This insane 500$ Water Block allows 13900K Overclocking above 6 GHz
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- Опубликовано: 12 июн 2024
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Outro:
Dylan Sitts feat. HDBeenDope - For The Record (Dylan Sitts Remix)
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Samples used in this video:
- 13900K, ASUS Z790 Board, Alphacool Liquid, G.Skill 6800C34 memory
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Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
2:51 Hetzner
3:36 Cryo Cooler: old vs new
6:04 Delta² cooler
6:47 Problems with compatability?
7:30 The cooler in detail
8:37 Test system & mounting the cooler
11:29 Booting the test system
12:16 Software problems
13:14 "Cryo Management System"
14:54 Hack the System...
15:42 Cryo Mode
17:02 13900K: Temperatures & Cinebench
19:18 Gaming Benchmarks
20:31 Benchmark results
21:57 Summary/Conclusion
24:43 Outro 
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Love how the boxed cooler can become a pump if it believes in itself hard enough
The Little Boxed Cooler That Could!
@@MD2389 Underrated comment!!
Welcome to 2022. The fan identifies as a pump.
You dropped your crown, king
@@owenbar5055 I wish my GPU would identify as a 4090
I love how the shadow around the fan error window was HUGE.... like all the error windows were literally stacked on top of each other, casting a dark shadow on your desktop, which slowly lightened up as you closed more of them.
Its like your vision closing in when you pass out as the computer starts to die
And the amount of poligons on it explains why it runs so bad.
No it doesn't. GPUs can handle tens of millions of triangles. The overhead for windows is the abstraction, it's not the 2 triangles it takes to make them that makes them slow, it's the program they represent being run thousands of times that is slow, and maybe the windows graphics API also struggles, but in terms of raw compute the amount of polygons in a fork bombed 2D desktop scenario does not explain the performance issues. @@TheCustomFHD
This man is wildin.
He's a professional loophole/bypass finder
👍 Great video
Would love to see this solution on the new am5 CPUs considering their interesting boost behaviour where it will basically continue boosting higher until it hits 95°C.
Man if this could go on AMD, that would be awesome
Agree. But it is too expensive. Intel made their 13600k to boost until they pass 100°C to have +5°C more auto-overclock head room than AMD. So on low perf Air cooling, Intel will get hotter and faster.
AMD CPUs still have a hard power cap. Once they hit that limit, they will not increase power further.
Still they have a power limit that they will throttle at.
it is better to delid the amd cpu and go for direct die cooling. you would get much better results than going with this.
LOVE seeing those Arctic fans being used in any capacity. I have an 11-fan rig and every single one of them is a P12 PWM. Total cost was around $55 USD for all the fans and it is quiet and efficient as hell.
agree, top tier performance, bargain price
2 out of 5 of my P12s have this weird whining. So they aren’t perfect.
@Kadd enjoyer noctua fans are 5x the price for 0.5% extra performance... you got scammed bruh
I only recommend two fans. Arctic P for regular people, and Noctua Industrials for insane people who don't care if their fans are running at 2000 or 3000rpm and don't want RGB.
@@holobolo1661 you pay 5x the price? sounds like you got scammed
Seeing this cpu block reminds me of my old Prescott P4 Vapochill LS setup. Crazy how we're back to those temps again.
This pushes me back to my Celeron 300A days, peltier and heatsink ripped from an electric cooler strapped to a slocketed 300A with dual ATX power supplies...
Yea the thing is great, but can you just make a video where you just pet your cat for like 30 minutes?
He can't put up KitTeh pr0n!
ToS violation!
I'm impressed with your ingenuity as always on how you approach and figure out solutions to challenges. This is pretty cool tech and nice to see how it can run, but I am much more impressed with your 13900k results with power limits, that is the route I will go now that you showed it.
I’m quite happy to watch you play with this hardware. It’s great to know what’s possible. For my part, even if I came up with the money for such a rig, I have no workloads to justify it. I expect the same is true for most of your viewers. That makes bleeding-edge video like this very worthwhile to watch.
There are no workloads that justify it.
You're still only getting a couple 100 extra Mhz out of the CPU for a 500$ pricetag.
If you need performance, that 500$ together with a slight toning down of the initial pricetag of a 13900, buys you extra hardware that provides direct performance without the cooling.
Like a whole second system.
With multithreading finally being a mainstream thing, practically every task can be split up among multiple systems.
So when it comes to workhorse systems, this is never worth it.
Even if you have this specific task where the time it takes to queue up a spread task takes longer than running it locally, your workflow either needs improvement or the few 100Mhz together with the 500$ pricetag isn't anywhere near a speedup enough to make much of a real difference.
But not everything has to have a clear price/performance advantage, buying something just for having it is perfectly OK.
And who knows, by people buying this, the usage of this kind of tech may seep into the general market improving performance across the board.
@@enlightendbel Plus the rest how much will the fans and rad cost. I would like to see what that can do with a 360mm rad.
modded fallout new vegas
@@rawhide_kobayashi That'll never run long enough without crashing to need this kind of cooling.
@@enlightendbel you are wrong, sir. fallout new vegas, in 2022, with applied care and curation, is a rock-solid experience more stable than your average AAA release.
the only problem is that it's still single thread limited.
I have been wanting to see a video on this block for months and finally
I was waiting so long for someone making a video about the new cryo. Finaly and thank you!
Nice to see your cat comes along to supervise things and make sure all runs kitty smooth and Pures like a kitten
my man, always surprising me with something I’m interested in
These power consumption graphs in the FPS graph are so insane helpful.
Thanks for that previous 13900k power limit video. I used it as a baseline to look at tweaking mine, I ended up sticking to 280w for a short PL2, and then down to 220w for PL1 if there's a sustained load, with a core clock offset of -0.040v. The 280w setting loses less than 4% performance but isn't hitting 100c any more, and the 220w setting is only about 8% less performance but practically halved power usage at load.
Tuning is key really. I recommend just finding the lowest voltage you can use while having the least amount of power consumption possible. I have my 13900KF OCed to 5.8Ghz P-Cores, 4.5 E-Cores, and 5.1Ghz cache, and DDR5 7600. My max power consumption in R23 is 260 watts peak after 30 minutes still scoring over 43,000. Let that sink in for a second. It’s crazy. Yes my chip is amazing for one. But still, the auto voltages are a bit heavy honestly. If I ram my CPU stock with auto voltages it’s like 311 watts in R23. It doesn’t make sense that I can overclock it with a fixed voltage and consume 50 less watts while
Running faster. Leave it stock set a fixed V-Core and start knocking off voltage slowly bit by bit. I can squeeze out a full bore 13900K performance inside of about 220+ watts. No need to take away frequency at all.
@@videocardzrule354 That's a huge result. This chip is insane, it can go down deep low power, stay in the mid-range, or with things like this video's cooler can get massive scores.
@@videocardzrule354 what kind of crazy ram is this
@@videocardzrule354 Curious what Voltage you run for 5.8ghz with the cache so high? Still tuning mine. But even 50x on cache is a no go with 5.8 all core and 4.5 E-core.
Running multiple peltier modules in an adjacent ("parallel") configuration like that is actually a really good idea, because TEC efficiency goes up (quite substantially in fact) as its load goes down (with a peak at 15-40% depending on your temperature delta). Running multiple higher-rated units in tandem at lighter load will result in less wasted power operating the TECs (and less excess heat to get rid of) with the only downside being the extra cost of buying more modules and the physical space they take up.
In fact, a TEC running at its optimum point at a temperature delta of say 10c can actually have a coefficient of performance over 3:1, comaparable with compressor-driven heat pumps like air conditioners. For something that achieves a CoP of 0.5:1 or worse in "typical" use-cases, this is quite notable!
Our box cooler now identifies as a pump... I love this channel!
Watching this after watching Linus's review on TEC's from 3 years ago really speaks volumes on how fast technology improves. Also love your videos dude!
I am spending $1000 on a Sub Zero beer chiller. It has four channels with four pumps. Each channel is capable of cooling up to 780 watts. It has an 8 gallon tank capacity for a Propylene Glycol mix. It will send solution out at minus 5C. This is for my X3D CPU and my 7900XT. Cheers.
Thanks for sharing your OC experience.
I used to have a beer chiller that I made that used nitrous oxide (laughing gas) cylinders (which I got easily from a dentist friend), want a COLD beer? pop it in, crack a whippet (... take the whippet too should you be inclined) and super cold beer was had in an instant :) I loved that thing but for the life of me I can't remember what ever happened to it, probably lost during a move :( (along with access to dentist friend.. so no reason to build another subsequently)
@@nrabbit300 a whippet is a small airgun sized nitrous cylinder with a valve.
Can it hang being run constantly? Most refrigeration solutions are designed to cool something down for a while and then cycle on only periodically to control temperatures. They're not usually designed to run flat-out all the time to cool an active heat source.
@@ganthrithor It can run 24/7 its a commercial unit. It takes as much juice as a mini-fridge and makes about the same noise. It will only run as long as I am on the computer.
Awesome video!
Great video! Thank You!
As of the problem of the CPU recognition, using Wireshark and sniffing USB (if not encrypted) a small C code can fake and inject the right CPU type. Unfortunately I dont have EK Tec on my hands yet to check it.
Enjoyed it, one question though when you mention the TEK of 210W can't cool the 300W CPU.
The way I understand it, the power consumption of a TEK is proportional to the deltaT across the element and not directly the heat load. So it's not just the capacity of the TEK power consumption, it's also related to the capacity of the heatsink to transfer the total load, not just TEK Power = Load Power. So if 210W can generate a delta T of 30°C across the TEK, and your goal is 15°C on the cold side, then as long as your waterblock can hold the hot side to
Otherwise, I really enjoy this video and it is very well made. Thank you for considering english speakers, especially even with a smaller demographic in your channels. I really enjoy your content, video ideas, and general attitude/commmentary in front of the camera!!!😅😁
You need to know the relative humidity to calculate dew point as well, so that brain box must have a hydrometer in there as well. Very slick!
Great vid. I purchased one and I'm happy with it Derbauer, do you know if they plan on releasing the software with Cryo enabled at post while booting up?? It's hard to OC in the bios and then end up blue screaning because of the Temps.
you should include the additional power consumption of the tec itself
how much power is the TEC pulling during these tests? Is this safe to run in cryo mode 24/7 on a workstation or is this just a fancy XOC thing to get the benchmarks?
Finally, a use for your stockpile of stock box coolers.
AlN ceramic TEC modules are usually used for power generation or for extreme mission critical cooling applications. Remember salvaging about 50 of them from a 48V solid state natural gas generator that was originally for backup power at a cell site. It made 48V at up to 120A iirc. The modules were a bit big for cpu cooling though they made awome stand alone water to air chillers.
beautiful video with lots of great information, im waiting on your updated 13900k software to make my purchase. waiting for the final software
I remember back in the day using a Peltier cooler ... it was amazing just turning it on and holding it between two fingers and one getting hot, and one cold, really really fast.
It was just the cooler, get it upside down when putting it in and your cpu was potentially toast as you applied the hot side !
I got some good results but my cooling was not good enough even in those days to take away the wattage of the cooler and the cpu. And it was a lot less watts in those days.
This is a good cooler !
Curious how the cryocooler would perform on the 7900x vs 7900x delidded. :)
What is the power consumption of the cooler itself? And what is the maximum load for the tec itself? Would it be overwhelmed under an all core load?
The fact that running the cryo cooler required a secondary 12900K system and a total of three Intel stock coolers made me chuckle quite a bit :'D
It's wild that an entire software package is required to enable a mode that could be a dipswitch on the controller. It adds a lot of bugs and complexity for extremely little gain.
Isn't the DT1 error code means, that the Delta(Δ) Temperature is not met the expected value? Maybe the controller modifies the PWM for the pump/fan to check their condition, and expects a Temp raise or something along the lines?
Hi, thanks for the video, do you have any news about software compatibility fix or anything? I really want to use this for my 13900k build, its for browsing and gaming only.
Seeing that you can run second system for the app, be cool to see test with amd cpu
I'm guessing the old design might actually have a thermometer for the hot side as well, but it doesn't need to be wired externally as the controller is directly on top of it already.
Thanks for the good reviews! Do you think you could include other benchmarks like Passmark? That would be interesting for people who are looking to improve their workbenches , not just for gaming :)
What about after a delid? I'd love to see that.
Great video!! What is that thing on the GPU power connector?
Could there be a possibility to improve by using liquid metal between the nickel plated cold plate and IHS? (if a contact frame also were used)
That's freaking great for a beast cpu like that, Der8auer!
Would love to see you try to make the "ultimate" peltier cooler, by having 2 water loops one cold and one hot,
allowing you to have more peltiers and either getting even more cooling or having each being at its most efficient point.
Cold loop: cpu water block, pump, and peltier cold side block.
the hardest part would be making a pair of custom water blocks for the peltiers.
hot side: peltier hot side block, pump and radiators.
if i am not mistaking Alex from ltt made something similar.
I think he did this in a past video. It doesn't work very well
Would it not be easier and much more efficient to use an off-the-shelf water chiller to cool the loop? LTT did a video with a bunch of peltiers as you describe, but that seemed more for the novelty.
@@BravoCharleses They also have a chiller cooling video, man, LTT got everything ahaha
@@BravoCharleses their setup was horrible, made with cheap peltiers, on chinese coolers and blocks.
but yes its still for the novelty than being a good cooling method
Interesting. Have you considered another test with some "liquid metal" instead of thermal paste as the CPU die/heatsink mating compound?
Tests elsewhere on YT have reported notable thermal improvements with this change alone. I wonder if perhaps "liquid metal" would have any positive/negative/neutral impact on power consumption/CPU performance bump ratio?
Liquid metal would be a very bad match for sub ambient cooling. Thermal grizzly actually gives a lower temp spec of 10°C minimum to use conductonaut.
The TEC cooler could solidify the liquid metal under some circumstances..
Sub ambient, high performance thermal paste is the way to go.
Ok this looks absolutely gorgeous. I don’t mind burning insane energy for a baller machine lol. Hope they sell enough that my next build 2-3 years down the line can be built around this ;)
Hi I love the way you approach making your content, I am thinking of my own cooling system and I am wondering if you have any thoughts on the temperature differential and humidity , to avoid condensation, any ideas how to make a controller? Unless you will sell me your old Peltier setup LOL
I ordered one of these. Hope that patch releases soon
I believe the first commercial CPU peltier cooler was used in the early 1990s to cool a PowerMac 8100 CPU. That design was short lived as the flaw was the formation of condensation. Apple's solution at the time was to swap out the peltier with a traditional heatsink and fan.
OOO I see You finally gotten proper size Radiator. Iw been using Phobya nova extreme for last 8 years or so :D
Quick question. Does the rubber boot have any issues installing if you are using the contact frame instead of the stock ILM?
Any improvements on the rubber gasket? I have the Z790 Extreme and contemplating purchase but I won't if there isnt a proper condensation solution in place
Thing about TEC I learned from astronomy is that they can freeze surrounding air to -40 and if this air dispates are the case it might cause frost and even freeze the coolant
Excellent
I have bought the cryo cooler, but unsure how the controls are working in general. When the fans and the pump is plugged into the system is that merely a safety feature for not burning the TEC or does the software let you control the pump and fan speed?
Furthermore, I have a temp header on the MOBO, which I'm planing on using as a secondary security measure, but not sure how to go about it?
What kind of controls would you recommend or what are you using?
nice video! loved it, i actually use an cooler master ml360 sub zero which use the tec technology, on an 9900k
The "we live in 2022 and you can be whatever you want to be" cracked me up! 🤣
Water chillers are available for under $400 which are more power efficient than peltier systems and can easily supply water at temperatures in the 0 C range or for more $s even lower. You may have to worry about condensation on the tubing, but a little insulation provides an easy fix. Adding a chiller to a loop does require a little DIY but is not a complicated build.
Just to make sure I am getting the setup: A 5000 Watt external cooler is used to cool a part that can generate 300 Watt of heat ?
I build my own pc's since the 2000's . and want to try my first watercooled pc with this waterblock. If a new version comes out of intel, can i still use this ? or do i need to buy a new block again ? and where can i get that 9 fan cooler grid thingy
Thanks 😎 🤙 🦅
Did you measure power draw? How is a 210W TEC getting sufficient power from a 150W 8 pin PCI-E connector?
Thank you for the video. I bought it but not yet installed. I think i will soon after watching your video !!!
This does seem like a really smart TEC implementation. With a couple more improvements (software, fitment) I'd be tempted to try one eventually.
Loved the brave little pump. 🤣
Der8aur, just curious, will you do a similar video regarding the Ryzen 9 7950X delidded? Personally I would like to know the best thermals as well as highest stable clocks with the extra thermal headroom.
This brings me back to cooling my Q6600 with a Cool-It peltier water cooler. TEC cooling back when CPUs were under 100W was fun but with the higher power consumption today I wouldn't risk it.
Would be nice to see this used for gpu cooling as well.
Will the Delta2 Tec scale with your current custom loop setup or will it have a ceiling? My custom loop cools 800W will this make any difference w/ the Delta2?
Skaliert der Delta2 Tec mit Ihrem aktuellen benutzerdefinierten Loop-Setup oder hat er eine Obergrenze?
I love your content, thx for taking the time to make it in English.
Very good cat video, liked.
brilliant~!
...and also RGB
15:04 love it mate, crazy times hey.
So you ran it without the pump and fan wires attached to the proper points?
Or that was just a test on the second pc?
It wasn’t bypassed in the final configuration?
Great video!
Temp on single core/light multi core load seems crazy, but what about heavy multicore load? Could the peltier handle a cinebench multicore load?
Thanks
You'd need even bigger radiator. Peltier doesn't do it's magic for free, it consumes a lot of energy - and that energy needs to go somewhere.
@@mirkokurac my question was different. I argue the fact that those peltiers could not handle a full load 13900k and therefore you are going to have worse performance than a standard waterblock. The inefficiency of a peltier system is another topic.
So the issue with the rubber block sealant on the underside of the cooler is the hot and cold wires are protruding outward and sit on top of the VRM heatsink which doesn't allow it to drop into place or flush with the motherboard, correct? This appears to be the issue with rubber block sealant on z790 boards as the 4 mounting screws do line up it appears for the z790? I could be wrong as I don't see a big difference between z690 and z790 as the mounting holes on the motherboards are the same I think. That said it looks like you could cut out a small section of that rubber block sealant on the top right corner, pull the cables toward the RAM slots and stuff the hot and cold lines underneath allowing the Delta 2 TEC to drop into place. Can anyone confirm?
Had similar issues with the last version, the software will go in to standby mode when it realizes the temperature and cpu load doesn't line up. I now run without the software after modifying and run 5, 7 or 12v straight to the tec. Tried many things to gain access and control via i2c etc and went as far as removing sensors until I realized how stupid it was to waste time when the software is not needed in my case. Fun fact, before I started modding mine a power stage caught on fire and scorched the top of the block
“Luckily we are loving in 2022 and you can be whatever you you want to be…whoever you want to be…and also our Intel boxed cooler identifies now as a pump.” 😂
sweet but how would the CPU handle City Skylines with 30 Mods, 2000 Assets, High sim settings TM:PE and a pop over 100,000 Cims
I think with even a fraction of that aggravation that you had to endure, I would just simply port a nozzle of a portable AC unit into a case. 17° C (~63° F) is in range of one of those portable units and as a side benefit it has enough cooling capacity to remove all the heat from both the PC and room.
It's heading into that direction....maybe like a little mini freezer dedicated condenser
humidity
@@sayacee5813 ACs remove humidity
@@sayacee5813 inside the case will be dry and cold, water will condense all over the outside though :)
@@sayacee5813 that's not how condensation forms. The concern would be the outside of the case if you over cooled it.
Condensation forms when warmer humid air contacts a cool surface. The only time you could get that condition in an AC'd PC case is if you over cooled the PC (say down to 35deg), and then shut off the AC and opened the case... then it would be like bringing a cold item inside in the winter. It would get a small amount of condensation
It doesn't happen in reverse (blowing chilled air inside).
Is the bottom of the block already sanded flat? I found a 200mhz gain on my old 2.4ghz Athlon x2 by sanding both CPU and cooler flat by using a window as my base for the wet-sandpaper (I maxed out at 3.5ghz on air stable enough to run 3Dmark and play games). I used gasoline instead of water when sanding down the CPU, as it evaporates afterwards, then cleaned up any remaining particles with coffee-filter since coffee-filters don't leave anything behind.
PS: with perfectly flat CPU and cooler the CPU will stick to the cooler all by itself because of molecular interactions, so no paste needed. Normally the CPU will stick out farther around the edges so as soon as you sand your CPU enough to take off the center writing you're golden.
What I do and have done for a while is I have the radiator outside, soldered the fans onto a few ethernet cat 6 S/FTP cables, and pump the liquid straight from the blocks and out.
But I really should delid the CPU, as that's my largest limitation, as well as a quite mid-tier motherboard. Never been able to thermal-throttle my GPU, have yet to shunt-mod it.
The components are quite aged by now though. But since ambient outside during winter is subzero, and during summer quite high, there's quite some variance. Thanks to very loud fans and the fact I only have two of them, I can power them from the mobo, set the fan curve appropriate to the temperature of the CPU and it's all fine.
But recently I pushed voltage up and now my CPU can sit at 99°C while my GPU is only at 20~30°C - both being loaded nearly to the limit. I hope delidding w/ LM will help better transfer heat from the CPU to the block.
But that's just one way to solve it. A very budget oriented one to get the most out of a unbalanced 2016-era setup.
Back when we were trying to oc another hot CPU, the dual-cored Pentium-D, I slapped a 100w pelt on top of a copper waterblock and cooled that with a Thermaltake SLK800.
The advantages being that it allowed the watercooling to function normally, did not require the peltier to be running all the time, and allowed a lower power tec to assist in cooling without running into that wattage cooling wall.
Others did similar things with pelts as inline waterchillers, which can be a simple as a second waterblock paired to a tec and cooled by a second watercooling/radiator setup or just large hsf/block of alluminium.
It's funny to remember that the Pentium-D was only like 130w and got all that bad press anyways.
Sounds very adventurous. What's a pelt though?
@@Ben-ld1qi it's that thing the waterblock in the vid is using for additional cooling
@@molochi thanks
I wonder if this cooler will work with sapphire rapids?
Will they need to redo the tec plate for that cpu? Since it looks like a quite large cpu?
Can't wait until those new xeons get released.
Always interesting.
15:03 der8auer you can't make jokes like that, i spit out my water through my nose haha.
Fun, interesting video on something I was not aware of existing.
Besides cats dropping things, they often have static electricity. At least in my experience. I like to see your cats in videos though.
A friend of mine use peltier cooler some 20 years ago... it was hooked up to a 200l reservoir outside hes house
With the control software running on the Alder Lake system, is there any way you could test the cryo cooler on zen 4 chip?
hello, i also upgraded to 13900k and have the cry cooler and it does not work, any eta on the software realese ?
cheers
i assume it need pump and fan signals mostly because it has profiles for those and want to control everything separately instead of using the motherboard profiles.
Hello. Does the 12th gen contact frame work for 13900k as well?
Its crazy to this that as much of a beast as this is, in leas than 2 years low end hardware will blow it away.
How much power does the cooler take? Was this covered?
@der8auer When will you test this with the KS proc?
15:02 Brilliant, you had me laughing so hard my cat came over to see what was going on...
😂😂
Perhaps DT1 stands for "Delta Temperature 1"? Comparing the cold side thermo couple temperature and the internal CPU temperature and coming up with an error if the difference is too big? Essentially detecting a bad thermal contact between the cooler and the CPU...
And since the software sees the CPU temperature of the miniITX board the error comes up periodically.
Just a theory.
Soooo... can the mounting hardware be modified for am5/am4???
i bought my CPU frame, Lapping kit and 13900k to play PUBG. I am going to run 1080 until i get a 4090. i think i am going to get 2- 360ml rads and this cooler. Ty again, love your videos!
I could never afford this stuff, so its great to see that it exists and what it is capable of... THANK YOU!
i used to run them on my dual celeron 400. i had to use a 55W element on a 20-25W CPU and it was held at +4c so you should have two times the power to the element then you expect to remove. so if you r aiming to a 300W load a 600-700W element is needed.. that will need to be something spesial as you will need more then one element. 4 should be the minimum i gues. and yes.. i was running a dual PSU setup as well.