Broken Brand New RV Water Heater! (Troubleshooting and Fix!)
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- Опубликовано: 18 фев 2023
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NOTE!
From a comment by @douglascounts5851 : "... if the internal wire itself was touching the case, the wire would have melted right there. The impression you saw on the wire insulation was simply caused by pressure on the wire near where it had been heated up. Also, you can see that the wire had hardened near the connector which also indicates that was near the source of heat. A few different things can cause this, one would be if the connector was loose as any arching within the connector can do this. Also, if the contact in the thermostat (which I think caused this) wasn't completely closing properly, the arching inside the thermostat will generate a great deal of heat. You see this a lot with contactors, thermostats, and other switch types that don't close completely or have degraded/burnt contact points."
My Thoughts: This is definitely a possibility. But, looking back at the footage of the cut in the wire, it sure looks like there's charred conductor and melted insulation, with a clear hole all the way through the insulation (at 4:24 in 4K, you can see it). Perhaps the thermostat was weak and a short pushed it over the edge... Or maybe a bad thermostat caused the wire to get hot enough to melt where it was against the case, causing it to melt some then short. No way to know 100%.
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You may have and I missed it.
Thanks so much for this video. I had the same problems that you did and found that I had a burnt wire just like yours. Ordered new thermostat and the water heater will be back and running in no time. Thanks again!!!
I absolutely love your videos. I live on my own and have saved myself thousands of dollars by watching your videos and fixing and upgrading my rv. Love doing it myself and learning new things.
Chad, as an electrician I seen that exact same problem countless times and in fact I had the same issue with my shop heater last week. The problem is not a shorted wire because a short would have caused the breaker to trip. The problem started with a bad female spade connector at the thermostat that resulted in a high resistance connection that melted the thermostat and wiring insulation which then allowed the wire where it contacted the water heater cover to melt into the wiring hot insulation. What I would be concerned about is that juggle of wire in the concealed space you show, it looks to me like a fire waiting to happen.
As Timaz stated. I also worked in aerospace manufacturing for over 40+ years Tooling. Things happen. However those kind of things should never happen. That could of started a fire. That is something no one wants in an RV. There needs to be better quality control and standardization in the RV industry. Especially in the electrical & propane systems of an RV. Very good video.
I should have mentioned the breaker did trip.
The water heater was well designed. The breaker tripped, the damage was contained and no fire started. Sheesh.
That additional protection of 2 layers of heat shrink was a good idea. Why don't manufacturers know of this problem and add a hard protective shield at this point as you did. This is by far, not the first water heater that Suburban has manufactured. I love your "fix it" videos and your approaches that you take. They are always very methodical.
Thank you,
Don
We thank you for all the trouble shooting you do and share with us
I like the trouble shoot on the suburban, last spring I put the aqua go comfort tankless in, “they did” solely propane, besides control panel. Oh 1977 to 1981 uss kittyhawk, A division engineering. Ex navy. As yourself. 👌
Nice job! As a 33 year electro-mechanical troubleshooter in industrial facilities I was impressed with your thought process 👍👍👍
Awesome, you guys do so much for the RV industry. You very respectfully hold the manufacturers responsible for design errors.
First off nice video. Second off I live next to Elkhart and know how these units are put together. I own a camper myself. For the premium Grand Design campers are they need to majorly step up there wiring game. That is a rats nest to put it politely. You pay way too much money to have to search through that crap. Keep up the great work.
As usual, great work. Starting at each end, then splitting the circuit in half is correct. Thanks for sharing this tip and procedure.
I had the same problem replaced the connector and the thermostat and our water heater also has a on off switch right there that was also bad replaced that switch and all was good. I don’t have the training Chad has but thanks for you tube I was able to fix it my self. We’ve been full time since 2019 I’ve learned to fix what i😢can myself
Good video and information.
Our suburban water heater blew out down the seam, we had about 400 miles on our 5th wheel. Reached out to dealer and suburban replaced the water heater. It was just an inconvenience
If you own a rv you need to no how to fix and or diagnose the problem.
Thanks again for the videos.
Hey Chad, good job fixing your water heater.
I don’t believe your water heater shorted out on the sharp metal edge. By the looks of things, the wire was hot, the insulation was soft and melted a crease into the edge of the wire where the metal was pressing against it. Had this continued you in fact would’ve had a short which would’ve blown a fuse or a breaker which did not happen. What appears to have happened is your spade connector on your thermostat got incredibly hot. This caused the big melted blob on the end. How this happens is a loose connection which causes arcing on the connector which builds up heat just like when you weld two pieces of metal together. The intense heat built up every time you use the electric part of your water heater until the connector failed. The cause more than likely is the connector was not crimped on the wire or poorly crimped, or the spade connector was loosely attached to the thermostat. The reason the breaker did not blow is because there was not a dead short and as long as the connection made contact there was resistance in the circuit. If you could peel the burnt insulation off of the metal connector you would probably find signs of arcing somewhere. Hope this information helps.
I would tend to agree and thought the same thing. Either way though great example of troubleshooting steps and following through the circuit from one device to the next. Also never hurts to move some sharp metal out of the way while you’re in there.
Quite possible and even likely... I added a note to the description and blog post.
Our board was dead on the first trip, right after picking up our unit. We picked up on a Saturday, Sunday we camped. Hot water on gas none on electric. Next weekend dinosaur board went in and everything else is history.
Don't really think it rubbed, causing a short. If it shorted to the casing, it would have left a burn or arch marking and tripping the breaker.
Having seen this a thousand times over my career, this a loose fitting spade connector which will heat to the point of burning in half or generating enough heat to kill that limit switch. The mark on the wire you saw is where when the insulation was hot and soft, the edge left an impression. The wire against this metal edge would have probably down the road caused a problem being an RV that travels as much as you do.
Regardless, good catch and repair.
That makes sense.
Great job Chad! From a fellow NRVTA grad!
Great job explaining things as usual Chad 👍🏻
One of my favorites of your videos is the presentation and quality. Many people post videos about good topics and have good tips but the production is poor. The other as a HVAC lifer is the steps that show a good troubleshooter. Thanks again.
I had this exact same issue with my Suburban water heater, except both the top and bottom connections were burned and melted. That's a big wake up call. Thank you for taking the time to make and share this video.
Your a great detective! Good job Chad. 👏👏👏👏
I just went out and checked my 2022 397THR and it looked just like yours. The wire sheathing is not wore through yet but very close. Thanks for all of your great posts
Excellent video, Chad! Enjoy the technical stuff you post.
Suburban sounds like a company that cares, would not be surprised to see a couple spare thermostats in the mail when you get home! Safe travels!
I disagree. Suburban reacted to manage damage control, quite possibly because of the customer's media presence. If they really cared, this serious risk of fire would not have occured. Nor would they make their steel, glass lined tanks so poorly they require replacement in less than 6 years time. I have had many RVs with Atwood water heaters and they just don't fail. Suburban, never had one survive more than 5 years. Experience(s) are the true test if a company cares.
Oh my gosh, what amazing timing!! Ours just went out this week & we figured out it was this exact problem just last night! Thank you soooo much for this video!
Hey Chad, good job. Basic troubleshooting saved the day.
I'm a retired aircraft mechanic of nearly fifty years. As you described and clearly showed in video, this, to me, wasn't really a manufacturing issue, as much the person that put the unit together. An experienced technician should have caught that issue as a potential problem area. That is the difference between a technician doing a job and someone just working a 9 to 5 job.
Hopefully, the manufacturer will look at this, make the required changes and problems gone. Then they just need to contact existing customers and advise of issues / repair.
Great video, nice breakdown of troubleshooting. At least you had gas heat.
God bless ya'll and have a blessed day.
Ya'll stay safe and have great travels. Look forward to seeing some great videos.
Based on the video, its was a poor design for low wage workers.
@@Garth2011 How do you know how much they are paid ? Do you know any of them ?
@@TonyBenton0728 Line workers? Lots less than the "technician" Brian discusses. The point was, if the engineering is for mass production, then it should be tuned to satisfy the production workers vs. some tech working away in the corner of the building with his personal workbench and engineering skills to apply to assembly lines.
Seriously, they aren't being paid to problem solve. They sure aren't paid enough to deal with inferior designs...they do just what they are required to do.
@@Garth2011 JD with BTBRV just released a video about the Riverstone 42 fskg we have . He didn’t do as long of a video as he has before on the outside and more of the inside.I believe you will be impressed . I am definitely not a fan of Grand Design and Chad and these other RUclipsrs pushing Grand Design is mind boggling because you will hear JD and the Riverstone rep. saw why there are so many issues with these mass production RV’s.
@@TonyBenton0728 Keep an open mind. The problem was with the heater. Not the rv manufacturers product. Maybe a poor choice on their part. Still not their product. Poor quality is a way of life these days. Also, for all we know, the same model heater made today may have a fix. I doubt it.
As I worked in aerospace manufacturing for over 40 years, you would think that the manufacturers would take a little bit more pride in what they make as thousands of these heaters and do it correctly. That could have been a fire.
Anything RV is complete crap from the get go. Been that way for decades. Yes, Suburban should have simply used a neoprene grommet without rolling those edges or they should have simply made the cutout larger so the wires attached to the high limit and low limit switches had room or better yet, a sleeve or loom to protect those wires. The terminal on the wire lead was well heated so the melted area along the insulation of that wire might not have been the initial point of failure. Likely the connection was not good and the crimped terminal got hot or the lug on that limit switch was defective.
@@Garth2011 They really are all complete trash. They are so cheap I dont know how they literally aren't falling apart on the highway.
Do you really think that a short was the cause of the connector failing given that the connector was no longer a part of the circuit? Or would you say that the installation became pliable and melted around the cable causing the short due to a poor connection and high resistance on the connector??? 40 years is a long time to not know current takes the shortest path of least resistance
40 years in aerospace and you don't see that the issue was a high resistance contact at the connector? It was not a short circuit farther up the wire.
Thanks again for the invite. That EZPZ job you just did might only take me week or so. But I still tinker along and get things done. Congrats on another job well done.
Great video, with one exception. I did not see any reference to shutting the 120 power off before you worked on the system. Yes, I know that you put in a comment at the start of the video, that it is just showing how YOU fixed the problem.
Another great informative video. Thanks Chad.
Great video as always. Glad it was a easy fix for you.
Excellent video. Thanks for sharing. I learned quite a bit.
Loved your video, I did have this happen to me last year, the same issue happened. All fixed and up and running, y’all just gave me more info on the back side of the unit to take a closer view.. Thanks 😊👍
I had a very similar issue with my water heater when it was about a year old. Great video. Keep up the good work!
Great video Chad, thanks.
Chad thank you for the informative how to video. I believe this is something that could happen even with a brick and stick water heater. Glad it didn't cause to much damage to your rig.
Great information. Thanks!
Thanks Chad! Great video as always absolutely love the new rig.
Great job explaining the problem and the cure.
Thank you for the video! It helped me find that I have a bad thermo couple, I will be ordering parts and fixing this problem.
THANKS FOR THE LESSON. I LEARN SOMETHING EVERYTIME YOU SHARE
I had the 120v side of my Rv water heater stop working too-it was simple corrosion on the connectors-I sanded the connector -slide the wire back on to it-and bam it worked. I actually had garage door remote stop working too. It ended up being a little arcing where the the CR2032 round little batter touches the remote. Their was a little arcing. I sanded that , put the battery back in and the remote worked. Troubleshooting with a meter is a good skill to learn.
Very informative my friend. Thank you!
Yet another very informative and instructional video Chad, and thank you Tara for putting it all together. Chad, I know why you say what you say about doing the work yourself, liability issues, but I feel like every single grown man in America “should be” very able and willing to do this level of diag and repair. Certainly every full timer…. It’s just not that difficult and with some patience, RUclips and maybe a phone call or two we should all be able to do a repair similar to this one. You do make it look easy though, and for that we love you. Blessings and safe travels to you both!
Great video, I have the same water heater in my 2015 Crossroads and had this exact issue last summer. I do believe it is a design flaw with the aluminum skin and the way it is bent behind the thermostats. I have over 20K miles on the trailer when this happened, but my short also took out the on/off power switch located directly below. Great tip on the heat shrink, as I used multiple layers of electrical tape and bent the inside lip for extra insurance, so far so good.
I like all your videos, but, this one was great. Showed how simple it is to troubleshoot such a common problem.
Good job!!!🎉
Nice job good explanation
Thank you Sr. Great video !
Good troubleshooting technique!
Watched your video today, then checked our water heater, had the same issue. Wires had indentations. Fixed. Our RV was built in Mar 2022. Long time subscriber.
I checked mine. Same exact situation. Two wires had a definite indentation where they were rubbing. They hadn’t shorted out yet but certainly would eventually. Thanks for posting this.
Great video since my electric water heater checked out on us last weekend. Having watched this video already, I started the diagnosis and I have power at the element, therefore I have to assume my element is shot. The element appears to be pretty easy to replace. Wish I had the exact part number. Love your videos as you have taught me so much.
GREAT Video!!!!! Thank you!!
Great job, great advice, on our water heater it was the relay. Keep up the good work.
Great information.
Thanks for the videos.
Good find Chad...👍👍
Thanks Chad, found we had the same issue on our brand new 397THS-R. I did as you did and bent the metal so it should not short out anytime in our future. Thanks for the warning.
Good video. Thanks!
Wow! You would think that suburban would have seen this before it became a problem! At least they seem to be taking it seriously and hopefully will put out a memo to everyone to check this.
Very concise Chad. I have the same heater, may pull the panel to take a look for some rubbing.
Very good information to have, Chad. I've got an older Suburban in my DP, and I think one of the pre-checks this spring will be to take the cover off and look at the area you had issues with - just for my own piece of mind!
Great video Chad!👍🏻👍🏻 All good information. Now I need to go check our wiring on our Suburban.
Thanks for your video 😊
Trouble shooter extraordinaire! My hubs has done pretty well applying his skills in the technology field but even he will admit Chad's above his pay grade. Hope 2c you both in the next one! 🌷
That is a great video, I had that happen to us a couple years ago, I ended doing the same thing as you did.
As you say, Chad, you have the expertise to go do this. So many don’t. Glad to hear Suburban fessed up!
Good information thank you
Great video Chad - that was easy right!!
Great video
Nice job, Chad... I hope the manufacturer will stand behind your repair..
Thanks, I will look at mine, This past Aug I purchased a 2023 Grand Design Imagine XLS 23LDE. However I have a Furion water heater.
Great video. With a little know how you saved yourself a lot of time and money. Too many people yell "junk" and dog cuss the manufacturers when in reality it was a pretty fix. I am glad you passed your input back to Suburban.
Ours just smoked too, lovely!
Good video Chad, we'll explained. Thanks.
Great video and info.😊
Hey Chad thanks for this video! I just purchased and installed new water heater in my 2014 Redwood 36RL. After watching this video I went and checked the wiring on my new water heater and found the same type of issue but the wiring from the thermostat to the element was pushed against the tank by the cover over the thermostats so I trimmed the cover to allow space between the cover and the tank. I also bent the stamp metal to allow room there, too.
Nice work!
Good job
Very informative……thank you.👍🇺🇸
Great informative video Chad. I really appreciate your channel and will be checking our water heater.
Well done Chad. NRVTA for the win. But, why didn't you make Grand Design mail you those two t-stats? Your new rig is under warranty.
For $16, it's just not worth timing the shipping and all that... Simple amazon click click done.. 😊
Good info. I think I'll have a look at mine just to be sure there isn't any rubbing going on. Beyond that I would take it to a professional. Thanks again
Even knowing it would be nothing like ours (on-demand all-gas Truma), I decided to watch this video, see the process. Thanks for another well-done video, with a great explanation of the problem and solution. I've seen a few questions about water heaters recently in one or another of the Facebook RVing groups I'm in. I'll check through, see if any might be relevant to this, and if so, link to this video for them. A few campgrounds ago, we had some very nice neighbors who couldn't get the gas portion of their water heater to work, and we regrettably had no real advice. It would be great if there were a single source to go to, for highly-organized sets of videos on all things RV-maintenance. I'm sure Tara has plenty of time to set something like that up!
WOW already, sorry to hear that news.
Outstanding, I am like you.. this happened to us in OBX and I orderd 2 of each.... 2 in the water heater and 2 in my toll box..😎
Great video!
Great video. I would not expect that on a new rig.
I've enjoyed all your videos. I have taken the NRVTA home coarse and also plan on hopefully taking the coarse in Athens
LOL, I live in Athens and drive by that place everyday. Until Chad went to school there, I had no idea what it was!
My '10 Allegro Bus recently had an almost identical issue with the electric side of the water heater. The L-shaped lug at the T-stat termination was also burned off and had lost contact. The wire was damaged, but not bare, a couple inches up the wire. I felt it necessary to replace the entire length of the wire as well as going up one wire size (sorry, don't remember the sizes now) and replacing the L lug with the exact replacement. I didn't care for the straight-on plug as it caused a sharp bend at the termination. YMMV...
Troubleshooting F-4s during pre-launch at night on a pitching deck was great preparation for solving problems later in life. Fly Navy !
Had to think what brand of water heater I had last, believe it was Atwood. Ran electric for 10 years, no trouble. The panel “on” pilot light burnt out, but that was not Atwood. (RV switch inside trailer). When first fired on propane, took the longest time to purge the air out of the piping. (Trailer dealer did not prep. the propane it seems). Fine starts after that.
Another great video Chad, thank you for sharing. If you ever decide to teach classes let me know. I’ll sign up
I had a very similar issue, just with the wire going from the thermostat to the heating element. I first thought the metal flange was the issue and like you took pliers and bent it flat. However, the wire was rubbed bare again. What I found was the cover flange was rubbing the wire bare so I removed a section of the flange to stop pushing on the wire. I haven't had an issue with this since.
Thank you, Chad you may have saved us from a fire! Long story short, smelled something burning when plugging into shore power. Isolated it to somewhere near the wet bay and then only when the electric element for the water heater was turned on. After watching your video, pulled off the high temp switch cover to find a burnt terminal and chafed wire from the metal opening. I know you are prior Navy and I'm retired Navy......so thanks, SHIPMATE! Hope to see you on the road so can buy you a beer! (@AdventurousRetirees)
I looked it up…A. O. Smith Water Products Company is headquartered in Ashland City, Tennessee, home of the world's largest water heater factory. The A. O. Smith network includes five manufacturing facilities in North America, plus plants in Nanjing, China and Veldhoven, The Netherlands. My “guess” they are made in China.
Wow, thanks Chad for showing this! This should be on every rv inspector's checklist, or maybe it is?. Ours did not take that cover off and inspect it .I am sure of it, I was there. I am going to. ... Today! This should be a real concern for Suburban and the rv manufacturers quality control (or lack there of)! We have also been seeing some reports (pics) of suburban elite series stoves led lighting shorting out on some fb groups we follow. Not good.
Good for you for contacting Suburban - nothing changes if nothing changes right!
OMG, you just saved my ass with this video. I checked my 1-year-old Suburban water heater (also with the dual electric) and a wire was being melted by simply resting on one of the two "fins" of the thermostats itself (rather than being nicked by the sheet metal). Apparently not just the inside of the thermostat is hot, but also the outside of the thermostat and it is hot enough to melt the sheathing on any of the wires. Alert! Everybody open up your water heater and verify that none of the hot thermostat components are melting your wires.