I was so lucky to be in the US Navy during the late '70's and early '80's when the PC boom started. Admiral Grace Hooper was already a hero to military computing, and became a personal hero as I started to learn computing. (I had also been in the Nuclear Navy, so Admiral Rickover was another hero. I was honored to have served while both were also still serving.) Wherever she was, Grace Hopper would frequently host public talks, and she'd often hand out "nanoseconds" to the attendees, which were pieces of wire just under a foot long, to illustrate the distance light traveled in a nanosecond. She later slightly shortened her wires to illustrate the distance an electrical pulse traveled down a copper wire in a nanosecond, making the illustration more concrete. (Electrical signals in a wire move 20-30% slower than light.) I had, and missed, two opportunities to attend an Admiral Hopper talk. I have very few regrets in life, but those are two of them! When I left active duty in '81' to attend college and major in Computer Engineering (all of CS + digital part of EE), I was surprised how few women there were in my classes, especially given the example of my own hero, Grace Hopper. However, just as Danielle mentioned, by then men such as Kildall, Gates, Jobs and Wozniak were the more popular "tech heroes".
Its interesting that nw we use light for data transmission in certain areas of computing! Kinda comes full circle there. You sound like you have lived an interesting life!!
Wow so interesting! My mother was a computer programmer from the mid-1970s until she retired in the 2000s. I did not know it was considered "secretarial work" when my mom was getting into the field.
Researching this episode was very surprising for me too! But so many self taught women helped to pioneer the field, despite the representations in the media. Thanks for watching!
If it was a data entry operator where keystrokes per minute were important, then yes it was, otherwise, no it wasn't. I was first introduced to computers and taught to love them by three people all of whom were mathmaticians and computer science majors in college. (They were also all ladies.)
I think the time it was considered secretarial must have been earlier or only for data entry as noted in the previous comment. I’ve been in computer work as a programmer or systems administrator since the mid-seventies and even then women experienced bias. An aunt of mine worked in a bank in the 60s when computers were being brought in and they trained men but wouldn’t allow women into the program so they could move up. She finally paid for her own training and they were forced to give her the next position when one opened.
Girl programmer here! Any others out there? In college my female classmates were more likely to be studying electrical engineering than CS but I loved the conceptual problem solving of software more. Now that I've been in the workforce for a decade my female coworkers are almost always 10 to 15 years older. It blows my mind that other girls didn't want to be programmers but I remember my female peers in looking down on my love of computers. It was usually the girls who criticized not the boys.
Interesting perspective! This was a very complex issue and we did have to condense it down a lot to fit the time frame. Hopefully we can do another follow up in the future to reveal more information on bias. Thanks for watching!
This doesnt surprise me, sadly. Women can be catty, and some love cutting other women down, rather than supporting and building them up. I am guessing this sometimes stems from jealousy-but may also have evolutionary psychology origins as well. It may come from a tribal pressure to conform to "societal/group norms". In such a scenario, i imagine women would be the ones to police other women who were not conforming. Just some thoughts. Remember folks, when we overcome our baser instincts, we are capable of amazing things! Everything from having a positive impact on someone's mood, to changing someone's life, to changing the world! Think positive, be positive, support eachother, and work together!
I love the phrase "you cannot be what you cannot see" - so true! When I was little, Captain Planet was all the rage and it had so many depictions of women in STEM. Dr Blight in particular, but also Linka was very good with computers. I think this show single-handedly made me see computer programming and science as girl things. I learned to program very young (
But women don't want to do STEM. This is cross-cultural. Women tend to favor person-oriented jobs over thing-oriented jobs. And STEM is highly thing-oriented. It's not a moral judgement. Men and women just differ temperamentally on average in ways that aggregate significant change at the extremes of the skill/interest bell curves. This is a psychological truth that isn't really in dispute. We tend to blame things on social pressure, when the evidence really says otherwise. And of course you can be what you cannot see. Otherwise nobody would ever be the first anything. Nobody would ever try anything new. It's a preposterous phrase on its face.
We are Ms. Glunz’ seventh grade English Language Arts class at Audubon Middle School in Milwaukee, WI. We just finished watching this video, which gave us amazing information on the topic we are learning about in our class. We are learning about the gender and racial wage gap in the United States. We would like to share some information that stood out to us or surprised us. First, we were surprised that women did a lot of work in creating early computers and the software that made them smart, but when those computers or programs were made public, they received no recognition. Second, we were really surprised by the rapid decrease in women programmers around the year 1984 and the continued decline through the 2000’s. We would like to see more women studying computer science! P.S. We thought the video was a little fast. Our teacher had to stop it several times to explain what was said. On the other hand, we learned A LOT of new words :)
This just made my day! Hello to all of the students in Ms. Glunz' class! I'm glad you found the video helpful and you learned a lot. Sorry about the fast pace. I'm originally from the Northeast and tend to speak very quickly, especially when I'm excited about teaching a new subject (#nerdproblems). But I'll try to speak slower and more clearly in the future so that it's easier to follow along. I hope that you're all doing and well and finding time to study new subjects that keep you interested. It's great to see that you're thinking about innovation at a young age. And thanks for sending me this message! All best wishes for the holidays! -Danielle
In the words of my dad: "The typing class in high-school was pretty much attended only by women - because why would we [guys] need to know those things?" His tone was ironic because, of course, he works in front of a computer now.
A staggering number of publications, from fiction novels to scientific publications in the world were actually typed by the wives of the authors (or girlfriend, sister etc.), because men associated these skills with secretaries and either literally couldn't type themselves or just considered it bellow them or not worth their time. So it was their wives who turned that messy manuscript into their typewriter or digital form, often while doing proofreading and editing. Nonetheless none of these women were ever credited for their work. A professor named Bruce Holsinger even made a Twitter hashtag #ThanksForTyping gathering and sharing works typed by women who are nonetheless never credited, only by "my wife".
@@MariaHellerDesigns oh my gosh this makes totally a sense and i never realized this, regarding the pieces of messy handwriting and all... oh . thank you for mentioning this dear!!
While teaching data processing (programming & systems analysis) at a technical institute in the 80s, we actively recruited women into our program because they were better at programming and far superior than the guys in systems analysis. Guy seemed to think they knew what was best and the gals tended to ask what was wanted and could explain why they might had a different solution. It is good to see things changing.
I'm a female Computer Science and Math double major. I go to a mostly female school, but somehow my major classes are mostly male. I will say for the record that my love life has suffered since I mostly like women and there aren't a lot of women (and therefore even less queer women) who share my interests. This seems a rather unimportant side issue since I'm not exactly in the field for dating reasons, but it does make me rather sad that I might not be able to come home and talk intelligently with my wife about what we do at work. I keep giggling at the idea that if I have kids, they might feel like CS is a woman's field since one or both of their moms will work in CS.
I don't know about US. But in ex-soviet country, the small most IT-advanced country (Estonia) in the world, I have mostly seen women in 90s, operating and programming computers. Now after 2000 I see men more interested in programming. Its hard to find women. But operating PC-s I see equal interest. I mean those small ones, in our pockets. With LTE and Wifi connectivity.
Whoa, that was way more complex I expected! It goes to show just how interesting sociology can be. You've just got another sub. This format --- the clear, logical, and motivated development based on questions --- is top-notch, and not just on youtube, but even most academic work fails to be this well-written.
im in my first year of uni for a cs degree and my batch is almost equally female/mal, which helps me hold on to the hope that women will be much more involved in the future of computer science
Awesome episode! I was lucky enough to hear Rear Admiral Hopper speak at The Ohio State University while a student there in the 80s. I would add one EXTREMELY IMPORTANT shout-out: Limor Freid (aka Lady Ada), the founder and lead engineer at Adafruit. I believe that she is a great role model and inspiration for girls and women who have interests in STEM.
Thanks for adding to the list!! So many great women that we couldn't give shout outs to (only because our episodes are so short). Thanks for citing more names for our viewers to look up!
This is cobbled together propaganda. Please don't fall for the narrative that men conspired to kick women out of programming by way of magazine ads, this video is basally copy/pasted from propaganda articles that have been circulated for a while.
Great video, my husband is a pen tester and I go to company meetings and the have there programmers and as a whole I see a lot of women , which I think is so cool.
My dad took a typing class in high school, which would be late 70s or very early 80s. He took that class instead of a second English class because he knew the teacher of the English class hated him and would probably fail him. He said he was the only guy in that typing glass, so it was a win-win for him.
Another reason why women had an early in, in computer science was that a lot of their skills from other fields were useful early on. A lot of women tended to work jobs that required more precision like sewing, this became useful in early electronics as they had to be assembled entirely by hand. In fact also in Apollo it was women who made the memory for the computers and literally sew it by hand, they hired old seamstresses as they were the only ones who could make something that precisely and on such a large scale. Women also worked at a lot of electronics factories for this same reason and also worked as switchboard operators, this of course naturally made them more familiar with these things.
I'd like to see the other side of the coin, professions that used to be male dominated and is now seen as inherently feminine and the usual loss of status that goes along with this. As a teacher in training I wonder if the profession would be better paid or there would be more trust in individual teachers to design their own lessons (instead of often very prescriptive curriculum and testing schedules that leave little room for teachers to follow their class' interest) if the 19th century male domination of the career had continued.
Since it was not mentioned in the video I’d like to mention Margaret Hamilton who was the director of the software department at the MIT Instrumentation Laboratory for the Apollo program among many things.
You should also checkout the programs like 'Outreachy' and 'Rails Girls Summer of Code' which aims at increasing diversity in open source. P.S. I'm an alumni of one of them and have been involved as a organizer in another one.
I want to enter the field of computer science. I didn’t even know that few women join until not too long ago I found out by going to a computer science mock class and saw there were only guys. The professor was a woman and pointed out that it was rare to find females interested in joining. *like* ❤️ If your a female that is interested/ inspired to join the field of computer science😆👩💻💁♀️💻🔬
Recently, I'm interested in CS. I was planning my major in biochemistry, and now I'm in between both. Still not sure which one I should study even though they are so different than each other. But, if I choose CS, I hope I can meet some female in the class instead of the all-male one.
Wow. These videos are just amazing.... more please??? Also, I fully agree with this video - I'd seen the sexist ads, but never really noticed them before; while also wondering (and asking) why there aren't more women in information technology fields. Thinking back on growing up in the 80's, there WAS a very strong push that computers were for boys, and girls did other things, like play with barbies or whatever. This is so wrong... we need to make this better.
"If women played a significant role in early programming, then, why did we start assuming that computer programming could only be done by men"? Who exactly said that? When you don't have an argument, just make one up, right?
The question is actually "If women played a significant role in early programming, then *WHEN* did we start assuming that computer programing could only be done by men?"
Having worked in the Information Technology field for twenty-six years before retiring, I have worked with many female IT personnel at every level and more than 50% of my supervisors were female. If there is a bias towards men in any area of IT it's made up for in other areas. Programmers, although important in the field make up a small part of the IT industry. I am basing this not only on my own experience, but also on : www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat18.htm which provides statistics that say outside of computer systems design (which is a subset of engineering for the hardware systems) most other areas women are at about 42% of the workforce. While not a 50/50 breakdown, it's closer than the 73/27 percent breakdown you stated. As a matter of fact, only one small area of these statistics agree with your numbers. That's the aforementioned engineering/IT overlap area. Yes it is the only one that uses the word, "computer," but it's such a small portion of the information technology industry that is very misleading to use that set of numbers to represent IT as a whole. You are discounting the myriad of women who work in IT everyday.
0:50 Was she *really* the first programmer? Some historians don't think so. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Lovelace#Controversy_over_extent_of_contributions
just looked it up and only about 25% of computer programmers were women in 1940. So it dropping to less then that could purely be the requirements of the field changing. This video brings up some valid points but then trys to support them with nitpicked stats or just avoiding stats when it may not fit the narrative. Nothing has stopped women in the past so many years from becoming comp sci majors and I can tell you right now marketing had nothing to do with me or any of my friends interest in joining the field. Less women do anything math oriented weather that be engineering, psychics or programming. The few women I personally know that are getting into the field are getting into it for all the wrong reasons. It is always some idealized picture of what programming is like, but then again I think thats a pretty good chunk of programmers overall.
Unfortunately more and more of the IT / Programming jobs are being moved to other countries to take advantage of cheap labor. Not a very encouraging market to be in currently, unless you are the "best of the best".
And you only get to be the "best of the best" with experience or you happen to develop something that takes the world by storm (which is extremely rare). It's a catch 22 for a lot of people.
Sorry I forgot to add the links to the works cited! Here they are and I'll update the page :) Thanks for watching news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/10/beaver-butt-goo-vanilla-flavoring/ www.bbc.com/future/story/20140829-the-secrets-of-fake-flavours
73% is veeery optimistic. If 1/4 of CS bachelors are girls(?), You know nothing about how many of them actually will work as real software developers(not QA, PM or HR). Maybe nobody.
Great insightful history. When men and women work together we achieve so much. The problem isn't lack of women in tech, it's the fact that they don't work well with other men. I have women in my field right now who are more interested in competing against men than working with men, like they have to prove a point.
The reason to that is probably because men treat them as inferior, sparking the desire for women to prove themselves. If there was an equitable treatment of women in the field in the first place, collaboration between genders would not be an issue.
Discovered you thanks to Deep Look. Good channel however try to speak slower. It is not that you are not understandable, just annoying after a while. In conclusion have a good one and keep the stuff up 💪💪
I don't think it's appropriate to compare the female "human computers" With modern programing as those people were usually computing one or two algorithms were a programmer has to invent new algorithms and methods So not just "computing data" Using a method the likely male boss taught them but ACTUALLY creating the methods by which the data is computed in their program. I think this stems at the root of the issue men are more "logical" than women while women are more "emotional" than men and so it's reasonable the more logical sex would be better at Computer science a logic based sector.
You had me up until you got to 1984. From then on what you are saying is not exactly true. First and foremost, it was video game consoles that were marketed towards children, not just specifically boys. And while there were many different computers around at the time (that could also play video games) all that changed with the advent of the IBM Personal Computer (model 5150) a.k.a the IBM PC in 1981. It was a no-nonsense expensive machine (for its time) geared toward professionals. NOT, something you would buy for a little boy. Even though it also play video games. It created a new standard and killed off the market for other computers using other computer architectures. From then on, everyone slowly started making IBM PC compatible computers based on that architecture. It created an industry standard. And though things have become more advanced since then, that basic standard it created still exists in computers to this day. It's the reason you can put Windows OS on PCs from different manufacturers and use the same software on all of them. Also, families who had PCs in the 80s usually had one and would keep it in a centralized location in their homes. Usually the living room, dining room, or kitchen. So anyone who was allowed to use it had easy access to it. Which of course included any female member of the household.
And if you are perceived as a woman in STEM, you will likely be subject to a lot of harassment and sexism. I am a trans man and I was still 'female presenting' when I first started my chemistry degree, and even though I did all the work and excelled in tests and lab work, TAs and professors would overlook it and/or flat out give the credit to male students.
Whoever has power reserve the best job for himself. It's all about staying aware of the competition. The workplace for some it's war and they will do everything to win. Sadly, many go to work with the romantic idea of collaboration and simply put the best effort.
@@ChickenManiac Women just copy what they learned from men and men discover and invent new things . Deal with it men are much more smarter and better in everything except maybe in giving birth
oh my god. thank you for this. all these obstacles actually happened... my mom worked on one of the huge room computers and i've met this gender discrimination when i naively went to ask for a job in a male dominated company, they basically took my test and laughed at it... shit, i have no idea it - a history of my own life - is again ALL SHAPED UP BY THE WINNERS, again. cause winners are who writes it. THANK YOU! :-o *hugely shocked clicking 8979862likes*
What? Women have a long and important history in computing? How is this possible with the racisims and the hierarchy? Unless, it is truly about meritocracy and these ladies earned it. Right?
Ok karen, there's a feature in youtube that allows you to slow down the video. Click the gear icon next to the fullscreen button, then change the playback speed. I personally think the speaker talks too slow, requiring me to speed up the video. That just goes to show that there is no proper speed that a commentator needs to speak at...
Just like women didn't attend to universities until the XVIII century because they weren't interested in science? Oh wait, that's the excuse they gave to not let women in! Stupid incel.
@@kiriki4558 First: there is no reason to be offensive. You calling someone you don't know "incel" on the internet clearly qualifies you more than me. Think about it. Second: It's been a while since women can access any university curriculum they want. Your argument is a non sequitur. Mine instead still remains an hypothesis that explains reality with a very few background assumptions. Think about it.
A better question would be "Why are there so many women with such a sense of entitlement that believe they should get a job just because of their gender?"
This actual propaganda cobbled together to look like real scholarship. I'm surprised PBS is pushing this, what she's saying towards the middle of the video is full of selectively picked motivated reasoning. It's actually dishonest.
I work for a reputable software company ... as a manger there is no intentional bias against female programmers. we tried or best to encourage them. fHowever we found young men programmers were a ggressive in their willingness to study and adapt ... more methodical ... and were quite smart compaid to the women ... I don't think this narrative holds w ater in today's world
2:36 Compared to programming building hardware *is* the real skill-oriented job. It's much more demanding area, to this day. 3:15 "when did we start assuming that computer programming can only be done by men?" -- Who started assuming this? Who is saying that, straw-man? I find most of this video quite biased, and kind of sexist. I don't see why women specifically should be encouraged to work in IT/CS? Why not encourage people in general? Jobs should be based on merit, not genitals.
What rock have you been living under, that you didn't know about that stereotype? As for encouraging women more, 73% of the field are men, so they are clearly already already getting the encouragement. If you wanted to make sure everyone had a bicycle, and more women already had them, you should buy more male fitted bicycles, even though that means spending more on men.
But why should the ratio be 50/50 in the first place? What is the reason for it? Should every profession have this ratio? I don't think so.. And I see these "equalization" attempts only in areas where there is lot of money and power. Undemocratic parliament quotas, CEO quotas, affirmative action for STEM jobs, ... It's not about justice, or merit, it's a power grab, and society won't benefit from it. Result will be big authoritarian government, and unproductive companies. (See any communist country.)
50/50 is what you'd expect if nothing was up. The idea is that there are people who go into these fields in only there wasn't something inhibiting it. I mean look at people like Noether Emmy, we almost didn't get her. She could have been just as talented, but been just a bit less stubborn. The belief is some echo of these old biases are still there. If you give someone an explicitly irrelevant number, and ask them to estimate something that number will still effect the process. Not going into a field, because you don't see people like you in it, or it feels unfeminine is less on it's face irrational than that.
Really? SHOULD we expect 50/50 ratio? Why? I don't agree, and I don't even think it would be beneficial to the people involved or to the society as a whole. Also there is some anecdotal evidence against this expectation. A while ago there were bunch of articles about Sweden which is quite civilized, liberal, and even pushes gender equality. People are mostly able to chose their profession without inhibitions but they unexpectedly gravitate towards "traditional roles" even more. theculturetrip.com/europe/sweden/articles/swedish-teens-choose-careers-based-on-gender-roles-according-to-science/ And what is up with the so called "dirty jobs"? Like 99% of dirty jobs are done by men. These are usually physically demanding tasks without which civilization would literally grind to a halt. Why isn't there equal distribution there?
But I agree that there still might be actual inhibitions which discourage people with talent from going to a particular field. And I agree that ladies have it worse in this regard. However this definitely won't be fixed by blindly pushing 50/50 ratios...
Because computer programming in the past was a glorified punch hole that anybody can do, so they reserved such job to women while the men did all the heavy lifting, like inventing newer technology. It just so happened that computers were becoming advanced that women were ousted from their jobs and got replaced by competent men who have been studying years in computer science (back then it was a novel study). Who could ever thought that the complexity of such technology could filter out incompetencies.
Need more data on the males starategizing against women, just an ad campaign and masculine traits in programmers needed are just opinions sandwhiched within facts, a very negative claim at that, concur with the other claims though, coding needs to be started young, but antimale claims do not have any base in modern day society, checked out your sources as well. Although some cultural precedence can be viable but the isolated incidents is not enough for such a broad and general anti male claim. But some interesting infos, thanks for that.
What have I learned by watching these formulaic women advocacy videos? That women are goddesses who should never have to work but if they do then logically they should all work in STEM. I don't care what they really want to do, women should only want to work in STEM. So how do we brainwash women into wanting to do this? Let's create some propaganda videos telling women that men have conspired to keep them out of STEM and then fill it with women who worked in STEM, were really successful, and even achieved greatness. (Yeah, that makes sense.) Apparently women are smart enough to work in STEM, but not smart enough to know that. I would like to write more but I have attend a meeting of my secret cabal to oppress women. Busy, busy...
Why would you come here for something you clearly didn't enjoy just to let everyone know that you're a sarcastic spoil-sport? Some of us are actually interested in learning things, so go away and leave us alone. If you've got opinions go write them down someplace people will care to read them.
Or you need to STFU and listen to him. Perhaps they need to do an episode on the "get girls into STEM" phenomenon, which started because it was the *only* area of education where girls did not already have a substantial advantage in the 1980s.
willythemailboy2 Some of us are actually interested in learning things, so go away and leave us alone. If you've got opinions go write them down someplace people will care to read them.
willythemailboy2 William, please stop logging into your other RUclips account to make it look like someone agrees with your babbling. You'd probably be much happier if you spent less time fingerblasting your keyboard, enraged at a non-existent enemy.
Actually, there have been a large slew of those videos, but this video is standing on facts that I myself have researched heavily for a few years. If you want to be a bit more on point, follow the money. A lot of departments get their funding and tax breaks this way. Ever heard the term "diversity hire?". Take a look at that and make a more informed opinion of the matter.
I was so lucky to be in the US Navy during the late '70's and early '80's when the PC boom started. Admiral Grace Hooper was already a hero to military computing, and became a personal hero as I started to learn computing. (I had also been in the Nuclear Navy, so Admiral Rickover was another hero. I was honored to have served while both were also still serving.)
Wherever she was, Grace Hopper would frequently host public talks, and she'd often hand out "nanoseconds" to the attendees, which were pieces of wire just under a foot long, to illustrate the distance light traveled in a nanosecond. She later slightly shortened her wires to illustrate the distance an electrical pulse traveled down a copper wire in a nanosecond, making the illustration more concrete. (Electrical signals in a wire move 20-30% slower than light.)
I had, and missed, two opportunities to attend an Admiral Hopper talk. I have very few regrets in life, but those are two of them!
When I left active duty in '81' to attend college and major in Computer Engineering (all of CS + digital part of EE), I was surprised how few women there were in my classes, especially given the example of my own hero, Grace Hopper. However, just as Danielle mentioned, by then men such as Kildall, Gates, Jobs and Wozniak were the more popular "tech heroes".
Wow this was so insightful! Thanks for sharing your story with our viewers!
Its interesting that nw we use light for data transmission in certain areas of computing! Kinda comes full circle there. You sound like you have lived an interesting life!!
amazing! you're a lucky guy, she was an amazing heroine and i'm always so proud when i see girls in computers related classes :)
Wow so interesting! My mother was a computer programmer from the mid-1970s until she retired in the 2000s. I did not know it was considered "secretarial work" when my mom was getting into the field.
Researching this episode was very surprising for me too! But so many self taught women helped to pioneer the field, despite the representations in the media. Thanks for watching!
If it was a data entry operator where keystrokes per minute were important, then yes it was, otherwise, no it wasn't. I was first introduced to computers and taught to love them by three people all of whom were mathmaticians and computer science majors in college. (They were also all ladies.)
I think the time it was considered secretarial must have been earlier or only for data entry as noted in the previous comment. I’ve been in computer work as a programmer or systems administrator since the mid-seventies and even then women experienced bias. An aunt of mine worked in a bank in the 60s when computers were being brought in and they trained men but wouldn’t allow women into the program so they could move up. She finally paid for her own training and they were forced to give her the next position when one opened.
Girl programmer here! Any others out there?
In college my female classmates were more likely to be studying electrical engineering than CS but I loved the conceptual problem solving of software more. Now that I've been in the workforce for a decade my female coworkers are almost always 10 to 15 years older. It blows my mind that other girls didn't want to be programmers but I remember my female peers in looking down on my love of computers. It was usually the girls who criticized not the boys.
Interesting perspective! This was a very complex issue and we did have to condense it down a lot to fit the time frame. Hopefully we can do another follow up in the future to reveal more information on bias. Thanks for watching!
This doesnt surprise me, sadly. Women can be catty, and some love cutting other women down, rather than supporting and building them up. I am guessing this sometimes stems from jealousy-but may also have evolutionary psychology origins as well. It may come from a tribal pressure to conform to "societal/group norms". In such a scenario, i imagine women would be the ones to police other women who were not conforming. Just some thoughts. Remember folks, when we overcome our baser instincts, we are capable of amazing things! Everything from having a positive impact on someone's mood, to changing someone's life, to changing the world! Think positive, be positive, support eachother, and work together!
I thought all that you fit into under 8 minutes was extraordinary. I mean really. You crushed it. Props.
Who the hell has time to sabotage their own gender?
Yeah :)
I love the phrase "you cannot be what you cannot see" - so true! When I was little, Captain Planet was all the rage and it had so many depictions of women in STEM. Dr Blight in particular, but also Linka was very good with computers. I think this show single-handedly made me see computer programming and science as girl things. I learned to program very young (
But women don't want to do STEM. This is cross-cultural. Women tend to favor person-oriented jobs over thing-oriented jobs. And STEM is highly thing-oriented.
It's not a moral judgement. Men and women just differ temperamentally on average in ways that aggregate significant change at the extremes of the skill/interest bell curves. This is a psychological truth that isn't really in dispute. We tend to blame things on social pressure, when the evidence really says otherwise.
And of course you can be what you cannot see. Otherwise nobody would ever be the first anything. Nobody would ever try anything new. It's a preposterous phrase on its face.
We are Ms. Glunz’ seventh grade English Language Arts class at Audubon Middle School in Milwaukee, WI. We just finished watching this video, which gave us amazing information on the topic we are learning about in our class. We are learning about the gender and racial wage gap in the United States. We would like to share some information that stood out to us or surprised us.
First, we were surprised that women did a lot of work in creating early computers and the software that made them smart, but when those computers or programs were made public, they received no recognition.
Second, we were really surprised by the rapid decrease in women programmers around the year 1984 and the continued decline through the 2000’s. We would like to see more women studying computer science!
P.S. We thought the video was a little fast. Our teacher had to stop it several times to explain what was said. On the other hand, we learned A LOT of new words :)
This just made my day! Hello to all of the students in Ms. Glunz' class! I'm glad you found the video helpful and you learned a lot. Sorry about the fast pace. I'm originally from the Northeast and tend to speak very quickly, especially when I'm excited about teaching a new subject (#nerdproblems). But I'll try to speak slower and more clearly in the future so that it's easier to follow along. I hope that you're all doing and well and finding time to study new subjects that keep you interested. It's great to see that you're thinking about innovation at a young age. And thanks for sending me this message! All best wishes for the holidays! -Danielle
@@pbsorigins Yes, the video is amazing but you speak way toooo fast to follow - constructive feedback I guess :)
In the words of my dad: "The typing class in high-school was pretty much attended only by women - because why would we [guys] need to know those things?" His tone was ironic because, of course, he works in front of a computer now.
Thanks for watching! Changing technology is a funny thing :)
A staggering number of publications, from fiction novels to scientific publications in the world were actually typed by the wives of the authors (or girlfriend, sister etc.), because men associated these skills with secretaries and either literally couldn't type themselves or just considered it bellow them or not worth their time. So it was their wives who turned that messy manuscript into their typewriter or digital form, often while doing proofreading and editing. Nonetheless none of these women were ever credited for their work. A professor named Bruce Holsinger even made a Twitter hashtag #ThanksForTyping gathering and sharing works typed by women who are nonetheless never credited, only by "my wife".
your dad sounds like my dad. maybe we are related?
@@MariaHellerDesigns oh my gosh this makes totally a sense and i never realized this, regarding the pieces of messy handwriting and all... oh . thank you for mentioning this dear!!
WorldParticles has
While teaching data processing (programming & systems analysis) at a technical institute in the 80s, we actively recruited women into our program because they were better at programming and far superior than the guys in systems analysis. Guy seemed to think they knew what was best and the gals tended to ask what was wanted and could explain why they might had a different solution. It is good to see things changing.
Thanks for watching and sharing! It's been great hearing so many complex perspectives from our viewers.
I'm a female Computer Science and Math double major. I go to a mostly female school, but somehow my major classes are mostly male.
I will say for the record that my love life has suffered since I mostly like women and there aren't a lot of women (and therefore even less queer women) who share my interests. This seems a rather unimportant side issue since I'm not exactly in the field for dating reasons, but it does make me rather sad that I might not be able to come home and talk intelligently with my wife about what we do at work.
I keep giggling at the idea that if I have kids, they might feel like CS is a woman's field since one or both of their moms will work in CS.
I don't know about US. But in ex-soviet country, the small most IT-advanced country (Estonia) in the world, I have mostly seen women in 90s, operating and programming computers. Now after 2000 I see men more interested in programming. Its hard to find women. But operating PC-s I see equal interest. I mean those small ones, in our pockets. With LTE and Wifi connectivity.
It's always good to think about differences across regions. Thanks for sharing!
Whoa, that was way more complex I expected! It goes to show just how interesting sociology can be.
You've just got another sub. This format --- the clear, logical, and motivated development based on questions --- is top-notch, and not just on youtube, but even most academic work fails to be this well-written.
im in my first year of uni for a cs degree and my batch is almost equally female/mal, which helps me hold on to the hope that women will be much more involved in the future of computer science
Statistically many of them will not, by sheer preference. It's just how men and women are.
Awesome episode! I was lucky enough to hear Rear Admiral Hopper speak at The Ohio State University while a student there in the 80s. I would add one EXTREMELY IMPORTANT shout-out: Limor Freid (aka Lady Ada), the founder and lead engineer at Adafruit. I believe that she is a great role model and inspiration for girls and women who have interests in STEM.
Thanks for adding to the list!! So many great women that we couldn't give shout outs to (only because our episodes are so short). Thanks for citing more names for our viewers to look up!
That is so cool!! It's getting better though! I'm in a coding bootcamp now and there are some girls in my class! Very interesting videos!!
Awesome video. As a girl coder, I appreciate you taking on this subject. :)
This is cobbled together propaganda. Please don't fall for the narrative that men conspired to kick women out of programming by way of magazine ads, this video is basally copy/pasted from propaganda articles that have been circulated for a while.
orazdow HAHHAA
@@oraz. men didn't kick out women intentionally but it happened
Interesting. I was a programmer and my daughter built her own desktop.
Great video, my husband is a pen tester and I go to company meetings and the have there programmers and as a whole I see a lot of women , which I think is so cool.
I just made a whole post on this. I’m all for helping women of color get back to pioneering in cloud computing 💪🏿☁️💻
My dad took a typing class in high school, which would be late 70s or very early 80s. He took that class instead of a second English class because he knew the teacher of the English class hated him and would probably fail him. He said he was the only guy in that typing glass, so it was a win-win for him.
everything is always about marketing isn't it
Another reason why women had an early in, in computer science was that a lot of their skills from other fields were useful early on. A lot of women tended to work jobs that required more precision like sewing, this became useful in early electronics as they had to be assembled entirely by hand. In fact also in Apollo it was women who made the memory for the computers and literally sew it by hand, they hired old seamstresses as they were the only ones who could make something that precisely and on such a large scale. Women also worked at a lot of electronics factories for this same reason and also worked as switchboard operators, this of course naturally made them more familiar with these things.
I'd like to see the other side of the coin, professions that used to be male dominated and is now seen as inherently feminine and the usual loss of status that goes along with this. As a teacher in training I wonder if the profession would be better paid or there would be more trust in individual teachers to design their own lessons (instead of often very prescriptive curriculum and testing schedules that leave little room for teachers to follow their class' interest) if the 19th century male domination of the career had continued.
Since it was not mentioned in the video I’d like to mention Margaret Hamilton who was the director of the software department at the MIT Instrumentation Laboratory for the Apollo program among many things.
You should also checkout the programs like 'Outreachy' and 'Rails Girls Summer of Code' which aims at increasing diversity in open source.
P.S. I'm an alumni of one of them and have been involved as a organizer in another one.
hahahaahahahahahahahahahahaahahahhh!!!@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
I want to enter the field of computer science. I didn’t even know that few women join until not too long ago I found out by going to a computer science mock class and saw there were only guys. The professor was a woman and pointed out that it was rare to find females interested in joining. *like* ❤️ If your a female that is interested/ inspired to join the field of computer science😆👩💻💁♀️💻🔬
Recently, I'm interested in CS. I was planning my major in biochemistry, and now I'm in between both. Still not sure which one I should study even though they are so different than each other. But, if I choose CS, I hope I can meet some female in the class instead of the all-male one.
Wow. These videos are just amazing.... more please??? Also, I fully agree with this video - I'd seen the sexist ads, but never really noticed them before; while also wondering (and asking) why there aren't more women in information technology fields. Thinking back on growing up in the 80's, there WAS a very strong push that computers were for boys, and girls did other things, like play with barbies or whatever. This is so wrong... we need to make this better.
“Why Are There Few Women In Computer Science?”
My Mom: Surprised Pikachu Face
How do they only have 200,000 subs they deserve more than that I mean I am a nerd so maybe it's just me
"If women played a significant role in early programming, then, why did we start assuming that computer programming could only be done by men"?
Who exactly said that? When you don't have an argument, just make one up, right?
The question is actually "If women played a significant role in early programming, then *WHEN* did we start assuming that computer programing could only be done by men?"
Grace Hooper is my fucking hero.
TWIOCH she is an inspiring figure for sure! Thanks for watching :)
actress hedy lamar invented wifi during the war
greatedcorn ehhh, more so that she invented the components that were then used for the basis of WiFi. Still cool though
Thanks for watching and adding!
True enough, but signal hoping... I mean come on... gps. That's awesome.
Also Bluetooth
Having worked in the Information Technology field for twenty-six years before retiring, I have worked with many female IT personnel at every level and more than 50% of my supervisors were female. If there is a bias towards men in any area of IT it's made up for in other areas. Programmers, although important in the field make up a small part of the IT industry. I am basing this not only on my own experience, but also on : www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat18.htm which provides statistics that say outside of computer systems design (which is a subset of engineering for the hardware systems) most other areas women are at about 42% of the workforce. While not a 50/50 breakdown, it's closer than the 73/27 percent breakdown you stated. As a matter of fact, only one small area of these statistics agree with your numbers. That's the aforementioned engineering/IT overlap area. Yes it is the only one that uses the word, "computer," but it's such a small portion of the information technology industry that is very misleading to use that set of numbers to represent IT as a whole. You are discounting the myriad of women who work in IT everyday.
0:50 Was she *really* the first programmer? Some historians don't think so. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Lovelace#Controversy_over_extent_of_contributions
A teacher at school insisted that her class studied computer programming.
you know it was navajo who made the first computer, right?
Is it hard for girls to find a job in computer science? I want to pursue it but my parents are worried that I won't find a job
CS is pretty much in-demand and aren't as saturated as the business and engineering fields. Go for it!
The think about programmers some get burnout. So it allows others to enter the field.
Girls have it easier to find jobs due to arbitrary diversity requirements.
just looked it up and only about 25% of computer programmers were women in 1940. So it dropping to less then that could purely be the requirements of the field changing. This video brings up some valid points but then trys to support them with nitpicked stats or just avoiding stats when it may not fit the narrative.
Nothing has stopped women in the past so many years from becoming comp sci majors and I can tell you right now marketing had nothing to do with me or any of my friends interest in joining the field. Less women do anything math oriented weather that be engineering, psychics or programming.
The few women I personally know that are getting into the field are getting into it for all the wrong reasons. It is always some idealized picture of what programming is like, but then again I think thats a pretty good chunk of programmers overall.
Save my essay. Thank you!
Good information!
Unfortunately more and more of the IT / Programming jobs are being moved to other countries to take advantage of cheap labor. Not a very encouraging market to be in currently, unless you are the "best of the best".
And you only get to be the "best of the best" with experience or you happen to develop something that takes the world by storm (which is extremely rare). It's a catch 22 for a lot of people.
Good job!
I'm a new programmer.
You forgot the link to the BBC article about the artificial banana flavor. :(
Hoping it'll be here soon...
Yea, i wanted to see it too
Sorry I forgot to add the links to the works cited! Here they are and I'll update the page :) Thanks for watching
news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/10/beaver-butt-goo-vanilla-flavoring/
www.bbc.com/future/story/20140829-the-secrets-of-fake-flavours
Women studying for an IT degree its a great field for women!
73% is veeery optimistic. If 1/4 of CS bachelors are girls(?), You know nothing about how many of them actually will work as real software developers(not QA, PM or HR). Maybe nobody.
Those women won their place with hard work not painting monuments or asking for rights that already have
Ba-bye this is for my assignment.
That is why language of computer is too hard to understand ( xavier)
Great insightful history. When men and women work together we achieve so much. The problem isn't lack of women in tech, it's the fact that they don't work well with other men. I have women in my field right now who are more interested in competing against men than working with men, like they have to prove a point.
The reason to that is probably because men treat them as inferior, sparking the desire for women to prove themselves. If there was an equitable treatment of women in the field in the first place, collaboration between genders would not be an issue.
@@maurahiggins2142 This is somewhat true you know.
Hello
Discovered you thanks to Deep Look. Good channel however try to speak slower. It is not that you are not understandable, just annoying after a while. In conclusion have a good one and keep the stuff up 💪💪
I don't think it's appropriate to compare the female "human computers" With modern programing as those people were usually computing one or two algorithms were a programmer has to invent new algorithms and methods So not just "computing data" Using a method the likely male boss taught them but ACTUALLY creating the methods by which the data is computed in their program. I think this stems at the root of the issue men are more "logical" than women while women are more "emotional" than men and so it's reasonable the more logical sex would be better at Computer science a logic based sector.
This is a very stupid answer. Your last sentence is blasphemy.
wow
.-.
I retired from IT 20years ago. Women were mostly in the QA and management areas.
You had me up until you got to 1984. From then on what you are saying is not exactly true. First and foremost, it was video game consoles that were marketed towards children, not just specifically boys. And while there were many different computers around at the time (that could also play video games) all that changed with the advent of the IBM Personal Computer (model 5150) a.k.a the IBM PC in 1981. It was a no-nonsense expensive machine (for its time) geared toward professionals. NOT, something you would buy for a little boy. Even though it also play video games. It created a new standard and killed off the market for other computers using other computer architectures. From then on, everyone slowly started making IBM PC compatible computers based on that architecture. It created an industry standard. And though things have become more advanced since then, that basic standard it created still exists in computers to this day. It's the reason you can put Windows OS on PCs from different manufacturers and use the same software on all of them. Also, families who had PCs in the 80s usually had one and would keep it in a centralized location in their homes. Usually the living room, dining room, or kitchen. So anyone who was allowed to use it had easy access to it. Which of course included any female member of the household.
And if you are perceived as a woman in STEM, you will likely be subject to a lot of harassment and sexism. I am a trans man and I was still 'female presenting' when I first started my chemistry degree, and even though I did all the work and excelled in tests and lab work, TAs and professors would overlook it and/or flat out give the credit to male students.
Top 5 Famous Women in Tech: ruclips.net/user/shortsq6E5rTDNGn4
Whoever has power reserve the best job for himself. It's all about staying aware of the competition. The workplace for some it's war and they will do everything to win.
Sadly, many go to work with the romantic idea of collaboration and simply put the best effort.
For the same reason why there are so few men studying "arts" and "nursing" . SEXES ARE DIFFERENT
They arent.
@@ChickenManiac yes they are. that is beyond obvious
@@GospodinJean not enough differences so account for a 30 - 40 percent difference in computer science
@@ChickenManiac
Women just copy what they learned from men and men discover and invent new things . Deal with it men are much more smarter and better in everything except maybe in giving birth
Coz they aren't well paid 🤣🤣🤣
Inspiring women :)
🔴 That's nothing, Joke Biden's special women's Olympic team won't have women!!!
oh my god. thank you for this. all these obstacles actually happened... my mom worked on one of the huge room computers and i've met this gender discrimination when i naively went to ask for a job in a male dominated company, they basically took my test and laughed at it... shit, i have no idea it - a history of my own life - is again ALL SHAPED UP BY THE WINNERS, again. cause winners are who writes it. THANK YOU! :-o *hugely shocked clicking 8979862likes*
I wonder what the mortality rate is for people who work in computer science...
The amount of MRAs in the coments Is not surprising but still disgusting.
"Men lack empathy" - Reshma Saujani. There's another quote from that bigot.
You are a bigot I think. And please provide me the link where she said this.
PopoOficial
yes this is better ,.,.,.,.,.,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.
Let me save you some time: women aren't interested in computer science as much.
What? Women have a long and important history in computing? How is this possible with the racisims and the hierarchy? Unless, it is truly about meritocracy and these ladies earned it. Right?
All the information is interesting but the presenter talks soooo fast that it makes it difficult to follow .....
Ok karen, there's a feature in youtube that allows you to slow down the video. Click the gear icon next to the fullscreen button, then change the playback speed. I personally think the speaker talks too slow, requiring me to speed up the video. That just goes to show that there is no proper speed that a commentator needs to speak at...
This field is for men not for women understand🙄
What if women that are not studying computer science don't do it just because they don't like it? Crazy, right?
Just like women didn't attend to universities until the XVIII century because they weren't interested in science? Oh wait, that's the excuse they gave to not let women in!
Stupid incel.
@@kiriki4558 First: there is no reason to be offensive. You calling someone you don't know "incel" on the internet clearly qualifies you more than me. Think about it.
Second: It's been a while since women can access any university curriculum they want. Your argument is a non sequitur. Mine instead still remains an hypothesis that explains reality with a very few background assumptions. Think about it.
They don't like it or they are subconsciously discouraged by the culture and stereotypes. No offense though.
A better question would be "Why are there so many women with such a sense of entitlement that believe they should get a job just because of their gender?"
This actual propaganda cobbled together to look like real scholarship. I'm surprised PBS is pushing this, what she's saying towards the middle of the video is full of selectively picked motivated reasoning. It's actually dishonest.
I work for a reputable software company ... as a manger there is no intentional bias against female programmers. we tried or best to encourage them. fHowever we found young men programmers were a ggressive in their willingness to study and adapt ... more methodical ... and were quite smart compaid to the women ... I don't think this narrative holds w ater in today's world
Soooooo no stretches of reality here
I wish she would’ve been more race specific when noting men.
2:36 Compared to programming building hardware *is* the real skill-oriented job. It's much more demanding area, to this day.
3:15 "when did we start assuming that computer programming can only be done by men?" -- Who started assuming this? Who is saying that, straw-man?
I find most of this video quite biased, and kind of sexist. I don't see why women specifically should be encouraged to work in IT/CS? Why not encourage people in general? Jobs should be based on merit, not genitals.
What rock have you been living under, that you didn't know about that stereotype? As for encouraging women more, 73% of the field are men, so they are clearly already already getting the encouragement. If you wanted to make sure everyone had a bicycle, and more women already had them, you should buy more male fitted bicycles, even though that means spending more on men.
But why should the ratio be 50/50 in the first place? What is the reason for it? Should every profession have this ratio? I don't think so.. And I see these "equalization" attempts only in areas where there is lot of money and power. Undemocratic parliament quotas, CEO quotas, affirmative action for STEM jobs, ... It's not about justice, or merit, it's a power grab, and society won't benefit from it. Result will be big authoritarian government, and unproductive companies. (See any communist country.)
50/50 is what you'd expect if nothing was up. The idea is that there are people who go into these fields in only there wasn't something inhibiting it. I mean look at people like Noether Emmy, we almost didn't get her. She could have been just as talented, but been just a bit less stubborn.
The belief is some echo of these old biases are still there. If you give someone an explicitly irrelevant number, and ask them to estimate something that number will still effect the process. Not going into a field, because you don't see people like you in it, or it feels unfeminine is less on it's face irrational than that.
Really? SHOULD we expect 50/50 ratio? Why?
I don't agree, and I don't even think it would be beneficial to the people involved or to the society as a whole. Also there is some anecdotal evidence against this expectation. A while ago there were bunch of articles about Sweden which is quite civilized, liberal, and even pushes gender equality. People are mostly able to chose their profession without inhibitions but they unexpectedly gravitate towards "traditional roles" even more. theculturetrip.com/europe/sweden/articles/swedish-teens-choose-careers-based-on-gender-roles-according-to-science/
And what is up with the so called "dirty jobs"? Like 99% of dirty jobs are done by men. These are usually physically demanding tasks without which civilization would literally grind to a halt. Why isn't there equal distribution there?
But I agree that there still might be actual inhibitions which discourage people with talent from going to a particular field. And I agree that ladies have it worse in this regard. However this definitely won't be fixed by blindly pushing 50/50 ratios...
pisay go brrr
girls are not into that
just go on any nerdy video video on youtube & its like 90% dudes arguing with each other
Because computer programming in the past was a glorified punch hole that anybody can do, so they reserved such job to women while the men did all the heavy lifting, like inventing newer technology. It just so happened that computers were becoming advanced that women were ousted from their jobs and got replaced by competent men who have been studying years in computer science (back then it was a novel study). Who could ever thought that the complexity of such technology could filter out incompetencies.
Need more data on the males starategizing against women, just an ad campaign and masculine traits in programmers needed are just opinions sandwhiched within facts, a very negative claim at that, concur with the other claims though, coding needs to be started young, but antimale claims do not have any base in modern day society, checked out your sources as well. Although some cultural precedence can be viable but the isolated incidents is not enough for such a broad and general anti male claim. But some interesting infos, thanks for that.
What have I learned by watching these formulaic women advocacy videos? That women are goddesses who should never have to work but if they do then logically they should all work in STEM. I don't care what they really want to do, women should only want to work in STEM. So how do we brainwash women into wanting to do this? Let's create some propaganda videos telling women that men have conspired to keep them out of STEM and then fill it with women who worked in STEM, were really successful, and even achieved greatness. (Yeah, that makes sense.) Apparently women are smart enough to work in STEM, but not smart enough to know that. I would like to write more but I have attend a meeting of my secret cabal to oppress women. Busy, busy...
Why would you come here for something you clearly didn't enjoy just to let everyone know that you're a sarcastic spoil-sport? Some of us are actually interested in learning things, so go away and leave us alone. If you've got opinions go write them down someplace people will care to read them.
Or you need to STFU and listen to him. Perhaps they need to do an episode on the "get girls into STEM" phenomenon, which started because it was the *only* area of education where girls did not already have a substantial advantage in the 1980s.
willythemailboy2 Some of us are actually interested in learning things, so go away and leave us alone. If you've got opinions go write them down someplace people will care to read them.
willythemailboy2 William, please stop logging into your other RUclips account to make it look like someone agrees with your babbling. You'd probably be much happier if you spent less time fingerblasting your keyboard, enraged at a non-existent enemy.
Actually, there have been a large slew of those videos, but this video is standing on facts that I myself have researched heavily for a few years. If you want to be a bit more on point, follow the money. A lot of departments get their funding and tax breaks this way. Ever heard the term "diversity hire?". Take a look at that and make a more informed opinion of the matter.
Because it has nothing to do with their emotions