Proof that pyros are not a counter anymore... but awareness is a counter... Here is a screenshot from a game when there was a ton of pyro missions active so the servers were full of pyros. steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/853856090827963242/2F376053CD959B6491AA2B7E01150DB21C3454D2/
If a pyro’s doing their job, and as a pyro main I can confirm this. He still counters spy, but if they aren’t aware or a spy is better than them, then they aren’t a hard counter, but you could say the same about engie and spy. A counter isn’t a guaranteed win.
Don't know how many times I died to a new player doing the weirdest of things like walking into walls or suddenly stopping for no reason only to turn around haphazardly and kill me after a failstab.
I once had to fight a player with bad movement there were 2 and I killed them many times EXCEPT when I cant predict there movement LIKE ITS SO BAD And the worst part was that he thought he was good and trash talked each time he killed the asian on the other team unepic.
I was playing swiftwater earlier and there was this hatless pyro just walked around. He didn't walk to the front or spycheck or anything, he just stood there, with a stupid, drooling face. The only face that matched it in sheer idiocy was my teammate. I was under disguise and about to do some stabbing when our pyro commenced "walk at the enemy and my friendly spy who is running out of cloak, die, and get my spy killed by the enemy demo". Don't take this personally, but I think gibbuses need to be put on a leash, always.
Admittedly, a lot of pyros do have this mentality and even I find it more and more difficult to deal with spies that do have half a clue. It's kinda why I want to try to teach people how to work with pyros problems, cus I can deal with spies just fine, but 1 Pyro alone cannot cover an entire battlefield. So what I do is mainly discourage spies by sticking near the more important classes. I don't try to kill, I just try to stop them from doing their job.
But i think that if you stick to an important target you gonna lose the long game cus the spy pick on your other teammate and make sure that you lose the number advantage cus i dont think a pyro with 1 or 2 teammate can take on the entire enemy team
Yonan old saying is... if you chase two rabbits, you will lose them both... With that in mind, actively protect one thing. The other thing may get attacked but at least you are still protecting a very important thing!
Meh, in my experience any halfway decent pyro will notice they hit your spycicle and can usually track you down long enough to kill you if you don't or can't retreat back to your team. I almost always just use stock or the kunai.
Justin Mishlan thing is that if the pyro is chasing the spy and the pyro is competent in not getting trick stabbed, the pyro is sorta wasting time as with the recent changes it takes longer to kill with flames, and abandoning his team, with lack of air blast support.
Agree about soldier: when you almost don't touch ground and move at ridiculous speed its very hard for spy to catch you. Many times I killed spy by rocket explosion when I was jumping. As for Pyro... there are just too few good Pyros out there. Pyro is a good class overall, but a bit weird, and it has become meme-class, so next to none people can play him to his full potential. For instance, next to none of pyros do airblast after igniting the spy, despite it being the best way to catch spy.
Not for the pyro though...the poor soul... Also he's probably going to be super cuatious and costnatly spycheck after something like that, and if he catches you, god help you.
Can I just say how I love MrPaladin? He's the only guy that actually posts tf2 weekly or even early nowadays! Just keep doing what you do Paladin, and keep doing what you love you sneaky baguette thief
I agree with this. MrPaladin, I just have to say that you have inspired me to be my best spy! Of course, once I get a better computer that isn't an unpleasent behind to me, I will be using your advice, even the advice you have given me. Thank you for being my inspiration to be a better spy MrPaladin. Really.😏
From what I've experienced with pyros (only about 50 hours of spy play) the chance of survival is significantly higher if you try to trickstab one instead of running away, especially with the Kunai
Have you found players getting better at dealing with spies now that the game has aged, or do the same tricks continue to work, maybe due to a rotating player-base/fresh players coming in?
Any other class/players that aren't spies will 80% of the time focus on their roles and end up getting sapped/stabbed. Especially how hectic the game is
I think good player that have game sense usually won't fall for a trickstab but usually let their guard down when their team a doing good or if they have a pocket med
I dont know why but watching and learning from your videos is like watching Bob Ross paint, so relaxing, anti-anxiety. Thank you, it does good to my brain. I hope you see this and it makes you smile.
Bobby Try this: What do *you* do when a spy stabs someone? What do you check? Where do you check? What are you looking for that tells you “yup that’s the French man right there”? Work with these questions and play around them! Spy is as a class is all about knowing what your opponent knows and subverting what your opponent knows to get the upper hand.
I am always so afraid of pyros, Mr. Paladin. I'm on edge if I see one and panicking if he bumps me. Pretty much if a Pyro finds me, I'm always dead meat.
scouts are a problem... mostly on ignore because you cant hit them enough or get a backstab unless they back into you. but they have the tendency of showing up even after you checked to make sure the coast is clear. But because that only happens at random I find the soldiers more problematic.
Well Medics really have only two jobs, when not preparin for push Stick their medibeam into teammates rear end and keep their own beefsteaks nice, safe n luscious Oh and occasionally überwhack the baguette out of those spies when you see em, since youre the one lookin behind you
I haven't been playing TF2 for long, but I still have over twice as much play time as Heavy than my next most played class. As a budding Heavy main, I quickly realized that Spies, Snipers and sometimes Scouts are my biggest threats by far. As such, I'm extremely Spy paranoid before I even leave the spawn room. I tend to check my back around every two seconds, even if I know the enemy team doesn't have any Spies. I also made a habit of randomly shooting at stairs and corners. About 50% of the time, I find a Spy. The Spy then dies. And now for a story which I expect nobody to read. I was a Heavy on Upward defense. We were at the last point and (to compensate for the lack of Engineers) I'd set up on the balcony outside spawn. Every 30 seconds, my team told me a Spy was at spawn. Every time, I shot the stairs and whaddayaknow, Spy is dead. They weren't even Dead Ringers. I shot one of them as he ran into the corner, cloaked. I saw him run in, so I kept shooting as I followed. The only way out was past my bullets, but he never left the corner. He inevitably died and I went back to my post. 10 dead Spies later, I finally noticed that same spy getting sore in chat and throwing hackusations at me. Bro-tip for new Spies: If I hit you, your cloak stops working for a split second and I can see you, so you should probably run. Do not underestimate paranoid Heavy. He will squash you like bug.
My favorite thing to do in TF2 is play pyro and torment spies. I constantly check my back and above. I certainly still get killed by spies and have no doubt that Mr Paladin would be extremely difficult to play against. I just love baiting spies into stair stabs and then airblasting them and roasting them alive. Every time I am in a game with a really talented spy I imagine it being Mr Paladin.
Mr.p because of all your spy tutorial videos my most most played character is the spy and when i first got the game i wanted to be a pyro main but your vids (basically) made me a spy main Ps love your vids mr.p
Kinda new Pyro main here: this is kinda disheartening to hear, but I think you to be correct. With the deadringer's speed bonus, the spycle, and the diamond back/ambassador options, the Spy is more capable of killing Pyros then ever. Now I mostly catch Scouts who can't aim, and counter Soldiers and Demoknights. Pyros are not usually a team killer class, rather a support and sometimes flanking class.
Another thing that I think's responsible for Spy's struggling with Pyro's less is that maps have generally become more open. Comparing older maps to newer ones, that are far bigger spaces and far more avenues to reach important points, meaning spies will have less of an issue of running into pyros while they're spy-checking
I think the spawning wallhacks is a good thing, *but* I do feel like you shouldn't see disguised enemy spies with it. It does add another level of thinking though
As a Pyro main since beta, i can definitely agree it's got more difficult to deal with spies since many of the spy's unlocks have been balanced towards being forgiving towards afterburn. This is great for new players, but as your video shows, almost OP for spy mains who can keep their cool. As for me, i've seen the changes come and there's really only one spy loadout that I think is still broken. Yes, the Kunai and Dead Ringer combo with the high overheal the Kunai gives and the additional damage tanking when activated that the Dead Ringer offers. This makes chasing a good spy almost pointless as more often than not, despite diligent chasing, the spy can escape or lead you into their teammates. If the spy survives the first 5 seconds of you responding to them, they're as good as gone; really frustrating for the amount of effort you need to put in just to try to keep a bead on the spy. So, in 2019, if focusing my loadout on spy countering, what do i use? I know that afterburn is as good as useless, and I know that keeping sight of the spy is my main priority so I can whittle them down. I tend to go with the Degreaser, the Detonator and the Axtinguisher, but most of all relying on the Detonator to keep the spy visible through predicting movement and manual detonations. Done right, with a bit of map knowledge and good situation reading while chasing, you can keep following a spy until they know they aren't going to get any respite from you. I've had spy mains jump off cliffs rather than die by an exploding flare because i've tracked them all the way to a health pack, that i'm now standing on, and they're still on fire. :D
@@Tora209 We're already reaching a point where Pyro's 'job' seems to be anything but killing. Just denying with airblast, smashing sappers, or as you say generally doing enough to prevent a spy being effective. In an FPS, that seems a slightly weird state of affairs. Even a good medic earns assists.
@@JamesHolloway1980it's not really hard to kill players in my experience maybe sometimes the enemy player escapes but if you hit him with scorch shot or the shotgun flare gun etc it's not that much of a problem. Again this in my experience
Though it is hard to kill a spy using the dr + spycicle + letranger, most spies are not good enough to get more than a few kills per life using this set.
Do you feel the less afterburn when cloaked was a good idea in the way of balancing? Afterburn duration was already decreased so it feels kinda redundant.
I'm a proud Pyro main and I agree. Spy is more of a weak counter to Pyro than the other way round. Only time a Pyro is dangerous to a Spy is if they airblast the Spy into a corner or it's a new player going Spy.
Best is when you dominate a spy with the back burner. Running with the scratcher so you're having to use the health pack's is good practice for finding spy's.
Last day I were playing Heavy and I continued 180 randomly, predicting the deadhringer's comebacks. I made every spy drop his class. A spy can do really few against an aware player.
Aside from the spy-cicle, the change to cloak giving a flat damage reduction and shorter status effects duration for spies, makes checking for and killing them harder now. Both of which pyros basically relied on to be an effective counter class to spies. Pyros used to fill this specific niche that they were supposed to excel at like no other. Slowly, that was taken over by soldiers, scouts, and even heavies. That's why as disappointed as I am in volvos hatred for the dead ringer and enforcer, i'm not too worried about seldom ever using these items or even spawning wall hax, because with all the buffs that spy currently has at the moment, they are the strongest they have ever been without relying on their loadouts.
I feel like the Pyro issue is definIitely real, but that Spies are getting very complacent in thinking that all Pyros are lenient. I've got several years of Pyro under my belt and lately, especially, I've noticed Spies getting more ballsy with me when I play the class. It leads to a lot of angry Spies once they realize I spycheck everyone, everywhere, all the time, use my shotty, and focus on Engineers, Heavies, and Medics. The Maul is my best friend. My favorite thing to do these days is punish cheeky Spies by airblasitng them into a corner... which is, admittedly, the same treatment I give the other less mobile classes.
Thank you for video, mr.P:) It was really interesting to listen. Heh, i am actually paranoid heavy:) Just really funny to watch on spyes reactions, then i randomly turning around with spinning minigun:)
Pyros who know how to airblast can still annoy Spies by knocking them out of stabbing position, but they can't Spy-check full time unless they've committed themselves to Pybrohood.
I’m a pyro main with about 2k+ hours and I agree with everything said in this video! The load out changes make a pyro not a huge counter to spy. If a spy uses a spycicle and a dead ringer, I have a very hard time tracking where he is. Also, I cannot easily hit my flare combo on them because of the spycicle.
I feel that Scout actually counters Spy decently well because of his high burst damage and movement speed. With good aim, I tend to find myself countering more Spies than my team's Pyroes do.
Is it just me or does this guy always play with people who don’t shoot everyone because they may be a spy? Whenever I play spy I always get shot and blown up the instant I go out of cloak.
The trick is first to move and aim like a class you're disguised as normally do (its really easy to spot new spies through the way they move and look around) and second only go out of cloak when other players are distracted by something so they would be less aware to what's happening behind them then normally.
I think what Pyro really made weak against spies: Back in the day every flame tickle would burn you for 10 seconds... now it doesnt. SO its way harder to track spies.
Just earlier today I got a kill on a spy while I was playing Soldier because I randomly decided to turn around and caught him right as he was decloaking before going for the stab. One rocket to his face was all it took for him to be transformed into red mist.
Hey mr p. In a video you made a while back you were talking about how to counter spy as a sniper. You mentioned using the dot from when you zoom in to try and track down an invisible spy and I actually got to use it. I was on offense of stage 3 thunder mountain and we were trying to cap final. I was above A sniping and a c&d spy failstabbed me and hid on the roof to the right of that balcony. I used my scope and tracked him down just like you said. Thanks mr. p. Ps. He then raged a bit in the chat and I explained to him how I found him. Then he left.
Scouts are my bane. Milk and speed means they can mark you and you can't get away. Nothing worse than a Scout doing nothing but Spy patrol during a game.
I actually don't mind the spawning wallhacks. It's just one more thing I need to be aware of, and as long as I recognize that the enemy will see me if I'm disguised and uncloaked, I usually don't have a problem. I tend to just not disguise near enemy spawn anyway.
I’m having some trouble with some combo pyros I know it’s rare to see them ,but most of the time I encounter them they always end up shutting me down before pull anything off
my biggest problem as a spy is probably heavies. whenever I miss a stab or something THEY CHECK EVERYWHERE. I essentially have to retreat to spawn if one finds me since I cant trickstab.
Thanks Mr. P! I'm still getting better at spy, and these videos are fun, relaxing, and informative to watch! Quick question though, do you have any advice for how to practice spy as an offline player? Is such a thing possible? I have a laggy internet and I enjoy playing offline more than rubber-banding everywhere. If one of you fine persons in the comments has any offline spy-improvement tips, or ways for a laggy TF2'er to have fun, please let me know! Thank you, and have a wonderful day
I remember landing my very first staistab on thundermountain. I had about 200 hours of spy but the only trickstab I knew was cornerstabs. I played stock and i was being chased by a pyro. I had about 20 hp until BAM! I hit my first ever stairstab against actual players. Oh the feeling is unforgettable.
thats why while i dont hang around the engi constantly i do keep an eye on him and i always run the degreaser, scorch, and homewrecker. im also less likely to fall for tricks after one or two times
How you said cloak reduces afterburn time, Mr. P, the flamethrower also has ramp up afterburn duration. So most likely with a light brush of flames, spys can dodge a pyro hunting them down
I feel like pyro might have lost his edge against spy with the jungle inferno update and the changes to the afterburn. Now if you get a puff of fire from a pyro you won't burn forever like you used to so there's now a better chance to get away.
2fort is by far my least favorite TF2 map. The only reason it was added to TF2 is because it's an old TF1 map, but its map design just doesn't mesh with TF2 AT ALL. Don't believe me? Play almost any other map for a few days and try to go back to 2fort. Also I know this is cliche, but Uncle Dane has a really good video on why 2Fort (and capture the flag with its current ruleset in general) just don't work with TF2.
As a pyro main, I must note that not all pyros will pay so little attention. Lol, Paladin I don't watch your videos as often as I feel i should, But what i do see makes me slightly paranoid, Especially ingame when one spy makes a nuisance of themself. Even in other games, Oof-
![How a Spy Thinks #80 [Paranoia]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SGGs3dbqhQU/mqdefault.jpg)
![How a Spy Thinks #80 [Paranoia]](/img/tr.png)
![How a Spy Thinks #32 [Masking your Decloak]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/aapvrmouk8g/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Vinesauce] Joel - Windows Vista Destruction](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/e2qY8JtjJag/mqdefault.jpg)
Proof that pyros are not a counter anymore... but awareness is a counter...
Here is a screenshot from a game when there was a ton of pyro missions active so the servers were full of pyros.
steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/853856090827963242/2F376053CD959B6491AA2B7E01150DB21C3454D2/
The pro pyro know how to fight spy.
AND the pro spy know how to fight pyro.
If a pyro’s doing their job, and as a pyro main I can confirm this. He still counters spy, but if they aren’t aware or a spy is better than them, then they aren’t a hard counter, but you could say the same about engie and spy. A counter isn’t a guaranteed win.
Heebus jeebus
pybros
We all know the real counter to a spy is the unpredictable new players
Don't know how many times I died to a new player doing the weirdest of things like walking into walls or suddenly stopping for no reason only to turn around haphazardly and kill me after a failstab.
I once had to fight a player with bad movement there were 2 and I killed them many times EXCEPT when I cant predict there movement LIKE ITS SO BAD And the worst part was that he thought he was good and trash talked
each time he killed the asian on the other team
unepic.
I was playing swiftwater earlier and there was this hatless pyro just walked around. He didn't walk to the front or spycheck or anything, he just stood there, with a stupid, drooling face. The only face that matched it in sheer idiocy was my teammate. I was under disguise and about to do some stabbing when our pyro commenced "walk at the enemy and my friendly spy who is running out of cloak, die, and get my spy killed by the enemy demo". Don't take this personally, but I think gibbuses need to be put on a leash, always.
I just love being un-trick-stab-able, as I have my sounds ON everytime
To be fair, unpredictable new players counter everyone.
Admittedly, a lot of pyros do have this mentality and even I find it more and more difficult to deal with spies that do have half a clue. It's kinda why I want to try to teach people how to work with pyros problems, cus I can deal with spies just fine, but 1 Pyro alone cannot cover an entire battlefield.
So what I do is mainly discourage spies by sticking near the more important classes. I don't try to kill, I just try to stop them from doing their job.
yep, stick around the nested sentry or near the heavy medic... it is really hard for spy to be effective if that happens.
@@MrPaladin omg those drammatic flashbacks
But i think that if you stick to an important target you gonna lose the long game cus the spy pick on your other teammate and make sure that you lose the number advantage cus i dont think a pyro with 1 or 2 teammate can take on the entire enemy team
Yonan old saying is... if you chase two rabbits, you will lose them both...
With that in mind, actively protect one thing. The other thing may get attacked but at least you are still protecting a very important thing!
And plus I killed Spies while guarding an Engineer’s Sentry.
Basically, using the Spy-cicle is a big middle finger to Pyros
is it just me or do i see you in every tf2 comment section like justin Y
@@NiDaMaDa Haven't you heard of the youtube commenter celebrities? Both StickMaster500 and Justin.Y are some of them.
kunai is a big middle finger to everyone from enemy team
Meh, in my experience any halfway decent pyro will notice they hit your spycicle and can usually track you down long enough to kill you if you don't or can't retreat back to your team. I almost always just use stock or the kunai.
Justin Mishlan thing is that if the pyro is chasing the spy and the pyro is competent in not getting trick stabbed, the pyro is sorta wasting time as with the recent changes it takes longer to kill with flames, and abandoning his team, with lack of air blast support.
5:08 that medic is a beast! Went straight at the Übered Heavy and tried to kill him. I want to be like that medic when I grow up.
What a madlad
@@KurtCobain94677 gulp is that the real kurt cobain?
Agree about soldier: when you almost don't touch ground and move at ridiculous speed its very hard for spy to catch you. Many times I killed spy by rocket explosion when I was jumping.
As for Pyro... there are just too few good Pyros out there. Pyro is a good class overall, but a bit weird, and it has become meme-class, so next to none people can play him to his full potential. For instance, next to none of pyros do airblast after igniting the spy, despite it being the best way to catch spy.
Agreed. Sketchek, though.
The best moment in tf2 history is when you dominate a pyro with spy
more fun when it is with a spycicle tho ;)
@@MrPaladin 😤👌
Not for the pyro though...the poor soul...
Also he's probably going to be super cuatious and costnatly spycheck after something like that, and if he catches you, god help you.
@@testname6624 MK
What about when you stab a medic while he's healing you?
Can I just say how I love MrPaladin? He's the only guy that actually posts tf2 weekly or even early nowadays! Just keep doing what you do Paladin, and keep doing what you love you sneaky baguette thief
;)
I’ve dealt with a ton of Spies trying to kill me.
@@MrPaladin are you challenging me!
@@MrPaladin also the pyros in your video are not the best
I agree with this. MrPaladin, I just have to say that you have inspired me to be my best spy! Of course, once I get a better computer that isn't an unpleasent behind to me, I will be using your advice, even the advice you have given me. Thank you for being my inspiration to be a better spy MrPaladin. Really.😏
From what I've experienced with pyros (only about 50 hours of spy play) the chance of survival is significantly higher if you try to trickstab one instead of running away, especially with the Kunai
YES YES YES YES.
Never run away! You cannot survive! Fight!
I have 2k+ in tf2 and dont worry, this game will prove ur wrong right here.
That moment when you are burning by a pyro and you stab him and get overhealed...
Feels so good
Honestly. Any aware player can be a nightmare to get.
Face it, we've all been waiting for this.
You know, if Pyros are like this, what's the point of "Pyro is the nemesis of the Spy" anymore?"
Hey, MrPaladin, I just wanted to wish you good luck in everything you do and that I love and appreciate your work here on RUclips.
you have some mad milk near your mouth dude
@@nbdy6585 I don't get it?
@@eriadin mad milk i white... sperm is white too.
tell that to an uber phlog that has his own pyro minion
Thats scary
The only way to truly fight these guys it to fight fire with fire.
Only thing worse is a Phlog Pyro with a kritz Medic and a full Mmmph charge.
I fear no man, but that thing scares me... Always when I'm discovered out by a Pyro I just got killed
I trickstab them. You can add me so I can show you how strong I am
Try to trickstab them if your internet is sh*t you can use spy-cicle revolver combo a shoot that wm1 noob
Have you found players getting better at dealing with spies now that the game has aged, or do the same tricks continue to work, maybe due to a rotating player-base/fresh players coming in?
Any other class/players that aren't spies will 80% of the time focus on their roles and end up getting sapped/stabbed. Especially how hectic the game is
I think good player that have game sense usually won't fall for a trickstab but usually let their guard down when their team a doing good or if they have a pocket med
@@Yun_K.M they might fall for trickstab if you wear a gibus and not your fancy unusual but only once...
I love how at the end he just watched the soldier jump to his death instead of shooting him.
Pyros have never been the same since Valve nerfed the airblast.
It was such fun airblasting a spy back and forth with another pyro.
I dont know why but watching and learning from your videos is like watching Bob Ross paint, so relaxing, anti-anxiety. Thank you, it does good to my brain. I hope you see this and it makes you smile.
:)
I love tf2, but i am bad at the game
But you realy help me to be a spy, thanks for that
Lol, that ragdoll at the end! I forgot what a fun game can be on high settings
I totally agree with you on the heavy being a greater threat then the puro. Nothing more frustrating then a paranoid heavy.
I think that with the jungle inferno update and all the fixes and new additions pyro had, he isn't as bad a he used to be.
"Pyro doesn't really counter Spy anymore." See, this is hwy we need the guarddog update!
Can you do a video on bamboozling people after a stab?
Bobby Try this: What do *you* do when a spy stabs someone? What do you check? Where do you check? What are you looking for that tells you “yup that’s the French man right there”? Work with these questions and play around them!
Spy is as a class is all about knowing what your opponent knows and subverting what your opponent knows to get the upper hand.
High quality tutorials while teaching spies how to counter their own counter? Another great video by MrPaladin!
Your voice is so calm and soothing your like the Bob Ross of TF2
I am always so afraid of pyros, Mr. Paladin. I'm on edge if I see one and panicking if he bumps me. Pretty much if a Pyro finds me, I'm always dead meat.
Mr paladin is so good that he has ascended to a point where nothing is a counter
Wow what a great video! Your How a spy thinks videos really help me (I have 70 hours on spy right now). Good job MrP
To be fair, scouts and medics give me hard time nowadays, IDK why......
scouts are a problem... mostly on ignore because you cant hit them enough or get a backstab unless they back into you. but they have the tendency of showing up even after you checked to make sure the coast is clear. But because that only happens at random I find the soldiers more problematic.
@@MrPaladin Oh yeah.. those random crit jumps.......
i think when it comes to medics they are smarter now than a while ago.
Well Medics really have only two jobs, when not preparin for push
Stick their medibeam into teammates rear end and keep their own beefsteaks nice, safe n luscious
Oh and occasionally überwhack the baguette out of those spies when you see em, since youre the one lookin behind you
@@Ykskolme all in the prevention of butt Christmas
I haven't been playing TF2 for long, but I still have over twice as much play time as Heavy than my next most played class.
As a budding Heavy main, I quickly realized that Spies, Snipers and sometimes Scouts are my biggest threats by far. As such, I'm extremely Spy paranoid before I even leave the spawn room. I tend to check my back around every two seconds, even if I know the enemy team doesn't have any Spies.
I also made a habit of randomly shooting at stairs and corners. About 50% of the time, I find a Spy. The Spy then dies.
And now for a story which I expect nobody to read. I was a Heavy on Upward defense. We were at the last point and (to compensate for the lack of Engineers) I'd set up on the balcony outside spawn. Every 30 seconds, my team told me a Spy was at spawn. Every time, I shot the stairs and whaddayaknow, Spy is dead. They weren't even Dead Ringers. I shot one of them as he ran into the corner, cloaked. I saw him run in, so I kept shooting as I followed. The only way out was past my bullets, but he never left the corner. He inevitably died and I went back to my post. 10 dead Spies later, I finally noticed that same spy getting sore in chat and throwing hackusations at me.
Bro-tip for new Spies: If I hit you, your cloak stops working for a split second and I can see you, so you should probably run.
Do not underestimate paranoid Heavy. He will squash you like bug.
My favorite thing to do in TF2 is play pyro and torment spies. I constantly check my back and above. I certainly still get killed by spies and have no doubt that Mr Paladin would be extremely difficult to play against. I just love baiting spies into stair stabs and then airblasting them and roasting them alive. Every time I am in a game with a really talented spy I imagine it being Mr Paladin.
Mr.p because of all your spy tutorial videos my most most played character is the spy and when i first got the game i wanted to be a pyro main but your vids (basically) made me a spy main
Ps love your vids mr.p
Great video! All of them are great! You have inspired me to play spy
Kinda new Pyro main here: this is kinda disheartening to hear, but I think you to be correct. With the deadringer's speed bonus, the spycle, and the diamond back/ambassador options, the Spy is more capable of killing Pyros then ever. Now I mostly catch Scouts who can't aim, and counter Soldiers and Demoknights. Pyros are not usually a team killer class, rather a support and sometimes flanking class.
Show some love to flare gun, its amazing=) Airblast and flaregun are your main weapons
7 minutes ?! from the best tf2 youtuber, damn i excepted ~40, i swear he is doing the best serie in the history of Team fortress 2
Another thing that I think's responsible for Spy's struggling with Pyro's less is that maps have generally become more open. Comparing older maps to newer ones, that are far bigger spaces and far more avenues to reach important points, meaning spies will have less of an issue of running into pyros while they're spy-checking
I think the spawning wallhacks is a good thing, *but* I do feel like you shouldn't see disguised enemy spies with it.
It does add another level of thinking though
I feel like the recent fix to how flame particles no longer have the absurd range they once did reduces their counter-spy effectiveness as well.
As a Pyro main since beta, i can definitely agree it's got more difficult to deal with spies since many of the spy's unlocks have been balanced towards being forgiving towards afterburn. This is great for new players, but as your video shows, almost OP for spy mains who can keep their cool.
As for me, i've seen the changes come and there's really only one spy loadout that I think is still broken. Yes, the Kunai and Dead Ringer combo with the high overheal the Kunai gives and the additional damage tanking when activated that the Dead Ringer offers.
This makes chasing a good spy almost pointless as more often than not, despite diligent chasing, the spy can escape or lead you into their teammates. If the spy survives the first 5 seconds of you responding to them, they're as good as gone; really frustrating for the amount of effort you need to put in just to try to keep a bead on the spy.
So, in 2019, if focusing my loadout on spy countering, what do i use? I know that afterburn is as good as useless, and I know that keeping sight of the spy is my main priority so I can whittle them down. I tend to go with the Degreaser, the Detonator and the Axtinguisher, but most of all relying on the Detonator to keep the spy visible through predicting movement and manual detonations. Done right, with a bit of map knowledge and good situation reading while chasing, you can keep following a spy until they know they aren't going to get any respite from you. I've had spy mains jump off cliffs rather than die by an exploding flare because i've tracked them all the way to a health pack, that i'm now standing on, and they're still on fire. :D
ummmm i mean... you are right but if you think about it pyro is suposed to negate the spy job more than killing him
@@Tora209 We're already reaching a point where Pyro's 'job' seems to be anything but killing. Just denying with airblast, smashing sappers, or as you say generally doing enough to prevent a spy being effective. In an FPS, that seems a slightly weird state of affairs. Even a good medic earns assists.
@@JamesHolloway1980it's not really hard to kill players in my experience maybe sometimes the enemy player escapes but if you hit him with scorch shot or the shotgun flare gun etc it's not that much of a problem.
Again this in my experience
Though it is hard to kill a spy using the dr + spycicle + letranger, most spies are not good enough to get more than a few kills per life using this set.
Do you feel the less afterburn when cloaked was a good idea in the way of balancing? Afterburn duration was already decreased so it feels kinda redundant.
I'm a proud Pyro main and I agree. Spy is more of a weak counter to Pyro than the other way round. Only time a Pyro is dangerous to a Spy is if they airblast the Spy into a corner or it's a new player going Spy.
Nice video Mr Paladin now i can defeat my pyro main friend so thank you,and good luck with your future Endeavours
This might as well be my “What are spy’s gonna be doing for the next week” news channel
damn that spy stab at 1:43 was nice
Best is when you dominate a spy with the back burner. Running with the scratcher so you're having to use the health pack's is good practice for finding spy's.
Last day I were playing Heavy and I continued 180 randomly, predicting the deadhringer's comebacks. I made every spy drop his class. A spy can do really few against an aware player.
Aside from the spy-cicle, the change to cloak giving a flat damage reduction and shorter status effects duration for spies, makes checking for and killing them harder now. Both of which pyros basically relied on to be an effective counter class to spies. Pyros used to fill this specific niche that they were supposed to excel at like no other. Slowly, that was taken over by soldiers, scouts, and even heavies. That's why as disappointed as I am in volvos hatred for the dead ringer and enforcer, i'm not too worried about seldom ever using these items or even spawning wall hax, because with all the buffs that spy currently has at the moment, they are the strongest they have ever been without relying on their loadouts.
**Spy equips Spysicle and dead ringer**
Pyro: *Angry Mmmph noises*
I feel like the Pyro issue is definIitely real, but that Spies are getting very complacent in thinking that all Pyros are lenient. I've got several years of Pyro under my belt and lately, especially, I've noticed Spies getting more ballsy with me when I play the class. It leads to a lot of angry Spies once they realize I spycheck everyone, everywhere, all the time, use my shotty, and focus on Engineers, Heavies, and Medics. The Maul is my best friend.
My favorite thing to do these days is punish cheeky Spies by airblasitng them into a corner... which is, admittedly, the same treatment I give the other less mobile classes.
YAY! A new MrPaladin video! Let's witness some backstaebs.
Thank you for video, mr.P:) It was really interesting to listen. Heh, i am actually paranoid heavy:) Just really funny to watch on spyes reactions, then i randomly turning around with spinning minigun:)
Yeah I really love your videos and it is really true about pyros
You didn't even watch the video....
lmao
@@neoN-df2ce XD
Yeah I did
Pyros who know how to airblast can still annoy Spies by knocking them out of stabbing position, but they can't Spy-check full time unless they've committed themselves to Pybrohood.
That moment when you realise 3 of your friends end up in Mr Paladin's video, but not you
Can we talk about how you accidentally perfectly tracked that rocket at 5:58 ? That was legit cinematic.
I tend to have problems dealing with demoknights. Demoknights are typically extremely aggressive and will chase you around the map if they have to.
I’m a pyro main with about 2k+ hours and I agree with everything said in this video! The load out changes make a pyro not a huge counter to spy. If a spy uses a spycicle and a dead ringer, I have a very hard time tracking where he is. Also, I cannot easily hit my flare combo on them because of the spycicle.
I feel that Scout actually counters Spy decently well because of his high burst damage and movement speed. With good aim, I tend to find myself countering more Spies than my team's Pyroes do.
Is it just me or does this guy always play with people who don’t shoot everyone because they may be a spy? Whenever I play spy I always get shot and blown up the instant I go out of cloak.
The trick is first to move and aim like a class you're disguised as normally do (its really easy to spot new spies through the way they move and look around) and second only go out of cloak when other players are distracted by something so they would be less aware to what's happening behind them then normally.
Damn, I took out 3 pyros in one game because of this video. Thanks dude
Killed a unaware pyro, next life, the pyro gonna hunt you down
2:47 "What? Hah! It is good time to run, cow--" *You are dead. Not big surprise.*
The 2 pyros in the thumbnail reminded me of a match where there were 4 pyros: me and 3 other people.
I think what Pyro really made weak against spies: Back in the day every flame tickle would burn you for 10 seconds... now it doesnt. SO its way harder to track spies.
Just earlier today I got a kill on a spy while I was playing Soldier because I randomly decided to turn around and caught him right as he was decloaking before going for the stab. One rocket to his face was all it took for him to be transformed into red mist.
Most Pyros are always really good at coming out of nowhere and ruining what could be a perfect stab opportunity.
I played a bunch of Spy during the pyro update because since everyone was pyro, it was easy to disguise as a pyro and not get caught
Hey mr p. In a video you made a while back you were talking about how to counter spy as a sniper. You mentioned using the dot from when you zoom in to try and track down an invisible spy and I actually got to use it. I was on offense of stage 3 thunder mountain and we were trying to cap final. I was above A sniping and a c&d spy failstabbed me and hid on the roof to the right of that balcony. I used my scope and tracked him down just like you said. Thanks mr. p.
Ps. He then raged a bit in the chat and I explained to him how I found him. Then he left.
Scouts are my bane. Milk and speed means they can mark you and you can't get away. Nothing worse than a Scout doing nothing but Spy patrol during a game.
That's why my shotgun is my secondary of choice as pyro, 80 easy damage with a good meatshot
M1 , M2 , flare = ded spy if he is without spysicle
@@swiggityswooty407 with good aim that also works
I actually don't mind the spawning wallhacks. It's just one more thing I need to be aware of, and as long as I recognize that the enemy will see me if I'm disguised and uncloaked, I usually don't have a problem. I tend to just not disguise near enemy spawn anyway.
I’m having some trouble with some combo pyros I know it’s rare to see them ,but most of the time I encounter them they always end up shutting me down before pull anything off
I fear no man, but that thing. It scares me
180 heavys are just scary
Wow! #79! Spy thinks a lot, probably he has a huge brain? however... Thanks for all of this videos, dear Mr. P!
You're welcome
my biggest problem as a spy is probably heavies. whenever I miss a stab or something THEY CHECK EVERYWHERE. I essentially have to retreat to spawn if one finds me since I cant trickstab.
Thanks Mr. P! I'm still getting better at spy, and these videos are fun, relaxing, and informative to watch! Quick question though, do you have any advice for how to practice spy as an offline player? Is such a thing possible? I have a laggy internet and I enjoy playing offline more than rubber-banding everywhere.
If one of you fine persons in the comments has any offline spy-improvement tips, or ways for a laggy TF2'er to have fun, please let me know! Thank you, and have a wonderful day
I get so happy when u post
I remember landing my very first staistab on thundermountain. I had about 200 hours of spy but the only trickstab I knew was cornerstabs. I played stock and i was being chased by a pyro. I had about 20 hp until BAM! I hit my first ever stairstab against actual players. Oh the feeling is unforgettable.
3:30 speaking of heavies look at that team
thats why while i dont hang around the engi constantly i do keep an eye on him and i always run the degreaser, scorch, and homewrecker. im also less likely to fall for tricks after one or two times
Ive always liked that intro mr.paladin
Your video help me alot! Keep doing what you do and i wish you good luck!
what's funny that my first time watching tf2 was on ardys channel and then I moved on to this
I sure wish I could play spy like you
Heavies who turn around randomly and pyros who sit on the cart flaming randomly are the worst for me
How you said cloak reduces afterburn time, Mr. P, the flamethrower also has ramp up afterburn duration. So most likely with a light brush of flames, spys can dodge a pyro hunting them down
3:27 that demoman came out of nowhere lol.
I've started to play more pyro. Thanks for the heads up!
You cannot hide, we will turn you into a French fry.
I feel like pyro might have lost his edge against spy with the jungle inferno update and the changes to the afterburn. Now if you get a puff of fire from a pyro you won't burn forever like you used to so there's now a better chance to get away.
That medic is a gamer medic
I think the pyros that you typically deal with just don't spy-check as vigorously as some really good ones I've seen.
Just realized i prolly do poorly so often cause i only play 2fort
2fort is by far my least favorite TF2 map. The only reason it was added to TF2 is because it's an old TF1 map, but its map design just doesn't mesh with TF2 AT ALL. Don't believe me? Play almost any other map for a few days and try to go back to 2fort.
Also I know this is cliche, but Uncle Dane has a really good video on why 2Fort (and capture the flag with its current ruleset in general) just don't work with TF2.
3:28 If i was that medic i would stop shooting for a second and said "Good shooting"
I think that now, more people plays Spyes and Pyros, they're always overstacked, on one team 4 spyes and on the other around 3-4 pyros
As a pyro main, I must note that not all pyros will pay so little attention. Lol, Paladin I don't watch your videos as often as I feel i should, But what i do see makes me slightly paranoid, Especially ingame when one spy makes a nuisance of themself. Even in other games, Oof-
The thing that scares me is when you see an experienced pyro who knows what he is doing and can handle spies. That is a problem