British mainline stock have been doing this for ages with GSMR, and now ECTMS the Eltronics are located on the Bulkhead of the tender for example here on Tornado located behind a Glass Pannle is where all that is located with the Eltronics situated between the frames on the tender, the only difference being is on ETS (Eliecteral Train Supply or ETH (Eliecteral Train Heating) though as Minaline Mark 1/2 (A-C) Stock that was biult by BR in the 50's have Dynamos basicly under each coach that can run the 18V Supply for Lighting and to also charge the batterties though some Support coaches you see located directly behind most BR Steam locos also have some form of Generator on board also some Railtour sets either have a (GFO, GSO, or a GSK) Generator First Open, Generator Second Open or Generator Second Corridor or in the case of West Coast Railways a Rail Chater Company of the UK tend to put a "Dead" Loco it's soul job is to do nothing but sit there at Idle running it's Genny for Heating basicly ruclips.net/video/mBHUbb3BQx4/видео.html (here should give you a good example of a Mainline Certified Steam locks cab from viewing of the 2nd Mans Position (fireman)
I'd just like the point out that it still blows my mind that in this day and age, a Fortune 500 company actually allows this much effort to be put into something like a heritage steam program. Thank you Union Pacific.
It's absurd. Yes, it's a "marketing thing", but like, a railroad with relatively captive customers doesn't need to be marketing much... and certainly not enough to justify the expense of the program. I am all here for it. It's fantastic.
@@Hyce777 You would be shocked how much companies with captive customers advertising goes on. It's really common in the defense industry. They spend a fortune on advertising to 99.999999999% of people not even capable or allowed to buy their products. Because that .000000001% who can. Are worth billions and spending the taxpayers money. I really don't give the company credit for keeping an old locomotive going. They're doing it as either some executive's play thing or because virtue signaling works. Look at how much we care about the same thing you do. Ignore our well known notorious history for how we treat our employees. Those dead and injured people don't count. Steam engines do.
@@Hyce777 They may not need to pull in more customers, but what they do probably need to pull in is employees. Maybe they think having the steam program will pull in more train nerds to become employees.
They have Ed Dickens' connections and general persuasive abilities and a class 1 budget, and I assume they may still be seeing some money from the benefactor that sorted 4014's restoration in the first place. The cost of 4014's original restoration was probably less than a quarterly profit for UP.
The big Boy pulling what looks to be a modern freight train, that is the foamers' wet dream to be sure. Also as a chronic pessimist and drama queen, I know how it must feel to be wrong in a good way, and right now you have been wrong in the most awesome way possible : )
I'd love to see 844, 4014, and 3985 pulling modern versions of the cargo they were designed for, the engines themselves are in great shape, it's just the infrastructure that doesn't exist to support it
@@It_Is_I_I the challenger did pull an intermodal at one point at the request of a client. but that was decades ago tho. altho it is hilarious watching old beauties shove stalled modern buckets of bolts up hills whenever it happens
@@genevarailfan3909 It’s just a thought…not a practicality. I’m sure most of us would like to see Big Boys, Challengers, Hudsons, cab-forwards and all the other big steam power from days gone by out there pounding the rails like they did in the past, but it ain’t gonna happen. But, we can have that little fantasy in our heads…of those machines pulling the trains that they did in all those grainy black and white photographs we’ve all seen. Somehow, seeing a Big Boy devoid of road grime, pulling some brightly colored auxiliary tenders and excursion passenger coaches just seems like a slap in the face to what these locomotives did in their “real lives”…but I still love seeing it out there!
Also another reason behind this when they get to Roseville, California, the 4014 is scheduled to pull a long manifest train. They want to show off to everybody that 4014 can pull a modern day train without the diesel. But in order to do that they have to test out the PTC.
HOLY GRACIOUS. If that is true, absolutely kudos to UP. It really feels like they're really putting Big Boy through testing lately, to see how it performs with stuff in the modern era.
@@jacobcave1587 Union Pacific's famed Big Boy No. 4014, the world's largest operating steam locomotive, will return to the rails this summer with a scenic tour across mountain ranges and high desert vistas across Wyoming, Utah, Nevada and California. This is one of two public tours planned for Big Boy in 2024, with a second tour planned later this fall with stops in Texas, Arkansas, Kansas, and Illinois, among other states. Details of the second tour will be released later this spring. Big Boy will journey from its home base in Cheyenne, Wyoming on Sunday, June 30, en route to Roseville, California, before returning to Wyoming by the end of July. It will make numerous whistle-stops in communities along the way, with public display stops scheduled in: • July 12-13: Roseville, California • July 20-21: Ogden, Utah Additional route details and approximate times for whistlestops will be shared closer to the tour. During the tour, the Union Pacific Railroad Museum will host a special passenger trip. The unique experience is the annual gala fundraiser for the nonprofit organization and provides a rare opportunity to travel on this historic heritage equipment. More information on the specifics will appear at www.UPtrainTix.com when they become available. The month-long "Westward Bound" tour will honor Union Pacific's rich railroad legacy and celebrate the railroad's employees and communities it serves. For part of its journey, the Big Boy's consist will include an assortment of rail cars giving spectators a glimpse into what the locomotive looked like pulling freight in its heyday. "The Big Boy locomotive symbolizes the pivotal role railroads played in shaping our nation's history, and the technological advances we have witnessed within our industry," said Union Pacific CEO Jim Vena. "We are thrilled to share this living piece of history with our employees and the public, and we love seeing the enthusiasm this locomotive generates wherever its whistle blows." Last fall, we had anticipated including Boise and Portland on the Westward Bound tour. As planning continued, we determined that the network capacity on our northern corridor could not accommodate Big Boy No. 4014 along with anticipated demand on a single track. Our goal is to share the Big Boy with as many rail fans as possible across our network, and we look forward to seeing everyone track side - 25 feet back this summer and fall.
I bet they'll do some of both. Borrowing a diesel helper for long runs between locations, but then ditching it for events and photo ops. Really getting the best of all worlds!
Same here, it'll depend on the situation where the loco goes. With it's own PTC, when they do need a diesel, they can put some of their heritage painted engines behind it. Like for the west coast thing, engine 1996 (The SP heritage) could ride along.
@@wesw9586I’m assuming that they kind of already have, as you can see in recent photos much of the tech upgrades they made on the tender they are borrowing from 3985. One might speculate if Silvis is actually performing (or planning to) the same tech upgrade on 4014’s (technically 4015’s, but I digress) actual tender.
Wdym? UP had run excursions with steam locos even AFTER they were retired from revenue service. Many videos exist from the 80's and 90's showing 844 (then 8444) and 3985 operating with no diesel helpers. As far as PTC is concerned, many steam locos in the UK are fitted with TPWS, even though the system was introduced well after the steam era there had ended. The GWR also had ATC on their steam locos as early as 1906.
@@AutismTakesOn Yeah, the GWR was very tech forward for a lot of its history, probably because they had the money to do so, due to their lines being extremely profitable compared to some of the others in the Big Four.
@@AutismTakesOn difference between those models n big boy is they can run without such needed where bigboy was a complete full rebuild from ground up, and there was ZERO models testing of that size power and weight on modern diesel
When I hear "they added a Second Dynamo", my immediate mental image is Back to the Future 3's Time Train with the electrical arcs and spinning doodads, Bigboy sized.
I feel kind of bad for 844, her boiler time is still going but she hasn’t been steamed up since 2019. 4014 has pretty much taken over the show. I’m happy 4014 is running and has full ptc now, would be nice to give 844 some leg stretching though
IIRC 844 isn't in the best condition right now, UP was running her a bit harder then usual right before Big Boy came back and she's feeling the extra miles.
@@joshuahudson2170 boiler time is still going even if not fired up or even if there is no water in the locomotive. Under the FRA you have to do a boiler inspection every 1472 operating days OR 15 years whichever comes first. I could be off a bit but I think she got back in service 2016. If that is the case that she has gone through 8 years already of the allowed 15. So roughly 7 years remaining before she has to be removed from service for inspection
A friend of mine has been involved with the static and other testing in the last few days. He shared a couple of photos of the cab controls for the PTC and MU reverser and throttle for the diesel when it's hooked up in the consist. He was the one testing the PTC installation. It was odd to see that sort of electronics in the cab of a steam engine. The new unit is on a pivot and can swing in and out.
And by the way, ATSF 2926 might not needed a diesel helper for the first excursion, and some might need a diesel helper for steep terrains. But any case I can't wait to see 2926 in operation in person (Fingers crossed)
I really hope N&W 611 gets a similar upgrade, just to allow her to move more often without a diesel. Imagine if she didn't have to wait for Ferry moves whenever they wanted to get somewhere to run? it would be amazing.
Unless things change in terms of PSR and NS's perspective on steam locomotives and willingness to shell out money for insurance costs, I wouldn't count on it. For the PTC installation to be worthwhile, 611 would first need to be allowed to lead a train on NS's trackage.
@@jamesbuckner4791 Unfortunately, people who get into positions where they can make those sorts of decisions are rarely foamers themselves - there's a similar phenomenon with car manufacturers and hopping in and out of motorsports due to a particular CEO's interest or lack of interest in it.
Quick note about the 2816… it is AWESOME and it is beautiful. It was parked across the street from where I work in Kansas City for a week and I loved seeing it every day. I brought my 3 year old daughter to the event and she has not shut up about it. Nice to know it’s got the same upgrades that 4014 now has.
The last thing I thought hyce would talk about was 2816. I love that locomotive, I had the great honor of seeing it twice before it left Calgary for Mexico. Hyce if you ever want to talk more about 2816 and it's ptc let me know, I have many friends thar know ever part of that locomotive.
I’m going to guess they’ll always bring the diesel for ferry runs, for the dynamic brakes and the lower wear on the Big Boy. They may leave it at the yard for some excursions, so long as the grades and the timetables aren’t going to put undue stress on the locomotive. I think your points about the cost of fabricating replacement parts still stand. They want to run it, but they don’t want to run it into the ground.
First it rescued a Diesel from being stranded, and now it can run without Diesel assistance. The Big Boy really is getting the last laugh as a champion of Steam.
When I did the steam shop tour in march, they talked about the PTC upgrade. They said it was so they weren’t tied to a single point failure with 4015. If the 4015 goes down the Big Boy has to stop and wait for it to be fixed because 4015s PTC was modified to work with the Big Boy. Now if 4015 goes down they can pull any loco from the fleet to keep the Big Boy moving
CPKC currently running CP 2816 from Canada to Mexico: Neat. UP runs 4014 on the mainline without a diesel with working PTC: *OH MY LANDS WE ARE WITNESSING HISTORY LADS!!!*
@@jonathanp935 And the lineup changes. It started with Fs and Hydrogen locos, then just Fs, now it's got the first Evo to be painted in CPKC's new paint scheme.
One thing I've always wondered about steam locomotives is why does the Doppler effect for the chuffing get reversed? Why does the pitch of the chuffing change from high to low and then back to high as it passes you?
Hyce also while they are installing these units on Big Boy Alex Beams is installing the same systems on 261, The Empress 2816, and on 3985 and 5511. When Big Boy goes east and does its boiler wash at Silvis all they have to do is unplug the cable, swap the tenders, and hook everything back up. #3985 and #5511 will use the same system as Big Boy that way they can operate all three locomotives on the main line. The only reason they need the diesel is dynamics and Tunnel 41 is oil burner territory so they will need a diesel to pilot them through the tunnel.
Excellent presentation. Thank you. Amazing that UP keeps the 4014 updated for all of us to enjoy. That said, having a backup power unit in the form of a diesel makes really smart sense. The 4014 is really, really special and just knowing that unit is back there :just in case" is really good insurance.
Canadian Pacific's steam crew developed the non-diesel version of PTC, got regulatory approval and successfully tested it in Alberta last year. Part of the Aldersyde Subdivision (south of Calgary) was used for the tests, I'm not sure if they actually installed some PTC equipment out in the field or just added this section to the database since we don't have PTC in Canada (yet). Hope you do manage to get out and see 2816, I chased one of the test runs to Edmonton and followed the first leg of the trip from Calgary to Dunmore (the yard just east of Medicine Hat). Amazing engine and an excellent experience, their steam crew is doing an awesome job and I can't wait to see the engine again when she's back in Alberta.
More likely than not, the diesel will still be there on the multi-week long tours. Too much utility with the diesel as a range extender and a brake saver vs without. I could see them doing Cheyenne to Denver and return without one though.
I swear watching this mammoth beast chugging up the rail is a life altering experience. There is NOTHING to compare to the sound of these enormous engines actually working and doing what they were built for. Incredibly cool. If you've never seen U.P. #4014 'Big Boy', it's DEFINITELY worth looking at the schedule for the yearly tour.
Seeing how CPKC and UP have done this, one wonders if other active main-line-capable steam engines would likely have it installed (glancing over at N&W 611).
If you hadn't told me that box on the tender was a PTC antenna, I wouldn't have known. I suspect 90% of other people won't know or care either (and the last 10% will be screaming that they "ruined" the engine). Great to see this upgrade, hopefully this can be applied to other big engines as well. 4449, 700, 3751, 2926, 765, 1228, the list goes on...
Yeah, as someone who's pretty picky about keeping things "historical" in look, I'm pleased to see it wasn't that noticeable or awkward-looking. You might have mistaken it for some kind of toolbox. I've heard that Santa Fe 2926 at least has been equipped with a lot of PTC stuff already, so hopefully they can somehow carefully add this to it as well (let's really hope that Albuquerque giant can FINALLY make her first excursions this year).
I just love steam and seeing it as it’s meant to be (on its own, doing what it does) is glorious. The Big Boy is a treasure that I hope to see running in person someday. Thanks for sharing, Hyde.
UP did this of their own accord. When the Steam Team was first restoring her to running order, Union Pacific sent a letter in 2018 asking the FRA to waive modern PTC requirements for 4014. The FRA responded by saying that 4014 did not need PTC installed to run on the main. There are links on 4014s wiki that direct you to an archived version of the Trains magazine articles outlining both UPs letter to the FRA and the FRA response. Truly a case of "F*** it, we'll do it anyways."
I think the waiver rejection was specifically because, at the time UP applied, PTC wasn't required to be installed yet (not the end of 2020). Now I suspect it is required regardless.
@@BandanRRChannel From what I've read in forums and the FRA regulations surrounding PTC requirements for preserved equipment, the waiver system still stands. Operations will have to ensure that there is a crewed trailing unit equipped with PTC that is in communication with the non-PTC-equipped lead unit. Despite this, as we've seen, many preservation operations around the country are choosing to go the more capital-intensive route by investing in an organic PTC solution to ensure mainline operations of preserved locomotives.
@@yohannamaulawin631after all, it is probably cheaper to keep it running and generating revenue than it is to leave it idle. Since 4014 is a most mighty locomotive indeed, I'm sure it could manage a super hot intermodal even now and put a dent in the supply chain snarl.
@@johnrickard8512 As much as I'd like to see 4014 pull a hotshot Z train like 3895 did when APL asked UP to do so in the 80s(?), I highly doubt it would happen unless one of UP's major intermodal partners requested it, as APL did. Also, I don't think UP expects 4014 to break even regarding operations. Management most likely rationalized that the marketing value that 4014 brings in is enough to offset the cost of running what is essentially an extra on the main.
Wow! Lot's of jaws hit the floor today. I still think the diesel will be part of the run this June for all the reasons before, but this video clearly proves once and for all that the 4014 is fully capable of doing what it was designed to do completely unassisted. Well done UP steam crew.
Yeah, wouldn't be surprised. When 844 came over Donner years ago, they had the diesels to push/pull through the tunnels when they killed the fire in the box. 4014 might be fine, but it's really about how brave Ed and the guys feel heading into Big Hole
Does Big Boy and 4014 run on coal or fuel oil? I had wondered why if power where the problem they didn't add a small diesel generator and batteries in an un-obvious compartment in the tender? Or, they could have created a special disguise freight car that would be right behind the tender with the genset and batteries. That would provide all the power also needed for passenger cars.
The 4014 burns oil. And all of these excursion trains have a special car equipped with a diesel generator to provide all the power the train needs for the coaches. The UP Heritage page shows these cars.
Big Boy doing the thing with no diesel on a relatively (for modern steam) heavy load is just a sight to behold. Truly one of the coolest advancements made in mainline running with her and CP 2816. It will be interesting which societies adapt this to which engines because that will be truly something
Thank you so much for the update. It is marvelous that the UP steam shop was able (and the company was willing to pay the cost) to get the necessary filtered power out of two (!) dedicated dynamos and find a home for the pallet load of electronic gear. If nothing else, it should allow some wonderful run-by photos and videos.
excellent follow up on your original thoughts, Hyce. i think that as awesome as this now is, they will almost certainly keep the diesel in for longer trips. and of course going up and down the steep grades in california. i hope i am wrong, but seems like that’s what is going to happen haha
I heard the people behind the N&W J611 were waiting to see how the PTC would be installed and function on the Big Boy to see if they wanted to pursue something similar with the 611. They were thinking it might be cost prohibitive to develop one for the 611 unless it was proven elsewhere that it would pass legal requirements and get approval. It does seem like something not worth sinking money into developing if you aren't sure it will be allowed when you are done. I hope they go for it after seeing this, but i can also see the not wanting to make significant changes to the locomotives side of things.
UP has a lot of faith and trust in the engine and crew that there won't be any issues, especially on a mainline. No way they do this unless they're near certain they won't have any problems. This is pretty darn cool!
I'm trying to count how many PBL Sn3 engines are on the shelves behind you. Not sure if it is 4 or 5, plus the OM Rotary Snow Plow. Looks like a RGS 20, 344, maybe a K-36, not sure about the others.
This last weekend was depo days in Cheyenne and we were able to go in to the steam shop to see Big Boy up close. As of Saterday this week the PTC was not working and they had a bunch of people working on a weekend to get it working for testing this week!
I am by no means an expert on the subject, but I envisioned using a vintage B Unit (or multiple B Units) as helpers behind the tender(s), all painted to resemble the passenger consist to blend in, which could be operated from the cab of the steam engine for use as helpers and for dynamic braking purposes. Anyway it's just a thought.
I had thought there was something off with the previous video, steam engines in europe frequently run solo and they must have similar requirements for safety equipment. It's great to see the technology being proved in the US, though like you say there are other reasons that diesels will continue to be seen.
Cool to see 4014 able to handle the modern computer. I know they got their tools and repair car, but I figured the diesel was there for backup just in case depending on the situation and fix needed.
I presume the way they were able to get the electricity from the Dynamos clean enough to power the PTC computers and other electronics was through a battery bank. I guess the dynamos would charge the batteries and the batteries would filter the electricity to keep it clean and consistent for the components. Could be wrong though. This whole topic has been incredibly fascinating for me though. It’s the fact that we’re able to take this new and fairly sophisticated rail technology and allow it work with something as primitive as a steam engine, all the way down to the fact that the system itself being powered by said steam.
As from talking with some of the crew when they came through Jefferson City, Missouri. The reason for the diesel was the air supply. The Big Boy's compressors are not quite up to modern code (at that time).
That's actually 100% incorrect. If the big boy was controlling the brakes (which it does), unless they added MU hoses no one's noticed there's no way for the diesel to add to the air supply.
@@Hyce777 This is what I was told while they were here during their overnight stay at Jefferson City, when I asked about running without the diesel. That's not the say things may have changed since then, and they now get to run without it. It could also be because they were running passenger service at that time, and had to work within the rules and regulations around it.
The Empress is a beauty, I hope you get a chance to see her. I didn't make it to Moose Jaw to see her, but a friend caught her on video from on top of the airseeder as she went right past the field they were working in near Rouleau! Magnificent!
I feel they'll still have a diesel helper where there are serious downhill grades for the very reason you just highlighted, Hyce! The diesel has something the Big Boy and all the other steam locomotives currently preserved will never have, and that's dynamic braking. Sure, the Big Boy could handle a long, heavy train over mountainous terrain without any assistance, however, as the old say goes, "what goes up, must go down"! It doesn't do the Railroad much good showing off their big newly restored steam locomotive pulling a monster sized train upgrade, only to have it melt the brakes off the cars and/or the locomotive going downhill, causing a runaway with potential devastating results!
1:25 a german steam engine crew did similar with adding a second generator to power the german track security system (PZB) seperately from lights and other systems. If I remember rightly, it's the Class 50 3616 from Your video "IT'S A PROTEST? German Revenue Steam in 2024!" but I'm not totally sure anymore on which engine I've seen it
She won't go on long trips without a helper because what if she broke down? Also when they stay close to the yard they keep parts on hand.. Brakes are why I'm told they use the helper primarily
The DC Power side of things for the PTC wouldn't be that complicated these days with the modern Railroad spec DC-DC Coverters available now. The Dynamos can be used to feed a bank of suitable capacitors at it's normal voltage range, and then DC-DC Converters can be used to regulate and convert that into clean 74vDC that the equipment needed. Batteries can also then be added as needed, which are kept charged by the Dynamo, and will keep the equipment alive for a while if there is an issue with the dynamo. Would be interesting to see if they actually have any of that stuff installed, or if they are just relying on the internal power supplies to have a wide enough input range that they will directly accept the Dyanmo output.
Having a diesel along just for the dynamic brakes is still a good idea, especially given all the big grades out west, saves a lot of wear and tear on 4014's brake system.
You possess a skill that is rare these days, the ability to be graciously corrected. Thanks for the update. Now the question is will the 4015 be folded back into the pool or does the steam department retain custody?
That's cool as hell! On top of the tender, the antennas are almost a cool easter egg. The little additions that let this old beast work with modern tech.
I just had an idea manifest. For dynamic braking on the 4014 (and maybe others, if my idea is crazy enough to work…) add “traction” motors somewhere on the locomotive, drivers, tender, I don’t know. Then for your heating grid, place that inside the boiler. So now, your dynamic braking is contributing to your steam production, and lower fuel usage. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk Boom, mic drop Harry out
Tom Blasingame has had variants of this for quite some time. Use the pedestal axles on the tender, with one of the usual solutions to modify the field in detected wheelslide. Feed power to elements in a circulating 'bypass heater' like that on rebuilt BR 52 8055. (Unit then doubles as standby heater to keep the engine in steam at high pressure, just as on 8055)
I just saw that No. 4014 is going to here on display in Roseville on July 12-13th. I instantly thought that of course you would have a video on it. I totally am going to try and go take a look at it while it's here.
Hope you're able to sync up yours and 2816's schedule so you can see it. Caught her coming through Lake Forest Illinois on inbound Chicago leg and if you're going to do diesel protection on a steam move a pair of maroon and gray script FP9s are sweet and at least looks like that power consist could have happened.
Back in the day you said that every time they run big boy they need to look for water towers along the route so now i propose a better solution: Put a HUGE water pump in one of the cars behind big boy and get a wide hose, now all you need to do is to stop in a river, lake or creek and just pump water into the tender. And how much the biggest water pump out there weighs?
Love this. :) I was able to go see the Big Boy a few years back, which was great fun. Diesel may be effective, but it'll never have the heart steam has.
Anybody know if it's got it's own tender back from repaint? Ive been watching for the tender here in the Silvis yard, 4014 was running with the Challenger's tender in the meantime. Im really hoping my work schedule is more sane soon so i can volunteer at RRHMA and be around steam powered beasts more often!
Hello Hyce!Just heard today from my very aware friend that the 2819, on June 29th. is going to be running a ticketed excursion from Silvis shops to Bureau and back. I believe they will be using UP equipment rather than the CP train equipment. Sounds like it will be $142. 2819 will be spending a few days prior at the former RI Silvis shops for a boiler cleaning,
I’ve always wondered if it could run without a diesel and here it is a few years later, finally running without a diesel. That thing sounds beautiful without it!
If they could dig up electric bogies and build the fan-cooled resistor packs into boxcars they could add dynamic braking. Necessary, if they need to haul coal to both balance costs and try to limit heat/cold cycling.
Very cool! I know that to meet today's PTC regs the diesel would be a necessity, but now that that's no longer an issue, I hope he goes it solo. Heck, Big Boy had no problem taking care of himself for years and it looks like he hasn't aged a day!
Now they can just hook up a battery slug to take advantage of dynamic braking and have on demand tractive effort, they don’t need an entire extra locomotive anymore, room for something custom maybe
It's great they did this, realization I just had though is they have to rip it all out again when they do the tender swap with RRHMA to return 3985s tender and take back 4014s tender once the conversion to oil on that is complete
I cannot imagine that the equipment is not on sleds with standardized connectors, if for no other reason than to facilitate quick field troubleshooting and repair "with the clock running".
I can't believe UP actually made this work. Watching 4014 roll past with its regular consist - Hi, steam crew, decorating the doors - no diesel! and a bunch of graffiti'd rustbucket modern hoppers is positively surreal. Thank you for the fun video and it'll be fun to see what UP Steam gets up to with this new capability. PS. If you ever get to film with Ed (dreams), now you have something else to talk about.....
Dude, that's what I thought during the edit, lol. Huge freaking difference. Special thanks to Chris Gill who top chatted me the money for the camera as a surprise the one live stream.
I’m going to said this Hyce. PTC was possible on a steam locomotive, as the GWR in the UK were the first to ever to invent an early design of PTC, but it worked on steam locomotives.
It will be amazing to see 4014 running with out diesel unit assistance. I'm gonna hope that they'll apply the same applications on 844 and bring her out for a run. The grand old lady hasn't been fired up since 2019! Here's hoping 🤞
Not standalone PTC like this though, 4014 was the first steam locomotive to implement any kind of PTC and then ATSF 3751 was right behind it. CP 2816 was the first locomotive to have standalone PTC with it being installed and tested in October of last year, 4014 just had this new system installed this year
Now this is what I love about the Big Boy and it's needed upgrades. I so wanted to see it run on the main pulling revenue producing freight. Earning its keep if you will. This is how it was meant to be. For this old timer at least, it makes my heart go pitter-pat.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Check out the original video I mentioned at the beginning: ruclips.net/video/12Zpb0Yh-sM/видео.html
British mainline stock have been doing this for ages with GSMR, and now ECTMS the Eltronics are located on the Bulkhead of the tender for example here on Tornado located behind a Glass Pannle is where all that is located with the Eltronics situated between the frames on the tender, the only difference being is on ETS (Eliecteral Train Supply or ETH (Eliecteral Train Heating) though as Minaline Mark 1/2 (A-C) Stock that was biult by BR in the 50's have Dynamos basicly under each coach that can run the 18V Supply for Lighting and to also charge the batterties though some Support coaches you see located directly behind most BR Steam locos also have some form of Generator on board also some Railtour sets either have a (GFO, GSO, or a GSK) Generator First Open, Generator Second Open or Generator Second Corridor or in the case of West Coast Railways a Rail Chater Company of the UK tend to put a "Dead" Loco it's soul job is to do nothing but sit there at Idle running it's Genny for Heating basicly
ruclips.net/video/mBHUbb3BQx4/видео.html (here should give you a good example of a Mainline Certified Steam locks cab from viewing of the 2nd Mans Position (fireman)
I'd just like the point out that it still blows my mind that in this day and age, a Fortune 500 company actually allows this much effort to be put into something like a heritage steam program. Thank you Union Pacific.
It's absurd. Yes, it's a "marketing thing", but like, a railroad with relatively captive customers doesn't need to be marketing much... and certainly not enough to justify the expense of the program. I am all here for it. It's fantastic.
@@Hyce777 I think the historic aspect of the program, as well as the financial "loses" give The UP a nice tax write off.
@@Hyce777 You would be shocked how much companies with captive customers advertising goes on. It's really common in the defense industry.
They spend a fortune on advertising to 99.999999999% of people not even capable or allowed to buy their products. Because that .000000001% who can. Are worth billions and spending the taxpayers money.
I really don't give the company credit for keeping an old locomotive going. They're doing it as either some executive's play thing or because virtue signaling works.
Look at how much we care about the same thing you do. Ignore our well known notorious history for how we treat our employees. Those dead and injured people don't count. Steam engines do.
@@Hyce777 They may not need to pull in more customers, but what they do probably need to pull in is employees. Maybe they think having the steam program will pull in more train nerds to become employees.
Because history is most important to future generations..
I’m sure this was an expensive upgrade, but this is historic for mainline steam as a whole. IMAGINE THE POSSIBILITIES!!!
They have Ed Dickens' connections and general persuasive abilities and a class 1 budget, and I assume they may still be seeing some money from the benefactor that sorted 4014's restoration in the first place. The cost of 4014's original restoration was probably less than a quarterly profit for UP.
Sort of makes you wonder if more locomotives will be fitted with this equipment. Like Reading 2100 when she gets finished or Foamer Bait NKP 765.
More steam allowed on the main line! (Maybe more revenue freight?) 🙂🚂
Aledgidly cp 2816 got equipped for its current tour
Welp that's what i get for checking the comments before finishing the video
The big Boy pulling what looks to be a modern freight train, that is the foamers' wet dream to be sure.
Also as a chronic pessimist and drama queen, I know how it must feel to be wrong in a good way, and right now you have been wrong in the most awesome way possible : )
I'd love to see 844, 4014, and 3985 pulling modern versions of the cargo they were designed for, the engines themselves are in great shape, it's just the infrastructure that doesn't exist to support it
@@It_Is_I_I the challenger did pull an intermodal at one point at the request of a client. but that was decades ago tho. altho it is hilarious watching old beauties shove stalled modern buckets of bolts up hills whenever it happens
@@It_Is_I_I. I dunno….I’d rather see the Big Boy pulling a line of wooden reefers, doing what it was truly made to do!
@@johns3106 Where would we find a line of wooden reefers?
@@genevarailfan3909 It’s just a thought…not a practicality. I’m sure most of us would like to see Big Boys, Challengers, Hudsons, cab-forwards and all the other big steam power from days gone by out there pounding the rails like they did in the past, but it ain’t gonna happen. But, we can have that little fantasy in our heads…of those machines pulling the trains that they did in all those grainy black and white photographs we’ve all seen. Somehow, seeing a Big Boy devoid of road grime, pulling some brightly colored auxiliary tenders and excursion passenger coaches just seems like a slap in the face to what these locomotives did in their “real lives”…but I still love seeing it out there!
Seeing the electronics equipment in the tender like that is a really cool contrast
Biggest Boy Needs no Diesels. It shall pull a goods train over the railroad FOREVER
Yes
@@Grain979 Great username!
@lukemendel8197 thanks
i read this in TF2 Soldier's voice xd
big boy and the buff might just out live us all
Also another reason behind this when they get to Roseville, California, the 4014 is scheduled to pull a long manifest train. They want to show off to everybody that 4014 can pull a modern day train without the diesel. But in order to do that they have to test out the PTC.
wait *WHAT* I want to see that! I think I'm overseas when it's there though... single tear.
HOLY GRACIOUS. If that is true, absolutely kudos to UP. It really feels like they're really putting Big Boy through testing lately, to see how it performs with stuff in the modern era.
@Trainmaster-nw1en do you have a source for that information?
Is this fake or something because I can’t find Anything about this
@@jacobcave1587 Union Pacific's famed Big Boy No. 4014, the world's largest operating steam locomotive, will return to the rails this summer with a scenic tour across mountain ranges and high desert vistas across Wyoming, Utah, Nevada and California. This is one of two public tours planned for Big Boy in 2024, with a second tour planned later this fall with stops in Texas, Arkansas, Kansas, and Illinois, among other states. Details of the second tour will be released later this spring.
Big Boy will journey from its home base in Cheyenne, Wyoming on Sunday, June 30, en route to Roseville, California, before returning to Wyoming by the end of July. It will make numerous whistle-stops in communities along the way, with public display stops scheduled in:
• July 12-13: Roseville, California
• July 20-21: Ogden, Utah
Additional route details and approximate times for whistlestops will be shared closer to the tour.
During the tour, the Union Pacific Railroad Museum will host a special passenger trip. The unique experience is the annual gala fundraiser for the nonprofit organization and provides a rare opportunity to travel on this historic heritage equipment. More information on the specifics will appear at www.UPtrainTix.com when they become available.
The month-long "Westward Bound" tour will honor Union Pacific's rich railroad legacy and celebrate the railroad's employees and communities it serves. For part of its journey, the Big Boy's consist will include an assortment of rail cars giving spectators a glimpse into what the locomotive looked like pulling freight in its heyday.
"The Big Boy locomotive symbolizes the pivotal role railroads played in shaping our nation's history, and the technological advances we have witnessed within our industry," said Union Pacific CEO Jim Vena. "We are thrilled to share this living piece of history with our employees and the public, and we love seeing the enthusiasm this locomotive generates wherever its whistle blows."
Last fall, we had anticipated including Boise and Portland on the Westward Bound tour. As planning continued, we determined that the network capacity on our northern corridor could not accommodate Big Boy No. 4014 along with anticipated demand on a single track. Our goal is to share the Big Boy with as many rail fans as possible across our network, and we look forward to seeing everyone track side - 25 feet back this summer and fall.
I bet they'll do some of both. Borrowing a diesel helper for long runs between locations, but then ditching it for events and photo ops. Really getting the best of all worlds!
I bet its going to depends heavily on the route, especially if they have long downgrades where dynamic braking could be very beneficial
My thoughts exactly.
Same here, it'll depend on the situation where the loco goes. With it's own PTC, when they do need a diesel, they can put some of their heritage painted engines behind it. Like for the west coast thing, engine 1996 (The SP heritage) could ride along.
@@eva.cassidy the SP or WP units would be good picks for sure.
Great achievement for the UP steam team. Hoping that 844 gets the upgrade too.
I think up said they are doing it to 844 aswell on the website/facebook
@@maxamillianwilliamsso this means… 844 might be returning
Hope they can help the Silvis crew get 3985 set up too
@@wesw9586I’m assuming that they kind of already have, as you can see in recent photos much of the tech upgrades they made on the tender they are borrowing from 3985. One might speculate if Silvis is actually performing (or planning to) the same tech upgrade on 4014’s (technically 4015’s, but I digress) actual tender.
New boiler jacketing looks sharp! Great to see ‘him’ pulling a train sans diesel.
1yr+ old you was not wrong at the time. It wasn't possible then. BUT IT IS NOW AND IT"S AWESOME!!
Wdym? UP had run excursions with steam locos even AFTER they were retired from revenue service. Many videos exist from the 80's and 90's showing 844 (then 8444) and 3985 operating with no diesel helpers.
As far as PTC is concerned, many steam locos in the UK are fitted with TPWS, even though the system was introduced well after the steam era there had ended. The GWR also had ATC on their steam locos as early as 1906.
@@AutismTakesOn Yeah, the GWR was very tech forward for a lot of its history, probably because they had the money to do so, due to their lines being extremely profitable compared to some of the others in the Big Four.
@@AutismTakesOn difference between those models n big boy is they can run without such needed where bigboy was a complete full rebuild from ground up, and there was ZERO models testing of that size power and weight on modern diesel
You were correct at the time you posed it, and now you have the correction. And it’s a great excuse to show more 4014 Big Boy content.
Precisely! Lol.
Let's put it the way Nebraska 66 said it. Roll on big boy, roll on
@@Charlie----WWHGI’m pretty sure that’s it’s unofficial anthem
"You ever feel really stupid?" Several times a day, Hyce.
4014 has once again done a "hold my beer".
Big boy: hold my beer
Everyone: Shit is about to go down
The diesels better watch out . . . THE KING IS BACK!
Biogas steam engine sounds good now... or some alternative fuel
@@srrrb5953 yeah that’s a really good idea maybe with that we can keep steam longer
@@Bud-uz1bw Yea, hope the engineer know how to do that with minimum "changes" to the engine.
Almost 30 tons of coal to go about 60 miles.
When I hear "they added a Second Dynamo", my immediate mental image is Back to the Future 3's Time Train with the electrical arcs and spinning doodads, Bigboy sized.
How else would they reach the 1.21 Jiggawatts needed for being in the future?
IT RUNS ON STEAM
I feel kind of bad for 844, her boiler time is still going but she hasn’t been steamed up since 2019.
4014 has pretty much taken over the show.
I’m happy 4014 is running and has full ptc now, would be nice to give 844 some leg stretching though
We'll see her one of these days soon again.
IIRC 844 isn't in the best condition right now, UP was running her a bit harder then usual right before Big Boy came back and she's feeling the extra miles.
I understood that boiler time doesn't run while not powered up anymore.
@@joshuahudson2170 it does, unfortunately. Service days no, but the 15 year clock remains. That said they can apply for an extension if need be.
@@joshuahudson2170 boiler time is still going even if not fired up or even if there is no water in the locomotive.
Under the FRA you have to do a boiler inspection every 1472 operating days OR 15 years whichever comes first.
I could be off a bit but I think she got back in service 2016. If that is the case that she has gone through 8 years already of the allowed 15. So roughly 7 years remaining before she has to be removed from service for inspection
A friend of mine has been involved with the static and other testing in the last few days. He shared a couple of photos of the cab controls for the PTC and MU reverser and throttle for the diesel when it's hooked up in the consist. He was the one testing the PTC installation. It was odd to see that sort of electronics in the cab of a steam engine. The new unit is on a pivot and can swing in and out.
And by the way, ATSF 2926 might not needed a diesel helper for the first excursion, and some might need a diesel helper for steep terrains. But any case I can't wait to see 2926 in operation in person (Fingers crossed)
I really hope N&W 611 gets a similar upgrade, just to allow her to move more often without a diesel.
Imagine if she didn't have to wait for Ferry moves whenever they wanted to get somewhere to run? it would be amazing.
Unless things change in terms of PSR and NS's perspective on steam locomotives and willingness to shell out money for insurance costs, I wouldn't count on it. For the PTC installation to be worthwhile, 611 would first need to be allowed to lead a train on NS's trackage.
So we can hope! Unfortunately it's not just the tech that's a roadblock, the humans can be one as well... we shall see.
@PowerTrain611 doubtful that N&W will do anything that doesn't make money for the shareholders.
@@jamesbuckner4791 Well, N&W doesn't exist anymore, they are now part of NS, so yeah, I guess I agree 😆
@@jamesbuckner4791 Unfortunately, people who get into positions where they can make those sorts of decisions are rarely foamers themselves - there's a similar phenomenon with car manufacturers and hopping in and out of motorsports due to a particular CEO's interest or lack of interest in it.
Quick note about the 2816… it is AWESOME and it is beautiful. It was parked across the street from where I work in Kansas City for a week and I loved seeing it every day. I brought my 3 year old daughter to the event and she has not shut up about it. Nice to know it’s got the same upgrades that 4014 now has.
Get her a Marx Canadian pacific set for Xmas.
The last thing I thought hyce would talk about was 2816. I love that locomotive, I had the great honor of seeing it twice before it left Calgary for Mexico. Hyce if you ever want to talk more about 2816 and it's ptc let me know, I have many friends thar know ever part of that locomotive.
By all means - please shoot me an e-mail at the channel e-mail! Hyce7777@gmail.com.
@@Hyce777 will do, and done
I’m going to guess they’ll always bring the diesel for ferry runs, for the dynamic brakes and the lower wear on the Big Boy. They may leave it at the yard for some excursions, so long as the grades and the timetables aren’t going to put undue stress on the locomotive. I think your points about the cost of fabricating replacement parts still stand. They want to run it, but they don’t want to run it into the ground.
First it rescued a Diesel from being stranded, and now it can run without Diesel assistance. The Big Boy really is getting the last laugh as a champion of Steam.
When I did the steam shop tour in march, they talked about the PTC upgrade. They said it was so they weren’t tied to a single point failure with 4015. If the 4015 goes down the Big Boy has to stop and wait for it to be fixed because 4015s PTC was modified to work with the Big Boy. Now if 4015 goes down they can pull any loco from the fleet to keep the Big Boy moving
💯
Really regard this as the first I'm getting to see the BB pull... you never knew how much the diesel electric was contributing. Awesome.
CPKC currently running CP 2816 from Canada to Mexico: Neat.
UP runs 4014 on the mainline without a diesel with working PTC: *OH MY LANDS WE ARE WITNESSING HISTORY LADS!!!*
2816 is incredible. Unfortunately, for the sake of a video, it still has a diesel behind... lol. and I am hoping to go see it and film it myself.
@@Hyce777 But, the diesels it has behind, look far more cooler.
@@jonathanp935 And the lineup changes. It started with Fs and Hydrogen locos, then just Fs, now it's got the first Evo to be painted in CPKC's new paint scheme.
@@Hyce777 I didn't mean anything by it, just to be clear. I meant to poke fun at "foamer" priorities.
2816 has had PTC installed in it for almost a year. The diesels are there just to assist with stopping and if something goes wrong and they need help
One thing I've always wondered about steam locomotives is why does the Doppler effect for the chuffing get reversed? Why does the pitch of the chuffing change from high to low and then back to high as it passes you?
Hyce also while they are installing these units on Big Boy Alex Beams is installing the same systems on 261, The Empress 2816, and on 3985 and 5511. When Big Boy goes east and does its boiler wash at Silvis all they have to do is unplug the cable, swap the tenders, and hook everything back up. #3985 and #5511 will use the same system as Big Boy that way they can operate all three locomotives on the main line. The only reason they need the diesel is dynamics and Tunnel 41 is oil burner territory so they will need a diesel to pilot them through the tunnel.
Very interesting. Hopefully 844 will be the next to get this gear.
"4014 can't run the railroad without help from a diesel locomotive."
4014's crew: *surprised Pikachu face* "So then I took that personally..."
Excellent presentation. Thank you. Amazing that UP keeps the 4014 updated for all of us to enjoy. That said, having a backup power unit in the form of a diesel makes really smart sense. The 4014 is really, really special and just knowing that unit is back there :just in case" is really good insurance.
Canadian Pacific's steam crew developed the non-diesel version of PTC, got regulatory approval and successfully tested it in Alberta last year. Part of the Aldersyde Subdivision (south of Calgary) was used for the tests, I'm not sure if they actually installed some PTC equipment out in the field or just added this section to the database since we don't have PTC in Canada (yet). Hope you do manage to get out and see 2816, I chased one of the test runs to Edmonton and followed the first leg of the trip from Calgary to Dunmore (the yard just east of Medicine Hat). Amazing engine and an excellent experience, their steam crew is doing an awesome job and I can't wait to see the engine again when she's back in Alberta.
More likely than not, the diesel will still be there on the multi-week long tours. Too much utility with the diesel as a range extender and a brake saver vs without. I could see them doing Cheyenne to Denver and return without one though.
I sense it'll end up hiding at the tail end of the train. just incase it needs to reverse anywhere atleast.
I swear watching this mammoth beast chugging up the rail is a life altering experience. There is NOTHING to compare to the sound of these enormous engines actually working and doing what they were built for. Incredibly cool. If you've never seen U.P. #4014 'Big Boy', it's DEFINITELY worth looking at the schedule for the yearly tour.
Seeing how CPKC and UP have done this, one wonders if other active main-line-capable steam engines would likely have it installed (glancing over at N&W 611).
If you hadn't told me that box on the tender was a PTC antenna, I wouldn't have known. I suspect 90% of other people won't know or care either (and the last 10% will be screaming that they "ruined" the engine). Great to see this upgrade, hopefully this can be applied to other big engines as well. 4449, 700, 3751, 2926, 765, 1228, the list goes on...
Yeah, as someone who's pretty picky about keeping things "historical" in look, I'm pleased to see it wasn't that noticeable or awkward-looking. You might have mistaken it for some kind of toolbox. I've heard that Santa Fe 2926 at least has been equipped with a lot of PTC stuff already, so hopefully they can somehow carefully add this to it as well (let's really hope that Albuquerque giant can FINALLY make her first excursions this year).
The question now becomes, will Kato add the PTC antenna to the model and have yet another 4015 version to sell.
Knowing Kato they'll add the PTC to the 4014 and sell the 4015 diesel as it is.
Hopefully we can see other big steam engines in the states get this kind of set up fitted, like the 611, C&O 2716 in the coming years!
I just love steam and seeing it as it’s meant to be (on its own, doing what it does) is glorious. The Big Boy is a treasure that I hope to see running in person someday. Thanks for sharing, Hyde.
UP did this of their own accord. When the Steam Team was first restoring her to running order, Union Pacific sent a letter in 2018 asking the FRA to waive modern PTC requirements for 4014. The FRA responded by saying that 4014 did not need PTC installed to run on the main. There are links on 4014s wiki that direct you to an archived version of the Trains magazine articles outlining both UPs letter to the FRA and the FRA response. Truly a case of "F*** it, we'll do it anyways."
I think the waiver rejection was specifically because, at the time UP applied, PTC wasn't required to be installed yet (not the end of 2020). Now I suspect it is required regardless.
That's delightful.
@@BandanRRChannel From what I've read in forums and the FRA regulations surrounding PTC requirements for preserved equipment, the waiver system still stands. Operations will have to ensure that there is a crewed trailing unit equipped with PTC that is in communication with the non-PTC-equipped lead unit. Despite this, as we've seen, many preservation operations around the country are choosing to go the more capital-intensive route by investing in an organic PTC solution to ensure mainline operations of preserved locomotives.
@@yohannamaulawin631after all, it is probably cheaper to keep it running and generating revenue than it is to leave it idle. Since 4014 is a most mighty locomotive indeed, I'm sure it could manage a super hot intermodal even now and put a dent in the supply chain snarl.
@@johnrickard8512 As much as I'd like to see 4014 pull a hotshot Z train like 3895 did when APL asked UP to do so in the 80s(?), I highly doubt it would happen unless one of UP's major intermodal partners requested it, as APL did. Also, I don't think UP expects 4014 to break even regarding operations. Management most likely rationalized that the marketing value that 4014 brings in is enough to offset the cost of running what is essentially an extra on the main.
Not only is it great to see her/hear her without a diesel helper, but with some freight as well! Even if they're using it for braking reasons lol
Always awesome to hear how they truly should sound, thundering down the tracks under a proper load
Wow! Lot's of jaws hit the floor today. I still think the diesel will be part of the run this June for all the reasons before, but this video clearly proves once and for all that the 4014 is fully capable of doing what it was designed to do completely unassisted. Well done UP steam crew.
Yeah, wouldn't be surprised. When 844 came over Donner years ago, they had the diesels to push/pull through the tunnels when they killed the fire in the box.
4014 might be fine, but it's really about how brave Ed and the guys feel heading into Big Hole
'Do you ever feel really stupid?'
Yes quite a bit, carry on.
Does Big Boy and 4014 run on coal or fuel oil? I had wondered why if power where the problem they didn't add a small diesel generator and batteries in an un-obvious compartment in the tender? Or, they could have created a special disguise freight car that would be right behind the tender with the genset and batteries. That would provide all the power also needed for passenger cars.
The 4014 burns oil. And all of these excursion trains have a special car equipped with a diesel generator to provide all the power the train needs for the coaches. The UP Heritage page shows these cars.
@@FFred-us9tw Tnx for the info.
Big Boy doing the thing with no diesel on a relatively (for modern steam) heavy load is just a sight to behold. Truly one of the coolest advancements made in mainline running with her and CP 2816. It will be interesting which societies adapt this to which engines because that will be truly something
Thank you so much for the update. It is marvelous that the UP steam shop was able (and the company was willing to pay the cost) to get the necessary filtered power out of two (!) dedicated dynamos and find a home for the pallet load of electronic gear. If nothing else, it should allow some wonderful run-by photos and videos.
excellent follow up on your original thoughts, Hyce.
i think that as awesome as this now is, they will almost certainly keep the diesel in for longer trips. and of course going up and down the steep grades in california.
i hope i am wrong, but seems like that’s what is going to happen haha
I heard the people behind the N&W J611 were waiting to see how the PTC would be installed and function on the Big Boy to see if they wanted to pursue something similar with the 611. They were thinking it might be cost prohibitive to develop one for the 611 unless it was proven elsewhere that it would pass legal requirements and get approval. It does seem like something not worth sinking money into developing if you aren't sure it will be allowed when you are done. I hope they go for it after seeing this, but i can also see the not wanting to make significant changes to the locomotives side of things.
There such things as capacitors and chokes and voltage regulators, so it's possible to build a filter to clean up power.
UP has a lot of faith and trust in the engine and crew that there won't be any issues, especially on a mainline. No way they do this unless they're near certain they won't have any problems. This is pretty darn cool!
I'm trying to count how many PBL Sn3 engines are on the shelves behind you. Not sure if it is 4 or 5, plus the OM Rotary Snow Plow. Looks like a RGS 20, 344, maybe a K-36, not sure about the others.
When was this filmed? I hope you were able to see CPR 2816. I got to see it with my son in Moose Jaw, SK, and we had a blast.
This last weekend was depo days in Cheyenne and we were able to go in to the steam shop to see Big Boy up close. As of Saterday this week the PTC was not working and they had a bunch of people working on a weekend to get it working for testing this week!
I am by no means an expert on the subject, but I envisioned using a vintage B Unit (or multiple B Units) as helpers behind the tender(s), all painted to resemble the passenger consist to blend in, which could be operated from the cab of the steam engine for use as helpers and for dynamic braking purposes. Anyway it's just a thought.
Not only braking but it earns it's keep by pulling a revenue fright while they test the new equipment.
I had thought there was something off with the previous video, steam engines in europe frequently run solo and they must have similar requirements for safety equipment. It's great to see the technology being proved in the US, though like you say there are other reasons that diesels will continue to be seen.
Cool to see 4014 able to handle the modern computer. I know they got their tools and repair car, but I figured the diesel was there for backup just in case depending on the situation and fix needed.
I presume the way they were able to get the electricity from the Dynamos clean enough to power the PTC computers and other electronics was through a battery bank. I guess the dynamos would charge the batteries and the batteries would filter the electricity to keep it clean and consistent for the components. Could be wrong though.
This whole topic has been incredibly fascinating for me though. It’s the fact that we’re able to take this new and fairly sophisticated rail technology and allow it work with something as primitive as a steam engine, all the way down to the fact that the system itself being powered by said steam.
As from talking with some of the crew when they came through Jefferson City, Missouri. The reason for the diesel was the air supply. The Big Boy's compressors are not quite up to modern code (at that time).
That's actually 100% incorrect. If the big boy was controlling the brakes (which it does), unless they added MU hoses no one's noticed there's no way for the diesel to add to the air supply.
@@Hyce777 This is what I was told while they were here during their overnight stay at Jefferson City, when I asked about running without the diesel. That's not the say things may have changed since then, and they now get to run without it.
It could also be because they were running passenger service at that time, and had to work within the rules and regulations around it.
@@CJ-jo6do wouldn't be surprised, haha.
The Empress is a beauty, I hope you get a chance to see her. I didn't make it to Moose Jaw to see her, but a friend caught her on video from on top of the airseeder as she went right past the field they were working in near Rouleau! Magnificent!
you've helped me learn so much about steam locomotives, Thank you!
That was really great to see and hear. Thanks for showing us.
I feel they'll still have a diesel helper where there are serious downhill grades for the very reason you just highlighted, Hyce! The diesel has something the Big Boy and all the other steam locomotives currently preserved will never have, and that's dynamic braking. Sure, the Big Boy could handle a long, heavy train over mountainous terrain without any assistance, however, as the old say goes, "what goes up, must go down"! It doesn't do the Railroad much good showing off their big newly restored steam locomotive pulling a monster sized train upgrade, only to have it melt the brakes off the cars and/or the locomotive going downhill, causing a runaway with potential devastating results!
1:25 a german steam engine crew did similar with adding a second generator to power the german track security system (PZB) seperately from lights and other systems.
If I remember rightly, it's the Class 50 3616 from Your video "IT'S A PROTEST? German Revenue Steam in 2024!" but I'm not totally sure anymore on which engine I've seen it
She won't go on long trips without a helper because what if she broke down? Also when they stay close to the yard they keep parts on hand.. Brakes are why I'm told they use the helper primarily
The DC Power side of things for the PTC wouldn't be that complicated these days with the modern Railroad spec DC-DC Coverters available now.
The Dynamos can be used to feed a bank of suitable capacitors at it's normal voltage range, and then DC-DC Converters can be used to regulate and convert that into clean 74vDC that the equipment needed.
Batteries can also then be added as needed, which are kept charged by the Dynamo, and will keep the equipment alive for a while if there is an issue with the dynamo.
Would be interesting to see if they actually have any of that stuff installed, or if they are just relying on the internal power supplies to have a wide enough input range that they will directly accept the Dyanmo output.
Pretty likely 4015 will still be along on major excursions as to helping extend the travel between fuel and water stops
Having a diesel along just for the dynamic brakes is still a good idea, especially given all the big grades out west, saves a lot of wear and tear on 4014's brake system.
You possess a skill that is rare these days, the ability to be graciously corrected. Thanks for the update. Now the question is will the 4015 be folded back into the pool or does the steam department retain custody?
That's cool as hell! On top of the tender, the antennas are almost a cool easter egg. The little additions that let this old beast work with modern tech.
Keep in mind that there are two for reasons other than redundancy.
I just had an idea manifest.
For dynamic braking on the 4014 (and maybe others, if my idea is crazy enough to work…) add “traction” motors somewhere on the locomotive, drivers, tender, I don’t know. Then for your heating grid, place that inside the boiler. So now, your dynamic braking is contributing to your steam production, and lower fuel usage.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk
Boom, mic drop
Harry out
Tom Blasingame has had variants of this for quite some time.
Use the pedestal axles on the tender, with one of the usual solutions to modify the field in detected wheelslide. Feed power to elements in a circulating 'bypass heater' like that on rebuilt BR 52 8055. (Unit then doubles as standby heater to keep the engine in steam at high pressure, just as on 8055)
I just saw that No. 4014 is going to here on display in Roseville on July 12-13th. I instantly thought that of course you would have a video on it. I totally am going to try and go take a look at it while it's here.
Hope you're able to sync up yours and 2816's schedule so you can see it. Caught her coming through Lake Forest Illinois on inbound Chicago leg and if you're going to do diesel protection on a steam move a pair of maroon and gray script FP9s are sweet and at least looks like that power consist could have happened.
Back in the day you said that every time they run big boy they need to look for water towers along the route so now i propose a better solution:
Put a HUGE water pump in one of the cars behind big boy and get a wide hose, now all you need to do is to stop in a river, lake or creek and just pump water into the tender.
And how much the biggest water pump out there weighs?
I want to think that Ed saw your video and took it to heart and said screw it.
I'd be perfectly OK with that. lol!
That locker you speak of was where the stoker engine was located when the locomotive burned coal.
Love this. :) I was able to go see the Big Boy a few years back, which was great fun. Diesel may be effective, but it'll never have the heart steam has.
Do I ever feel stupid? Yes. Just so you don't feel alone.
Anybody know if it's got it's own tender back from repaint? Ive been watching for the tender here in the Silvis yard, 4014 was running with the Challenger's tender in the meantime.
Im really hoping my work schedule is more sane soon so i can volunteer at RRHMA and be around steam powered beasts more often!
I think it's still the challenger tender?
all we need now is for them to throw it onto a hot intermodal and stroll up sherman hill at speed without help and they can "beat" challenger
ed dickens isnt gonna be happy how much the wear and tear gonna cost it
That locker on the Tender I believe was just a tool box/equipment locker originally. Now that's how you repurpose a space. :)
Hello Hyce!Just heard today from my very aware friend that the 2819, on June 29th. is going to be running a ticketed excursion from Silvis shops to Bureau and back. I believe they will be using UP equipment rather than the CP train equipment. Sounds like it will be $142. 2819 will be spending a few days prior at the former RI Silvis shops for a boiler cleaning,
Perhaps some type of dynamic brake sled be created?
I’ve always wondered if it could run without a diesel and here it is a few years later, finally running without a diesel. That thing sounds beautiful without it!
If they could dig up electric bogies and build the fan-cooled resistor packs into boxcars they could add dynamic braking. Necessary, if they need to haul coal to both balance costs and try to limit heat/cold cycling.
Very cool! I know that to meet today's PTC regs the diesel would be a necessity, but now that that's no longer an issue, I hope he goes it solo. Heck, Big Boy had no problem taking care of himself for years and it looks like he hasn't aged a day!
4:00 Is that the same place where that Challenger was recorded at full power? That one instances like 40 years ago where there is only one video off?
Now they can just hook up a battery slug to take advantage of dynamic braking and have on demand tractive effort, they don’t need an entire extra locomotive anymore, room for something custom maybe
neat-o looks like the team in Cheyenne did great work once again. hopefully they know how much there labors are appreciated.
It's great they did this, realization I just had though is they have to rip it all out again when they do the tender swap with RRHMA to return 3985s tender and take back 4014s tender once the conversion to oil on that is complete
Yup... or make a deal with those folks and do it over again. who knows
I cannot imagine that the equipment is not on sleds with standardized connectors, if for no other reason than to facilitate quick field troubleshooting and repair "with the clock running".
I can't believe UP actually made this work. Watching 4014 roll past with its regular consist - Hi, steam crew, decorating the doors - no diesel! and a bunch of graffiti'd rustbucket modern hoppers is positively surreal. Thank you for the fun video and it'll be fun to see what UP Steam gets up to with this new capability.
PS. If you ever get to film with Ed (dreams), now you have something else to talk about.....
and here I thought the diesel was for emergency back up to clear the line if the Big Boy did break down. Thanks for the video :)
That is part of the reason. And that’s why you will never see any long distance excursions without a diesel
your comera now is SOOO much better lol
Dude, that's what I thought during the edit, lol. Huge freaking difference. Special thanks to Chris Gill who top chatted me the money for the camera as a surprise the one live stream.
Camera
Plot twist: it's not a new camera, he just wiped the lens clean.
regulators aren't just for steam flow they work on electrons too
I’m going to said this Hyce. PTC was possible on a steam locomotive, as the GWR in the UK were the first to ever to invent an early design of PTC, but it worked on steam locomotives.
actually didn't know it was headed to california this summer. thanks for that
0:15 yes sometimes
I got to see the locomotive here in Calgary. I hope you can see it too beautiful locomotive brought a tear to my eye.
I always love the two minute outro of the trains and music with the thank you board
It's just so peaceful
It will be amazing to see 4014 running with out diesel unit assistance. I'm gonna hope that they'll apply the same applications on 844 and bring her out for a run. The grand old lady hasn't been fired up since 2019! Here's hoping 🤞
Just wanted to point out mostly for the folks commenting, ATSF 2926 has had PTC long before 4014 did, UP did not create something brand new here.
Not standalone PTC like this though, 4014 was the first steam locomotive to implement any kind of PTC and then ATSF 3751 was right behind it. CP 2816 was the first locomotive to have standalone PTC with it being installed and tested in October of last year, 4014 just had this new system installed this year
Now this is what I love about the Big Boy and it's needed upgrades. I so wanted to see it run on the main pulling revenue producing freight. Earning its keep if you will. This is how it was meant to be.
For this old timer at least, it makes my heart go pitter-pat.