Bottom Bracket installation for best performance and durability
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- The Compounds, Activators, Greases, and Tools for a text book perfect Press Fit Bottom Bracket installation. Applies to BB86/92, BB30, PF30, BB386evo, DUB and GXP.
Campagnolo Installation Instructions:
www.campagnolo...
SRAM Frame Fit Specifications
www.sram.com/g...
SRAM BB installation Instructions
docs.sram.com/...
Shimano Installation Instructions
Page 151
si.shimano.com...
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It’s a sad state of affairs when manufacturers who charge thousands for carbon frames can’t make a round hole with a 41mm diameter.
Well - most “OEM’s” aren’t actually making their own frames. It’s been outsourced and my guess is that the QC aspect might be “assumed”.
@@petersouthernboy6327 Doesn’t matter. When your brand name is on the product you are responsible for the quality of that product even when you subcontract any part of the manufacturing process.
@@petersouthernboy6327 Yeah but you should check it. Not sell it..
@@clp91009 Oh, I agree with your “sad state of affairs” comment 110%. There are *far too many bike brands* because the access to frame molding in Asia is easy and not terribly expensive. And enthusiasts tend to be piss poor manufacturers but perhaps that’s a different discussion
That's what we called "bad money drives out good", for example Giant produced almost perfect frames before 2021, but recent years their QC is basically SH*T.
This channel is a treasure.
Thank you. Spread the word.
Just the best technically explained bottom bracket video I have ever seen
thank you... with so many brands and different standars, sometimes working at the workshop is kind of guerrilla warfare... thank you for clarifying this concepts...
There are no excuses for getting BB bores wrong. Lots of reasons though. The first one is production methods, where carbon layups are cured in a haphazard manner.
The second is finishing, where a precision line boring machine isn’t used after curing and stabilization… the bores are cured around some kind of casting dowel that is simply knocked out. Job done. LOL.
The third is priming and painting… high mass primers are used to hide rough tubes etc. These get into BB bores, along with base and clear coats.
The selling point is carbon. People think that what follows is aerospace manufacturing. It isn’t, but the prices come damned close.
The only way to beat the system is to buy a frame based on a detailed spec sheet that shows dimensions and tolerances. Before accepting the product, go over it with a magnifying glass, fibre optic camera, and bore gauges. If it doesn’t meet spec, refuse to accept it.
Great explanation, thanks Paul. My experience over the last 15-20 years has been that I will only buy a frame now that has a bsa BB. Old school screw thread is simply the best ✌️
Be open to T47
I would prefer T-47 for DUB and 30mm spindles. BB386EVO is great but it never got enough widespread traction.
Sadly that alone would not guarantee that the openings are aligned, concentric, round, and properly faced. Especially if it's a metal shell bonded to a carbon frame. Probably a metal frame is more likely to have a good threaded BB if it has been machined in a single pass. For CF frames i think that pressfit works better.
@@c4p3fi3rr Some frame got one piece metal thread part, so it will naturally aligned.
Hey Paul. Your channel is gold. The technical details are next level.
Thank you for spreading your knowledge!
Glad you enjoy it!
Fantastic Paul - chapeau! What’s not to like with all those lovely tools - proper engineering!
Masterclass thanks Paul helps bring all their preceding practical demos together. Always a nugget of knowledge without fail. As a sidebar worth mentioning such compounds occasionally useful on metal bike head tubes where necessary provided used within the gap tolerances of the individual compound. Previous vid of yours gave inspiration and got me out of trouble. Cheers 😃👍👍👍
going for perfection every time. love it
Various RUclipsrs, as well as Cannondale Australia, recommend that Japanese silicone grease thing. The European equivalent is liqui moli 3312, it's German. My BB86 aluminium BB started creaking last week. I slathered that stuff everywhere. No more creaks, after 2 rides, 1 in z2, 1 w vo2max intervals, uphill and flat. I ordered a new BB but might wait to see how long this survives without creaking again. The BB is 5200km old, including mountains and rain, but mostly dry and flat.
Ace vid, real world, loads of perfect how to use our tools on here but not many are brave enough to put up the not so perfect ones, I look forward to seeing the not straight forward ones
Thanks for making these , I’d imagine they are very time consuming.
Wow that was a ton of useful information, thanks a lot!
Best bike maintenance channel by far. Cheers 🍻
Wow, thanks! 🙏
What a great and informative video. For years now, for my own personal sanity I've just been using token ninja thread together bottom brackets with Loctite retaining compound and primer on my bikes. I don't know how else to do it reliably with just a few tools, even if it's not optimal.
Very happy to have seen a previous video of yours that went over the Shimano BB86 letting me know to use nothing when fitting the bb. I put it into my new frame (Winspace SLC 2.0) and it’s working great!
Excellent, well explained video 👏
*The only valid lubricant is 99% isopropyl alcohol on dry fit applications, if you really have to. Don't listen to me I'm not that type of engineer
Oh. Nice idea.
This advice will good for when working on my BB30 cannondale cx9 frame that I use for singlespeed CX now.
Thanks
Thank you. This is so kind 🙏
@@Mapdec really appreciate the call the other day!
Thanks Paul!
🙏
Interesting
I just replaced a gusset BB (press fit) for a sram Eagle crank on a trek remedy and there wasn't any advice in the BB pack😢, fortunately Trek uk advised loctite primer SF770 and loctite 641 retaining compound
Incidentally this is advised for press fit carbon and aluminium shells
The last carbon remedy was the shimano BB 😮🤔 who'd a thunk it.
Quality video again 👌 👏 btw
Cheers 🍻 Ste
Another great timely vid dude awesome content 😊 Pete 🚴🏻😊👍
Thanks 👍
Fantastic video and if I had this type of bike I'd go to Mapdec.
I'll stick with threaded BSA.
If I am reading this right, if a frame manufacturer shoots to make a BB86 to work with shimano or sram they should have it sized at 41 mm going no lower than 40.95 or higher than 41.07. However Campy is asking for even smaller hole, 40.97 or as small as 40.94 mm. That doesn’t seem to be fair to a frame mfg finding a nominal that works with 3 different ranges? What may be great for one could in fact be too large for another? Why aren’t all BB’s held to same range of tolerance? This could be so much better for all involved.
Yep. Sometime. Your frame could be right the intended BB, but not right for your sexy ceramic speed upgrade.
@jerseybarrier64 “…..Why aren’t all BB’s held to the same range tolerance ?” That’s the 64 K $ question and something that’s on bike mechanics’ Christmas lists every year 😂 (…….to no avail 😭)
Excellent description😊
I build all my bikes myself, it's my hobby. But still cannot justify spending more than 1000 EUR on tools to ensure the bottom bracket/brake mounts are flush and aligned properly. This should be the manufacturers' job. Nowadays even an aluminium frameset costs north of 1500 EUR and for that much I would be expecting that at least all the interfaces with other components are built to spec. Apparently this is too much to ask. I also don't see many bike shops employing underpaid students bothering with checking that the frame is built to spec. They probably just want it out of the door ASAP. Hell, a few days ago i was working on a friend's BMC, and as soon as i pulled out the crank, the BB cup came along... These guys have no shame... From the manufacturing, to the QA, to whoever assembled the bike, nobody bothered addressing something this serious. These are the consequences of not having industry standards, nor accountability.
It’s long been the role of a dealer to sort final QC. Very few take this seriously these days.
I agree this should be the frame manufacturers job as part of QC
That's why team ag2r got much better result this year haha.
Change of material to CF has thrown up some basic manufacturing issues ……..none insurmountable if the will is there ……but that’s frequently lacking at the manufacturing end so it’s easy for brands to push it onto the final delivery point….. either the customer or more often the LBS. Far simpler in previous times, check frame alignment, chase the threads and invariably happy days. Agree 💯 absence of better quality supported by meaningful QC is simply shameful today. Plenty of potential business for any manufacturer prepared to deliver value and proper quality. Also any decent workshop will adhere to professional standards, share knowledge and work in conjunction with customers. Also provide a written record of the work undertaken and return key parts. The issue is finding a good one especially if you have little or no mechanical knowledge………….and that’s where this Chanel helps out 👍
Ive just had a new BB fitted thats press fit and its creaking again in less than 10miles!
It looks like grease has been used during assembly.
Thanks very much Paul...
explained very well, thank you
If you use loctite 638 you will have a right game taking it apart again. I know I've been using at work for 40odd years.
Depends on the size of the gap.
Eso explica lo que aue ningún mecánico pudo mi Madone 2018 bb96 todos los pedaliers se oxidan con facilidad y crujen
Enhorabuena, sus videos son de gran interés y muy instructivos.
I email Scott Sports 5 years ago asking what they recommend for a Shimano pf bb86 in my carbon Foil.
They recommended a light smear of "bike specific grease" just to help keep it water tight. I popped that one out this year after 5 years, and it popped out very easily while being nice and secure the whole time. I did the same light smear on the new one going in and it fit just perfectly once again.
Going in dry might be ok, but I feel like removing it several years later could be more difficult.
I doubt there was any grease present by then. This will all depend in the bore, its sealing and the type of grease you used.
Press fit is a technology from the 1970s and 1980s. Maybe we'll go back to wedge-mounted cranks!?!?😁
11:08 Guys, always remember to keep working that hole until you're happy!
If you're really stuck you know you can just use spray foam...
Video it and send to Just Rolled In.
Cannondale keeping their creakingdale reputation in good check.
A pure gues is that the shimano bbs are made from something like POM
Decision tree summary?
Just buy bikes with a threaded BB.
are Hambini BB instructions hand-written in red pen by a 5 year-old?
Some say
Too funny!
Depends if the pen is working
have you used the Park Tools primer and retaining compound?
Yeah. I don’t like that they don’t advertise the full data sheet, what cure time and gap fill is. I asked Truman on a podcast once and they were pretty unclear.
@@Mapdec disappointing. I bought some to use on my last build but ran into the same sort of vagueness so went with the lbs recommendation. Unsure if it was any good but the campy cups haven't given me grief yet
Great content as always. Unrelated to this video, but do you know when the Time Scylon refresh is happening?
Yes. 👍
@@Mapdec I don’t suppose you’re at liberty to say? 😀 they told me May 2024 some time ago but I have been eagerly awaiting since then
@@richinoya_ 🤐
Best Cannondale bracket? For a synapse carbon frame from 2019 running the new 105 mechanical 12 speed. 😊
Is it BB30a or PF30a ?
Bb30a thanks
@@jonathanbishop78 just a 6806 bearing in your price range. Pick a stainless one with lip seals unless you want micro watts friction saving.
Paul what bb would you recommend for my look 765 optimum. The token bb left bearing is making a knocking noise when peddling.
Token make good stuff. Banging doesn’t sound good, sounds like something has been fitted poorly.
When you're cutting an oval sized BB, how do you set the cutting tool so it's aligned correctly to the frame? And what happens if both sides of the BB are oval shaped but misaligned?
We made vids on this. The wonky Wiellir. Get one side sorted, hand sand the other to get best alignment possible. Gap fill the space. Or fit a one piece BB if really bad.
I have done about 10000K on my bike (BB86 - with Ultegra Di2 12spd) and I have not had any creaks or anything and whenever I take the chain off (each time I re-wax), I check the rotation of the cranks is still smooth. All is good. I don't pressure wash, only by hand. Do I still need to have my BB removed and serviced. I do all my other things myself, but don't have tools for that. Just worried I might make a problem where there isn't one if I send it for a full service and they remove the BB and then it is not right.
Sounds like you have a perfect frame with a perfectly aligned and fitted BB. Keep it in there and keep it clean. Well done! 👍
@@Mapdec thanks for the reply, much appreciated.
on BB30 carbon which product to use for hanbini bb? Loctite is safe?
Do you mean retaining compound? Follow the instructions on his site.
Did you go to the bike show?
I went to Bespoked. Not Eurobike.
Im almost ashamed to ask. But lets say "my friend" has installed a shimano BB in a carbon frame, and used retaining compound. What to do when the customer comes back for a new BB?
Depends how tight it was. If it was already really tight. We remove it with the utmost of caution using heat and a puller. Don’t just whack it with a hammer.
I have 2021 Giant TCR manual Ultegra press fit but its started squeeking in the last few months. I've been told it needs copper greaseing - is this correct if its going to eat the plastic? cheers
Show that bike shop this video. Copper slip is a corrosion prevention grease. Plastic and carbon fibre don’t corrode or react with each other.
i think Shimano is a ABS plastic ?
You mentioned concentricity. How are you measuring concentricity?
With our own tool. Or a set of parallels.
@@Mapdec looking forward to seeing a video where you have a concentricity issue and how you go about measuring and remedy.
@@DDai-qd8uk we did a few already. Look for the video called Wonky Wieller.
@@Mapdec i hoep tahts' nto akchulleh teh tittle 😂
What about the underworld bike industry secret, gets nicknamed 'secret sauce', it's often white, technically a car industry product, cures press-fit bb creaks everytime without fail , and bb will remove no problem next time.
Sounds sus.
Loctite 660? I'm lost
Afaik, liqui moli 3312. Worked wonders on my BB. It's used on sunroofs of cars, in particular. Silicone grease essentially. White tube. Whitish grease.
Unfortunately its becoming more and more relevant to the issues with BB today. Mapdec explains in term's we can all understand.
Move that apostrophe from 'term's' to 'its'
02:23 What about BB86 on aluminium frames?
What specifically about it?
@Mapdec Sorry for not being specific. I meant to ask if dry installation applies to aluminium frames too?
@@kon1402 with a plastic bearing housing?
@@Mapdec Yes. It's BB71-41 with cups made from fibre reinforced polymer material.
@@kon1402 yep. If the frame bore is correct press it in dry.
All of the loctite compounds take heat to release and using them is risky
In my job of repairing pharmaceutical mixers we use Red to retain large bearings in aluminum or other metal housings and yo will cause all kinds of problems trying to remove one cold as housing materials will also be removed
This is not thread retainer compound...
too bad you are so far away. I called few local shops and they dont have tool for 'fixing" pressfit frames.
I know. It’s so shameful on the industry.
“The frame is the correct size” well that’s the whole problem for press fit isn’t it?
Insane amount of grief for little to no benefit. threaded BB are perfect.
Let's be honest press fit is crap. I will not buy an expensive frame and tolerate a lousy BB. No threads no buy. Period over and out. Imagine buying a frame for 4000 and hoping your BB will be properly machined. All my frames have threaded BB and i sleep and ride with a smile. Come on folks send a message and stop buying and tolerating lousy products. Send a message to manufacturers.
Oh. You haven’t seen the latest vids with the specalized threads?
Spot on. "Innovative" BB designs terrify me. And for good reason.
I have a alloy Cannodale bike with BB30A. After just six months, the bearing are clicking like crazy.
Fortunately my local bike shop has just replaced them under warranty. I'll see how long they last.
If they start clicking again after a few months, I'll have to buy some high quality bearing in bulk, get a bearing press, and get comfortable pulling and replacing them.
I'd consider installing a Hambini unit and running a Shimano chain set, but I'd hate to lose the love Hollowgram cranks.
Cheers
20 years ago this problem didn't exist with bbs.
20 years ago bikes had other problems.
20 years ago, they were bonding carbon to aluminum and it was a very sketchy process at that time.
Not entirely sure I agree, there was no such thing as pressfit and threads was the way to go...but not all frames were perfect at that time and rework was commonly needed
@@petersouthernboy6327 yes. Very true !