State Farm VS Roofing Contractors: Insurance Companies are "Hurt by Toilets"
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- State Farm lost to Roofing Contractor in court: Judges asks the best questions!!!!
State Farm In Court: Insurance Companies are "Hurt" by Roofing contractors toilets
Read about State Farm's loss over at: roofinginsight...
State Farm, Home Advisor, Angie's List, Yelp... The list just keeps growing. In this video State Farm is in a battle with 33 Carpenters out of Iowa. In summary, they didn't want to pay for some adjustments that were requested by 33 Carpenters as additional resources were needed to complete the residential project. Some of the items requested were a portable bathroom and a safety supervisor. State Farm denied both. One of the judges brought a valid point in the idea that residential home claims aren't that different from the car repair industry. However, typically car repairs don't get nearly as much push back with supplements and repair requests/items. When the question was asked to State Farms' attorney, she did not seem to have an answer..
Feel free to leave us a comment below on your experience with State Farm or someone you know. Did your contractor need to use the neighbor's bathroom?
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"And like a good neighbor", your claim is denied.
Its ok. They have plenty of plans to fit your budget and lifestyle. They'll get your money
Had that happened with a 2 week old car and a tornado and threatened a lawsuit after they denied the claim. Took 6 months to get it corrected as they tried to avoid court. The issue wasn’t the local branches (who were on my side) it was corporate. Corporate knew it was a losing battle as the local branch was honest AND knew that would be crucified locally.
You owe us a five dollar installment fee even though you paid in full, DENIED
“Like a crud neighbor, State Farm is unfair!”
“I uhh ahh eya there is a whole statutory scheme in this…”
I agree the insurance company is a scheme! It is all about scheming people out of there money.
State Farm 32 years, no claims. One claim during 33 year for $8k, cancelled policy.
i have state farm for home and auto. A couple weeks ago, a car ran into our house. It was a pretty hefty check for repairs. I'm hoping they don't drop me. I don't see why they would in this case, because the other insurance paid out. I don't understand how you can pay 10s of thousands of dollars over the year for insurance, and the second you need it, they can drop you. Thats fucked up.
Oh the Counsel for Allstate hit the nail on the head when she said, "We have this scheme here." We know you do. It's called organized crime.
I read this comment like 4 times and it made me laugh every single time.
When I make a joke like this people look at me like I’m a monster. Inspired!
The rationalization by the insurance company is hilarious. I renovated my sisters kitchen. Initially to wreck out the cabinets, flooring then paint, new floors, cabinets, countertops, with upgrades for electrical and plumbing. In the wreck out, it was discovered that there was black mold in the exterior wall. In removing the drywall, it was further discovered that that exterior wall was framed wrong, egregiously. And that the roof was sinking. As an original plan, none of the later discovery was in the original estimate. Yet further work was necessary to ensure a safe kitchen.
Original estimates are just that, estimates. In construction, problems arise during work. It's called discovery. Discovery changes estimates. Estimates get larger. This is an absolute fact in construction.
The arguments from the insurance lawyer are unsupportable and she's blind to reality.
Insurance companies don’t owe for framing incorrectly and in most cases black mold
@@GhilleGhille Then the contractual estimation should've included for the possibilities. Discovery should be stated, so no one gets blindsided.
@@alanrobinson4318 Yes, the contractor can put that on the estimate and request for a supplement. Likely to be denied or paid for by padding the estimate in other sectors.
@@GhilleGhille Again, documentation is necessary. While I agree that there's a lot of bs in the field, your phone has pics and vids. So those should go a long way to alleviate concerns. Also, said documentation, can be vital in backing up your bill. It's a pain in the a** to have to do this, but, between shady insurance companies and equally shady contractors, it's come down to the details.
@@alanrobinson4318 Yes, that's all necessary for a supplement. What I'm saying is that fucked up framing that was done incorrectly isn't covered per most policies and mold isn't covered unless it's the direct result of a covered water loss. You can document all you want, but if someone installed something incorrectly the only way it's getting paid is by accident or by not paying it but padding the estimate from the adjuster.
A tornado went through northern suburbs of Cincinnati about 25 years ago. State Farm rapidly stood out as trying to avoid payouts. A friend's father had a heavily damaged house that was shifted off the foundation. The foundation was also cracked and shifted. State Farm wanted to shift the house back onto the non-square cracked foundation, and ignore the now racked and non-square house. I think it took 3 years to settle with State Farm. Their name was totally ruined by their egregious actions.
Give it 5 years and people will forget and they’ll recover. Every insurance company is screwing people, so they’re all just trading customers
My family had statefarm home insurance for nearly 30 years, they had to file a claim once, was for tornado that caused roof damage, took 7 months for a check to show up, followed the very next day by a letter saying they where dropping my parents coverage. I have yet to have a positive interaction with anything to do with insurance
So, they paid out, got upset by the amount, and dropped their coverage because they wanted to avoid paying more in the future.
Government owned. These companies are told to tighten up and deny. Another thing is called the 80/20. 80% will take their check and run. 20% will pursue for a higher claim. I have yet to meet another who has still has their backbone and willing to speak up. I think those figures are inaccurate.
Insurance companies boil my blood. You can pay your premiums in good faith for years but when you file a claim they will do everything they can to not pay it, and even if they pay it they will immediately recoup their money by raising your premiums.
the only word for that is disgusting
I had up to 29 policies with State Farm over 38 years of insurance. They sent me a notice that my home owners insurance was to be canceled in ten days. The reason, I was declared DEAD on my credit report in a false report over ten years before. State Farm had my payments, car, liability and home policies. They took the money from my checking every month. My agent said I would have to solve the issue myself as it was not their problem. I solved the problem by going to Erie Insurance saving over $1,000.00 a year with much better coverage. After 38 years of paying these scammers I was booted by false information even though they took the money every month for those 10 years.
You should have sued them for taking 10 years of payments for the same reason the canceled your insurance. I guarantee you that they would have denied your claim if one was made in those 10 years
I would tell them "If I'm dead, then my estate wants a refund of all my policy payments for the past 10 years."
are you crazy you need to or should have sued them.
Not sure what kind of policy you have Bruce, but Erie is probably as bad as State Farm for homeowners, but auto is apparently pretty average
I dealt with SF for my roof for massive hail damage. The first adjuster had no clue about what to look for. The second one said the roof was beyond repair and said they would pay for a capover. I told him that no shingle manufacturer would warranty that and he would not be doing a capover on my roof. He finally agreed to a full removal and replacement but wanted to use 15# felt. Again I told him the manufacturer would not warranty that unless it was 30# felt and that I wanted a six nail installation. (I was a manager if a national lumber company).
Great video Dmitry, that State Farm Lawyer wanted her cake and eat it too. I have 40 years experience in the Collision Repair Industry and my family shop just sold after 50 years in business. I have first hand knowledge of what the Chief Justices were saying and see the issues coming fruition in the roofing industry now.
OSHA requires access to a toilet on every site. Ran into this with a security company I worked for the boss kept putting guys on sites with no facilities….right up till someone complained and he had to pay that fine.
So... the reason we have so many ridiculous safety rules in crafts and trades - many of which make it VERY hard to work through - is because INSURANCE COMPANIES demanded such truck. Now when they have to pay for the Safety Supervisor - suddenly its an unnecessary issue.
That safety monitor is required by OSHA when working on a roof. The fact State Farm didn't understand the osha hazwoper in industrial safety standards is beyond me! SHE also said do they really need a bathroom 🚻? Of course by law and once again OSHA says you must supply portable restrooms and hand washing stations on construction sites.
Exactly 👍
I've been roofing in California for two decades.. for one of the oldest roofing companies.. 1919.. we never had a safety inspector on the roof
@@davidbagley1783 as an authorized OSHA safety inspector who does random site walks every month I'd say just count yourself lucky. You need a safety plan in place a safety supervisor at your company who does these inspections weekly. If your not or your company is not doing them well good for you.
That's exactly what I was saying, lol
Yes you do need potable toilets . I bet she would be the first to complain if she worked in a business that was below her standards
My daughter’s muti-million dollar house burned down two years ago. The California State Auto Association (AAA) wanted to do a quick, but shoddy reconstruction. As a plumbing contractor myself, I do work for them as well as other insurance companies and see the dishonesty first hand. There has been an ongoing dispute between the two with no hope of moving back to their own home. In fact she just found another mistake by AAA in their favor of course. She paid for an outside adjuster to reappraise her jewelry and found an error of $142,000 in my daughter’s favor. This is just one of many in the last two years that AAA has made a “mistake” on. Two years and they still have not come to terms to begin the rebuilding process. I feel sorry for anyone who has a claim against an insurance company. If you’ve ever been in an auto accident, that’s very minor compared to a major loss!
What could she do? Maybe sue them? Take it to an attorney?
@@peterl3417
Peter, actually she is doing both of your suggestions. Thanks
Dave is making a lot of blanket statements other than 142k in jewelry. if someone actually has that amount of jewel they would have purchase receipts or debit/credit card statements for those purchases. sounds like your daughter is looking at this as a jackpot instead of indemnification. plumbers are the top 5 biggest snakes there are and you know it.
Cannot believe the insurance company is arguing against paying for a temporary toilet on site for the construction workers use. Were those workers suppose to relieve themselves on the neighbours’ lawns or in the bushes?
As a PA, Ive handled numerous claims with all of the well known and some not so well known companies. I can say from my experience that CSAA is without question, the most dishonest when it comes to homeowners claims.
It sounds like that law just needs to be put in the shredder. It clearly doesn't do what it is intended to or benefit anyone other than insurance companies who use it to skimp out on the bill.
Wow. I had a large tree come down on my roof from wind. Allstate and I agreed on an amount, and I got a big check from them. I did the work myself with rented tools, and pocketed the amount allowed for labor. Allstate paid for replacement where I was able to repair. Kaching. More money in my pocket, and my agent was fine with it. The process was financially beneficial to both the company and me.
Wow. The repair company contacted the insurance company saying additional work required. Insurance company paid, now going back saying transaction was illegal. Crazy. Happens everyday with auto and home repairs
Yes. When the tear down starts more damage is often found.
@@Tker1970 does addl damage found that was not part of the current damage covered by insurance?
This....was actually....more fun and interesting to watch than a John Grisham novel adaptation.
Fantastic video. Our company has dealt with State Farm, Allstate, Farmers', ad nauseum fighting to get our homeowners' roofs replaced with OBVIOUS and SUBSTANTIAL damage. In one case an elderly homeowner had paid premiums for 17 YEARS and she was denied. We worked with a public adjuster who finally got her roof replaced. It was an exasperating and absolutely unnecessary process.
Public adjusters are just as shady ass insurance companies. My house burned down and an "adjuster" told me I would NEVER get 100% of my property claim despite having a hundreds of thousands of old machinery. I ended up maxing it out ALL BY MYSELF.
@@chickenfarmer209 It sounds like you were dealing with a bad inspector, not a public adjuster. Of course even with adjusters there are outliers and of course it depends on the public adjuster's talents, honesty, and oversight of staff. I've been involved with hundreds of insurance claims and I would say about 10% the PA was unable to reach an agreement with the insurance company, even after months of back-and-forth. If my home had issues I would DEFINITELY use a public adjuster. Their fees are included in the price of the project (paid by the insurance company, not the homeowner who only pays their deductible).
I can't stand Insurance companies , Yet being a general Contractor for over 40 years, I have found the most unscrupulous of all sub-contractors , as well as "repair contractors " are ROOFING contractors. I'm not sure which is worse .
Funny. Im a carpenter and Ive found that general contractors are the most unscrupulous ones on the job site..
It's been standard practice with big insurance companies to deny claims the first go around. They try stall tactics and try to starve out and frustrate policy owners until they quit trying to make their legal and just claim.
State Farm is like a good neighbor and will send their people and teams to an area then low ball the homeowner. They don't want to talk to a contractor. State Farm has a track record for their questionable behavior.
cost of repairs = $5K, cost of litigation = $15K
I’ve had USAA for 37 yrs. I’ve been in 3 accidents, one being my fault. I called USAA to file a claim, no problem all parties taking care of. Bastrop TX Complex Fire, firefighter drained my 30k gallon pool to fight fire, pool damage, smoke damage in house, no electricity for 2 weeks, was evacuated, rotten food in the refrigerator, and USAA fixed the pool, took care of the smoke damage in the house and told me to tape up my refrigerator put it on the curb and go get a new one. USAA covered everything. My neighbors around me had issues for months with their insurance company not paying out.
Not all insurance companies are crooks! One morning I woke up to a flooded basement. Farmers insurance had a disaster cleanup company at my house in less than an hour. Replaced the drywall and all the carpet and painted the entire basement as good as new at zero cost to me.
So if your looking for new or a change of insurance give Farmers a look. A customer for life!
They didn't want to have to pay additional damages from mold.
You sound like a paid advertisement for them. Are you their damage control? I think you're an agent.
Farmers id honestly thr only insurance company I've ever heard consistent positive reviews of. And I'm iver here still paying state farm fir some dumb. Reason.
@@shawnmccormick6381 No I'm not an agent! You could have found that out if you weren't so lazy!
The sad part of those claims is, water damage. They want to blame you for the claim so, rates will go up. I don't agree with that idea because the weak part of the plumbing was repaired which means the risk of another leak is much less yet they want more money for the future of less risk? Sorry, the rates that prevailed just before the broken pipe or whatever took that risk and now the future carries much less risk of water damage claims.
Recently, I heard from agents that if you have a 40+ year old home and still have the same plumbing and electrical, they want it upgraded or pay a higher rate. Some will not write new policies unless the old home has newer plumbing because they are under the impression that all pipes will fail at around 40 years old or older. I know of tens of thousands of old homes with no plumbing issues of that nature but I have heard of newer homes with newer plumbing that do leak. Usually its the type M copper, the thinner wall or gauge pipe, that springs pinhole sized leaks in just a few years from installation.
My basement was flooded due to a backup on the Storm sewers. My Insurance covered 100% up to the total amount of the Rider! No questions, no auditing, accepted and covered! Then again I deal with a smaller Insurance company.
Congratulations, Dimitry, on another very important and helpful video. Btw, Ed Fako is a personal friend of mine. I am a Michigan public adjuster with over 10 years experience in several states. Please Keep producing this quality of videos.
Ed is awesome! Know him for years
It should be noted: Insurance companies duty is to uphold the terms of the contract with allegiance to the company's shareholders period.
That being said the insured is burdened with being informed, knowledgeable in matters relative to the claim and making certain the repairs are timely and thorough while meeting code the law and industry standards as established by all applicable agencies to include the contractors boards. The idea that the insurance company is firmly standing by the homeowner with the insureds absolute interest as paramount is not just ridiculous but is a pipe dream. Insurance companies ONLY obligation by law is to fulfill the terms of the contract period. therefore the relationship the contractor has with the insured is critical so as to meet the aforementioned goals the homeowner and contractor identify. This is why you always want to engage the professional services of a licensed contractor.
I honestly see both sides. I know people who do repair work for insurance, and I have first hand witnessed them inflating their costs to get more money from the insurance company.
But I've also seen people genuinely needing help, and insurance companies refusing to pay.
So I don't think this is just the fault of one or the othet
This is very true. I have worked on both sides as an adjuster/inspector and neither side is perfect.
But insurance companies make money by not paying out. So it’s in their interest to deny or pay the minimum
It’s usually better for the insurance company to get dicked over though. They have it coming.
agree
The insurance agent is not your friend. Repeat it. Neither is the contractor. They are extensions of your business. Choose wisely and make your intentions known.
If the legislator/Insurance Co. wants business owners to be public adjusters then change the law! Seems to me they left it like it is as a loophole for Insurance Companies! Also as a contractor its my job to drum up business for myself. Also my job is to let the person/homeowner know what other pending problems have arised. Does that make me a "Public Adjuster"! State Farm also had there own "Adjuster" come out to look at the damage! They also agreed to upgrade the cost funds of the job w/o going back to look at it! "HOW MUCH LEEWAY IS THIS GOV. GONNA KEEP GIVING TO THE INSURANC Companies!
Insurance company is whining because they got caught not protecting their policy owners. A contractor came in, found damage and submitted it!! Insurance company already knows what areas are hit by storms. Furthermore, the roofer is the expert in what is damaged and how to fix it. Homeowners aren’t. Insurance companies aren’t. Thats why insurance companies want to deal with homeowners, vs contractors.
100%
Just have your client email it from their personal email lol.
No, the roofer is not the expert. Many are scammers. I can assure that adjusters are for more knowledgeable and training than any roofing contractor. No legitimate roofer goes door to door, cold calls, etc. Never assign the claim to the contractor. Huge red flag.
I’m surprised SF legal hasn’t sent you a cease and desist letter for using their name in the video or mentioning same in a negative context. I’ve had experience with SF (long ago) using their name in my PA website, among others as insurance companies we had experience with. They are hyper vigilant in going after / warning any who use their name in a public manner. Even when plaintiffs prevail against them they require that the record is sealed as a condition of settlement in many cases that may used to give them a bad reputation. I’m enjoying the video.
They can't do anything about it really. They can send all the letters they want, but this is a matter of public record. Additionally, they can require a lot in settlements, but if they lose a case (or win for that matter) they can't require anything outside the court order, and that will never protect them from free speech.
"The ceo is a convicted felon, he can't get a license". If you paid your debt to society, why can't you rejoin society? So basically a felony is a life sentence.
are you asking why they won't let convicted felons unfettered access to people's homes?
@@plebiansociety I don't know where you got that at all
@@plebiansociety Nobody gets unfettered access to people's homes.
@@plebiansociety
Where exactly did you get that from? Lol! Also are YOU saying that if a person is convicted of a felony that they are incapable of EVER paying their debt back to society? Even if they have already “completed”their sentence and are done with all court cost/fines?
@@drewlcollier once a felon your screwed its an unfair system. If you are a felon its hard to get a job but its damn near impossible to get any kind of job that offers advancement. your only way out is to start a business but thats hard to do when you cant make a decent wage.
Deny, Delay and Defend, thats what all insurance firms live by, so they can keep their funds longer
Omg I love the attorney arguing about the safety monitor and the toilet, I guess the insurance company’s attorney has never read the OSHA rules regarding what is required by law. Whoops
🤔I owned a small roofing/construction company for 17 yrs..I had a small crew of 5 including me..In Wisconsin we didn't have a safety monitor that needed to be on site 24 hrs..All that was required by OSHA is we had to be "Tied off" to an anchor point with a fall arrest system (a harness) Also no I never rented a "Porta potty" Yes OSHA requires it unless you to have "Access" to use a bathroom..If the homeowner let's us or the keys are in the truck & there's a bathroom at the gas station, park, laundromat, ect..In this case the company definitely jacked up the price by adding to the price multiple times..I know how insurance jobs work & how a normal bid on a job works..Id like to know 1 roofing company who's gonna put a Porta potty in a bid & a safety monitor for 24 hrs a day for a residential roof..They would be out of business really fast because having an extra $2000 more than everyone else's bid..It only happens in insurance jobs..Also $77,000 for a roof & siding 😳 Average tear off & new roof is $10,000-$14,000 Average house with vinal siding $8,000-$12,000 So how in the hell did they come up with 3X that 🤯 Oh ya it's an insurance job🤐
Right. It was a ridiculous amount and that kind of greediness will cause insurance rates to raise for everyone in that area. State Farm uses Xactimate for estimates and what that does is gives the average cost for roofing per sq in that area. So if you put in 30 year shingles it will put in the average cost roofers charge for that per sq in that area. That includes labor, supervisors and everything to do with replacing a roof for the most part.
What this contractor probably did was put in the 30 yr shingles and then added a bunch of supervisor hours, toilet and other stuff to fluff up the price. This is very common especially for storm chaser contractors. Local contractors are always the best way to go.
There is one thing that really bothers me about someone being a felon. The system completely destroys a persons life if they are convicted of a felony. The person is obviously sentenced after the case if he/she is found guilty, why does the system continue to sentence the person over and over again? If a person has a felony, serves his/her time than that should be it. Case closed, don’t bring it up again unless the person has reoffended and found guilty. If not that I don’t believe that anyone should ever hear about the felony again. Also, if a person is charged with a crime by a cop, even if the incident that the cop charged the person with did not happen, it still shows on the persons record even if they have not been convicted of the crime. Even if the charge is found to be frivolous and dismissed than the charge is still on that persons record, this is not right. So much is wrong with the US justice system, if I ever get a lot of money I will hire a firm to change these bullshit laws. And for anyone that thinks that police don’t charge people will bullshit charges, think again, it happens everyday in America.
Tell you what, you go hire a guy a convicted sex offender to come work at your day care.
Thank you bro
Why SHOULDN'T it carry forward? Why shouldn't the rest of the world know of this person's criminal history and have that information made available to them in order to make a fully informed decision about whether they wish to interact with him or her? Why should criminals be able to conceal their felonious past from the rest of the (law-abiding) public? Why should a felon's invented "rights" trump the members of society who have not transgressed? Your priorities are bizarrely misplaced.
@@chuckschillingvideos bro is more criminals in this world without records. You better believe that. You see them at work. Most serial killers are family men and Suburbs. Where is the informed choice off of that. What about all the war crimes but we salute Soldiers . What about the cops killing and getting away with it? They criminals but it’s gets swept under the rug and they get honors. What about the sex offenders working at daycare that never get caught until years later. The list can go on where is the informed decision at with them? Just wondering?
@@solskengroupllp2758 Convicted sex offenders cannot be around children.
That women from state farm is the kind you want to find and make her see the error of her ways VERY FORCEFULLY! If state farm and other insurance companies can not find anyone brave enough to be an adjustor then we would have done our job!
Seems to me that a Home Owner has a right to appoint any representative they wish to represent them even if SF hadn't sent the letter inviting contractor interaction.
Parents had State Farm for 50 years never made a claim even when they had a break in but never claimed. A State Farm agent called my mom and said we’re dropping you because it’s about that time for a claim to be made. My dad recorded the call I couldn’t believe it.
I don’t believe you because an agent wouldn’t make a call to cancel someone. It would come from an adjuster.
Honestly my heart breaks for insurance companies having to pay money out!!😂🤪 and I think having a portable toilet for the roofers or construction people is a must!
If you ever have 10 guys replacing your roof or an interior remodel, you would want one for sure .
@@bobscruggs8886 I agree
Like a good neighbor State Farm’s potty is there!!
I Had roof damage during a severe storm in Duluth Minnesota. The State Farm adjuster was wonderful and paid for everything except for my deductible. Can't speak for all cases, but mine was fair and quick.
They didn’t even know the roof was damaged but the roofer going door to door 3 months later finds 77,000 in damage. I’m all for getting paid what your owed but man was that a gold plated roof
I was thinking the same thing,how many squares is the roof. I can't imagine that much woodwork, unless the roof had been leaking.
Yea that fact jumped out at me
ya that is beyond ridiculous.
The video didn’t discuss what the original estimate and scope of work was. We know the final costs billed to insurance, after the contractor found additional damage, which increased the costs by $15k. We also know that State Ferm sent their adjuster back out to the sight, to review the findings of the contractor, which were subsequently agreed with and approved.
What Intake issue with, is the contractor billing State Farm for toilets and safety costs, which are part of the contractors cost of doing business. The cost to the contractor to comply with the law, whether safety, permitting, etc., are the responsibility of the contractor.
@@robburross7413
If that's the issue I agree with state farm
its refreshing to see this in Iowa
because most of the time the state does not stick up for the people
that said when my family took a cast to the Iowa supreme court they did right by us and bitch slaped the city that hurt us
This all boils down to control, and who is acting in the best interest of the homeowner? On the insurance side, the insurance company may feel that the contractor is attempting to be paid thousands of dollars for unnecessary work, and with the contractor in essence negotiating FOR the homeowner, it makes their job harder to limit the scope of the covered claim. On the homeowner's side, they may believe the insurance company is trying to get out of paying all or part of a valid claim. If, as a homeowner, if I were put in the middle of a situation like this, I would be inclined to hire an expert roofer to offer their opinion as to the necessary scope of the work.
Having moved to South Florida a year ago, and a retired attorney, it is my observation is that a lot of the blame for insurance companies pulling out of Florida is due to shady contractors and enabling lawyers, telling greedy homeowners that they can get them a free roof
Absolutely right..I live in central Florida and have seen MANY people get brand new roofs when they only needed small or no repairs..the insurance companies share blame, though , for allowing it to happen and honoring claims apparently without verifying them..
Yes,. as an interior contractor I have seen this with roofers and public adjusters .
if you pay for replacement value, how is that shady or greedy? Sounds like you work in insurance. Nothing more dishonest than lawyers and the insurance business.
@@richardprofit6363It's so someone who pays for replacement value shouldn't get what they pay for?
@@chickenfarmer209 not in isurance, roofing, or lawyering..don't know what you mean..
In my Automotive shop we do not accept any insurance of any kind to much to deal with and we got tired of dealing with customers whose insurance would not pay for what needed done and they tell you what you are going to get and we are still very busy if you want shoddy work then go with your insurance and get what you deserve!
come on...$77k for hail damage? sounds like a dirty roofing company more than a bad insurance agency
It depends on many things,including the size of the house and what type of siding was on the house that had to be replaced.
And the owner of 33 carpenters is a Felon.....what do you expect.
@@TheGregWallace Interesting
@@davidh6818 its a roofing company,,, they replace shingles not siding, i could see $20-25k, but the jump to 77k is a bit ridiculous
@@TheGregWallace the owner is a shyster who hired a contractor, the only one who speaks english, most generally; to come in for a lesser degree of pay and under the table to replace the roof on a customer's house or the boss's house? The boss being the homeowner and the customer at the same time. These weak azz bosses/homeowners paying for services on their safe haven from the outdoor elements, think their employees who they did not realize that none of those 15 individuals are going to be there for their customer service needs that of which being a correct and proper quailty install that meet the manufacture satisfactory direction of installation.
14 years of roofing a person will see a lot and learn a lot if they choose to engage their minds to do so.
$1000 bucks I don't have to place a wager that this was in fact a large group of people of being actual family or in laws or nothing to any of them, except a financial break in their share of the cost of rent from those other 14 that are also living in the same and most likely 2 bedroom dingy house where roache infestation occurs as there isn't enough after under cutting bids out from under the ones who take pride in their work, which forces them converge like sardines and able to send some back to where fled from so they can be like Navin R. Johnson, in the flick "The Jerk" with Steve Martin; by sending a note with a few dollars telling them how great their are doing and how they will send more next time while those particular people are at the same time taking food off the table from those bids they undercut forcing those smaller and most reliable companies out of work, which robs them of food off their table. Hatfield and McCoy's? Sentence of death, for theft of a single pig of many meals. But now, this nation caters to those that are ripping off citizens who work hard to provide for their families of also, many meals.
How many do you encounter on a daily basis that are weak and don't rise up with a backbone with the don't tread on me mindset, like the American motto was. Was, because now? It's now: eww don't touch me. Bunch of lost and blind pansies and that is what it is until you question what is. 👆
State Farm is soooo MAD that the contractor's let the unsuspecting normal homeowner know that their house was damaged and that State Farm was responsible to pay for it. Great legal case and excellent clarifying questions by the justices.
I had to fight USAA to get my roof replaced. It was a terrible fight. They said because of where I lived they couldn't provide me a contractor. But then they said they didn't like the contractor I had picked out. The adjustor from USAA showed up to my house to measure the roof WITHOUT a tape measure. My contractor saw the lady stepping it off.
The house got under sized and the garage was over sized. Stay away from USAA home insurance.
Damn I love my USAA insurance, sorry for your bad experience.
They use a satellite computer app to measure the roofs now. My adjuster recently didn't use a tape measure either... Nor did the roofing contractor...
@@vdcjr she had nothing in her hand.
nice try they were the best in my experience
@@johnhamburn3845 you got lucky
In my view, the defense screwed up because it is an invalid assignment on other grounds. Usually such a contractor agreement with a homeowner says something like "we will replace your roof for whatever the insurance company pays". This however is not an agreement because there is no meeting of the minds as to the essential terms of the contract. In this case the price/cost is an essential term which is missing because the language "for whatever the insurance company pays" is not specific enough or certain enough to be a meeting of the minds.
As to whether or not the agreement was illegal, most state statutes make it a crime to adjust a claim without an adjusters license. In this case the contractor could be said to have been adjusting the claim because the contractor was determining the amount of damage. But, this is best left to the state attorney to determine if they want to prosecute a contractor for such a crime. The issue should not be brought up in a civil court because, as argued by the claimants attorney, anyone estimate to repair any damage, including those in a car accident, would fall under the same principle and be illegal and therefore invalid.
Wow this makes me so happy they had us do a reroof job. Then when the extras for the rot came up they refused to pay near 5k
When State Farm screwed over customers/contractors after the series of hurricanes in 2005 (i think it was 2005) I decided we would never be a state farm customer.
“That’s how it’s supposed to be. The homeowner is the one negotiating the claim, not the contractor.”
So what they’re saying is they want people who don’t have any knowledge or expertise in home repair to negotiate the repairs for their home. How strange…
A contractor has every right to inspect the property for the insured (its their property) and to be contracted by the insured, as it's the insured's right, per policy, to have their contractor of choice. The contractor is absolutely within his rights to supplement any differences they find while inspecting the property so they can make the correct repairs. This is also explained on page 2 of most State Fraud's estimates, that the contractor should send them a supplement for the insurance approval before the work is carried out. It doesn't take a PA to discuss the supplement/repairs with the insurance company or to write an estimate for those differences. The things pointed out by this state fraud attorney are ridiculous, even according to state fraud's own supplemental guidelines.
The problem is that the contractor is the one to benefit by submitting false information regarding the extent of damage found during their inspection.
Maybe insurance companies should be barred from being public companies
Oh no, someone knocked on their doors. What a crime says state farm the criminal syndicate.
I have been an insurance contractor for many years. There are good insurance companies and there are bad insurance companies. State Farm, without a doubt, falls into the second category. People purchase their insurance because they are cheaper than other companies. When it comes time to place a claim, State Farm delays payment and refuses to pay for repairs that are legitimate. Many contractors in our area will not take any State Farm claims.
The last State Farm claim that I handled took over 2 years and over 15 different State Farm adjusters to complete.
Great book written about the history of the insurance claims process is "Delay, Deny, Defend".
Why would a homeowner who knows squat about roofing, be forced to try to fight for the repairs? The argument is ridiculous. The insured have a right to have someone who knows roofing fight for their roofing claim.
Like a good neighbor, State Farm don't care
So, wait. Roofing company owned by a convicted felon rolls up on a homeowner after a hailstorm and says that their roof might be damaged. Homeowner had no reason to believe that their home had been damaged by the storm, but ok, doesn't cost me anything, go look.
Convicted felon says yeah, your roof needs fixing. Fine. What's the cost? Convicted felon says $x. Homeowner submits claim, insurance company says fine, fix it.
Convicted felon starts job, then says oops! More damage that we found after we started, it will now cost $x+. Insurance company says OK, change approved.
Convicted felon continues job, then finds MORE damage to the tune of $75,000.
Insurance company now says hold up. We need to take a closer look at this.
Convicted felon sues the insurance company.
So much is wrong with this.
Okay, let's get this right?
'33 carpenters' is a single private entity. A business named "33 carpenters"
This is NOT a class action.
'State Farm' is a single private entity. It is an insurance company, named "State Farm" and not an insurance company, or farm, owned by the State.
Fuck me, US law is complicated!
And it went all the way to the state supreme court... I'm sure 33 carpenters paid a lot of money for this case and has a whole lot of projects they roofed without payment hoping to establish case law with this particular case that will get them paid out on the others.
I have State Farm for car insurance. A few years ago I totaled an older Camry with like 130,000 miles, State Farm accidentally sent me 10,000 for it. 😂 I thanked them for their due diligence on my claim. I paid 2200 for the car when I bought it.
It's very fashionable and cool to lambaste insurance companies. And yet were it not for them, none of us would be able to acquire assets bought on credit. None of us would have health insurance. None of us would be able to drive a vehicle without creating a massive escrow set aside to settle any potential torts we might commit with our vehicles. Insurance companies make modern living possible.
Oh yes, without insurance companies, we would not be able to draw breath. Right. And of course, everyone here is criticizing insurance companies for their very existence, rather than for the abuses that many of them perpetrate. Right. (Though I must grant you that without health insurance, we wouldn't have health insurance. )
I’m not sure of the legality of this whole mess, who’s right or wrong, however I think anytime someone comes knocking on your door soliciting work, maybe you just take their info and not hire them on the spot. That seems shady to me. Aren’t you supposed to call the insurance company first and have them look at it, approve the work and the contractor then go from there…sounds like some ambulance chasing
In a way it is ambulance chasing. Anytime there’s a natural disaster, both repair companies and insurance companies flood the area trying to get the best deals. But even if a repair company solicits a job, the estimate is sent in and the insurance company sends out an adjuster. Once all parties agree to the repairs and cost, the repairs happen.
It sounds like in this case the roofing company submitted their finding and the insurance approved the work. No repairs were started until the first estimate was approved. It’s the two updated repair estimates for more money that the insurance company is fighting (or at least the third one).
its a actually better to have a contractor to be there that knows damage. cause an insurance company will do absolute best not to pay
@@GhostDrummer "We had to replace all the siding because the color didn't match" sounds like something the owner learned in the bighouse.
@@johnathanhiggins7780 So would you go to a mechanic and automatically pay 5k to replace your transmission because your car started slipping a little assuming they'll just pay up after the fact? No, this whole thing seems sleezy. I've watched a few videos on this topic the last couple days and it seems like it is ripe for exploitation. That said, bargain basement insurance is terrible and only really good for checking the box to qualify for a mortgage, kind of like liability collision auto insurance. You know if you ever make a claim they're going to fight you tooth and nail.
In California, when any kind of permitted construction is started, most of the local cities require temp restrooms exclusively and temporary fencing off the property depending on the scope of the work as a requirement. State Farm should know this as a standard process. The problem I see is why the damage took over a year to be repaired. I also understand a few things or two about solicited insurance covered damages from "public adjusters" is that they will inform the insureds that the recent hail storm may have left some damage that don't know about however, the real idea for these public adjusters is to get paid 10% for handling the claim with their insurance company. They have an incentive that the damages are higher because they advertise or inform the insured that their fee for services will likely get covered in the estimate of repairs or if they do the work, they will absorb the 10% which is probably another reason why State Farm has a fowl taste about how this claim got started. The facts are clear, there's nothing wrong with the contractor or public adjuster or in this case they are both, dealing with the insurance company but its going to cost their insured 10% of the total insurance payment. State Farm is simply suggesting that the second and third supplement of repair is bloated with junk fees to help cut the commission for the insured and increase their fees. Public adjusters are known for inflating repair costs for the above reasons, they want to collect their 10% and they aim to help cover that cost for their customer. Most public adjusters are not really advisable until the insured first deals with their insurance company and has negative results. The big scam with public adjusters is "smoke damage" from local forest fires or the like. They actually mail out post cards seeking customers who might not know if they have smoke damage from a local fire. Once they get their hands on a customer, the entire interior of the home and maybe the exterior will be considered "damaged" in some way that had it not been for that post card in the mail, the insured would have never considered they had any damage to claim. It would be very easy to claim in and out, damage and $20,000 worth of cleaning, window coverings, bedding, shampoo, painting, etc. to remove "smoke" damage.
State farm payout for the cost of the damage done.
What's wrong with a toilet being available?
Measures taken to prevent falling off a roof may reasonably include a safety supervisor
Statefarm management needs to be dismantled and reworked…or just remove the place entirely…sooo many negative things are said and it’s reputation is in shreds…it’s unimaginable they are somehow still in business…gotta have protests or something about insurance places like this and fight for change because of how they treat people..disgusting management there absolutely inhuman
I think the justices thought process on the post loss from the date of damage correlation was valid. Then the twist of tortfeasor to garner the assignment of claim diverts the homeowner from being sued is ingenious. I’m terms of contract law, consideration has been met.
As a contractor of 43 years I understand State Farms position. The toilet is mandatory is some instances but predatory contracting goes on all the time with initial knocks on the door. Not saying 33 contractors is one of those but many states on their consumer affairs websites urge homeowners to do due diligence on contractors who practice this way. I have dealt with many insurance companies and yes, you have to play the game in many instances to make sure the customer gets "like for like product matching/replacement".
My opinions include several conclusions, the first being the insurer attacked the issue of the assignment because it knew it had no valid way to refute the estimate at the core of the case. State Farm IS disadvantaged by the assignment because:
A) The contractor is much more experienced and knowledgable than the insured .
B) The contractor is financially better situated to resist an insurance company's delay, deny, and defend strategy, if that is employed
The legal argument by State Farm appears to be bad faith with respect to this issue based on:
A) An appeals decision in favor of the insurer results on unjust enrichment: State Farm knew or should have known that the statute of limitations had run out on the policyholder, so winning this case meant there could be no recovery under the policy for this claim.
B) State Farm invited the contractor to contact it, so arguing the contractor has no right to contact State Farm is disingenuous, at best, bad faith at its's worst.
C) State Farm negotiates the scope and costs of claims with contractors and body shops across the country, all day, every day.
Full disclosure- my career spanned 38 years, including experience as a STATE FARM adjustor, claim superintendent, and Agent.
The Judges did an excellent job digging in to the real questions and reached a just decision.
Sounds like they are mad that they had to pay out WHAT THEY ARE IN BUSINESS TO DO!
These insurance company’s usually price the repairs approx half of what it really cost to do…
**Customer pays insurance company in case something happens**
**Something happens**
Customer: Hey, something happened, you need to pay.
State Farm: **Shocked Pikachu Face**
This is not State Farm being the bad guy....This is all about the contractor, State Farm took their estimate then paid it. Then the contractor says "oh we missed this and it's going to cost more" so State Farm paid them again....Then the contractor goes, Oh! We need more money again!......They were milking the insurance and would have kept doing it.....
To the point of the portable toilet, in some states (not sure on Iowa), it is required by law that a contractor have one on a job site, typically with new build but could be for any large renovation whether interior or exterior. I’d assume that it is true of the safety personnel too…per OSHA. If little miss State Farm looked into what contractors are legally obligated to do by looking at OSHA regulation and local UDC maybe that would help.
I’m not sure why or how they can reject a claim after they approved it once with the claim the contractor isn’t a public adjuster the contractor didn’t do the adjustment State Farm does those they show up look at the damage do a estimate of cost to repair and issue a adjusted check so it was State Farm who was the adjuster not the contractor
Love the fact that State Farm is getting the "screws tightened".
State Farm dropped me COLD after a ticket I received. I wasn't speeding, reckless, or intoxicated. It was the first one in over 10 years. Prior to that I had two..one moving and a parking ticket.
Since then friends that have them, have had nothing but trouble getting claims.
Why would Residential contractors not be legally allowed to take post loss assignments? Why was this law created? Out of fear the contractor would not give a reasonable estimate to the insurance company?
I would guess to reduce "ambulance chasing" from bad faith contractors.
In Texas, the original thrust behind requiring an adjuster (public or insurance) to hold a license was that without one any discussion as to the rights and obligations of the parties to the specific policy at issue (coverage) might constitute the unlawful practice of law. In a sense, the license grants a narrow exception to that prohibition. The negotiation of a claim's amount of loss, in Texas, is not, generally, considered the practice of law as long as the parties limit the discussion to the extent of damage, the proper method of repair, and the cost of the proper method of repair without discussing coverage. Of course, each state's laws and regulations are unique and vary.
Dmitry out here doing gods work, there is nothing more boring than trigger happy contractual litigations but this is what the algorithm brought me today
The irony of insurance co complaining about escalating cost…
It's called hypocrisy.
it seems the contractor was gouging the insurance company and they were like, nooooo.
"Like a good neighbor...State Farm is There" Right?
Right?
Being paid for supervision would be nice, I supervise the job on every roof I sell just because I like to do so. But not something I am paid for time wise.
We pay for the work. Not for you to sit there and watch
@@thetruth7216 that's like saying you pay for the work on a power plant but not for supervision or management. It's all part of it, and many do supplement for it. I just don't bother, it's almost more than sitting and watching but.. Can't expect an insurance shill to be objective.
@@travisedwards9983 it’s like going to McDonald’s and paying for them to have a supervisor on sight…. Cost of business , y’all are all just so entitled.
@@thetruth7216 entitled? No, just not low life crooks trying to squeeze every dime out of everyone while providing a subpar service like.. well insurance companies. Oh and xactimate?? You do know that even they say the price is just a suggestion and that the true cost is what the contract and owner agrees on. Hell we should all just start doing lump sum quotes to prevent insurance from ripping us all off. We have any ex insurance employees in the company, we know exactly how they operate.
@@travisedwards9983 hey brotha, not really trying to be a dick. I get where y’all come from 100%… y’all just need to understand we do what we’re able to… if love to give o/p on all jobs if I could :/ unfortunately our carriers don’t allow it
As a construction worker we hate to pull up to a job and see no porta potty. We have ten guys and it's embarrassing to go to the woods or ask to use the home owners bathroom. Usually the woods are private property and being in the southern United States we have a variety of insects and snakes. We actually had a builder say why do you need a portable toilet when you have all this nature. Well if you ever relieved yourself in the woods around here you know about chiggers, redbugs, seed ticks, regular ticks, mosquitos and my favorite, copperheads and cottonmouths. Thing is it cost around $200 a month for portable toilet service here. That's nothing compared to the medical cost for Lyme disease, malaria, snakebite or getting into a fireant bed.
I know insurance is shady,but the idea of a roofing company going around the neighborhood asking to inspect the victims of storms just doesn’t sit well either.
And you would be shocked how far some are willing to go in creating damage. You can have dents the size of half a pencils eraser and they literally think that those impacts could damage a roof which is made to withstand impacts.
My question is the brought up the siding didn't match the roof, whose fault is that and then the insurance company had to cover also the siding? That's a whole different animal that should have been brought up.
You get the contactor to be there when the adjuster is there to catch things missing.
Also, this woman does not understand construction law. Law is toilet facilities must be avaiable to workers onsite. Sinilarly, roof safety monitor is also legally required jf other acceptable alternatives are not employed. State Farm Is Acting As If Only Their Certifications & Rules Are All There Is. Not so.
The State Insurance Commissioner is not overseen by anyone. He answers to no government official. He is a former insurance agent and when his term is up, he goes back to being an insurance agent. So now you see why he writes laws that benefit his line of work. It’s like they are writing monopoly laws that only they benefit from. Insurance companies love to take your premiums but they hate to pay anything out. I filed a claim on my house once for a home break in. I had Snake Farm. The very FIRST WORDS they said to me when I walked in to file a claim was this, “You know this will raise your rates if you file this claim.” I said not if I drop you after you pay it!
I had USAA they managed to get out of a $30k + claim by using wording from a old Homeowners policy when we actually had a renters policy. This was for a burglary of the house! We were trying to sell. I'll try to make this as short as possible. We moved out of a home we owned because the neighborhood was going down hill fast! We called and asked how do we protect what we are storing in the home? They said since we would not be living in the house and it will be vacant the Homeowners policy would be void after 30 days. So fine what do we do? They said a rentera policy would cover stored items as long as we maintain the integrity of the building. But the home itself would not be covered, I would check on the house as often as I could, one day I found someone broke in and stripped all the plumbing and (new) electrical they didn't take any stored items this time around because they were now in the dark. I knew this was not insured so I called the police they did a report nothing ever came of This. I then went to Lowes and purchased a bunch of plywood and 2x4s and screwed the doors and windows on the first floor shut from the inside. The only way in was a steel door at street level that goes into the basement. A few weeks later I checked on the house and someone probably the same person/s that knew what was still in the house got up to a high window and made entry, that had to remove everything through the basement garage because the metal door was to small and the other windows and doors were still sealed. I again call the police and they never showed up? I went to the police station demanding they look! But they area was so bad it wasn't something they wanted to deal with. So.I called USAA and reported the losses , after 6 months of phone tag they refused the claim based on the old inactive homeowners policy . I tried finding a lawyer in Pennsylvania to start a bad faith claim against them but ran out of time, 2 years is the deadline to go after them I could not find a lawyer to take the case. This could have been very profitable for any lawyer since they would get their fees on top of Feb losses per the Bad Faith laws. So we bit the bullet on it. If we ever win a Powerball we will self insure and tell the insurance companies we have to shove it where the sun doesn't shine . Sorry it was long 😒 I could write a book about what they did to us
Way back when I was roofing we'd often find rotted skip sheeting or plywood that had been happening for years. The owner always wanted discovered damage like that fixed and done right.
Saying they needed to re-side the whole house because of color matching is the part that bugs me. I've heard of replacing the whole roof because the style of shingle was discontinued....never because of color matching.
Match laws usually include color. Checkered rainbow roofs or siding devalues the house.
To the female judge that piped up with her 2 cents "bet the neighbors appreciated that one" ..... it is not relevant what the neighbors appreciate, like, or tolerate. It is about this homeowner and this homeowner only. IF the contracted work takes the better part of a day, the home owner has a few choices:
1) to let the contractor(s) that have to pee/poo come into their home and use their toilets, or
2) rent a port-a-potty for the day as an expense to doing the work, or
3) tell the contractor(s) to "hold it"
4) make the contractor to stop work and drive down to the local McD's and use their facilities, or
5) tell them to use the neighbors bushes
What does she expect?
Those judges buried that poor lawyer trying to defend state farms terrible business practices.
This state sumpreme court ruled in State Farms favor stating that the law invalidates the assignment of claim from the hone owners to the roofing company because the roofing company didn't have a license to perform claims adjustments.
How did the court rule on this case?
Matching issues happen. She's implying the matching issue is due to delay. A lot of talk for someone who has yet to establish her claim.
The insurance company's actual beef comes in at about 32:08. (The earlier portion is them trying to get a dismissal of the lawsuit by citing legalese as the reason, that the contractors "have no right" to sue them.)
Is there a case number on this?
the first problem with this lawsuit is the contractor going and knocking on this mans doors saying thier is a problem, right there, he should have told him to fuck off, and yes this is organized, been going on for ages!!
I don't think the female attorney has ever spent 5 minutes on a job site !
Some states require a safety monitor!
Some states require a portable toilet if the job is more that 3 days.
Some times it not the state it maybe be the local code at the city or county level.
if you're questioning the integrity of an insurance company......what freaking integrity