Great to see Jonas and Rog have become honorable men of integrity and compassion. It takes a heart of gold to achieve that... something that Sepp has always had.
@@ChristianW1975 No, he SAID he wants Sepp to win. Because people never lie, right? Even if best intentions and good reasons, it still could be a lie inside his mind. We can never know. Wanting to win another GT is not a crime. But he has to maintain good atmosphere in the team and with Sepp personally, which is more important strategically than taking a GT right now. Also community wanted Sepp to win, and team management knew it will be good for their public image
I just knew Vingegaard would hold on to his word of keeping Kuss in red after all. GC Kuss ain’t no longer a meme, I’m so so happy for the Eagle of Durango!!
Pretty hard to work your ass off all these years, get a win and the doubters think you're just some schmuck who rode up on an e-bike, following his boys only to be "gifted". Sure it wasn't a dominating win, yes his team helped him. He still had to ride the freaking race, and beat all other teams. Jeez, give the guy some credit. I guess we could consider Hinault and Wiggins as meme's because they were gifted tours.
There is nothing wrong with getting 2nd or 3rd in the Vuelta. But Kuss will always be remembered for being gifted a Grand Tour by his team mate. What an incredibly generous gift from Jonas !
Just popping in to say I raced my first ever triathlon this past weekend and when I was letting my mind wander during the bike leg, I kept saying "Rrrrrrremco Eeeeeeevenpooeell" in my head / out loud. so thank you for that :)
In retrospect, TJV didn't expect Jonas to take so much time on stage 16 after his attack. That was down to UAE being dumb, which created this weird race dynamics. I guess in week 3 they wanted to get as many wins as possible for Jonas & Roglic and GC for Kuss. But the time gaps created awkward mess
I almost don't think anything has gone according to Jumbo's plan this Vuelta. I highly doubt they planned on Kuss getting in a break and taking so much time on GC. Probably also expected him to bomb on the TT. And then didn't expect Jonas to take a minute on a 5km climb with 4 UAE riders chasing him. Probably also didn't expect the PR nightmare when Roglic won yesterday. Overall a decent result for them though even though nothing went as expected.
I think the goal was to put more time between third and fourth places. The strategy was to use all hands to attack/weaken the GC group. If an attacker gets a gap, they should go as far as they can, while the others sit on until they are ready to attack again. What happened was -- well, YOU chase down Jonas when he's feeling good! The important result was pushing the gap between Roglic and Ayuso to nearly three minutes, allowing Jumbo to ride strictly defensively.😊😊😊
@@GDF07 > didn't expect Jonas to take a minute on a 5km climb with 4 UAE riders chasing him This I can see them actually expect. JV is a KING on any ascent over 10% ... this is where he is truely unbeatable. Which is why even record-time Angliru was a cakewalk for him, he basically just relaxed in Roglics wheel.
Van Aert gave the win to Laporte, now they give Kuss the chance to win the Vuelta. At TJV they know that working together is more rewarding than doing everything for 1 leader. The best team I have ever seen work so well together, not easy, in the end they are all riders who dream of winning.
This was a call of social media, no doubts about that after Roglic words. The Directors would have done nothing if they have not felt all the pressure coming after those 2 stages. I can believe Jonas would not take the win from Kuss by himself, but if it was not yesterday Roglic would have attacked today 200%. Jumbo is just so much better than everyone else that they can do these unbelievable mistakes and still smoke everyone in the race.
@@brendanward9877 I think Roglic is the one that (finally) shot Jonas down. On the previous stage Jonas raced against Kuss and Roglic. And that move could have cost the entire team by the time the last mountain stage is complete. Especially of continually repeated.
@@veganpotterthevegan I think it’s a tricky situation for the team and the riders. I would like to see Sepp have a win! Saying that as a Dane! I can also see the desire and dilemma for all involved. We the punters here are quick to judge. We think we know! I would like to see both Rog and JV ride in support of, and that Sepp makes the most of that opportunity!
@2niteL8R not a total punter. I'm an expro and couldn't imagine pulling the nonsense they pulled yesterday. And it's not like plenty of pro tour riders haven't stated how bothered they are by what happened. Sepp had gladly stopped on the road multiple times in his career to wait for Jonas and Roglic when he could have had a career defining win instead.
People are literally super simpleminded and senseless to Jumbos tactics... They are 1, 2 and 3 in GC! What more can you ask? Nevertheless, one day Vingegaard is called an arrogant ***hole and the other day he is treated like an angel. If people were a little more patient they would not blow the last few days of racing up to something that it is not. They are 1,2 3 in GC, and 1,2,3 in TWO stages, which is litterly insane. Don't treat them as politicians. Jumbo has done something historical in this Vuelta, lets appreciate that, instead of discussing wired politics within the team.
I think this stage made the TJV inside feuds pretty clear. Roglic wants his 4th vuelta win and because he's leaving TJV at the end of the season anyway he wouldn't worry about ruining any team dynamics. Jonas has a competitive rivalry with roglic, so he felt like he should, and when he could he did, attack roglic. But Jonas isn't gonna attack Sepp, we saw today how he slow down to get some distance between him and his teammate in GC. Jonas attacked to get 2nd in GC, and yesterday roglic attacked Kuss so he attacked Roglic himself. If roglic doens't attack Kuss now, Jonas has no reason to attack either
He is the best climber right now. There's hardly anyone to compete with him on long high climbs. Had a feeling he was holding back even on stages he won. At Angliru too, he could have smoked Primoz but chose not to take the red jersey away from Kuss.
Now Jonas should demand the excuses from every cycling fan who called him a snake yesterday, apparently not recalling the classy gestures he had already shown in last year's TdF with Pogacar and WVA.
Given that it’s a team sport with humans that have real emotions, it’s pleasing to see a team act nicely in a team sport when they’re able to. Well done JV & Sepp Kuss.
Looks like Jumbo Visma got the message. Social Media blew up last night with criticism about dropping Sepp on Stage 17. Chris Horner (2013 Vuelta GC winner) tore them a new one. Thank goodness Jumbo put in a solid team effort today on Stage 18 and protected Sepp and the Red Jersey. Kudos to Jonas & Primoz! Great ride Sepp! Chris Horner, Butterfly Effect: ruclips.net/video/FjmvsJkD9To/видео.html
And how about pulling up stumps? Quite obviously Jonas has been the best rider in the Vuelta (looked totally unbothered by roglic’s pace yesterday) and it’s a slap in the face of the race and the other competitors. I get the team aspect but Jumbo should’ve done a better job of keeping this from turning into what it has.
and todays knucklehead award goes toooo.......... the american social shitstorm and Chris Horner himself. Bravo America you won the Vuelta for GC Kuss@@JP41257
No No a gift for Jumbo! It's very important to remember that cycling is a TEAM sport so Kuss didn't win anything. Jumbo did 🙄 Jumbo also won TDF and the Giro. Don't even know why Roglic and Vingegaard worked so hard....
TJV is looking for a new sponsor. GC Kuss winning a grand tour as American + the transfer of one of the biggest talents of the usa (Jorgenson) - I expect a cycling boom in the usa and some BIG sponsoring offers flying into the office of TJV for 2024.
oh yeah for sure, also don't forget the Netflix effect. I know the TdF series is half in French, but it's being promoted to the same people who watched and loved Drive to Survive, and that must have played a large part in the recent growth of F1 in America.
I wonder, when Roglic wins and is still 1 minute behind, it is wrong and everyone are angry. But when Vingegard wins, it is ok? Talking about double standards.
Tripple, woke standards to let the little man win was not part of the original script by Jumbo, but trapped two stronger riders due to social media pressure along the way.
Thanks Pat, that new last climb (done twice) is a great addition to the canon of La Vuelta climbs. What a spectacular view from the top for the presentations.
@@ste9240 I agree that it certainly looked like he could have rode away from Primoz yesterday. None of us are in the team bus, so who knows what the real story is or what Jonas was thinking.
True. He just sat up at angliru and today too..getting so much hate for nothing. He always managed the gap, if he wanted he would have smoked Primoz and Kuss.
Think the Lantern guys gets a little carried away here by Kuss mania 😂 Vingegaard obviously didn't tell Kuss to slow down because he himself was afraid of getting dropped but because he was concerned about Kuss burning unnecessary steam. Very clear that Jonas was captain in control, and helped Sepp at various critical parts of the race. He even talked calmly in the radio at the same time as he was closing gaps. Totally superior. And just to demonstrate it further, he on purpose dropped a few seconds the last 50m just in case he gets some bonus seconds the next stages to avoid getting into another shit storm 😊
I agree totally, it seemed abit dull holding back Pr and Jv but the team has decided due to pressure from fans and media. Otherwise RE wouldn't have won so easily today.
Dropping on purpose seems very hypothetical and not really like Vingegaard. Also Vingegaard was pacing for a long time which is really tiring so he might have been feeling it when Sepp upped the pace. Plus he was at the very back of the group and not really in a wheel.
@@vinnieboy3963 So you think that Landa and Mas (or who it was up front) whom Vingegaard has toyed with for the last two weeks suddenly today, of ALL days, were superior to Jonas? No I can't PROVE it, but it's damn unlikely considering that the pace up the last climb was not super intense or super long 😏 Jonas knows he will end second so why would he sprint like crazy the last 50m when he could see that Kuss was alright? Come on, it's obvious unless you're a die hard Kuss fan....
@@clauso72 He closed gaps, paced and was in a suboptimal position as you have less drag towards the front. Also your legs aren't the same every day and he went hard yesterday, so he could definitely get dropped, as a domestique. That doesnt mean that Landa and Mas (and Ayuso who is quite strong) are superior though.
Sad to see the negative publicity Jumbo got from actually racing. English commentators on discovery+ talked about it all day, with a very negative attitude towards competing Kuss said it himself: He wants to win if he is good enough. Not sure if it is just for making drama, when the GC race is stale, or if people actually think it is wrong to increase time gaps to competitors and secure stage wins. I really don't care who wins, I like all of them. But I do want to watch the best cyclists trying their hardest on the toughest stages.
Sad to see the brain rot from people forgetting this is a team sport that no one wins by themselves; yes, even those who now have to pull for someone else for a change. Or maybe Jonas can race the TDF next year unaffiliated and we'll see how well he does.
The amount of hate Jonas got was totally unnecessary... He truely is a teamplayer and show great sportsmanship to his teammates and competitors. I hope the haters feel a little embarrassed now.. Congrats to Kuss, one hell of rider.
I think true cycling fans are not haters of Jonas, they all admire him for his talents. It’s the American bandwagon jumping on board the patriotic train that is causing all the fuss. It’s been all over the USA news that an American was leading the Vuelta and they all suddenly jump in and whinge to try and get their way. Blame it all on the strongest rider who is considerably stronger than their boy.
@@Spruikermania You're all absurdly wrong. You think critical commentary is only about allegiance to a cult or nation or something? Look up Freudian projection. Also look up false choice and straw man fallacies.
@@indonesiaamerica7050 They will finish 1,2,3 regardless so FFS let the strongest rider win. Kuss as a domesticate is paid very well, finishing 2nd or 3rd would be a great achievement knowing he earnt it. Kuss even said after Stage 16 that he didn’t want any favours. Now he will be remembered for receiving the most generous gift we have seen in Grand Tours this century. Jonas handing Kuss the Vuelta !!
@@dannyjensen2123 dude is their team's best gc guy and is 26 years old he got at least 5-7 more years to win the vuelta, sepp is 29 and a domestique. it is sepp who may never be in the position to win vuelta or any gt ever again.
@@austienbryandemesa5841 Jonas will hopefully leave this insane shitshow of a team as soon as possible. He cannot know if he will have the opportunity to win the Vuelta ever again. And he has just been forced to hand it over to a mediocre domestique who got lucky on a breakaway. This is scandalous and disrespect to the vuelta, Jonas and every real cycling fan.
Yesterday people were saying kuss will find another team. I think it was more likely to be roglic. I believe roglic wanted the win more. Jonas was like not on my watch. Either its going to be kuss or myself.
They received so much flak after Stage 17 that they realised attacking/defeating Kuss would be a pr disaster and Kuss would up sticks. I am glad order has been restored. Kuss deserves this after all he has done for them. I think Roglic remains the fly in the ointment, though.
@@tonyg3091 He's said he like for Kuss to win ever since he first got the red jersey. Any excuse to hate on him just because you know he is the best GT rider in the world.
Vingegaard did a great Job yesterday and today...it's Roglic that seems to have a problem with Kuss winning this Vuelta....not so strange though.....he has been working towards this for months....conclusion is that Jumbo Visma was so dominant that it's almost ridiculous!!!!
I agree. Jonas took the stage the day before, fine. Yesterday Primos went while Sepp struggled and Jonas I think said sod it, I'm not handing the Vuelta to Primos
you are delusional. First you forgot team TT where jonas got dropped… Then he attacked 2 times when roglic stayed with kuss and when roglic attacked once sudenly he is the bad guy. I just wanted to see roglic free and we couldnt see that plus kuss got free ride where he made 4 minutes like jonas where he got 1 min. Noone was pulling….
@@781mmMy guy, Jonas had a mechanical during the TTT. Of course you wait there, he is the best GC Rider in the world right know. But what Roglic did yesterday was unnecessary. He could’ve waited for everybody and he would still outsprint them and on Tourmalet he tried to get a gap and failed, he could only gain time in the sprint to the line. Of course this isn’t bad per se, but there is no bad and good here, fact is that Jonas pulled for Sepp today and Roglic didn’t, Although Jonas is ahead of him.
@@moritzknoll1737 so when jonas was behind roglic he could attack red yersey but when roglic is 2minutes behind he cant??? You forgot that they let jonas 2 times to get away and bring back 1.40m???? The man was tired didnt you see that he was let to come back in the game?? Even on TT we saw where he was with his shape.
Kuss will always be remembered for being gifted a Grand Tour. Jonas with the most incredible gift in cycling that we have seen this century. Lets hope the American fans are happy
@@savagepro9060just like domestiques “gifting” GTs to GC riders. It’s hilarious and an absolute joke to think anybody wins a tour by themselves. Wout and Kuss were pulling like crazy all TdF.
Complimenti ai due ragazzi della Jumbo. In questo modo sono davvero entrati tutti e tre nella storia di questo sport. Una vittoria, quella di Kuss, che vale molto più di una doppietta Giro-Vuelta o Tour-Vuelta❤
I blame Remco for all the negative press Jumbo is getting. If he didn't blow up and was competing for a podium spot on GC, Jumbo probably doesn't end up having to take turns winning stages and actually has to to race.
Would have been a really interesting dilemma if Remco had been gaining on GC and TJV had a choice between using Jonas and Primos to try to keep Sepp in red and risk that they would lose the win completely or else they could accept that Sepp couldn't hold on, not defend Sepp in red and instead have Sepp work to get Jonas or Remco into a good spot to take the jersey for the team. Without the rest of the field putting pressure on them you have the three TJV "squabbling" among themselves. Maybe it's wishful thinking that they always understood you don't take the leader's jersey from your own teammate, but I hope they all had that understanding. @@GDF07
@@GDF07 Hey, good for Remco like that so that Sepp will be secured for Vuelta 2023. If Remco maintains as a threat to TJV surely Jonas & Primos would compete with him toe-to-toe & hard for Sepp to hold his Red Jersey!
Not a perfect analogy, but the TJV/Kuss situation seems similar to a scenario that occurs in baseball from time to time: Your starting pitcher holds the opposition hitless for the first 8 innings but he is beginning to tire. If the manager pulls the starter sends the ace reliever out to start the ninth, every single fan would be irate even if they knew that the reliever would have a better chance of finishing the game with a win. There is no manager that would pull the starter because they would say that the starting pitcher earned the right to try to finish the no hitter. And the fans would demand it because they want to witness to a no hitter. Sports are filled with norms that place a higher value on emotion, loyalty, and honor than just "pure competition".
So many people chastized both Primoz and Jonas... We are not in the TJV team buses(2 echelons racing 2 seperate tours at the same time) Wout helping Laporte/Jonas&Primoz helping Sepp. Calm down people. TJV is undisputed the most well rounded team in this era of cycling. If you think about it, they themselves capture so many accolades as well as emotions. Stamping themselves into the history books. Postal, Skyy, Jumbo and all the others before them and to the ones to come after. Cycling is incredible. Cheers guys
All I can say is, you can never see this in any other sport. Imagine telling Kobe Bryant at his peak to give the MVP title to a more popular teammate. Heck, you can’t even expect this from another cycling superstar. Would Pogacar be satisfied being 2nd to let’s say Soler? On a grand tour? I don’t think so. People don’t give enough credit to Roglic and Vingegaard being able to let go of their personal ambitions like this.
Your hypothetical took a wrong turn when you used Soler as an example, That guy is a squirrely, unreliable teammate who is famous for bailing on his team's plan. He's basically the opposite of Sepp.
@@charliedillon1400 but Soler was number 2 in GC not too long ago, also rode the time trial of his life just like Kuss, AND he pulled Pogacar on Mont Blanc and saved his podium in TdF. By that logic, he DESERVES to be given the red jersey right? Because that seems to be the case with Kuss. Suddenly, the same logic does not apply because it’s not Sepp Kuss. 🤷♀️
@@lalala-vh4pi Spot on mate. Or imagine Verstappen was told not to overtake Perez just because he was in the lead in lap 4 out of 50 laps. Shame it has come down to this, that the winner is picked on social media.
The NBA MVP is an individual award so your Kobe Bryant example doesn't work. Cycling and basketball are team sports, Jonas/Primoz doesn't win without Sepp and Kobe doesn't win without Shaq, Gasol, etc. People with your mindset do not understand the concept of a team sport at all.
@@BoxCarBoy12 it’s exactly as you say, they are both team sports and are very similar. Kobe have had so many important helpers but I don’t see a world where he would give up being MVP to one of his precious helpers who helped the team win. Being a GT champion is an individual award as well. Being 2nd place is not the same.
What Remco is doing, winning from the break is confirmation of my theory that if Pogacar lost loads of time day 1 of the TDF each year, he could probably set the record for most tour wins by the end of his career. Obviously it would be more complicated than that but it's fun to think about. For someone of Pogi's stature, I wonder what would be more meaningful to his legacy, one or two more gc victories at the tour or setting the stage win record.
Bc he is „only“ the Time Trial World Champ, he was wearing the rainbow shirt in the time trial. But Van der Poel is the road world champion, he is riding in rainbow bibs and jersey.
Yesterday was giving the GC in the tour riders the chance to say they could win. Today was giving Sepp Kuss the win. Insane he was a super domestique through 2 tours and made it this far and will get the Red.
This is a remarkable team effort and great sportmanship by Jonas Vingegaard. He is truely a great human being. And shurely something we'll never see Tadej Pogacar do for a teammate.
Really? You mean like when he told Yates to keep going and fight for his podium position when Pog cracked in the TDF? Pog is the best teammate one could ask for!
It's not really a gift or giving away I think. It's just brilliant team tactics, looking forward to the future cooperation of these guys, they're common history and how they want the team to be remembered. Best possible outcome for the team and the fans. Great work!
Question: was sending Kuss in the break on whatever stage it was (3?) planned to get him into the jersey? Does Kuss win he if isn't sort of gifted the ~3 minutes (not a perceived GC threat by other teams, so not chased like if Roglic or Jonas were trying to get in the break) from winning that stage in the break?
No. If Kuss had not been in the break, there is no chance that he wins the Vuelta. But he would still have been 3rd on the podium behind Vingegaard and Roglic and that's impressive in itself.
I think of the two,Jonas is the more willing to ride for Kuss Primoz not so much because he knows his time is passing he wants more GT wins now.And I think he could win this Vuelta if he was allowed,That said Kuss has been a great domestique for the team and a personable guy,But a gifted win is worthless.What a tough game pro cycling is
You should refrain from stating what they are saying in their com's with such centainty, when it turns out you are wrong most of the time ;) (Sepp saying "wait up" and Vingegaard saying "wait up" when they are saying "go, guys") Otherwise big fan!
It's wild to me to think that not attacking your teammate, in the leader's jersey by roughly 1:30, is being considered a gift. I have no doubt that if Kuss weren't involved and Roglic had that lead over Jonas going into the last week, that would be it. Everyone rides for Roglic.
It'a been disgusting these last couple of days seeing the media, pundits and "fans" pressuring the team and the riders to stand down so they can see their preferred rider win. Everything has to fit their narrative or out come the pitchforks. This is not how competitive sport should be run. It should be the best man wins. When the best team already wins, it should be the best rider in that team that wins. Because of what happened the last few days, the vuelta is tarnished, and we will never know who is the real winner. A gifted win in a grand tour! I can't imagine the humiliation for the winner and for the ones who had to stand down. Now and forever Sepp Kuss will be known as the winner of a grand tour that had his win gifted to him. It's crazy that a bunch of talking heads and keyboard warriors demand a result they wanted and getting it too. I've never seen something so ridiculous. Ugh.
Maybe its the woke movement in cycling now. Very boring, Imagine 2 gt winners holding back because of the media and entitled fans! It dulls the vuelta soo much! But anyway the sponsors have to make money I guess.
so you know what JV said on the team radio ? and that was for SK to slow down, because he did the hard work ??? who are you , ? do you at all understand cycling or just another us trumper @@famaskim2310
So finally it is up to social media to elect the winner of a Grand Tour. Like this is some Disney movie, and the good guy always wins, Really? It is the death of cycling. It should have been the strongest guy, that is why I watch cycling races. It is a sport - a competition. Not a bloody award show for being the nicest guy in the peloton, but hey the can make a jersey for that too. Kuss will win it honestly. I dont like TJV holding back neither Roglic nor Vingegård, just to please people who doesnt like real cycling. Too sad. Cycling just died as a sport. RIP
Is there a chance for Kuss after he works on his time trial bike to be a another top gc contender next season... Nice topic to be discussed and analysis
did he not try earlier on? and still ended outside top 15? As profesional as Jumbo is, I think that the numbers they have on the riders, no one comes close to Jonas. Jonas is kinda freak of nature, his lungs and heart are much larger as I remember.
How I saw the Vulelta. Kuss getting into red was an accident. Jumbo Visma (TJV) told him to get in the break (stage 6) with Remco leading they would chase and bring Vingegaard (JV) and Roglic with them. Kuss ended up with significant time. TJV assumed with break, time bonuses, time trial, stage 13 and ultimately stage 17 Kuss would loose time and be out of red and that one of their leaders would come to the fore. JV takes off 7 km from finish of stage 13 and Kuss and Rogglic only start chasing with 1km to put time into their competitors. Roglic at 1:37 JV at 1:44. Kuss does a better time trial than expected JV a little worse. Now we come to the critical stage-that was 16. TJV had Roglic taking the stage with an ending sprint. JV had other ideas, took off at 5km to go; Kuss and Roglic don’t chase down their own teammate but mark the other riders. JV takes 1:10. This takes Roglic out of the picture at 1:37 with only Kuss at 30 sec ahead of JV. Onto stage 17 Kuss does better than expected but cracks with 2 km remaining. Typically this means a couple minutes will be lost but he hitches on to Landa and only looses 22 sec. A surprise to TJV. JV at 8 sec Roglic at 1:04. Now there is consternation among retired riders, commentators, the public, etc. saying they have never seen a situation where two teammates tried to put their leader into difficulty 2 stages in a row. But I only see one problem and that is Vingegaard. Roglic is out of the picture. TJV feels the heat and tells Roglic and JV (stage 18) to lay off the attacks unless Kuss cracks. Two stages to go. Is the drama over?
Vingegaard could have won the Vuelta today without breaking a sweat (8 sec)... but he decided to loose time. Time of drama is over. Today Roglic refused to lead Kuss while being 1+ min behind. What a guy, while Vingegaard dropped second intentionally in the end. If Visma got 1 problem after this, its Roglic.
Little disappointing seeing kuss just being given the vuelta. Hes not the team captain for a reason, and you get the impression that both vingegaard and roglic could win easily if they wanted to.
In the first week or 2, sure. But attacking your teammate this late when your team has the whole podium locked down is selfish. It's a team sport, and they owe Sepp many a grand tour victory. Roglic definitely tried to take the GC yesterday and he wasn't strong enough to take if from Sepp. You can't be a diva for 2 weeks then sprint 2k up a hill because you are a 'punchy' rider and take a victory from your teammate who didn't ask to be in this postion, but here we are...If Primoz wants to be GC, then ride the whole race and defend. Having an overly talented and lopsided team and doing the minimal effort dulls the sport. I think Primoz needs a new team where he can be the focus.
Honestly, there are so many arguments over how it "should have gone". People forget reality just doesn't care what we want. This Vuelta was determined because of 3 things: Kuss gaining red and a few minutes to the other GC contenders when it wasn't expected. Evenepoel loosing almost 30 minutes during stage 13. Jonas gaining 1 minute on Kuss in 5 km, because none of the other GC contenders wanting to try to pull back a Vingegaard in good condition. The most important part of those 3, is Evenepoel loosing 30 minutes. Had that not happened, Kuss would never be allowed to go for GC, nor the win. Does it suck for Primoz to loose his chance for winning the Vuelta, because of PR and Team Politics? Yes. But it's what happened.
You may be right, but please learn the difference in meaning between "lose" and "loose.". You spelled it wrong 3 times in a row. One loses time, one looses (sets loose) cattle.
im new to this sport, can anyone tell me my why jonas can't try to win a double now that they are so close to each other on time? i get it's a very unique position to be in when you are 1, 2 ,3 but when they are so close why can't they fight for it rather than gift it to someone?
There are a lot of unwritten rules about whether it's the right thing to do. But at the end of the day, it's mostly because Jonas doesn't want to take the red jersey away from his loyal teammate. It's as simple as that really.
As a Colorado native, I want so badly in my heart for Sepp to win La Vuelta. On the other hand though, I agree with the people who are saying it should go to the strongest rider, which is clearly either Jonas or Primoz. The comments on the last three videos have been a roller coaster lol. Edit: Sepp apologizing to Jonas after gapping him to the line 😭 dudes got a heart of gold!
I think Roglic is pretty annoyed right now. First he has to let go of the tour JV wins and the next year he wins the giro but JV gets another tour and then they put JV on the GT he was also set to win. That Kuss can also win just means he is not really needed anymore which will hurt his contract as he is not even the clear number 2 in the team
in last TDF 2023 jonas won bcouz he fought againt UAE and no one there when it matters most. jonas has to fight every min to defend against tadej..when tadej had his team..
Wheres all the Jonas and Primoz haters now? All in all they’ve won 2 extra stages for the team, expanded the time down to 4th, secured top 3 all whilst keeping Sepp in red. Quite unwarranted and ridiculous amount of hate these to have gotten the last couple of days. Jonas even stated multiple times he wants Sepp to win. Keyboard warriors and couch experts will always be the same I guess.
For those of you who bet big money on either roglic or jonas winning the vuelta. Im sorry for you. Lets hope this doesnt damage the sport with sponsors and bettingsites not wanting any of it.
Vingegaard is a super domestique! With such a form he has potential to win a tour
If he ever won a tour I would be very surprised
Well that's a pretty bold claim
Nah, to weak mentally
Kuss iz a strong domestique 3GT
Na, being leader would be too much pressure. I can’t imagine him as a GT winner
Vingegaard won more by doing this than winning the race. It was a complete class move.
Great to see Jonas and Rog have become honorable men of integrity and compassion. It takes a heart of gold to achieve that... something that Sepp has always had.
Totally agree. Big JV fan but think the ego here is Roglic
@@TimS-i4v Jonas looks depressed on interview too. Probably wanted (and was capable) to take 2 tours a year
@@PhilosophicalSockno, he wanted Sepp to win
@@ChristianW1975 No, he SAID he wants Sepp to win. Because people never lie, right? Even if best intentions and good reasons, it still could be a lie inside his mind. We can never know. Wanting to win another GT is not a crime.
But he has to maintain good atmosphere in the team and with Sepp personally, which is more important strategically than taking a GT right now. Also community wanted Sepp to win, and team management knew it will be good for their public image
I just knew Vingegaard would hold on to his word of keeping Kuss in red after all. GC Kuss ain’t no longer a meme, I’m so so happy for the Eagle of Durango!!
He's a meme.
He is a meme and will always be remebered as the guy that won a grand tour because he was gifted it.
@@rojkar1300unlike legends like yourself who have won loads of GTs on your own merit. Clown.
Pretty hard to work your ass off all these years, get a win and the doubters think you're just some schmuck who rode up on an e-bike, following his boys only to be "gifted". Sure it wasn't a dominating win, yes his team helped him. He still had to ride the freaking race, and beat all other teams. Jeez, give the guy some credit. I guess we could consider Hinault and Wiggins as meme's because they were gifted tours.
There is nothing wrong with getting 2nd or 3rd in the Vuelta. But Kuss will always be remembered for being gifted a Grand Tour by his team mate. What an incredibly generous gift from Jonas !
Just popping in to say I raced my first ever triathlon this past weekend and when I was letting my mind wander during the bike leg, I kept saying "Rrrrrrremco Eeeeeeevenpooeell" in my head / out loud. so thank you for that :)
Congrats on the tri brother
Hope youre hooked.
After reading this I can only imagine, I’m gonna end up firing it off in my head next big ride.
In retrospect, TJV didn't expect Jonas to take so much time on stage 16 after his attack. That was down to UAE being dumb, which created this weird race dynamics. I guess in week 3 they wanted to get as many wins as possible for Jonas & Roglic and GC for Kuss. But the time gaps created awkward mess
Agreed. Best “mess", I ever seen. Jonas excels, on evry parameter
This mess is what makes Remco shine, otherwise we all know he won because both Pr and Jv, were holding back to protect kuss.
I almost don't think anything has gone according to Jumbo's plan this Vuelta. I highly doubt they planned on Kuss getting in a break and taking so much time on GC. Probably also expected him to bomb on the TT. And then didn't expect Jonas to take a minute on a 5km climb with 4 UAE riders chasing him. Probably also didn't expect the PR nightmare when Roglic won yesterday. Overall a decent result for them though even though nothing went as expected.
I think the goal was to put more time between third and fourth places. The strategy was to use all hands to attack/weaken the GC group. If an attacker gets a gap, they should go as far as they can, while the others sit on until they are ready to attack again.
What happened was -- well, YOU chase down Jonas when he's feeling good!
The important result was pushing the gap between Roglic and Ayuso to nearly three minutes, allowing Jumbo to ride strictly defensively.😊😊😊
@@GDF07 > didn't expect Jonas to take a minute on a 5km climb with 4 UAE riders chasing him
This I can see them actually expect. JV is a KING on any ascent over 10% ... this is where he is truely unbeatable.
Which is why even record-time Angliru was a cakewalk for him, he basically just relaxed in Roglics wheel.
Van Aert gave the win to Laporte, now they give Kuss the chance to win the Vuelta. At TJV they know that working together is more rewarding than doing everything for 1 leader. The best team I have ever seen work so well together, not easy, in the end they are all riders who dream of winning.
About time they copped on! The Team Directors finally said they were the bosses!
This was a call of social media, no doubts about that after Roglic words. The Directors would have done nothing if they have not felt all the pressure coming after those 2 stages. I can believe Jonas would not take the win from Kuss by himself, but if it was not yesterday Roglic would have attacked today 200%. Jumbo is just so much better than everyone else that they can do these unbelievable mistakes and still smoke everyone in the race.
@@GDF07People on social media are not he smartest.
@@hisztorry And yet here we are 😳😂
@@brendanward9877 I think Roglic is the one that (finally) shot Jonas down. On the previous stage Jonas raced against Kuss and Roglic. And that move could have cost the entire team by the time the last mountain stage is complete. Especially of continually repeated.
Props to Kron for hitting so many breakaways and top5 in like 5 stages
+ winning a stage
Jonas taking the title of strongest domestique in the world away from Kuss. How selfish! 😉
Hard crowd to please! JV wins he gets smacked if he supports he gets smacked 😂 🙄
@@2niteL8Rpretty obvious there's reluctance here
@@veganpotterthevegan I think it’s a tricky situation for the team and the riders. I would like to see Sepp have a win! Saying that as a Dane!
I can also see the desire and dilemma for all involved. We the punters here are quick to judge. We think we know!
I would like to see both Rog and JV ride in support of, and that Sepp makes the most of that opportunity!
@2niteL8R not a total punter. I'm an expro and couldn't imagine pulling the nonsense they pulled yesterday. And it's not like plenty of pro tour riders haven't stated how bothered they are by what happened. Sepp had gladly stopped on the road multiple times in his career to wait for Jonas and Roglic when he could have had a career defining win instead.
@@veganpotterthevegansource: trust me bro.
People are literally super simpleminded and senseless to Jumbos tactics... They are 1, 2 and 3 in GC! What more can you ask? Nevertheless, one day Vingegaard is called an arrogant ***hole and the other day he is treated like an angel. If people were a little more patient they would not blow the last few days of racing up to something that it is not. They are 1,2 3 in GC, and 1,2,3 in TWO stages, which is litterly insane. Don't treat them as politicians. Jumbo has done something historical in this Vuelta, lets appreciate that, instead of discussing wired politics within the team.
Litterly
They're not politicians but you are their campaign manager. LOL.
I think this stage made the TJV inside feuds pretty clear. Roglic wants his 4th vuelta win and because he's leaving TJV at the end of the season anyway he wouldn't worry about ruining any team dynamics. Jonas has a competitive rivalry with roglic, so he felt like he should, and when he could he did, attack roglic. But Jonas isn't gonna attack Sepp, we saw today how he slow down to get some distance between him and his teammate in GC.
Jonas attacked to get 2nd in GC, and yesterday roglic attacked Kuss so he attacked Roglic himself. If roglic doens't attack Kuss now, Jonas has no reason to attack either
@@ivanbastos4963lol you literally just did what the commenter said not to do
Spot on. The public looking dumb with their comments on the previous days.
Love when Jonas takes control man, absolute beast.
Crazy to think that Jonas could easily win this Vuelta just on the fly after his Tour win if he wanted too
Must suck if you made a bet on him as winner.
Jv just let this one go. Now he is just in it for fun
He is the best climber right now. There's hardly anyone to compete with him on long high climbs. Had a feeling he was holding back even on stages he won. At Angliru too, he could have smoked Primoz but chose not to take the red jersey away from Kuss.
Even Vingegaard is not in his best shape, he still way ahead of everyone in their very best. Only Pogačar can battle against Vingegaard.
He needs a 4 week tour, its too easy for him
Now Jonas should demand the excuses from every cycling fan who called him a snake yesterday, apparently not recalling the classy gestures he had already shown in last year's TdF with Pogacar and WVA.
Given that it’s a team sport with humans that have real emotions, it’s pleasing to see a team act nicely in a team sport when they’re able to. Well done JV & Sepp Kuss.
They have been slapped into shape by the higher ups after the yesterday’s outcry, make no mistake about that
Looks like Jumbo Visma got the message. Social Media blew up last night with criticism about dropping Sepp on Stage 17. Chris Horner (2013 Vuelta GC winner) tore them a new one. Thank goodness Jumbo put in a solid team effort today on Stage 18 and protected Sepp and the Red Jersey. Kudos to Jonas & Primoz! Great ride Sepp! Chris Horner, Butterfly Effect: ruclips.net/video/FjmvsJkD9To/видео.html
@@JP41257Chris Horner is an absolute hack
And how about pulling up stumps? Quite obviously Jonas has been the best rider in the Vuelta (looked totally unbothered by roglic’s pace yesterday) and it’s a slap in the face of the race and the other competitors. I get the team aspect but Jumbo should’ve done a better job of keeping this from turning into what it has.
and todays knucklehead award goes toooo.......... the american social shitstorm and Chris Horner himself. Bravo America you won the Vuelta for GC Kuss@@JP41257
What a gift for sepp. If he can keep it he deserves it. He’s worked so hard for both roglic and Jonas
Not a gift, a payback
Not a payback, the man is good at the job he is paid for
No No a gift for Jumbo! It's very important to remember that cycling is a TEAM sport so Kuss didn't win anything. Jumbo did 🙄
Jumbo also won TDF and the Giro. Don't even know why Roglic and Vingegaard worked so hard....
Gift? It's called teamwork
not a payback, a GIFT, a shameful one too @@nicolasl
TJV is looking for a new sponsor. GC Kuss winning a grand tour as American + the transfer of one of the biggest talents of the usa (Jorgenson) - I expect a cycling boom in the usa and some BIG sponsoring offers flying into the office of TJV for 2024.
oh yeah for sure, also don't forget the Netflix effect. I know the TdF series is half in French, but it's being promoted to the same people who watched and loved Drive to Survive, and that must have played a large part in the recent growth of F1 in America.
Rabobank will return to cycling.
They already have a new Sponsor locked up. It‘s some European crypto trading Company/Site…
I do not hope so Americans means a lot of unnecessary drama, not the individual but the media hype that follows.
@@r3drum3k92you serious?
Respect to team Jumbo and Jonas for his taking control and letting the world know that Sepp is being taken care of until the end.
Vingegård dropped a bit of time intentionally so that he wont take the red jersey accidentally if he wins a stage.
Smart move
Yep, for sure! I had the same idea he wanted a greater than 10 sec buffer so he can get a win without stealing the GC from Kuss.
So it is okay to win a stage now?
I wonder, when Roglic wins and is still 1 minute behind, it is wrong and everyone are angry. But when Vingegard wins, it is ok? Talking about double standards.
Tripple, woke standards to let the little man win was not part of the original script by Jumbo, but trapped two stronger riders due to social media pressure along the way.
A breakaway with “Remco Evenepoel and Evenepoel” is always going to win the stage
It's like having Eddy Merckx and The Cannibal in the same break.
Jumbo Visma turned Remco into a breakaway rider
@@KshitijGarg-e4q😂 and took all the attention from him too
@@KshitijGarg-e4q Remco's "wolf pack" did that.
It's two of the most dangerous riders to have in a breakaway!
Thanks Pat, that new last climb (done twice) is a great addition to the canon of La Vuelta climbs. What a spectacular view from the top for the presentations.
So Vingegaard effectively gives up a Grand Tour Victory and passes it to his teammate. Wow that’s generous.
Watching it real time, Vingegaard didn't look so strong today, actually.
@@cup_and_cone He definitely backed off on purpose today, he's definitely the strongest in the race
@@cup_and_cone ye definetely had more in the tank, and I'm sure he could've beaten Roglic on the Angliru
@@ste9240 I agree that it certainly looked like he could have rode away from Primoz yesterday. None of us are in the team bus, so who knows what the real story is or what Jonas was thinking.
True. He just sat up at angliru and today too..getting so much hate for nothing. He always managed the gap, if he wanted he would have smoked Primoz and Kuss.
Think the Lantern guys gets a little carried away here by Kuss mania 😂
Vingegaard obviously didn't tell Kuss to slow down because he himself was afraid of getting dropped but because he was concerned about Kuss burning unnecessary steam.
Very clear that Jonas was captain in control, and helped Sepp at various critical parts of the race. He even talked calmly in the radio at the same time as he was closing gaps. Totally superior.
And just to demonstrate it further, he on purpose dropped a few seconds the last 50m just in case he gets some bonus seconds the next stages to avoid getting into another shit storm 😊
Yes, i believe that you are 100% correct here.
I agree totally, it seemed abit dull holding back Pr and Jv but the team has decided due to pressure from fans and media. Otherwise RE wouldn't have won so easily today.
Dropping on purpose seems very hypothetical and not really like Vingegaard. Also Vingegaard was pacing for a long time which is really tiring so he might have been feeling it when Sepp upped the pace. Plus he was at the very back of the group and not really in a wheel.
@@vinnieboy3963 So you think that Landa and Mas (or who it was up front) whom Vingegaard has toyed with for the last two weeks suddenly today, of ALL days, were superior to Jonas? No I can't PROVE it, but it's damn unlikely considering that the pace up the last climb was not super intense or super long 😏
Jonas knows he will end second so why would he sprint like crazy the last 50m when he could see that Kuss was alright? Come on, it's obvious unless you're a die hard Kuss fan....
@@clauso72 He closed gaps, paced and was in a suboptimal position as you have less drag towards the front. Also your legs aren't the same every day and he went hard yesterday, so he could definitely get dropped, as a domestique.
That doesnt mean that Landa and Mas (and Ayuso who is quite strong) are superior though.
Sad to see the negative publicity Jumbo got from actually racing. English commentators on discovery+ talked about it all day, with a very negative attitude towards competing
Kuss said it himself: He wants to win if he is good enough.
Not sure if it is just for making drama, when the GC race is stale, or if people actually think it is wrong to increase time gaps to competitors and secure stage wins.
I really don't care who wins, I like all of them. But I do want to watch the best cyclists trying their hardest on the toughest stages.
Sad to see the brain rot from people forgetting this is a team sport that no one wins by themselves; yes, even those who now have to pull for someone else for a change. Or maybe Jonas can race the TDF next year unaffiliated and we'll see how well he does.
@@plain-bagel
What part of your comment had anything to do with what I wrote?
Sadly the english speaking commentators have their agenda. A joke. On a side note I hope that we will see real racing in the next GT.
The amount of hate Jonas got was totally unnecessary... He truely is a teamplayer and show great sportsmanship to his teammates and competitors.
I hope the haters feel a little embarrassed now..
Congrats to Kuss, one hell of rider.
Nah.. Haters still gonna hate. They'll just find something else o hate about him.
I think true cycling fans are not haters of Jonas, they all admire him for his talents. It’s the American bandwagon jumping on board the patriotic train that is causing all the fuss. It’s been all over the USA news that an American was leading the Vuelta and they all suddenly jump in and whinge to try and get their way. Blame it all on the strongest rider who is considerably stronger than their boy.
@@Spruikermania You're all absurdly wrong. You think critical commentary is only about allegiance to a cult or nation or something? Look up Freudian projection. Also look up false choice and straw man fallacies.
@@indonesiaamerica7050 They will finish 1,2,3 regardless so FFS let the strongest rider win. Kuss as a domesticate is paid very well, finishing 2nd or 3rd would be a great achievement knowing he earnt it. Kuss even said after Stage 16 that he didn’t want any favours. Now he will be remembered for receiving the most generous gift we have seen in Grand Tours this century. Jonas handing Kuss the Vuelta !!
That's what happens when you attack your teammate 3 times. I'm glad the team folded to the pressure. Jonas is forever a snake.
Vindegaard would win this Vuelta if he wanted to.
Yaaah he iz the strongest the way he bring bek Landa and Ayuso is something else
I can understand giving up a few stages to a domestique, but not a grand tour
Insane. Jonas may never be in a position to win the vuelta again. Shitshow.
@@dannyjensen2123 dude is their team's best gc guy and is 26 years old he got at least 5-7 more years to win the vuelta, sepp is 29 and a domestique. it is sepp who may never be in the position to win vuelta or any gt ever again.
@@austienbryandemesa5841 Jonas will hopefully leave this insane shitshow of a team as soon as possible. He cannot know if he will have the opportunity to win the Vuelta ever again. And he has just been forced to hand it over to a mediocre domestique who got lucky on a breakaway. This is scandalous and disrespect to the vuelta, Jonas and every real cycling fan.
Omg finally all the keyboard DS can take a breath after the best cyclist in the world pulls domestique duties for Kuss
Yesterday people were saying kuss will find another team. I think it was more likely to be roglic. I believe roglic wanted the win more. Jonas was like not on my watch. Either its going to be kuss or myself.
Hopefully not a Froome/Ineos situation, I really like him at Jumbo
They received so much flak after Stage 17 that they realised attacking/defeating Kuss would be a pr disaster and Kuss would up sticks. I am glad order has been restored. Kuss deserves this after all he has done for them. I think Roglic remains the fly in the ointment, though.
I wanted to see Roglic on Bahrain. It seems like they have the full mountain train to support a top GC rider.
@@djackson652 thanks for your insider knowledge! what would we do without you🥸
Exactlly , Jonas coveret seep , and only followed roglick , anyway they were the 3 strongest on the strongest team , Nice race
Today Jonas won what many thought he could maybe never win. Our hearts ❤😂
Nah, not even close, it was obvious he was forced to behave
@@tonyg3091 He's said he like for Kuss to win ever since he first got the red jersey. Any excuse to hate on him just because you know he is the best GT rider in the world.
@@jeppelrkesen9060 Ah yes he said that…and then went on and attacked Sepp twice. Just to prove how much he wanted Kuss to win, lol
@@tonyg3091Cry baby. Just be happy that Kuss is winning the Vuelta
@@tonyg3091 Did he take the red jersey away from Kuss? No.
Damn, I love your recaps 🙏🏻! Gonna donate/subscribe as soon as my finances improve 🥹
Vingegaard did a great Job yesterday and today...it's Roglic that seems to have a problem with Kuss winning this Vuelta....not so strange though.....he has been working towards this for months....conclusion is that Jumbo Visma was so dominant that it's almost ridiculous!!!!
I agree. Jonas took the stage the day before, fine.
Yesterday Primos went while Sepp struggled and Jonas I think said sod it, I'm not handing the Vuelta to Primos
you are delusional. First you forgot team TT where jonas got dropped… Then he attacked 2 times when roglic stayed with kuss and when roglic attacked once sudenly he is the bad guy. I just wanted to see roglic free and we couldnt see that plus kuss got free ride where he made 4 minutes like jonas where he got 1 min. Noone was pulling….
Roglic attacked on angliru to win the stage and distance himself from landa not far behind in the back and very close on gc
@@781mmMy guy, Jonas had a mechanical during the TTT. Of course you wait there, he is the best GC Rider in the world right know. But what Roglic did yesterday was unnecessary. He could’ve waited for everybody and he would still outsprint them and on Tourmalet he tried to get a gap and failed, he could only gain time in the sprint to the line. Of course this isn’t bad per se, but there is no bad and good here, fact is that Jonas pulled for Sepp today and Roglic didn’t, Although Jonas is ahead of him.
@@moritzknoll1737 so when jonas was behind roglic he could attack red yersey but when roglic is 2minutes behind he cant??? You forgot that they let jonas 2 times to get away and bring back 1.40m???? The man was tired didnt you see that he was let to come back in the game?? Even on TT we saw where he was with his shape.
This is like the South Park version of football, called "Sarcastaball". Once again they were spot on !
I remember way back in the distant past when Vingegaard was a GT champion.
You could se jonas wanted to slow down his own on time on purepose, when Sepp crossed the line
Where new vid
I appreciate your work! Thank you.
Go Kuss! The Eagle has landed 💪
"the eagle" received a medal out of pity.
Kuss will always be remembered for being gifted a Grand Tour. Jonas with the most incredible gift in cycling that we have seen this century. Lets hope the American fans are happy
The 'eagle' will be KFC before the last stage! He will crack, and no leader is going to 'carry' a domestique over the finish line. In your dreams!
@@-es2bf Yeah, it's a fkin shame what pro cycling has evolved into . . . leaders 'gifting ' domestiques Grand Tours?
@@savagepro9060just like domestiques “gifting” GTs to GC riders. It’s hilarious and an absolute joke to think anybody wins a tour by themselves. Wout and Kuss were pulling like crazy all TdF.
Good look by Jonas and Roglic. Well done.
Fantastic content. Love it❤
I’m so fucking happy that jumbo are a team again like my grin after watching this is unparalleled
Roglic leaving, this what clowns did to the sport
I can’t wait to watch the documentary. Because there must’ve been going so much on behind the scenes on Jumbo Visma in this Vuelta.
Did Remco even try? It's absurd how he's like "Guess I'm just going to win every stage I want now" after dropping from GC :D
Complimenti ai due ragazzi della Jumbo. In questo modo sono davvero entrati tutti e tre nella storia di questo sport.
Una vittoria, quella di Kuss, che vale molto più di una doppietta Giro-Vuelta o Tour-Vuelta❤
Where are all the critics today? All the americans, who suddenly have an opinion and all the Pogacar fans - can’t seem to find them!…
I've had an opinion since Ullrich took over for Riis.
Evenepoel is awesome. He keeps his name at the front by riding at the front. What a rider.
the best from the rest
They let him go Jumbo Visma, no chance if he was in the top 5.
I blame Remco for all the negative press Jumbo is getting. If he didn't blow up and was competing for a podium spot on GC, Jumbo probably doesn't end up having to take turns winning stages and actually has to to race.
Would have been a really interesting dilemma if Remco had been gaining on GC and TJV had a choice between using Jonas and Primos to try to keep Sepp in red and risk that they would lose the win completely or else they could accept that Sepp couldn't hold on, not defend Sepp in red and instead have Sepp work to get Jonas or Remco into a good spot to take the jersey for the team. Without the rest of the field putting pressure on them you have the three TJV "squabbling" among themselves. Maybe it's wishful thinking that they always understood you don't take the leader's jersey from your own teammate, but I hope they all had that understanding. @@GDF07
@@GDF07
Hey, good for Remco like that so that Sepp will be secured for Vuelta 2023. If Remco maintains as a threat to TJV surely Jonas & Primos would compete with him toe-to-toe & hard for Sepp to hold his Red Jersey!
I was waiting for this summary so bad
Just love every time my man says Remco Eeeeeevenpoel 😅
Stage 19?
Not a perfect analogy, but the TJV/Kuss situation seems similar to a scenario that occurs in baseball from time to time: Your starting pitcher holds the opposition hitless for the first 8 innings but he is beginning to tire. If the manager pulls the starter sends the ace reliever out to start the ninth, every single fan would be irate even if they knew that the reliever would have a better chance of finishing the game with a win. There is no manager that would pull the starter because they would say that the starting pitcher earned the right to try to finish the no hitter. And the fans would demand it because they want to witness to a no hitter. Sports are filled with norms that place a higher value on emotion, loyalty, and honor than just "pure competition".
Jonas is giving to sepp kuss his not attaking anymore,,i know he can win but respect to sepp is nice move.congrats TJV.
I guess we know who’s won it now. Has a team been THIS dominant before?
maybe Sky way back but not lately for sure
@@PMP5240-e3iI was thinking Astana in 2009. They nearly swept the Tour podium!
Always sad to have to mention it and i hope tjv are clean, but in the past decades only teams with the "best" doctors got close
La Vie Claire
I guess we should not talk about it, but I remember US postal beeing this dominant in the dark ages...
My boys, samen winnen 😍 amazing stuff
So many people chastized both Primoz and Jonas...
We are not in the TJV team buses(2 echelons racing 2 seperate tours at the same time) Wout helping Laporte/Jonas&Primoz helping Sepp.
Calm down people. TJV is undisputed the most well rounded team in this era of cycling. If you think about it, they themselves capture so many accolades as well as emotions. Stamping themselves into the history books. Postal, Skyy, Jumbo and all the others before them and to the ones to come after. Cycling is incredible.
Cheers guys
Cheers
All I can say is, you can never see this in any other sport. Imagine telling Kobe Bryant at his peak to give the MVP title to a more popular teammate. Heck, you can’t even expect this from another cycling superstar. Would Pogacar be satisfied being 2nd to let’s say Soler? On a grand tour? I don’t think so.
People don’t give enough credit to Roglic and Vingegaard being able to let go of their personal ambitions like this.
Your hypothetical took a wrong turn when you used Soler as an example, That guy is a squirrely, unreliable teammate who is famous for bailing on his team's plan. He's basically the opposite of Sepp.
@@charliedillon1400 but Soler was number 2 in GC not too long ago, also rode the time trial of his life just like Kuss, AND he pulled Pogacar on Mont Blanc and saved his podium in TdF. By that logic, he DESERVES to be given the red jersey right? Because that seems to be the case with Kuss.
Suddenly, the same logic does not apply because it’s not Sepp Kuss. 🤷♀️
@@lalala-vh4pi Spot on mate. Or imagine Verstappen was told not to overtake Perez just because he was in the lead in lap 4 out of 50 laps. Shame it has come down to this, that the winner is picked on social media.
The NBA MVP is an individual award so your Kobe Bryant example doesn't work. Cycling and basketball are team sports, Jonas/Primoz doesn't win without Sepp and Kobe doesn't win without Shaq, Gasol, etc. People with your mindset do not understand the concept of a team sport at all.
@@BoxCarBoy12 it’s exactly as you say, they are both team sports and are very similar. Kobe have had so many important helpers but I don’t see a world where he would give up being MVP to one of his precious helpers who helped the team win. Being a GT champion is an individual award as well. Being 2nd place is not the same.
Imagine being so good that you can just give a Grand Tour to your mate as a thankyou 😂😂
Stop Biasing! Sepp Kuss earned it! Deservedly so... 😏
@@nataneley No doubt No doubt. But could Jonas have taken red if he wanted to🤔🤔
@@gace4916 From what I witnessed he tried but he couldn't
@@famaskim2310 I’m just saying that Jonas could have won the Veulta but decided to let Kuss win. Am I wrong?
@@nataneley He was pacing the last climb
If this plays out, it will be the second time that the podium of the final grand tour of the year has all 3 winners of the grand tours that year
What Remco is doing, winning from the break is confirmation of my theory that if Pogacar lost loads of time day 1 of the TDF each year, he could probably set the record for most tour wins by the end of his career. Obviously it would be more complicated than that but it's fun to think about. For someone of Pogi's stature, I wonder what would be more meaningful to his legacy, one or two more gc victories at the tour or setting the stage win record.
Why doesn't Evenepol have the rainbow stripes on this jersey and bibs?
Bc he is „only“ the Time Trial World Champ, he was wearing the rainbow shirt in the time trial. But Van der Poel is the road world champion, he is riding in rainbow bibs and jersey.
Loved today's stage. Really fantastic.
Yesterday was giving the GC in the tour riders the chance to say they could win. Today was giving Sepp Kuss the win. Insane he was a super domestique through 2 tours and made it this far and will get the Red.
Couldn't have happened to a more likeable guy and it probably only happened because Jonas wasn't on another team.
This is a remarkable team effort and great sportmanship by Jonas Vingegaard. He is truely a great human being. And shurely something we'll never see Tadej Pogacar do for a teammate.
Really? You mean like when he told Yates to keep going and fight for his podium position when Pog cracked in the TDF? Pog is the best teammate one could ask for!
@@Xavierfanchris He was completely roasted....Jonas isn't 😂
@@Xavierfanchris😭
Jonas, good job!
A priceless sight! 😂
Jonas just gifted a GRAND TOUR away. We all wanted Sepp to win, but too me that’s crazyyyy😅
How many Grand Tours did Sepp Kuss "give" away prior?
@@pfeifencarl None, he couldn't have won any of them...
@@pfeifencarlzero? He is a great mountain domestique but not a gc rider.
@@pfeifencarlHe gave up stages
It's not really a gift or giving away I think. It's just brilliant team tactics, looking forward to the future cooperation of these guys, they're common history and how they want the team to be remembered. Best possible outcome for the team and the fans. Great work!
And all those who were calling him "selfish" the other day, where are they now...? Eejits.
Great intro! Nice tease and suspense!
Question: was sending Kuss in the break on whatever stage it was (3?) planned to get him into the jersey? Does Kuss win he if isn't sort of gifted the ~3 minutes (not a perceived GC threat by other teams, so not chased like if Roglic or Jonas were trying to get in the break) from winning that stage in the break?
No. If Kuss had not been in the break, there is no chance that he wins the Vuelta. But he would still have been 3rd on the podium behind Vingegaard and Roglic and that's impressive in itself.
Now i can go to sleep. LR video dropped.
I think of the two,Jonas is the more willing to ride for Kuss Primoz not so much because he knows his time is passing he wants more GT wins now.And I think he could win this Vuelta if he was allowed,That said Kuss has been a great domestique for the team and a personable guy,But a gifted win is worthless.What a tough game pro cycling is
You should refrain from stating what they are saying in their com's with such centainty, when it turns out you are wrong most of the time ;) (Sepp saying "wait up" and Vingegaard saying "wait up" when they are saying "go, guys") Otherwise big fan!
How great Jonas Vingegaard is , he gave Sepp the victory today and The Vuelta 23 . What a Sportsman
It's wild to me to think that not attacking your teammate, in the leader's jersey by roughly 1:30, is being considered a gift. I have no doubt that if Kuss weren't involved and Roglic had that lead over Jonas going into the last week, that would be it. Everyone rides for Roglic.
Remco chilled on stage 13 so he could win more stages and KOM. Jumbo too strong to challenge for GC. Smart, take the palmares where you can.
Go Sepp!
It'a been disgusting these last couple of days seeing the media, pundits and "fans" pressuring the team and the riders to stand down so they can see their preferred rider win. Everything has to fit their narrative or out come the pitchforks.
This is not how competitive sport should be run. It should be the best man wins. When the best team already wins, it should be the best rider in that team that wins.
Because of what happened the last few days, the vuelta is tarnished, and we will never know who is the real winner.
A gifted win in a grand tour! I can't imagine the humiliation for the winner and for the ones who had to stand down. Now and forever Sepp Kuss will be known as the winner of a grand tour that had his win gifted to him.
It's crazy that a bunch of talking heads and keyboard warriors demand a result they wanted and getting it too. I've never seen something so ridiculous. Ugh.
100%
Maybe its the woke movement in cycling now. Very boring, Imagine 2 gt winners holding back because of the media and entitled fans! It dulls the vuelta soo much! But anyway the sponsors have to make money I guess.
so you know what JV said on the team radio ? and that was for SK to slow down, because he did the hard work ???
who are you , ? do you at all understand cycling or just another us trumper @@famaskim2310
Days of "may the best man win" was not any of these 21
So finally it is up to social media to elect the winner of a Grand Tour. Like this is some Disney movie, and the good guy always wins, Really? It is the death of cycling. It should have been the strongest guy, that is why I watch cycling races. It is a sport - a competition. Not a bloody award show for being the nicest guy in the peloton, but hey the can make a jersey for that too. Kuss will win it honestly. I dont like TJV holding back neither Roglic nor Vingegård, just to please people who doesnt like real cycling. Too sad. Cycling just died as a sport. RIP
jonas holding back so the american could win is insane to me
Tiberi looked good in this last week, maybe he's the italian hope for future GT podiums or at least top 5 in a Giro
Is there a chance for Kuss after he works on his time trial bike to be a another top gc contender next season... Nice topic to be discussed and analysis
did he not try earlier on? and still ended outside top 15? As profesional as Jumbo is, I think that the numbers they have on the riders, no one comes close to Jonas. Jonas is kinda freak of nature, his lungs and heart are much larger as I remember.
As Kuss said earlier... Before the tt.. He hasn't been on the tt bike for a long time and he never put a serious dig at the previous grand tours.
How I saw the Vulelta. Kuss getting into red was an accident. Jumbo Visma (TJV) told him to get in the break (stage 6) with Remco leading they would chase and bring Vingegaard (JV) and Roglic with them. Kuss ended up with significant time. TJV assumed with break, time bonuses, time trial, stage 13 and ultimately stage 17 Kuss would loose time and be out of red and that one of their leaders would come to the fore. JV takes off 7 km from finish of stage 13 and Kuss and Rogglic only start chasing with 1km to put time into their competitors. Roglic at 1:37 JV at 1:44. Kuss does a better time trial than expected JV a little worse. Now we come to the critical stage-that was 16. TJV had Roglic taking the stage with an ending sprint. JV had other ideas, took off at 5km to go; Kuss and Roglic don’t chase down their own teammate but mark the other riders. JV takes 1:10. This takes Roglic out of the picture at 1:37 with only Kuss at 30 sec ahead of JV. Onto stage 17 Kuss does better than expected but cracks with 2 km remaining. Typically this means a couple minutes will be lost but he hitches on to Landa and only looses 22 sec. A surprise to TJV. JV at 8 sec Roglic at 1:04. Now there is consternation among retired riders, commentators, the public, etc. saying they have never seen a situation where two teammates tried to put their leader into difficulty 2 stages in a row. But I only see one problem and that is Vingegaard. Roglic is out of the picture. TJV feels the heat and tells Roglic and JV (stage 18) to lay off the attacks unless Kuss cracks. Two stages to go. Is the drama over?
Vingegaard could have won the Vuelta today without breaking a sweat (8 sec)... but he decided to loose time. Time of drama is over. Today Roglic refused to lead Kuss while being 1+ min behind. What a guy, while Vingegaard dropped second intentionally in the end. If Visma got 1 problem after this, its Roglic.
Vingegaard emitted to danish tv that he gave some seconds to kiss because he was too close.
2 times TDF winner and also worlds best domestique. I think it is time for you to learn the Danish pronunciation of Vingegaard, Lantern Rouge ;)
Little disappointing seeing kuss just being given the vuelta. Hes not the team captain for a reason, and you get the impression that both vingegaard and roglic could win easily if they wanted to.
This is what media pressure and keyboard warriors amount to, it dulls the sport in a way
In the first week or 2, sure. But attacking your teammate this late when your team has the whole podium locked down is selfish. It's a team sport, and they owe Sepp many a grand tour victory. Roglic definitely tried to take the GC yesterday and he wasn't strong enough to take if from Sepp. You can't be a diva for 2 weeks then sprint 2k up a hill because you are a 'punchy' rider and take a victory from your teammate who didn't ask to be in this postion, but here we are...If Primoz wants to be GC, then ride the whole race and defend. Having an overly talented and lopsided team and doing the minimal effort dulls the sport. I think Primoz needs a new team where he can be the focus.
Honestly, there are so many arguments over how it "should have gone". People forget reality just doesn't care what we want.
This Vuelta was determined because of 3 things:
Kuss gaining red and a few minutes to the other GC contenders when it wasn't expected.
Evenepoel loosing almost 30 minutes during stage 13.
Jonas gaining 1 minute on Kuss in 5 km, because none of the other GC contenders wanting to try to pull back a Vingegaard in good condition.
The most important part of those 3, is Evenepoel loosing 30 minutes. Had that not happened, Kuss would never be allowed to go for GC, nor the win.
Does it suck for Primoz to loose his chance for winning the Vuelta, because of PR and Team Politics? Yes.
But it's what happened.
You may be right, but please learn the difference in meaning between "lose" and "loose.". You spelled it wrong 3 times in a row. One loses time, one looses (sets loose) cattle.
TDF 2024 will be crazy!!! Remco vs Pogi vs Jonas 🔥🔥🔥
im new to this sport, can anyone tell me my why jonas can't try to win a double now that they are so close to each other on time? i get it's a very unique position to be in when you are 1, 2 ,3 but when they are so close why can't they fight for it rather than gift it to someone?
Welcome to the unique world of grand tour racing… Not all the rules are written down. Or easily understood.
There are a lot of unwritten rules about whether it's the right thing to do. But at the end of the day, it's mostly because Jonas doesn't want to take the red jersey away from his loyal teammate. It's as simple as that really.
Imagine a team looking for a new sponsor. Imagine a team with a possible winner from a country with the biggest pool of sponsor money in the world.
Yeah isn’t that something. We will see
Is a Saudi winning the Vuelta?
I am sure sponsor know this probably be a one time experience that a tour can develop like this so it end up that Sepp will be racing for win
@@bene4577😂😂😂😂
@@tonyg3091 World Champions of WHAT
The jumbo gap to everyone other team is damn
Vinge is a real team mate , in week 3 , we al know he could if he would
I like cycling but when times like this.. Just like movie.. Because its not vini vidi vici... The strongest win.. We know who is the strongest
As a Colorado native, I want so badly in my heart for Sepp to win La Vuelta. On the other hand though, I agree with the people who are saying it should go to the strongest rider, which is clearly either Jonas or Primoz. The comments on the last three videos have been a roller coaster lol.
Edit: Sepp apologizing to Jonas after gapping him to the line 😭 dudes got a heart of gold!
Well thank goodness that was sorted out. Just in time, too.
I think Roglic is pretty annoyed right now. First he has to let go of the tour JV wins and the next year he wins the giro but JV gets another tour and then they put JV on the GT he was also set to win. That Kuss can also win just means he is not really needed anymore which will hurt his contract as he is not even the clear number 2 in the team
wirst heart sign ever
It wasn't a heart, it was an O for his wife.
Well well, this has been interesting
in last TDF 2023 jonas won bcouz he fought againt UAE and no one there when it matters most. jonas has to fight every min to defend against tadej..when tadej had his team..
Wheres all the Jonas and Primoz haters now?
All in all they’ve won 2 extra stages for the team, expanded the time down to 4th, secured top 3 all whilst keeping Sepp in red. Quite unwarranted and ridiculous amount of hate these to have gotten the last couple of days. Jonas even stated multiple times he wants Sepp to win.
Keyboard warriors and couch experts will always be the same I guess.
Absolutely deluxes workers for Sepp K 💪👍
This Jonas domestique guy should be allowed to go for his own result in one of the smaller races. Free Jonas!
Yep, he certainly looks promising.
Good work by Jonas. Very honorable.
For those of you who bet big money on either roglic or jonas winning the vuelta. Im sorry for you.
Lets hope this doesnt damage the sport with sponsors and bettingsites not wanting any of it.