I always use that 'silver' colored anti-seize coating on all of my spark plugs, all my wheel lug bolts/nuts, and all of my stainless steel fasteners. The 'silver' stuff is a blend of aluminum, copper and graphite lubricants.
Outstanding demonstration. I always wondered why the stainless nut would get stuck after only a few turns. Makes perfect sense the way you explained it. Thanks Bob!
I had this galling happen on steel bolts into steel threads cut into a frame. are most steel bolts cold rolled too? that would explain a lot. I used 30wt oil thinking that would be sufficient....it wasnt.
Whether a thread is cut or roll formed, there should be no friction or resistance when fastening by hand like that if both nut AND bolt are within tolerances of the UN standard. But, yes there will be galling once fastened pressure starts and tork is applied.
What this video does is show something about galling but what it does not do in tell why galling really takes place. Metallurgists will tell you that two similar metals pushed together have a much stronger tendency to gall. Something soft like 304 stainless steel has a very strong tendency to gall. That even includes the washers used. If you want to reduce the tendency to gall use a hard and soft SS together - say a 304 SS bolt and a 301 SS Nut or washer. Sure the Anti-Seize solutions work but not the only way to do it.
Thanks for the input David! Mixing grades of hard and soft stainless would have less of a tendency to gall, however it would not work for every application because each grade of stainless has its own unique properties in terms of corrosion resistance, magnetism, etc. One example would be a boat on salt water that has to have all 316 stainless fasteners to avoid rusting. But yes, there are quite a few tricks out there that will work (we even used to use Maalox before they stopped making it!).
Starting working in a large slaughter house over 50 years ago. Between the kill floor salt filled hide cellar rendering room where they cooked the guts and cattle pens place was a nightmare for galling rust & corrosion. We used never seeze on everything.
What would you do if the bolt needed to be torqued? Most bolt specifications on motorcycles are based on dry threads, whereas using anti-seize would alter the final torque.
The main problem we are experiencing is the Quality of metal being used . Rubbish Chinese bolts, nuts and washers. Sold as high Quality for high prices. That's the problem. You are been shafted.
@@AlbanyCountyFasteners it cant be both. one question asked if any anti seize would be ok (including aluminum) and the other question asked if just those 4 are ok (excluding aluminum). the answer to both cant be yes.
There is! It's called the Fastener Black Book. It's a small book containing all manner of fastener related information from types and materials, to finishes and measuring standards, to application uses and mechanical properties. We use it around the office all the time and It's very helpful. You can find it here: amzn.to/2Js2mCp
I didn't even know the word galling until Saturday. Then I tried to take the threaded caps off an aluminium sausage stuffer (we had been butchering a pig), and I ended up learning a hell of a lot about it. Fortunately one of the people helping with the butchering was a mechanical fitter, so after a lot of hitting the stuffer with a hammer and heating it with boiling water we managed to get it apart. He gave me a bit of advice for the future though - "Don't ever buy anything made in Poland: you'll regret it." Glad to see that there's food-grade anti-seize. Next time I'll use it (or buy a better sausage stuffer).
That's some fun advice! Well, here's hoping next time around the anti-seize can help you out with that. Or the better sausage stuffer. Whichever you go with!
Thank you for this video. I am trying to secure a metal rack on my bike frame. The bike frame is made out of alloy; I made the mistake of using SS bolts and nylon lock nuts and experienced galling. Had to drill both bolts out and damaged some threads in the bike frame. I'm think of using 8.8 or 10.9 grade bolts instead now to avoid galling and seizing. Would it be OK to use nylon SS lock nuts or just plain SS nuts with the 8.8 or 10.9 bolts through the alloy bike frame? Anti-seize recommended still? If so, what type?
It's a shame no one replied to you. This is a bit late but yes, anti seize is recommended. You can use either a types. I have worked on my own vehicles for over forty years, if I take a bolt out, I clean the threat on a wire wheel or wire brush and apply anti seize before refitting it. Many years later when I go to undo them, they come out really easy, You can use the SS nylock nuts on 8.8, I would run the nut on an old bolt first to de-bur it a little and then use anti seize.
So, it could be wise to a run tap/die through bolt/nut to clear debris and high spots before usage ?. Or wire brush wheel to polish bolt threads ?......and then the anti-seize compound lol.
Thanks for the info. I'm guessing I wouldn't use an anti-seize solution with say blue loc-tite, .....(if I ever had to get back in there). Old motorcycle vibrates parts loose from time to time.
Just curious, would a drop of oil or grease work about the same at least for installing the nut, maybe not as effective for removing it, might require another drop of oil?
WOULD be nice if you did a video on GALLING STAINLESS STEEL PIPE THREADS. GALLING HAPPENS IN MAINLY STAINLESS STEEL, ALUMINUM, AND TITANIUM METALS. They are the most prevalent problem children of metal. Nice video too.
Vasoline (petroleum jelly) can work on stainless-stainless also. Actually had some high temp/pressure flanges that needed lots of torque and the design engineer called for it. It wasn't 100% foolproof as the mechanics love impacts.
so, galling is basically when the bolt and nut are not properly made, right? not properly matching each other, right? if they do match (no extra wrong friction) then no galling, right? thank you very much!
It's not necessarily that the fasteners aren't properly made or don't match, it's simply the nature of the materials and process. The imperfections of manufacturing increase the friction when installing the fastener, making the problem more likely. But, even if there were no imperfections if there was enough heat caused by friction is would still gall. That's why it's common for nylon insert lock nuts to gall due to the added friction from the insert. For more information and details on the galling process, visit our page on the matter: www.albanycountyfasteners.com/Thread-Galling-and-Fastener-Seizing-s/1248.htm As a best practice, we always recommend using an anti-seize solution such as MRO: www.albanycountyfasteners.com/anti-seize-lubricant/949.htm
@@AlbanyCountyFasteners Have you heard or used a product called Duroc? I am looking into how to avoid galling, and saw a video with what i think they called duroc used over the fasteners. It looks like they sprayed a light coat of paint over the bolt.
didn't take this advice and bound the left hand thread bolt to my grinder shaft. when I finally got it off there was no thread left on the shaft and only half thread in the bolt. neither were stainless but they both seemed hardened. there was a lot of squealing and smoking when it came off!
I generally recommend food grade when temperatures aren't an issue. The animals doing assembly work will spread it everywhere and if its nickle based you have a real issue.
With the use of the anti freeze, would it be ok to also use the battery impact? We have seen many situations where nylocks have been used on long threaded bolts and it takes like a ridiculous amount of time to turn by hand.
Hi RollingThunder! Anti-seize is designed to prevent galling on stainless steel fasteners although the addition of the nylon may still cause some issues at high speed. You could try finding a long bolt (at least the length of the ones you need to apply the nylocks to) and applying the anti-seize to the nylon lock nut and driving it a few times with the battery impact at different speeds. This will give you a feel for how fast you can run the impact without causing galling. We have not yet done a test on this and cannot say for sure if it will work or not. If you do attempt it before we can test it, please let us know how it works out so other users can benefit from your experiment!
You did not remove the Nylock all the way! Some Stainless Steel screws are just garbage and no anti seize snake oil is going to prevent them jamming. + consider the case when you need to have a real clean bolting (pharma products...)
If in doubt, threads a bit tight, I'll run a tap / die along the threads, use the correct wrench / torque wrench, plus suitable washers, suitable lubricant (if required) or Loctite. In 50+ years, I have never encountered Galling. Sorry if you find that a bit galling.
That tightening of threads you described probably is galling! Tightness while threading fasteners can only occur if either the fastener/nut was threaded improperly at the factory, the fastener was misaligned when fastened, or, as is often the case, galling. Nevertheless, thanks for the tip on dealing with tight threads! Not everyone is as lucky as you when it comes to galling.
This guy is talking about very tiny problems. Maybe a little anti seize on S.S. hardware but I have never had any of these problems. I think he is selling the anti seize junk.
I have used stainless bolts with nylock nuts for decades on my motor cycles, and never had a problem - but I had a big problem with a pair of Amal carburettors when I had the banjo bolts newly chromium plated.
On our beach houses down here we use 3/4" x 12" bolts ($20 each), once you get the nut on it ain't coming off. Even seen a few that weren't snugged down that could no longer be moved.
Galling is a very common and well known issue around the world with SS fasteners. Its not something this guy invented inorder to sell antisieze. I have had it happen numerous times personally. Usually with chinese stainless fasteners. I am an auto electrician and often customers will ask me to fit LED spotlights and lightbars onto their vehicles. These types of products almost always come included with SS fasteneres. And multiple times i have had it occur. I think the biggest thing is to do them up slow and easy. I have found if you use a cordless driver to do them up, they go fast, build friction heat, then gall. Effectively welding the nut to the bolt.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
I always use that 'silver' colored anti-seize coating on all of my spark plugs, all my wheel lug bolts/nuts, and all of my stainless steel fasteners. The 'silver' stuff is a blend of aluminum, copper and graphite lubricants.
Really interesting. Thanks for taking the time to make this video.
You're Welcome!
Outstanding demonstration. I always wondered why the stainless nut would get stuck after only a few turns. Makes perfect sense the way you explained it. Thanks Bob!
I had this galling happen on steel bolts into steel threads cut into a frame. are most steel bolts cold rolled too? that would explain a lot. I used 30wt oil thinking that would be sufficient....it wasnt.
Whether a thread is cut or roll formed, there should be no friction or resistance when fastening by hand like that if both nut AND bolt are within tolerances of the UN standard. But, yes there will be galling once fastened pressure starts and tork is applied.
What this video does is show something about galling but what it does not do in tell why galling really takes place. Metallurgists will tell you that two similar metals pushed together have a much stronger tendency to gall. Something soft like 304 stainless steel has a very strong tendency to gall. That even includes the washers used. If you want to reduce the tendency to gall use a hard and soft SS together - say a 304 SS bolt and a 301 SS Nut or washer. Sure the Anti-Seize solutions work but not the only way to do it.
Thanks for the input David!
Mixing grades of hard and soft stainless would have less of a tendency to gall, however it would not work for every application because each grade of stainless has its own unique properties in terms of corrosion resistance, magnetism, etc. One example would be a boat on salt water that has to have all 316 stainless fasteners to avoid rusting. But yes, there are quite a few tricks out there that will work (we even used to use Maalox before they stopped making it!).
I just run a die up each bolt to re-cut the thread an find no galling after that.
Starting working in a large slaughter house over 50 years ago. Between the kill floor salt filled hide cellar rendering room where they cooked the guts and cattle pens place was a nightmare for galling rust & corrosion. We used never seeze on everything.
What would you do if the bolt needed to be torqued? Most bolt specifications on motorcycles are based on dry threads, whereas using anti-seize would alter the final torque.
There are charts that give you torque values for dry conditions as well as for using different lubricants.
@@cvs570 Are you able to post a link?
reduce torque values by 20-25%.
The main problem we are experiencing is the Quality of metal being used . Rubbish Chinese bolts, nuts and washers.
Sold as high Quality for high prices. That's the problem. You are been shafted.
so any anti seize is ok with stainless? or are just those 4 are ok with stainless (aluminum not ok)?
Correct!
@@AlbanyCountyFasteners seriously? i asked 2 completely different questions.
Correct to both.
@@AlbanyCountyFasteners it cant be both. one question asked if any anti seize would be ok (including aluminum) and the other question asked if just those 4 are ok (excluding aluminum). the answer to both cant be yes.
Can this be used instead of a thread locker?
Great information. I learned a lot. Thank You!
Is there like a book with all types of fasteners and there applications I can get. ("Bit of a stretch")
There is! It's called the Fastener Black Book. It's a small book containing all manner of fastener related information from types and materials, to finishes and measuring standards, to application uses and mechanical properties. We use it around the office all the time and It's very helpful. You can find it here: amzn.to/2Js2mCp
Albany County Fasteners thank you so much!
@@kagomokone2255 If there is no pirated ebook, then it's not worth it imho.
Any of these that are useful for studs that undergo high current?
Would tread locker act the same?
Information I could have used YESTERDAY! ;)
I didn't even know the word galling until Saturday. Then I tried to take the threaded caps off an aluminium sausage stuffer (we had been butchering a pig), and I ended up learning a hell of a lot about it. Fortunately one of the people helping with the butchering was a mechanical fitter, so after a lot of hitting the stuffer with a hammer and heating it with boiling water we managed to get it apart. He gave me a bit of advice for the future though - "Don't ever buy anything made in Poland: you'll regret it."
Glad to see that there's food-grade anti-seize. Next time I'll use it (or buy a better sausage stuffer).
That's some fun advice! Well, here's hoping next time around the anti-seize can help you out with that. Or the better sausage stuffer. Whichever you go with!
Good video about why stuck nuts on stainless, except no info on removing?
Hi for Brake disc and pad, should we use anti seize or copper grease? thanks.
We recommend anti-seize.
I'd imagine you don't want any lubrication on your brake pads or rotors
@@lucifchristoBetween back of brake pad and calipér.
Thank you for this video. I am trying to secure a metal rack on my bike frame. The bike frame is made out of alloy; I made the mistake of using SS bolts and nylon lock nuts and experienced galling. Had to drill both bolts out and damaged some threads in the bike frame. I'm think of using 8.8 or 10.9 grade bolts instead now to avoid galling and seizing. Would it be OK to use nylon SS lock nuts or just plain SS nuts with the 8.8 or 10.9 bolts through the alloy bike frame? Anti-seize recommended still? If so, what type?
It's a shame no one replied to you.
This is a bit late but yes, anti seize is recommended. You can use either a types.
I have worked on my own vehicles for over forty years, if I take a bolt out, I clean the threat on a wire wheel or wire brush and apply anti seize before refitting it.
Many years later when I go to undo them, they come out really easy,
You can use the SS nylock nuts on 8.8, I would run the nut on an old bolt first to de-bur it a little and then use anti seize.
So, it could be wise to a run tap/die through bolt/nut to clear debris and high spots before usage ?. Or wire brush wheel to polish bolt threads ?......and then the anti-seize compound lol.
does it occur if only one, nut or screw is stainless and other is mild?
As far as I know, it will only happen if the bolt AND the nut are both stainless steel.
I've had good luck using PB Blaster.
Can galling happen when dissimilar metals are contacting each other for a long time?
Yes.
Thank you! Super informative
Very helpful. Thanks for explaining.
Thanks for the info.
I'm guessing I wouldn't use an anti-seize solution with say blue loc-tite, .....(if I ever had to get back in there). Old motorcycle vibrates parts loose from time to time.
Blue Loc-tite should not vibrate loose. However, you can remove it should you have too. Thanks for watching my videos.
Just curious, would a drop of oil or grease work about the same at least for installing the nut, maybe not as effective for removing it, might require another drop of oil?
That might work but we don't recommend it. Anti-seize is made specifically for the purpose.
WOULD be nice if you did a video on GALLING STAINLESS STEEL PIPE THREADS. GALLING HAPPENS IN MAINLY STAINLESS STEEL, ALUMINUM, AND TITANIUM METALS. They are the most prevalent problem children of metal. Nice video too.
BREAK YOUR CAPS LOCK BUTTON
@@Adam-zw1ck ADAM, WHY ???
i feel like there could be a fastiner that uses galling to its advantage to become permanent once installed. like a rotary rivet
Anyone else get excited when the 4th bottle of anti-seize had a higher temperature than the 3rd?
Great info, thanks 😎🛠️😎🛠️😎
Grand information
Thank you for your feedback
Would have been cool to see what you were doing with your hands and the bolts / nuts they were holding.
5:12 I have never had a nylon nut create gallng. This video does not make sense. I have installed over 10000 screws without galling.
i use A2 AISI bolts and nuts M8x1.25 on exhaust and i do not have that problems
what about using SS A2 bolts on cast iron?
It could work, but we wouldn't recommend it. It's never a good idea to mix 2 dissimilar materials together.
@@AlbanyCountyFasteners I thought it was a smart idea to change bolts on mini lathe to stainless steel, you say it not? Better black oxide bolts?
Make sure to reduce torque values 30% from lightly oiled specs since this is considered heavily lubricated.
I have found that any type of lubricant will work and you just need a drop, sure a good antiseize is prefered.
My problem is also stainless fasteners on aluminum.
Vasoline (petroleum jelly) can work on stainless-stainless also. Actually had some high temp/pressure flanges that needed lots of torque and the design engineer called for it. It wasn't 100% foolproof as the mechanics love impacts.
Can you get it off, after it is seized
Not easily. In most cases, it's not worth the effort either. Most people cut off the end and replace the bolt.
so, galling is basically when the bolt and nut are not properly made, right? not properly matching each other, right? if they do match (no extra wrong friction) then no galling, right? thank you very much!
It's not necessarily that the fasteners aren't properly made or don't match, it's simply the nature of the materials and process. The imperfections of manufacturing increase the friction when installing the fastener, making the problem more likely. But, even if there were no imperfections if there was enough heat caused by friction is would still gall. That's why it's common for nylon insert lock nuts to gall due to the added friction from the insert. For more information and details on the galling process, visit our page on the matter: www.albanycountyfasteners.com/Thread-Galling-and-Fastener-Seizing-s/1248.htm
As a best practice, we always recommend using an anti-seize solution such as MRO: www.albanycountyfasteners.com/anti-seize-lubricant/949.htm
@@AlbanyCountyFasteners
Have you heard or used a product called Duroc? I am looking into how to avoid galling, and saw a video with what i think they called duroc used over the fasteners. It looks like they sprayed a light coat of paint over the bolt.
If it's too tight going in, always back off and use lube!
Thank you for the feedback!
didn't take this advice and bound the left hand thread bolt to my grinder shaft. when I finally got it off there was no thread left on the shaft and only half thread in the bolt. neither were stainless but they both seemed hardened. there was a lot of squealing and smoking when it came off!
Thank you for the information provide in this video!
You're welcome! Thank you for your feedback.
I generally recommend food grade when temperatures aren't an issue. The animals doing assembly work will spread it everywhere and if its nickle based you have a real issue.
A fair point! Thank you for your feedback.
With the use of the anti freeze, would it be ok to also use the battery impact? We have seen many situations where nylocks have been used on long threaded bolts and it takes like a ridiculous amount of time to turn by hand.
Hi RollingThunder!
Anti-seize is designed to prevent galling on stainless steel fasteners although the addition of the nylon may still cause some issues at high speed. You could try finding a long bolt (at least the length of the ones you need to apply the nylocks to) and applying the anti-seize to the nylon lock nut and driving it a few times with the battery impact at different speeds. This will give you a feel for how fast you can run the impact without causing galling. We have not yet done a test on this and cannot say for sure if it will work or not.
If you do attempt it before we can test it, please let us know how it works out so other users can benefit from your experiment!
the nut was compressed by that thingy
Remember the old rule ‘I’ before ‘e’, except after ‘C’.
You did not remove the Nylock all the way! Some Stainless Steel screws are just garbage and no anti seize snake oil is going to prevent them jamming. + consider the case when you need to have a real clean bolting (pharma products...)
Thank you for your feedback.
It is an example of a very poor manufacturing technique. The threads simply do not match. "But it saves money..." Not excuse.
hmmm interesting 🤔🤔
I can treat you stainless steel bolts nuts and shafts and you wont have a problem with galling anymore 👌
Bench vise is too clean for anything to work
That vise was installed a week prior to the filming of this video. You can check out the installation here: ruclips.net/video/TVu1zAsiRTk/видео.html
If in doubt, threads a bit tight, I'll run a tap / die along the threads, use the correct wrench / torque wrench, plus suitable washers, suitable lubricant (if required) or Loctite. In 50+ years, I have never encountered Galling. Sorry if you find that a bit galling.
That tightening of threads you described probably is galling! Tightness while threading fasteners can only occur if either the fastener/nut was threaded improperly at the factory, the fastener was misaligned when fastened, or, as is often the case, galling. Nevertheless, thanks for the tip on dealing with tight threads! Not everyone is as lucky as you when it comes to galling.
It's pronounced like all, not like gull, you seagull you.
Galling is just nature's locktite.
This guy is talking about very tiny problems. Maybe a little anti seize on S.S. hardware but I have never had any of these problems. I think he is selling the anti seize junk.
Thank you for your feedback.
I have used stainless bolts with nylock nuts for decades on my motor cycles, and never had a problem - but I had a big problem with a pair of Amal carburettors when I had the banjo bolts newly chromium plated.
On our beach houses down here we use 3/4" x 12" bolts ($20 each), once you get the nut on it ain't coming off. Even seen a few that weren't snugged down that could no longer be moved.
Galling is a very common and well known issue around the world with SS fasteners. Its not something this guy invented inorder to sell antisieze.
I have had it happen numerous times personally. Usually with chinese stainless fasteners. I am an auto electrician and often customers will ask me to fit LED spotlights and lightbars onto their vehicles. These types of products almost always come included with SS fasteneres. And multiple times i have had it occur.
I think the biggest thing is to do them up slow and easy. I have found if you use a cordless driver to do them up, they go fast, build friction heat, then gall. Effectively welding the nut to the bolt.
its galling, your saying gulling
looks more like jamming an english bolt into a metric nut, fail.
Looks that way but its not.