't run it that way
No, everything that is destructible has HP and AC. So long as it isn't immune to fire (DM's discretion) and isn't on or carried by a creature, it will take the damage.
@@elf-lordsfriarofthemeadowl2039 the spell says "creature" meaning if it is an object the RAW only creatures take damage. The extra line at the bottom only says that flammable things ignite. That is all the spell does damage wise. There is what the spell says and what logic says should happen, and they aren't always the same. As written a stone table wouldn't explode into chunks if fireball is casted under it, as it is neither a creature nor flammable
I wish the guys I play with minded the environment... "I'm gonna cast a firespell! - We're on an ice castle, a flying one at that, and you want to melt it? - Yeah!'' ''I open the chest! - The one just in front of the acid head of the statue of Tiamat? - yeah!'' Stupidity is one thing but we turned into terrorists >×
@@Xavier-cv2vw We had a mage figuring out levitating (concentration spell) upward away from will o wisp, a flying creature, was the smartest thing to do. So when he tried to cast another spell he fell to the ground and got beaten up by the wisps.
It was at this point that Sam became apprenticed to a sorcerer, and learned the feat Metamagic Adept, and the metamagic “Transmuted Spell”. From then on, whenever someone waltzed up to Sam, bragging amount their immunity to fire, he would throw a fireball made of lightning at them!
"If you put crucial information on paper in the room, they'll be much less likely to..." -yeah, I'm gonna stop you right there. You'd think that would deter them, but no, not my party of klepto arsonists
@@Kitusser no but being able to know where the enemies are requires a check to target that space, otherwise you fall into metagaming. It's not about fully denying your players. Just disuading them.
When my party’s Wizard learned 3rd-level spells, he immediately took Fireball (as any Wizard would). The first time he used it was in a ruined mansion with a swarm of Stirges clinging to the roof. The ceiling collapsed on him, sending down debris and the Rogue who was doing reconnaissance on the roof! Good thing the Fighter was right around the corner with a Healer’s Kit, or the Wizard’s first Fireball would’ve been his last!
That, and just adding elemental effects based on terrain, like fireball dealing less damage on rainy days or if the opponent is wet for whatever reason, and doing next to nothing underwater. Give ice grabbling abilities during these conditions and water increased range, and lightning shoots of in a random direction plus the direction you shot, and suddenly spells gain nuance. It's way harder, but is definitely more interactive than normal and thus can be more rewarding.
@@THEPELADOMASTER first off, I said it dropped fire damage, and not just on fireball, but all fire spells, like fire bolt as well, which isn't an explosion. Second off, how much harder would it be to light logs on fire if they're wet? I'm taking that logic and applying it to the air for rain, which just makes sense. Third off, I said wet, not damp, there's a difference in the amount of liquid required here, and as I said, it's nuanced as some liquids would do the opposite like oil, notoriously flammable liquid. And finally, all of this is based off the real world context of applying cold water to burns to minimize the real world damage, meaning it's grounded in actual logic that's so easy to apply even kids learn this. So maybe next time, take more than 5 fucking seconds to read and comprehend my comment, as in case you haven't noticed, work around exist for such simple formed comments like your's.
@@shadowsnake5133 Oh damn. I never thought of that tbh... Might have to see if I can abuse this and annoy my DM. Though as a Monk I doubt that'll come up. Might have to make a plan that let's a party member have some elemental fun
@@shadowsnake5133 I mean Cheap Tactics is right, even heavy rainfall wouldn’t stop an explosion (in the specific case of fire spells that do explode) as the force that heats you up is on an atomic level, while the way they brought this up was very rude, you are also conducting yourself disorderly. Changes of temperature happen at a level that rain wouldn’t effect all that much, so while starting a fire on wet logs might not work at all, putting a wet log on a fully functioning blaze would boil away the water in seconds, and actually make it burn up faster since there are now tiny pockets of air from the water expanding rapidly. keeping in mind that spells like fireball in dnd do not require a fuel source to burn other than magic, this scenario is a lot closer to option B than option A. The other ideas you had work fine though, air has a much more efficient convection rate (that’s a means of temperature transfer btw) than water so while rainfall would not suppress the effects of a fireball being fully submerged would, plus taking into account that lightning will ground itself in the fastest way possible (and since rain is now acting as a more effective conductor than air, that makes people in a bunch of metal armour our best lightning rods) is a convenient way to make tempest characters a lot more menacing. TLDR: you have a point but you are also wrong in other ways
Minute Meteor isn't a super strong spell. But it's definitely a bit underrated. It takes concentration to maintain it. But if you prep it early in a fight. You can stack 2 meteors alongside spells like fireball every turn, and you can get more out of it in situations with tight spacing or with separate small clusters of enemies.
@@spencervance8484 5th level psychic fireball that asks an int save instead of dex If you fail that int save your victim gets to subtract 1d6 from attacks and ability checks for 1 minute or until they pass the save(good int saves are relatively rare) Only downsides are that it's 5th level and doesn't effect creatures with an int of 2 or less.
It was over for me when my players figured out you can center your fireball in the air or behind the enemy so theres no chance to accidentally hurt your allies
For targeting, I'll just remind that unless the enemy has taken some sort of an action to actively hide or they have some ability, you vaguely know where they are even if you can't see them. And fireball has a pretty decent radius. So unless you're fighting rogues or enemies who have similar abilities, fireball still stays great. The spell doesn't state that you need to see the end point, just that you have to be able to point to the selected center, so as long as you can point at the spot, you can make a big boom. That said, blinding a caster is incredibly effective for most spells, especially for wizards and sorcerers and ESPECIALLY for non weapon oriented warlocks, with how they usually are pushed into eldritch blast.
That’s why I prefer the spell Lightning Bolt, it causes WAY less collateral damage and does the same amount of damage, just in a narrower area of effect
Blinding the sorcerer could lead to an interesting sequence where another player manually aims the sorcerer at the enemies, like a barbarian pointing the wizard like a cannon at enemies
1. Abilities and consumable items that recharge spell slots/ don’t require them (ring of spell storing/spell refuelling, necklace of fireballs, the spell catnap, etc 2. Warcaster (it’s your caster’s best friend) 3. The mending cantrip This is not meant to say that my mans tips are invalid, just a reminder that your players do have some ways of getting around them, take into account these factors before setting up these spell-slot-“catchers” for your party
I love flammable gas for controlling the impulse to "kill it with fire". Casters who know they can't control where or how big their fireball is will be *much* less likely to use it injudiciously
Also, really tight spaces. Then you'll have the other players giving them the stink eye when they try to cast it. One player caught on for that dungeon and started prepping minute meteor. Which I approved of, because it's a spell that is often forgotten.
@@piranhaplantX Also yes, but as the guy who usually plays evocation casters, that consideration is reflex to me and I don't often consciously think about it lol
"A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose within range" Fireball doesn't require sight. You don't need to target a creature or point *you can see*, so you can just say "I hear the enemies over there, I'll lob a fireball where I'm heading the sounds from". By RAW, you don't need to see to cast fireball.
rests?- be elf and go into a demi plane when you get the spell too to speed time up for yourself 2. fireball dosent need to see and level 2 sorcerer and bam suttle magic. 3.mending
@@skycrafter2042, "the paper is repaired, but the words aren't." Or "Mending puts something back together from its pieces, and the carbon is now part of a cloud of rapidly expanding gas." I don't know about using mending.
And on his other side is he extremely valuable very flammable painting stolen from an extremely wealthy collector Who will definitely pay for its safe return.
My parties light cleric(I think) was obsessed with fireball. When the big bad and her lieutenants we’re all standing together at the final battle he was so excited. Sixth level fireball. She held out her hand and sent it back. They were all freaking out, and I’m like. “This woman has been spying on you for months. You think she wasn’t prepared for a fireball???”
I think blinded doesn’t actually prevent you from casting it because unlike many other spells, there’s no mention of you needing to see the target with fireball. It just says to choose a point within range, not a point within range that you can see or anything like that.
I feel like a narratively cool encounter would be a cult leader and his minions. Players get to feel cool when they nuke the cultists with Fireball, but then suddenly have to think outside the box when the leader turns out to be a powerful fiend who is immune to fire.
I remember once my wild magic sorcerer oneshotted the boss of a oneshot with a crit on her wild magic surge fireball when she tried to cast something else (the boss also had a weakness to fire) The look on my dms face was glorious- the party just went insane because this little halfling girl who wore mushroom dresses and wore a big hat and fell into holes and narrowly dodged traps and accidentally teleported herself when casting shield and another time turned into a potted fern once while hunting fairies just took out this massive nightmarish jack in the box puppet BY ACCIDENT! I loved that oneshot so much it was so fun :)
“You are in a paper room, with the slip of paper you have been looking for sitting in the middle of the room. In the corner of this room, there is a lone goblin, wearing stone, FIRE RESISTANT ARMOR.” “I use fireball”
In a volcanic cave or other appropriate location (swamp gas, etc.), have an npc warn the party, either before or at the cave, that the cave is filled with an flammable gas that is otherwise harmless.
There’s always gonna be that one person that thinks casting fireball is a good idea because either he wasn’t paying attention or you know he just doesn’t care
You're right ofc. But you can say you warned then if they try to whine about the results of their actions. Absolve yourself and watch them tpk themselves 😅
Personally I disagree with the blindness/silence. And the reason is because the vast majority of spells require one or both to cast which virtually makes the caster unable to do anything. Blindness I can sort of understand because that affects pretty much all classes but silent only affects casters.
You could run it the old school way - where fireball expands to fill the space - 33,000 cubic feet. Watch their reactions as the fireball blasts back at them when cast in a confined area...
Better idea inform them wild magic area flammable gases or what he said and have a very flammable item that you must bring back in tact otherwise I don’t know he won’t get paid
It takes at least one valuable piece of paper to get destroyed before players really start to think about that. A really cool idea is an enemy that constantly learns the tricks of the players. It lets the players feel cool by unleashing an awesome plan but also forces them to adapt because they can't use it a second time. A nice example was a custom big threat of hive-mind goblins - tl;dr it was a huge threat of rapidly reproducing, weak but constantly learning enemies. Players encounter a horde of them and the sorcerer obliterates them with fireball. Next time the goblins rush from different sides to get into melee among the party - a bunch dies to attacks of opportunity, but now AOE would hit the party as well.
Maybe moisture in the air could keep fireball out of use Like if you are in a rainforest or such But if you are in a place like a desert or even a swamp (due to methane) it spreads in the air better
Make the area filled with breathable explosive gas. If they use thunder or fire damage, no matter if it's magical or not, it will explode dealing damage to all.
Maybe even in the middle of a fight somebody could hit Ella piece of the wall or maybe hit a can and Wala nobody is able to cast anything that is electric or fire or the whole place will go kaboom
flow block status effect that completely blocks magic flow, stopping spells of any kind is preventable by having the mana overload feat (exclusive to monks with +3 dexterity and clerics of the order domain but some spells might cause it) (all sorcerers have natural mana overload feat) no magic for you just gotta homebrew some creatures that can flow block step 1: kill the whole party before the "final battle" step 2: send them to hell step 3: after a tiering adventure through the first bits of hell to get dome equipment, make them go past a river that had flow blocking leeches that suck your hp. step 4: big reward aka a staff that can flow block without the need of being a monk or an order domain cleric
Player when informed of the documents they have to grab: *sweats profusely* Wizard and Sorcerer don't do it please Wizard and Sorcerer: *looks at each other, looks at the paper, shrugs thinking it can be grabbed or saved by the Artificer with Mending* Artificer: *Didn't have Mending prepared*
you failed mission. We weren’t able to recover the documents because you fools burned it up. You will not receive any payment in fact we are expecting 10 platinum from you
Good advice, I like it, especially the condition one, blinding characters makes them have to think creatively! Have to say I don't like the word "counter" in the video title though, much as you said it wasn't about player vs DM for me it incites that vibe
Haha I just slapped them in a submarine and the wizard learned the hard way that fire doesn't mix well with vehicles of any kind. Actually in general I feel my campaign has been pretty balanced for magic. Can't take all the credit for that, the players have been wonderful about not trying to solve everything by just hitting it.with magic until it went away, whether combat, traversal or puzzles. All about balance, since I've given them just as many chances to shine and simply obliterate encounters.
Ok if I remember correctly if you choose school of evocation you can make creatures of your choice immune to your evocation spells so maybe they can use that on the paper
Did I forget to mention the whole room was filled up of a flammable gas and the enemies all have blind ready and oh one more thing that piece of paper has a warranty containing counterspell they will activate immediately upon any other magic coming to contact with it
Yep the paper does not work at all. There was an enemy, with a map, in a POTIONS SHOP and my player cast fireball immediately. Almost had a TPK and about half the town square exploded.
Unfortunately, blinded doesn’t necessarily work as a counter measure to a caster casting fire ball. Fireball targets “a point within range” not “a point you can see”. Silence does work though, unless it’s an area of silence that they can move out of in 1 turn.
DM-Roll a D8 Oh your point exactly away from the enemy is straight towards your Clerk and ranger downing them both to the point of they are not gonna be able to help during this fight
OK you cast fireball when do your party because you’re blind and knock down the healer and the archer plus the tank gets a little bit of that damage in now is at 1HP leaving you as the only one standing
I remember going into a storage room with a bunch of flammable elixirs, potions, phials - you name it. And so does the people I used to play with. *Good times.*
Ptsd secne here. My playeres decided it was to slow to kill the bandit orcs and goblins that were hiding in the forest so they torch it. And thats how it turned the campaign fron save the kingdom to conquer the kingdom. Good times.
"DM : A group of feys come to your party, seeking revenge for their forest. Player : Pfff, feys are low CR creatures, it's going to be easy ! DM : They seem to be seven cindered dryads, really dangerous beings according to legends. Player : Cindered Dryads ? I never eared of them, from which book ? DM : ... Player : Wait... They are not homebrewed, are they ? DM : Just a head's up, they are immune to fire. Players : *gasp*" Consequences.
@@trebmal587 they were made consequently by you when you burned them their magic fused with the fire so now they’re only in immune to fire but they are to heal from fire so…
Yeah I usually use the environment to deincentivise using fireball as well. Most of the time when I tell the players that a building is flammable, there are innocents around or such an explosion might draw too much attention, they rethink their plan. Most of the time.
Cold now you’re underwater acid now you’re standing right above you standing on a metal grate where acid would melt causing you to fall into electrified water electricity metal video will always be able to figure out ways to make sure you’re not spamming
Did I forget to mention those very flammable paintings are worth millions so if you destroy them you will have to pay every single piece of platinum gold silver and copper and if you don’t you’ll be hunted down until you do pay up by extremely well equipped bountyhunters
The paper one is easy to counter. Someone just has to pick it up, and then no matter whether it's still in the blast, radius, it's gonna be okay - cuz spells don't damage items that are being worn or carried ;)
The DM probably will bend the rules to that particular thing is extremely fragile/flammable so if that enemy takes any fire damage it can be a 50-50 roll to a comes out a bit damaged or it comes out not at all as a pile of ash
@@thedbdentity2102 Here's the can of worms that opens: If a fireball can burn a piece of paper in my hand, why are my hair and my clothes still untouched? Why can't I set another wizard's beard on fire? Or their spellbook? Well, game balance of course. But then why does it work on a piece of paper I quickly shove into my bag, hold in my hand, or cover with my arm? The DM is gonna enjoy trying to explain this shit...
Had fun sending the party I DM for into a sacred grove, infestated with swarms of rats: "And please don't harm the trees." Their mind-controlling fireball-slinging wizard said:"Is this the punishment from the universe?"
Wizard: “I didn’t ask about the important piece of paper, I said I cast Fireball!” DM: “okay you failed the quest and your employer is NOT happy.” Wizard: “I cast Fireball at him!” DM: “Uhh, he’s the prince?” Wizard: “DID I STUTTER!?”
What usually works for me is opportunity cost. Fireball is at its best at level 5, but it's also when you only get two 3rd level spell slots. Bait fireball with one encounter with multiple weak enemies. If they used it too early in the dungeon, they won't have it now, and those weak enemies become a problem. If your characters also have counterspell, put a mage in the dungeon. If they spam fireball, suddenly they won't be able to use counterspell or dispel magic. Also, it gives you, the DM the chance to also cast fireball upon the PCs.
I had a player like that. So i started lining the humanoid bossess layers with bookshelves filled with books. They wanted to salvage knowledge....worked like a fire extinguisher every time
Fun fact, paper is a good recommendation because the spell description says the only thing that is damaged is creatures and otherwise only flammable objects ignite. As such, anything non-flammable in the area technically takes zero damage, though I imagine many DMs don't run it that way
As a player that loves playong clerics mend is a fun counter to this UNLESS ITS MAGIC PAPER then the cantrip is null
@@phillipkeen223 you can not mend dust
@@phillipkeen223 if it is ash, it is no longer "broken", but something else entirely
No, everything that is destructible has HP and AC. So long as it isn't immune to fire (DM's discretion) and isn't on or carried by a creature, it will take the damage.
@@elf-lordsfriarofthemeadowl2039 the spell says "creature" meaning if it is an object the RAW only creatures take damage. The extra line at the bottom only says that flammable things ignite. That is all the spell does damage wise. There is what the spell says and what logic says should happen, and they aren't always the same. As written a stone table wouldn't explode into chunks if fireball is casted under it, as it is neither a creature nor flammable
I wish the guys I play with minded the environment...
"I'm gonna cast a firespell!
- We're on an ice castle, a flying one at that, and you want to melt it?
- Yeah!''
''I open the chest!
- The one just in front of the acid head of the statue of Tiamat?
- yeah!''
Stupidity is one thing but we turned into terrorists >×
Stupidity by itself is terrifying.
@@aldahesu28 the terrifying part is that I always get caught in it even after warning them ;^;
Nah that's not stupidity, that's just psychotic genius
@@lewistac6108 "your legs are broken and you want to jump over a 2 ft hole."
"yeah!"
@@Xavier-cv2vw We had a mage figuring out levitating (concentration spell) upward away from will o wisp, a flying creature, was the smartest thing to do. So when he tried to cast another spell he fell to the ground and got beaten up by the wisps.
"Oh, lovely. Fire Immunity. And Look! *More* Fire Immunity" - Sam the Flame Sorcerer, probably.
Wow look there even more fire immunity and look over there five and ability know it firearm unity
A NEW CHALLENGER!!
Fire ABSORPTION!!!
Steve the electric sorcerer to the rescue with scintillating sphere!
I understood that reference.
It was at this point that Sam became apprenticed to a sorcerer, and learned the feat Metamagic Adept, and the metamagic “Transmuted Spell”.
From then on, whenever someone waltzed up to Sam, bragging amount their immunity to fire, he would throw a fireball made of lightning at them!
I have one what if gasoline was everywhere
😂😂
I'd still cast
I did not ask whats spilled everywhere, i said CAST FIREBALL!
Nevermind people want death and fire
That's just more d6 of damage to your enemies, as long as you step out if it.
Well, I did the paper in the last session. Guess who almost got TPKed due to lack of vital information?
I imagine players be like: “Oh, no! How could we know that BBEG will have *insert vital information here* ?”
Gotta build up to it. You could also place the fight in a library, or cover the area in fine linens
Did they know the paper was important beforehand?
You have only yourself to blame. If you actually TPKed your party, there'd be consequences. Right now, there were none
"If you put crucial information on paper in the room, they'll be much less likely to..." -yeah, I'm gonna stop you right there. You'd think that would deter them, but no, not my party of klepto arsonists
So essentially
Rock (stoned): can’t see the enemy.
Paper: parchment, easily lost or destroyed.
Scissors: cut out the tongue.
Perfect
And gun: knock them out
Fireball doesn't require you to see.
@@Kitusser no but being able to know where the enemies are requires a check to target that space, otherwise you fall into metagaming. It's not about fully denying your players. Just disuading them.
@@Sip_Dhit Does it really? If the enemy isn't hiding, you know where they are RAW.
Conversely: Counterspell.
DM: " the dire wolf casts counterspell..."
The peasant horde casts counterspell
@@pendingchange3776 the king casts: warrant for arrest or summary execution, reward follows
@@armorclasshero2103 the reward:more peasants
@@pendingchange3776 you've never seen brutal repression until you've witnessed class warfare with D&D spells
When my party’s Wizard learned 3rd-level spells, he immediately took Fireball (as any Wizard would). The first time he used it was in a ruined mansion with a swarm of Stirges clinging to the roof. The ceiling collapsed on him, sending down debris and the Rogue who was doing reconnaissance on the roof! Good thing the Fighter was right around the corner with a Healer’s Kit, or the Wizard’s first Fireball would’ve been his last!
Jokes on you I’ve destroyed an entire building before entering it because I saw a bad guy walk in there. Parchment means very little.
That's a good way to get a bounty on your head.
You mean in the game, right?
...Right?
@@ussxrequin I cast mailbox pipe bomb
@@youtubestuff683 I cast inept political party, I spend 1 internet point to bring it into play face down.
@@youtubestuff683 I cast bomb squad.
"I didn't ask if the orphanage was empty, I said I use my homebrew deities blessing to cast fireball three times"
That, and just adding elemental effects based on terrain, like fireball dealing less damage on rainy days or if the opponent is wet for whatever reason, and doing next to nothing underwater. Give ice grabbling abilities during these conditions and water increased range, and lightning shoots of in a random direction plus the direction you shot, and suddenly spells gain nuance. It's way harder, but is definitely more interactive than normal and thus can be more rewarding.
Ah yes because an explosion will deal less damage because some tiny ass droplets are falling from the sky.
@@THEPELADOMASTER first off, I said it dropped fire damage, and not just on fireball, but all fire spells, like fire bolt as well, which isn't an explosion. Second off, how much harder would it be to light logs on fire if they're wet? I'm taking that logic and applying it to the air for rain, which just makes sense. Third off, I said wet, not damp, there's a difference in the amount of liquid required here, and as I said, it's nuanced as some liquids would do the opposite like oil, notoriously flammable liquid. And finally, all of this is based off the real world context of applying cold water to burns to minimize the real world damage, meaning it's grounded in actual logic that's so easy to apply even kids learn this. So maybe next time, take more than 5 fucking seconds to read and comprehend my comment, as in case you haven't noticed, work around exist for such simple formed comments like your's.
@@shadowsnake5133 Oh damn. I never thought of that tbh... Might have to see if I can abuse this and annoy my DM.
Though as a Monk I doubt that'll come up. Might have to make a plan that let's a party member have some elemental fun
@@shadowsnake5133 I mean Cheap Tactics is right, even heavy rainfall wouldn’t stop an explosion (in the specific case of fire spells that do explode) as the force that heats you up is on an atomic level, while the way they brought this up was very rude, you are also conducting yourself disorderly. Changes of temperature happen at a level that rain wouldn’t effect all that much, so while starting a fire on wet logs might not work at all, putting a wet log on a fully functioning blaze would boil away the water in seconds, and actually make it burn up faster since there are now tiny pockets of air from the water expanding rapidly. keeping in mind that spells like fireball in dnd do not require a fuel source to burn other than magic, this scenario is a lot closer to option B than option A. The other ideas you had work fine though, air has a much more efficient convection rate (that’s a means of temperature transfer btw) than water so while rainfall would not suppress the effects of a fireball being fully submerged would, plus taking into account that lightning will ground itself in the fastest way possible (and since rain is now acting as a more effective conductor than air, that makes people in a bunch of metal armour our best lightning rods) is a convenient way to make tempest characters a lot more menacing.
TLDR: you have a point but you are also wrong in other ways
That's when the sorcerer whips out metamagic and changes the damage type XD
No long rests!
Warlock: laughs in short rest
Coffeelock: laughs
"Silence is a good counter to Fireball."
Subtle Spell Metamagic: Allow me to introduce myself
"I didn't ask how big the room was, I said CAST FIREBALL!"
Sadly paper is not the solution if the caster in question is a sorcerer.
Or just send your players to hell. Everyone there has fire immunity
Re the paper:
Evocation Wizard who can make safe zones in their evocation spells: "I have no such weaknesses"
Ok, but for that last recommendation, I've also prepared Melf's Minute Meteors.
Minute Meteor isn't a super strong spell. But it's definitely a bit underrated. It takes concentration to maintain it. But if you prep it early in a fight. You can stack 2 meteors alongside spells like fireball every turn, and you can get more out of it in situations with tight spacing or with separate small clusters of enemies.
Escanor is calling, he wants his fireball back
You claim you took my fireball? Who decided that?
"is the document sentient?"
"Nooo?"
"I cast synaptic static!"
Synaptic static is a fantastic spell
@@expertoflizardcorrugation3967 whats it do?
@@spencervance8484 5th level psychic fireball that asks an int save instead of dex
If you fail that int save your victim gets to subtract 1d6 from attacks and ability checks for 1 minute or until they pass the save(good int saves are relatively rare)
Only downsides are that it's 5th level and doesn't effect creatures with an int of 2 or less.
Two words… Absorb Elements
DM: "and every dire wolf casts absorb elements.
Now their next attack deals an additional 1d6 fire damage"
@@ajaafive1384 🤣🤣
Ooo, that works a lot better than counterspell.
@@mudawott AND it’s 1st level so you can give it to any magic based creature
@@ajaafive1384 haha, yeah, maybe some logic would apply but it adds variety further from just “it casts Counterspell”
I actually am working on a big encounter for this exact scenario. Obscuring fog is going to be very fun.
It was over for me when my players figured out you can center your fireball in the air or behind the enemy so theres no chance to accidentally hurt your allies
For targeting, I'll just remind that unless the enemy has taken some sort of an action to actively hide or they have some ability, you vaguely know where they are even if you can't see them. And fireball has a pretty decent radius. So unless you're fighting rogues or enemies who have similar abilities, fireball still stays great. The spell doesn't state that you need to see the end point, just that you have to be able to point to the selected center, so as long as you can point at the spot, you can make a big boom.
That said, blinding a caster is incredibly effective for most spells, especially for wizards and sorcerers and ESPECIALLY for non weapon oriented warlocks, with how they usually are pushed into eldritch blast.
Then again you could also hit your parties back line knocking out archers and possibly take down your healer
Sorcerers who have transmuted spell: Hold my beer
Also ones with subtle spell: *grins in fire ball
That’s why I prefer the spell Lightning Bolt, it causes WAY less collateral damage and does the same amount of damage, just in a narrower area of effect
Ex DM
"There is a small pool of oil in the room, in the walls you see barrels that say "nitroglycerin""
Gets blinded
Spell caster: I’m gonna do what’s called a pro gamer move
Casts meteor swarm
Blinding the sorcerer could lead to an interesting sequence where another player manually aims the sorcerer at the enemies, like a barbarian pointing the wizard like a cannon at enemies
1. Abilities and consumable items that recharge spell slots/ don’t require them (ring of spell storing/spell refuelling, necklace of fireballs, the spell catnap, etc
2. Warcaster (it’s your caster’s best friend)
3. The mending cantrip
This is not meant to say that my mans tips are invalid, just a reminder that your players do have some ways of getting around them, take into account these factors before setting up these spell-slot-“catchers” for your party
I love flammable gas for controlling the impulse to "kill it with fire". Casters who know they can't control where or how big their fireball is will be *much* less likely to use it injudiciously
Also, really tight spaces. Then you'll have the other players giving them the stink eye when they try to cast it. One player caught on for that dungeon and started prepping minute meteor. Which I approved of, because it's a spell that is often forgotten.
@@piranhaplantX Also yes, but as the guy who usually plays evocation casters, that consideration is reflex to me and I don't often consciously think about it lol
"A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose within range"
Fireball doesn't require sight. You don't need to target a creature or point *you can see*, so you can just say "I hear the enemies over there, I'll lob a fireball where I'm heading the sounds from".
By RAW, you don't need to see to cast fireball.
Dm: you hit your medic and sniper
rests?- be elf and go into a demi plane when you get the spell too to speed time up for yourself
2. fireball dosent need to see and level 2 sorcerer and bam suttle magic.
3.mending
i read some comments about mending and mending could still fix it even if its burnt as its just broken pieces of the original piece
@@skycrafter2042, "the paper is repaired, but the words aren't." Or "Mending puts something back together from its pieces, and the carbon is now part of a cloud of rapidly expanding gas."
I don't know about using mending.
Paper ... put a spell scroll on a table ... put the bad guy next to the table at the start of the encounter.
Wizard begins *sweating*
And on his other side is he extremely valuable very flammable painting stolen from an extremely wealthy collector Who will definitely pay for its safe return.
My parties light cleric(I think) was obsessed with fireball. When the big bad and her lieutenants we’re all standing together at the final battle he was so excited. Sixth level fireball. She held out her hand and sent it back. They were all freaking out, and I’m like. “This woman has been spying on you for months. You think she wasn’t prepared for a fireball???”
I think blinded doesn’t actually prevent you from casting it because unlike many other spells, there’s no mention of you needing to see the target with fireball. It just says to choose a point within range, not a point within range that you can see or anything like that.
I’ve said this once on another comment but the DM could make you roll a D8 and Wala you now hit your own parties back line
"How to counter fireball" *shows escanor throwing a sun*
Yeah you can't compare the two
You don't need to see the enemies to target them with a fireball.
I assume you need to see to choose the point of detonation by the spells target line.
Target: A point you choose within range
@@GwydionV A point you choose not a point you can see. That may sound nitpicky but it's a legit distinction when it comes to RAW
Sorcerer: I have fireball, can I cast it.
DM: Idk, can you?
I feel like a narratively cool encounter would be a cult leader and his minions. Players get to feel cool when they nuke the cultists with Fireball, but then suddenly have to think outside the box when the leader turns out to be a powerful fiend who is immune to fire.
I remember once my wild magic sorcerer oneshotted the boss of a oneshot with a crit on her wild magic surge fireball when she tried to cast something else (the boss also had a weakness to fire)
The look on my dms face was glorious- the party just went insane because this little halfling girl who wore mushroom dresses and wore a big hat and fell into holes and narrowly dodged traps and accidentally teleported herself when casting shield and another time turned into a potted fern once while hunting fairies just took out this massive nightmarish jack in the box puppet BY ACCIDENT!
I loved that oneshot so much it was so fun :)
How exactly do you crit on a fireball, a *saving throw spell* ?
“You are in a paper room, with the slip of paper you have been looking for sitting in the middle of the room. In the corner of this room, there is a lone goblin, wearing stone, FIRE RESISTANT ARMOR.”
“I use fireball”
*gasoline soaked paper
Kerosene soaked paper and under the goblins stone armor is some sort of futuristic scavenged under clothing that is fire proof
I cast minute meteor
In a volcanic cave or other appropriate location (swamp gas, etc.), have an npc warn the party, either before or at the cave, that the cave is filled with an flammable gas that is otherwise harmless.
There’s always gonna be that one person that thinks casting fireball is a good idea because either he wasn’t paying attention or you know he just doesn’t care
You're right ofc. But you can say you warned then if they try to whine about the results of their actions. Absolve yourself and watch them tpk themselves 😅
Personally I disagree with the blindness/silence. And the reason is because the vast majority of spells require one or both to cast which virtually makes the caster unable to do anything. Blindness I can sort of understand because that affects pretty much all classes but silent only affects casters.
You could run it the old school way - where fireball expands to fill the space - 33,000 cubic feet. Watch their reactions as the fireball blasts back at them when cast in a confined area...
Better idea inform them wild magic area flammable gases or what he said and have a very flammable item that you must bring back in tact otherwise I don’t know he won’t get paid
"My wizard can't use sleepwalking to get around needing to rest."
It takes at least one valuable piece of paper to get destroyed before players really start to think about that.
A really cool idea is an enemy that constantly learns the tricks of the players. It lets the players feel cool by unleashing an awesome plan but also forces them to adapt because they can't use it a second time.
A nice example was a custom big threat of hive-mind goblins - tl;dr it was a huge threat of rapidly reproducing, weak but constantly learning enemies. Players encounter a horde of them and the sorcerer obliterates them with fireball. Next time the goblins rush from different sides to get into melee among the party - a bunch dies to attacks of opportunity, but now AOE would hit the party as well.
Maybe moisture in the air could keep fireball out of use
Like if you are in a rainforest or such
But if you are in a place like a desert or even a swamp (due to methane) it spreads in the air better
Thing is they could backfire on you because it could spread right into your party creating a much bigger explosion
Make the area filled with breathable explosive gas. If they use thunder or fire damage, no matter if it's magical or not, it will explode dealing damage to all.
Maybe even in the middle of a fight somebody could hit Ella piece of the wall or maybe hit a can and Wala nobody is able to cast anything that is electric or fire or the whole place will go kaboom
flow block
status effect that completely blocks magic flow, stopping spells of any kind
is preventable by having the mana overload feat
(exclusive to monks with +3 dexterity and clerics of the order domain but some spells might cause it)
(all sorcerers have natural mana overload feat)
no magic for you
just gotta homebrew some creatures that can flow block
step 1: kill the whole party before the "final battle"
step 2: send them to hell
step 3: after a tiering adventure through the first bits of hell to get dome equipment, make them go past a river that had flow blocking leeches that suck your hp.
step 4: big reward aka a staff that can flow block without the need of being a monk or an order domain cleric
Or instead of making shit up with that flow block, I introduce you to: anti-magic field.
"How to counter Fireball as a DM"
Counterspell
I’m pretty sure a peasant that despises magic will totally know counter-spell
As soon as the paper was brought up my mind went to:
"Fool! That's what Mage Hand is for!"
"it's ok! The bard knows mending!" Yea I ain't trying to fix that bucko. Live with with thy consequences
ESCANOR YOU BASTURED... I love that scene
Player when informed of the documents they have to grab: *sweats profusely* Wizard and Sorcerer don't do it please
Wizard and Sorcerer: *looks at each other, looks at the paper, shrugs thinking it can be grabbed or saved by the Artificer with Mending*
Artificer: *Didn't have Mending prepared*
you failed mission. We weren’t able to recover the documents because you fools burned it up. You will not receive any payment in fact we are expecting 10 platinum from you
Obviously I can't use counterspell, I am saving that one for when the players try to use healing word on the downed barbarian.
Good advice, I like it, especially the condition one, blinding characters makes them have to think creatively! Have to say I don't like the word "counter" in the video title though, much as you said it wasn't about player vs DM for me it incites that vibe
I don’t care if I’m blind I cast fireball at level 20!
Haha I just slapped them in a submarine and the wizard learned the hard way that fire doesn't mix well with vehicles of any kind.
Actually in general I feel my campaign has been pretty balanced for magic. Can't take all the credit for that, the players have been wonderful about not trying to solve everything by just hitting it.with magic until it went away, whether combat, traversal or puzzles. All about balance, since I've given them just as many chances to shine and simply obliterate encounters.
Ok if I remember correctly if you choose school of evocation you can make creatures of your choice immune to your evocation spells so maybe they can use that on the paper
I don't think regular parchment counts as a creature sadly
Did I forget to mention the whole room was filled up of a flammable gas and the enemies all have blind ready and oh one more thing that piece of paper has a warranty containing counterspell they will activate immediately upon any other magic coming to contact with it
Yep the paper does not work at all. There was an enemy, with a map, in a POTIONS SHOP and my player cast fireball immediately. Almost had a TPK and about half the town square exploded.
"Just make important stuff flammable!"
Order of Scribes wizards and anyone with Transmuted Spell: "Not good enough, lad. Not nearly good enough!"
DM: There's the important paper, so no fireballs...
Sorcerer: Jokes on you! *Metamagic changes the damage type to be a Thunderball*
DM: you fell into my trap. Gasoline
Unfortunately, blinded doesn’t necessarily work as a counter measure to a caster casting fire ball. Fireball targets “a point within range” not “a point you can see”. Silence does work though, unless it’s an area of silence that they can move out of in 1 turn.
DM-Roll a D8
Oh your point exactly away from the enemy is straight towards your Clerk and ranger downing them both to the point of they are not gonna be able to help during this fight
Melee helps as well. When your enemies are in your face, exploding them might be a bad idea.
“Last one: Paper!”
“wat”
Mission failed you destroyed very valuable documents with no back ups. You will not be able to redo this mission
"Silence is deadly to spellcasters"
Laughs in sorcerer with subtle spell.
"Paper"
Order of the Scribes wizards represent! "Psychic Fireball"
Room is filled with plenty of grease buckets or oil lanterns
I don’t care how many exposes are in the room I cast miniature meteor
Warlocks: "I'm bout to end this man's whole career"
Me: "But DM, *I* cast fireball
OK you cast fireball when do your party because you’re blind and knock down the healer and the archer plus the tank gets a little bit of that damage in now is at 1HP leaving you as the only one standing
Counterpoint: Fireball does NOT require seeing your enemy.
I remember going into a storage room with a bunch of flammable elixirs, potions, phials - you name it.
And so does the people I used to play with.
*Good times.*
"I cast fireball"
"I am immune to Fire damage"
"Who decided that?"
“Use silence” me a sorcerer main: SUBTLESPELLLLLL
The paper idea is genius
_EVERYTHING CAN COUNTERSPELL._
*EVERYTHING.*
Mages? Counterspell.
Guards? Counterspell.
Wolves? Counterspell.
Counterspell? Counterspell.
Counterspell Counterspell Counterspell? Counterspell.
Paper?
*laughs in chaotic-evil*
SCORCHING RAY!
FIREBOLT!
BURNING HANDS!
I love as a dm making players think about resource management personally
Dm: Theres a piece of paper with a crucial piece of information on it, a fireball will destroy it.
Me, a sorcerer: *Yoinks ball of poison into room*
Oh, there’s a paper I should look at? I can’t hear you over the sound of
*FOR FIREBAAALLL!!!*
Homebrew way: The NPC casts Cryoball
Awfully bold words for somebody in fireball distance XD
I've watched a player burn a forest down before just for FUN, I doubt paper will stop them 😂
Ptsd secne here. My playeres decided it was to slow to kill the bandit orcs and goblins that were hiding in the forest so they torch it. And thats how it turned the campaign fron save the kingdom to conquer the kingdom. Good times.
"DM : A group of feys come to your party, seeking revenge for their forest.
Player : Pfff, feys are low CR creatures, it's going to be easy !
DM : They seem to be seven cindered dryads, really dangerous beings according to legends.
Player : Cindered Dryads ? I never eared of them, from which book ?
DM : ...
Player : Wait... They are not homebrewed, are they ?
DM : Just a head's up, they are immune to fire.
Players : *gasp*"
Consequences.
@@trebmal587 yesssss
@@aldahesu28 wow, ig thats one solution for that, lol
@@trebmal587 they were made consequently by you when you burned them their magic fused with the fire so now they’re only in immune to fire but they are to heal from fire so…
Yeah I usually use the environment to deincentivise using fireball as well. Most of the time when I tell the players that a building is flammable, there are innocents around or such an explosion might draw too much attention, they rethink their plan. Most of the time.
You hurl your Just Fireball at the Warlock. They fire back with Eldritch [BLAST]
Evocation wizard. Sculpt pocket of safety.
Use paper.
Me: laughs in scribe wizard changing the damage type to something else
Cold now you’re underwater acid now you’re standing right above you standing on a metal grate where acid would melt causing you to fall into electrified water electricity metal video will always be able to figure out ways to make sure you’re not spamming
@@thedbdentity2102 but what about psychic tho
Bold of anyone to assume that players will be aware of collateral damage
Did I forget to mention those very flammable paintings are worth millions so if you destroy them you will have to pay every single piece of platinum gold silver and copper and if you don’t you’ll be hunted down until you do pay up by extremely well equipped bountyhunters
@@thedbdentity2102 they then proceed to murder the bounty hunters and seduce the judge.
DM: "paper"
Me: *laughs in Kenku kamikazi*
The party is protecting a noble in their home. If they fireball, they light the whole building on fire.
The paper one is easy to counter. Someone just has to pick it up, and then no matter whether it's still in the blast, radius, it's gonna be okay - cuz spells don't damage items that are being worn or carried ;)
The DM probably will bend the rules to that particular thing is extremely fragile/flammable so if that enemy takes any fire damage it can be a 50-50 roll to a comes out a bit damaged or it comes out not at all as a pile of ash
@@thedbdentity2102 Here's the can of worms that opens: If a fireball can burn a piece of paper in my hand, why are my hair and my clothes still untouched? Why can't I set another wizard's beard on fire? Or their spellbook? Well, game balance of course. But then why does it work on a piece of paper I quickly shove into my bag, hold in my hand, or cover with my arm? The DM is gonna enjoy trying to explain this shit...
An important piece of paper isn't going to stop a fireball wizard.
Had fun sending the party I DM for into a sacred grove, infestated with swarms of rats: "And please don't harm the trees."
Their mind-controlling fireball-slinging wizard said:"Is this the punishment from the universe?"
Wild magic zones tend to do wonders for making mages less likely to cast spells...
I cas-it blows up in your face
Wizard: “I didn’t ask about the important piece of paper, I said I cast Fireball!”
DM: “okay you failed the quest and your employer is NOT happy.”
Wizard: “I cast Fireball at him!”
DM: “Uhh, he’s the prince?”
Wizard: “DID I STUTTER!?”
What usually works for me is opportunity cost. Fireball is at its best at level 5, but it's also when you only get two 3rd level spell slots. Bait fireball with one encounter with multiple weak enemies. If they used it too early in the dungeon, they won't have it now, and those weak enemies become a problem. If your characters also have counterspell, put a mage in the dungeon. If they spam fireball, suddenly they won't be able to use counterspell or dispel magic. Also, it gives you, the DM the chance to also cast fireball upon the PCs.
Monsters that absorb fire is also a good counter.
I had a player like that. So i started lining the humanoid bossess layers with bookshelves filled with books. They wanted to salvage knowledge....worked like a fire extinguisher every time