Pilot Failed Landing After HUGE Mistake
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 25 июн 2024
- In aviation a lot of mistakes have to happen and even when one person makes a big mistake there are typically a chain of events that cause a major error. Watch how close it can get.
Be Part of the 74 Crew:
IG: / 74gear
Twitter: / 74gear
Facebook: / 74gear
Flight Simulator Gear I use:
Yoke: geni.us/SimYoke
Computer: geni.us/GamingComputer
Flight Gear I use:
Aviation Headset: geni.us/AviationHeadset
Backpack: geni.us/PilotBackpack
Traveling headset: geni.us/DHheadset
Video Gear I use:
Camera: geni.us/VideoCamera
Action Camera: geni.us/Actioncamera
Flight Audio Connector: geni.us/FlightAudio
ND Filter: geni.us/NDFilter
I may receive a commission on some of these links but it will not change the price you pay for the items.
Chapters:
0:00 - Language Barrier
02:54 - Cleared to Land
08:08 - Continue Approach
10:39 - All Together Now
12:44 - Going Around
![NOSFERATU - Official Teaser Trailer [HD] - Only In Theaters December 25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/b59rxDB_JRg/mqdefault.jpg)
And confirm you’re cleared to take off. The worst accident of all time (Tenerife) happened because they didn’t confirm they were clear.
Yep...and the KLM co-pilot and engineer accepted when the captain said that Pan Am was clear of the runway without confirmation. CRM is key.
Or the lax airport disaster of 1990, the Quincy disaster of 96, how about the linate airport one of 2001.
I'm not a pilot but I think I understand why they thought they were cleared as ATC first said "you are cleared to the Papa Beacon climb and maintain flight level nine zero right turn after take off"
Personally I would have thought that sounded like I was cleared, but I suppose they literally had to say "cleared for take off KLM 4805"
@@Fluffy-Fluffy They were being given ATC clearance for once they took off but that wasn't specific take off clearance itself. Captain Van Zanten was a star pilot for KLM and would've known that. The thought is because that was his 1st flight after teaching in the simulator for months where he played the roll of both pilot and ATC it may have affected his decisions. Evidence of this is the fact that he tried to take off even before they got that ATC clearance but was stopped by his First Officer.
In Denmark even our train drivers have to confirm clearances. Like when they stop for red and get permission to pass, they have to repeat everything the controller tells them or the train doesn't get a valid clearance to proceed - and the system won't let the train move past a signal without a valid clearance. Unfortunately planes don't have an safety system that can lock them in place till they have clearance, or stop them if they go too far, but it would have stopped a lot of airport related disasters over the years.
Hey Kelsey. My gf and I met in flight school recently we discovered you and your videos and now one nightly thing we do with my daughters is watch some of your videos, laugh, and explain things to the kids. Thank you for unintentionally providing us with another fantastic opportunity to get some wonderful family time at home.
That Spanish speaking controller WOW!!! I'm from Uruguay and speak Spanish fluently. I could not understand that controller so when you said Spanish, I had to slow down the video to see if I could understand if it was Spanish and it was. The speed was so fast even for me a native Uruguayan.
I've worked with lots of people from mexico, and even their english is frequently fast enough to give me trouble.
@@kenbrown2808 I find it hard to understand a Spanish speaker who speaks English with a strong accent and if they speak it fast, well I'm truly lost to understand with that, me of all people who should be able to understand it being Spanish but nope, it gets me every time. And vice Versa actually when and English speaking person speaks Spanish with a strong accent, that gets me too.
my wife is from Sonora Mexico and she says the people in Mexico City speak very fast and she sometimes has a hard time understanding them (she also says they tend to "sing" when they are speaking).
I'm not ATC or a pilot but I really enjoy listening in. It takes a LONG TIME with a lot of practice to be able to understand anything that's going on - especially at a really busy airport! It's almost a separate language, in my case: English vs. English ATC.
I'm Mexican and didn't understand, lol. I had to replay it
Humble Opinion: All official ATC communications should be in the same language, and using the same phrasing.
I don't particularly care which language the countries decide on or what the phrases are, but having a universal communication code clears all this up instantly.
It would be English as it is the most spoken language in the world and the countries with the biggest aviation industries- countries with money- have English as their national language.
@@MsJubjubbird Yes, I understand that the current regulation is that English is the official language of aviation. I am just saying that I would not care if it changes, as English has a lot of nuance in pronunciation and inconsistencies in the grammar rules. I don't know what a good alternative might be, but I would not object to having those in aviation explore a simpler and more consistent phrasing and language to use.
I wouldn’t care if they made up an aviation language as long as all pilots and ATC could understand 100% of what is going on. Just make comms part of the training.
@@angieoxford7092 what's wrong with Klingon?
@@MsJubjubbird tlhIngan tugh nuHmey wISuQchoHlaw'!
Most of my office speaks Spanish. Told my Spanish speaking coworkers I learned a new phrase and very loudly said “no mames! It means no way, right?” they exploded in laughter and said “well yes, but REALLY not appropriate to say at work!” Glad I just loudly said it for all to hear. 🤦🏻♀️ When HR calls I’ll forward them to you, Kelsey. We had a good laugh, though.
If you are interested in the whole context, "no mames" can't be exactly translated into english because in english the context is not used in that way.
The closest would be "no fucking way" (which, depending on the office, may not sound out of the ordinart) but literally it means "don't suck" (in the sexual way of a blowjob).
There is an entire set of slang terms in spanish related to sucking/blowjobs, and that's why none are appropriate for office use XD.
Hi. In Latvia, despite it is a little country in Europe, all air traffic communications are conducted in English.
Same in Sweden.
Same in Serbia, also a small country.
Same in Germany.
@@roichir7699 Haha actually to shorten this thread it's the same in almost every European country after two planes collided at CDG precisely as a result of a fuck up like the one above, and one of the crews involved did not speak French so no one 'broke the chain' as Kelsey said.
@@roichir7699 On smaller airstrips, there are some pilots who use German while flying VFR. But if someone speaks English on such a frequency, this is respected for safety.
However, for international and IFR traffic in general, everything is done in English like you said.
Kelsey, something worth mentioning here is that the tail height of the A380 is about 80 feet AGL. So if it had been Emirates inside the DT rather than Costa Rica, there would not have been nearly the same clearance between the two aircraft.
Good point! Only thing is I believe it was a 777-300ER Emirates flight not a A380, they were saying 'Heavy' and not 'Super' for an A380. Still the 777 has a decent tail height
@@galiyarr3694 AFAIK, only the 777 goes to Mexico, the only A380 was from Airfrance and stopped comming on the begining of the pandemic.
@@galiyarr3694 about 60 feet high.
@@JBNetwork Plannedemic
@@sharoncassell9358 Freaking crazy to see an A380 taxiing by a 737 or any small plane. It is like a tyrannasaurus rex next to a velociraptor. And a two seater GA plane looks like a bug. Get out of the A380's way.
As non-native English speaker, I would never say it's "American" of you to suggest everyone speak English. Having a universal language seems practically mandatory in your role and English just naturally is the closest thing we've got.
All good Americans learn English.
@@logan4215 unfortunately not all Americans are good though, lol
And yet English isn’t their official language (USA)
@@kordellcurl7559 we dont have an official language written into law, but all the laws are written in American English
I mean technically the vast majority of the world's population speaks Mandarin Chinese.
So if we're truly talking about an international language that would be the most likely candidate.
That's such a Western view to think that everyone should speak your language even when you're not even close to the dominant language.
Good for Japan. They see a problem, and go the easiest path to fix it. Thanks for the video, have a great day.
Not really the "easiest" path, but one that has the best outcome. Requiring all pilots to be proficient in English is more difficult.
Yes, I can appreciate that for student pilots they don't need the added stress of having to do the radio in a foreign language but I agree that it is safer for international airports to remove this anomaly in communications.
@@GoCoyote Is it really that difficult? If you can't learn English to a degree that enables you do communicate via radio you shouldn't be a commercial pilot. If you're at a small airport with basically no international traffic, sure, go ahead and mix the languages however you like and however you can make yourself understood. But English is quite an easy language - if you're unable to learn it, you're not suitable to fly imho.
@@diotough do you speak another language?
@@diotough
While I am a native English speaker, and cannot speak to others difficulty with learning English, I suspect that it is easier to find pilots if they only speak your native language, and harder to find bilingual pilots. But that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t do so, or that it is, or is not, significantly harder.
Best advice I ever got from an instructor “if there is any doubt, there is no doubt. Go around!”
Talking of landing... I was at a museum of flight here in Scotland a week ago. A retired pilot was trying to explain to me the quick calculation involved in landing. Speed, weight, wind direction, distance.... it went WAY over my head. It just reinforced how much respect I have for you guys and reminded me why I never chased it up as a career.
When I was a student pilot I used to do that and struggle with the landing. What really worked for me was my instructor saying "man you think too much. Stop thinking and start doing. Just fly the plane". I did that and it worked rightaway. Sometimes your brain does better if you dont think too much.
There's a trick to it. Once you know the trick it's a bit like riding a bike. The trick is no trick really they just get you to use your peripheral vision while focusing on the end of the runway while flying parallel to the ground.
Really all it is is just a series of steps. Simplistically, the approach - you practice that many times, then the flare - you practice that many times, then the touchdown - you practice that many times. Most people can land in under 20 hours and if you have any above average spacial awareness and depth perception about you at all then probably under 10 hours. If you can parallel park a car in a tight spot first pop then you'll probably have above average depth perception. First time I ever picked up a gun I looked at the target and knew I was going to hit it in the bullseye and I did. Some people have it some don't. If you don't have it fear not, repetition and perseverance gets you there. Nothing is hard when you know how.
@@ThePaulv12 I'm not talking about technique. I'm talking about the quick mathematical calculations they have to do for things like landing. He told me they have to calculate weight, distance, wind speed, wind direction, aircraft speed.... its maybe different in a bug smasher, I'll find out soon for myself with that. But he was talking about airliners when he explained all that
i got my student licence through my high school (couldn't follow up as discovered how expensive it is - and my eyesight was even then too bad for anything but private licence) - i really really enjoyed landings, and actually enjoyed cross-wind landings best. it kept my mind engaged and alert, i guess. the other thing i enjoyed was stall-recovery practise, but that's because that was the one time everything got quiet and i could just listen to the wind.
h'm, maybe also - looking at the similarities between stall-recovery practise and landings - when the power is at idle i had a feeling of floating and actually interacting with the air in flying; the closest i could get to feeling like it was ME actually flying rather than sitting in a mechanical object that was actually doing the flying.
@@elizabethhostetter1946 sounds like you'd really enjoy a glider. I took a few glider lessons while in the navy. Really gives you that silent, floating experience. Like sitting in a paper aeroplane
Watching &
Listening to Kelsey’s videos has taught me one thing….I could not be a pilot as 1- I couldn’t understand a lot of pilots & ATCers & 2- the majority of both talk too fast and are not clear. So I will sit back, continue to enjoy Kelsey’s videos and fly occasionally as a passenger.
There is a rule in EU requiring that all ATS communication with aircraft on airports, that serve more than 50 000 international IFR flights a year, must be in english. It comes from SERA.14015 that was made to help prevent things like runway incursion. There are some implementation details in EU countries (like allowing local language in case of emergency and such) but the core should be same in all EU countries.
Should be, is in theory, but is not seriously enforced. The French and Spain is particularly awful mess.
EU is great at being directed by corruption and lobbyism, but not so much at enforcing common sense. My pet peeve is exactly this. An accident will happen (again) due to this mess. Every pilot should be able to maintain situation awareness by understanding all that is going on the frequency.
@@andre-7423 Yea the EU is just all corruption. Not at all in Africa, South America ...
Not just the EU, almost all of Europe, bar for like Russia and a few more ex Soviet states.
I heard communication on Amsterdam Airport. Even though many pilots are Dutch, all communication is in English, except for an occasional 'Good morning/afternoon/night' en 'Goodbye' in Dutch.
sign language would solve this
Kelsey - can you comment/do a video on the recent Vueling aircraft fire? Apparently the pilot was first off the plane after the explosion, followed by all cabin crew except one brave attendant, who screamed in Spanish for all to get off the plane because of fire. She should be awarded a medal for heroism!
The pilot who took the initiative to go around is the one I'm clapping for. Sure, he could have landed, but he's seen the reports and videos, so taking the initiative to get the heck clear. That's the win in my perspective.
Kelsey, you are right. The most plausible scenario when ATC speaks english along the pilots when it's not their Native Language in their own airport(s) might be when an major accident would happen after everyone sees it and say ¡NO MAMES! on the spot.
I'm very grateful you showed this incident at Mexico City International Airport, since many people here aren't aware about what actually happened, even though there was a lot of fuss in the news.
Thank you Kelsey for this very clear and informative video. I live in Mexico City and this was huge news in a very hot political arena, but with your explanation finally I got a clear picture of what happened.
BTW, the pilot who recorded the incident (and the “no mames”) was fired by her airline for breaking sterile cabin rules. Let’s hope she successfully got her job back because she helped all Mexico understand the mess the incompetent authorities have created.
Did anything happen to the other woman who said "No Manches" in the same video? I hope not.
I was working on being an "International Man of Mystery" .... Airline pilot seems so tame.
Este incidente no tuvo absolutamente nada que ver con las autoridades, fue un error del ATC nada mas.
She may have helped provide some external visual context, context that could also have potentially come from things like airport security cameras as well, however breaking the cabin rules is a serious issue. If she was willing to do that on a whim it calls into question during what other times she has done that in the past.
@@123probando jajajajjaja no inventes… las autoridades que no entrenan ni pagan bien a los controladores, que no estructuran bien el espacio aereo, que no contratan suficientes controladores, y que los corren si se quejan… sí de acuerdo contigo… es culpa del pobre controlador….
Wow, thanks Kelsey for explaining this it seriously does give me more confidence to fly because there are so many people watching that’s great thank you
As a Spanish speaker, I believe the term “No mames!” Should become an official aviation term for when something unbelievable happens when you’re operating an aircraft
the girl who recorded the video and says no mames was fired, so I don't think so
it definitely doesn't mean "no way" though hehe
@@RobertoOrozco7 IDK if she was indeed fired or not but probably it wasn’t because she said “No mames” but rather that there was a lot of criticism on why an active crew member took out a phone and recorded the video
@@flecom5309 In this case, it does. As a Spanish speaker who learned the language in Mexico, I know the real meaning you are referencing, but in Mexican slang it can mean "No Way" as in a sense of surprise.
@@flecom5309 Its the equivalent of "WHAT THE FUCK". Aka a surprise for when someone makes a huge mistake. (example, a goal keeper misses a very easy ball bounce and it hits his own net for a goal.. every fan of the team the goalkeeper is will be "NO MAMES!!!".
In May of 1986, I was on a Southwest Airline flight out of Phoenix Sky Harbor. We started down the runway, then made an abrupt right turn off the runway. When I looked out my window, we had 10 seconds to get out of the way of a large aircraft landing on the same runway. The flight attendant gave a nervous announcement that we will try to take off again. That was the beginning of my flight anxiety. I travelled around the world and always felt sweaty palms on take offs and landings. In 1999, I did my own therapy, and cured my anxiety. I figure it was a 6pm flight departure, supper time, and maybe the ATC people were switching seats and just forgot the plane arriving or there was some communication failure. I love to fly and appreciate your videos, Kelsey.
Gah!
When you first explained this displaced threshold I thought you meant that lining up planes like this was standard.... which surprised me.... and I guess it's not, which is good. As a non. aviator though it took me until the final seconds of the video to understand exactly what had gone wrong. Maybe something at the beginning of the video detailing what this threshold is and how it is used, and that no plane should be lined up for takeoff while others are landing.
.... at least that's how I hope it works.
You have most of it :) The big issue here was that one airplane was cleared to land on the same runway at the same time another plane was lined up. Kelsey points out that the displaced threshold (which can be used for takeoff) might have saved the plane on the ground, had the other one not gone around. Telling an airplane to “lineup and wait” is for when ATC wants to get departures out as soon as possible.
@goffe I thought the exact same watching this!
I'm also not a pilot, and my line of thinking is this:
Assume that first (female) ATC *intended* the Emirates plane to do its final above the holding plane before touching down *and* that's not against the safety regulations.
Then while giving the clearances to land / line up those pilots (and everybody else listening) should have been informed about that intention!
The Emirates' pilot would then expect an aircraft at the end of the runway and those on the ground would expect a low fly-over, ready to hit the throttle as soon as the landing aircraft had left the runway.
@@ollep9142 I think you mean the two Volaris aircraft? Those were the ones on final approach, as heard in the recordings. The Emirates and Costa Rica airliners were the ones who were told to line up and wait.
And this would still result in a runway incursion. Even if a controller messed up and cleared you for a landing, like they did here, as PIC you shouldn’t accept that clearance and have the authority to deny it because it’s clearing you to do something that’s very much against the rules. The controller’s intentions would never be to have another airplane pass over you and land when you’re on the runway.
Yeah, the video made it sound like it was okay to take off and land when another plane was in the displaced threshold. I was confused.
Twenty-five years ago I flew VFR across Europe - including uncontrolled airfields.
Even though my French was reasonable I battled. In other countries I did not have a clue.
Overhead joining at uncontrolled airfields: I joined at 2 000 feet so that I could see others who would join at 1 500 feet. It saved me!
Under VFR it was always difficult to know where aircraft were when they made positon reports. One has to rely on signal strength.
I made some research for an accident in 1989 and both investigators (US ones) I spoke to noted the same, and could have been confusing especially for less experienced crews.
Making position reports in other languages than English sounds about twice as stupid as using them for ATC. Like, even though situational awareness is a thing, in a towered airport you're at least talking directly to someone who should be aware of everything that's going on, but if you're on an untowered airport making announcements, those are a "to whom it may concern" kind of thing. _You cannot know if all of the other pilots speak your language, unless you use the common language._ Broadcasting in a language only some pilots will understand is just reckless.
I honestly don't know how people can be so damn selfish to refuse to speak English, and even accuse anyone who asks them to of being an American. Like, I'm not American, I had to learn the common language too, and I still want you to speak English to me, not my native language, and not yours either. I've done my part, now go do yours or stay on the ground.
@@DeeSnow97 Well you are right theoretically but in my country, as in many others, it's not mandatory for a private pilot to speak English. Of course they will not be allowed to fly abroad but they can fly in their country, speaking their language and this is not a detail.
If you contact a tower in English in any country, no problem: you will get an answer in English (that's the meaning of English being the aviation international language) but if you fly out of controlled areas to untowered airfields you might indeed have a problem to be understood by other pilots: some will catch you, some others won't. It's not a matter of being selfish, it's a matter of language knowledge, that's it.
English as aviation international language doesn't mean that everybody has to speak English anywhere and at any time, it means that if you use English anywhere, you will get all necessary information, flight following and so on ... from ATC in English so that you won't be lost in the sky. But you can hear other pilots speaking their own language. If the procedures are correctly followed, it's not a big deal: it works everyday in many huge airports all over the world.
We could indeed consider that English should be mandatory at least in international airports so that in Mexico or in Paris everybody would speak English and everything would be solved. Fine but this means also that a private pilot could not land in an airport in his country if he doesn't speak English ... In other words to fly in a flying club you should have to learn English first and then learn to fly. Sorry but in my view it's unthinkable to not be allowed to speak your own language in your own country, it's a matter of principle otherwise it can be a Pandora box: what next? Driving a car: all road signs in English? Why not learning English at elementary school? And in the end why not forbiding native languages? It's endless.
So it might be embarrassing and regrettable in some cases, I understand, but it's the way it is.
Note that there is one video of Kelsea (pilots vs ATC) where you can hear a British Airways pilot and a New York controller going from a misunderstanding to another since they don't understand each other, both being "native English speakers"! So ...
In the same way there are a lot of language misunderstandings, especially in taxiing in international airports while everybody "speaks" English. As long as what is said is predictable because compliant to the expected procedure, everything's fine but as soon as there is something unusual, things go South very quickly, speaking English or not ...
@@DeeSnow97 I get where youre coming from, but its not necessarily that simple. Because most people flying into/out of small airfields somewhere are natives of the country, therefore they will communicate better in that language. So in that case its probably safer to stick to the native language that 95% of pilots there understand well rather than switch to english for the occasional foreigner that might come visit at some point.
Plus, just knowing the language isnt enough in aviation. If you want to make radio calls in english you need a radio operator license that allows you to do that (different exam) and you must pass the ICAO langauge test (either once, or every 4 years or so depending on which one you get). In short, it would provide just another entry barrier to general aviation which (in my opinion) could actually make it less safe.
When it comes to professional airline pilots though i completely agree, no clue why they dont communicate in english.
@@Dudeisthere Wait, radio tests and phraseology don't exist in other languages? That doesn't sounds safe either, those barriers exist to ensure people on frequency have a clear understanding of what everyone is talking about. Removing them won't make aviation more safe, it would have the opposite effect.
But you do have a point that two native speakers talking to each other in their native language will understand each other better. It's one hell of a tradeoff though, because it means a pilot who is not a native speaker won't be able to fly safely in that country. I think creating that situation "on principle" as the above commenter suggests is wildly xenophobic and has no place in aviation, but if we're talking safety it does make sense, although there does need to be a fallback in case you do have a non-native pilot because keeping 95% of pilots safe is not an acceptable standard.
I worked in Japan at a software development company. It was awesome that communication was going on in English (not always but at least periodically)
Glad there was some situational awareness and good decision making here. Great video!
This is the sliver of a difference between an incident being on your channel, and being on the Mayday Air Disaster channel.
Kelsey, you are a great human and you do a wonderful job. It's great that you take the time to explain everything to those of us who are not the 'best' flyers!
Female controller dropped the ball on her relief briefing to the male controller. We're also not allowed to LUAW on a runway that we've already given an aircraft a landing clearance. Thanks for all you do, Kelsey! Giving lots of lessons learned to pilots and controllers alike.
Wow!
Thank you for the diagram of what happened. It made it very easy for me (a non-pilot) to understand what happened.
I think that all international, and especially commercial airports should be using English at all times. It is fine to use local language at the local airport, but I think it is really important for everyone to be on the same page at a busy airport and it is impossible for pilots to learn the languages of all their possible destination countries.
I'm happy to confirm that almost all of Europe (bar for like Russia and a few other former Soviet states) agree with you. Unfortunately they only decided to implement this rule after a collision at CDG.
i would even say every airport every pilot, should be just a standard for any flying, then people going commercial dont have to relearn and potentially mix up anything.
You do such a great job explaining situations. I appreciate your content.
As a mexican, I’m sad because things in MEX airport are kind of shitty right now.. but hearing Kelsey say “no mames” just made my day :)
Kelsey, Great video! I'm American and I speak fluent Spanish because I used live in Mexico. I had replay the communication between the pilots and the tower a few times because they were speaking fast and in aviation lingo. As an aviation geek and frequent flyer due to my love of travel, I want to say thanks for your videos. I also want to help along with your Spanish knowledge by pointing out that besides the "No Mames" in that video clip, you can hear another female pilot in that same plane say "No Manches" as well. Both expressions mean the same thing (No Way in this context), although No Mames is more vulgar. Both expressions are very Mexican. I thought I would point that out to you in case you every hear "No Manches" while flying through Mexican airspace. I hope that it will make your ears perk up while on the radio.
Im sure you are fluent. I speak a few languages and have met many people who think they are fluent and they aren't. I speak one of my non-native languages to the point that people over the phone cant tell that Im not a native but I'm still probably not fluent in that language. You give yourself too much credit.
It's great that the pilots were observant and were working together to avert a disaster. All to often pilots rely on the ATC for guidance, and that's when accidents occur.
I worked in the Semiconductor sector. One year I worked for Mitsubishi Electric and would fly into OSAKA to meet with engineering. I was a senior middle management. What I found in school they were taught English as we were trading friends. So Sr management always sent me and his main managers to lunch and we talked not only English with me inside but practiced how to say words. They did well and could talk to customers on their trips with me through the states.
I love how Kelsey says, "comin' up".
Language barriers are in all types of places. Doing construction, a fire started in a basement, and i was hollering to the spanish speaking people to clear out because of a fire, and they didnt understand.
You are very professional in your evaluation of aviation mishaps.
I was in the airline industry for 41 yesrs, and there is always something new I learn in your videos!
A typical example of the excellence in airmanship that happens every day--on both ends of the radio. Simple situational awareness helps avoid mishaps well ahead of time. Task saturation in the tower and in the cockpit are a perennial challenge, and both pilots and controllers must work as a team to keep things safe. The 'Swiss Cheese Model' is a real problem, and all it takes is one person making a simple correction to avert a possible disaster. Please keep making these outstanding videos, Kelsey. You are saving lives by doing so.
Kelsey I really enjoy watching your videos I am not a pilot and I really don't travel much but I do enjoy the information you provide. Some of the info you give us can be used in our everyday life like driving ... I look forward to getting caught up on some of your past videos and seeing what you post in the future and I just wanted to take a minute to say thank you for explaining a lot of various things and situations in the airline industry.
⬆️Thanks for taking your time through my videos kindly Message 💬above to receive gifts.🎁
Always a pleasure to watch your videos. I wonder if you ever get any videos from the tower when situations like this happen?
Best video that I've seen from you. Explained it in layman's language and analysis was perfect.
I really appreciate watching these videos and learning from just a passenger aspect. Thank you.
You're such a good teacher/presenter. I listen at work and then I watch later on. So I have to give myself little spoiler alerts ⚠️ When I think of the responsibility of being a pilot or ATC, it makes me glad I'm just an artist.
I am an artist and my father was the pilot, 40yrs. He was responsible.
I have huge trouble finding responsible men. I thought all were… = 2 divorces…
@@maryblue75 sorry to hear that. My dad was a pilot too. I'm lucky, I've managed to never officially marry 😉
@@maryblue75 Some professions just don't mesh with marriage. I think the divorce rate is higher with stress-rich professions. Front liners.
Great video! I just passed my stage check to get signed off for solo cross country flying! The SA thing is huge, whether you are on approach or waiting to take off, or transiting airspace, or whatever. Great reminders in this video. Thanks Kelsey!!!
I've been involved with aircraft from the age of 14 (I'm now in my mid 70s) -- but I have learned a lot from your videos even so -- thank you for taking time and trouble to make these.
Thanks for doing this one. When I first heard about this incident I instantly wondered how you’d feel about it since you’ve stressed situational awareness of other aircraft.
As a Spaniard, I couldn't agree more with you. I like listening to ATC and I don't like it when I hear them talking in Spanish. Both pilots and controllers have a high level of English; there's no reason to use Spanish.
I did some of my flight training at Cherbourg in France. The ATC always spoke French to everyone except me who didn't understand a word. Just what you need as a student trying to do your first solo!
@@LinkinVerbz44 Typical French response. Honestly, please get over yourselves, the world begs you.
@@LinkinVerbz44 Duh! Yes but "la plume de ma tante" isn't a lot of help when you're talking to ATC! And I don't recall being taught the French for "descending deadside", "downwind", "final to land" etc or any of the other useful little things that might enable me to envisage the other traffic in the circuit! And as if doing your first solo isn't stressful enough without having to try and remember schoolboy French learnt 30 year earlier.
Love the content! Thank you, Kelsey!
This was an awesome vid. No viral debreef bullshit, no holywood debunk, just plain old Kelsey's expertise.
Ironically, the province of Quebec was furious when Paris airports were requesting pilots use English during ATC comms for safety's sake. Quebec sent a delegation to Paris to argue that using different languages has never caused an incident. Look up the story by searching "France's plane English plain wrong: Quebec".
Language wasn't the probem here, was the over saturation on this airport, and a political sabotage against the new airport cuse it's federal governemnt's (politicians vs bussinesmen)... yes there's a bigger airport, after this some mexican airlines that refused to use the new airport moved some regional flights to the new one... the problem is deeper than this...
The controller and his boss where fired BTW
God my ancestors embarrass the fuck out of me sometimes..
What's doubly ironic is that ICAO, the international organization that promulgated the English-as-the-official-language requirement, is headquartered in Montreal.
The stupidly funny but not actually funny at all thing is the reason why Paris airports and almost all international airports in Europe have to use English is because of a crash that happened at Paris Charles de Gaulle Airport precisely because a use of different language prevented the pilots from having proper situational awareness to avoid it. Those delegates were absolute knobs.
Very on-brand for Quebec.
Love this series!
Always so excited to see a new post from Kelsey! He’s the best!
Your videos are always great, but this one is a magnificent piece of information, clear, concise, technical, and still entertaining, these should be considered standards for all flight instructors. Discussing incidents and making intelligent conclusions is one of the best ways to keep aviation safe and evolving.
In 1976, operations in Quebec city airport was halted for 9 days by a language war - ATC wanted French for ground to air communications. The argument was over "situation awareness"!
Kelsey, I kinda miss when you would tell where you were in the world and get a shot of your view!
He mentioned in another video that he's no longer allowed to do so due to safety concerns.
Kelsey, thank you so much for your awesome videos.
Kelsey, by golly, this video is ONE of your BEST! Kudos!
Situational awareness is absolutely a necessity to maintain the safety of all… With all the safeguards occasionally, multiple mistakes get made and a catastrophe occurs. IMHO … there are no accidents only mistakes …
Man, i flew today back from my holiday. After watching your videos, this was the first time , after years of anxious flights, I was so relaxed!! Thank you for all this videos! Love from The Netherlands!
Ik heb jaren niet gevlogen. Vorig jaar september was de eerste vlucht in misschien 15 jaar. Door tijdens de lockdowns heel veel vliegvideo's te kijken, en er veel van te leren, kan ik nu elke procedure in de cockpit in gedachten meebeleven. En kan ik zelfs - zonder formele training - in theorie helpen een vliegtuig aan de grond te zetten.
I just visited Amsterdam last week, such a beautiful city! On the flight there from San Francisco, I ended up filming a go around when one 777 got a bit too close behind another during landing, the 1st one didn't have time to taxi off the runway, so they did a go around for safety.
AFAIK in Portugal ATC is done in English whenever there is an internacional aircraft in the frequency.
At least it used to be. My father was a pilot (fighter and latter civilian) and once I questioned him why he talked to ATC on a local club field in Portuguese and then in English to Lisbon (LPPT/LPPC) he told me about the above rule.
For Japan and Korea, aviation is in English also to help break down the power dynamic. Safety requires junior pilots to sometimes challenge senior pilots, and in cultures with high power distance, speaking English helps get out of that cultural mindset.
Hiya Kelsey. How about doing a top 10 of your favourite airports you fly to and the reasons why..would be interesting. Another great video..
I agree it would be interesting to know which airports are kelseys favorites, but if any given airports are not in his top ten they might be somewhat offended or wonder WHY Kelsey didn't have them in his top ten. But I would find it interesting too.
Depends on quality of breakfast buffets in the local crew hotels.
Agreed - Japan sets the example.
Always amazed at the opposite in Hong Kong though.
I've watched most of your videos and this one is the best so far. The diagrams are very helpful.
I wasn't surprised to hear this was Mexico City. That airport is one of the more sketchy Airports to land in. They've had several incidents in resent years
Love your vids, my cuz was a fail in school here in the UK- went to the US and is now a four ring captain- just shows what tenacity and the will to achieve can produce: just Don't give up on your ambitions just because society says so. You can be whatevwr you want- go for it kids- the world is there for you.
Nothing wrong with a "re-take" or "do-over"... It's training, and that's what it's for, to be SURE you actually KNOW what you're doing before lives are on the line in your responsibilities. Whether your cuz' needed more training and got it from UK or US doesn't especially matter. Some folks just don't catch everything and "make it click" the first time around. I've been through quite a few courses where I BOMBED the exam' and maybe a day or two later, I "got it"... Some of those courses let me come back in and re-take the exam's and some required I go through the whole course again... That's life...
In any case, the bottom line is that your cuz' just didn't quit... no giving up... no backing down. Maybe take a break and start over, but not "quit" outright. Good... ;o)
Hey Kelsy, Love your content, I would like to know what you think about boing ending production of the 727s and how they are slowly phased out of aviation due to the demand declining.
Very very well explained... thanks for your videos, they are always fun and informative. Cheers!
You know flying is safer then driving and examples like this tells you why. ATC and Pilots of all airlines and airports look out for one another and in this case it kept this one plane from landing on top of another so good job everyone.
Driving would be safer if you had less traffic, and had controllers monitoring the traffic and you had to seek approval before doing stuff. Plus if getting a driving license was as hard as a pilot license; with all this, driving would be really safe.
@@Liggliluff True because with todays cars and with new technology in computers in cars trucks in name it that dealers can actually track your car and you don’t know it. You see if someone wants to drive with my car I can track it on my phone live so just think if I can track my own car as it’s going down the highway and wherever it’s at 24 seven dealers can do it as well eventually they’ll be able to track everybody in their movements all the time so don’t think it’s not happening right now because it is.
I agree Kelsey I listen to Switzerland quite often. They use English for all the landing and takeoffs they will only mention say have a good flight, or a good evening in the different Swiss dialects such as Swiss German, Italian, French, Romansh (I am not familiar with exact words) which is way different. They speak English really well at Zurich for sure, of course there are flights from major east coast cities not to mention Canada's English speaking provinces. I hope I didn't offend the Swiss people. Considering my wife is from Switzerland. 😁
Good evening in "Swiss"... ?!? I leave in Switzeland and never heard anybody speaking "Swiss". I guess you mean Swiss German if it is in Zurich. Otherwise we speak French, Italian and Romanish.
Which language do you mean by "Swiss"? There are several official languages in Switzerland, but there's no such thing as "Swiss."
Lol, was just going to ask WHICH Swiss language they meant, somebody beat me to it!
@@dondraper3871 Yes I should have clarified predominately Swiss German sometimes Italian and French. I don't know if I would recognize Romansh.
@@jjeherrera I should have clarified predominately Swiss German sometimes Italian and French. I don't know if I would recognize Romanish.
“No Mames indeed” LOL
Great episode Kelsey. This is really interesting and important stuff. Very cool.
You have to be the most well spoken person ever to describe these scenarios and outlining these scenarios
This was still presented in Mexico as a big deal, almost catastrophic that the ATC controller got fired!
Which one? If I understood it right, the lineup instruction was given before shift but landing clearance was given and confirmed after.
So the second controller made a (huge) mistake by giving landing clearance but the first one prepared the situation.
Giving the lineup instruction was the main issue. Flying planes cant just stop mid air but planes on ground can.
That's why planes on final approach should always have priority over planes waiting for departure regarding the exclusive resource called "runway".
It was over dramatized in mexican news due to the conflict between the cancelled private airport (NAIM) and the gov's new airport (AIFA), you know... political 'experts' saying this was due to airspace saturation (when no flights are scheduled at night on the newest airport).
@@Merilix2 You still never give landing clearance when there is a plane on the runway.
I honestly think noone of these planes should have been aligned.
@@CesarinPillinGaming Of course. But you are supposed to not give lineup clearance if there is a plane on short final. I wonder if the 2nd controller even was aware of this mistake of the first one. Perhaps this was lost during shift?
Crazy that they have different languages going on at the same time and everyone can't have good SA. This shouldn't be allowed.
It's not just aviation. English truly is the world's language. It's actually spoken by more people as a non native language than native speakers. English is even a compulsory subject for school children to learn in a lot of countries.
On a recent flight from San Francisco to Amsterdam on a 787, I was filming our takeoff with my phone out the right side of the craft looking at the bay, and as we were waiting short of 28L for takeoff, I caught one 777 landing on 28R, and then shortly after, another 777 powered up and went around. Friends found the ATC call and the flight track, and what happened was that the tower told the first 777 to hurry up and turn off on a taxiway as soon as they could, but when it took too long, they called for the go around by the 2nd plane. Going by the video, there was about 26 seconds of separation between them. As you say, Kelsey, never harm in just going around for safety if everybody isn't 100% sure about the situation.
OMG!!!
26 seconds isn't that bad though, is it? When Heathrow was pre-COVID, they did 30-second turn-around landings/take-offs.
What are the repercussions for ATC making a mistake like this? What number do the pilots give them?
It will vary by agency, but speaking from my career...
In ATC when there is a loss of separation or an incident that the controller missed and no positive control was applied, the controller will be relieved from the position ASAP and then a playback of the video and audio will be pulled up to investigate.
Depending on the severity from there, the controller may have an evaluation of their controlling abilities/practices to determine if it was a one time mistake or if a training deficiency exists. On the more severe end where a major separation loss occurs, the controller will have their ratings suspended and be re-entered into training and work only with a trainer plugged in with them until they are re-certified.
The reality of the situation is that on a long enough timeline, a mistake is almost certain to happen and the saying is that there are two types of controllers: those who have lost their ratings, and those who should have [at some point].
That might sound disconcerting but remember that our separation standards are measured in miles for the most part and a separation bust for us does not necessarily mean a near miss for pilots
Lol, I'd love for the pilot to say, let me know when you have a pen and paper I have a number for you to call...
@JG It did, over a year before, a pre-eval showed no improvement, and they confirmed no upgrade... things have gotten worse with corrupt officials and ignorants running airspace in CDMX
This was a huge scandal in Mexico. Apparently there have been major safety concerns regarding the Mexico City airspace for some time now. After this incident, the director of airspace navigation resigned. Mentour pilot has a video about it on his second channel, I'd recommend watching it.
Hi Kelsey, thank you so much for this video. It makes everything so much clearer. I have no idea about Spanish! I went to flying school which was in rural England. When I did my first flight into a (small) international airport I found that there was so much radio traffic going on that it was very disconcerting. I got used to it over time, but if I’d got to use a different language, well, goodness knows what I’d have thought - scrambled egg for a brain I reckon! Keep going Kelsey - I love 74 gear!
Great explanation! Thanks!
Thanks once again Kelsey. This happen to me while flying IFR to Montreal YUL. As we were approaching this international airport, I am especially concerned with situational awareness. I try to make a mental note of where all aircraft are coming into the airport. However, the ATC controllers were speaking and issuing orders to other aircraft on this busy day and I don’t speak a word of French. I felt very vulnerable because I know ATC are humans subject to error (as I am). I was forced to take their word that I was okay and when I started my approach, although they spoke English to me, I had no idea who was on runway or crossing and how much separation I had on approach. Everything worked out. It was my first International flight.
⬆️Thanks for taking your time through my videos kindly Message 💬above to receive gifts.🎁
Used to fly out of Equatorial Guinea for a number of years, ATC there was always interesting. Spanish speaking ATC with very limited English, and more often than not with zero ICAO training. Just kinda given the radio and told to not let anyone crash lol. They didn’t even know what the term “Mayday” meant. I found that out the hard way one day, but that’s a story for another time.
Then on days when the “airforce” was busy with training exercises, you had a Ukrainian officer in the tower as well, as the airforce was entirely staffed by Ukrainians. And those guys spoke no English. So three languages on the radio at once, none of which could understand the other.
Absolute gong show 🤦♂️
"No Mames indeed"
Kelseys Best Line in 2022 lmao
Oh you made my night.
Sounds endearing when you know the context.
This entire video was very well made. Good graphics and explanation. Great job
This shocked me!
I sort of assumed that international airports / pilots HAD to communicate in English!
I agree, Kelsey. One language for comms keeps everyone on the frequency in the loop. Just a hypothetical question: What is the protocol for U.S. domestic airlines if one or both pilots is fluent in another language (besides English) if they are flying in another country's airspace where English isn't the native language ? Are they allowed to speak the local language with the controllers or is it forbidden under FAA rules, company policy, or just professionally disrespectful to their fellow flight crew members if they aren't fluent in that language? Great video as always.
I don't know about the situation with both pilots fluent, but with only one pilot fluent it would be a gross violation of good CRM practice to do radio calls in a language in which the other pilot isn't fluent.
It's good for the pilots to know what's going on outside your aircraft, as shown here, but it's _absolutely vital_ to understand everything that's going on relating to your aircraft. We know that pilots (like all other humans) make errors, and one of the major reasons for always having two pilots in large passenger aircraft is that this massively reduces the chance a human error will go uncaught.
Great explanation & visual representation.
Another Awesome video!!! Keep em coming!!!
Outstanding episode! I've been US ATC for years (including in Japan), and this is unbelievable. It's amazing ICAO doesn't intervene and make countries stop this behavior. Outstanding graphics Kelsey! Keep up the great work.
Wouldn't a large airport like Mexico City have Airport Surveillance Radar that shows movement of aircraft along the various runways/taxiways? You'd think the clearance ATC is always scanning the airport radar to ensure there's no encroaching aircraft.
The airspace around Mexico City has been a bit chaotic, even before this incident, with several different groups raising safety concerns. In 2021, the FAA actually downgraded Mexico's air safety rating. Mentour pilot has a video about it on his second channel.
Great break down Kelsey, hoping to see you out here at PHNL sometime!
I might ride a plane to Mexico City one day to met my wife's family. I hope ATC steps their game up.
ALL educated Mexicans hope exactly the same... and hope for a better government too!
Omg something very similar happened to my flight at this very Airport! My flight did touch down but there was another plane landing still on the runway. Our plane touched down and immediately went back up and around it was very scary! It was morning time and weather was nice thank god our captain had great visibility he explained to us over on the speakers what happened. Im terrified to flight since then. I know this is a very busy international Airport but still this should not be happening at all.
You shouldnt be afraid to fly cuz of that.
The system worked. No one was hurt. Thats why the system is in place.
@@childofcascadia yeah i understand . I suffer from generalized anxiety since i was a child ( yes im diagnosed and take medication) and just the flying part makes me really nervous also my dad had past away the night before and i was on my way to his funeral so i thought i was going to die next. So I guess all of that combined was a very bad experience for me.
Oh, wow. That makes total sense and Im sorry that happened to you at such a traumatic point in your life.
I absolutely love your videos. Although I am still unable to get my pilot's license because of my injuries, I still love flying and dream someday I will be able to take controls again. Your videos are great training tools and very helpful.
2:00 JAPAN! The most civilized country on the planet. ❤
Hey there. Well first: the WX that day was terrible, ATC change runways and start to move all aircraft from Rwy 23 to 05. Second there is a EK on B2 making all necessary changes to come up with performance for taking of from rwy 05R. But the 777 from Ek, don’t let the tower controller see the Costarican Aircraft from the tower. The costarican was told to lineup and wait because there was 4 traffic holding between runways ( BA, UA, and two other Aircraft) the Costarrican wait for them 5 minutes in the runway. So , if you take into account there is a lot of what is going on. The WX is so bad that 3 aircraft’s minutes before made a missed approach do to strong winds. All of this things and controllers overworked well you can see the results.
Tenerife vibes.
@@starwarzchik112 Tenerife? 🤦🏻♂️
One aircraft, two aircraft.
@@starwarzchik112 😰
Completely agree what you said, Kelsey. In aviation world, everyone should speak English first. Although I'm not a native English speaker, but I'm willing to learn it to its best. I'm familiar with American accent and should speak like American most of the time, but sometimes I still don't understand other accents when they speak English. So I wonder do you sometimes still don't understand other accents like Japanese, Indian, or Singaporean... when they speak English???🤔
Yep. Its not so much the language tho. Its the ESL persons proficiency in English, unless the native English speaker is used to hearing that accent. Like for me, my own grandmother, my sister in law and my mother in law all are not native speakers. So, I am very used to hearing their accents and can understand someone who speaks in a French, Portuguese and Kannada accent, even if that accent is heavy. And where I grew up a whole lot of people are native Spanish speakers so thats another one thats easy. Japanese is generally easy to understand
But, if I encountered say a Russian with a heavy accent, Id have a huge amount of trouble understanding them. Heck, Ive run into people with very thick regional British/UK accents where I could only understand a couple words the person was saying. And they were speaking a form of English!