How Nitty can you Play, Multiway?
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- Caller describes a hand where Bart says that he should play particularly nitty in a multiway pot. To submit your hand and be on the show email submissions@crushlivepoker.com
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Edited by - Anita Lai
1. How many people just fold A9hh on the flop?
2. If we get to the river at this price, what do we think of the Hero call?
3. What do we think about the selection from the UTG villain of running a triple barrel with specifically 88?
CrushlivePoker I think I fold pre-flop. If I’m still in the hand for the flop, I think I call and see if I hit an A or 9. But I’m definitely not calling the turn bet. At that point, if I’m getting bluffed by 88, I would say well played and move onto the next hand. I think it’s overall profitable to get out the way. On the river, for the price, I could probably convince myself that villain has enough missed flush draws and might make the crying call. But the triple barrel should does look strong. You just don’t see this line as a bluff much. That said, maybe it makes 88 a good bluffing candidate if you’ll take all the way. I certainly didn’t put the villain on the middling pair.
Rnt ft thy
Jeffrey Blend. Can we find enough mist flush draws on the river though. 12 combos of kk qq. 6 of aa and tt and 1 aj of spades for 19 combos. 3 to 1 so we need 6 or 7 combos of spades which dont contain a jack or make a straight and which will open utg. Ak, aq, at, kq. If we include qt or lower than we must also consider kj and qj. Maybe he would bet blufs more than some made hands, but still, I don’t think it is enough. Fun hand.
I would probably fold turn and feel stupid for getting in that position. Probably should fold flop, but dont think I would mostly.
1. I would fold pre
2. If I made it to the river, I would have folded to the third barrel.
3. I liked villain's line a lot. He folds out most nines. Just ran into a station.
UTG pro learned the golden rule -- don't bluff calling stations
Matt Dorfman just be extra selective ;)
Ehhh...if utg in fact WAS a pro...I mean... I'm a novice and even I know better than to run a big bluff immediately after sitting down and without first identifying who the calling stations, sticky guys etc...are.
@@bluedog424 Would any pro ever bet flop and turn multi way vs loose opponents on this board?
Dont bluff the calling station without knowing their range and you strongly making it very clear over time you know they are one.
@@karlseastrand7678 yeah....guys.....that was my whole point. You can't know who is doing what if you just sat down.
A lot of callers luck-box their way into a good result and then want to attribute the result to sound decision-making. It’s important to fight against confirmation bias and be cold-blooded when looking at our play if we want to get better. Years ago I made a horrible play with A/J on an Ace high flop and got someone to lay down A/K. It was objectively a mistake, but since it worked I thought I was a genius. That play ended up costing me thousands of dollars as I tried to make it again and again and it didn’t work.
I'm the caller - would it make any difference if I said that I would have played completely different if UTG was any of the other 7 guys at the table? I sent this hand in as an example of how live reads at a live game can help and the read I was getting from this guy was "I am so much better than all of you, I will run you over with my poker prowess and pressure you to fold just with my dominance" - and in the same way that I knew the 2 splashy players would fold because of their body language I just had a very strong feeling this guy was betting strong to elicit a fold and not for value. And besides, looking at it from the villain side, what hands is he betting like that? Not the pattern for a big pocket pair (except JJ maybe, but if he has JJ it means I don't have anything on that board so why bet so much?), more like flush draw with some combination of 2 spade broadway cards, and most combinations don't beat me.
Pedro Martins Definitely makes a difference although I got busted in a similar situation. I opened in early position with AQ offsuit and get three bet by a pro in the cutoff. I got it into my head that he knew I was a recreational player and was trying to push me around. I called and the flop was Q high. He ended up getting 3 streets of value with AA and stacking me. It’s kind of cooler, but I think I might have been able to get away from getting stacked if the villain had been one of the other players at the table. I just didn’t want to get pushed around and thought this guy was targeting me. I showed him.
Pedro Martins “Live reads?” Lol.
Jeffrey Blend Its wild and completely lol, that your initial comment is proven to be true by the guys response to your first comment.
@@pedromartins7747 A cocky new player to the table is not a poker read if u had no history with him to be able to tell what his cockiness meant. You were fortunate here. I'm surprised you've never seen a bigger-betting cocky player get good hands. Apparently, future bigger-betting cocky players will be getting all ur stacks when they receive good hands.
I don't think folding the flop is that nitty. Calling the turn is just spewey without a specific player read. You don't win at lower limit NLHE by making huge calls. Playing winning NLHE means you sometimes fold the winning hand.
The Pro went and reloaded and stayed their until the caller left.
He got up without a word and never came back
I'll go ahead and admit it. I'm folding pre.
Fuck that. I’m folding flop but not pre.
i folded this hand utg before and regretted it. thoughts?
@@RunescapeD1H U forget about all of the other times UTG that it would have gotten u in trouble. Think long-term buddy.
@@CD3V98 What happens when you flat call and get squeezed by one of the players left to act? It's a 3bet or fold imo. Especially if the other players behind you are half decent. I 'd probably just fold pre
Commonwealth Dank didnt say I would just flat call but there’s no merit to folding unless you are a nit. Depends on the table, I agree it’s a 3 bet or fold if you are at a solid table.
Guys like this will keep me from making large bluffs
Value bet them instead with KJss for three streets.. that's the counter exploit.
@@CrushlivePoker As per my comment above :-D
Someone who knows what they’re doing would check range on 975 multi way
I like the bluff with pocket 8s on that board/run out, just unfortunate for him he ran into a calling station. I think UTG could have played it better by betting less on the turn to allow room for a pot size bet on the river.
I honestly think I would have folded on the turn with a much smaller bet from villain. The very large bet made his line very strange - doesn't seem a place to do it if he has an overpair and if he had a set it makes it very unlikely that i will have anything on that board and he wouldn't want me to simply fold or to only call with the absolute nuts. I mean, in his position, if I had AJ I still wouldn't be betting almost pot...
Yeah the pot size turn bet screams draw when you break it down. I think this is where UTG screws up, as the smaller turn bet would do two good things for him:
1) allows room to shove river for pot (or more) giving you much worse odds to bluff catch
2) it is consistent with the sizing he would want to use with overpairs
I like the flop,turn bets but not sure about the river.He blocks 8T (if that calls pre)but that would probably raise turn so he does block 98,a non spade 88 would be best.Should he check and hope the flush draw just checks back or check and call hoping a flush bluffs?
"I beat a lot of the UTG range specially considering I have an ace in my hand." Got to love the fish logic when his ace blocks that part of the range that he does beat.
Lol I caught that too
0:15 my hair after aces get cracked.
Good episode. I think Bart is way too nitty here. On the other hand, it is hands like these that cost me money, so I strongly suspect that it is *me* who needs to watch this video a couple more times and possibly learn something.
This was a useful example for me. In general I MUCH prefer examples of BAD plays, for purposes of instruction. Thanks.
I’m folding flop unless villain is an aggro fish. I highly doubt villain is betting 3/4 pot into 4 players with air. It’s either nut flush draw or overpair. You also have 2 players left to act and this board smashes their range. You don’t beat any “of the UTG range” just because you have an A.
I know this video is from 2020 but wow. The fact that Hero is calling down this far with this logic against an UTG open amazes me. That means basically the villain can just take the same line with literally any value hand and get max value.
He tried to justify it but this is calling station behavior basically. The villain bet into 4 guys 2 of which are wild and Hero won't give up on the turn let alone the river. I guess if you got that far you can call but its a misplay either way.
It's safe to say that he got lucky.
Interesting hand!
Pre is probably a fold but only slightly losing. Turn is EZ fold unless you're against the laggiest of lagtards (with significant sample size, not just "live read").
Turn: Whens a scarecard not a scarecard-Phil galfond. If you call the turn you can expect that your going to face a tough decision on river where your going to make a hero call or tank fold.
Kind of a bad river because hero also now losing to As5s
Rec. players almost always call when a low card pairs on the river.
Rec players make more calls than telemarketers.
Jesus how is a call pre flop considered “OK” this is 3! Or fold all day
Don’t eat food or drink during vlog. Looks bad.
The real question is did the fish get another buyin...lol
Horrible bluff by villain against the station.
Fold pre
Slightly plus eV to call flop
Fold turn given hand started out multi-way
River, if you’ve come this way why fold now
Barreling off with 88 here is fps
Gto prob meant to check range on flop, if your playing exploit low stakes prob just stick to value only and some high equity draws
I think a pro or someone who knows what they are doing is much less likely to cbet that board than someone less experienced. If a pro cbet's that board multiway v me I probably snap fold the flop. Best case scenario is you are flipping v overs + FD but he is gonna blow me off on later streets. Only way you get to SD is w a turn 9, A or 4 straight. J turn is probably the worst tbh bc a lot of his FD add equity or turn top pair. Something did change on the river w the 5 pairing all his over pairs are now easy value shoves at this spr. Honestly in these soft low stakes games I think you could value shove JQss+, def KJ+.
Bart always looks like he just woke up from the best sleep of his life
Mr Meseeks More like from the worst sleep of his life lol
WTF factor in live play on full display
1. I call once thinking he will shut down on turn unless he can beat a nine and villain might even shut down with OPs on lots of scary turns so you can often see a cheap showdown or even consider turning yr hand into a bluff on particularly nasty run outs vs the right opponent. 2. vs a random unknown I dont think you give up much either way by calling or folding riv so it becomes almost irrelevant IMO. 3. one of the worst 3 barrels ever considering the flop texture, it is multi way vs loose opponents, the run out and that he has at least some show down value, albeit maybe not a ton the way the hand played. If you CB here you are prolly CBetting 100%!
9 is in so many ranges to try push ppl off, most low stakes games you aren't going to be able to bully the pot because it's loose change usually but he got lucky and a tough call to continue from flop
Great call. Loved Bart’s analysis as always. Also, Bart, how many Canadians do you know who are named “Pedro?” Canadian - really?!
Is it correct to call a raise with A9s against an UTG open in the LJ? Actually curious
0:15 I love this slow motion hat tip to how long this show has been running that is developing before our eyes. ❤
Call pre, call flop, fold or raise on the turn. If a third Spade comes, definitely raise, or bet if he checks. Adopted draw.
All the erudite, well thought out, statistically correct, poker theory’s in the world… Do not work very well at small blind, no limit holdem in a casino!… Most of your opponents are either idiots, drunk or just crazy! Based on that premise.... hero should have folded on flop or turn..... his calling proves my point! He’d be better off shooting dice with standard 6 bet strategy. Very good vid Bart.
Please see my comment below if you want a chance at winning Craps!
Craps 6 bet strategy: only make the following bets....
Pass
Don’t Pass
Come
Don’t Come
Place the 6
Place the 8
Pass, come and don’t point bets.... with max odds!
This gives the house the lowest vig in the entire casino! Like < 1% !!
YOU ARE WELCOME!!
Yeh I would try and play with the guy as much as possible that’s a solid overplay/ outplay leak.
Pedro for President
i think you make good points for why folding the flop is an option, however i feel like one of the most common leaks at the low stakes is players cbet too often and they don't 3bet enough, i think you're giving the V too much credit if you fold flop even if it does seem fairly obvious that his cbet range should be tighter the more the players that are in the hand
I’m sure you know this but Agua caliente is a $2000 2/5
I think the UTG having KQ of spades makes a lot of sense. Flush draw plus gut shot on the turn then missing on the river and jamming. Besides that it screams that he has an overpair. I dont think I make the call on the turn with middle pair. Wait for a better spot.
Their is nothing nitty about folding to this flop.
Caller sounds like a calling station and V sounds like a donk pushing buttons
Well technically UTG could have A5 spades
easy shove on the flop with A9...i mean top pair, get it in
lmfaoooooo wtffff
The one aspect that didn't come up but probably should be mentioned is turning the A9 into a bluff on the turn- in case you are behind the villain.
I mean if you are already leaning towards the notion that your opponent is trying to buy the pot, thats a good reason to call the flop and see the turn. But when faced with his turn bet, it should be a raise or fold situation. A raise on the turn looks very strong into a sizable bet and you can represent a set. The bluffs will be denied cards to suck out, and some overpairs may actually fold . It's better to play it that way than ti call 3 streets in the dark and hope for the best at showdown.
Im a year late to this but raising 98s or 109s is probably a better bluff than A9s
Lesson: Don't try to bluff a calling station.
fold pre see how this new player plays against the agro player , scheme and plot
schemes and plots are the same thing
i think is one easy decision after the flop FOLD! you can be behind with any set 6-8 suited flop the straight to many factors to make a good fold
Bart, several months ago you posted a video about the mechanics of setting up to play via apps like PokerBros. The video included info about a bitcoin exchange site you trust. Can you repost or let me know what exchange you use?
Coinbase is the best one, it’s extremely simple. They charge relatively small fees, so it’s more expensive than making your own bitcoin wallet - but infinitely easier.
They have an app in the AppStore
Binance.us (NOT Binance.com) has by far the lowest fees on any regulated US exchange. .1% flat buy or sell. If you already have a Coinbase account and don't want to wait for the verification use Coinbase Pro which is the same log-in and the fee is like .5% to buy and sell. Buying on regular coinbase it just throwing money away with the fees. Bart
CrushlivePoker thank you Bart I should’ve mentioned Pro, and I’ve never even heard of Binance so thanks for that as well
and in the next hand villian took hero to max value town
Yeah sure... when he gets a spot where he is ahead of Pedro. I like villains play I think the call by Pedro is player dependent you gotta have a decent read or know he is willing to turn pairs into bluffs but most importantlythe feel of the hand in that moment is key.
The hero we all need
Yea its a fold
Are there any poker books you would suggest?
Emanuel Doby gone with the wind
gus hansen
I get what you are saying about blanks, but this isn't a true blank. I actually think this is a terrible card for our H because the few semibluffs a bad villain could have played here A5s, or any other naked 5xs just got there on the river. The best thing we have going for us if we think V here is on pure air is that we have spades.
The saying though is 100% misused though, you are right.
I fold that flop bet and I'm sure villain was surprised to see a nine. I bet villain expected two pair on the river call
Had a feeling 88. If you give some thought to what hand inspires a large bet that isn't an over pair it is 88. The pot size bet on the turn was the clincher as the equity provided by the J gives the op the chance to put real pressure on the opponent. TBH though we have the advantage of knowing these calls are normally the caller winning in questionable spots + 'nitty' in the title also a bit of a giveaway. Interesting spot, as a rec player I think calling here with top pair on the flop is common (almost a float to see what the villian does) but I might give up on turn as it is a stack committing call essentially and I am not looking to call flops and turns all day to fold rivers. If the op is an aggressive player, maybe continue but sounds as though we have no info on him.
1. Suited, not many fold for a single raise.
2. If I call flop and turn I have made up my mind.
3. The villain played the hand well and in most cases I think he wins the hand. Specifically 88, it was me, I am using the equity on the turn to put pressure on my opponent but if I pick up calling station vibes, I might give up on river and wait for a better spot.
1:45 Bart laughs about folding pre being nitty. Love how he reinforces bad preflop play
Are you Canadian? Oh wait, you can't be cause your name is Pedro. Are there no Latin Americans north of the border?
" once again its really strange to take a overpair and bet all 3 streets here".......one of your worst comments ever Bart.
gbwiz Get that anorexic thin value baby 😁
There is no way that betting on the turn with an overpair for this sizing can be correct in this situation when next to act calls a 75% FLOP bet from UTG on a 957ss board with the blinds left to act behind him.
@@CrushlivePoker ithink OTF 4 way UTG with overpair is check calling instead of bet bet bet which makes 0 sense unless he has the 8 blocker
@@CrushlivePoker Would it be better for UTG to check or bet a different size with an overpair on turn? There are still lot of draws left in hero's range, wouldn't an overpair benefit from charging for the next card? Genuine question, still learning the game.
@@CrushlivePoker It's not correct except when it is correct :D I mean I hear you and agree that UTG overpair should probably not bet (if bet at all) so big in this spot on the turn given how the action went on the flop. But then again this is live poker. Like this hand shows maybe it's actually the best line to just exploit the field and bet bet bet for value with your eyes closed and laugh all the way to the bank.